Desperate for help!!

[Desertress]

Guys i am desperate for help/advice anything basically that will help me. My 2 and a half yr old son is out of control. We have tried everything with him and he just will not listen to us. He ignores everything we say, if i ask him not to do something he does is deliberatley and smiles. He yells at us and has started throwing things and i just dont know how to cope with this. He is very bad with his toilet training at home but almost perfect at daycare. He can go fine all day at daycare but at home he finds it funny to pee on the carpet and doors and laughs about it.

I am really starting to doubt myslef as a mother because upuntil about 2 months ago he was fine and perfectly normal. He was still naughty sometimes but nothing like this. I am at the end of my rope as we have tried everything. We have tried time out , talking to him about it, takeing things from him, trying to distract him, ignoring him even smacking him, i am even doing a sticker chart and that just seems to cause more tantrums.

If anyone has any advice on what i can do to try and get my little boy back i would be very greatful.

[poshBecks]

I can't say I'm an expert in this area as my ds isn't quite at that stage yet (but he's getting there :o ). But from what I can tell from other mums ( & the Supernanny ;) ) Consistancy is the key!! Even though something may not work initially, if you keep being consistant with disipline so that he begins to learn - if i do this, this is what will happen! Kids- especially little ones NEED to have boundaries & they need to learn what they are. I hope this helps - I'm not looking forward to the "terrible 2's" however, it's a comin' up pretty quickly!
Good luck
Becky
___________
Mum of ...
Connor 18 mths
Bump due in Dec

[veve]

hey :)

firstly hugs!!! - no one likes pee in their house!!!!

I dont have an answer for you - but I just noticed that Chase was only born in September????!!! maybe your little man is just seeking attention??? (doesn't make it any more fun) - the only thing I can think of is to REALLY lather on the praise when he actually used the loo - and be willing to put bubs down to pay more attention to him.....

dont EVER doubt yourself as a mother - I know it is easy to say!!!! (insert another hug here!!!) there is ALWAYS light at the end of the tunnel... even on the darkest day - YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

xxxxxxx

[Rell]

Hi Desertress when my DD was 2 we did the Postitive Parenting Program (Triple P)
It is a free program run by the QLD state government and I found it very helpfull.
Ask your Child heath clinic or GP about it and see if they run one near you.

[mimi]

HI Desertress

Oh you poor thing! sounds like you are having a tough time alright!! Has something happened recently to cause Ds to start acting this way ?? some stressful event?? or is this just the 'stage' do you think? when kids realise that their own agenda isn't the same as yours - and they don't HAVE to comply??!!?

I probably can't offer you any 'quick fixes' or first hand anecdotes - luckily we haven't been through this with our two [5yrs & 2 yrs] - but I have posted about a very similar thing, on another forum the other day - the mum was saying how they used 'time-out' ... so forgive my laziness as I copy and paste my response!!! :o

quote:"As I understand 'time-out', if used, it should be PLEASANT and not a punishment - eg 'I can see you need to calm down -how about a nice rest in your room playing with your favourite toys/listening to your favourite music' ... just as adults would if they thought they needed to 'get it together' - having a nice cup of tea and listening to nice music!

Time out, though it is not smacking, obviously!!, IS actually punishment. And using punishment means we are striving for control! [Controlling is using punishment AND praise - and neither work! Instead we need to strive for guidance.]

Control aims to teach children just to comply with adult directives, not to do something because it is the 'RIGHT' or considerate thing to do - and of course if we use punishment then we only stop the behaviour [if it does stop it] when we are around!

Have you heard of Louise Porter? Psychologist, mother and author. She stresses that we don't want COMPLIANT children - but considerate children. and that to teach children to be OBEDIENT is dangerous both for them and others. -
1. they risk being abused [yes, sexually abused] if they just 'do what adults say' [scary thought isn't it!!? ]
2.they may grow to be the ones to follow peer pressure to bully [follow the dominant peer]
3. communities/countries are unsafe when one will not disobey the orders of leaders even if they are inappropriate orders.

Porter is by no means the only one who believes that punishment is useless - Reinhard Ronnebeck is another that comes to mind [author '7000 Days - creating a happy family from day one'] he explains, too, that it only makes the child worry about what will happen to HIM/HER. The focus of control is then not what the child is doing but what someone else will do [praise works in the same way - makes the child not think of the 'good deed' he/she is doing but of the benefit it will be to SELF if the 'right' thing is done] (... the 'sticker chart' is considered unhelpful by Dr Porter too :()

Some strategies to prevent always battling with kids ?? ... Give choices as much as possible - i.e. between two possible things that suit you ... like, 'You can sit on this chair or you can sit on that chair' and if there is not a choice, let them choose how they FEEL about it eg. "We have to leave right now, you can feel angry and upset if you want or you can feel OK with that, but we do have to go now."

Don't use the negative - i.e. name the action you want not the action you don't want - when I say, 'Don't think about the flying purple pigs'', you cannot help thinking of them. So if you say 'Don't run,' then they are more likely to run!! but if you say 'Walk slowly through this shop' they are more likely to do that ... yeah I know - not ALWAYS! but you may have a better chance this way!!

In the ABC archives you can listen to Louise Porter giving a very interesting talk [and answering some parents' questions] in your choice of media or read the transcript - http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/lm/stories/s441942.htm I think it is really worth the listen. One of her books is 'Children are People too'

I think we all need a reminder, sometimes, that kids aren't 'out to get us' or deliberately trying to make our lives difficult [you'd wonder though, sometimes, eh?!!] They are just learning about life and how to act and react - and they need us to be loving guides and leaders for them [as opposed to being The Boss!!] - I know, easier said than done!!" end quote :)

You might also want to read the Myths of the SuperNanny by Thomas Haller and Chick Moorman at http://www.thomashaller.com/pages/parentsNanny.html

But I think listening to Dr Porter might help...I hope so anyway!! Hope things get better for you soon! :)

[our little treasures]

Mmmmh Just your toddler testing his boundaries :rolleyes:

Find something that you want to do and feel comfortable with, my thing with dd is bed! When she wont listen I put her on her bed!

For example dd throws an object I tell her don't throw things or you go to bed if she then throws something I pick her up and put her on her bed and say when your sorry you can come out!!

Do this everytime 1 warning is sufficient!!

I was watching DRPHIL one day and he said something that I thought was really good. A mum kept counting to 3 and giving loads of warnings he said It confuses the child "He said, why 3 why not 10 or 20 (warnings) you should be training your child, you say it once and they listen". If you give 3 warnings they know they will have 3 times to do it b4 they get a punishment..

SO whatever you decide consistency is the key and even if your on the toilet you have to get off and follow thru your threat whatever it is.

Taking things away doesnt always work because they know they will get it back (unless you get the cheapest toy u can find and throw it in the bin so he understands he won't get it back) !! - Another tip from dr phil(except he said take the t.v )lol

good luck

[JanetF]

Hugs to you and yes yes yes to Triple P plus what Mimi suggests.

[nemosmum]

Everyone else has offered some great ideas for you, so I'll just add one more thing.

Your little guy is very young and so perhaps when you tell him what NOT to do he simply hears the words and doesnt get the fact his supposed to do the opposite LOL.

It sounds easy but it may take some practice to remember each time to tell him what you WANT him to do. EG His about to wee all over your carpet instead of saying "Dont you wee on that carpet!" you could try "Go to the toilet, remember thats were we wee" and take him by the hand and help him.

I know its so easy to lose your cool and get upset/angry/frustrated but this is exactly the kind of emotions/body language you dont want to display to your child, coz if it is attention seeking then his already got a reaction from you. STAY CALM no matter what he does and he will realise that you are in control and thats what your child needs, he needs to know mummy's in control thats how children feel secure and safe. I know easier said then done, tell me about it :p

Wishing you all the best and keep us posted :)

[amanda_n_3]

guys, a friend of mine tried of tantruming child on a new milk called a2 milk. her kid went from having huge tantums to being much more happy calm and only having the occassional tantrum.

so having the same trouble as a whinging toddler, tomorrow the whole family is going to try this a2milk. she swears by it and i have seen it on today tonight... has anyone else tried it let me know if you found these results too.

i will make sure i come back to report on it! im hopeful...

[mimi]

I have heard abit about the A2 milk - but more along thelines of it being not so dangerous in that it doesn't have the risk of causing diabetes etc .... but worth a go I think!

Desertress

Some more thoughts that I have recently posted to another forum - seems eveyone is having 2 year old problems just now ... must be the weather??!!

Have you thought about some of the 'little' things DS does that you can actually 'give in' to ? This isn't spoiling him, so long as you are sensible about what you 'give in' to :p - and you haven't 'lost' anything ... because this shouldn't be a big power struggle between you - though that is what we can let it become! [tell me about it!] I certainly don't mean the peeing on the carpet or any of the rally bad stuff - I just mean something [like a token] to show him that you respect him and are giving him this opportunity to do something he chooses.

You know you can say 'yes' and be saying no at the same time and it works a treat with my two' ...eg "Yes you can do that - if this is finished first" "Yes you can go there - if we have done such-and-such first" - Just saves saying that dreaded word, 'NO' that gets them all riled up straight away.

If the answer really IS 'no' and DS throws a 'full on' tantrum .... deep breath!!! .... you have to HELP him calm down. Remembering that 2 yrs, and even 4 or 5!!, is such a short way from being a baby - when we cuddled and held them for crying every time! We as adults find it difficult to keep our emotions in check sometimes so it is easy to understand a child not being able to! Hold him close, cuddle, sooth, use understanding words [I know you feel so angry now] and stay with him until he calms down ... remembering of course not to be critical of his feelings or actions once it is all over.

If he objects to being held and calmed you can 'Allow' the behaviour - but in a different setting .. eg " We are all allowed to cry until we don't feel sad anymore - so perhaps you would like to keep crying but in your room on a nice comfy bed"

Another example of 'allowing' unwanted behaviour - "You can continue throwing that ball - but outside in the yard. I know you wouldn't want to break anything"

Giving choice about EVERYTHING you can think of is great for making them feel like they are 'in charge' and are respected. eg choose two or outfits and then ask him which one he would like to wear. Have two possible choices for lunch and ask him which one he would like today.

People always mention 'praise' - and it IS necessary to recognise polite/appropriate/helpful behaviour. So long as you actually ENCOURAGE and NOT praise ... just as you would to an adult for doing something you appreciated. You wouldn't say to your best friend "Good girl you picked up all the toys!", would you???? You would say "Thanks so much for picking up all those things - it is going to make my day SO much easier! I really appreciate it" Say the same kind of thing to DS!

Often these things are easier to type than to achieve in 'real life'!!!! BUT ... [as orlando'smum says] try and remain calm at all times! You need to be in control .... not of DS, but of yourself! [we can't control anyone's behaviour but our own]

Try not to make DS 'wrong' for every 'bad' thing he does. Letting them save face can sometimes avoid extra conflict eg ' We all forget to think first sometimes - I reckon you probably won't forget next time, What do you think?"

Mmmmm If I practiced all these suggestions, all the time, myself I think our house could be a much calmer and happier place :D

[Elfin]

My 2yo has been extremely difficult lately, throwing tanties, screeching, hitting and scratching so I can really sympathise. About a week ago I cut preservative 282 out of her diet and I have noticed a huge improvement.

282 is an anti mould preservative and is found in some breads, crumpets, english muffins and refrigerated pasta. So maybe give it a try, check the labels as I believe it has helped. It has taken a week to notice a difference.

[mimi]

My 2yo has been extremely difficult lately.. About a week ago I cut preservative 282 out of her diet and I have noticed a huge improvement.
Definitely a good idea to rule out any food intolerances [described as irritated nervous system by Dr Porter] i.e. the brain is the organ affected most by the intolerance. As Dr Porter also explains, parenting strategies for these kids can work, but they really need treatment for their illness.

These kids may display other symptoms - eczema, constipation, ear/nose/throat irritations. Some may have had an early viral infection that has over-activated tehir immune system.

These is abook called 'Fed Up' by Sue Dengate which goes into this in detail. Also, the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital,Sydney has an allergy department which offers the elimination diet. You can contact them and maybe they can work with your GP or a dietician.

[mimi]

Now here is a wonderful way at looking at 2 year olds! visiting scientists?? I love it!
http://www.naturalchild.org/advice/q58.html
:)

[Desertress]

Thankyou everyone for all your responses and your help. I have found a lot of this helpful and i have also found alot of good information on the net. Now the only problem i have is keping calm enough to try and implement it. I just find it so hard not to yell and get angry when he is sitting there smiling and ignoring me. But i will try to have more patience and give him more attention...... though not alway easy when dp is only home on weekends and i have a 5 week old son. I will definatley look into doing the pp course and look at his diet.

Again thank you all and i will let you know how things go.

[the_queen]

not sure if this will help... in fact I think it's proof of my insanity...!!! When things get really stressful, and I just want to scream at her or set fire to the house (easier than cleaning it...) I sing this song (to the tune of that old "hitler, has only got one ball, himmler, had two but very small" song) :

It could be worse! There could be s**t on the walls! It could be worse! There could be s**t on the walls!





Don't worry love, most parents go through this kind of thing with their kids and come out the other end just fine. Next time he's pee-ing on the doors, maybe take a photo of it and think about how much fun it will be to blow that photo up to life size and display it at his 21st...............