Is it 2006 or 1906

[kristi001]

Hey Everyone

I am a Vegetarian i have been since i was 12 :) thou my DP is a meat eater.. I want to raise my son up as a vegetarian,( my DP has no prob) until he is old enough to choose what he wants to do!
I have never thought twice about this but everyone i tell seams to think that i am deprivng my son for my own beliefs! Thou i wish my parents did the same to me instead of feeding me red meat most of my life!!
i would really like people oppinions..
I just dont understand why eating meat is so right and not eating it isnt in todays society!! Are we still in the 1906 where no one stepped out of the norm??

:confused: Am i depriving him or is this a reasonable choice to make :confused:

[Shanaynay]

I am guessing that most people are probably concerned that you son will be 'missing out' on the many nutritional benefits of meat. But if you've been a vegetarian for so long, you'd know what you need to feed him to make sure he gets everything he needs (eg. nuts, chick peas, green leafies, maybe some vitamins).
Maybe you need to explain this to people that are criticising you....

When you say you want to him to make the decision for himself, does that mean when he's 3 years old and wants a bit of Daddy's meat pie or something-or-other, he'll be allowed to have it?

[kristi001]

Thats a Good question :) Thou my DP is a meat eater we do not have it in our house. He usually eats it when he is at his parents or out shopping so bub wont have much to do with meat to know that its there... :) We are doing it because of the health factor rather then the fact that it was an animal...

[Yasmeena]

Maybe just mentioning that around 50% of death in australia is caused by cardiovascular disease and your risk of cardiovascular disease and cancer is reduced by about 30% by being vegetarian may show just one of the many health benefits of being vegetarian to those who may wish to criticise your choice of diet.
Eating meat does not guarantee a healthy diet, perhaps question others of how much fresh fruit and vegetables they have eaten today? Or just asking them how they look after their heart?
A vegetarian diet is a healthy one and is often healthier than many omnivores diets. There are millions of people all over the world who are thriving on a vegetarian diet :yes:

I don't see why you would let your child decide their diet, it is your responsibility as a parent to ensure that children are provided with adequate nutrition, and it is often the case that parents like to teach their children about their ethics, morality and life choices.
If you have made the decision to be vegetarian why not allow your child to choose as an adult (just like a child brought up to believe in a particular religion) but guide them while they are young.
Most parents don't allow their children to choose their diet (for eg chocolate for breakfast...... oh, hang on, some people do feed their kids coco pops ) anyway if you are healthy on a vegetarian diet there is no reason your child won't be as well. It is not unreasonable, nor is their anything wrong with raising a caring and compassionate vegetarian :yes:

[Pippi Longstocking]

Yeah, like Yasmeena ^ said!

I have been vegetarian since birth. My children are also vegetarian. My husband isn't but doesn't really ever eat meat around us.

I have always found it slightly bizarre that people question the health of vegetarians. It strikes me as odd. A vegetarian diet generally consists of fruits, vegetables, grains, and legumes - hardly unhealthy foods!
Sure, meat can provide nutrition but it certainly isn't necessary for good health.

When people question my choice to raise my children vegetarian, I either explain my reasons (for primarily ethical but also health reasons) or cut them off with a short "I have no desire to discuss the topic with you" depending on the situation.

Do I think you are depriving him? Not at all. As long as he eats a variety of healthy foods, is growing and happy and has a full tummy, don't worry about other people's negative reactions.

[Beany]

I have never thought twice about this but everyone i tell seams to think that i am deprivng my son for my own beliefs!

Ask them what they think of Hindu parents who deprive their children meat due to their beliefs. And Muslims with their dietary restrictions on the kinds of meat that can be consumed. And Jews.

You have a belief system and you want your child to adhere to it. Fair enough. If they have an issue with it, tell them that they don't have to raise THEIR children that way.

[Mister Noodle]

*pokes Beany impertinently*

Oi you.

I don't care either way on the issue of vegetarianism, but that's a terrible argument. Saying "It's my religion!" justifies exactly nothing.

Whether or not something is harmful has absolutely nothing to do with your beliefs.

If something is harmful but your beliefs advocate it anyway, that doesn't make it okay - that just makes your beliefs harmful in themselves.


My personal opinion on vegetarianism is that we evolved as omnivores, and that we're optimised for a mixed diet. You certainly can put together a very healthy vegetarian lifestyle, but it takes a fair bit of work to make sure your nutritional needs are met.

IMHO, that's probably why vegetarians are often healthier (though I'd desperately like to see some real statistics on that) than omnivores - you HAVE to be really careful about what you eat, you have to plan ahead and make sure you've covered all your requirements, and can't just let things slide.

Compare that to the competition who just eat whatever they feel like at the time and don't have to care - of course you'll be better off.

In much the same way, someone suggested that the best way to improve road safety would be to mount a big metal spikes in the middle of everyone's steering wheel - everyone would then be insanely careful, because one little fender-bender would be instantly fatal.

Meat isn't bad for you - it just gives you the freedom to get sloppy, which IS bad for you.

Certainly typical western diets are terribly badly-suited to human physiology - we haven't adapted to such abundant protein, fat and simple carbs. We tend to massively overload on nitrates from the unprecedented amount of meat we eat, and our metabolisms go nuts on the ridiculous number of calories available to us every day.

Look at the environments we evolved in. Lots of plants, some fruit, painstakingly gathered grains and seeds, and meat as a rare and treasured windfall when we managed to hunt something down. And of course, never quite enough of anything.

Emulate that, and I'm willing to bet that the people who do will beat the vegetarians hands down.

[the_queen]

LOL yeah, use Mister Noodle's argument - they'll never ask again! :laughing:

[Beany]

Yeah, he's a real smile and nod inducer ... :p

I wasn't suggesting that behaviours should be accepted without question because they are someone's belief. I was suggesting that in the PARTICULAR case of dietary restrictions as imposed by parents, if people are willing to forgive (for lack of a better term) the restrictions based upon religiously based motivations then they don't have a leg to stand on to argue against ethical motivations.

[Pippi Longstocking]

Mister Noodle, I have to disagree with this statement...


you have to plan ahead and make sure you've covered all your requirements, and can't just let things slide
I don't ever plan ahead, I eat what I feel like at the time - the only difference is that "what I feel like" happens to not contain any chunks of carcass :p .


Certainly typical western diets are terribly badly-suited to human physiology - we haven't adapted to such abundant protein, fat and simple carbs. We tend to massively overload on nitrates from the unprecedented amount of meat we eat, and our metabolisms go nuts on the ridiculous number of calories available to us every day.
Yep, I completely agree. I don't think that meat itself is responsible for poor health. But over-consumption of meat definitely plays a part.

As I said in my first post, my reasons for vegetarianism are primarily ethical. Animals are treated appallingly in the meat industry. :crying:. I could provide links but they are all pretty distressing. For anyone interested, try googling - pig farming and chicken farming are both particularly cruel industries in Australia.

I am not at all a crazy militant vegetarian. I am not even against eating meat. I just feel that there are ways to do it ethically, if you so choose. I think that if animals were treated better, if they were allowed the RSPCA's five basic freedoms -

Freedom from hunger and thirst by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour.

Freedom from discomfort by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.

Freedom from pain, injury or disease by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.

Freedom to express normal behaviour by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animal's own kind.

Freedom from fear and distress by ensuring conditions and care which avoid mental suffering.

then the benefits would be twofold. It would not only stop animals from suffering needlessly, but the cost of meat would also rise along with the increased cost of farming ethically, which would mean that meat would become the luxury it ought to be rather than a normal every meal every day food product.

[nicoleE]

Hello all. :wave:

kristi001 I am in a very similar situation to you (except I dont have kids yet). I have been a vegetarian by choice for about 12 years (since I was about 16). My DH is not a vegetarian but happily eats vego food at home, luckily for me he is not a man who 'needs his red meat!'. Apart from sandwich meat he would eat meat about once a week which Im happy to cook for him.

However where we differ is that I will raise my children as omnivores and they can choose when they are old enough to be a vegetarian or not. In the mean time they will probably eat as my DH does, a healthy diet from a range of foods with a little meat. There are two main reasons for this I guess, one is that i want them to choose for themselves when they are old enough to understand where the meat they are eating comes from and the other which is a big thing I think is that (for example) i want my child to be able to go to a birthday party and be able to eat that sausage roll, pastie (most do have meat in them) or meat pie that is on offer. As a child they wont understand what they can and cant eat and if they are told 'no' they wont know why really, particularly since all the other kids will be enjoying them.


Now dont get me wrong, what you choose for your children is the right way to go :thumbsup: , as long as they are eating well its nobody elses business. I just wanted to give my side from someone who is in a very similar situation as you.


Vegetarians get a bad wrap for the people who just cut meat out of their diet and dont replace it with anything which in turn will make them unwell in the long term. The truth is the majority of us are healthier because we do tend to look at what we are eating. It is not that hard though, its as simple as just replacing the meat with a meat alternative. it just means we end up eating a wider range of foods.

I dont deny we as humans are supposed to eat some meat, but our ancestors ate meat rarely when they could manage to hunt something and even then it had to be shared around. Our bodies digestive tracts are not designed to digest a large amount of meat in our diets. I personally choose to not eat meat because of the way our animals are raised only to kill them and they way they are treated in the industry. Someone told me about some company that raises animals 'naturally' as in with freedom and good food and they kill them in some way that is humane and it is sold to a market of people who are animal lovers. Even this way I couldnt eat it now because it has been so long the thought of eating any kind of flesh sickens me. :barf: (hey i have always wanted to use that smilie - now i have :laughing: )

I appologise i have probalbly repeated/agreed with what some others have posted, I am just in a bit of a hurry and dont have the time to go back and recognise/agree with you by name!

[Yasmeena]

Mr Noodle, I kind of and kind of don't agree with you. Whilst emulating a prehistoric or 'natural' diet might seem like a good idea, bear in mind that if you look at our current life expectancy compared to historical life expectancies and you will see that our modern lifestyle whilst full of stresses (like getting to work on time - which doesn't really compare with say.... fighting for your very survival or running away from a predator) and processed foods and meat and carbs and carcinogens is actually quite sucessful.
I did find some info on life expectancy and diet a while ago (but can't be bothered to search for it again), and a vegan and a meat eaters is about the same, a vegetarians is better but the best diet for health and long life is a 'vegetarian' that eats fish!

A vegetarian diet is not more difficult, it certainly does not require a 'fair bit of work' to keep healthy. In fact I would say being healthy does not require much work at all. I just requires eating fresh organic food and running around a bit.
Omni's HAVE to be just as careful with their diet, possibly more so as they are more likely to die of artherosclerosis or cancer (the two top causes of death in Australia)
It is a bit ignorant to assume that eating an omnivorous diet means you don't HAVE to worry about what you are eating, but vegetarians do.
I completely agree with you that the healthiest people will eat primarily plant based food and a small amount of meat. I think that is probably the ideal diet. There are certainly benefits to eating animal flesh, the complete protein, the iron and other minerals, omega 3 in fish etc.... it's great stuff! I choose not to eat it for ethical (among other) reasons however I am not blinded to it's many health benefits.
Humans have a long digestive system (like a herbivore) carnivores have stomach acid 20 times stronger than a humans, humans have to cook flesh before eating it (I think a 'natural predator' eats it's meat at the source, I've never seen a wild dog having a spit-roast) there are many physiological arguments against the 'evolution' of humans to eat meat.
Certainly some other primates eat flesh, but not cooked and not every day.

[Mister Noodle]

Yasmeena: that's why I said 'optimised for' rather than 'best for you'. :p

I'm always wary of the naturalistic fallacy - we also evolved without soap or antibiotics or toothpaste, too, but I'm not going to suggest that we're best off without them.

It's a bit of a tradeoff - there's what our metabolism and digestive system can best cope with, and there's our longterm nutritional needs. Steering a middle course can be tricky.

Yes, meat eaters have to be careful with their diet, but the penalties for not doing so are less immediately misery-inducing - and that was the point.

Cardiovascular disease is a big risk, and a deadly one at that, but it generally takes years, even decades for the symptoms to affect you.

On the other hand, iron deficiency will make you miserable in a matter of weeks, and protein deficiency... I'm guessing a matter of months.

That was the only difference - a poor vegetarian diet punishes you now, while a poor omnivorous diet punishes you later. As such, vegetarians tend to get whipped into shape early, whereas omnivores tend to regret their choices after it's too late to fix them.


As for anatomy - look at these teeth. We're certainly not built to be predators, but neither are we optimised for vegetation alone.

And as for cooking - that's how these big brains pay for their excessive energy cost, by allowing us to bypass the limits of our own unassisted physiology.

[TJ]

its definitly his choice to make, its almost on the same lines as telling him what religion he should be, or if he should be gay or straight.

You CANT make or force those decisions, be a decent person and let him make up his own mind.