Fear of Epidural [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

DoulaFelicity

03-11-2005, 12:47

Hi babytoo,

Have you considered the option of a vaginal birth ("VBAC" - vaginal birth after Caesarean), rather than an elective repeat C Section? The one sure way to avoid all the nasties that interventions in labour and birth can and do create is to simply allow your body to birth normally and naturally, as it is so beautifully designed to do.

From your description of your previous birth, it sounds like you may have unfortunately encountered the "cascade of intervention" that, sadly, happens all too often in actively managed modern medicalised birth. ie: first intervention in natural process (in your case, induction) leads to complications, leads to second intervention in natural process (in your case, epidural) to deal with fallout from the first intervention, leads to even more complications with final dramatic intervention (in your case, emergency C Section). As you've experienced, epidurals (and, indeed, all interventions) have the ability to create some horrid side effects, and can lead to further complications in labour and increase your chance of a C Section. Induction was the primary culprit for your cascade of intervention.

A vaginal birth after a prior C Section is entirely possible. You may wish to check out some information on it, as well as induction, and epidurals:-

VBAC
www.birthrites.org
http://www.collegeofmidwives.org/Medical%20Board%2002/Dr_Chase_%20Addendum_Jan03.htm

Induction
http://www.birthlove.com/free/induction.html

Epidural
http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/episdrgs.html
http://www.healing-arts.org/mehl-madrona/mmepidural.htm

I would also recommend that you read "The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth" by Henci Goer, for clear, concise and unbiased evidence based information on every form of intervention in birth under the sun. A must read for every responsible birthing Mama. You may also wish to read "Silent Knife" by Nancy Wainer Cohen and Loise Estner - an invaluable tome on C Section and VBAC that I think you would find very pertinent to your situation.

The only way to a positive, empowered birthing experience is to arm yourself with knowledge, know what you want, learn to have faith in your powerful woman's body, and be prepared to be fully in control and responsible for your birth. The information I have provided here is not priveleged information, or difficult to find; the world is at your fingertips with Google; and there are so many wonderful books available just bursting with evidence based information.

Remember that the responsibility for ensuring you are well informed and in control of your birth does not rest with your care providers, but with you. And this is your birth; never be afraid to push harder, dig deeper, question practices that aren't based in evidence. :)

Best wishes for a beautiful birth. :)

JanetF

03-11-2005, 14:00

Wow that's a lot of stuff to have to deal with. Hugs to you. *hugs* Epidurals are scary things and most women have side effects of some sort. Felicity has given you some great links there :)

I'm a little puzzled too about why you'd have an ERC scheduled already given how much safer VBAC is. I can share the latest info on all that with you if you PM me your email addy. CARES-SA produced a great booklet about the latest research only recently.

In terms of avoiding induction due to P-E, there is a heap you can do! Some very simple changes to your diet and some gentle exercise are enough to keep it at bay for most women. The basic gist is NO sugar, plenty of healthy protein, lots of vegies, few carbohydrates, and lots of water. http://www.blueribbonbaby.org/index.html
Some moderate walking will also help. This will help you create an optimally healthy pregnancy, and have a lovely spontaneous birth at the end of it!
Preventing preeclampsia
http://www.empoweredchildbirth.com/articles/birth/whatifs/preeclampsia.html
http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/pih.html
http://midwiferytoday.com/enews/enews0232.asp

http://www.naturalchildbirth.org/natural/resources/prebirth/prebirth28.htm

Some counselling would also benefit you if you feel distress about your previous experience. The hospital should have provided you with debriefing but you can also get that through your local birth support group. Let me know how I can help.

madvoice

03-11-2005, 15:51

I'll probably get slammed for this but if you, for whatever reason decide to have a C-Section and don't want the fear of epidural have considered going under general? Yes, I know that you don't see your child straight away and you wake up a bit groggy but it is an alternative to having an epidural. I was PETRIFIED of having an epidural and went down the general path. To give you an idea I was in theatre at 2pm, Raleigh was born at 2.15pm, I was in recovery at 2.45pm, in my room and bfing at 3pm. :)

babytoo

03-11-2005, 16:15

Thanks everyone and thanks madvoice....I am going to ask about having a general and see if my ob can get hold of my previous records (he was the ob) so should be able to see what happened. I would love nothing more than to do it all naturally but don't think I have it in me :-( I'm not entirely fussed if I miss the birth but just want to ensure the safety of the baby and myself more than anything. I know its an amazing thing to happen and very empowering but one that I will not experience. I will endeavour to read some more info...so thank you for those links

JanetF

03-11-2005, 16:25

If you want to protect the safety of you and your baby, you'll choose to VBAC. ERC is simply more dangerous because it's a major operation and those are dangerous.
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/csrisks.htm

This is a great article on planning a positive caesarean including thoughts of many women on their GA c-sec. I posted a heap of c-sec birth plans a while ago and there are great links to more on this site.
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/csgood.htm

I hope you find your journey a great learning experience that enhances and empowers your parenting as well as your birth. :)

samuelboy

03-11-2005, 20:00

Hi babytoo

If you are set on a c-section then that's what you should have.

I had an emergency c-section and I had a spinal, from what I have read it's pretty much the same except it kicks in much quicker so this probably wouldn't be any help for you.

Talk to your ob and have a general if that's what you feel is best, it's your decision.

madvoice

03-11-2005, 22:37

This is a great article on planning a positive caesarean including thoughts of many women on their GA c-sec. I posted a heap of c-sec birth plans a while ago and there are great links to more on this site.
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/csgood.htm

I hope you find your journey a great learning experience that enhances and empowers your parenting as well as your birth. :)

I had a look at the site you posted and was horrified to read some of the responses. Fair enough that things are different for each individual but I was rather annoyed that there were NO positive responses WHATSOEVER! It made me feel very angry to see everything portrayed in a negative light. BTW JanetF this is in no means directed at you its just my personal response to what I read and how it affected me.

I had a VERY positive outcome from c-section under GA. It was still a very big surprise for me even though I didn't experience labour or was there to witness her being born. If I have another child I'd do the same thing over again. No question about it. Yes, I did have moments where I felt a little surreal about it all without the 'natural' birth but today when I look in my little girl's eyes, the smiles I get back are much more important to me :)

Caitlin's Mum

04-11-2005, 09:38

Hi Babytoo, I had my second caesar in July and I couldn't feel my legs afterwards for a few hours. I remember trying to wiggle my toes and it was the wierdest feeling not being able to. I'd say the epidural is stronger with a caesar because they don't want you to feel anything at all while they are taking the baby out. I thought it would be normal not to feel anything down there for a few hours after an operation. Anyway, I hope everything goes well for you - good luck :)

leabdea

04-11-2005, 10:59

"How did a magnificent rescue operation become such a common way of being born?" Michel Odent

There is no doubt that caesarean surgery is becoming more and more safe. And all of us have friends who's children have been born this way with seemingly no negative effects, as well as those of you who have shared your personal experiences of caesarean birth.

Some questions arise. And some of these have very eloquently been raised by a french Obstetrician, Michel Odent, in his book titled The Caesarean.

One of them I have quoted above.

Some others are...

"What do we know about the long term consequences of being born by caesarean?"

"What do we know about the long term consequences of giving birth by caesarean?"

"What do mother and baby miss out on by not having a vaginal birth?"

What is the future of a civilization born by caesarean?"

One sad effect of caesareans becoming so common that touches so many women's lives (both now and for future generations) is that it makes us feel like our bodies don't work properly.

The truth is, though, that our bodies work! As women, our bodies are designed perfectly to grow a baby and birth that baby.

Unfortunately, the way the maternity system is set up in Australia at the moment, many of us are cared for during pregnancy and birth by doctors whose primary training is as surgeons. And so they tend to approach birth and women's bodies as a risk - and a baby as something that needs to be rescued. And the easiest way they know how to 'rescue' a baby is by surgery.

The philosphy of the medical way to deal with birth will escalate the number of babies born by caesarean, whereas midwifery philosophy is that womens' bodies and birth are a natural process that works. And midwives understand how to be with us in a way that supports and encourages us and trusts our bodies.

What does this mean for an individual woman? First we make choices about how our baby is born. We can choose our caregiver with this in mind. We can choose someone to care for us who is most likely to suggest surgery at the slightest indication. Or we can choose someone who is going to honour our body and our ability to birth.

Labour and birth are devalued by the male dominated obstetric profession. They don't give us information about the hormones that are involved in natural birth and why they are very important for both bub and mum. They don't explain the way a baby's intestinal flora is established and how a surgical birth means bub is more likely to first meet the microbes that are in the air of a high-tech hospital and those transferred by the staff - rather than the ones from mum which bub already has immunity to. They don't mention labour and birth as a rite of passage that helps us, as mothers, prepare physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually for mothering. The process of surrendering to labour and birth is not mentioned as a potential for personal and spiritual growth, nor as an influence of our confidence as mothers ("I know that I gave everything and more to birth this baby so I know I will be able to give everything and more to this child as s/he needs me").

So much to discuss, too long a post already.

The bottom line is your body does work...you do have it in you to have a normal labour and birth.....the maternity system has very likely failed you and continues to fail you.....you can take responsibility for your birth and seek out the people who will affirm your ability rather than devalue it.

Have a natural birth. It's the most empowering and profoundly creative thing you will ever do in your life.

JanetF

04-11-2005, 11:23

Have a natural birth. It's the most empowering and profoundly creative thing you will ever do in your life.

Yay team!! Hooray for women's birthing potential!!!! :D :D :D

04-11-2005, 12:35

Hi Babytoo

I have had 2 c/sections now and have had very positive outcomes. Healthy babies and quick and easy recoveries.

I too had gestational diabetes and my first c/s was due to a failed induction. Healthwise, I would have been ok to contnue, but I had very little fluid, so they decided it would be better for my daughter to arrive 3 weeks early than possibly suffer complications.

I had no problems that time as I had a spinal and was given the patient controlled morphine which I found unnecessary as the panadol and voltaren were enough to cover my pain.

My second c/s was at 36 weeks as my son was huge and I was carrying 6 litres of excess fluid - who said every pregnancy is different? - I totally agree! I had gestational diabetes again and really, in the circumstances had no option but to have another c/section. This time I had a combined spinal and epidural with spinal morphine given (my c/s was hip to hip due to my son's size - 13lb 2oz) and this was the one I had problems with.

The spinal morphine caused me to vomit for the first 24hours - this may have been the cause of your vomiting? Might be worth discussing with you doc this time. The epidural left me with a stinking headache for 2 weeks - next time I will be asking for a spinal only!

But besides being in minor discomfort from the epidural and the morphine afterwards, I was able to get around almost as well as normal within 24 hours of birth and was easily getting up and down off the floor playing with my daughter the next day.

It is different for everyone, but I found that I was a lot calmer the second time as I knew what was happening. It was more of a novelty that my legs were numb the second time ... it was almost a game to see when I could first wiggle my toes!

I have since had a d & c under spinal anaesthetic (I was too sick to have a general) and found that my reaction was even calmer for a third time.

If you are really anxious and think that you will not be happy being awake, discuss it with your doc and let your feelings be known. No matter how your baby comes into this world, one of the most important things is that Mum is happy and not under undue stress as bub will need you from early on to be calm and able to give your full attention.

OK, so natural birth is the ideal, but not everything in our lives is ideal!

Girls, if you are so anti c/sections, maybe you should either avoid the c/section threads or learn to choose how you word your posts a bit better. They do come across as condemning and I can see how they will upset people who are already upset about what is going to happen to them. Good on you for being passionate about natural births ... just please support the people who have decided to, or are required to give birth any other way, as in the end it is the mother and baby which counts and if this makes for a happier family, then so be it!

I am not denying that we need all of the info on natural births and vbac's as yes, in most cases this is the better option.

Not everyone can avoid a c/section ... I can testify to this.

When you have complications like gestational diabetes, sometimes you have no choice as for your and the baby's health, your baby is going to have to be born early. And, as I have previously experienced ... if your body is not ready to give birth naturally (under induction) then it will not co-operate! I had 5 days in a labour ward waiting to get to even 1cm (which I never did!) after labouring gently all of that time before I ended up having my c/section. Do you know how demoralising it is to hear everyone else getting on with delivering their babies and you are sitting their feeling more and more like a failure with every hour that passes with no progress?

I am not anti natural birth - this is what I wished for with all of my heart! I perservered with the induction attempt for so long as I wanted to bring my child into the world the best way I knew how. I felt like a failure straight after my c/section as I was the only one in my family (extended included) who had "failed" to give birth naturally - most of my family having achieved birth without the aid of any drugs or intervention. I had several people afterwards condemning me for chosing to have the c/section - I was given the choice to try induction again in a week, but it seemed contrary to what the doctors had been saying about the risks to my daughters health. As a result, this combined with an inability to breastfeed (physical problems, not just giving up on it!) made me feel like the worst mother and that I didn't deserve to have my beautiful baby.

What ever way your baby comes into the world ... just enjoy being a Mum and do the best you can do to ensure a safe and loving future for your little one!

leabdea

04-11-2005, 13:27

I was hoping my post was encouraging to women and questioning the medical model of caring for normal, healthy pregnant and birthing women.

I am so glad that caesarean birth is available to the women who need it to ensure a healthy mother and healthy baby. It truly does save lives.

My passion is to provide information so that we, as women, can make our choices in an informed way - not as a result of being given biased info and scared into decisions by a dr who has an agenda which doesn't include the mother as a whole person with a body that has amazing abilities.

So...without any intention of being condemning in the slightest....just in the interest of sharing information that many do not get to hear...here is a quote from Ina May Gaskin, the most respected and famous midwife in the U.S.....she has this to say about GD...

"Gestational diabetes (GD) is not really a disease. Rather, it is a higher level of blood sugar than average during pregnancy, as determined by a glucose tolerance test (GTT). GD differs from diabetes mellitus in that GD goes away after the baby is born. Diabetes mellitus does not. Many doctors recommend this test for all pregnant women, to be performed between twenty-four and twenty-eight weeks of gestation. The test, unfortunately, is not very reliable. Between fifty and seventy percent of women, if retested, will have a different result than they got from the first test. The best evidence we have says there is no treatment for GD, either with diet or with insulin, that improves the outcome for mothers or their babies. In short, the anxiety that is often produced by this test simply isn't worth the information gained from it. Sometimes, when the test is positive, you may be urged to undergo further expensive tests and treatments with no proven benefit.
Beyond the routine testing with urine dipsticks at prenatal visits, my partners and I use a little device called a glucometer to help us identify the women who can benefit from dietary changes if we find that their blood sugar levels are varying too widely. The glucometer is a finger-poker that measures the sugar level in a drop of blood. We use it when we notice several of the following symptoms at twenty-eight weeks or thereafter:

fast weight gain
feeling "funny" or "dizzy" after meals
constant thirst
craving for sugar
family history of diabetes
previous large baby

We get a glucometer reading fifteen to thirty minutes after breakfast and again one hour later. We have encountered a few cases in which a woman's glucose was high (250) within that time range and back to normal (120 or less) within an hour. These are the women who feel funny after a meal and whose high sugar reading wouldn't be detected by a GTT. We usually find that they have been eating something that they don't tolerate well during pregnancy - sugar and white flour, for instance. In the short term, the best way for the woman to bring down the sugar level in her blood is to get up and exercise if possible. For the rest of her pregnancy, her best bet is to completely eliminate white flour, pasta, other starchy foods, and sugar from her diet."

Ina May's Guide to Childbirth by Ina May Gaskin

Yes, we women need to choose what we feel is right for us and our baby. And yes, we need to take responsibility for our health and our baby's health and get as much info from as many sources as we can....because drs don't give us the full picture.

I just want to pass on the information and encouragement I'm grateful for someone giving to me early in my birthing journey.

hugs

JanetF

04-11-2005, 13:27

I had a caesarean with my son. Do I feel condemned? No, should I? I made a choice based on what was before me and I live with it. Are caesareans the optimal way for babies to be born and mothers to give birth? No. Funny how when we feel ok with our decisions we're a lot less threatened by information. No one has said anything rude or judgemental about the women who post. We have discussed the wellresearched and proven reality of caesarean, from a variety of experiences, in response to a good question. Caesareans are great for some women but for plenty they're not. It's great that you've had good experiences but if all women had great experiences there'd be no flourishing birth trauma scene like there is in Australia. So obviously it's not working for everyone.

This isn't a "only support for caesarean forum", it's a forum about caesareans so I'll continue to post, thanks.

DoulaFelicity

04-11-2005, 13:28

Natural birth is not an ideal; it is simply normal, the way it is done, and the way we are designed to birth. Check out the quote in my sig; it really says it all. :)

If the safety of Mama and babe is truly paramount, then the birthing woman will do everything in her power to avoid a C Section. Simple. It's not the safest or the best thing for the baby or the Mother. This is not a judgement statement; it's merely fact.

There is a great book called "Mother's Intention: How Belief Shapes Birth" by Kim Wildner. It's all about how our beliefs (and fears) dictate our choices; and how we need to "get real" and really, truly face the decisions we make for what they are, and take full responsibility for them. I'd highly recommend it. It certainly taught me to face and be accountable for my beliefs and choices in regards to birthing. :)

madvoice

04-11-2005, 14:14

Hi Babytoo

OK, so natural birth is the ideal, but not everything in our lives is ideal!

Girls, if you are so anti c/sections, maybe you should either avoid the c/section threads or learn to choose how you word your posts a bit better. They do come across as condemning and I can see how they will upset people who are already upset about what is going to happen to them. Good on you for being passionate about natural births ... just please support the people who have decided to, or are required to give birth any other way, as in the end it is the mother and baby which counts and if this makes for a happier family, then so be it!

I am not denying that we need all of the info on natural births and vbac's as yes, in most cases this is the better option.

Thank you for being able to word what I wanted to write but could not. JanetF, some of the things that you have posted (links included) have been rather negative. Yes, you have had a c-section but does that vilify you from the way that some of your posts have been worded? I feel sorry for the woman who originally posted this thread looking for reassurance when she's been bombarded with pretty much everything OTHER than what she's asked for. It saddens me.

Chickadee

04-11-2005, 14:27

I didn't have a problem with the epidural until after my son was born, I started freaking out because I couldn't feel or move my legs...

so when you first got the epidural, 15 hours before the birth, you could feel and move your legs? I think the level of blocking and numbing is more for a planned c/s than with an epidural meant for pain control in labour - in labour you still need to be able to move your major muscles to push. So perhaps they topped you up when you went for the c/s.

The reason I ask is that I couldn't feel or move mine from the time I got the epidural. I had a planned caesarian, and I won't say why cause really it doesn't matter, net effect was that I had no labour at all. I don't know exactly what sort of epidural or block I was given, but straight afterwards the anaesthesiologist checked to see if I could feel my feet, I can't remember if he pricked a toe or just put something cold against them. So I knew well before I was moved onto the table and the op started that my legs were out of my control. I don't know if that would make a difference for you and help to avoid a later panic in the middle of being stitched back up or in recovery.

I can't remember when I started getting feeling back. It's all a bit vague as I was overwhelmed by emotion at the time. But I had my c/s around 3pm and I'm sure I had feeling back within 3 or 4 hours. Though I didn't try getting out of bed for around 20 hours.

Mamaduke

08-11-2005, 23:04

To Janet and the doula,
Why don't you go and practice your vagina chanting somewhere else!
How dare you try and tell women, women's who's medical histories you do not know, what is best for them!
I hope you two had your babies in a nice quiet place in the bush as nature truly intended! If not, you're both hypocrites!
My first son was born after 13 hours of labour and finally his heart rate dropped and was delivered by emergency c/s - had I just battled on and thought about my needs to give birth 'naturally' he would have died - and for what, so I could stand up on your soap box and say well it is nature's way!!!
I was told by a specialist that my pelvis is too small for a baby to deliver vaginally -I am so grateful that I live in a day and age where these situations are diagnosed and alternatives given.
My second son was also a c/s and under g/a as the spinal blocks didn't work and I could feel the knife cutting into me.

How dare you two try and take away the pleasure of giving birth by your scare-mongering and grandstanding about vbacs.
Sometimes it is just not an option for women - and you two nobodys shouldn't be making women feel bad that they either can't or won't deliver vaginally!

My boys will not give a crap how they were born in 30 years time - when I'm sitting at their wedding receptions and my sons make a speech I'm pretty sure they aren't going to say, "Well, my life would have turned out better had my mother had me vaginally"

Why is it pro-choice when you end a life...
but you're made to feel sub-human by your choice to birth a life!

I suggest that janet and the doula find somewhere else to preach from - your kind of rantings really grate on my nerves! I came to this section to give support to the mums who were having or have had c/s - only for my time to be wasted by your nonsense!

I am a fantastic mummy to two beautiful boys, and it doesn't make an iota of difference how I gave birth to them, and no one is going to make me feel guilty for not having a 'natural' birth!

Oh, and guess what - I didn't breastfeed either...what a monster I am, I guess you two would put me right up there with the woman who attacked her baby with an axe (only with less sympathy)!

Carly
mama to..
Jesse 4
Lucas 16 mths
-my gorgeous c/s boys!!!!!!

Mummabear

08-11-2005, 23:33

From your description of your previous birth, it sounds like you may have unfortunately encountered the "cascade of intervention" that, sadly, happens all too often in actively managed modern medicalised birth. ie: first intervention in natural process (in your case, induction) leads to complications, leads to second intervention in natural process (in your case, epidural) to deal with fallout from the first intervention, leads to even more complications with final dramatic intervention (in your case, emergency C Section). As you've experienced, epidurals (and, indeed, all interventions) have the ability to create some horrid side effects, and can lead to further complications in labour and increase your chance of a C Section. Induction was the primary culprit for your cascade of intervention.

How, on God's green earth did you deduct that load of poppy **** from....

First time around, I was induced due to Gestational Diabetes, I then had high blood pressure so was put on an epidural quite early on and remained on that for about 15 hours until they performed an emergency caesar!

Were you there? Are you privy to her medical records? You seem to have made quite a few assumptions, based on what.... your ability to 'google' as you put it. Damn, ease up on the poor woman.

Did I read incorrectly or did Babytoo ask for information from others that had used epidurals to share their experiences with her or perhaps even someone in the medical profession who has knowledge of epidurals... hang on, let me check...

.....has anyone else had the same experience or can tell me how long after an elective the epidural wore off??

Nope - seems I read it right. No mention of "can you please bombard me with research on VBAC and totally disrespect the decision I have made, turning this thread I started by which to seek SUPPORT from others into a land mine"

I pose this question yet again.... why do you ladies insist on entering into threads where women have clearly asked for support from others and feel the need to negate their decisions or experiences with your 'research'. Why can't you just chill out with the bombardment. We all know you're here - if we want your 'research' or links to your beloved websites then we'll ask for it. But if we just ask for non-judgemental support it's because that's what we need. Have you ever stopped to think about how what you are saying is affecting some of us. I know you are not evil women out to rid the world of others differing from yourselves - do you realise that something that one of you ladies posted left me sobbing on the shower floor in the fetal position feeling like a failure as a woman and a mother. Just stop and think ladies. And chill out.

Chickadee

09-11-2005, 07:12

NewMum. I agree with most of what you've said and respect that you want to make sure this thread is focussed on what Babytoo actually asked. That is often a problem, that threads get sidetracked into larger issues and debates.

But, I will point out that in the initial responses to Babytoo, the info provided by Janet and Felicity on the options of VBAC were, I think, good ones and appropriate. They were short, non-preaching and informative to a woman who may not have realised that she had other options besides a c/s. I don't always agree with some of the specifics in their words or links, but all information is power and we should decide for ourselves what is appropriate to us or not.

A lot of info on VBAC and c/s and gestational diabetes has now been provided and I think it should now be left for Babytoo (or others) to ask for more advice on either planning a VBAC or a positive c/s. I don't want to put anyone off posting their opinions or offering advice, but please all try to keep it directly relevant to the original question. Lets not turn this into a fight over c/s vs natural.

Mummabear

09-11-2005, 07:46

But, I will point out that in the initial responses to Babytoo, the info provided by Janet and Felicity on the options of VBAC were, I think, good ones and appropriate. They were short, non-preaching and informative to a woman who may not have realised that she had other options besides a c/s

Fair point MarthaM, but in all seriousness why does everyone assume that everyone else on this site is ill-informed about most things. I am yet to meet a woman who doesn't know that she has the option of VBAC, whilst she may not know all the info, most women know enough to know whether it is something they want to research further. I just get so tired of reading posts by people who assume that everyone else has absolutely no idea about anything and it is their sworn duty to inform them of every option available, whether they have asked for it or not. All I'm saying is can we just stick to reading the post, assessing the question asked and then provide relevant support, not read the post, assume the person posting lives in a cave and knows nothing of her options and then turn the thread into something that it was never meant to be.

DoulaFelicity

09-11-2005, 07:56

So...read the post, assume the person knows everything and that our system, which fails so many women, has actually championed them in telling them everything they need to know (despite the fact that every day I hear from tens of women who have been failed by the system and are miserable through lack of information), and refrain from posting anything we personally truly believe may be of assistance to someone?

Only certain forms of support, and certain opinions, are welcome? If you feel you may be of help - don't say anything anyway, in case someone doesn't like it?

I think I'll keep offering actual evidence based information and my own definition of support anyway - but thanks for your opinion. :D If somebody isn't interested in evidence or research, it's fairly simple to just skip reading it. If they are interested (and lots of women here have been), then that's absolutely wonderful.

There is more than one way of offering support and more than one way of thinking. It's the original poster's right and responsibility to draw what she wants from the varying thoughts, comments, and information offered.

How lucky we are to have such a wealth of varied opinions and knowledge at our fingertips. I know I appreciate it every day. :)

Mummabear

09-11-2005, 08:32

To assume that a woman has limited knowledge and to assume that we are all raving idiots with no idea are two totally different things.

Geez, if we had to skip all the crap that is written that no one has asked to see, even after being ignored when asked to stop it then no one would bother logging on :D :D :D

Have a fabulous day :D

Bronwyn

13-11-2005, 17:51

Hi Babytoo
Go the for general. I did and don't regret it one little bit, what does it matter how little one gets out or whether you are awake or asleep. I had my daughter at 5.28pm and was awake by 6pm with my ob holding my hand telling me "he'd" got me a little girl, I laugh now cause it sounded like he'd made her.
The only thing I asked of my husband was that he didn't start ringing ppl until I'd met my baby girl (which didn't happen until 7.30pm).
If an epidural is really freaking you out (and you are gamer than me to have at least tried one) go for the general. My little one scored lower in the Apgar but 12 months later she is doing everything very normally and actually a few things little bit ahead of other friends bubs so that hasn't affected her.
Don't spend the rest of your pregnancy panicking about it, go the general.

Carlyb
What a woman, game enough to reveal that you didn't breastfeed. Well I shall reveal too and cop the flack with you. I didn't want to breastfeed and was worried about the nurses giving me heaps, WRONG, in fact they organised for me to have the tablets (what ever they are called) to stop my milk from coming in and I didn't get any milk at all....much more civilised I thought and because I'd had my c/s under general my husband was able to feed our little princess straight away and she was starving.
All this about "breast is best", well my little princess is doing just fine.

madvoice

13-11-2005, 22:29

Bronwyn, you've got a lot of guts to speak out the way you did and I admire that :)

I was also an elective c/section mum who chose the general. As for apgar scores, my DD came in at 9 to start with and was 9.5 on the second round so I have no regrets whatsoever.

JanetF

14-11-2005, 11:52

I've just spent 2 hours counselling a woman who was given a general because she is so traumatised by it. She has no idea what happened during her surgery, and her baby was washed and dressed before she met him. It's great that some of us have good experiences with that but in my experience that is the minority view. I hope that all mamas will keep sharing to expand our knowledge of this.

Bronwyn

15-11-2005, 05:57

Janet
If my gorgeous ob hadn't done a general for me, you would have spent a lifetime counselling me to get over it. I think the person you've just counselled has issues with the doctor (I trusted my ob with my life) not the general, I've had friends tell me that they can't remember what went on during labour and they had no drugs at all.
There is just no way that I could have gone with an epidural.

Madvoice
Thanks for you words of encouragement, a general was the only way to go for me and you don't sound like you regret it either. Well done.

Babytoo
Hope our words of advice help you make your decision.

babytoo

03-12-2005, 08:27

Mummabear

04-12-2005, 16:20

Hi Babytoo,

I'm so sorry you were scared off of your own thread by others that felt it their right to disrespect you and your decision. Let's hope that you get nothing but support from now on.

I'm afraid that I can't offer you any experience based advice as I didn't have a c/s. I did have an epi though. Is there anyone else at the hospital that you can talk to? Did they explain to you why DH can't be in there? My girlfriend is a midwife and she explained to me that because people look, well.... dead.... under a general it is too distressing for the partners to be in there. As much as they think they might be prepared it is apparently a rather intense experience to view a loved one under a general. But as far as I know he can be right outside waiting for bubba.

Sorry I can't be of any real help - but I'm sending you a tonne of cyber support to help you make your decision.

Good luck.

Larissa :)

Mamaduke

04-12-2005, 16:55

Anyway, I would really love to hear from more people who had a general instead of an epidural.....I had a c-section education yesterday at the hospital which really helped me out but I still have a feeling of wanting to be knocked out for the whole thing. I have been told that my husband wouldnt be able to be there for it which is a real negative for me but I am petrified of the epidural even though I have had one before. I think because it wasnt planned last time, I didnt have time to get worked up about it but this time I know and it is really getting to me

Hello,
I'll put my hand up because I've had both. I personally felt that with the epidural, it was the worst pain I have ever experienced (and that was after 13 odd hours of labour!) Second time around I was advised to have a c/s with a spinal block instead of the epidural. It took 4 spinal blocks (all excruciating I might add) and everything was going fine until they were just about to get my baby out when I felt the knife cutting me (you wanted the truth!!!) Then it was 'action stations' - Rob (my DH) was told to leave and the next thing I knew I was waking up with Lucas laying on my chest and DH next to me - as soon as Lucas was born Rob was able to be with him and stayed with him the whole time. I ended up developing a spinal headache after the 4 spinal blocks and had to go back to surgery to have blood taken from my arm and injected into my spine (like I hadn't had enough of the bloody needles in the back!) Apart from my throat being sore after the g/a I think the hardest part was lying in recovery by myself and really just wanting to get back to my room to be with bubs.
As for next time (yes, there will be a next time) I am
NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
going to have an epidural or spinal block - keep those bloody needles away from my back thank you very much! I'm doing alot of research into VBAC (thank you Janetf), I am finding that there is alot of evidence by midwives etc but not alot from ob's themselves - call me old fashioned but I look to a doctor for answers! I'm still not convinced that this is the safe option - I don't want to put my baby in any danger whatsoever, and after already having an emergency c/s I know how frightening it is when all and sundry come racing into the room and start poking and prodding at you. If I don't feel comfortable with VBAC I will go under again - I couldn't stand the pain and just talking about epidurals and spinal blocks sends shivers up my spine (pardon the pun!)
I, like you was petrified of the epidural - don't do it to yourself - I remember sitting on the operating table and as soon as that cold liquid was put on my back for the spinal block I started to cry, my toes started to curl and I was really upset!
Good luck with your decision and I hope my story helps you make the right decision for you and your baby
Carly

Mummabear

04-12-2005, 21:27

Sorry to stick my head in here again :rolleyes: but I just wanted to say what an awesome post that was Carly. So open and honest. I had shivers reading it. Good on you for listening to your body and knowing yourself.

Babytoo - I hope you get a lot more 'life' stories like Carly's. Let us know how you're going with your decision and if there is anything else that we can do to help you.

Worm'sMum

05-12-2005, 07:34

OK, so natural birth is the ideal, but not everything in our lives is ideal!

Girls, if you are so anti c/sections, maybe you should either avoid the c/section threads or learn to choose how you word your posts a bit better. They do come across as condemning and I can see how they will upset people who are already upset about what is going to happen to them. Good on you for being passionate about natural births ... just please support the people who have decided to, or are required to give birth any other way, as in the end it is the mother and baby which counts and if this makes for a happier family, then so be it!

I am not denying that we need all of the info on natural births and vbac's as yes, in most cases this is the better option.

What ever way your baby comes into the world ... just enjoy being a Mum and do the best you can do to ensure a safe and loving future for your little one!

I agree Kyra. I, in no way feel guilty or condemned for having an emerg c/section with my beautiful bubba. But I can see how some people are made to/or just feel guilty for not being about to give birth 'naturally' or less of a women. I know that in my case it was the best option for me and the health of my baby by having a c/section and I haven't yet decided which way I will go with our next one - but I will make that decision based on how I feel and the health of the baby. The best birthing experience is when the mother feels the most comfortable about her birthing CHOICE.

Babytoo, discuss your fears with your doc and hopefully he/she can help you decide the best way to go about it. I didn't have the same 'none feeling of legs' as you, but I can see from this thread that it is not uncommon.I wish you all the best in your decision and know it'll be all worth it when you see your beautiful little baby.

Good Luck! :)

Worm'sMum

05-12-2005, 07:52

Hi and thanks everyone for the responses! I didnt jump on this thread for a while as it got pretty full on with info and stuff, when as some of you said, all I wanted was reassuring. Anyway, I would really love to hear from more people who had a general instead of an epidural.....I had a c-section education yesterday at the hospital which really helped me out but I still have a feeling of wanting to be knocked out for the whole thing. I have been told that my husband wouldnt be able to be there for it which is a real negative for me but I am petrified of the epidural even though I have had one before. I think because it wasnt planned last time, I didnt have time to get worked up about it but this time I know and it is really getting to me

Babytoo, I'm sorry to hear you were scared off your own thread! :( I can sympathise with your fear as (although I'm not yet preg) I fear the epidural too, I had a great experience last time but like you it wasn't planned, so the thinking about it puts more fear time in it doesn't it! :) If you really feel that you want to have a general, maybe discuss with your doc about your husband being just out the door? That way he can be with the baby as soon as it is born. You will be out of it so won't know if he's in the room, but maybe knowing that he is just outside and with baby straight away, might put your mind at rest? I'm not sure? But just a suggestion. :) As I said before, good luck with whatever decision you decide on. :D