Early CC saved my sanity

[brodiebunch]

Hi all! I would just like to share my CC story with you.I have a beautiful baby boy Oliver who now sleeps wonderfully and better still he is predictable.It was not always this way!

After a traumatic birth(if you want to know more read my story in birth trauma) my DS was constantly in some-ones arms being held and rocked to sleep for the first three weeks so that I could rest and recover.Not that I am ungreatful to those that helped but it caused a really big problem.Ollie would not sleep unless he was held and would only sleep for short spurts.As you can guess when the help dried up it was really hard.

My DP could not put him down at night to settle untill around 11 and then as a new breastfeed baby he would wake after that 3 hourly for feed...not that bad huh?The problem was that after four in the morning Oliver would scream and scream regardless of what we did and not go back to sleep untill 7 then wake for the day half an hour later and need to be held.
In desperation he started coming into our bed and we would take nightly turns of patting him while barely concious.I use that word as we got that exhausted we were at the point of passing out.We noticed that he was really windy at this time and didn't sleep untill he had farted many many times.Off to the comunity health nurse to see what to do.Not alot! When my DS was 3 and a half months we were all that exhausted that 1. DP's work was suffering 2.DS was getting worse and 3.I was staring to get really anxious.

We were reffered to a place called QE2 in canberra on the friday and in by the monday.When in there the little bugger slept almost all night no wind.So we decided to work on his day sleeps and getting him back into the cot and out of our arms.We started CC. I will say here that I wouldn't have done it at this age without the support in the centre.It was really hard work
to see DS that upset but by day 2 he slept for one whole hour in his cot and I could see that he could do this.After 4 days of lessons and many tears
his and mine DS was in a cot and sleeping in the day (waking between sleep cycles but settling after now decreasing tears)and better still going to bed at 7.:smiliedance:

We went home and once we had left QE2 it was really hard for approx 2 weeks.I felt like an absolute cow and I was really missing the hugs.However I could already see an improvement in DS.I stared keeping a journal so that I could see our accomplishments.That helped to keep me going as every day DS got easier to get to sleep.4 weeks after staying we would just put DS in his cot and walk away,No tears straight to sleep:yelclap: and tucked up for the night by 6:smiliedance:

No night waking! That was because of temp. changes in our old house not wind pain.A heater with a thermostat fixed that.Now DS is 10mths and sleeps through and has been from 7mths, Still has 2 big day sleeps and sometimes needs CC to get there.DP and I have Time for each other and ourselves.It has not always been smooth sailing we need to readjust to changes about every 2 to 3 months but it only takes a day or 2 and we are back on track.Self weaning had its issues in the last 2 weeks.HE chose to do it but he had seperation issues from me ...Night waking.8 days of CC and he is back to norm.

It has also helped DS to reach his milestones better as he is well rested.That is reward enough,But as I am coping with deppresion and PTSS these sleeps are heaven sent so I can relax.CC is well worth doing and I hope my experience helps some-one out there.Need to go as DS is sleeping and I want a long hot shower.:wave:

[Goosie22]

Hi,
I feel it important to point out that if you have a child that sleeps a 5 (11 to 4 ) hours stretch prior to 3 months you are very lucky. Encouraging people to consider a baby feeding every 3 hours and having a 5 hour sleep as abnormal is misleading.

I'm afraid its not showing the CHN at QE2 in Canbera in a good light if they encourage such extreme methods at such an early age. Just another example of non evidenced based care within our crumbling healthcare system.:thumbsdown:

[brodiebunch]

My baby never at any stage slept for a five hour period.That was the problem.He would only sleep for at most 40 mins even at night,feeding 3 hourly is normal except when it takes over one and a half hours to feed him because he is so tired.We had exhausted all other avenues.QE2 never at any stage told me to do this.I CHOSE TO TRY CC WITH NO ENCOURAGEMENT. We had even had DS at Dr to check for medical problems.Even with an afternoon rest I was lucky to get 4 hours sleep myself a day.so you can see why after so long I was tired.My baby was never neglected as the undertones of your post seem to imply.Infact I used the time to find new ways to bond and nurtre my DS.Also my DS himself was that exhausted by this time that he had not reached his three month milstones,after this he caught up within 2 weeks. What did you want me to do?Get so upset and depressed that we have a case of shaken baby or worse?Next time before commenting you should read more thouroughly.If you think society is going wrong because there are places that desperate mothers can get help then I would hate to live in your world.fuming at you for your feedback..... brodie bunch.

[Chickadee]

Yes, this is a pro-CC section. But I feel Goosie was correct in pointing out that most proponents of CC would not encourage trying it before bub is 6 months old and that the CHN should not be encouraging it. That has now been clarified by brodiebunch.

Rather than retaliating against a member's comments, please use the Report Post function to alert a moderator.

[brodiebunch]

Sorry for the retaliation,Needed to clarify some points and got really angry.But thanks to goosey for pointing out this.She was only against my trying CC so young and is entitled to her opinion.If my boy had have shown lots of distress with CC I would have abandoned it till he was older,It was just right for us!

[cosmic]

I just wanted to say that my baby also wanted to be held constantly from about one week old, so I bought a hugabub and that's what I did - carried her. No more overtired baby and suddenly we were having long (3hr) daysleeps while I wore her all day.

At 3mths, I started to put her in her cot for daysleeps and at first she would only sleep for 20min at a time.. but within days, that increased to 30min, then 40min, then an hour and a half. It probably took a month of rocking, patting, sshhing but she now goes off to sleep with minimal help from me. Right now, she's been asleep for over 2hrs and I'm just about to go and check if she's breathing. :laughing:

I know it's a pro-CC thread but I don't think it should be advocated for babies under 6mths old and just wanted to point out that I found another, more gentle approach to getting my baby to sleep. :thumbsup:

[brodiebunch]

Glad that worked for you!:thumbsup: It didn't for me.When I posted this I honestly didn't think it would cause such strong reactions.I would have loved to take the attachment approach but after my birth I was really not well for three months and certainly could not carry my baby around with me as my C-section wound had only just closed and I had no muscle tone and was not to strain my back.Dr's orders.I think Mums should just do what is right for them and not be influenced by others.As I have said nothing else had worked for us.The main thing is that my baby is better off. Yes I am constantly having to defend my descision and all I wanted was to give hope to other mums who have found themselves in my position that you may feel horrible and be really guilty trying CC against all advice, because you do,that it worked for at least one person.I also agree that in normal circumstances you should wait till bubs is older.....But desperation leads to drastic measures :wave:

[aimz]

Hi there Brodiebunch

i feel for you as i too went through EXACTLY the same thing and you know what my bub was 7 weeks old when i started doing "controlled comforting" and it has worked so well my bub has always been pretty good at night but would scream from 9am to 6pm every day my partner would come home to a screaming baby and a nutter of a fiance. so i called a lovely sleep expert who came out took one look at bub and said shes overtired and is going back to bed.

within one sleep cycle of doing controlled comforting bub was sleeping pretty well. it was difficult to hear my baby cry but i now know her cries so much better. Before i was feeding every 2 -21/2 hours thinking she was hungry, now with this routine she rarely cries to be fed as she knows its coming. She now has 2 decent naps a day and sleeps from 6.30pm to anywhere from 3.30-6.30am. yes we are lucky and we have a great baby but we trained her (sounds harsh i know but its true) to be like this. When she is awake she is happy, content and loved. Sleep time is sleep time and thats the way it goes. Babies need day sleep and good day sleep for their development.

i applaud you for sharing your story as it really strikes a chord with me.

[Little Gorilla]

Glad that worked for you!:thumbsup: It didn't for me.When I posted this I honestly didn't think it would cause such strong reactions.I would have loved to take the attachment approach but after my birth I was really not well for three months and certainly could not carry my baby around with me as my C-section wound had only just closed and I had no muscle tone and was not to strain my back.Dr's orders.I think Mums should just do what is right for them and not be influenced by others.As I have said nothing else had worked for us.The main thing is that my baby is better off. Yes I am constantly having to defend my descision and all I wanted was to give hope to other mums who have found themselves in my position that you may feel horrible and be really guilty trying CC against all advice, because you do,that it worked for at least one person.I also agree that in normal circumstances you should wait till bubs is older.....But desperation leads to drastic measures :wave:

Thanks for sharing your story.:yelclap:

Its good to get all points of view in relation to an issue....you might be reaching that one mum out there that is at her absolutely breaking point...she might read your story and it might just be the info she needs to help her and her bub out.

I think people are forgetting that every single little person that is born in to this world is different...so that means everyones parenting styles will be different...not one parent out there parents their child the way I do mine. I think everyone is forgetting that at the moment.

If we all did exactly the same things with our children - then there would be no point of having this forum in the first place.

[cosmic]

Brodiebunch, I also meant to say that I think it's really interesting that you found the temperature to be causing the early morning waking. My bub wakes constantly to be fed overnight, but usually goes straight back to sleep - except on some occasions when she wakes around 3.30-4am and will be unsettled but not hungry... and I believe it is a temperature issue for us too.

Also, I do realise your point was to give hope to other mums who might be having terrible sleeping troubles. I totally understand that, and I guess I just wanted those mums to also know that there might be other things they can try before going down the CC path because it honestly sounds like it was incredibly difficult for you to do.

[brodiebunch]

Temp was a concern for us as we live in a cold coastal area.You should have seen DS in winter it was an ordeal to get all the clothes on him.So a heater was needed as well as handing over the cash for a good sleeping bag.We realised it was temp because QE2 was climate controlled and he slept soundly.To all mums I say It is really hard to use CC not just on yourself but the entire family(including dad)I myself only used it as a last resort and highly encourage other mums not to see this as the be all and end all of sleeping problems.There are many other options available just look at other forums and educate yourself as to what you are dealing with before starting any of them.Yes gentler options are available

[Mrs Potts]

Brodie bunch, we also used controlled comforting early with success. By the time DS was 6 weeks old he was lucky to have been sleeping 6 hours a day since we got home from hospital. We went to "day stay" at the health clinic where we used a modified form of CC. It worked magnificently!

When DS got to 6 months, his sleeping went pearshaped and had begun night waking, not through hunger. This was when we also discovered the wonder that is QE2's central heating LOL That wasn't the only issue though, and we did some more CC with success.

We were lucky with DD that she knew from the start how to self settle. But there were times when she would have trouble especially if she were overtired. We didn't hesitate to use the modified CC again from only a few weeks. Before you all jump down my throat we weren't leaving a newborn to cry for an hour, she wasn't hungry, didn't need changing, yada yada, she just needed to have a bit of a cry to put herself to sleep. We never left her for more than a minute or two before helping her to settle by patting/rocking in her bed. Again it worked for us and we have a very happy and content girl who sleeps really well.

Sometimes you have to ignore what the "experts" recommend as what they say doesn't always suit your child. I fail to see how the ACT child health system (I know for a fact, that it's not just the 2 centres that I went to) can support early modified CC in certain circumstances if it really is so terribly wrong.

[Goosie22]

I fail to see how the ACT child health system (I know for a fact, that it's not just the 2 centres that I went to) can support early modified CC in certain circumstances if it really is so terribly wrong.

Here (http://www.aaimhi.org/documents/position%20papers/controlled_crying.pdf) is a position statement from the Australian Association for Infant Mental Health.


It is outlined in this statement that CIO/CC/Sleep training is not without certain worries and that it is seen as a last resort (with recommendations for age ect) for parents at risk (things which may increase the chances of child neglect/abuse). It also discusses Western lifestyle and unrealistic expectations as a reason why so many people have sleep issues. And at the very end makes the point that no studies have been carried out to assertain its saftey or harm.





Controlled crying (also known as controlled comforting and sleep training) is a technique that is widelyused as a way of managing infants and young children who do not settle alone or who wake at night. Controlled crying involves leaving the infant to cry for increasingly longer periods of time before providing comfort. The intention of controlled crying is to let babies put themselves to sleep and to stop them from crying or calling out during the night. AAIMHI is concerned that the widely practiced

technique of controlled crying is not consistent with what infants need for their optimal emotional and psychological health, and may have unintended negative consequences.





*edited to add as directed by moderator* This post is to Clarify Why some day stay units implement Sleep training on younger children.

[aimz]

i agree Princess Niamh each to their own. I know people who do both and all kids are well adjusted. The criticism for this is worse then breast/bottle....

Controlled Crying saved both my sanity and made my bub happy. She has been asleep this morning for 2 1/2 hours and cried for 2 minutes before falling asleep. I guarantee she will wake up happy and content. 6 weeks ago she would have started screaming at 9am and stopped at 6 cause she didnt know how to put herself to sleep.

[Rhys'Mum]

It took me till 9 months to get to QE11 and we should have been there at 6 weeks. I didn't realise how bad our sleep issues were and the negative impact they were having on my son until they went away. Did he immediately sleep through the night, no. Did he immediately start to have 3 hour naps, no. Did I expect him to, no. But he stopped being a tired, unhappy, highly strung little man who cried for most of his life and started to be the beautiful, inquisitive and happy child we only saw glimpses of.

It is all well and good to say you shouldn't leave a baby to cry and I certainly agree, but there are times when a baby cries because they need to go to sleep. I too found a sling a successful way of getting my son to sleep - some of the time. And personally I would have been happy if rocking, patting, feeding, co-sleeping, walking had been all it took for him to sleep but it didn't.

IMO if a baby is fed whenever they demand, given loving comfort and attention both physical and emotional and they cry for extended periods something is wrong and it is reasonable to expect you to do whatever you can to sort it out. In our case there was something wrong - he needed to go to sleep and he wouldn't.

By 9 months his chronic sleep deprivation was adversely effecting his feeding and his physical and emotional development. He needed constant stimulation and was inconsolable most of the time, if he fell over, got bored or someone was in his space it was 'the end of the world'. And then his behaviour changed overnight, he was finally happy.

Yes, leaving a child to cry is I'm sure very traumatic for them, but so is being traumatised by everyday events. Its obviously better if a child can just comfortably sleep whenever, wherever works for them. But trying to avoid early controlled crying with my son IMO caused even more damage and distress than being supported through controlled comforting would have done.

Why didn't I do it early, at 6 weeks when he still wouldn't sleep without being held, at 3 months when he wouldn't sleep more than 20mins at a time and even then only when he'd collapsed through sheer exhaustion - I'd had 'experts' and books and well meaning parents convince me it would be wrong.

[aimz]

My goodness you are describing what my daughter was like 100%! I started it at 7 weeks after having a baby who was fantastic at night, but a nightmare from 9am - 5pm (handy isnt it that thats when my fiance was at work)... i called a sleep specialist who took one look at her and said her problem is shes tired and shes going back to sleep.... it worked miracles. Now im not saying that it works all the time (actually she has just decided that she wants to wake up about 5 times in the night just for someone to go in and put her dummy in) but she is definitley a much happier baby......

she knows sleep time means sleep time and thats it so she generally doesnt cry when we put her down now. The only problem is she is going through a habit of waking up after 45 minutes... does anyone have any advice for that????

[brodiebunch]

My baby also no longer cries when he is put in his cot Infact he stopped crying pretty early on.We went through a period recently were he wouldn't sleep very long too.Fortunatley after a week or so he was that tired it righted itself!I also believe that to leave a baby that is sleep deprived is more neglectful than letting them get that bad it starts to affect their development.So good on all the other mums who have put caution to the wind and had cc work for them:) My little bub is the happiest and most well adjusted baby in our family[there are 3 between 10 months and 6 months]and coincidently he is the only one with a rutine!We have worked really hard on this and we do expect changes but to see the healthy effects that have not just occured in my DS but the whole family is wonderful and I have CC to thank:wave:

[Goosie22]

Why didn't I do it early, at 6 weeks when he still wouldn't sleep without being held, at 3 months when he wouldn't sleep more than 20mins at a time and even then only when he'd collapsed through sheer exhaustion - I'd had 'experts' and books and well meaning parents convince me it would be wrong.

Because anytime CIO/CC/sleep training is recommended the best intersts of the child are considered (So that means what is the likelyhood this mother will abuse this baby if CIO is not employed? If the likelyhood is considered high then the CHN will outline CIO and recommend it because risking Learned Helplessness for a baby is seen as the lesser of the two; they a have a score sheet with questions they routinely ask). So apparently before 6 months babies cant understand what it is that is being taught. They are learning "learned helplessness" by employing CIO techniques before this age, which is emotional surrender or "giving up".

And as the recommendations from the Australian Association for Infant Mental Health point out NO data exsists to confirm the saftey of such techniques.

[Rhys'Mum]

I guess my point is that for most of his early life the only way my little man slept was after some 45 plus minutes of crying, irrespective of what comfort method was being used. None of the 'accepted' methods of assisting him to sleep prevented this after about 6 weeks, and I certainly tried them. Like most parents I desperately wanted to avoid my precious son from getting upset, but he cried regardless. Rhys needing to go to sleep was a very traumatic experience for both my son and I.

I'm not suggesting early controlled comforting as a panacea. As someone who's had to listen to their child cry hysterically with no way of avoiding or preventing it I would never recommend letting your child cry if if it could be avoided. But perhaps in our circumstances leaving him alone some of that time might have actually allowed him to sleep.

Perhaps in some cases it is the lesser of two evils. Perhaps its not just between some form of parental abuse and cc but between cc and an already untenable and unhealthy situation. Perhaps mothers of children who are desperately tired need options rather than condemnation when none of the better methods are an option. Perhaps my son would have been better off had I not felt horrendous guilt at the thought of even considering cc early and I would not now have the guilt of so many oceans of tears, be they soothed or not.

I know.... I talk too much

[aimz]

D you dont have anything to feel guilty about! You say your little man is healthy and happy now right? well congratulations! you helped him become that person, not just with the sleeping but with your love, cuddles and positivity....... you did what was right for your son.... this may not be right for everyone but it worked for us too.... i wish that bub knew she was tired and would sleep but shes just not that type of baby... is your son super alert? Mine is and a lot of health nurses and doctors commented on that and said thats probably a factor, theres more exciting things to look at then sleep...

[brodiebunch]

Yeah ollie is super alert and not just that he is a real sticky beak!As we are having a holiday at my sisters unbaby safe house there is heaps to look at and it is taking a little longer to get to sleep as there is so much mischeif to be made.

[brodiebunch]

Rhy's mum I think the guilt is primarily caused by those who have chosen a different method of settling.I think I would have been judged less if I had had my son circumcised!
One thing that has made dealing with this easier is the fact that those who Knew us before CC,both family and friends,have seen the amazing improvement in my DS even though some of them,and yes most of them are mothers of new bubs,would not do this themselves.Mainly because they don't have such desperate circumstances.I live in a small country town where I have no family but I have many varied support networks including a very anti CC midwife but even she agreed after only a couple of weeks that my baby had certainly turned a full circle.
I would also like to add that holding ones baby is great.My little man gets and recieves lots of hugs,but in the first few months I was struggling to recover from a c-section wound breakdown and due to pain I found it hard to hold him all day.I had to make a choice pain medicine or breastfeeding.I made the best choice for him! I continued to breast feed as I thought that was more important in the scheme of things even if it meant not letting him cry for hours on end in my arms.
I stand by my choices and as I have a beautiful healthy son That the world can enjoy I have resolved to myself that these are the best choices for the well being of my family.

[misskittyfantastico]

Just a reminder to keep comments friendly.

[draught]

And as the recommendations from the Australian Association for Infant Mental Health point out NO data exsists to confirm the saftey of such techniques.

They also acknowledge that there is no data to support the danger of such techniques, so let's leave this thread as a pro-cc thread for those who have needed it and found it successful in their particular cases.

[mum2bubba]

Hayley has been an excellent sleeper right from day one, the only time she went a bit funny was when we moved house when she was 3 months old, then we used cc for a month and it worked wonders, hopefully the next baby is the same. :fingerscrossed:

[Rhys'Mum]

is your son super alert? Mine is and a lot of health nurses and doctors commented on that and said thats probably a factor, theres more exciting things to look at then sleep...

thanks for the lovely words, I will be happy to bask in the reflected glory of the gem that is my son... he's a truly fabulous and fun little man and yes, always, always, always been super alert!!!!

He was never one of those babies that just lay around happily. Pretty much as soon as he opened his eyes he was taking everything in. It wasn't till I went to a mothers group at about 12 weeks that I really noticed the difference in his behaviour - he was the only one twisting about, keeping an eye on the conversation and demanding some interaction please, the others were just happy to lay looking up at mummy and smiling or going to sleep.

And now.... well.... why walk when you can run? and why stand when you can jump? and why sit on the couch when you can throw cushions on the floor and slide yourself off the edge into them????? For months he was the only bub at mothers group pushing things, pulling things and putting things in things. He's totally interested in how things work and he's just busy, busy, busy. I think sometimes it is a case of too much to do, places to go, people to see and so little time..... (wonder where he gets that from????? lol)

[aimz]

Sounds like my little one - already rolling sliding from one end of the cot to the other, squawks when you leave the room etc etc.... laughs when you walk back in.....

Mum2bubba i noticed that you said you moved when your little one was 3 months old, we have just moved and Chloe is 3 months old.... she is really stirry at the moment, do you think thats what it could be?? How long did it take for yours to settle??? we have had a lot of night waking lately when before we didnt... shes very easy to settle just wants her dummy a pat and thats it... luckily i have a gorgeous fiance who lets me wear ear plugs to bed and does all of the settling (i wake up with every murmur where as he is more likely to only wake at the going in stage- bless him)

[jungle_queen]

aimee good idea about the ear plugs! My first daughter slept through the night from 7 weeks - we knew then we had one of those rare 'easy' babies ... so the fact my beautiful 3.5 month old daughter has been waking every 2-3 hours overnight since she was born has been quite a shock (expected when they're little, but she doesn't have a long sleep ie: over 3 hours at any time of the day or night)
I suspect I am guilty of actually waking her sometimes, when i hear her stirring, i feed her, and she often hasn't even opened her eyes. We have moved her into her cot so I wouldn't wake so much, but funnily enough my hubby now wakes more often as he is alert to her as well!
Do you think it is realistic for me to try settling if she starts stirring before 3 hours between feeds is up? I make sure now she sleeps in a nice light area during the day, and our bedtime routine is set: bath, into her sleeping bag and a feed. I'm able to put her down awake and calm in her cot now and she falls asleep.
I'm sure it won't be much longer until a longer sleep happens, but wondering if anyone has any ideas? I'm dreaming of 4.5 hours uninterrupted! :)

[aimz]

I called in a sleep specialist for day sleeps as Chloe wasn't sleeping at all during the day... we also had a set night routine. I had to give up bf at 2 1/2 weeks so Chloe is FF and if she stirs at night after her 9.30 feed (we wake her for this) we just put the dummy in and walk out... she generally feeds then at about 6-7am...... I would perhaps try settling, the way we do it is if she doesnt settle after 2 attempts we figure shes hungry.....

[MrsMiggins]

I have just deleted all unnecessary arguments re: pro vs anti-CC from this thread.

This is a final warning to keep posts on track & in line with the original topic.

Thank you.

[draught]

I am closing this thread as anti-CC members of the forum seem unable to control their need to post in here, despite warnings from moderators.

Thank you to all who contributed in a positive fashion. Many of the negative posts have been deleted, and infractions issued.