View Full Version : August '07 Mums2B #3
shirls84
24-01-2007, 15:09
ok thanks for filling me in!!
It sounds like you will get a def result from FMU then. Again I hope it all works out for you
Thanks everyone. There are alot of soft markers that point to DS which alot of sonographers are not trained for. And example is the missing nasal bone, heart and bowel defects. There are about 30 things. So the specialists will be able to look closer at bubs than anyone else.
The good thing is that I will know 100% with them so that will give me peace of mind if I get the all clear. Not 85% for the standard u/s. I think Lunar here had an NT scan and they never picked up her daughters DS.
mothertobein2007
24-01-2007, 15:29
im due on the 7th august and getting exicted after the morning sickness fadeds each day. well its not letting up today soo sick and too hot in this heat
OverTheMoon
24-01-2007, 15:30
Welcome cinta!
Sandy, hope you get some good news from the further tests. :hugs: to you.
MW appt went well - nothing exciting, bp, weight, urine check. Boring. Have my 12 week scan on the 7th Feb. when i will be 12 w 5 days. i.e. nearly end of first trimester!
Anywho, our picnic was lovely, although the markets near where we got married weren't open, and we planned on getting fish and chips, so we went to kings park instead, which was probably more lovely - best view ever and so quiet!
:hugs: to all.
niesl_bug
24-01-2007, 15:32
Oh Sandy love I am so, so sorry. Obviously you will chat to DH and Ob and decide what is best for you.
There was a thread on here not long ago about a lady who decided to terminate because she was at high risk of d/s - i will try and find it for you. I totally agree with you and you will find nothing but support here.
Please, please let us know when you have some more news and remember that we are all here for you.
Sending you lots of love, strength, support and positive energy :hugs:
Tan-mumof3
24-01-2007, 16:46
:wave: Cinta and welcome to our thread. Im having my 12 week nuchal scan on 8th feb. Haven't thought of any names yet dh refuses to talk about names yet.
Have you thought of any yet?
:wave: mothertobein2007, hope you enjoy it here.
Sandy as Tara said it is totally your decision and we are not here to judge your decision or enter into a debate about it we just want to support you in whichever way we can. :fingerscrossed: for you that further testing turns out to be ok and not ds for you.
Over the moon glad your appointment went well and you had a lovely picnic with your dh.
Oh Sandy - I'm so sorry. But remember that high risk is just a term they use to decide whether to recommend an amnio or not. It makes it sound like its highly likely that there is a problem, when in fact its still highly likely that there isn't. I think that's exactly what I'm fearing with my test tomorrow. As soon as you hear 'high risk' you automatically assume the worst, but the probability of everything being OK is still heavily in your favour. Like you, I would need to know, as it would make a difference for me.
Deb - I can't believe you have to wait a week for your results. I just assumed I'd get them straight away with my scan tomorrow?
What is it with this pregnancy thing - as soon as you get over one hurdle, there's always another excruciating wait for something else.
Crazy Monkey
24-01-2007, 20:41
I'm going to have to say goodbye to the August 2007 Mums2B thread... I lost my little angel yesterday...
I had a slight tinge of pink when I wiped on Monday night and woke up on Tuesday with period pain and slight cramping, but there was no blood... Later in the afternoon, there was a bit of blood so I rang my OB... He told me to go and get an ultrasound straight away because it didn't sound like it would be good news...
Got to the hospital for the ultrasound and as soon as the sonographer started the ultrasound I knew there was something wrong... I had whats called 'Blighted Ovum'... There was a sack but no baby...
A large empty sac on the scan is a sign of a 'blighted ovum', where conception occurred and the fertilised egg implanted in your womb but the baby did not develop.
My OB then booked me in for a D&C at 5pm and I was home by 11:30pm...
I am doing pretty well... Phyiscally I am fine, no pain, and emotionally I am doing better than I thought I would be... I think having the D&C straight away really helped because last night I was already feeling a lot better...
I just want to wish everyone a fantastic and sticky pregnancy.. Sorry there are no personals...
I'll be checking in on all of you from time to time...
OverTheMoon
24-01-2007, 21:36
Crazy Monkey i am sooo sooo sorry for your loss and what you are going through. :hugs:
I really don't know what to say other than we are all here for you if you need to talk.
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: (i couldn't put any more hugs in, sorry).
Tan-mumof3
24-01-2007, 22:46
Crazy monkey so sorry for your loss.
crazy monkey, so sorry. make sure that you and DP look after each other. :hugs:
chicken, they said 3-5 days and they are still waiting on my blood results to come through. i'll ring and harrass them next week :) it probably also depends who you get to do it. my u/s lady wouldn't tell us anything, but lucky my DH remembered all the measurements and i've already googled them :thumbsup:
sandy :fingerscrossed: that with the amnio or whatever you are having shows all is ok.
Crazy monkey :hugs: to you and your family.
Sandy hope all turns out okay for you. At my first nuchal US with DS they told me high risk from the US but was reduced when they combined it with the blood results. Hope the specialists bring better news :fingerscrossed:
AngelGirl
25-01-2007, 07:42
Crazy Monkey - honey, I am so sorry to hear you lost your little one. I wish I could give you a proper hug............:hugs: :hugs: . Take care of yourself.
Mel - sounds like you had a lovely time with DH yesterday, what a sweetheart he is.
Deb - great to hear that your scan went well!
Cinta - A big welcome to you!! DH and I are debating whether or not to find out the sex. He would like to but I'd like a surprise. I said to him yesterday - if you push out the baby, you can find out the sex!!! He didn't have a comeback for that one :laughing:
Once I get up for that 3am pee, i seem to be having trouble getting back to sleep
Tara....I'm hearing you on that one. I woke at 4am this morning and thought my belly had all of a sudden popped right out. After I sat on the toliet for awhile I realised it was all fluid!!
Mothertobein2007 - Hope the m/s eases up for you soon. Mine seemed to disappear last week but returned this week...damn it!
Deb - stop googling!!! Naughty!!
I am not sad. I feel numb right now. What is there to be excited about? An abnormal child? Great. What a winner I am.
Sandy - I'm sorry to hear about your scan results. Please try and stay positive, the chances you have a ds baby are very slim. My cousin was told she was in the high risk category with her NT scan. She had the amnio and just got the results back, her baby is fine. Apparently this is quite common, so fingers crossed it's the same result for you. Hopefully you will get the answer you need to make your decision.
Good morning everyone,
Crazy Monkey - I was stunned to read your post. Coming all this way to find out bad news sucks. I agree that the D&C immediately would help.
Chicken - God I needed to hear those words. I have been in tears all night and today and I keep telling myself that there still is a chance of a normal baby but the internet (evil thing!) has increased my fears. Apparently because by the time you get the results, they make you carry the baby until 20-22wks and then induce you. So you have to give birth to a live baby and hold it while it dies. That just destroyed me and DH last night and I can't get the images out of my head. I couldn't handle something like that. I'd be suicidal after, I swear.
Jamb - The more stories of people in the same situation that I hear, the better I feel. My best friend was high risk too. She had her second child when she was 40 and they told her 1:150 but she went on to have a beautiful normal baby girl. I just don't want to get my hopes up.
angelgirl i know i am naughty googling but its hard not to! i guess you have to take everything you find out on the internet with a grain of salt. i'm sure it all can't be fact!
sandy, i've been thinking of you a lot and just hope like hell that this all works out ok for you. please know that we are all behind you 100%.
pregomum
25-01-2007, 08:15
I'm so happy my m/s is subsiding but my bb's are still really sore and are huge gotta go buy some new bras. Normally I'm only an A or B cup so is good to have something there for a change.
Crazey Monkey - :hugs: If you need to talk PM me, we are all behind you and keep your head up.
Cinta - I'm gonna find out what sex my baby is too, I think it's a surprise either way (whether at u/s or when it is born)
Tara - I'm sooo sick of not being able to get back to sleep too. I'm so tired all the time and not being able to sleep is just p***ing me off.
Sandy - Good luck hope all goes well.
Is anyone else ripping their partners heads off, I know what I'm being upset over is nothing, but can't help ranting at him. Poor man:laughing:
I actually think the tiredness has dropped off in the past 24hrs. Yes, I have been up all night crying but I don't feel as lethargic as what I have been. I think
2nd trimester is here.
There is hope ladies!
Sandy - I really hope you can stay positive. I know that's easy to say, but as an engineer, your rational mind should realise how slim the odds are of there being a problem. Even if you are 1:50, there's still a 98% chance of everything being fine. Its not like its 1:2 or 1:3. Be upset that you have to have a needle in a stomach (something that scares the pants off a needle phobic like myself:eek: ), but don't be upset that your baby has d/s until you know for sure. I too have heard so many stories about many women are not prepared emotionally for the results of the NT scan, and that medical staff make women unnecessarily feel that their risk of downs is higher than it actually is, by using the words 'high risk'. I realise it probably doesn't make you feel any better, but you and I are probably 'high risk'even before we started given our age. My OB gave me some information on d/s to put the risks into perspective. At 35, you probably have a 1:300 risk before you start. At the place I'm going for my scan today, anything less than 1:250 and they put you in the 'high risk' category. But again, take comfort in the numbers and also that, in a few weeks time, you'll know for sure.
Deb - when did you have your blood tests done? I had mine on Sat, thinking that they'd be there waiting when I had the test today, so they could give me the results, but maybe I'm just being optimistic. I hope I don't get a meanie u/s person that doesn't say anything like you. Don't they realise how stressed we get? Like you, I'll probably just take in as much info as I can with whatever I can see on the screen!!
Oh Crazy Monkey- I'm so sorry hon. Take care of yourself.
Chicken, i had my blood tests done on monday and they said they would be at the u/s place "around" wednesday. but since we were away in nz until monday i didn't really have a choice. we will find out the results eventually!!
good luck for your scan today, let us know how it goes.
you are right about people saying "high risk" when really in any other situation 1/250 odds would be pretty low!
our u/s lady was actually really nice, i just think she was only that - the u/s lady - and wouldn't want to give out an opinion that may be wrong. fair enough. she wouldn't have a guess at the sex either! :p not long to wait though. :)
DH is walking over to collect my scans now as I want to see the report. The sonograher said nothing to me yesterday. Made it seem baby was fine. I was in the waiting room and she came out to me and said "Umm, the doctor has had a look, and due to the difficulties we were having he suggests an amnio and call your oby asap." I was stunned. They made an amnio sound like ordering pizza! So when the oby rang to say that the measurement at baby's neck was bigger than normal, I just about fainted. So I am curious to see if anything else is wrong that they didn't tell me.
I also don't have my bloods back so that will give me a new ratio as I am only going off the one Chicken quoted.
Just spoke to best friend. She was 1:60 :eek: until her bloods came back and put her at 1:15000. She was greatly relieved, as you would be.
wow pays to have those bloods done as well then!
:wave: ladies,
we've been away for a few days so there's heaps here to catch up on here. Sounds like sad news and good news.
I had the n/s and blood tests on Monday. With my last preg the scan took 3 and 1/2 hours- couldn't get baby in to the right spot. This one took 20 mins! Spent longer in the blood testing waiting room. Not sure if I should be worried that this baby might be a rat bag and much more lively than our very placid Hugh.
Does anyone know how long it takes for the results to come through? Did I just read someone said 3-4 days? We've a cricket day tomorrow in our district and I look pretty preggers so would be nice to tell people. :fingerscrossed: get a phone call today, tomorrow being a holiday.
that was me that said 3-4 days but i think everywhere will be different. they won't even send out the results since we live a whole 20 minutes away!! we have to pick them up, just as well i would have to wait another day if they sent them :)
my scan was quick too. hope that doesn't mean i'm having a ratbag as well!!
M'kay, the latest news. The Antenatal unit rang me and can see me today at 2pm!!
BUT my scan notes indicate that bubs has a cystic hygroma present. This not good at all. From what I have read, I may choose to terminate now as the stats are not good for this one. Google it.
I'll post when I get back.
niesl_bug
25-01-2007, 10:02
CrazyMonkey - I am so, so, so deeply sorry for your loss. I know nothing I can say will help you heal, but please know that we are all thinking of you and sending lots of strength and support your way.
Sandy - I am standing by waiting for more news from you and have everything :fingerscrossed: for you.
Wow - this week must be one for bad news.
I found out yesterday that the man who collects our drycleaning from the office - who I see everyday and chat to everyday had a heart attack on Tuesday night and passed away. I only saw him at midday on Tuesday and he was totally fine! He was fit and healthy and such a lovely man. I'm sorry and I know this is unrelated, but it has really put things into perspective for me - made me stop and appreciate all the wonderful things I have and reminds me of how precious life is.
Take care girls - I am thinking of you all xxx
Crazy Monkey
25-01-2007, 10:44
Thank you for all your kind words and hugs...
Again, wishing all of you all the best for the rest of your pregnancy...
:hugs: CM
I can't believe you have to pick up your n/s results. Mine were just sent to the obs and then her rooms will contact me with the final number and risk, after putting it together with the bloods result.
yeah well apparently we are too far away for them to be sent??!! i'm sure they could cover the cost of a courier in the $130 i gave them!! haha i don't really mind.
sandy where are you we are waiting. :fingerscrossed:
OMG Cinta :kiss: can't believe we're due in the same month again!! I'm so excited. I was hoping when you originally said you were preg we would be due around the same time again but thought you would have known well before now if we were, obviously not though.
I'll just explain for everyone else, when Cinta and I when preg with our first babies they were due on the same day or a day apart so it's pretty freaky again we're so close, so soon after! I think Hugh was a week late last time and Imogen must have been a smidge early.
I'm so sorry Sandy. I did google it, and it is devastating news. It seems to suggest that around 50% of cystic hygromas are associated with chromosomal abnormality. If there is no chromosomal abnormality, there is hope, with some cases resolving themselves normally by 18-20 weeks. But its a big chance to take I suppose. I'm so terribly sorry Sandy. I hope your appointment this afternoon gives you some more hopeful news, or at least that you come to a decision that gives you peace.
OMG Cinta :kiss: can't believe we're due in the same month again!! I'm so excited. I was hoping when you originally said you were preg we would be due around the same time again but thought you would have known well before now if we were, obviously not though.
I'll just explain for everyone else, when Cinta and I when preg with our first babies they were due on the same day or a day apart so it's pretty freaky again we're so close, so soon after! I think Hugh was a week late last time and Imogen must have been a smidge early.
It's so great being due the same month as you again! Will be great to compare with each other and with our first pregnancies!
When were you due with Hugh? 13th I think? I was due the 15th & Immie arrived on the 17th (my 19th Bday :yelclap: ) and Hugh arrived on the 21 June? Or 22nd? I can't remember...
Now that I know I'm preggie I honestly don't know how I didn't know I was earlier! But hopefully the time will go quicker now, coz with Imogen I knew pretty much straight away :yes:
Yay I'm excited for us Karen!! :kiss:
Oh & I'm due on the 14th by the way, not sure if I told everyone :)
:fingerscrossed: Sandy I too hope your appt went well :hugs: I also hope the people you saw were helpful and caring.
Cinta, that right, Hugh was due on the 13th and he was a week over and born on the 20th.
You're due this time 10 days after me.
I was telling Angus about it before, he thinks we must have some bizarre sisterhood connection thing happening :laughing:
Cinta, that right, Hugh was due on the 13th and he was a week over and born on the 20th.
You're due this time 10 days after me.
I was telling Angus about it before, he thinks we must have some bizarre sisterhood connection thing happening :laughing:
:laughing: :laughing: I think we must do!
How many kids do you plan on having Kaz? :)
Wow, what a day everyone has had...
Crazy Monkey - so sorry for your loss, I had a blighted ovum in August last year so I have some idea what you are going through. :hugs: to you and your DH.
Tara- that is so sad :crying: . You're right, things like that really do make you think. DS is recovering well from his jabs, thanks, he's a trooper!
Kazza & Cinta - that's so great that you guys get to be pg together again! My friend whose bub is 1 week older than DS is pg and due 2 days before me and it's great to have someone to share the journey with.
Sandy - I am so sorry you have had bad news. I really hope your appointment gave you some clarity and maybe some hope? We're all here for you whatever decision you make :hugs: .
Welcome to all the newbies :wave:
Things are ticking along here, had my bloods this morning for my m/w appt in a week and a half. The m/s is still sticking around unfortunately, but I'm trying to take it as a sign that bubs is hanging on in there.
Have a good evening girls!
Well I'm back from my nuchal scan and, as I was hoping, they were able to give me the results straight away. Its good news - very low risk 1:6700:smiliedance: , which is great, considering my age. I feel a little guilty Sandy, I really do. Having this test is a double-edged sword. It has brought me enormous peace of mind, yet it brings others heartbreak and/or uncertainty.
congrats chicken that's great news! :yelclap:
Oh my!!! I don't log in for a couple of days...............
Welcome Cinta. I hope you have a happy and healthy pregnancy.
C. Monkey - I am SO sorry to hear your news. I cried. I have no idea what to say, except I wish you well and hope that you're feeling okay - well, as okay as can be expected.
Sandy - Whoa! There's a curly one! I hope that you had some good news today. If it's any consolation, one of my friends had a ratio of 1:25, but she didn't get the results until she was 21 weeks, so they were going to have to induce labour if she wanted to terminate. She couldn't imagine going through that, so she continued the pregnancy. Brittany is now 8, and is an extremely smart little girl who has been chased by about 5 private schools offering scholarships. No sign of Down's whatsoever. As Chicken said, it's just a raito.............although I know that I'm telling you something you already know. Whatever you decide to do, you know we'll support you. Well I will. I know it's a decision you won't take lightly.
As for me, HOW BIG ARE MY NIPPLES GETTING!!! I forgot about that! I really dont' like it. I feel like an African woman who never wears a bra. But on the plus, m/s seems to be subsiding, and I can get by without an afternoon nap now.
Had my NT bloods taken yesterday, scan is booked for next Wednesday, and apparently they send the bloods to the U/S place, and they marry up your results for you there and then. With DD i had to wait for my next OB appt, so that's going to be nice knowing straight away.
{hugs}
Hi gals,
Well, more bad news for this thread. Chicken, I am VERY happy about your scan :hugs: and you are right about the cyst.
My baby has a 10% chace of being "normal". They think turners syndrome as it seems that I am having a girl. The cyst is big and nasty. It may kill the baby alone before birth or disppear by week 20. If I wait to week 20 and they cyst is still there and they confirm chromosone problems, then I can have the baby who will have an 8% chance of being alive after the birth or through inducement, give birth then and hold my deformed baby while it dies.
I think I would slit my own wrists giving birth to a child who is dead or will die anyway. Mentally, I don't think that I can do it.
So with a 10% conservative chance our baby will be normal and heathy, we have decided to terminate the pregnancy now.
If it was just Turners, I'd take the risk but the cyst is nasty and my child, if it lived, would require surgery for the rest of its life to keep cutting it out. The scars would be awful. Thie cyst is on her neck.
I go in on Monday for a D & C.
As for future pregnancies, I don't know. They will test everything they can to make sure there are no chromosone issues but the specialist believes this is just age related. If I do fall pregnant again, I will be under the constant supervision of the Fetal Medicine Unit because of this incident.
The doctor was wonderful. She discussed ALL our options, was realistic with us but kind. And even if I change my mind on the operating table on Monday, they will cease all procedures.
I phoned my oby from the hospital and he said that he supports my decision 100%.
I know that many people here will not and I don't really care. Nothing anyone can say will change my mind or hurt me more than what I am hurting now.
Sandy, am thinking of you :hugs: . I would do the same thing in your circumstances, incredibly hard still. More :hugs: .
Sandy, no one can judge your decision.
You're being very brave and it is not a decision anyone would make lightly and without a great deal of thought and consideration.
Anyway, I've pm'd you.
Hugs and hugs
Sandy. I think its probably a good thing that you have so much certainty about what you are doing. Its better to know that there's very little hope, than think there could have been a chance. I would do exactly the same thing. I will miss you around here. Big :hugs: for Monday. I'm sure it will be tough.
Oh Sandy,
I am so sorry :hugs: . It's such a tough decision to make and you are a very strong woman for being honest with yourself and making it. I would probably do the same in your situation, as I'm sure many women would.
All the best for Monday and be good to yourself :hugs: .
Sandy i'll be thinking of you on Monday. :hugs:
Sandy, I've been thinking about you much of the night, and am so sorry for the decision that you and DH have had to make.....such a tough one. I personally completely understand the decision, and support you 110%.
Big :hugs: :hugs: to you and you family. I will think of you on Monday.
Crazy Monkey
26-01-2007, 10:51
Sandy all the best for Monday hun...
You are making the best decision for you, your family and your little girl... Don't let anyone tell you otherwise...
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
Tan-mumof3
26-01-2007, 10:56
Sandy so sorry for this horrible tough decision you and your dh have had to make. I just want to say that i would do the same thing if in your situation and to let you know you are not alone we are all here for you and support you.All the best for monday.
OverTheMoon
26-01-2007, 11:01
Sandy, I am so sorry for the hard (i think that's an understatement) time you are going through. Like most of the others have said, we would probably make the same decision you have. Thinking of you and sending you :hugs: now and on Monday.
niesl_bug
26-01-2007, 12:13
Dearest Sandy
I am so proud of you for being so strong and admire your strength, courage and grace under these awful circumstances.
Our thoughts are with you, DH and DD during this difficult time. I would do exactly the same as you are doing if I were in your situation - and you have 200% support from me.
We will all be thinking of you on Monday and please remember that we are all here for you.
Take care darling :hugs:
Thankyou everyone for your kind words and support. I have googled pictures and the cyst is even worse than I thought so I am now even more resolved to not put my baby through the pain and hardship for the sake of my own feelings.
I will check back in on Monday after my D & C. I am being given a general which I am happy about as I know what they do in a termination and it is ********. I wish my little one would gently drift off to a permanent sleep before it. But this is better than years of possible sugery, suffocation at birth or in the womb because of the cyst and ridicule from this sometimes cruel world, in the slim 2% chance she survived.
I have named her Grace and I will never forget her.
For everyones sake, I hope I have been that 1 in whatever statistic so that you, my good friends, do not have to endure this heartache.
Talk soon.
Sandy
AngelGirl
26-01-2007, 16:33
Sandy - You an an incredibly strong woman and I'm so sorry that you have to go through this ordeal. I think you have made the best decision for you, your family and most importantly - for Grace. You have nothing but support and encouragement from your friends here on BH. We'll all be thinking of you on Monday sweetheart.
God bless you...:hugs:
Crazy Monkey
26-01-2007, 20:05
Sandy,
What a beautiful name you have chosen for your little girl... Once again all the best for Monday and we are all here if you need us...
God Bless
Oh Sandy! :crying: I'm so heartbroken for you! I'm sitting here in tears because right now I think you have to be just about the strongest woman I know. Grace will be radiant in a beautiful place :angel: and I'm sure that when you do FINALLY get to meet her, she'll cover you with all the hugs and kisses she couldn't give to you now. :hugs: to you and DH and DD (does she know what's happening?) Be confident in the decision you're making, no one knows what you're going through except you. All my thoughts are with you as you go through this hard time.
I came on to say, that just about 2 minutes ago I felt my first 'flutter' :) .
Crazy Monkey & Sandy :hugs: to you both
Hey Gretel, that's cool! How many weeks are you? I can't remember how many I was last time when I felt DD move.
According to my dating scan I'm just over 11 weeks now :D (but I'm sure I was further than that :rolleyes: )
Was very cool... can't wait for the kicks to start :yes:
Hey a Q for those of us with other kids... when are you planning on telling them that you're having a baby? I have no idea about how to go about it with the boys as they are still very little. I'm thinking of getting some children's books out of the library about getting a new baby in the house and reading them those for a while to get familiar with the idea. I think I'll tell them when I'm a bit bigger and they can actually feel the kicks... so they feel like they are a part of it too.... atm it's just so hard to explain to them that they just can't bombdive onto Mummy's tummy from the top of the couch anymore :no: but they won't understand why.
I have told DD that there is a baby in mummy's tummy. When she jumps on me, or climbs over me and hurts me, I just tell her that she hurts the baby when she does it, and she pulls my top up and kisses and hugs my belly.
She tells me it's a girl and that she's going to be a 'big sis'.
She is only a couple of months older than your boys. I think they'd understand. But a book is a good option. I understand that there are some good ones out there.
Xavier's Mum
29-01-2007, 12:29
I have told DS as well - the only way to get him to stop jumping on me. He also says its a little Sister and wants to call her "Teddy" (like his bear). However he is at that age were everything is "pooey" - a real little boy - I so desperately want a sweet little girl....
Sandy - my thoughts are with you and your family and I fully support your decision.
I haven't been as active on this site as everyone else as I am waiting for my scan and blood work. Bloods tomorrow and Scan next Monday - due to my age I am worried about the results and I know that I will make the same decsion that you have made if there is any chance that my child would have to endure a life of pain - either emotionally of physically.
Can I please ask the Mods to close this thread off? There is a #4 that has started, and we don't want anyone getting confused.
Ta!
Kirst ask away-
just pm one who's on line and go for it
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