View Full Version : Sleep Problems and What to Do
It is me again! Still have problems with DS and his sleep. It is getting to the not coping stage. I am just so tired. I just want to do what is right for him you know. But I also need sleep. He is so restless at night and lately during the day he is not sleeping as long and getting cranky. We tried putting him to bed earlier last night and that failed because when DH got home and Kai woke and he went to try and settle him he saw dad and went playtime and took over an hour to settle again. So now I have come down to a few options and I am not sure what to do. My options are:
1. Go and buy a few different books and follow one at a time and see if one works.
2. I have been told about Saveoursleep and you can order online books that have set routines and sleep advice.
3. I could try get in to a sleep clinic but it would take at least a month
4. I rang a service that comes to your home but it costs $130 for day and $270 for an overnight but she can come next week.
5. Device our own routine and plan and stick to it...problem is I don't know what!!
Thanks again and sorry all. Just at a complete loss as to what to do.
Hey Channy, your poor thing..
I would go with No.5 - make a routine that works for YOU and go with it.
When Andrew was having difficulties with his sleeping, I spent about 3 days just TOTALLY following his cues, feed when hungry, bed when tired and kept a spreadsheet with detailed times of how long slept, how long fed, what solids etc etc.
After those 3 days there was a good pattern emerging, so I said thats it! And stuck to it.
Some babies respond well to having a routine, some don't, but all you can do is try!
Our bubs are fairly close in age - this is what mine does at the moment:
5.30am breastfeed
5.45am - 7.30 sleep
8.00am - solid brekky (baby porridge with pureed fruit)
9.30am - breastfeed
10.00am - 11-11.30am - sleep
12.00pm - solid lunch (yoghurt, toast)
1.00pm - breastfeed
1.30pm - 2.30/3pm sleep
5.00pm - solids dinner (meat and veg, sometimes pasta)
5.30pm - bath
6.00pm - breastfeed
7.30pm-5.30am sleep
At his day time sleep times, I put him down at the usual time. If after 2 attempts at resettling, if he doesn't go to sleep, I bring him back up for about 5-10 minutes walking around the house or whatever, and then try again.
You have to be flexible, but you also need to perservere! Its tough sometimes.
When you are getting really sleep deprived, I know how hard it is!! At its worst, at night times me and DH would take turns depending on waht time it was. Anytime up until about 3am I would get up - if it was after that, DH would get up, as he had to get up for work at 5am anyway, and getting up a few hours earlier doesn't kill him!
At night time when resettling, if after an hour he is still not back asleep, I feed him. It works. But I always give it an hour first. Sometimes I do a modified control cry - I know he's only grumpy, not in pain. I wait 2 minutes and resettle, then 3 minutes, then 4 etc. It very rarely gets to an hour - I think maybe only 3 times I have had to feed him to settle him (in the past few months).
Try to sleep when your bub sleeps - or at least put your feet up! A 10 minute quick nap on the couch does wonders!!
If you need to talk send me a pm or on msn :)
You could email Pinky McKay FOR FREE and get her advice. She writes brilliant parenting books. You can also try the masses of suggestions in the sites I've posted in the sleep/settling thread. Cosleeping works for many of us because even if bub wakes up you don't have to get out of bed. I've never really had a sleepless night and he's just on 2. Understanding what's normal and then working with it (as opposed to trying "train" your child to someone's timetable) is going to nurture your baby far more, and promote both your comfort level and sleep. Cosleeping mothers sleep more than mothers who get up to their babies. There is also the No Cry Sleep Solution which you can get lots of online FOR FREE as well as buying her book if you want it but that's only $24.95 or round about. I shocked at how much Tizzie charges for bad advice with no scientific or medical proof for it.
I hope you all get some sleep soon :)
Gentle sleep resources.
http://askdrsears.com/html/7/T070100.asp
8 Infant Sleep Facts Every Parent Should Know
31 Ways to Get Your Baby to Sleep and Stay Asleep
Bedwetting
Hidden Medical Causes of Nightwaking
Sleep Trainers: Buyer Beware!
Night Weaning: 12 Alternatives for the All-Night Nurser
Night Terrors
5 Reasons Why High-Need Infants Sleep Differently
Sleep Safety
SIDS: The Latest Research on How Sleeping With Your Baby is Safe.
Co-Sleeping: Yes, No, Sometimes?
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT SLEEP PROBLEMS
"Questions of the Day" about sleep
http://www.naturalchild.com/articles/sleeping.html
An Oversight of Our Culture
Tine Thevenin
Babies Need Their Mothers Beside Them
James J. McKenna
Bedsharing Promotes Breastfeeding
James J. McKenna
Bedtime Story: Co-sleeping Research
James J. McKenna
Newest: Cosleeping
Tami E. Breazeale
Statement on sleeping locations and sudden death in infants
(Research Document)
Hidden Messages
Jan Hunt
Is It Time to Abolish Cribs?
Jan Hunt
Is sleeping with my baby safe? Can it reduce the risk of SIDS?
James J. McKenna
It's None of Their Business
Peggy O'Mara
Need vs. Habit
Tine Thevenin
A Rediscovery
Tine Thevenin
Rethinking "Healthy" Infant Sleep
James J. McKenna
Ten Reasons to Sleep Next to Your Child at Night
Jan Hunt
When Will My Baby Soothe Himself to Sleep?
Jan Hunt
Pillowtalk – helping your child get a good night’s sleep.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/sleep/fleiss.html
Selfsoothing
http://www.mothering.com/sections/experts/hunt-archive.html#self-soothing
Cosleeping
http://www.mothering.com/sections/experts/buckley-archive.html#co-sleep
No Cry Sleep Solution
http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/
15 ways to help your baby sleep
http://www.pinky-mychild.com/features/baby/sleep.html
Crying for comfort:distressed babies need to be held.
http://www.awareparenting.com/comfort.htm
Four month old wakes up frequently in the night.
http://www.awareparenting.com/answer13.htm
Crying spells in 6 week old infant
http://www.awareparenting.com/answer19.htm
Bedtime problems with 3 year old.
http://www.awareparenting.com/answer22.htm
5 year old wants to sleep with parents.
http://www.awareparenting.com/answer18.htm
Unsubstantiated Medical Statements in “Babywise”
http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/unsub.htm
Babywise advice linked to dehydration, failure to thrive
by Matthew Aney, M.D.
http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm
Controlled comforting…
http://breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/crying.html
Why not to CIO
http://www.mothering.com/sections/experts/hunt-archive.html#cry-it-out
Australian Association for Infant Mental Health Inc.
Affiliated with the World Association for Infant Mental Health
www.aaimhi.org
Position Paper 1: Controlled Crying
Issued November 2002; Revised March 2004
AAIMHI - Controlled Crying Principles
It is normal and healthy for infants and young
children not to sleep through the night and to need
attention from parents. This should not be labeled a
disorder except where it is clearly outside the usual
patterns.
Parents should be reassured that attending to their
infant’s needs/crying will not cause a lasting “habit”.
Waking in older infants and young children may be
due to separation anxiety, and in these cases
sleeping with or next to a parent is a valid option.
This often enables all to get a good night’s sleep.
Any methods used to assist parents to get a good
night’s sleep should not compromise the infant’s
developmental and emotional needs.
Suggestions for alternatives to controlled crying
Fleiss PM, Hodges FM & Phil D (2000). Sweet Dreams: A
Pediatrician’s Secrets for Your Child’s Good Night’s Sleep. Los
Angeles: Lowell House.
Hope M (1996). For Crying Out Loud! Understanding and Helping
Crying Babies. Randwick NSW: Sydney Children’s Hospital.
McKay P (2002). 100 Ways to Calm the Crying. Melbourne: Lothian.
McKay P (2002). Parenting by Heart. Melbourne: Lothian.
Pantley E (2002). The No-Cry Sleep Solution. NewYork: Contemporary
Books.
Sears W & Sears M (2003). The Baby Book: Everything you need
red crayon
09-11-2005, 11:52
Hi Channy,
I know where you are at. Spencer is a pretty good sleeper by day but at night he's really restless. We have a good night-time routine which always helps him to settle and go to sleep straightaway (dinner at 5.30pm, followed by a bath and a breastfeed, a bit of play and cuddles and then in bed by 7pm at the latest). He sleeps well until midnight and then he becomes really unsettled - wakes frequently, tosses and turns, needs to be breastfed to sleep.
I think having a good daytime routine helps. Good sleeps during the day helps with good sleep at night - this works in my case anyway.
Like you I'm very tired from waking and breastfeeding frequently. And while Janet's co-sleeping advice is good, it doesn't really help in our case. Spencer doesn't want to be our bed, he wants to be breastfed. If you are looking for books, "Sleep right, sleep tight" is very helpful.
I'm also considering sleep school for when I get back to Melbourne.
Hope all goes well for you - kepp in touch by pm if you want.
Tea Lady
09-11-2005, 13:16
You're having a rough time of it Channy!
I would say that whatever you decide, try to decide in a moment of "sanity" and then stick to it - I end up in a complete mess when I change my mind halfway through trying to get my bub to sleep, and it's confusing for her I'm sure. Do you have a number you can ring and talk to nurses about your situation? I rang our hotline in tears a couple of times and the ladies were really nice and understanding.
It's so hard isnt' it? How can such cute little babies cause so much grief! I hope you have a better time tonight.
Lucy
Snugglepot
09-11-2005, 15:24
If you want to buy a book to follow and you are not into controlled crying you could try The Baby Whisperer by Tracey Hogg. She seems to know her stuff, does not believe in leaving babies to cry it out and a lot of what she writes makes sense to me. I think I borrowed every book the library had when DS would not sleep and I liked this one the best.
rynosmum
09-11-2005, 20:41
Hi Channy,
Further to Kez&Kyle's email, I've actually got a copy of the Baby Whisperer Baby book here (I also have the toddler which I am enjoying the read of at the mom). You are probably too exhausted to be researching or out looking at books, so I thought I'd summarise her sleep suggestions here.
She actually suggests baby fall asleep without props (including B/F) to ensure that they 'understand' how to self-settle and go back to sleep - the suggestion that if a baby is B/F to sleep in your arms and then wakes up alone in their cot - it is a scary experience. If they are put in their cot awake and then wake later (as bubs do), they know the pattern and know how to fall back to sleep in familiar territory.
She does however suggest a full tum prior to bed and the importance of being strict with any routine you're trying to set (obviously ensuring bub's needs of food, comfort etc are met). With a bub who needs help to learn how to sleep, she suggests a very dark room, blocking out all visual stimulation, reassurance that you are there (patting etc), then when they are calm, leaving the room. After a couple of minutes of crying (not just grizzling), go in, lie baby down if required and without talking or eye contact, pat etc again then leave the room. If necessary pick up, calm and put down.
I saw a few of her programs on Fox a while back and the results were excellent. We followed her suggestions early and have a very good sleeper - it does however have a lot to do with the nature of the bub. Some adapt quicker than others (who would rather play with mum ! :D )
The main point is analysing tired signs and at the first sign, starting the sleep routine. Otherwise if you miss the first sleep window, baby gets overtired and will then not go to sleep (our bubs was a prime example - if I didn't get him down by 7 in the early days, he wouldn't sleep until 10 - now he goes to bed at 6:30)
Here is her website with online forums on sleep. http://www.babywhisperer.com/
Good Luck ! We're thinking of you ! :)
cobysmummy
10-11-2005, 05:26
i know how you feel channy! must be the March boys! Coby will not sleep now,... he used to have a really good sleeping pattern but now he wont sleep and gets all worked up and overtired and i dont know how to shake it... i am waiting to let is pass...
i tried to get baby whisperer out of my local library a few times but its never there... lots of problem sleeper babies around my area i guess!
last night i was up 7 times... although it wasnt really upset just unsettled... and at 4 it was time to play,.. he is just gone back to sleep so im heading back to bed for as long as he will let me...
Good luck!
Hi Channy
Sounds like you have hit the 6 month hump. It is well documented on bubhub if nowhere else that our babies go from being angels to bad sleepers at around the 6 month mark - quite a few of us have shared the horror stories on here of sleep deprivation etc. So our hearts go out to you. The waking multiple times a night are a shocker, and while co-sleeping is one solution it is not one that ever worked for me with DD2.
My advice is to work out what you can live with and go from there. My experience is that if you say that you are prepared to feed once in the night you will end up feeding several times in the night, that if you are prepared to pat to sleep, you will be doing that several times a night too. I have used various forms of controlled crying with varying degrees of success and have found the most effective method for my daughters is being consistent and using no props (no patting, no feeding, no rocking etc.)
I agree with LuWa - decisions made in calm moments are better than ones made out of desperation in the middle of the night.
If you think that some form of controlled crying might be the answer for you let us know and I will share our method with you.
Is it possible to agree with JanetF AND Draught??
I know exactly where you are coming from. At around 6 months my son started waking up to 12 times a night. It was totally exhausting. I tried co-sleeping a few times since bubs was a new born but for some reason it just didn't seem to be beneficial for us. I was so nervous of rolling on him (even though I know that instinctively it just wouldn't happen) that I couldn't get any rest and I got so sore lying in one position all night long (even though I tried to swap with hubby). It just didn't seem to work. Then at six months, like some others have said, my bubs just wanted to play with mummy when in bed. So it just didn't work.
I did try a modified version of CC.
I totally understand the reasons why NOT to CC. And JanetF I agree with what the articles you post say. I love reading them. HOwever, when you are in the depths of chronic sleep-deprivation and no matter what the gentler sleep techniques just don't work for you, and you are getting more and more unable to cope, you just need to do something. I was tired of feeling like a failure as a mum because bubs didn't want to sleep with me, I couldn't get him to sleep well during the day OR night, he was pretty much grizzly all the time so I could see he was unhappy and needed more sleep. On top of that he was "rejecting" boob, even at night. I even tried sleep talking to him for about 3 weeks, but it didn't seem to make a difference. I was doing my best to be calm and patient, but I just couldn't cope any more!
So anyway, the method of CC we used has worked. Bubs now sleeps all night. He puts himself to sleep during the day (occassionally he'll fall asleep after about 3-5 minutes of making a loud monotone noise while sucking his fist - but he's not crying). He has two day time naps and a fairly fluid day time routine that varies slightly every day depending on when bubs is tired/hungry etc for that day. He has one nap for 2 hours or thereabouts, and the other for about 30-40 minutes. He is in bed by 6:30 (usually before as he is waking up earlier and earlier - thank you summer!) and awake at 5ish but not hungry till about 6:30 or so. I still give him a feed at about 9:45pm, but we are trying to wean him off that gently. I'm in no rush as it's working for us. But we just want to get to bed earlier now that he is waking so early!
He is now the happiest baby imaginable, always giggling, talking, smiling. He has definite moods - definite happiness and definite unhappiness when something isn't right!!!
Now, however, if he cries when I put him down I know something is wrong, so we get him up and calm him down. I don't have to CC at all any more. If he is crying I tend to him straight away because I know that he CAN put himself to sleep so if he doesn't for some reason, I know there is a reason for it and we deal with it. He also falls asleep on the bottle at least once a day (usually his 6pm feed) and it doesn't upset his routine at the moment. I quite like those moments as they are so peaceful and relaxed and he is falling asleep in such a lovely, calm manner. We then have cuddles for ages on the couch as I watch his little cherub mouth pout... anyway, enough of that!!!
If you decide that something like a modified version of CC might work for you, email me and I'll give you more details about it. You have to really look into it before doing it. I wouldn't recommend trying it "just to see" if it works then giving up half way through or something. But you need to feel that you and bubs are ready for it before starting. Don't let anyone pressure you into any thing.
Bubs needs to be healthy, calm and happy before starting it and you need support. YOu need to listen to bubs and yourself to assess how it feels. If it feels wrong for you then it is wrong.
Good luck and let us know how you go!
You are not alone. And remember, each phase DOES pass eventually. YOu are an awesome mum - trust that...
I wish it was just a 6 month thing! He has never slept well. When he was younger it was due to his reflux and wind. Now it is still occasionally the reflux or wind but because he has never slept well it is hard to know! He can fall asleep alright sometimes. He just wakes a lot. Lately his day time sleeps he has just been playing and refusing to sleep then being cranky. I guess we will work it out eventually! Only got up 5 times last night! Good for us!
JessandKirra
10-11-2005, 11:40
[/QUOTE]
1. Go and buy a few different books and follow one at a time and see if one works.
3. I could try get in to a sleep clinic but it would take at least a month
.[/QUOTE]
Dont buy books I reccomend going to the library :)
Put your name down at the sleep clinic anyway-if you dont need it in a month you can always thank them and cancel. How long have you been sleep deprived anthoer month is not that long and I hear they are really life saving.
Is it possible to agree with JanetF AND Draught??
.
LOL - of course it is!!!!
I guess it is possible to agree with both you and JanetF, Draught!
I like philosophies in attachment parenting, but I still have to do what works for us...
Cheers..
I guess it is possible to agree with both you and JanetF, Draught!
I like philosophies in attachment parenting, but I still have to do what works for us...
Cheers..
I am the same - I love the demand feeding, baby wearing side of things, but also believe that no one can be prescriptive for any parent. There is no "one size fits all" way of doing things, so giving lots of options is the best option in my book - that way parents can make an informed decision about what will work for their child. And on that front I think most posters on this forum agree! After all - that is why we are all here isn't it?!
joshiesmum
13-11-2005, 07:28
Hi Channy,
My baby has always been a good night sleeper however this last week he has started to wake a 2am on the dot. He looks like he is getting a top tooth which would explian why he cannot resettle himself but i just can not function the next day! No wonder you are getting desprate! If it were me i would spend a million dollars for sleep school if it works but then i have always loved my sleep!
I found this Babylove by Robin Barker great for a middle of the road view, even though I am much more into attachment parenting and have found that for my dd she sleeps in her cot from her 8pm feed and then i bring her in with us after, it seems to work well and she seems to understands that when I lie down to feed in the dark it is sleeptime. My hisband says i am often back to sleep before her feed is over.
Bec
I recommend the information from www.saveoursleep.com... took about 3 weeks but really worked for us !
Hugs
Heids
My 13 month old has always been a good day sleeper until the last 3 months. He would always take 2 day sleeps a day at about 8.30 or 9am then again at about 1.30pm, although I worked hard to ensure he got more than 45 minutes at a time. When he didn't have more than that, I would use controlled crying for up to 1 hour and he would put himself back to sleep for at least another 45 minutes. He then would sleep for a total of about 1 1/2 hrs. That worked for the last 2 months and now we're back to square one! For the last week he has only been sleeping for 45 minutes, although he always sleeps well at night.
I asked a local sleep school for advice who suggested putting him to sleep at 9am then if he only has a short sleep again put him down half an hour later. They said if that doesn't work then put him down for an early afternoon sleep for 12pm. He still only took a 45 minute sleep! I am now trying one sleep a day at about 11.30 - 12pm. The first day he woke after 45 mins but I was able to resettle him quickly for another 45 minutes then he woke again only 20 minutes later. He had about 2 hrs which was great! The second day he only slept for 45 minutes. I resettled him quickly again then he slept for only another 20 minutes. Maybe I have to persevere for at least a week until he gets used to his new routine?
Controlled crying no longer seems to be working as he will resettle himself but only for 20 minutes then he's awake again! He seems very tired so I've moved his normal bedtime from 7.30 to 6.30pm. He sleeps until 5.45am, a big improvement on 5am!
I have always used controlled crying techniques in the past, but they no longer seem to be working, as he only sleeps for an extra 20 minutes! He has no problems going to sleep!
If someone has some advice, that would be great!:confused:
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.