Tizzie Hall

[lachies_mum]

Can anyone tell me briefly about this book and her techniques in getting baby to sleep? I am thinking of trying to find this book if it is any good.:)

[melfunction]

I didn't like Tizzie Hall's methods at all. I was very grateful to find a book called 'Sleep Baby Sleep' by Dr William and Martha Sears.

Much kinder on parents and baby :)

[Spewiesmum]

Love Tizzie!

We started using the routines when DS was 7 weeks - he's now almost 13 months.

Very happy with the results, but they did not happen overnight. We worked hard (consistency is important).

DS is an extremely happy child and we have no dramas with sleeptimes.

We only vary the routines to suit 'us' - not for family or friends. DS handles the alterations well and easily slips back into the routine.

[Mischief]

Everything SM said!

We love her in this house! Save Our Sleep could be retitled to Save Our Sanity! :)

Oliver has been on her routine since about 3 months old. He's sleeping thru the night 7-7 most nights now.

At first I found the routine restrictive, but now I dont. I dont even stress if Oliver misses a sleep, because I know I can pick it up later that afternoon and be back on the routine.

Its so nice not having to deal with an overtired baby. :) Oliver knows exactly what happens when now. The second his head touches the mattress in the cot he is sound asleep! (most of the time)

The age of your bub would be on the following routine. (same as me)

7am up and feed milk
8am solids
9am bed
11am wake baby (if he hasnt already woken) and give milk feed
12pm solids
1pm bed
3pm wake baby and give milk feed
430pm take baby for walk or drive to encourage a nap, some babies dont need or want this though. Wake by 515 if they do fall asleep.
5pm solids
6ish-pm milk feed (aim to have it finished by 650)
7pm bed
1030pm dreamfeed

Oliver has his dreamfeed at 10pm because it is what suits us.

He also has his evening solids at 630pm. Because he doesnt want them at 5pm. :)

PM me anytime if you want more information! :)

[pookiesossige]

I didn't like Tizzie Hall's methods at all. I was very grateful to find a book called 'Sleep Baby Sleep' by Dr William and Martha Sears.

Much kinder on parents and baby :)

:yes: exactly what you said, Mel! I practically have the entire Sears library here :rolleyes:

[Mischief]

Just remember, whatever you try, Sears or Tizzie.....you need to be dedicated to it. :)

Tizzies routines have taken alot of work, but I'm so happy with the results. I noticed a difference almost straight away.

However others have tried them too and not had success. Each baby is different. :)

Whatever you decide to do, allow yourself 2 weeks on it before deciding it doesnt work. :)

[annb]

I think Tizzie is great as well, I used her 8wks to Start Solids routine first off and even tho it took a couple of weeks it was worth it in the end, then I continued on her routines, DS is now almost 2 and has been a fantastic sleeper, no tantrums at bedtime, no 5pm arsenic hour, has a great daytime nap....all of which I put down to the great routine, I will certainly be buying her book for DS#2 due in a few weeks and implementing it as early as i can

[vanessasoma]

Didn't work for us. We tried for 6 weeks, very strictly. There are not enough naps during the day for a baby (like ours) that only sleeps half an hour at a time. This book means that sometimes she would be up for 4.5 hours between sleeps, not good for a 4 month old. She also says that babies "throw up to get attention" how ********! Tizzy wrote this before she had a child. Wonder how it is working out for her now?

[garfield13]

I can also recommend this book, we followed it since birth and loved it.

The main thing is following the routines for naps & feeds and making sure all bubs needs are met, then when putting them to bed teaching them to self settle - there is a table in the book on what to do depending on age.
There is no controlled crying or cio, only letting bubs fuss /protest.
Big W had it cheapest when i got it while pg.

[mumcha]

I have this book and it worked great with DS1 but with DS2 I tried for a year to make him conform to her routines and all it did was cause me alot of stress and anexiety. Once I let him do his own thing life became alot easier.

Its a very strict routine and can be quite daunting to a first time mother. Although once in the routine it is pretty easy to stick to and allows you to be able to plan your days around your childs sleep times.

Keep in mind too she has never had her own children so really hasn't had the old heart strings pulled - makes a huge difference when your getting upset too.

[daisy1984]

No I would not recommend this book at all. In fact, I couldn't think of a book I'd recommend less than this one. . Anyone that says it that it would probably do no harm to let a baby "protest cry" for hours on end with no comfort at all is not someone I'd want to take advice from.

[garfield13]

Keep in mind too she has never had her own children so really hasn't had the old heart strings pulled - makes a huge difference when your getting upset too.

True, when she wrote the book originally, but now is pg with her second child and is still promoting the book and her techniques

[Mrs Nietzsche]

She can hardly come out and say 'oh sorry, now I realise I was talking out my ar4e' can she

[garfield13]

Agreed, but she is still appearing on tv & at baby shows and has another book coming out early next year. I was actually luck enough to meet her earlier this year and she is still very much behind the sos book

[Admum]

There is no controlled crying or cio, only letting bubs fuss /protest.


The author calling a baby's cries 'fusses' or 'protests' doesn't change the fact that it is still ignoring baby's communication - at the end of the day, that is still CC.

:laughing: Maire!

[elleandsam]

We tried it and it didn't work for us, we now just feed her when she's hungry and put her down when she's tired, and she seems happier then she was before. She didn't want the routine, and she's starting to be in a routine all of her own.

[garfield13]

The author calling a baby's cries 'fusses' or 'protests' doesn't change the fact that it is still ignoring baby's communication - at the end of the day, that is still CC.

:laughing: Maire!

As far as I thought CC was leaving a baby to cry (full crying, fussing, anything) for a set amount and go back in to bub then back out for a set time and back and forth again and again. Save our sleep does not have this.
Once you leave bub to fuss / protest, if they are not asleep in the time as per the book, you go to bub and stay with them until they are asleep - not leave them
Personally I think there is a big difference between leaving a bub to have a little fuss and leaving a bub to cry. I never left dd to cry. If she ever went from fussing or protesting to crying or getting upset, I went to her straight away and stayed with here until she was asleep as per the book recommends

[BabelFish]

As much as I think Tizzie Hall is mostly an idiot, I don't think that she advocates strict CC.

She talks about listening to your baby's cries and differentiating, and never, ever leaving them if they're really in distress.

I think her time frames are WAY too long, but apart from that I think she actually is closer to what you should be doing with your baby, if you are trying to learn how to listen to it communicate.

[JessicaCupcake]

we started out using Tizzie for our DD who was 21 months at the time... after we got into very bad habits after a bad bout of illness for the whole family.

To give you an idea, before Tizzie she was falling asleep on the lounge in front of the telly (eek) ... then being transferred to her cot .... then on her first wake usually around 10.30 or 11pm she would come into bed with us and sleep the rest of the night there ... she was a wiggly sleeper so it wasn't fun sharing ... plus I'm due with our second in late dec so we needed to get her back into her bed and sleeping well.

We started the "Deep End Approach" and it was HARD going .... there is LOTS of crying ... but after 2 days she went down in her cot wide awake calm and happy to be going to bed without a peep .... now she always has a smile as you kiss her goodnight.

It's been 3 weeks and she still wakes a couple times a night .. but she will generally resettle herself within 10 -20 mins.

I found the idea of leaving her to cry without being able to soothe her at any point in the middle of the night with the night wakes VERY hard to do and to cope with .... so I called Trescillian to see what they suggested with their night waking treatments ... and they suggested that Tizzie's time frames were a bit long (at 20 months you basically leave them to cry without going in for up to 2.5 hrs if you can stand it) .... the Trescillian girls suggest you give them about 20 mins if the crying isn't emotional or too distressed .. then go in a and calm them and give them another 10-20mins or so then go back in and calm them and then stay with them till they are asleep. You can keep going in and out as much as you can stand.

I found Tizzie's tecniques were HARD CORE but they definately without a doubt worked for my little one ... if I was stronger I know her night waking tecniques would have worked much more efficively ... but I just couldn't handle the night crying.

I say give it a go ... try and be strong for as many nights as you can ... and see how you go after that ..

Hope that helps!

[BabelFish]

It's leaving kids for up to 2.5 hours to cry that has sparked the research on cortisol levels in the brain and the long-term damage it can cause. I think it's disgusting and damaging, and it doesn't matter whether or not the parents are tough enough to handle it - it puts the child's mental health at risk. That is NOT controlled crying and it's NOT what CC is about.

If you have to be really tough to listen to something that your child is going through, then it's just plain wrong. Or it's child abuse. Both, really.

[Boobycino]

I dont like Tizzie Hall because when I read the first few pages I didn't feel like she was coming from a space of love. I read it with a 6 week old who was still waking every 2 hours and feeding 8 times a day and the book nearly made me cry because it just didn't feel nice to read.

The fact of the matter for me is though, she's not a mother - or she wasn't when she wrote "save our sleep" - I'd love to chat to her now that she's had a bub of her own.

The first requirement of someone I'd take advise from about my baby is someone who's had one themselves. It'd be like getting someone who'd only used video arcade race games to teach you how to drive.

Thats not to say everything in her book is incorrect and that I complete disagree with everything she has to say. I found the routines useful as a rough guide, or get an idea of what bub COULD be doing as he got older etc.... but.... thats about all it was good for. Its a reference guide, not something I set my life to.

And she lost credibility for me as soon as I read that as a part of the routine breast feeding mums have to get up BEFORE their babies to breast feed and then WAKE their newborns at 7am. Err...I think not...

Though I do understand where Tizzie Hall is coming from. I could have written an objective, non-emotional book when I was a childcarer! When I was a childcarer in a nursery I could easily tell between all 13 babies their individual cries and also whether their cries were falling asleep cries, distressed cries, cuddle me cries etc.

With my own son though. If he's in a different room with other babies and I hear ANY cry, I think its him and I want to run to him! (even if it wasn't him crying!) As a mother, I have completely lost my ability to listen to his cries objectively.

BUT honestly! Who wants to sit back and disconnect themselves emotionally for their baby? Not me :no:

I just think you can get similar information in a better format than Tizzie Halls book.

And I'm sure there are plenty of ladies out there suggesting them!

I like Pantleys No Cry Sleep Solution - because its more like a menu of ideas to piece together that you can make work for your values, your feelings, your baby - and she's a mum of 4 so she just seems to get the heart ache and struggle of it all.

[lou333]

Just a suggestion - see if you can borrow it from your local library rather than buying it. Our library has a few copies. Then you can see for yourself if Tizzie's methods might suit you.

[lou333]

whoops - just realised how old this thread was!

[garfield13]

The fact of the matter for me is though, she's not a mother - or she wasn't when she wrote "save our sleep" - I'd love to chat to her now that she's had a bub of her own.

I just wanted to say I have met with her since having a bub & still fully supports her book.



BUT honestly! Who wants to sit back and disconnect themselves emotionally for their baby? Not me :no:


I didnt find this with sos at all. I followed the BF routines from birth & never disconnected myself emotionally from dd

[BabelFish]

She can hardly come out and say 'oh sorry, now I realise I was talking out my ar4e' can she?
Pure gold.

Chel - I agree 100%. I hated her book the first time I read it. Just felt wrong and horrible. Still does, with my second on the way, and I've discovered that allowing my daughter to lead the way has led to a sleeping, eating, healthy, happy, beautiful baby who was a dream to look after and still is.

[earthfairy]

I also used SOS & cant recommend it enough!
It worked so well for us & our DD - took 3 days & she is a great sleeper, is always put to bed awake & puts her self to sleep :thumbsup:

I will just remind everyone that this thread is actually in the PRO controlled crying section too :)

[Admum]

Sure it's in the pro CC section - but plenty of people who recommend this book - and I believe even the author herself - seem to maintain that Tizzie Hall does not advocate controlled crying. Apparently it's 'controlled comforting'.

Yet her name always pops up in the pro controlled crying threads?

Controlled crying issues aside - I don't like this book because I believe babies are humans, not robots :) And I believe regimented routines with a one-size-fits-all style of approach IS NOT the ideal for human babies with unique and individual needs.

If parents are struggling with their babies needs, as many, many parents do, I believe they need to be reassured, encouraged and supported to respond to ALL their babies needs, and be provided with CORRECT information and reassurance about the very normal and real range of babies and toddlers behaviour and sleep.

I also really dislike her breastfeeding 'advice' and information - I think it's misguided at best and dangerously perpetuating of myths at worst.

[BabelFish]

Yep - she shouldn't be in the controlled crying section because what she advocates is not CC at all. It's far more dangerous and unrestricted. I showed it to one of the midwives in hospital after I had DD and she read the breastfeeding stuff etc and laughed her head off. That was enough for me.

You're absolutely right. Babies are people not robots. Expecting a newborn to sleep through the night and feeling like there's something `wrong' if it doesn't is just ridiculous. I can't imagine not comforting a very young baby when needed - and not in a controlled, automaton-like way, either. But you know, old-fashioned comfort? Hugs? Cuddles? Human contact? Why should children be `trained' from birth? If it's just to make life easier for me, I can do without it thanks.

[garfield13]

If leaving a baby to protest cry for a few minutes then staying with your baby until they are asleep is worse than cc then I must have missed something.

Like all parents have different parenting styles that suit them & their baby, mw also have different opinions. I had a mw at my hospy that wasnt a fan of sos & another mw (who was one of the lactation consultants they send for home visits) a big fan of it.
Each to their own I say, for me this book was great, as another post stated, the way she parented her dd led to her sleeping, eating, healthy, happy, beautiful baby who was a dream to look after and still is, I went for a different method & my dd is also this way.
It just goes to show that different things work for different families

[cmd'smum]

Seeing that this thread is now very old and has pretty much run it's course, I will now close it.

Thanks!