Feeling stuck, confused and inbetween

[MilkOnTap]

I am really confused and emotional now so please bear with me... Bekky's thread about VBAC's has just brought to light something that I have been in denial about - and I think now is the best time to get it off my chest.

My second ectopic pregnancy did a lot of damage to me physically. It was on the edge of my uterus and tube, so when it ruptured it destroyed what remained of my tube and also damaged my uterus. I lost a lot of blood, and I lost my baby.

Knowing full well that the scar tissue on my uterus could haemmorage if I went into labour naturally, I have been content with the 'fact' that I would need a c/sect. Up until the last few days.

I really want to have that natural labour experience. I have had my heart set on a water birth, and now I feel like if I agree to have a c/sect now then I could be setting myself up for ONLY c/sects in future with NO possibility of a VB.

I haven't talked with my obs about this yet, but I plan to when I see him next. I just feel really confused about it all. Especially since everyone on the VBAC threads are here because they have had ceasars before - not because of damage of an ectopic pregnancy.

I am a bit upset cause its only just hit me that I have had two babies taken out of my tummy already; and I dont want that to be the way its always going to be. I want to give birth naturally and I think that if I dont try and push for it then I may regret it later on...

Anyway - thats my emotional turmoil for now. Sorry ladies - carry on... :o

[RedPanda]

PL, I know every ectopic pregnancy is different in terms of the damage it does physically, but I just wanted to give you hope. My cousin had an ectopic pregnancy and had a tube removed (it was damaged too badly to keep). She was pregnant six months later and had a VB. I'm not sure if there was any damage to her uterus though, and I don't want to give you false hope - I imagine every case is very different.

Even if a VB is not possible, you can still make a C/S a good birthing experience. Becca74 has mentioned a great site (birthrites I think) that helps women plan medically necessary caesarians. Good luck with everything - I hope you get the birth you want.

[sopolicha]

I am definitely talking out of turn here, and by no means do I mean to cause you any more anguish.

Maybe you have to look at things a bit differently and say to yourself I have been through so much before with my pregnancies and my body, that it has gotten to the point where I don't want to risk anything else by attempting a natural birth.

Of course for your first birth you want to do it your way, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, but the question is would you still want to do it if there was a greater risk of you and/or your baby coming to harm? I know the incidence of uterine rupture is pretty small, but do you want to take it.

It is so very easy to get caught up in the idea of a VBAC, but you have to remember you and your body have gone through so much more than a lot of other people who attempt a VBAC. It is very hard to accept things that you can't change IYKWIM.

Go easy on yourself :hugs: .

[jamb]

Sopolicha, what wise words.

After all you have been through PL, enjoy now, being pregnant, growing your little one. Try (hard I know :rolleyes: ) to not to stress about the birth, what will be will be, and the holding of bub in your arms is the best bit, no matter how they get there.
:hugs:

[Funkychicken]

I am a bit upset cause its only just hit me that I have had two babies taken out of my tummy already; and I dont want that to be the way its always going to be. I want to give birth naturally and I think that if I dont try and push for it then I may regret it later on...


Adele, I was wondering if you have talked about your babies in the same sense as you would tell a birth story? It can be incredibly healing to 'tell' your birth story, regardless of how far along you were when you baby was born, or in which way your baby 'came'. I hope I am not talking out of turn by suggesting this, I just feel it may bring some healing to you to talk about your babies that came before this pregnancy and may help you to come to terms with what has happened.
Take care, and remember you are human before anything else and it is human emotions that talk loudly. :) :hugs:

[MilkOnTap]

I was wondering if you have talked about your babies in the same sense as you would tell a birth story? It can be incredibly healing to 'tell' your birth story, regardless of how far along you were when you baby was born...
I actually have - but its not posted on the forum. I wrote it for a book that is going to be released in the new year and even though I think I've dealt with some of the emotions of losing my two bubs, maybe there is still some part of me that hasn't fully accepted it.

My babies were 6 and 7 weeks consecutively when I lost them via ectopic pregnancies, and though I grieved for the first one emotionally, I never allowed myself to bond with the second one because the doctors couldn't find it on the ultrasound (for 3 weeks!)

Maybe I've never grieved for my second baby, and cause the second ectopic caused the most amount of physical damage, then perhaps there are some issues that need to be dealt with there...

Oh I dont know... All afternoon I've been in tears. I'm so hormonal and emotional now, I just dont know what to do :crying:


Love Ally

[Funkychicken]

Firstly, sorry Ally, I just realised you used to be Ally84. For some reason i had it that you were Adele84. My apologies-I do know who you are, it was only the name I had muddled! :p
You have been through so much over the last year or so (from the posts I have read of yours) that you are bound to be emotional. Hell, any pregnant woman would be if their partner was away like yours is! So big :hugs: to help dry the tears. From what I have experienced of friend's miscarriages, it takes so much time to work through it all and for some it takes longer than other's. What I ahve learned though is that you don't 'get over it' or 'past it' you grieve and over time the pian lessens. It doesn't 'go away' as such so you are bound to be feeling very confused. You have probably already done this or been advised to but speaking with a grief counsellor can be really beneficial. If you can find someone who deals in ante-natal grief and/or depression, even better. Allow yourself to be kind to yourself a little bit each day. Tell yourself how wonderful you are and what an amazing job your body is doing right now-growing your bubba. And keep talking about it. Unloading is such a great way to get things clear. :hugs:

[MilkOnTap]

If you can find someone who deals in ante-natal grief and/or depression, even better
Do you think it could be possible that these crazy things in my heard are early warning signs of AND? I was talking to hubby last night and he seems concerned that the depression that I sunk into when he was in the gulf could return during the pregnancy...

BTW - Dont worry about the name thing - I think there are still a few ppl who dont realise that I've changed my username LOL

[Tam-I-Am]

Ally, ante-natal depression is a real disease, and should never be taken lightly. If you even suspect that that might be the case, you need to make an appointment with your GP asap.

As for the other, I agree with the other wise ladies here. It would do you in good stead to seek a psychologist to deal with the issues that have arisen since falling pregnant and finding out about having to have a c/s.

Are you aware that with a GP referral there are some psychologists' whose fees are either fully or partially subsidised by medicare for 12 sessions? This might be something to keep in mind....I honestly think that the emotions that you dealt with before you fell pregnant with regard to your ectopic babies might have cropped up again - both because you ARE pregnant now, so are in some form, reliving what happened before, and because your emotions leave you more vulnerable than when you're not pregnant.

Good luck Ally, I really hope you find some peace, in whatever happens. :hugs:

[MilkOnTap]

Ally, ante-natal depression is a real disease, and should never be taken lightly. If you even suspect that that might be the case, you need to make an appointment with your GP asap.

....I honestly think that the emotions that you dealt with before you fell pregnant with regard to your ectopic babies might have cropped up again - both because you ARE pregnant now, so are in some form, reliving what happened before, and because your emotions leave you more vulnerable than when you're not pregnant.

Good luck Ally, I really hope you find some peace, in whatever happens. :hugs:

Thank you Clarabelle. I will chat with my obs about it when I see him next week. If I feel like things are getting worse then I will see my GP sooner. I remember the depression that I was in when hubby was gone, and I guess cause he is gone now and I'm home alone ALL day and ALL night then its easy to let my mind wander.

Maybe I should write my 'birth story' again - but focus mostly on the second ectopic. Perhaps that will help 'out' some emotions and anger about the situation that I was in? Well, it cant hurt, right?

[jcb]

I just wanted to give you a big :hugs:....

I myself had a ectopic...mine was a little higher up the tube then yours was, I am lucky that it didn't do to much damage physically (sp) but emotionally I am still trying....I hide from DH and family as they I know they think I should be over it....

I feel for you and understand how worried you may be...My doc said he couldn't see any reason why I can't have VB with the next one but I will have the same worrys as I have heard of it rupturing during labour....

But I just really wanted to give you a :hugs:....If you don't mind me asking how long after your last ectopic did you fall pregnant....

:hugs: :hugs:

[bekkyboo]

Ally hun, Im sorry my thread has brought this heartache...

I was told during my pregnancy that i would be safer for me to give birth through C/S as they were unsure how my heart would cope with pushing. when they told me this - i was fine, and Hubby and i dicussed it all throughly - and descided it was best to go this route and had our C/S booked in. We told them that if i went spontanously i wanted to labour as long as possible and see if i could get through. Not long after my waters broke - G's heart rate was 198, which they were really concerned about (concidering my heart was already tacicardic (sp?)) so they rushed me into threatre. It all happened so quick that i can barely remember much. I didnt think that at the time i would really regret not having a VB - i was high as a kite and giggling my head off.

I didnt get to hold G for 2 hours after the birth due to miscommunication with middies and recovery staff - so that depressed me, and then i didnt bond with G really for weeks. I know that VB wouldnt guarentee these things wouldnt happen.

I only started to get passionate about having a VBAC in the past couple of months where my pangs of jealousy reading other VB stories are getting to me. My PND is worse than it ever has been - and i think this makes it worse.


Please remember - even for me (who desperately wants a VBAC) - the safety of my child and myself come above those wants.

[MilkOnTap]

I .If you don't mind me asking how long after your last ectopic did you fall pregnant....

My first ectopic was in my left tube which was removed. But the second one implanted in the TINY remnant of the left tube and my uterus. The first one was in June 05 and the second one was Sept 05. Since Sept hubby and I haven't REALLY been able to time TTCing very well (hes in the navy) and so our baby is a homecoming baby from his latest deployment.


I only started to get passionate about having a VBAC in the past couple of months where my pangs of jealousy reading other VB stories are getting to me. My PND is worse than it ever has been - and i think this makes it worse.
Its not your fault - these floods of emotions would have all come out sooner or later. Better now, right? I think that my own desires to have a VBAC have stemmed from the same place as yours have. That absolute desire to be able to give birth the way that nature intended; the accomplishment of knowing that YES I did it!; the emotional empowerment afterwards and absolute satisfaction that my baby has had THE BEST start to life. I feel really strongly about it. I will add though, that IF my babies life was at risk, then I would have no hesitancy in having a c/sect. My baby comes first, and I come second. But, if there is no real reason that I cant have a VBAC apart from scar tissue, then I want to do it.

You mentioned that you suffer from PND. Do you think that you had AND during the pregnancy too? In the last few months of my husbands deployment I became very depressed, and through conversation with hubby last night he said he is concerned that I might get depressed during or after the birth of our baby.

I dont want to over analyse everything though. I'm pregnant, so obviously hormonal. I dont want to label myself as being 'depressed' but I know that if I need extra care and assistance through this pregnancy due to lack of support from my husband (not his choice - because of his deployments) then maybe I need to take that extra step now?

I think sometimes I do rely on his support too much - I hate it when he isn't home. He is my best friend as well as my husband and he has been there for me through thick and thin. We love each other so much, and I dont know if maybe I'm just frustrated because all of a sudden I find myself pregnant, no one around and having to be independant once again. Oh I dont know... :confused:

[Chub Chub]

Ally in response to your opening post.....I don't think you need to make a decision right now, ponder it for a while.

I had an emergency c sect with my DD and although I didn't have any pre existing damage I KNOW in my heart of hearts that my DD probably would not birthed naturally but I am a big believer that YOU know your body better than anyone! Don't underestimate the healing ability of a human body, especially a womans body. As your pregnancy advances I think you will know what your body will be capable of.

Another thing to think about is also the impacts of an elective c sect will have on your body as well. I am sure you know these. But the best advice I can give is to be informed when discussing your birth with your OB. Yes you have the most precious cargo on board but ensure that you are comfortable with which ever birthing method you choose. Also dont be put on the spot with your OB when discussing it. Make sure you question your OB, ensure you go home and think about it, research it, post it on Bub Hub if you need info and discuss it with your DH.

Most importantly this is your decision and as long as you are at ease with the method of birth then BRILLIANT. You will have anyone and everyone give their opinion on birth but this is one time when it is ALL ABOUT YOU! I have no issues with either a caesar or VB but as long as this is what the mother wants. Make sure that this is right for you.

Best of Luck Ally,:)

Sara

[bekkyboo]

Ally, Yeah i did have Pre Natal Depression too... I think mine came from being such a rude shock - Hubby and i had only been dating weeks when i fell...

they say if you have had depression in the past you are more prone to PND, i think at least in my case this was true. I think the fact i didnt bond with G for ages had alot to do with it. and i honestly beleive it also had a lot to do with not holding him for such a long time.... I felt very removed for him and the birth.

I think i rely on hubbys support alot too - Just this morning when im trying depserately to save money and not make unnessecary phone calls, i rang him on his mobile at work - because i couldnt stop G crying. In all honesty - i just wanted to hear his voice... I always ring and ask for advice, when i know that i could prob do it myself, i just want to hear it from him - IYKWIM...


Oh on the whole independance thing - I hear ya... I was off work from 7 weeks prg... I felt so lonely and cr@p most of the pregnancy....

[MilkOnTap]

Thanks ladies... just talking about these things really helps. I'm going to call my Nan - she always makes me feel better and in some ways she seems to understand me a lot more than the rest of my family. Maybe its cause she lost two bubs before going on to have her 5 children...

[becca74]

Huge Hugs :hugs: :hugs:

I second the advice to go and seek a counsellor for how you are feeling, as I was sickeningly depressed (was at the brink of suicidal) at the beginning of my pregnancy this time last year, thinking that I was facing the prospect of another caesarean that I really didnt want. so although I havent had an ectopic, I know how it feels to face the prospect of not achieving a vb. even tho I'd had a vbac with DS2, he came a month early, and was much smaller.....I was depressed that I thought I would never be able to find out if I could give birth at full term, iykwim. (gee the worries I had seem pathetic compared to what you are faced with!)

Go and get several more opinions. never just settle for the first diagnosis. It might be that you will find a careprovider who has enough faith and knowledge about your circumstances that you might find that suport you need. UR is extremely rare, and can even happen in first time mums in labour, so isnt necessarily connected to previous scarring on the uterus. Usually it more likely to be induction drugs that are the culprit with UR, but hospitals never seem to share that risk with women when they go in for an induction.....

definately check out www.birthrites.org. The reason my 2nd vbac failed was because I had my heart set on a vb and didnt want to consider a further c/sec into the equation. Even tho my c/sec was unnecessary, I think that even if it had been necessary, I had had my heart set so strongly on a vb that I would have no doubt felt equally depressed. Birthrites helped me to learn about having an empowered birth, and creating a sacred birth experience no matter what the exit your baby takes. If, God forbid, you do need a c/section, there should be no reason why you cant make the experience more personal and beautiful. the Birthrites website has a web page about creating a positive caesarean experience.

I do understand your instinct for wanting a vaginal birth.....I really do think it is something deep within us that desires it - probably the fact that we have the bits so want to use them for what they are designed for, iykwim, we use all our other body parts, its not like we say "oh, I cant be bothered to use my right arm" and then just treat it's existence as irrelevant for our entire lives, so it is natural we want to use our womb and our vagina...).

A friend of mine recently ended up having a further c/sec after trying for a hbac. The way she put it made so much sense: she wears glasses....is she less of a person because her eyes dont work as well as other peoples? no....so too with her womb and vagina. She is still just as much a woman. She tried them out at least, and she is at peace with that.

No matter what the outcome, know that there is alot of love and support here, and we will help you to bring to life the sacred birth experience you dream of :hugs:

P.S. If you want the opinion of experienced midwives, you might be able to ask a question at this site:

http://www.midwiferytoday.com/forums/

[Pixie]

Aww Ally, I hope when we're on our little drive the other day I didn't upset you over my details of C/sections and my knowledge that the hospital gave me. I am a bit worried now. YOu know you can call me any time.

I understand about saftey of the baby very much but I would also get a 2nd opinion as well could be worth the money just to give you a piece of mind. You have to decided what to do with the options you're given. Never rule out having a VBAC I haven't.

You have time on your hands chat to your DR's try and speak to a social worker if you can at the RWH they are really good as well.
xx

[MilkOnTap]

Aww Ally, I hope when we're on our little drive the other day I didn't upset you over my details of C/sections and my knowledge that the hospital gave me. I am a bit worried now.
No, no - you didnt upset me at all. I think it had been on my mind before we chatted and maybe that too brought to light how much I want to try and have a VB. So dont go beating yourself up silly! :hugs:

The baby will always come first (and my psychological wellbeing) so I will ask my obs about it when I see him next Friday. I'm definitely going to try and push for a VB providing my baby is okay and all things support it. It may not be until 30-something weeks that we can make the final decision; possibly later? I think I've let this get to me a bit too much, and I'm going to drown my sorrows with a cup of hot chockie and a couple of bikkies. :rolleyes:

[Lila]

pink lady :hugs: :hugs: first off all a couple of those- i think you REALLY need them


well - i ditto what all the others said, but also even if i get some people jumping up my throat now- i would book an ele. c/s.
i would write a GOOD birthplan for this (i had a FANTASTIC ONE - if you are in need for one :) )
- with watching bubby being born
- skin to skin
- breastfeeding while still in theatre
- not having to give bubby away,
just like after a vb-
anyway.

i would really consider yours and bubbies safety as highest priority!!

i did have an uterus rupture with my vbac and was lucky to keep my uterus and have a healthy baby.
this time i didn´t gamble - no VBA2C but a straight forward (well it´s a LONG story....) cs

you had damage done to your uterus, please remember that.
i would set my heart on the best cs i could possibly get (like i did) and nag everybody (docs, obs, middies....) until they listen and read your plan (i handed out around 6 copies)

sorry, to not go with your vbac dream......