Question for Dads..

[danielle13]

Hi all,

Just wondering if you could give me some insight. :detective:

Before our daughter was born 5 months ago, my partner was the most considerate, helpful, kind person I'd ever met. He used to do nice things for me all the time, used to compliment me no matter how rough I was looking around the edges, and used to help with housework etc, no questions asked.
But ever since dd was born, he's turned into an arrogant, lazy, self-centred f*ckwit, basically.. He only helps around the house if I hassle and hassle and eventually blow up at him, I don't remember the last nice thing he did for me, and he just shows no respect or support.

I'd like to know, is this a somewhat "normal" reaction to fatherhood? Is there some secret guy's code to say that once your wife/partner has a baby she no longer counts? Or is he just a d*ck?

Thanks

[Kizmet]

i think its somewhat normal...otherwise my DH was as abnormal! He is now a lot better after I spoke to him about it. He felt like DD had taken over me. My body was hers not his, my mind was hers not his and we never got time alone so he sort of morphed into supreme unhappiness. Now Abby is a little more independant he's lots better although still have to hassle him to do housework....think that one is just a male thing!

[poodysmum]

Sorry but my husband said he's just being a fool! Hope it all works out for you:fingerscrossed: :hugs:

Alli

[susiehomemaker]

What is it with this sudden morphing into lazy/disconnected twat? I think our partners must be drinking from the same well or something.....
DH was great all through the pregnancy- he could not do enough for me. Now if I ask for him to do anything (ie, look after DD for even 5 minutes while I put something on for dinner) he is so resentfull and all "Ive been at work all day/all week... ra ra ra" as if I have been doing nothing all day. He just doesnt seem to get the same kick out of being a parent that I do. It makes me v sad- esp for DD. Its not like I pushed him into having kids either- he has been preasuring me for years!

[cased]

I dont believe it is a normal reaction at all. I think you need to kick his ***:p

But I do think that males tend to have a harder time 'giving up' the selfish side we all have when kids come along, I am by no mean justifing his actions.

I think a gentle reminder of his responsibilties may be in order and if that does not work... my favourite quote from Boys in the Hood...

'Any boy can put it in, but only a Man can look after what comes out' :laughing: (not sure if that is word for word lol. been to many years)

Hope it works out

[Mr. Big]

It might also have something to do with more responsibilities he now has outside of the home. When Abby was born i turned into a typical new father but a lot of it was it wasn't just me and kate anymore, i now needed to make sure i could supply enough money to get food, nappies, health, happiness etc.
Plus even though we are around of a night 'trying' to sleep with a newborn, we don't realise how hard it is for a FULL day with them..... i suggest going out for one day and leaving the bub with DH for a day. It may teach him that life at home is as stressful as life at work.
Hopefully things get better.:fingerscrossed:

[susiehomemaker]

Mr Big - Leaving the bub with them for a day definately works. But for my hubby the results only last for about a week! Thats not to say that it wouldnt work for others though ;-)

[bambino]

OMG!!!

It was only last night that I went ape at DH for the same things!!

DS is 5.5 weeks and DH has somewhat
"disconnected" himself from us.
Whilst pregnant (and prior also) he was a fantastic most loveable and generous person. We discussed having a baby, baby has arrived and BOOM a complete 360 degree turnaround.

I believe he feels left out as I am BF and the bonding DS and I get out of that is unique. He helps (sometimes) with nappy changing and burping, but only when it suits him. Otherwise he is hibernating in the garage, on the computer from the time he comes home from work until bed time, or just fluffing about.

I have to ask DH to watch DS while I shower or get dinner ready and that sometimes is a task for him. I even get the "not now i'm busy" story (like ebay can't wait for 2 minutes!!)

:ecomcity: This could go on forever but i'm glad it seems to be most DH's are like this with newborns. Hopefully it'll change once DS gets older, then he can pass daddy the screwdriver and help fix the cars!!

[Mister Noodle]

Jate and Abby had the right of it, IMHO.

Being a (working) father is in many ways the most supremely unrewarding job in the world.

Not the hardest, or the most demanding / gruelling - that's fulltime motherhood, no question, hands down.

But when it comes to the sheer cost/benefit ratio - we lose, bigtime.

Ferinstance:

I get home after a long day, and immediately start dealing with drool, spew, poo and screaming, running baths, making dinner (which always burns / dries out due to some uscheduled emergency), stuffing it down in the 3 minutes until he wakes up again, tiptoeing around and clearing up / showering / etc when he finally goes down for the night, in a continual state of emergency, like we're hiding from the gestapo or something.

My wife is long gone, replaced by a perpetually stressed-out, exhausted roommate and her live-in tyrannical boss.

My sex life is a distant, mocking memory, there isn't even any time that we can just sit together without our minds on something else. There's no emotional space to stretch out in - the only connection left is shared stress, exhaustion and sympathy.

My kid isn't a person yet, he's a collection of issues, problems, demands and contingencies, all wrapped up in one smelly soggy bundle that can't ever be put down or left alone for one second.

I know, it's like that *all day* at home with him, and a lot worse - and I'm not saying you have it easier. Oh, hell no, I wouldn't want your job. That's not my point.

The thing is, you at least get to bond with the damn thing. You've got the hardest job in the world, but at least you're getting paid for it (however insufficiently). You've fallen in love with your child, you're developing a relationship with him, you've got someone that loves you back, and someone that every day learns something new, and you're doing a job that you can be proud of, every day.

I don't get any of those things. I've given up all that I had and all that I loved, for precisely no return - and I'm not even achieving anything in the process.

Sure, it'll get easier as he gets older, what I contribute will start to become a creative influence, not just emergency maintenance. Sure, he'll start to know me and love me, and make everything worth it. Sure, as things settle down, I'll have a family that I'm part of, instead of one that I just work for.

But not yet. Not for a long, long time - the light at the end of that tunnel isn't even visible yet.

At least if I had some miserable job on the other side of the world, I'd be allowed to be lonely and depressed without attracting censure and scorn, and I wouldn't have the shadows of all that I loved and all that made life worthwhile taunting me every single day while staying just out of reach.

I don't begrudge a gram of it of course - this is something I went into with my eyes wide open, and a price I chose to pay, because it's more than worth it in the long run.

But in the short term - it's all on credit. Every speck of enthusiasm and energy and cheerfulness comes directly out of my residual good will. Now I think I know what it's lke to feel a foetus suck the calcium right out of your bones...

So yeah - i can see why guys get cranky, and have little left over. Some people have more inner resources than others, some have better coping skills, and some are just plain jerks. As a rough guide, the nicer they're being, the thinner they're spread.

[cased]

:ecomcity: This could go on forever but i'm glad it seems to be most DH's are like this with newborns. Hopefully it'll change once DS gets older, then he can pass daddy the screwdriver and help fix the cars!!


/vent

I fail to see how most DH/DP are like this? out of 8 replies, coming from a forum where 99% post about DH/DP are negivaive. I admit that I have not been a member long but I have yet to see a post where someone says what a Super fantastic hubby/partner they have.

I would not stand for the male attitudes that have been talked about here. Fathers have just as much responsibility as their partners to their children and should be shouldering half the burden.

/vent off

Sorry I need to stop there before I put myself in more sh*t. The male attitudes spoken about in this topic are a pet hate of mine.

[cased]

Jate and Abby had the right of it, IMHO.

Being a (working) father is in many ways the most supremely unrewarding job in the world.

Not the hardest, or the most demanding / gruelling - that's fulltime motherhood, no question, hands down.

But when it comes to the sheer cost/benefit ratio - we lose, bigtime.

Ferinstance:

I get home after a long day, and immediately start dealing with drool, spew, poo and screaming, running baths, making dinner (which always burns / dries out due to some uscheduled emergency), stuffing it down in the 3 minutes until he wakes up again, tiptoeing around and clearing up / showering / etc when he finally goes down for the night, in a continual state of emergency, like we're hiding from the gestapo or something.

My wife is long gone, replaced by a perpetually stressed-out, exhausted roommate and her live-in tyrannical boss.

My sex life is a distant, mocking memory, there isn't even any time that we can just sit together without our minds on something else. There's no emotional space to stretch out in - the only connection left is shared stress, exhaustion and sympathy.

My kid isn't a person yet, he's a collection of issues, problems, demands and contingencies, all wrapped up in one smelly soggy bundle that can't ever be put down or left alone for one second.

I know, it's like that *all day* at home with him, and a lot worse - and I'm not saying you have it easier. Oh, hell no, I wouldn't want your job. That's not my point.

The thing is, you at least get to bond with the damn thing. You've got the hardest job in the world, but at least you're getting paid for it (however insufficiently). You've fallen in love with your child, you're developing a relationship with him, you've got someone that loves you back, and someone that every day learns something new, and you're doing a job that you can be proud of, every day.

I don't get any of those things. I've given up all that I had and all that I loved, for precisely no return - and I'm not even achieving anything in the process.

Sure, it'll get easier as he gets older, what I contribute will start to become a creative influence, not just emergency maintenance. Sure, he'll start to know me and love me, and make everything worth it. Sure, as things settle down, I'll have a family that I'm part of, instead of one that I just work for.

But not yet. Not for a long, long time - the light at the end of that tunnel isn't even visible yet.

At least if I had some miserable job on the other side of the world, I'd be allowed to be lonely and depressed without attracting censure and scorn, and I wouldn't have the shadows of all that I loved and all that made life worthwhile taunting me every single day while staying just out of reach.

I don't begrudge a gram of it of course - this is something I went into with my eyes wide open, and a price I chose to pay, because it's more than worth it in the long run.

But in the short term - it's all on credit. Every speck of enthusiasm and energy and cheerfulness comes directly out of my residual good will. Now I think I know what it's lke to feel a foetus suck the calcium right out of your bones...

So yeah - i can see why guys get cranky, and have little left over. Some people have more inner resources than others, some have better coping skills, and some are just plain jerks. As a rough guide, the nicer they're being, the thinner they're spread.

All I am going to say is that I hope you are taking the ****.

[Mister Noodle]

And people wonder why there are so few fathers on this board...

[Lil X-men]

Jate and Abby had the right of it, IMHO.

Being a (working) father is in many ways the most supremely unrewarding job in the world.

Not the hardest, or the most demanding / gruelling - that's fulltime motherhood, no question, hands down.

But when it comes to the sheer cost/benefit ratio - we lose, bigtime.

Ferinstance:

I get home after a long day, and immediately start dealing with drool, spew, poo and screaming, running baths, making dinner (which always burns / dries out due to some uscheduled emergency), stuffing it down in the 3 minutes until he wakes up again, tiptoeing around and clearing up / showering / etc when he finally goes down for the night, in a continual state of emergency, like we're hiding from the gestapo or something.

My wife is long gone, replaced by a perpetually stressed-out, exhausted roommate and her live-in tyrannical boss.

My sex life is a distant, mocking memory, there isn't even any time that we can just sit together without our minds on something else. There's no emotional space to stretch out in - the only connection left is shared stress, exhaustion and sympathy.

My kid isn't a person yet, he's a collection of issues, problems, demands and contingencies, all wrapped up in one smelly soggy bundle that can't ever be put down or left alone for one second.

I know, it's like that *all day* at home with him, and a lot worse - and I'm not saying you have it easier. Oh, hell no, I wouldn't want your job. That's not my point.

The thing is, you at least get to bond with the damn thing. You've got the hardest job in the world, but at least you're getting paid for it (however insufficiently). You've fallen in love with your child, you're developing a relationship with him, you've got someone that loves you back, and someone that every day learns something new, and you're doing a job that you can be proud of, every day.

I don't get any of those things. I've given up all that I had and all that I loved, for precisely no return - and I'm not even achieving anything in the process.

Sure, it'll get easier as he gets older, what I contribute will start to become a creative influence, not just emergency maintenance. Sure, he'll start to know me and love me, and make everything worth it. Sure, as things settle down, I'll have a family that I'm part of, instead of one that I just work for.

But not yet. Not for a long, long time - the light at the end of that tunnel isn't even visible yet.

At least if I had some miserable job on the other side of the world, I'd be allowed to be lonely and depressed without attracting censure and scorn, and I wouldn't have the shadows of all that I loved and all that made life worthwhile taunting me every single day while staying just out of reach.

I don't begrudge a gram of it of course - this is something I went into with my eyes wide open, and a price I chose to pay, because it's more than worth it in the long run.

But in the short term - it's all on credit. Every speck of enthusiasm and energy and cheerfulness comes directly out of my residual good will. Now I think I know what it's lke to feel a foetus suck the calcium right out of your bones...

So yeah - i can see why guys get cranky, and have little left over. Some people have more inner resources than others, some have better coping skills, and some are just plain jerks. As a rough guide, the nicer they're being, the thinner they're spread.

Oh Mr Noodle thats a very interesting view point I fully understand your feelings, my DH was the same the first few months, hard to know where he fit in, tired from wroking a **** job and then coming hometo screaming child!!
But your input creatively isnt tooo far off mate!! My boy is now 20months old and he worships the ground his father walks on and has done so for months now.
My DH is sooo chuffed by this and gets a real kick out of coming home from work to a big hug from his little boy!! You dont have too long to wait to reap the rewards of your labour!
Honestly you should the smile on DH's face when he sees his boy, you have alot to look forward too!

[Beany]

All I am going to say is that I hope you are taking the ****.

Erm ... what has he said that sounds like taking the wee?

[Foxy]

Great post Mr Noodle.

You have described my DH perfectly!

[Baby Girl]

I can see where cased is coming from when he talks about taking the wee.... Mr Noodle's very own unique style is something that takes some getting used to. Creatively he has a lot to give!!

My former-DP was great with both girls until they got mobile and started talking - now he clashes terribly with them more often than they have fun together (well it seems more often but it probably isn't really :rolleyes: ). Who knows why but every man is different. I wish my partner had been perfect the whole time we have had kids but the sad truth is he has not been but hey niether have I. We are both learning and both work hard to "get it right". Sure there are times when I feel like I work harder than he does but he does things his own way. The girls love him and they have their own relationship with him that differs from the one I have with them and that is fine.

[alicesmum]

Mine too!

My DH has only just started to connect with DS who is six months. for the first 3 months i coulda killed him for being such a kill-joy about it all.

but then i remember - he doesn't get all the oxytocin i get :laughing:

i once heard on a show about kids with cancer that until the kid is ten, mum has a stronger bond. by ten, the nurses and doctors see the anguish and grief just as strongly in dads as in mums. i reckon it must be much earlier for many dads, but the point is that for dads, it's just hard bl00dy work for the first little while until they really get something back from the child.

DD is 2 and 4 months now and such a daddy's girl. but for the first six months with her as well, though he did his best, i thought "why doesn't he feel the way i feel about her". i saw a psych recently about these kinds of issues and she reckons it is very common for many men not to cope well for a while after becoming a dad. so i think your dh is normal. he will get over it. if he doesn't improve though in the coming months, you will have to address with him the issues he is having.

for me, the very act of going to see someone "to get some strategies on how to deal with my situation" (p.s. and with him!) has worked a treat because it has sparked his curiousity ("what is she telling this person?") and he has been trying harder, perhaps because he hopes i will say nice things at my next appointment and worries that i might say bad things. it's totally hilarious :laughing:

(2 words mr noodle - the first one's "radical" ;)

[Beany]

Great post Mr Noodle.

You have described my DH perfectly!

Funny that, mine too!

:D

:p

[Mrs Potts]

Beany you crack me up! :laughing:

As for the discussion at hand, IMO all this psychobabble is cr@p. Why do men have the right to behave like toddlers who have had their favourite toy taken away? after all, they did have a "hand" in the situation.

Mums don't get to throw tanty's because they don't have time to get their hair/nails done anymore. We don't get to complain because bub has puked all over our favourite shirt. Again. We (generally) can't say anything when (some) DH's come home from work grizzling that dinner isn't ready yet, and "what have you been doing all day?". Because if mums did whinge Dad would throw another tanty and sulk in the shed for the forseeable future.

I say it's time these "men" start to behave like men and participate in their family. Maybe if they put more in where bub is concerned they might get more back. What a bizarre thought!

FWIW, my DH is one in a million. He does as much for our kids as I do (including bub), does housework, does whatever needs to be done and usually without being asked. Consequently both the kids adore him. My DH would be on the street before you could blink if he started behaving like other dad's I have heard about.

Of course, I don't mean to offend anyone, this is purely my own opinion.

[Foxy]

Funny that, mine too!

:D

:p

:laughing:

[bekkyboo]

/vent

I fail to see how most DH/DP are like this? out of 8 replies, coming from a forum where 99% post about DH/DP are negivaive. I admit that I have not been a member long but I have yet to see a post where someone says what a Super fantastic hubby/partner they have.

I would not stand for the male attitudes that have been talked about here. Fathers have just as much responsibility as their partners to their children and should be shouldering half the burden.

/vent off

Sorry I need to stop there before I put myself in more sh*t. The male attitudes spoken about in this topic are a pet hate of mine.
Just to name one thread about postive fathers and husbands http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=54758

As for MN comments - I completely understand. My DH will work 12 hours a day at a very high stress physically demanding job, and when he gets home i pounce on him. He tells me all he needs is 5 minutes to wind down and he'd be happy to help - but i dont always let him have that. And hell - We all need our 5 minute wind down dont we.

Its not fair to say that all fathers are like this - but with the extra stress of mostly being the soul provider for the family, and knowing it is you and only you that keeps the food on the table, the clothes on their back and a roof over their heads must take one hell of a toll on you. My poor man cant even have a day off when he is sick because if he doesn work we dont get paid and he soliders on because he wants to give us everything we want or need.

:yelclap: to the fathers out there... I respect all the hard work you do for your families!

Oh MN, i think that you are so right with the bonding making it easier. Our DS has been smitten with my hubby since birth, it was me that took longer to bond, and i think that is why my DH has coped better with the change.

[Mister Noodle]

To clarify: I don't say that it's OK to be a complete knobhead, I was just pointing out the reasons why many are such.

The two things are very different.

[susiehomemaker]

Mister Noodle, you have some very good points and you are very articulate. :yelclap:
I understand that the early days are not so good, but DD is now 1 and loves her Dad to bits and he still resents having to do anything. He does do things, but in such a half arsed fashion ie- putting her down for a nap this evening when he knew she was hungry in a nappy that he knew had no booster in it, without a cover on it which he knows will only end in tears and a S*** encrusted cot because DD has learnt how to rip her nappies off and only a cover will save us..... That was just tonight, while I was having a nap because my thyroid carked it entirely 2 years ago and I ran out of my prescription and didnt have time to fill it because he would not stay home while DD was asleep in her cot which was the only time I had to get to the chemist. No tablets = me starting the hidious descent into need of sleep (ie about 18 hrs sleep a day- of which I had only had 4 as I was up wrapping presents all night while DH slept) And still he could not do a decent job. Doing a freakin **** job of it is his protest against me for asking him to do anything. He did not even work today so he had no excuse.
Sorry- Im pretty p***ed off with him right now- I realise all men are not this bad (with my head anyway- my heart is another matter...)
So I had to rant for a moment (or 3) before I exploded all over his pitiful attempt at "helping"

[Dadandtwo]

Hi

Sorry, a bit of a delayed response here as I haven't been on here for a few weeks. From my own experience which includes many playgroup meetings and discussions with other mothers and fathers, I would generally agree with what Mr Noodle had to say...being a father can be an unrewarding job.

There are various reasons why men suddenly stop doing things or being supportive. They may be feeling useless because they don't spend as much time with their child and feel inadequate as a result, they simply feel 'left out' (my birthing experience of being shoved out the delivery room when they thought there may have been complications and then not being told what had happened until I saw my gorgeous daughter being wheeled past :mad: , they may just be idiots who should simply grow up or they are the standard guys who think that changing nappies etc is a 'woman's job'...idiots too.

My experience as a very hands on father is that fathers are somewhat put on the backburner even before the baby is born...attend some of those birthing classes and it's like they've tacked on "and partner/father" on the end of many sentences just to say they've covered fathers off. I remember being very p***ed off by the end of most of them.

Once the kids come it's very exciting, but then, back to work you have to go. My relationship as father was/is very different to that of most, where I did most of the 'work' with the kids...all the night feeding, waking throughout the night to tend to the kids. But I still headed off to work each day to a fairly high level, stressful environment...all day trying to work whilst trying to keep my eyes open and thinking how wonderful it would be to be at home with the kids. Then I'd come home exhausted to "now it's your turn...I've had them all day" even though my parents in law or other mothers had the kids for many hours each day. I remember feeling like a walking zombie at the time. There wasn't much time for actual bonding, although the night feeding was rewarding...as good as it could be while I was half asleep. Whilst all this was happening, my wife developed a network of other mothers through playgroup and they shared stories etc which is great for them and the kids, but at the same time, I'm there still pounding away at work...being told how to deal with the kids as though I was the 'unknowing father'...and I still get this kind of comment from some mothers, which is a shame.

Yes, many reasons why men change. I am assuming that most men change for the better as the kids get older and they can actually communicate with them and do things with them...not 100% sure, but being a father myself, I'm assuming that would be the case more often than not. As someone suggested too, good idea to actually get the father to look after the little one for an extended period, hopefully without too much intervention from the mother.

Anyway, have to get the kids ready for the park to meet up with another couple of kids for mine to play with :)

Bye for now.

[Mister Noodle]

I suppose the other thing is that it's hard to get behind jobs if you can't take ownership of them.

Ferinstance, at work there are several systems in place that I only have vague, by-rote knowledge of, because I simply don't have the authority to leap in, change stuff, get my hands dirty and risk breaking things - and if things do break, I won't have the leisure to work out how to fix them myself; someone else will take it out of my hands. As a result, there just isn't a way for me to take them over from my current position.

Same deal, I suspect, with most dads and the parenting game. We're never given responsibility for the whole thing, end-to-end, so the vast forest of rituals and rules that make up the job remain forever arbitrary, arcane and most of all someone else's. We don't invent the rules, so we don't understand them and thus don't care about them.

We do something that looks reasonable and sufficient, only to be greeted with eye-rolling, being told we're useless (with some totally ad-hoc rationalisation) and getting shooed out and yelled at.

As a result, we just end up with the sense that you're being capricious, picky prima donnas who just want to create some drama to feel martyred about and have a good old whinge about to your cronies later on.

If you don't let people make their own mistakes, don't let them fix them, and don't make that the reason for caring about doing it right in the first place, you're just not going to get good results.

No amount of experience as fry cook will train you as CEO - you need to give people authority and autonomy if you want them to learn responsibility and command.

Not that this is always going to be possible, depending on circumstances - but hey, I'm giving you reasons here, not solutions or justifications.

(and yes, I'm making vast, huge, unfair generalisations with 'we' and 'you' here - the terms only apply where they apply, IYKWIM)

[*Sparkles*]

This is a very interesting thread and after reading through it all I have found the father's replies to be very interesting and a bit of an eye opener.
We are drawing towards the end of our pregnancy (our first) and I never really gave these issues much thought on behalf of my DH. So I would like to thank the men who have voiced their opinions as this will have some bearing on how I treat my DH after the birth.

He also has a demanding job and works long hours. So far during the pregnancy he has got excited about setting up the nursery and buying things for the bub. But he has also been lacking sometimes in giving me help or showing an interest in my pregnancy symptoms (which is why I love bubhub so much ;) )

I have no idea how he will be after bubs comes. He could become very distant or he could be very involved. I have no idea :confused:

[Dadandtwo]

Yes, I think it's important to get both sides of the story with everything. There's just not too many fathers on this site to provide their experiences etc, which is a problem. Mr Noodle is pretty much on the mark and I agree with his comments. Happy though for anyone to ask any questions they like :)

[daisyxs]

[QUOTE=laurasmummy;902590]He does do things, but in such a half arsed fashion ie- putting her down for a nap this evening when he knew she was hungry in a nappy that he knew had no booster in it, without a cover on it which he knows will only end in tears and a S*** encrusted cot because DD has learnt how to rip her nappies off and only a cover will save us.....QUOTE]

he knew she was hungry and needed her nappy done but did nothing?

if he were mine, id give him the boot.
not up the @rse, but out the door!! :mad:

[tomtom]

I think the point is we all have our own issues when the family dynamics change. I think it's important that we understand what the other is going through. I mean marriage is all about comprimise and communication.
If I don't know why my husband is upset or why he has suddenly changed his behaviour then how can I begin to understand why things have changed for the worse. If I don't understand why, then how can I make a change to make things better. ( now all I have to do is get him to talk!) This also goes for him.
I don't think it's a matter of " if my husband were to behave like that I would kick him out" Everybody makes mistakes, none of us are perfect we just need to be a little more tolerant of each other and be willing to put the effort into each other.
It's a team game!

[Dadandtwo]

Yes, couldn't agree more with tomtom. And yes, it's getting him to talk now...that's the hard part :fingerscrossed: Funny enough, we do communicate differently too. I know that when I was with my partner, we tried to talk at different times but we really couldn't 'communicate' that well at all. I remember simply saying to her that I couldn't do all of the work anymore and that I needed her to help, but she kept kind of wanting to go deeper and talk about other things, but I remember just thinking at the time that all that had to happen was for her to simply help me...I then wouldn't be a walking zombie and could start to be a full person again and hopefully other things could roll on from that or that we could talk more then. We just didn't click at all. I'm sure we both went away thinking the other isn't listening. I think that happens all the time with partners.

Anyway, thought I'd give a basic example. Best of luck anyway Danielle13.

[susiehomemaker]

[quote=laurasmummy;902590]He does do things, but in such a half arsed fashion ie- putting her down for a nap this evening when he knew she was hungry in a nappy that he knew had no booster in it, without a cover on it which he knows will only end in tears and a S*** encrusted cot because DD has learnt how to rip her nappies off and only a cover will save us.....QUOTE]

he knew she was hungry and needed her nappy done but did nothing?

if he were mine, id give him the boot.
not up the @rse, but out the door!! :mad:

Yes yes and yes. He lacks any kind of common sense. Apparently DD being tired and cranky overides any other needs. lol- next time he tries that **** I will send him to bed with out any dinner saying that he is tired, and needs to sleep:laughing: Needless to say I wont change his nappy either:D I often want to give him either of the above boots, but out the door (as tempting as it is) probably wont solve too much. I have yet to meet a man who is not completely incompetent or dis-engaged emotionally. Better the devil you know.....
He has been on holidays since christmas and has actually been quite helpful. Quite hopeless too though. Sposie on the bum instead of lovely cloth AIO's (they where all the way in the clean laundry basket- not in the stacker) pants on back to front, let her in the garage (which is where we keep all the chemical stuff, battery bank for our new solar system, boat engine, cat food) where she promptly drank something and he yelled at her (she is 13 months- like she knows what she is doing? Hence why places like garage are off limits!) Put her on her new rocking horse (which she is a bit to small for just yet) and walked away, put her on the swings at the park and went and sat down (out of reaching range) list goes on.....
But, to give him his dues he did get up for her 5 mornings out of 7 the first week he had off and let me sleep in, has been helping with the nappy changes- the ickiest parts too, and minded her while I went out to lunch with my friend Lis & our Mum's. Also, has been helping with the house work, just general tidying up and cleaning the kitchen. It has been a lovely change, but it will all be over come monday:gloomy: he goes back to work. I dont know whether to be thankful or upset! He drives me insane when he is home all the time, but he has been much nicer than when he is working....

[Two Little Buggalugs]

I was just engrossed in this thread and half of it disappeared. Think the moderater must have stepped in as it was getting very heated.

Most of the dads replying have been very honest and pretty funny! I had a breakdown recently as my DH was pressuring me to do more work from home, when bub was getting more active and needing more attention. Plus the housework piling! Anyway, I told him there was no way I could work unless he helped out more. I actually accused him of ruining motherhood for me! I'm lucky that he has his own business and he looked after DD for 2 days while I went into work.

It was an eye opener for him and opened the door to some more frank discussion. Did he realise that by now she only sleeps about 3 hours a day? During the two days I deliberately didn't step in to point out she was running out of clean bibs or bottles or that he would soon run out of jocks... Of course, at the end of the 2 days, my house was pretty messy, but the difference to our relationship has been great.

I'm a drama queen anyway and I know that I've changed. I can admit (though not often to him) that I have become a trifle defensive and at times my anger doesn't match the crime (like when he tells me he's forgotten how to wrap her and I go a bit nuts on him). But he does try to see it from my point of view and I can feel how he wants to work, not to get away, but to take care of us. The worries that Dad's feel is very valid.

If we could get them all to understand what's involved in a full day, full week (no weekends off!) of child care and we could understand what they go through working and coming home to the witching hour, missing out the fun.

BTW, already at 6 months my DD will laugh more at DH and light up when she sees him. I know she loves me and I get the cuddles and kisses, but he has a special relationship too.

If you can, getting your partner to look after bub for a day is great. I also make sure I tell my partner what I'm doing for her routine, changes I'm making to food introduction etc. Then he feels involved, even if he's not the project manager.

If they are doing a 9 to 5, not too stressful job, I can't see any reason they can't get even more involved too. For all his faults, I'd like to publically thank (not that he'll read this) my DH for sharing the 10pm and 3am feeds with me in the beginning. And to this day, he continues to feed her milk and solids at 7am while I get a lie in. Then I get up and play with her at 8am while he gets ready for work. He also baths her most nights. :yelclap:

Then again, I did ask him to watch her recently and he wasn't watching as she crawled off our bed and hit the floor... No-ones perfect!

[Daddy2Angels]

Jate and Abby had the right of it, IMHO.

Being a (working) father is in many ways the most supremely unrewarding job in the world.

Not the hardest, or the most demanding / gruelling - that's fulltime motherhood, no question, hands down.

But when it comes to the sheer cost/benefit ratio - we lose, bigtime.

Ferinstance:

I get home after a long day, and immediately start dealing with drool, spew, poo and screaming, running baths, making dinner (which always burns / dries out due to some uscheduled emergency), stuffing it down in the 3 minutes until he wakes up again, tiptoeing around and clearing up / showering / etc when he finally goes down for the night, in a continual state of emergency, like we're hiding from the gestapo or something.

My wife is long gone, replaced by a perpetually stressed-out, exhausted roommate and her live-in tyrannical boss.

My sex life is a distant, mocking memory, there isn't even any time that we can just sit together without our minds on something else. There's no emotional space to stretch out in - the only connection left is shared stress, exhaustion and sympathy.

My kid isn't a person yet, he's a collection of issues, problems, demands and contingencies, all wrapped up in one smelly soggy bundle that can't ever be put down or left alone for one second.

I know, it's like that *all day* at home with him, and a lot worse - and I'm not saying you have it easier. Oh, hell no, I wouldn't want your job. That's not my point.

The thing is, you at least get to bond with the damn thing. You've got the hardest job in the world, but at least you're getting paid for it (however insufficiently). You've fallen in love with your child, you're developing a relationship with him, you've got someone that loves you back, and someone that every day learns something new, and you're doing a job that you can be proud of, every day.

I don't get any of those things. I've given up all that I had and all that I loved, for precisely no return - and I'm not even achieving anything in the process.

Sure, it'll get easier as he gets older, what I contribute will start to become a creative influence, not just emergency maintenance. Sure, he'll start to know me and love me, and make everything worth it. Sure, as things settle down, I'll have a family that I'm part of, instead of one that I just work for.

But not yet. Not for a long, long time - the light at the end of that tunnel isn't even visible yet.

At least if I had some miserable job on the other side of the world, I'd be allowed to be lonely and depressed without attracting censure and scorn, and I wouldn't have the shadows of all that I loved and all that made life worthwhile taunting me every single day while staying just out of reach.

I don't begrudge a gram of it of course - this is something I went into with my eyes wide open, and a price I chose to pay, because it's more than worth it in the long run.

But in the short term - it's all on credit. Every speck of enthusiasm and energy and cheerfulness comes directly out of my residual good will. Now I think I know what it's lke to feel a foetus suck the calcium right out of your bones...

So yeah - i can see why guys get cranky, and have little left over. Some people have more inner resources than others, some have better coping skills, and some are just plain jerks. As a rough guide, the nicer they're being, the thinner they're spread.


Mister Noodle you could not have worded that better! My average day consists of keeping several little sh*ts happy and no unfortunatly it is not the kids, yep you guessed the next closest thing computer users at work I get no smiles, no thank yous just a chunk of change every month to make sure the rent is paid, there is food on the table, the bills are paid and any other expenses that may arise. Then there is the walking through the door after work and as every day goes by you walk through thinking how your little girl/boy has grown so much! As you go to bed dredding another day of mentally draining work you wonder what else you will miss bringing home that all 'important' pay packet. Now I am NOT GENERALISING here but if in my situation and your DP is pregnant you here all about her pain of the pregnancy and what a lazy '*******' you can be some days. (I guess there is no pleasing people) But you take it all in your stride help with the kids or cook dinner or fold the washing etc. Then there is my weekend usually if I am changing my sleeping pattern I try and let my DP sleep in. I guess SAHM get all the rewards in terms of seeing the kids grow. By the time I do get home I am too buggered to move let alone do stuff around the house. In short m reward is seeing my family happy on the off days my daughter is not being a little b***h for my DP and my partners bracks and hicks or mood swings are not in effect. In short I work my *** off to see the smile on my daughters face or my DP's face. To hear my daughter say 'da da' or even 'ma ma' and yes even have my DP tell me how much she loves me that is what makes it all worth it for me. I am not saying I am lazy but you just have those days where you finish work and you just wanna crawl in a hole and sleep.

[danielle13]

I was just engrossed in this thread and half of it disappeared. Think the moderater must have stepped in as it was getting very heated.

Me too! I just logged on specifically to see where things had headed from yesterday arvo's debate. Ah well.
Anyway as I said (but got deleted) - thanks everyone for your input, it's good to see things from everyone's point of view, but my dp is still a lazy, inconsiderate prat.
:rolleyes:

[Two Little Buggalugs]

How funny was the guy who said the mums replying were all lazy and ungrateful? That got taken off in record time. :laughing:

How's your acting skills? Maybe you could fake an illness - the bedrest kind! Your 'prat' could take a week off work and look after the bub and house...

Or you could just go on strike. Once, when I was feeling taken for granted, I did all the laundry except for his, cooked my own meals and left him to find his own :chef: etc... That was an interesting week!

Some days, I know she's pooed, but I pretend I don't and start doing something so I can ask DH to change her nappy...

[Dadandtwo]

Hi, I'm one of the pen pushers the guy spoke about this week. Look, I can see where he is coming from to some degree...you have to see both sides. This guy works outside, no idea what he does, but I used to work outside. Canberra at the moment is having 35 to 38 degree days. Before moving to Canberra, I lived in the country...I worked outside as a brickie's labourer, concreter etc in the same temperature...my first day as a conceter was 42 degrees. Nothing harder I have ever done in my life than concreting, including dealing with my kids, they're heaven compared with that. There's a lot of things the fathers who go to work think about all the time, including wanting to be at home with the kids, and they get cheesed off...rightly or wrongly. I hated working my bum off all day to come home to know my ex had palmed the kids off to her mum or someone else so she could have a 'free' day...I never got any free days as my work was and still is very demanding, my mornings, nights and weekends were then taken up with the kids while my ex 'rested'. There is a mother who is friends with my ex who's husband is a concreter, owns his own business. While he's out working in the sun, she's making up her own mind that she won't work as many days this year...and that he will just have to 'deal with it'. I feel for him that's for sure. He's one of the few fathers who actually comes to all the birthdays etc. So, I suppose what I am trying to say is, yes, this guy was a bit extreme as mothers aren't at home doing nothing, or most of them at least, but he's obviously a guy who is pretty frustrated...as I was.

[Beany]

Which is fair enough. I'd be frustrated too if someone was doing nothing all day and then expected me to do everything the second I walked in from work ... It has happened. The fallout was unpleasant.

Look, most of us really thoroughly appreciate the go-to-work dads that make it possible for us to be stay-at-home mums. I certainly do. It's just equally frustrating to have someone suggest that those of us that don't palm our kids off to others are sitting around doing nothing all day.

All we want - both the mothers and the fathers - is a bit of recognition for our efforts, some understanding and respect.

[Dadandtwo]

I agree totally.:thumbsup:

[daddaddad]

Firstly Mister Noodle, I love the style in which you write - No wonder you received that award. I’m glad that the internet keeps you out of arms reach. lol

Danielle, I'm no brain doctor but have you considered that it may all be a defence mechanism.

Us men spend our lives being told we’re to be the provider, the brave defender, the dynamic lover etc…. We spend 9 months pretending that we have some basic hint that we know what it’s like to be carrying a child and then we get to be an eye witness to the most traumatic event (followed by the greatest) of our lives. No one ever sits a man down and really explains that you can do nothing to take the “pain” away from the woman you love while she is in labor.

Then, we get to be a “witness” to the chaos that follows. I personally felt like a ball boy for a while. The game was more efficient with me there but in all honesty, you could gather the balls yourself or sub me out for someone else without dropping a beat.

Some medical minds out there will tell you that men can suffer from their own “baby blues”. Maybe this is because the male goes from the perceived power seat to the family member who has no control, is the third (at best) fiddle in the house and perhaps has no idea what they are doing.

I’ve heard some Dads say that they “clicked” the moment they laid eyes on their baby. That did not happen for me. It took me weeks before I felt a real emotional attachment. Maybe by then, I already appeared disinterested…

Chuck in a big does of sleep deprivation by everyone in the house and you might be closer to the answer.

Then again – he might just be a ……

[Kirstlea]

To clarify: I don't say that it's OK to be a complete knobhead, I was just pointing out the reasons why many are such.

The two things are very different.

:laughing: I so love reading your posts :laughing:

You describe our household very well. I am going to print your post and give it to my dh to read while he is being driven to work. I am sure he will feel alot better knowing he is not the only one who feels panic when he gets home.

We often to say to each other once the kids are asleep well we survived another day it can only get easier. :laughing: The he toodles off to his shed and I finish clearing up and plonk myself on the couch or here at the computer and we chill out for an hour.

Now all we have to do is figure out a way to get together feeling relaxed enough to enjoy each other :devil6:

[Kells]

:yelclap: to all the dad's that have put their input into this thread. You guys have really made me see a different side to fatherhood, and how hard it is for you and what feelings you may be having.

I guess I owe someone an apology in the morning for getting grouchy about him having a few beers with the neighbours after working out in 40 degree heat all day... :o

**slinks off in the distance**

[AshleasDad]

Hi everyone,I have been watching this website since my beautiful wife was pregnant, however, I have not added a lot to it at all.My beautiful daughter is now 18 months old, my beautiful wife works 4 nights a week, and quite honestly, it makes it hard on our relationship. I guess I am adding this post to try to help other wives/partners to realise what their other halves are going through. Please, I'm not making judgement on you! I am just conveying what my experience was like, and is still like.(please. add the word 'beautiful', 'stunning' and 'caring' in front of the word 'wife' each time, I mean it, but I want also to express this to other fathers)I come home from work very tired, every night, the easiest thing to do would be to say that I really need a sleep.This is very true, I do need a sleep.However.Lauren (my wife) and Ashlea (my daughter) do not allow me that luxury, and I would not have it any other way.They have been staying at Lauren's mum's for almost a week and it has been the most lonely week of my life. I know I should be enjoying the laziness of it all, but for some reason it doesn't happen, I want the 'hassle' of my daughter and wife to be near me.I cried for about an hour tonight when Lauren said Ashlea would not eat her dinner unless there was a photo of me and her on her high chair while she ate.For any fathers who are indecisive (if that is the right word) or feel that their children are not 100% committed to them ,they are sure, we just have to commit to them 100% as well. They are the best, most unquestioning things we will have in our lives, let's appreciate them.Cheers, and lots of love,Scott

[Mister Noodle]

Damn straight.

And you make a good point - for all the hassle that it involves, you just can't enjoy life if it's not there.

[Harmony83]

Thanks guys, you have given me a real insight as to what my hubby feels, I do take him for granted and I will really try not to from now on!
Thanks again!