CC why I don't want to

[Pixie]

OK I am dashing off to Kindermusik but I hope you guys can help me while I am gone lol I am sick to poo pants of people telling me I need to start CC Eliza I found two wonderful articles this morning as to why one shouldn't and I am hoping other like minded women out there can show me some more!

Here are the two I found
http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/bfinfo/crying.html

http://www.**********.com.au/articles/baby/the-con-of-controlled-crying

I just want to show these people the articles and say here look this is my view I don't know why but I feel in some way I have to justify why I don't want to and want proof!!

TIA

[Kizmet]

Hi Nat,

have no info for you but want to send you some support! we dont do CC either i have nothing against people who do but its just not for us. I cant stand the thought of abigail crying and no one there to help her :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs:

[Shanaynay]

Pixie - fantastic ABA article :thumbsup:
"controlled crying....oops sorry controlled comforting" :laughing:

The other article good too but I am especially pleased to see the ABA one - it's good to see such a reputable organisation put it out there in words!
Thankyou!

I'm always searching for stuff like this so will post any articles I find!

[the_queen]

Thanks Pixie, great articles, seeing as we're in the no-cry sleep solution section of the forum . I too am glad that the ABA is so sensible about this issue.

[FinnsMama]

Hey Pixie,

Here's the link to the actual position paper of the Australian Association of Infant Mental Health on controlled crying, which is mentioned in the other articles: www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf (http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf)

You have some good back-up there I reckon, sucks that you feel you have to justify yourself though hey?! :(

Good luck :)

[Lunar]

Oh Nat~ :hugs:
We don't use CC either. We did however use it for Emily as a LAST RESORT! This was when she was over 18 months old and just would not go to sleep by herself with out me sitting patting her for an hour and a half through the cot bars....torture!

It worked for us,(we tried everything else, and I mean EVERYTHING!) but I would not recommend it. I will not be using this 'method' on Kailah:shame:

DON"T ever feel you have to 'justify' your actions or feelings to anyone.!!
:hugs:

[BabyJoy]

Hey Nat, you're not alone. This is something I feel VERY strongly about since going through hell and back with my daughter and her poor sleep habits. EVERYONE said "do controlled crying" as if there was no other alternative... well HEL-LO!!.... I found two books offering no-cry solutions and they work!!
I only wish that the mums reading the CC threads would take a look at the articles you have mentioned (as well as what is written in Elizabeth Pantley's book) so they can realise the harm they are doing to their babies. (I'll probably get another warning for that comment... :shame: )

[cheezelkat]

As you know I tried it...and gave up. The reason? It was so hard seeing my baby sleep with his face bright red from screaming and not being able to pick him up and breastfeed him to sleep. I felt extremely guilty about it as my baby needed me.

I also found he didn't sleep for as long as he did when I settled him with gentle techniques.

BTW, I am having much more success with sleeping at the moment. He sleeps in his pram during the day, moving to the bed if he wakes. He sleeps 2 hours in the morning, 90 minutes in the afternoon. Happy bubba!

[1+1=5]

sorry guys but i can't get the link for this anymore and i can't figure out how to attach word documents. either way this is a great article:

Australian Association for Infant Mental Health Inc.
Affiliated with the World Association for Infant Mental Health
www.aaimhi.org
Position Paper 1: Controlled Crying
Issued November 2002; Revised March 2004
The Australian Association for Infant Mental Health
Inc. (AAIMHI) aims (in part) to:
• improve professional and public recognition that
infancy is a critical period in psycho-social
development, and
• work for the improvement of the mental health
and development of all infants and families.
Definition
Controlled crying (also known as controlled comforting
and sleep training) is a technique that is widely
used as a way of managing infants and young
children who do not settle alone or who wake at
night. Controlled crying involves leaving the infant
to cry for increasingly longer periods of time before
providing comfort. The intention of controlled crying
is to let babies put themselves to sleep and to stop
them from crying or calling out during the night.
AAIMHI is concerned that the widely practiced
technique of controlled crying is not consistent with
what infants need for their optimal emotional and
psychological health, and may have unintended
negative consequences.
Background to AAIMHI’s Concerns
This statement is premised on an understanding of
crying to mean crying that indicates distress, either
psychological or physical, rather than the “fussing”
that many babies do in settling or adjusting to
different circumstances.
Babies have to adapt to a totally new world and
even small changes can be stressful for them.
Leaving babies to cry without comfort, even for
short periods of time, can be very distressing for
them.
Crying is a signal of distress or discomfort from an
infant or young child. Although controlled crying can
stop children from crying, it may teach children not
to seek or expect support when distressed.
Infants from about six months of age suffer from
differing degrees of anxiety when separated from
their parents. This anxiety continues until they can
learn that their parents will return when they leave,
and that they are safe. This learning may take up to
three years.
Almost all children grow out of the need to wake at
night and be reassured by three or four years of
age, many much earlier than this.
Infants are more likely to develop secure attachments
when their distress is responded to promptly,
consistently and appropriately. Secure attachments
in infancy are the foundation for good adult mental
health.
Infants whose parents respond and attend to their
crying promptly, learn to settle more quickly in the
long run as they become secure in the knowledge
that their needs for emotional comfort will be met.
The demands of Western lifestyles and some
“expert” advice has led to an expectation that all
infants and young children should sleep through the
night from the early months or even weeks. In fact
infants have the potential to arouse more often in
the night than older children or adults because their
sleep cycles are much shorter. These short sleep
cycles allow infants to experience more rapid eye
movement (REM) sleep, which is considered to be
important for their brain development.
Many parents become distressed and exhausted
when their infants and young children cry at night, in
part because of the physical strain of getting up and
going to their babies to re-settle them, and sometimes
in part because of the unrealistic expectation
that babies “should” sleep through the night.
Many infants and parents sleep best when they
sleep together. There is no developmental reason
why infants should sleep separately from their
parents, and in most parts of the world infants do
sleep with their parents or other family members,
either in the same bed, or in a cot next to the
parents’ bed.

[1+1=5]

There are certain conditions under
which bed sharing should not occur, for example
when a parent is affected by drugs or alcohol, or
where the bedding is overly soft. Parents should
check current information about safe sleeping, see
www.askdrsears.com or
www.sidsaustralia.org.au for more information.
Many parents find controlled crying helpful and this
is one of the reasons for its popularity. For other
parents it does not work, or causes so much distress
for the parent and the infant that it is discontinued.
There have been no studies such as sleep laboratory
studies, to our knowledge, that assess the
physiological stress levels of infants who undergo
controlled crying, or its emotional or psychological
impact on the developing child.
For further information about this document, contact Pam Linke on Tel: (08) 8303 1566.
AAIMHI - Controlled Crying Principles
It is normal and healthy for infants and young
children not to sleep through the night and to need
attention from parents. This should not be labeled a
disorder except where it is clearly outside the usual
patterns.
Parents should be reassured that attending to their
infant’s needs/crying will not cause a lasting “habit”.
Waking in older infants and young children may be
due to separation anxiety, and in these cases
sleeping with or next to a parent is a valid option.
This often enables all to get a good night’s sleep.
Any methods used to assist parents to get a good
night’s sleep should not compromise the infant’s
developmental and emotional needs.
If controlled crying is to be used it would be most
appropriate after the child has an understanding of
the meaning of the parent’s words, to know that the
parent will be coming back and to be able to feel
safe without the parent’s presence. Developmentally
this takes about three years. This varies between
children so observing children and responding to
their cues is the best way to assess when a child
feels safe sleeping alone.
A full professional assessment of the child’s health,
and child and family relationships should be undertaken
before initiating a controlled crying program.
This should include an assessment of whether in
fact the infant’s crying is outside normal levels. All
efforts should be made to link parents with community
supports to minimise the isolation and frustration
felt by many parents when caring for a young
child. Other strategies, apart from controlled crying,
should always be discussed with parents as preferable
options.
If an infant or child has already experienced separation
from a parent due to sickness, parental absence
or adoption, or if he or she becomes very distressed,
the method should not be used. This is
because children who have already experienced
traumatic separation are more vulnerable to negative
effects from the kind of stress caused by controlled
crying.
Where parental stress due to infant crying may lead
to risk of abuse it is essential that parents be linked
with social supports and therapeutic intervention.
Parents should be told that the controlled crying
method has not been assessed in terms of stress on
the infant or the impact on the infant’s emotional
development.
Where it is used recommendations should be for
exercising caution and playing safe. For example,
paying attention to level of distress rather than
number of minutes baby has to be left to cry, or not
continuing with any technique if it does not feel
right.

[1+1=5]

Bibliography
The list below is not specifically for studies on the impact of
controlled crying on infants because there are no records of such
studies. The list has sources of general background information
related to sleep and to understanding children and stress.
Bell SM & Ainsworth MD (1972). Infant crying and maternal
responsiveness. Child Development 43, 1171-1190.
Blurton Jones N (1972). Comparative aspects of mother-child
contact. In: Blurton Jones N (Ed). Ethological Studies of Child
Behaviour. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.
Bowlby J (1973). Attachment and loss: 2. Separation.
Harmondswroth, Middlesex: Penguin.
Dolby R (1996). Overview of Attachment Theory and Consequences
for Emotional Development. In: Seminar 15. Attachment: Children’s
Emotional Development and the Link with Care and Protection
Issues. Sydney: Child Protection Council.
Hope MJ (1986). Selected Paper No. 43: Understanding Crying in
Infancy. Kensington, NSW: Foundation for Child & Youth Studies.
James McKenna’s Mother-Baby Behavioural Sleep Laboratory.
www.nd.edu/~jmckenn1/lab
Keller H et al. (1996). Psychobiological aspects of infant crying.
Early Development and Parenting 5, 1-13.
Lamport Commons M. & Miller PM. Emotional learning in infants: A
cross-cultural examination. <http://www.naturalchild.com/research/
emotional_learning_infants.html>
Leach P (1994). Children First: What we must do, and are not doing
– for our children today. London: Penguin.
McKenna J & Gartner L (2000). Sleep Location and Suffocation:
How Good Is The Evidence? Pediatrics 105, 917-919.
McKenna J (2000). Cultural Influences on Infant Sleep (abbreviated
chapter) Zero To Three 20, 9-18.
Mitchell EA & Thompson JMD (1995). Co-sleeping increases the
risk of SIDS, but sleeping in the parental bedroom lowers it. In:
Rogum TO (Ed). Sudden infant death syndrome: new trends in the
nineties. Oslo: Scandinavian University Press.
Odent M (1986). Primal health: A blueprint for our survival. London:
Century Hutchinson.
Perry BD. Memories of Fear: How the Brain Stores and Retrieves
Physiologic States, Feelings, Behaviors and Thoughts from
Traumatic Events. <http://www.childtrauma.org/CTAMATERIALS/
Memories.ASP>
Perry BD & Pollard R (1998). Homeostasis, stress, trauma, and
adaptation: a neurodevelopmental view of childhood trauma. Child
and Adolescent Psychiatric Clinics of North America 7, 33-51.
Trevathan W & McKenna J (1994). Evolutionary environments of
human birth and infancy: Insights to apply to contemporary life.
Children’s Environments 11, 88-104.
Suggestions for alternatives to controlled crying
Fleiss PM, Hodges FM & Phil D (2000). Sweet Dreams: A
Pediatrician’s Secrets for Your Child’s Good Night’s Sleep. Los
Angeles: Lowell House.
Hope M (1996). For Crying Out Loud! Understanding and Helping
Crying Babies. Randwick NSW: Sydney Children’s Hospital.
McKay P (2002). 100 Ways to Calm the Crying. Melbourne: Lothian.
McKay P (2002). Parenting by Heart. Melbourne: Lothian.
Pantley E (2002). The No-Cry Sleep Solution. NewYork: Contemporary
Books.
Sears W & Sears M (2003). The Baby Book: Everything you need
to know about your baby – from birth to age two. New York: Little,
Brown and Company.
Tracey N et al. (2002). Sleep for Baby and Family. Sydney: PIFA.
Tel: 02 82301646.
A wide range of articles for parents can be found on:
www.naturalchild.com or www.askdrsears.com (http://www.askdrsears.com)
Dr Sears has some other helpful books, including The Fussy Baby,
Night-time Parenting. © AAIM

sorry but i couldn't get the link for this article.

[1+1=5]

heres another article, it brief but it gets to the point.
http://www.pediatricsplus.org/wc/crying.asp

this article is also interesting but its a psych report. i suggest you just read the introduction and skip the jargon and go staright to the DISCUSSION section, it summarises the findings:

file:///F:/Psychology/Increased%20Carrying%20Reduces%20Infant%20Crying.h tm

[1+1=5]

Hey Pixie,

Here's the link to the actual position paper of the Australian Association of Infant Mental Health on controlled crying, which is mentioned in the other articles: www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf (http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf)

You have some good back-up there I reckon, sucks that you feel you have to justify yourself though hey?! :(

Good luck :)
LOL thats the link i was looking for!!!! how embarassing....pregnancy brain!

[1+1=5]

I dont think you need any paperwork or back up hun.

If you dont want to do something with your child then DONT and if anyone suggest otherwose tell them to mind their own business as its your child!

:yes: i did the research for my MIL, she keep giving me articles on why i should CC so this time i'm giving her articles why shes wrong. just being cheeky but i completely agree with you. listen to your instincts.

[reAllytee]

My goodness why cant people back off & let us do what we feel is right ?!?!?!

Nat seriously look at E & tell me you are doing wrong ?!?!?!? Now say that to anyone who next says anything to you !!!!! As for your DP he knows you are doing a great job he is just worried about you i think & trying to find a solution iykwim. They like to "fix" things our boys !
You are doing great so if anyone wants "proof" give em the salute :p

[CandyJane]

:yes: i did the research for my MIL, she keep giving me articles on why i should CC so this time i'm giving her articles why shes wrong. just being cheeky but i completely agree with you. listen to your instincts.
Hi Andrea, my mother recently gave me all these newspaper clippings she had been saving up basically telling me that because I am not a strict disciplinarian my son is going to turn into a monster :rolleyes: . As hard as it was, instead of having a go at her, I politely told her I would read her articles (and did) IF she would read mine. She agreed.

I gave her a copy of Deborah Jacksons book '10 rules for soothing your crying baby' - REALLY good book (and not too long, a very easy read) and insisted she read it.

We still don't see eye to eye, but she now sees where I am coming from and has backed off considerably. Would definitely recommend the book.

CJ

[1+1=5]

aww lol I so understand the need to give them something in writing ..it jhust sucks we have to justify choices in parenting hey?

xoxox

with what i went through with MIL for owen, i'm arming myself for the second one :laughing:. she told me to just put him in the cot and go and do some gardening, they will eventually shut up :eek:. thats what she told me to do, poor DH looked really hurt to know that she did that to him. theres CC and theres complete neglect.
i shall present a nice folder of articles for her this time to shut her up :)

[1+1=5]

Hi Andrea, my mother recently gave me all these newspaper clippings she had been saving up basically telling me that because I am not a strict disciplinarian my son is going to turn into a monster :rolleyes: . As hard as it was, instead of having a go at her, I politely told her I would read her articles (and did) IF she would read mine. She agreed.


CJ, i also get newspaper clippings about anything she thinks i'm doing wrong including circumcision. she is still giving them to me event hough DS is 3.5.....WTF?? its kind of too late now but i'm willing to play her game and i'll match her this time with what you did, i read yours if you read mine.

[Pixie]

My goodness why cant people back off & let us do what we feel is right ?!?!?!

Nat seriously look at E & tell me you are doing wrong ?!?!?!? Now say that to anyone who next says anything to you !!!!! As for your DP he knows you are doing a great job he is just worried about you i think & trying to find a solution iykwim. They like to "fix" things our boys !
You are doing great so if anyone wants "proof" give em the salute :p

YOu are so right Ally he said to me last night I am not telling you to change your parenting, but I see you crying and saying you can't cope and I just want to help poor guy I lubs him :D

Thanks so much guys!!!
I know but I just want to show the people that tell me hey do CC OK this is why I won't and when they say why I said ------ and they go so where did you learn that then...well here ya go that's why I want them + yanno my DP is old he he he's 40 so most of our friends or his work mates have kids my age LOL so their ideas are a little aged he he....gotta love the older men eh :d RAHHHHHHH OK someone help me

[masterchefMamma]

Hi Pixie,
I have jus read your two links and have to say that they are very interesting.
One thing that really annoys me and make my hair stand up is how people can judge you and say to you.... do this or do that, epecially when you dont believe in it.
I have for the last week been using the CC technique with our 9 month old daughter.
We have tried everything under the sun and it hasnt worked so this is our last resort. I have had three months of stress and a very unhappy baby girl.
And yes I do understand that babies gt unsettled and are not supposed to sleep at night until they are much older.
In the last week that I have been doing this with her I am in there the minute her whinge or cry is anything but something minor or a grizzle. Although last night it was on for young and old as it was 38 degrees here in Sydney!
For me its important like the articles say that she knows mum is here and will come back when she needs me.
The last thing I want to do is leave her anxious especially as she is so so young and is still just in the process of figuring things out.
I just wanted to show my support of you as a parent who is using the technique as I have many many firends, family and outsiders who always judging me and are telling me what to do and it just gets under my skin.
The articles I read have only further cemented the fact that she needs me and its obvious that she does when her cry gets histerical and out of hand.
I think for me a big issues is that at the end of the day my mothers instinct plays a huge part in everything.
My MIL constantly floods my inbox with research for this and research for that...there is research for everything! One week I was soooo caught up researching everything that I forgot I was being a mother.
Now I am not saying that I am going to be naive and go off my instinct alone but there is a lot of things these days that seem to be the flavour of the month...its good one month but the next it i going to cause you child harm.
Anywas...I am blabbering now but like I said I just wanted to show my support for you and say thanks for very ineresting articles!
:wave:

[Pixie]

Aww Thank you so much for that lovely post. I too actually tired the method you are doing it just didn't work for me/us so we stopped I hope you and I and lots of other do what we need to do for our own babies and stop having to feel like we need to tell people WHY!!!:hugs::hugs:

[masterchefMamma]

Aww Thank you so much for that lovely post. I too actually tired the method you are doing it just didn't work for me/us so we stopped I hope you and I and lots of other do what we need to do for our own babies and stop having to feel like we need to tell people WHY!!!:hugs::hugs:


My thougths exactly! I just feel like I constantly have to answer to this and that and all I really want to do it be a good mum and make my own decisions!
Hugs to you too...:hugs:

[natasha]

Screw anyone who doesn't agree with you hun. Its your baby, you get to make the decisions.

I do use CC however after reading some of the articles here im not sure i even do it right.:laughing:

I dont leave DD screaming. If she is whingy and moaning, I will go in, settle her down and then leave.....go back in in 2 mins ect(cc). But if she really starts crying and getting hysterical, i have to bring her out into the living room and calm her down before trying again. This has always worked for us. I never leave her to cry herslef to sleep, she just gets fed up with whinging and stops.
Is this CC??:detective:

Stick to your guns Nat. You know best when it comes to Eliza.

Sorry, dont have any articles. I just wanted to pop my head in and tell you to tell them all to get lost.:D

[pookiesossige]

Ta for those articles, Pixie, they were a really good read... I've bookmarked them (I particually liked the Pinky McKay one) just in case I'm ever wanting to read it again- but thankfully I don't need articles and reports to justify the way I parent to family and friends. I'm so sorry you feel this pressure to explain why you don't do cc :( :hugs:

Thanks for such a wonderful thread! :yes:

[KapowSchazam]

http://www.earlychildhoodaustralia.org.au/pdf/papers/april2003_aaimhi_controlled_crying.pdf

:yelclap:

[itssunday]

Hey Nat, you're not alone. This is something I feel VERY strongly about since going through hell and back with my daughter and her poor sleep habits. EVERYONE said "do controlled crying" as if there was no other alternative... well HEL-LO!!.... I found two books offering no-cry solutions and they work!!
I only wish that the mums reading the CC threads would take a look at the articles you have mentioned (as well as what is written in Elizabeth Pantley's book) so they can realise the harm they are doing to their babies. (I'll probably get another warning for that comment... :shame: )
what books were they, would love to read them.

[itssunday]

its great to see support and no judgement in here, it's like the minute you get pregnant everyone has an opinion on what you are doing wrong and how you should do it their way!
this is my second child; the first time i was like a ship without a rudder and all the people around me were waves tossing me this way and that. the result was a very unhappy baby who was tired and hungry much of the time and in need of comforting. ( i think back and think how poposterous it was to go against every God given natural instint in order to control this defenseless, reliant, vunerable child).
this time i am just smiling and saying "yeah thanks i'll think about it" when people tell me to wake my baby so she doesn't sleep too long or only feed on one side or not to cuddle her too much, to let her cry intsead of soothing her etc, etc.
i am just giving her all the love she needs and the proof is in the puddin' : she is fat, healthy, happy and sleeping through the night (has been sleeping through since 4 weeks old, give or take a couple of unsettled nights).
so just wanted to share that with you and encourage you all to do what you know is best, after all you are the parents! the parenting police can do things their way and raise their own kids, these are your children and you are doing a fabulous job.
keep up the good work and keep up the cuddles and love.

[MordecaiAliVanAllenO'Shea]

Pixie,
I too was surprised when my DH suggested CC one night. He is Indian and I said, why are you even suggesting that - I know they don't do it at all in India, they never leave a bub to cry - he said, yeah you're right, it's just that you are getting so stressed and I'd heard of it and wanted to help you. He was actually relieved when I said, DS is crying because he needs or wants me and while it's tiring it's my job as his mummy to be there for him as long as he needs me. I don't see that it is possible for my DS to be "too attached."

I know my DH gets frustrated because he wants to help me out at night but lacks what he calls my "magic fix all's" - breasts to feed!

Mel

[BabyJoy]

what books were they, would love to read them.

The No-Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley and The Baby Whisperer by Tracy Hogg.

Both fantastic reading IMHO!

By the way, I though your last post was brilliant... I totally agree with you.

[itssunday]

thanks so much, will get them asap and have a read :).
have a great week ;)