No-Cry Sleep School Support Thread

[pookiesossige]

Hello Tired Mummies!!

Is anyone else following Elizabeth Pantley's "No-Cry Sleep Solution" methods? And needing support and encouragement like I am? I desperatly need some- but also have plently to give! Lets share this journey in order to stop the wheels from falling off when times get tough :)

I have embarked on Elizabeth Pantley's gentle methods of teaching my 8-month old to sleep better at night. We are currently re-settling every 45mins-1.5 hours. :(

Last night was Day 2 of using the Gentle Removal technique (also known as the "Pantley Pull-Off) and I restettled her 6 times, for 45 mins-1 hour each time... :crying: I feel glad that I stuck at it, but miserable because I only had 2.5 hours sleep all up.. :sleeping:

DH is so happy that I never for a second considered using CC or another cry-it-out method, but thinks that what I am doing now is also ridiculous- probably more out of his own need for sleep (and super-fast results for whichever technique is used). So there's no support coming from him atm. I believe there must be others out there in a similar situation!

[buzzing bee]

Hi
I stared a similar thread last year and got a lot of responses. I have the same book but not a lot worked which i think mainly is because my dd is just a bad sleeper which time has fixed.
I never botherd with getting rid of the dummy because we never had a prob with dd having one.

What technique are you using besides getting rid of the dummy?

[Pixie]

Em well done it'a killer getting no sleep, but I think if we can get our babies to sleep in happy nice environment then it's better in the long run and they will start sleeping longer, I have said before how this method works well for me presently Eliza is waking up a lot more again darn teeth!!!! But she is going down well and the PPO is working a dream!

[pookiesossige]

Hi
What technique are you using besides getting rid of the dummy?

Ariene doesn't have dummies, I am trying to stop her waking hourly for the breast by ensuring she doesn't fall asleep there. I remove her from the breast as she is getting really sleepy, she fusses, I give it back to her, count to 20 (and watch the sucking pattern for it to slow etc) then remove it again... and so on, until she doesn't crack the poops anymore when I remove her. Then I put her in the cot and (apparently) she will eventually learn go to sleep in there....

The idea is that she recieves the comfort of a feed as part of her bedtime routine, but doesn't wake for a feed everytime she moves to a lighter sleep phase at night iykwim..

Thanks so much for your encouragement, Pixie :hugs: I'm so glad the PPO works for you! It feels like I am teasing her though, and I don't like that. Because of course, the boob is still right there. One time last night, I lost count at 27 boob-removals. Every time she would perk right up (no matter how tired she was getting), arch her back and SCCRRRREEEAAM. Of course I'd shove that booby back in their quicksmart! And try again.....

It's soooo exhausting, especially with a toddler who cries out in the night occasionally. DH deals with that :thumbsup:

[buzzing bee]

Hi Again
I was thinking about the pantley pull off with the dummy and not boob. When our bub was about 8 or 9 months old she was waking for boob at night more for comfort then hunger.

She was waking about 7 times a night and we ended up having my hubby sleep in her room and get up to her for about a week and she went from those 7 wakings to 3 and then sleeping thru but she has a dummy.
That worked for us, she still wakes when she is teething though.

[Pixie]

27 times OMGosh that is bad I thought 5 times was mad! I still don't have Eliza going to sleep on her own she is still fed to sleep, but she as I said pulls off or I pull her off another thing I do is pull her off I have even stopped holding her chin now and she opens her eyes and looks for the boob and then I hold her really snuggly and like a small baby I bounce/rock her in my arms as she is drifiting off I put her in her cradle and continue rocking her, not sure what will happen when I get her a cot and it doesn't rock, maybe those rocking thing's lol

I don't use blankets either so I don't wake her to tuck her in etc, lately she has just been in her PJ's and I bought a 2.5 grobag for the UK.

Do you think Ariene is teething?

I think I have got it easier than you as I just have her to cope with and not a toddler thank lordy for your DH!! I am sure I will be asking you in the future for help lol

[pookiesossige]

I don't use blankets either so I don't wake her to tuck her in etc, lately she has just been in her PJ's and I bought a 2.5 grobag for the UK.

Do you think Ariene is teething?

I think I have got it easier than you as I just have her to cope with and not a toddler thank lordy for your DH!! I am sure I will be asking you in the future for help lol

I have a grobag too, Pixie, we love it!

She finished getting 4 teeth a few weeks ago. You've got me thinking that maybe she's getting even more!! But I'm pretty sure that there'll be no more for a little while.

As for having a toddler too... It is really hard, to be honest. Some days, I really feel that the wheels are going to come off (he is very highly-strung, very busy and active). I grizzle about it each night when I am putting together a bit of a 'program' for him for the next day to keep him busy enough so that he is kept from getting bored. But then I think- "How on EARTH would a single mother cope??! I am SOOO Lucky"

Bub crying, off I go..:)

[BabyJoy]

Just wanted to say I'm here for support if anyone needs it! Just send me a PM.

I followed this book and it worked brilliantly for my daughter. Since about nine months of age she has slept from 7pm to 6.30am. She is now 10 months and a great sleeper. We only have the odd night where she is restless (perhaps teething or constipation?), but I have never had a problem getting her back to sleep and I contribute this to my patience and persistence with the methods in this book. It took probably three weeks (the first week was keeping a diary of her habits when I discovered I was up at least 7 times a night). It was physically and mentally exhausting and it has really put me off having more children... not really, I just think I'll wait a while first!
The things that worked for us (and things she still uses as sleep aids) are music (lullabies), a "lovey" - she has a pink singlet that I used to wear, dim lighting or darkness (she used to need a night light but has grown out of that), saying key words at every nap time and bedtime, and following a set bedtime routine - dinner at 5.30pm, bath at 6, book or quiet playtime, and a bottle at 6.30pm, bed by 7pm. Some nights she is reluctant to go to sleep straight away, but I just stay in the room by the cot and keep reassuring her that it's okay to go to sleep. Lots of bum pats, tummy rubs, stroke her hair, etc, to calm her down and sometimes I pick her up and rock her. She always needed me to be in the room when she went to sleep but just this week we have tried putting her down, saying goodnight and leaving the room, and she has put herself to sleep! So amazing! I never thought it could get this good with a young baby, but it has! Good luck to those just starting out, and please don't give up... patience and persistence are the key! (and lots of love of course!
:hugs: )

[pookiesossige]

Oh Shannon, that is just WONDERFUL!! :yelclap:
That is exactly how I want this to work out for us...
Last night was night 3, still up 5-7 times, for about 30-45 mins each time doing the PPO thing.
I worry that I'm not doing it properly because I get so tired and nod off in the rocking chair with her, leaving her on the boob too long.
Thanks so much for responding, I'll pm you sometime.
:wave:
Em

[carly_joy]

I can definately relate. My son who is almost 12 months has never really been a good sleeper, has only ever slept through the night twice, this was when he was a newborn. I classify 3-4 wakes as a good night, :yes: as sometimes he can wake almost every hour. I know how incredibly hard and tiring it is, but have been attachment parenting, so was not keen to try controlled crying. However will admit to trying it once (in desperation) and felt really guilty because he became so distressed. Am looking to buy the book you talk about. I hope it will help, and hope you're having some success. Try checking out this website on sleep problems, http://www.askdrsears.com/default2.asp
I read a book called the baby sleep book by Dr William and Martha Sears and found it quite helpful!

[Becbabe]

Hi everyone,

We have just (as in this weekend) started using the NCSS book. I would love to hear how it's working for some others!

Ella has in the last two weeks really settled down at night, only 2 wakes for 15mins each. I had been gently taking her off the nipple as she got drowsy and she's pretty good about that now (I used the Pinky Mckay book)

But our problem is with napping - unless she is held & rocked, no naps, and then you can't put her down anywhere! I'm well aware that the night sleep is the one that counts

So we're shooting for getting her to go to sleep in her cot by herself. Little little baby steps though - ATM I'm just putting her down a little bit awake using Phase 1.

Shannon I love a good news story like that!!

buzzing bee, that's a great idea of getting Dad to go to her at night so there's no booby! If I get to feeling that Ella's waking more for comfort than food we will try that.

carly_joy I also loved Dr Sears nighttime book. He makes it easier to ignore all those "rod for your back" people :yes:

Em Elizabeth says to try to do everything on your plan but not to beat yourself up if it doesn't work every time and you revert... every time you do it and it does work, she is learning :smiliedance:

Good luck to everyone!

[jungle_queen]

Thought I'd drop in here and keep an eye on how things go with ppl. I am about to start the NCSS .. have done my logs (her napping is woeful!) and get started this week .. the PPO is my big challenge I suspect :rolleyes:
I'm not looking for miracles .. just mindful that when I start work PT in two months I may not be able to function so well if I am getting up 3-4 times at night & having to do without my catch up nana naps!

[pookiesossige]

Oh wow, I thought that this thread was well and truly dead! So glad there are others other there trying E.P's ideas when CC doesn't work or is not what you want to do to start with.

We have relapsed a bit... it is just so hard :( For a few nights she was only up 3-4 times. Now it's back to 7-8 times a night. Occasionally she'll surprise me by becoming really alert when I put her in the cot after a feed- yet then she'll do her head-shaking thing and settle herself back down and drift off.
But it's a rare event. A lot of the time, I'll be feeding her in the rocking chair and I'll drop off to sleep myself. Then I wake up in the dark holding her, fast asleep, at the boob. So she then goes into the cot already asleep, which defeats the purpose of doing the PPO.
I can't help it- I'm just so sleep-deprived.

DH or I also get up a couple of times a night for our 2.5year old when he cries for water- or just cries for some reason. It never used to be like this with him! He was always the great sleeper. Ariene's crying wakes him up, his crying then wakes Ariene up.

So I'm pretty down yet really needing to get motivated again, so that I can continue with the PPO, this time sucessfully.



carly_joy I also loved Dr Sears nighttime book. He makes it easier to ignore all those "rod for your back" people

I love this book too! Actually I love all Dr Sears' stuff :yes:


Em Elizabeth says to try to do everything on your plan but not to beat yourself up if it doesn't work every time and you revert... every time you do it and it does work, she is learning :smiliedance:


:hugs: Thanks so much.... that is so true, I need to remember that..

[pookiesossige]

Oh I just thought, I think that Ariene is teething... I guess that could be one of the reasons she is waking up so much again *sigh*...

[jungle_queen]

All I can say Em is good luck ... and if you're up in the middle of the night just imagine all the other mums up with you :).If you're second one is like mine I have found there is no rhyme or rhythem to her routines as such - with an energetic 3 year old about the place I think the activity level is always set to high and loud! Hardly conducive to good sleeping for the DD2. But we'll see how we go .. I'll keep you posted. I will probably put off being too strict about it initially as I have visitors, immunisations over next few days ..

[~Kimba~]

I've just been lent the book and hope that it can help me to stop my DS from waking me every 1-2 hours in the night. The funny thing is that I'm not even hoping for him to sleep through, I can handle 1-2 night wakings!

My biggest problem is getting him to settle and nap during the day and I was hoping the book might help with that but doesn't really tell me what to do about it. Saying 'just use your regular settling technique' doesn't help when nothing I do works right now - he won't feed to sleep any more even if I want him to, and now he screams even if I try to cuddle/ rock him to sleep because he knows what I'm up to! LOL

Anyway I am currently doing the sleep logs and putting together the plan so I am prepared to stick to it as diligently as I can to see how we go.

Good luck with it! I will be thinking of you while I'm getting up to resettle him 1000 times a night LOL.

[pookiesossige]

Sheena, Kimba: :hugs: :hugs:
We will get there...
Sheena, thanks for those kind words, it certainly feels lonely in the middle of the night at times!

Kimba, I know what you mean about napping- not that much in the book. But she does say not to be too worried about her sleeping with the boob (even if you're doing the PPO) using a sling, car ride, ect, because just getting any sort of sleep during the day is going to help with sleep at night!
But yeah... that doesn't help much if none of those ideas work to get bub off to sleep...

I am lucky with the napping, she has 1-2 hours twice a day, usually more like 1 hour. For the same reasons as you, Sheena- I have a 2.5 year old boy who shouts, screams, tantrums and throws toys at the mere suggestion that mummy is going to be settling his sister and could he please eat his snack and watch Thomas quietly and that mummy will be back soon.... :banghead:

[jungle_queen]

Hi there,

Thought I'd let you know how I went last night. As it turned out Ella went to sleep awake in her cot - even woke up 45 minutes later without a peep and went back to sleep herself.
But she woke as usual about 11pm so I did the whole PPO for the first time .. took about seven attempts, and then she did eventually settle in my arms and fall alseep there - which perhaps is not what should be happening! However it has given me the confidence to think she isn't actually hungry, but that she is using boobie to settle herself to sleep as even though she didn't have anywhere near what she would normal feed at that time she still slept for the next 3 hours and woke at her (current usual) 2am. Same again - took about 7-8 attempts and she settled in my arms and I took her back to her cot.
She woke at 4.45 and this time it took only 3 attempts and she settled in my arms. When she woke briefly at 5.30 I just had to pat her and when she woke at 6am it was clearly a "I'm up and ready for action hello" so I brought her into bed with me for her morning nurse and I got an extra hour of kip.
I find it difficult to gauge when I should try to the gently pull her off - I've given it a few minutes last night, all practice I guess. Will be trying it again tonight also.
What seemed to work best for me after a few attempts if I was sitting in my usual armchair was to actually stand up and gently pull her off and rock her .. that worked each time as soon I did it. Perhaps the different position worked?

Anyway so there we are ... today her day routine will be completely out (she's having a short 'trial'day at care) so we could be in for an interesting night. Plus the DH and I both forgot today is our 8th wedding anniversary (took my mum to ring to wish us a happy anniversary to be reminded!:D ) so we might take the whole brood out to dinner somewhere romantic (!) to celebrate ... again not something I should do on the plan, but I knew these few days would be a bit out ...

So ladies on the NCSS ... hope you are hanging in there ... that's my day one evening report complete. Over and out :)

[pookiesossige]

Sheena!! :yelclap: That's great! Well done you and well done bub, what a great start :yes:
I have trouble gauging when to remove the nipple too... when to stand up, when to place her in the cot ect.. I think that I leave her at the boob for too long all too often.
That extra hour of sleep makes the biggest difference, hey! Ariene has been waking up at 5 (yes, 5:eek: ) and NOT going back to sleep, even when cuddled up with mum in the big bed. Nope.
A good reason for me to go to bed in a few mins:yes:

[~Kimba~]

Sheena well done I wish I could say that I'd had that much success so quickly!

I've decided that I have to start with developing new sleep cues for my LO as his old cues (wrap, dummy, feed/ rock to sleep) don't work and in fact stress him out because he knows what they mean. Which means stressful battles every time I want to put him down for a nap or to bed. So right now I am giving him a little feed to settle him, then pulling off and keeping him on his back on my lap while I pat his tummy and stroke his nose and say "shhh, bedtime" over and over. Once he's 99% asleep I transfer him to the cot, at the moment it takes a few goes sometimes if he wakes and doesn't want to be there. Once I get him used to these cues and settling better then I'll start working on putting him into the cot awake, and see how we go :fingerscrossed: Once THAT's working, then I can start working on getting him to sleep better at night.

Good luck everyone, hope NCSS is working for you so far :)

[jungle_queen]

Well first night went OK - but as I thought the activities of last few days seems to have turned things around. Even though on Tuesday we got back home by 6pm that 30 min change meant Ella didn't sleep until 9pm - just couldn't get her down and then she woke every 45 mins until 1am :banghead: But then she slept for a few hours and after one round of PPO she went back down .. although I think she is falling asleep in my arms now.
She had immunisations Wednesday so was unsettled again in the evening, woke a few times but each time after just one or two pulls offs she was OK.
Last night I decided to go to bed early .. of course Ella was up not once but twice within 2.5 hours of me thinking I'd get an early night! Ha ha but then again she did setlle down quickly and was only up again once a few hours later - again she settled after taking her off the boob once. DH has holidays starting in two weeks .. I hope by then we might be able to start working on a settling routine that doesn't involve me at all (especially when he won't need to get up for work in the morning)
I know that I need to get her napping better ... but again that delightful 'problem' of loud, noisy 3 year olds who don't understand why she can't hang out with mewhle I try to get Ella to sleep again makes it difficult! YEsterday an hour of trying to settle her back down didn't work so just let her stay up .. see how we go again today. :fingerscrossed: MIght try going for a walk when nap time is due and see if she will sleep longer in the stroller ...
Kimba good luck!

[Aras Mum]

Love and Suport to you all
Its so great to hear you all working so hard.
We are too.
Ara is waking up 2-3 times a nite now after waking up every 30-45mins.
I started keeping her really active in the day and pushing out her need to feed...getting her to about 3-4 hours. I know it sounds like one of the books...but I'll never push her past her own hunger...if she's hungery I'll feed her.
Once I'd got her to go a little longer between feeds...and a lot of heavy reading with NCSS and the Sears. I've been getting Ara to go for about 3-4 hours at night as well.
It all falls down when teeth arrive but any method does...its just the way Baby's are.
I'm with ya
love

[pookiesossige]

WAHOO girls, we're winning!!
Ariene only wakes once or twice a night!! Down from 6-8 wakings (hourly)... I have my sleep back!!

Stick with it girls, the NCSS is the way to go... :hugs: :hugs: to you all who are doing it tough, you'll get there! I thought I never would and that I was going to be stuck with these shocking sleeping patterns for months...

More :hugs: :hugs:

[Proudofmy3Babies]

Hi,

I'm not sure what book everyone is talking about but I didnt want to start a new thread and I'm willing to try anything, I am SOOOO SICK of people telling me to do Controlled Crying!!!!

I'm a married mum but I spend a month at home on my own and a month with my husband. This past month that my husband has been away has been awful. Little Moo was just staying awake allllll night.!!!

I don't know what has happened this last two days but she has been sleeping through and having regular sleeps through the day, I pat her and rub her head to sleep though, and she has been in her own cot for the past few days for the first time, through the day I feed, we play and then she goes down and I pat and rub her head, I'm still settling every half hour or so through the day though.

She does have a dummy and is being bottle fed, can I use this method that you are all discussing or any other suggestions would be awsome, how do I get rid of the dummy and still get her to sleep???? If she looses the dummy she screams, unless she is in a really really deep deep sleep!!

Mel

[Bessie]

I'd like to know more too! I've been toying with the idea of doing cc but I don't really want to if there's kinder things which will work.
Eliana is 9 months and used to be a brilliant sleeper, but I have always settled her with boobies. Recently she had 3 teeth come through so she was up a lot in the night.
This is bubba number 3, I should know by now... but each bubba is different and when you're going through it its hard to think straight and know what to do!
BTW Is it really that bad to settle with a breast feed?