All 60 minutes threads... MERGED

[SilverStarfish]

Is anyone else watching this CR@P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????? :banghead:

Ch 9 "report" on AP parenting. :banghead:


I'm not a AP parent, but even I'm insulted. Their opening line "We don't want to put you off your dinner..." and showed a child breastfeeding.

I won't be BF my child to that age, but I CERTAINLY DO NOT FIND IT OFFENSIVE IF OTHERS CHOOSE TO!

OMG :banghead: :banghead:

[SilverStarfish]

"Co sleeping is abuse" says an expert.

I'm going to have to turn the TV off, or I'm going to throw something at it.

[Natsmummy]

It was obvious from the ad is was going to be a load of tripe so I didn't even bother watching - I knew it would just rile me up.

[SilverStarfish]

I knew it was going to be bad... but I wasn't expecting this vile load of rubbish.

[the_queen]

It hasn't started here yet - but I thought I'd be angry. Hearing your description so far, I actually feel like crying. Not only for the way they're attacking my parenting style but also I'm mourning the loss of journalistic integrity at channel 9.

[lukaelmo]

Yeah I just watched it... Janet F was on...

I can't understand why these shows can't report in an objective manner, they were so against AP, how is that reporting?

[EskimoMumma]

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
"your being socially negligent to your children!"

female intervewier : "excuse me, but where do you have sex?"


:eek:

I am not a part of the AP, i do my own thing and to be honest, if i wasnt a member of bubhub i would probably be thinking what bad bad parents, but ebcause i am more aware and not so ignorant of parenting styles and the likes, that show was so shocking, and portrayed AP as something that is completely negative, VERY uncommon and even harmful to your childs devolpment at school age. I was really disgusted by that..

[misskittyfantastico]

I think that all we can do is try and educate people as to what AP really is.

[SilverStarfish]

Queenie, I'd really advise you to have a stiff drink before you watch it. Their "expert"... OMG... so mad I could spit. :mad:

He actually said that co-sleeping was a sort of social abuse :eek: Tell that to all the cultures around the world that see it as totally normal.

:banghead:

[Shanaynay]

I'm not an AP'er either, BUT I AM SO OFFENDED :banghead: :mad:

[1+1=5]

whats your reaction to the 60 minutes Attachment parenting segment?
I'm still a bit disturbed by it, not sure if its the way it was presented or the people that they used for the segment.

[SilverStarfish]

DON'T :banghead: EVEN :banghead: GET :banghead: ME :banghead: STARTED

[lukaelmo]

female intervewier : "excuse me, but where do you have sex?"


:eek:



Teehee, the reporter and her hubby are obviously not too adventurous there :laughing:.

[Duchessa]

It was exactly as I expected. Total ****.

[SilverStarfish]

I loved her reply "Do you only have sex in the bedroom?"

[Billy]

:mad: I watched it with my head in my hands... What a terrible way to portray AP. They showed the absolute extremes- and NONE of the positives of AP... OMG just imagine what people who don't understand it in the first place are going to say NOW when you say your going by AP guidelines... :(

Good to know that by following our childrens cues we are ABUSING them!!! :eek: WTF???? :banghead:

[EskimoMumma]

:laughing:

No obviously they are not. I beleive her comeback was "so you only have sex in the bed?? There are other places you know and we do have 2 adult beds" Oh i could just grin and go "go girl!"

[~EmsMum~]

im interested to watch it when it comes on here

[Mrs Potts]

Without wanting to offend anyone, I have to say that those people are on a totally different planet to me when it comes to the way we raise our children.

What did those of you who do AP think of Dr John Irvine's comments? That is what interests me more I think.

[EskimoMumma]

Oh i know what you mean Billy!! And i cant beleive we are all posting this at the same time! :laughing:

You have to watch it, it is a must see, i am laughing, not at AP parents but at 60minutes, my respect for them has just plummetted extremely.

[*Chels*]

OMG Im actually fuming!!That stupid interviwer made me soooooooo angry!!Like she was talking down to Janet:shame:
Im disguisted that they made out like AP was a "new fad" and like parents who use this style of parenting are freaks!
Im just sooo mad I cant think straight:mad:

[our little treasures]

Yeah I just watched it... Janet F was on...

I can't understand why these shows can't report in an objective manner, they were so against AP, how is that reporting?

I was saying to hubby that I thought it was Janet F.. Very well spoken even in the eye of negaitivity.. That reporter was a smirky b****! Sorry but all she did was smirk and her comments in regards to bf putting you off your dinner!! OMG

[lukaelmo]

:mad: I watched it with my head in my hands... What a terrible way to portray AP. They showed the absolute extremes- and NONE of the positives of AP...

Yes, the reporting was an absolute joke, just for sensationalism... I never watch 60 mins or any of those shows, and I broke the rule for this one.

**** show.

[Shanaynay]

Maybe some of the more articulate Bubhubbers (not me :o ) could eamil 60 mins, their letter might get on next weeks show?


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: STILL MAD

[sopolicha]

That made me want to give away bf my 14 month old daughter, smack my other two children vigourously and send them to bed on their own in the dark

Just to top it off might let my husband give me and the kids a bit of touch up before he heads of to work tommorow.

If other people aren't hurting their themselves and their kids WHO CARES?

Do you think JanetF would have participated in the story if she knew how she would have been portrayed?

[*Chels*]

I dont know why they used those UK parents???They were soooo OTT.I would have rather seen aussie parents than UK ones.
And John Irvine is a ****

[lukaelmo]

That reporter was a smirky b****! Sorry but all she did was smirk and her comments in regards to bf putting you off your dinner!! OMG

She did smirk, all she wanted was a rise...

[our little treasures]

Oh i know what you mean Billy!! And i cant beleive we are all posting this at the same time! :laughing:

You have to watch it, it is a must see, i am laughing, not at AP parents but at 60minutes, my respect for them has just plummetted extremely.

I will watch next weeks to see the mail they get, which will all be sorted and only the best put on anyway!!
I can't believe that John Irvin tryed to say that 24hr mothering is doing more damage??!! WTF. All evidence that I have seen and heard have never said that actually to the contrary!!:mad:

My SIL will be revelling in this load of crock!!

[lukaelmo]

Do you think JanetF would have participated in the story if she knew how she would have been portrayed?

She must have known, or at least had an idea... 60 mins never has balanced reports...

[KarniF00l]

The AP's were very extreme. A terrible way to 'generalise' or 'portray' AP. 60minutes is a **** show :shame:

[Billy]

Yes, the reporting was an absolute joke, just for sensationalism... I never watch 60 mins or any of those shows, and I broke the rule for this one.

**** show.

So did I... Just wanted to know what my MIL will say NOW about the AP that we do....

I'm not as AP minded (I guess thats how I'd say it??) that these families are- just follow my DD cues on what she wants as much as I can, but co-sleeping was the WORST thing I could do for my DD according to my IL's... Now they have 'proof'... fantastic. :banghead: :rolleyes:

[veve]

ok - guys - all .. BREATHE .. lol

its current affairs .. of COURSE it is going to be a bias report ...

I am certainly not an AP person .. I love my baby cage.. and my 'dum dum' - however Jack is not neglected on any level...

I found it most annoying that they chose extremist (for want of a better word???) attachment parents for their report ... parents who refuse nappies (sorry .. but I giggled at the shot of the poo on the floor... I dont do AP .. but in nappy free time we have had several close calls.. rofl) .. schooling.. dummies ..

there are some WONDERFUL parents out there who use the attachment parenting approach .. and produce incredible children by it ..

I guess what the Attachment Parenting people out there need to do is bombard the mail at 60 minutes .. vent to the mail bag - and contact other media - about how annoyed you are . and that you would love to be interviewed to present a better perspective...

xx
Jen

[our little treasures]

No Janet F wouldn't have apparently the women were angry as it wasn't shown in the way they wanted.. I must admit I think Janet F was banned on here, but I always liked her posts and I feel she was very good in this interview!!

I think that if that reporter had of asked me about sex and got narky at me like she did to JF, I would have slapped her silly and told her to get out of my house!!

[Seekrit]

did anyone else exclaim "OMG! THAT WAS JANETF!!"

[1+1=5]

I think the what really got me was the comment about not wanting to put you off your dinner and then going in for the bf shoot! GREAT lets make breastfeeding into something that grosses people out because its so disgusting :banghead:. i don't care how old the child was, they still shouldn't be making comments like that. why didn't they say that the world average for bf is 9 years and it is in Western societies that such parenting is considered 'weird' but it is perfectly normal in other parts of the world. and why did they have to hunt down such a select group of interviewees. not al AP parents live in the bush, 60 mins portrayed these brave parents as hippies who can't control their kids.

as for their expert, i know what he means by social abuse. i don't really think he was disagreeing with AP parents as much as it was edited to. he was making the point that in the society we currently live in, here in australia, these kids (the ones in the segment) won't know what hit them when they move out into real society. that does not mean that AP parents are incorrect, it just means that its so against the grain that these kids will find the real world to be very different to what they are used to and that can cause social problems :ecomcity::ecomcity:.

[Pippi Longstocking]

What did those of you who do AP think of Dr John Irvine's comments?

What do I think of him? That I'd like to squirt him in the eye with my lactating breasts. What a bl00dy tosser! Negligent parenting indeed! I am so mad I could just spit! He said something along the lines of "bring your kid in to me in 5 years and they will have social adjustment problems'. Well Mr W@nkey doctor dude, my AP parented daughter is 11 years old and the most well-adjusted sociable confident popular child I know.

I am torn between cheering yay Janet! and crying poor Janet. She did so well, she handled that smirking smarmy ignorant reporter's loaded leading questions so well!

Of all the cr@p stories I have ever seen on telly, that one takes the cake.

[lukaelmo]

parents who refuse nappies (sorry .. but I giggled at the shot of the poo on the floor...

teehee, that would never happen to a devoted clothee such as yourself :laughing:... what would they say of your addiction you terrible smothering your child's bits you?

[Pixie]

Errr poo on the floor!!!
OK I consider myself a pretty much sling wearing, co sleeping mama but treading poo on the floor errrrrrr no I hope Eliza won't be doing that with my knowledge! What's AP about that lol

There were several things I found that annoyed me with the segment first the extreme angle in which they approached it, I understand why they want people to see what it's like when you go all out AP, But they could of also included people who follow many examples of AP/NP.

OK I have to go feed Eliza but I'll be back later to comment more!

Your views please :D

[Billy]

It really just upsets me that AP is hard enough to get people to understand without this type of portrayal... :banghead:

[bubbles28]

[QUOTE=Faeml;744572]"Co sleeping is abuse" says an expert. QUOTE]

I would have to agree with this expert.

My story is the other other side of AP, when it goes wrong.

I co-slept with my parents untill the age of about 10 and can not begin to tell you how much this has effected me socially and emotionally as a child and adult. I basically was not able to stay at friends houses as a kid. When I did, I would be in tears in the middle of the night crying cos wanting to go home because I missed my parents. I felt so much anguish being away form them for even short periods. I found it so hard at school, I was painfully shy and withdrawn. This has really affected me to this day.

Another reason I have social issues now is due to the fact that my parents had the 'gental discipline' approach. I have found it really hard to cope in situations as an adult where I don't get my own way and I find it hard to accept negative critism because as a child I use to always get my way and was never told 'NO".

I want to raise my children to be confident, strong and happy adults as we all do. But for this to happen IMO, I wont be following the AP style of parenting as it definatley 'stuffed' me up!

[RedPanda]

Sorry to be dopey, but who's Janet F? A bubhubber?

[*Chels*]

No Janet F wouldn't have apparently the women were angry as it wasn't shown in the way they wanted.. I must admit I think Janet F was banned on here, but I always liked her posts and I feel she was very good in this interview!!

I think that if that reporter had of asked me about sex and got narky at me like she did to JF, I would have slapped her silly and told her to get out of my house!!

Yes,she handled it really well.But you could tell she was getting grumpy lol
I would have slapped the b*ych for smirking at me and asking about my sex life:banghead:

[our little treasures]

there are some WONDERFUL parents out there who use the attachment parenting approach .. and produce incredible children by it ..

I guess what the Attachment Parenting people out there need to do is bombard the mail at 60 minutes .. vent to the mail bag - and contact other media - about how annoyed you are . and that you would love to be interviewed to present a better perspective...

xx
Jen

Just what I think, if we all express our concerns then it can't be ignored! Good lord how many people will now make comments to us just because they now have professional advice taht what we are doing is wrong!!! ARGH:banghead: MMMmmmmh my husband still sleeps in the bed with us I wonder how far that would have gone??:rolleyes:

[lukaelmo]

did anyone else exclaim "OMG! THAT WAS JANETF!!"

I smacked DP on the leg and said "I know her"!

Teehee, he couldn't watch the boob bit :laughing:.

[lukaelmo]

Sorry to be dopey, but who's Janet F? A bubhubber?

She used to be...

[Billy]

I think the what really got me was the comment about not wanting to put you off your dinner and then going in for the bf shoot! GREAT lets make breastfeeding into something that grosses people out because its so disgusting :banghead:. i don't care how old the child was, they still shouldn't be making comments like that. why didn't they say that the world average for bf is 9 years and it is in Western societies that such parenting is considered 'weird' but it is perfectly normal in other parts of the world. and why did they have to hunt down such a select group of interviewees. not al AP parents live in the bush, 60 mins portrayed these brave parents as hippies who can't control their kids.

as for their expert, i know what he means by social abuse. i don't really think he was disagreeing with AP parents as much as it was edited to. he was making the point that in the society we currently live in, here in australia, these kids (the ones in the segment) won't know what hit them when they move out into real society. that does not mean that AP parents are incorrect, it just means that its so against the grain that these kids will find the real world to be very different to what they are used to and that can cause social problems.

I do think that it is important to adjust our children accordingly to the outside world also... :yes:

[sopolicha]

did anyone else exclaim "OMG! THAT WAS JANETF!!"


*Puts hand up gingerly for fear of being squirted with breastmilk*

Yes, I did. I thought she was much younger and less confident than she appears online..............Funny who would have thought people are different in real life than they are on line.

[Billy]

*Puts hand up gingerly for fear of being squirted with breastmilk*

Yes, I did. I thought she was much younger and less confident than she appears online..............Funny who would have thought people are different in real life than they are on line.

Interesting isn't it?? :detective:

[Milliner]

I am certainly not an AP person .. I love my baby cage.. and my 'dum dum' - however Jack is not neglected on any level...

.. parents who refuse nappies (sorry .. but I giggled at the shot of the poo on the floor... I dont do AP .. but in nappy free time we have had several close calls.. rofl) .. schooling.. dummies ..


xx
Jen

I agree with you jen, I too love my "baby cage" ect

LOL We had a bit of a laugh at the poo poo bit. :laughing:

As for the "Don't want to put you off your dinner comment" :banghead: :mad: :banghead:

[lukaelmo]

My story is the other other side of AP, when it goes wrong.



See, you have something interesting to say... there are always two sides to every story, so why couldn't they show that?

Instead they tried to shock us with all the 5 year old BFing shots... if they had interviewed someone like you, who had had a bad experience, then it would have been a more valid approach.

[Miaow]

Im not AP but I get things all the time from my bf's family (and him) about EJ sleeping with me (mind you this is mainly cause she wont sleep in her 'baby cage' for long and she sleeps so much better when cuddled up against me) - hope they didnt watch this story :laughing:

That English couple were a bit extreme werent they :/

[our little treasures]

*Puts hand up gingerly for fear of being squirted with breastmilk*

Yes, I did. I thought she was much younger and less confident than she appears online..............Funny who would have thought people are different in real life than they are on line.

Hee hee I actually said she handlked it well because I followed some of her threads and to me she was very CALM on the show with what was in her face!!

Also did anyone else think they showed JF son crying too much?? Trying to make a point about look he is crying this and that.. I wanted to yell YES HE IS UPSET, so would I be if I had camera's in my house upsetting my MUM!!!:banghead:

[lukaelmo]

*Puts hand up gingerly for fear of being squirted with breastmilk*

Yes, I did. I thought she was much younger and less confident than she appears online..............Funny who would have thought people are different in real life than they are on line.

Nah, no way... :laughing:.

[*Chels*]

They made out like gentle discipline turns your kids into brats,I realise they edited it so that the kids were always screaming in every shot:shame: Im all for gentle discipline BUT Im not afraid to use the word no!
Also I think it is ridiculous to say that APing will turn your child into a social outcast.Already my son LOVES other kids,loves interacting and playing with his friends!

[our little treasures]

Oh and I am a AP and I own a cot, YES I AM LAZY........ The washing is in there filled to over flowing!!!

[bubbles28]

See, you have something interesting to say... there are always two sides to every story, so why couldn't they show that?

Instead they tried to shock us with all the 5 year old BFing shots... if they had interviewed someone like you, who had had a bad experience, then it would have been a more valid approach.


That's right, they tend focus on one side of the story.
Great way to get the ratings.

Can I just add, i'm not totally against all aspects of AP as I breastfed my Ds untill he self weaned at 12mths

[misskittyfantastico]

[QUOTE=Faeml;744572]"Co sleeping is abuse" says an expert. QUOTE]

I would have to agree with this expert.

My story is the other other side of AP, when it goes wrong.

I co-slept with my parents untill the age of about 10 and can not begin to tell you how much this has effected me socially and emotionally as a child and adult. I basically was not able to stay at friends houses as a kid. When I did, I would be in tears in the middle of the night crying cos wanting to go home because I missed my parents. I felt so much anguish being away form them for even short periods. I found it so hard at school, I was painfully shy and withdrawn. This has really affected me to this day.

Another reason I have social issues now is due to the fact that my parents had the 'gental discipline' approach. I have found it really hard to cope in situations as an adult where I don't get my own way and I find it hard to accept negative critism because as a child I use to always get my way and was never told 'NO".

I want to raise my children to be confident, strong and happy adults as we all do. But for this to happen IMO, I wont be following the AP style of parenting as it definatley 'stuffed' me up!

I slept with my parents until I was about 7...it was good for me because I needed the security.....I havent had any long lasting negative effects;)

[~EmsMum~]

That was an intresting show....

Bit annoyed with that american chick who said rockers etc were for lazy parents :banghead: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[lavenderpegasus]

I've never hear of this style of parenting, actually to be honest I wasn't aware there were really diferent types of parenting.

I'm assuming from all of the posts that AF parenting has been poorly repesented. But how? Icould see that it was a one sided report and it was something that the reporter obiously did agree on.

Personally I thought it all sounded above board, except the BF a five year old, but that is just me...

I didn't really see the idea behind the cots, being prisons??

[draught]

Okay - here is the email address to send all of these comments to 60 minutes: 60minutesmailbag@nine.com.au <60minutesmailbag@nine.com.au>

So ladies - get writing!! Bombard them with how unbalanced they were, etc - whether they show it or not it might make them think twice before they undermine parents who are doing the best for their children.

[our little treasures]

I also co slept with my mum and I am perfectly rounded.. My mum now co sleeps with all her grandkids on the couch they are all 2 and under..

[bubbles28]

[QUOTE=bubbles28;744653]

I slept with my parents until I was about 7...it was good for me because I needed the security.....I havent had any long lasting negative effects;)


That's great that it worked for you:thumbsup:

I just want to let others know that there is always another side to the story. For me, AP had a very long lasting negative affect.

[our little treasures]

That was an intresting show....

Bit annoyed with that american chick who said rockers etc were for lazy parents :banghead: :mad: :mad: :mad:

When looking for stuff for DS I actually was looking for it so I didn't have to hold him while doing things,. So I can understand what she means.. I was going to substitute rocker for me however I found the sling better!!

[lukaelmo]

[QUOTE=misskittyfantastico;744691]


That's great that it worked for you:thumbsup:

I just want to let others know that there is always another side to the story. For me, AP had a very long lasting negative affect.

And that is how the report should have been done, shown the positives and the negatives, and then let people draw their own conclusion...

Lol, I am not even AP, I just get so cranky at the tv :laughing:.

[our little treasures]

Thanks Draught.. you saved me from searching for it.. I will be writing but after the kids have gone to bed, I want to write an articulate educated letter.. With the kids around it will probably be Your show is s*** before I have to run of and put my hubby of his tea by BF my 14mnth old!! HAHAHAHAH

[Pixie]

Even my other half is saying why didn't they show people like us, your average joe just raising your kids to feel safe in their home, understanding right from wrong and getting on with life!

[Rell]

As a FF mother I am so use to the negative media attention associated with those who bottle feed instead of breast feed. Tthere will always be differnt opinions and "experts" with varying views, as long as YOU are happy with the way you parent who cares what the rest of the world thinks.

[~EmsMum~]

Even my other half is saying why didn't they show people like us, your average joe just raising your kids to feel safe in their home, understanding right from wrong and getting on with life!

I know that show tonight they showed the extremes

[*Chels*]

I want to write them a letter but I might wait so I can spend awhile composing it so I sound super smart:laughing:

[the_queen]

I'm sad. That made me sad.


*off to compose scathing email*

[our little treasures]

I'm sad. That made me sad.


*off to compose scathing email*

hehehehehehehe

Also how many fathers are there that could write their disgust as well, that way they know it is wrong from both parents!!

[RedPanda]

If anyone's email is read next week, make sure to take the credit and let us all know that it was yours! I'll be watching mailbag keenly next week, listening for familiar names!

[stellaj]

I didn't watch it as I knew it would make me so angry, one sided load of carp!

[1+1=5]

60 minutes would be lapping up this attention. their web site would be getting hits, they're going to get so much attention in the media if enough people get fired up. of course they are not out there to report the truth, that wouldn't be anywhere near as provoking as doing something as in insane as what they normally do, like tonight's story. what they care about is ratings and they don't really care about the moral cost to the community that they are affecting.

any publicity is good publicity, people are talking about their segment in a lot of forums now i'm sure and tomorrow people will be talking about 60 mins at work, day care, playgroup etc etc. we're giving them what they want really.

[Milliner]

I was shocked by that uk family they were very OTT

[Wish_Bear]

I had never heard of AP until I asked around BH and what was represented on 60mins seemed to me to be extreme. Is that the way you all do it? No nappies, cots etc? Breastfeeding till 5 yrs old?

To me it was all a little "weird". No one take offence please. I do not subscribe to AP and do not claim to know anything about it apart from what i've been told and have seen.

I know it's all about being there for your child 24/7 but I thought I was there 24/7 as a SAHM. I tend to their needs whenever and wherever, and do everything they want me to, to a degree.

Oh and who is this Janet.F. you all keep talking about?

That lady who said rockers and dummies are mummy subsitutes would be horrified in my home. I have about 20 dummies, a rocker and an automatic swing. But then again I didn't BF either. Guess she would have me locked away:laughing:

Interesting stuff, opened my eyes to a whole new style of parenting.

[li'l mac]

ok - guys - all .. BREATHE .. lol

its current affairs .. of COURSE it is going to be a bias report ...

I am certainly not an AP person .. I love my baby cage.. and my 'dum dum' - however Jack is not neglected on any level...

I found it most annoying that they chose extremist (for want of a better word???) attachment parents for their report ... parents who refuse nappies (sorry .. but I giggled at the shot of the poo on the floor... I dont do AP .. but in nappy free time we have had several close calls.. rofl) .. schooling.. dummies ..

there are some WONDERFUL parents out there who use the attachment parenting approach .. and produce incredible children by it ..

I guess what the Attachment Parenting people out there need to do is bombard the mail at 60 minutes .. vent to the mail bag - and contact other media - about how annoyed you are . and that you would love to be interviewed to present a better perspective...

xx
Jen


Well said.

[*Chels*]

60 minutes would be lapping up this attention. their web site would be getting hits, they're going to get so much attention in the media if enough people get fired up. of course they are not out there to report the truth, that wouldn't be anywhere near as provoking as doing something as in insane as what they normally do, like tonight's story. what they care about is ratings and they don't really care about the moral cost to the community that they are affecting.

any publicity is good publicity, people are talking about their segment in a lot of forums now i'm sure and tomorrow people will be talking about 60 mins at work, day care, playgroup etc etc. we're giving them what they want really.

Oh well good on 60minutes:rolleyes: I never watch it anyway and once the story was finished I flicked over to Idol:D
Everyone will just be talking about **** they are and how stupid their "reporters" are:mad:

[Seekrit]

i imagine that mailbag inbox is going to overflow...

[~EmsMum~]

i imagine that mailbag inbox is going to overflow...

ahhh you bet ya it will

[*Chels*]

I had never heard of AP until I asked around BH and what was represented on 60mins seemed to me to be extreme. Is that the way you all do it? No nappies, cots etc? Breastfeeding till 5 yrs old?

To me it was all a little "weird". No one take offence please. I do not subscribe to AP and do not claim to know anything about it apart from what i've been told and have seen.

I know it's all about being there for your child 24/7 but I thought I was there 24/7 as a SAHM. I tend to their needs whenever and wherever, and do everything they want me to, to a degree.

Oh and who is this Janet.F. you all keep talking about?

That lady who said rockers and dummies are mummy subsitutes would be horrified in my home. I have about 20 dummies, a rocker and an automatic swing. But then again I didn't BF either. Guess she would have me locked away:laughing:

Interesting stuff, opened my eyes to a whole new style of parenting.

AP is just a label.I breastfeed and dnt use a dummy or controlled crying.We have a cot but rarely use it.If Riley falls asleep on the boob at night,I will put him in cot to start off.But I dnt let him cry in there.I think they are like a baby jail.
And I think being a mum is 24/7.But whether you are AP or not,youre still a mum 24/7.
And yes I use nappies.We have nappyfree time at home but no pooing on the floor LOL

[SilverStarfish]

And flow it should... more rubbish in that "report" than my wheelie bin :banghead:

[our little treasures]

Oh well good on 60minutes:rolleyes: I never watch it anyway and once the story was finished I flicked over to Idol
Everyone will just be talking about **** they are and how stupid their "reporters" are:mad:

SO did we:D You would think that they would have kept the show until the end to make sure the ratings would stay for the entire show!!!:confused:

[the_queen]

And on the EC topic - who among us has NOT had poo on the floor at some stage of self-toileting?? I'm sure that mother would have cleaned up the poo - but oh no 60 minutes couldn't show that could they. Just zoom in on the shot of the child stepping in poo so everyone can say "ewwww dirty hippes" :mad:

[*Chels*]

Just want to add,if you arent familiar with AP styles,dont believe that **** on 60mins,check out the AP/NP threads on here where you can see what its all about:)

[SilverStarfish]

I'm sad. That made me sad.


*off to compose scathing email*

Didn't I tell you to get a stiff drink first? :laughing:

[*Chels*]

And on the EC topic - who among us has NOT had poo on the floor at some stage of self-toileting?? I'm sure that mother would have cleaned up the poo - but oh no 60 minutes couldn't show that could they. Just zoom in on the shot of the child stepping in poo so everyone can say "ewwww dirty hippes" :mad:

Soooo true:yes: I know our carpet has been peed on many a time!!:D

[the_queen]

Didn't I tell you to get a stiff drink first? :laughing:

Wendy, I would have, but as a hard-core dirty hippy, of course I'm breastfeeding ;) I did have a coke though :laughing: That's about as stiff as I get these days!

[Tannie]

I didn't think is was as poor as I expected! No one put words or actions in these peoples mouths - what you see and heard them saying - they said.......if you ever get interviewed etc for a show in ANY form of media - that's what you sign up for IMO :devil6:

Personally - I think Dr Irvine is right.......of the EXTREME forms of AP. I just cannot see how sheltering children SO much from the realities of life in a modern world can be a good thing. One day - they'll HAVE to encounter it...........what then?

I don't "agree" with the entire concept of a "style" of parenting though - I believe that putting a label on it and trying to do parenting a specific way by a "philosophy" actually is an oxymoron........if you ARE truly reacting to what a child wants - it seems hypocritical to decide BEFORE a child is even born what "type" of parenting you are going to do.....iykwim? Surely different children have different needs, so to not even give a child a chance to sleep in their own bed or spend time away from you........is in my mind, almost "forcing" a closeness for the parents peace of mind.......what if the child doesn't particularly like it? How would these parents ever KNOW if their child wanted "time-out" from being "close" to them if they never give them a chance??

I also think that these days, most decent, normal and caring parents are gentle with discipline, carry their bubs as much as they can, use co-sleeping if the child needs it and give their bubs nappy free time and breastfeed as long as they can etc etc etc..........that's what visiting these sorts of forums has made me realise.

I have found IN MY OPINION that many of the harder core "AP" parents who identify as such and carry on about it :ecomcity: Have actually either come from pretty dysfunctional parenting background themselves or previously had children and did things they aren't proud of......so now seem to be clinging to this "gentle style" to perhaps make themselves feel better and atone for sadness in their life. If one is truly at peace and at home with ones parenting and abilities as a person - one shouldn't NEED to identify with a "style" of parenting IMO.

I slept in my parents bed for a fair while - we all did....then until I was 5 and we moved to a bigger house, I slept in a double bed between 2 of my brothers.......even as teenagers we would all snuggle in together in the mornings! My mum spend "24/7" with us & dad had a job where he worked away, but was then home for extended periods & he was a very "hands on" dad....my parents never used physical punishment on us (long before it was fashionable & the norm)....but we were all bottlefed and my mum and dad are pretty "firm" with discipline and very much encouraged independence - in thought, own opinions, decision making and life in general. perhaps they WERE AP parents? who knows? I don't really care - I do a similar thing to them and "take" a bit of everything I read - from Gina Ford to the Natural parenting forums...............................

I dunno - when people get so very "upset" about their parenting "style".....I sort of have the feeling and attitude of "methinks they protest a bit too much....????".......iykwim?

T

[our little treasures]

Maybe us AP mummies could say what we do with our children VS what was shown.
THIS IS MY FAMILY NOT WHAT ALL AP'S DO!!

I BF will BF son until 2 at this point..
We COSLEEP
We use dummies
We don't use our cot
We don't use a rocker - ds doesn't like it anyway
We use nappies except nappy free time
We NEVER allow our children to cry to sleep not even in the car!!
I would never do CC
We used slings until I couldn't carry my big boy
I am a SAHM
I won't allow my children to go to CHILDCARE or 3yr old preschool
Both will go to school at the right ages
WE DON'T SMACK

Now this is only so you can see how far off these reporters made us out to be.. So feel free to post how you parent but DON'T ATTACK anything that I have put up..

[~EmsMum~]

AP is just a label.I breastfeed and dnt use a dummy or controlled crying.We have a cot but rarely use it.If Riley falls asleep on the boob at night,I will put him in cot to start off.But I dnt let him cry in there.I think they are like a baby jail.
And I think being a mum is 24/7.But whether you are AP or not,youre still a mum 24/7.
And yes I use nappies.We have nappyfree time at home but no pooing on the floor LOL

so you think cots are like a baby jail ????

[Kells]

As a FF mother I am so use to the negative media attention associated with those who bottle feed instead of breast feed. Tthere will always be differnt opinions and "experts" with varying views, as long as YOU are happy with the way you parent who cares what the rest of the world thinks.


Well said :yelclap: :yelclap:

Who really cares what the media, who are likely never to enter our home (let alone live with us!) think of the parenting style we use?? Do what works for you and your kids, and be happy that you did the best you could do :yes:

[bobby]

My story is the other other side of AP, when it goes wrong.

I co-slept with my parents untill the age of about 10 and can not begin to tell you how much this has effected me socially and emotionally as a child and adult. I basically was not able to stay at friends houses as a kid. When I did, I would be in tears in the middle of the night crying cos wanting to go home because I missed my parents. I felt so much anguish being away form them for even short periods. I found it so hard at school, I was painfully shy and withdrawn. This has really affected me to this day.

Another reason I have social issues now is due to the fact that my parents had the 'gental discipline' approach. I have found it really hard to cope in situations as an adult where I don't get my own way and I find it hard to accept negative critism because as a child I use to always get my way and was never told 'NO".

I want to raise my children to be confident, strong and happy adults as we all do. But for this to happen IMO, I wont be following the AP style of parenting as it definatley 'stuffed' me up!
Thank you, I really appreciate hearing your side of AP.
I believe in everything in moderation, I breastfed and doing this was a great deal of co sleeping. A calm approach is always good even with disipline as it can encourage reasoning skills.
The AP on 60 Min was portrayed as an extreme practise and most of the viewers who are parents will see through it, except thosewho tried to go textbook for controlled crying etc.

I feel that while a baby needs you, doesnt that mean have to be there for them, which means different things for different people and AP means different things to everyone.

Personally I think the UK couple took it a bit too far and did 60 Minutes buy this interview from over then and then set off to humiliate a couple of aussie girls?

[li'l mac]

I'm wondering if you would get a better result if you email a program like 'Sunrise' instead of 60 mins. If you email 60 minutes they will possibly take 15 seconds to read your email, and likely with a negative tone. If you took it up with Sunrise, who is on another TV channel, then they may do a story of their own and are likely to present it better just to say how poorly channel 9 did it! You may win more fans over to AP with a more balanced story than a bunch of cranky letters that 60 mins will not likely include.

Just a suggestion, I'm not AP but clearly your side of the story deserves a fair representation.

[our little treasures]

Just a suggestion,


Don't reply to viscious people who come on just to provoke and upset people... Lets keep posting as we are and when someone puts in a negative comment if we ignore it then they won't be able to make more.. IYKWIM

[our little treasures]

I'm wondering if you would get a better result if you email a program like 'Sunrise' instead of 60 mins. If you email 60 minutes they will possibly take 15 seconds to read your email, and likely with a negative tone. If you took it up with Sunrise, who is on another TV channel, then they may do a story of their own and are likely to present it better just to say how poorly channel 9 did it! You may win more fans over to AP with a more balanced story than a bunch of cranky letters that 60 mins will not likely include.

Just a suggestion, I'm not AP but clearly your side of the story deserves a fair representation.

MMMhhh after last weeks mothers group I don't think I would bother.... I don't think they would care!!

[Seekrit]

MMMhhh after last weeks mothers group I don't think I would bother.... I don't think they would care!!
took the words from my mouth

[Tannie]

Oh - just wanted to say that I cannot understand AT ALL how EC "fits" into the whole AP thing anyway? Surely it's sort of encouraging awareness of elimination BEFORE a child has the physical ability to do so? so in my mind thats pushing something that they simply aren't phsiologically capable of before they are ready for it?

I know that the theory of EC reckons that children DO have an awareness........but sorry - don't buy it. IF you study physiology and the way the nerves of the body are gradually myelonated to develop them into controllable, usable nerve cells - this is done from head down, hence we get control of brain, eyes...gradually "down" our body.......the nerve cells around the bladder and pelvic floor are very low in the body and that's simply why conscious control of them can't occur until myelonation (which is the growth of a coating called myelon around nerves which matures them into completely usable nerves..) is completed............this doesn't happen in the lower part of the body until around 18 months ++ - basically one can "see" it occuring through fine and gross motor development i.e walking, manuveuring pencils, spoons.............and so on.

Lets not kid ourselves - women in some / many countries don't use nappy's because a) they can't afford them - either to buy or replace b) they have no washing facilities and c) they barely have access to food, let alone washing powder!!! I don't think that millions of the worlds poor make a "choice" to not use nappies........it's just sadly how their life is :(

Also - to just let kids pee into bushes and the like is just NOT ON IMO!! :mad: How is that different to an adult just stopping and weeing wherever they like? I suppose these same people don't like disposable nappy using because we don't "dispose" of the poo? yet they are okay to let their child wee in a garden?? What's teh difference? at least my disposable nappies are going to the dump to be burned (which is also something I don't 'get' - if nappies are burned / incinerated at the dump - as they are here and also where I lived previously.........then what's the big problem exactly?!!!)

Gotta go before I get myself in trouble..........AGAIN :o :shame:
T

[Mum&bubs]

I didn't watch it but my mum has told me a little about it & seriously what a load of ****!! :mad: :mad:

[kiwibird27]

So when do these AP mums actually have lives???? And what happens when there kids grow up and don't need them???? They will be Mother in Laws from hell!!!!!

I know this probably showed the extreme side of AP - am sure lots of Mums use it in moderation - like every thing else!!!

[Seekrit]

kiwibird - not everyone needs to go out to have a life.

I'm not AP, but now that I have Cobes, he is my life. I still do things i used to do, but now I have to pack a nappy bag and a bub!

[Billy]

kiwibird - not everyone needs to go out to have a life.

I'm not AP, but now that I have Cobes, he is my life. I still do things i used to do, but now I have to pack a nappy bag and a bub!

Same here :thumbsup:

[veve]

I have to say (JMO lol) - that my cot (or JAcks cot .. :D) - is more of a safety area ... I wanted Jack to be independent .. and he actually loves his cot .. if we go out .. and he wakes up - he REACHES for his cot .. he feels safe and secure in there .. it is certainly not a jail or area used for punishment ..

I give him space.. and he loves it .. he loves his mummy .. but he is also an independent little boy .. I know that he is SAFE in his cot (I do not have to worry what he reaches for when he wakes... ) .. he has toys .. blankets etc in there .. he also has music etc .. he wants for nothing .. but it lets him have HIS time .. Jack knows that he only has to stand up and say mum mum mum - I'll come running - but I need my space .. and he needs his .. we are two seperate people .. (which is one reason why I dont think I could personally AP)

xxx
Jen

[our little treasures]

Kiwibird- When I decided to have children I understiood that for 20 odd years I would be a mum..

I do have a life I go to parks and lunch, movies, dinner and the likes.. I didn't realise that having a life requires no children... Anyways I know heaps of MIL's from hell who FF, and CC and they are still MIL from hell!! They way you parent has nothing to do with how your children will be when they get older PERSONALITY plays a huge role in it!!

[Freddyboy]

at least my disposable nappies are going to the dump to be burned (which is also something I don't 'get' - if nappies are burned / incinerated at the dump - as they are here and also where I lived previously.........then what's the big problem exactly?!!!)
T

Last time I checked they buried rubbish, not burned it?
So this means the poos stay in the nappies, it rains, the poo leaches into our water ways etc...........No burning going on at all :wave:
(Oh and 500 years later the disposables, but not the poo, is still there).
So perhaps that is a problem eh?:D

[Uzbard]

What in Earth is this .....this.... garbage! :barf: I am not an AP parent but for the sake of a story? Co-sleeping - supported by most of the WORLDS population (does 60 minutes really think that all those Indians, Africans, South Americans and Chinese live in 4 bedroom apartments with servants and the like?) And correct me if i'm wrong, but this is not strictly an AP practice.

Discipline - now there is a topic that will guarantee some ratings - one minute we are being told not to smack, tell-off, etc. Then, when it suits the story and there are parents that do not, we make them out to be "neglecting the child"?

The tabloid press loves nothing better than to head hunt parents that do not spend time with their children, then find a group of people that do nothing but support their offspring and nail them to the wall as well - well done. We can always count on "news" and "current affairs" programs to hate everyone equally.

Oh, and as for feeding the children till 5 and over - I personally do not support it - I personally dont want my DD asking to be fed and DW going to school to feed her either. However, the parents of these children want only the best for their kids and - world average age for brestfeeding is somewhere around 5 years old. Not my choice but at least respect the reason for these peoples actions.

Their techniques may not be standard, I know that I do not follow some of the techniques, but come-on, crawl out of your western focused, ill-advised, socially deficient, tabloid, rating driven, hole Channel 9 and 60 Minutes and at least review the world standard of parenting. Maybe even offer more than one point of view and 5 minutes air-time?

Rant over - TV off. :mad:

[Tannie]

BF will BF son until 2 at this point..
We COSLEEP
We use dummies
We don't use our cot
We don't use a rocker - ds doesn't like it anyway
We use nappies except nappy free time
We NEVER allow our children to cry to sleep not even in the car!!
I would never do CC
We used slings until I couldn't carry my big boy
I am a SAHM
I won't allow my children to go to CHILDCARE or 3yr old preschool
Both will go to school at the right ages
WE DON'T SMACK

See - that's just my point........I wasn't successful at b/f - neither of my kids like to co-sleep - but little one does sometimes IF she wants to - no biggee......we have a rocker, but she's over it now - she enjoyed it for a few months - but if she cried, she didn't have to stay in it etc.........the rest of it is SAME for us! Oh - sorry - my girls go to a short stay daycare place from 9-3 one day a week cause I am on my own every 2nd week and need to be able to get housework done etc - I dont' like to mop the tiles with the kids around cause it's so slippery and dangerous for them and I'm not into "disciplining" them to stay off really - older one (20 mths) is just starting to work out it's not a good idea to try walk on a wet floor - but I find it easier to just do it when they aren't here).....I spend every moment practically with them other then that - I went out for a few hours last Friday night for the FIRST time since having children!! Haven't really wanted to or had anyone we trust to look after them before........so I don't think anyone can critizise us for not spending time with our kids.

I have a couple of slings and carriers and have used them until bubs too heavy......but used the Baba type one just the other day again for a while.......but I get a sore back and neck from any type of them - it's dodgy (accident when a child) - but do "carry" my bubs a fair bit - even when out........often end up with groceries and nappy bag in the stroller and baby on hip ;) Luckily20 month old LOVES to walk everywhere atm - but sometimes still end up with BOTH on me - phew!!

Try not to let them cry much - sometimes though - juggling 2 babies at once - it's unavoidable.........but mostly it's a pretty "no cry zone" and happy in this house - even my neighbours say so! I haven't ever had to go down teh CC path - little bub has been a bit frustrating with sleep (she loves to wake at 4am) but am learning to live with it and she is gradually improving.......

but - I don't say I'm an AP parent and never would.......my life is devoted to my kids and at the moment, because of their age - they are "centre of the universe" as it should be IMO..........BUT - they wear nappies, they sleep in their own cots (they share a room and often wake up and "chat" to each other now - gorgeous!!) we say "no" if we have to to really get a point across and distraction isn't working....we would never smack unless there was no other option i.e going for a hotplate repeatedly or to get attention if running onto the road........having said that - I haven't smacked the 20 mth old yet and would like NOT to ever have to........I dont' believe in more then a day or 2 childcare and not LONG days until at least 3 yrs.....hopefully I'll be able to stay out of the workforce until they are schoolage - but as I work in a career which is flexible, I can always work when hb home anyway............

again though -don't think how I parent is greatly different from 90% of other parents I know.......but maybe then my entire "social circle" are closet APers!!!??? LOL

I jsut think we ALL do it how we do it - each to their own.....unless it's clearly abusive - then I couldn't care less really.........I just get annoyed that "APers" make out the rest of us are almost abusive and their way is "better" is a constant theme.......better for them perhaps, but who says it's better overall or for everyone?

T

[meme]

Oh - just wanted to say that I cannot understand AT ALL how EC "fits" into the whole AP thing anyway?



well, i too have been sceptical of ec. mainly because i feel it's basically what i have always done with my kids at tt time anyway only younger, so i nerver saw the point in starting earlier.....but

what is amasiing is that even though a baby does not have control of weeing pooping, if youy tune into your bub you can notice they have 'cues' or actions they will do when they are going to wee orpoop. you may have noticed older babies have a 'pooing' face, grunt or posture, well it's like noticeing this, only at a much younger age and subtler level.

it is not about independant toileting but about tuning into your baby and being able to avoid nappies, for the environment and for your baby not haveing to sit in a wet or poopy nappy i am guessing.

not everyones cup a tea, not mine, but i can see why people would choose to do this.


Also - to just let kids pee into bushes and the like is just NOT ON IMO!! How is that different to an adult just stopping and weeing wherever they like?

:laughing: why do people have hang ups about baby wee? the first thing my little one did to me when i got home from hospy was pee all over me!! maybe because i am a little bit country i really don't see the problem, i mean people let their dogs wee on bushes:eek:

and yes, i have done the odd bush wee myself:o
well that's all totally ot :D as for the show, totally missed it so glad i did. i do not label my parenting, but i identify with many things labelled ap.

will try to catch the mailbag next week

[Mojogal]

Can someone please tell me if by co-sleeping, we're talking only Mum sleeps with the baby/babies/kids in a special bed just for them and Dad has a separate bed? Or is it all kids in Mum and Dad's bed every night? Or just some nights?

Seems co-sleeping may mean different things to different people, as one couple in tonight's show had Dad in a separate bed, but I know plenty of parents who have their babies in bed with both of them, either all the time, or whenever baby seemed happier there.

This is just one example of an "AP" guideline, and it has many meanings to different people. It stands to reason then, that ALL guidelines/rules/definitions in pretty much all parenting styles are open to interpretation/debate/personal imprint, and so then have widely differing meanings to different families.

Labelling leads to segregation and often prejudice, especially when it is portrayed in the media in such a one-sided, extreme and degrading fashion. I think all you 'AP' parents out there should be offended, and as a 'go with the flow' parent, I am too. I can only hope that MOST parents out there understand how personal parenting is and has to be - how pretty much no two families parent EXACTLY the same way. And some, gods forbid! may be actually VERY different to your own techniques and 'style' - but that really should be ok with you. If you want your parenting to be left to you, as you see fit, then you should afford the same to all other parents too, IMO

I know most of the people here at BubHub at least have open enough minds to accept that other people do things differently to us sometimes, so I would like to hope that the general populace can do so too. Sadly, there will always be people who completely disagree with you and have to be rude and judgemental towards you about it. At least you will know how limited their experience must be, and therefore really how ignorant they are.

Chin up AP-ers, there are plenty of us who applaud your choices and yet choose differently ourselves. I am one of them.

(sorry for the rant) :o

[Freddyboy]

So when do these AP mums actually have lives????

Yeah I suppose those who use dummies, bottles, cots, prams, daycare all have lives...but the others...nope no life....sad isn't it to think that they might have a child to actually spend time with it *gasp*;)

[reAllytee]

I co-slept with my parents until the age of 5 or 6yrs of age & still went in as needed & while i dont suffer majorally from it i do have major abandonment issues as well as insomnia.
Thats how they should have looked at this not using some expert who tells me because im here for my son 24/7 im a bad mum ummmm hello most mums have been like this gees look back in the days when women werent allowed to work or vote they were to tend to the kiddies !!!!
I wasnt overly offended by it because i knew they would use the extremes like the U.K couple & the American woman .... Sorry but poo all over your house is really really unsanitary, the whole "baby cages" & saying rockers were for neglectful parents was rather annoying because obviously was lucky in having a baby that didnt like to be rock continously to fall asleep & was 5kgs+ in weight !
I did scream at the t.v that OMG THERE IS JANETF !!!!! :laughing:
I think she absolutely handled herself beautifully & is a credit to herself & her family !
Thats true AP & that was what shone through for me someone who is confident in their parenting & handles themselves well because of it !
I would have to say that if AP is what you do & your confident in it etc then i wouldnt really worry about what the likes of 60 minutes runs as a story after all they arent exactly known for their top notch journalism !

[Mojogal]

Meme if I'd had another 1/2 an hour for typing, I would have said what you said too! :yes: lol

I guess in my way I did.

[ShadyCharacter]

Another reason I have social issues now is due to the fact that my parents had the 'gental discipline' approach. I have found it really hard to cope in situations as an adult where I don't get my own way and I find it hard to accept negative critism because as a child I use to always get my way and was never told 'NO".Erm, no part of 'Attachment Parenting' or Gentle Discipline involved letting your child have their own way all the time.... sounds to me like your parents (with all good intentions) practiced 'no discipline' rather than gentle discipline.

[Seekrit]

Can someone please tell me if by co-sleeping, we're talking only Mum sleeps with the baby/babies/kids in a special bed just for them and Dad has a separate bed? Or is it all kids in Mum and Dad's bed every night? Or just some nights?

Whatever works, I believe.
We "co-sleep" in the way that Cobey shares our room, in his bassinet by the bed. He wakes at 5am, and then he's in bed with us until he fully wakes up :)

Some people have kids in bed with both of them all the time, sometimes one in the bed, another in another bed, others have the children's bed/cot pushed against their own so it's like a 3 person bed etc.

[curlz]

well, I've learned a lot tonight. I watched the 60mins show first then read the posts pre and post when the show aired. Certainly seems like a hot topic and maybe one that's not so talked about down in SA. From all your posts it sounds like there's a big range in how mums practice "ap" parenting - but I do have to admit after watching the show I did think that the practices that were shown seemed pretty extreme. (please don't shoot me down in flames :devil6: but .........) I don't think "ap" parenting is for me, and I do have concerns about how children on the extreme end integrate in the world.

Yeah, i think it's true that being more child focussed these days is a good thing but I need my personal space/ me time (which includes sleeping in a separate room from my kids) Obviously there are a LOT of u out there that are cool with cosleeping etc. but I would find a lot of things you've associated with "ap" to make me feel claustraphobic and I'd go nutso!! I crave my independance and freedom. I'm a SAHM but need to see myself as a separate entity to my kids, and I love seeing them develop in their independance. Horses for courses!!!

[our little treasures]

Tannie

I wasn't going to respond but I will..

Most of us are expressing our views on AP and the segment shown on 60 minutes.

I have read all the posts again and again I have not found one AP that actually is putting anyone down except the 60 minutes showing!!

I wish to have this thread stay open as I appreciate others views, however I don't appreciate trouble makers who want to turn everything into a debate!!


If you agree with 60 minutes then fine state it but without offending others!!

[ShadyCharacter]

I also think that these days, most decent, normal and caring parents are gentle with discipline, carry their bubs as much as they can, use co-sleeping if the child needs it and give their bubs nappy free time and breastfeed as long as they can etc etc etc..........that's what visiting these sorts of forums has made me realise.
So you keep saying. Why don't you do a poll? A multiple choice one. Ask how many people here:

Think it is ok to smack a child
Think it is ok to yell at a child
Think it is ok to use controlled crying
Think it is ok to ignore a child crying because 'they are just grizzling'
Do NOT agree with holding and carrying their child as much as possible.
None of the above.

If I understand what you are saying correctly, majority of the parents here would tick 'None of the above' right?

[Tannie]

meme - interesting - yes - I do sometimes have an idea when my kids are "about to go"........but making it to the loo or somewhere appropriate in time might be a bit of a stretch for me!! Mostly, they are already going by the time it happens (or seconds away from going) I have 2 bubs 11 1/2 months apart....so both are still babies, both eat and poo like bloody professional waste disposal units :eek: .... just keeping their nappies 'under control' is a challenge some days.....:p

I'm not scared of baby wee!! Too bad if I was!! BUT - what's good for the goose is good for the gander - if everyone went around letting their kids pee into bushes etc.......then imagine how foul and polluted with human waste our public spaces would get?? sure - sometimes it's unavoidable with little kids and when babies are really little, it's not very concentrated....but after only a few months, it's no different then adult wee......there are appropriate places for ALL humans to do their "waste" functions and in public areas is not okay in my mind. I'm sure the EPA and health authorities might have something to say about that too if it became the "norm"!! Seems a bit hypocritical to me to carry-on about use of disposable nappies and how "polluting" they are, then let your kids wee or poo in the bushes!?!?!

Freddyboy - well - they def incinerate SOMETHING at the local "waste disposal facility..." and did at teh last town I lived in too - I SAW them burning when out there dumping several times........and I know smoke and fire when I see it!!??!

EAch to their own - but I do agree with Dr Irvine on much of what he said about socialisation and learning to cope with lifes little "bumps" and becoming resilient. I too would LOVE to be able to protect my children from every harm, sadness adn disappointment that life will throw in their way...........but I can't :crying: .........the best I can do is teach them how to cope and to manage and that despite lifes rotten unfairness sometimes?? YOU CAN get through it ....there IS a way forward and sometimes youjust have to have a sad "cry" and say "life sucks sometimes" and move on...........past is past and we all have to move foward. How can a child who has been overly sheltered from lifes inheret "unfairness" ever going to learn resilience??

T

[bubs_and_us]

well, that was a ridiculous piece or reporting if i ever saw one.... im not a AP, but i have a fair idea in the values of APing.... and as far as i could see, they have taken a lot of it and twisted it.....

in saying that though, one of the mums referred to a bouncer as something a negligent/lazy mum uses.... i find that offensive. i use a rocker, swing and walker but dont consider myself lazy in any way.

[ShadyCharacter]

Tannie

I wasn't going to respond but I will..

Most of us are expressing our views on AP and the segment shown on 60 minutes.

I have read all the posts again and again I have not found one AP that actually is putting anyone down except the 60 minutes showing!!

I wish to have this thread stay open as I appreciate others views, however I don't appreciate trouble makers who want to turn everything into a debate!!


If you agree with 60 minutes then fine state it but without offending others!!
Thank you! :yelclap:

[our little treasures]

I think the Janet F's hubby sleeps in another room to get sleep for work etc.. I know fathers that sleep out of the bed for quality sleep and room!! My DH enjoys cosleeping with us, I have slept on the couch so DS would stop smelling the boob all night so he didn't have to cry and I say no. IYKWIM
Same as DH when he is sick or needs a good sleep he jumps on the couch!!
It works for us in so many different ways..

[the_queen]

I just want to give my children the security so they have the confidence to go out into the world. I want to be their "soft place to fall"
Shed said it best: If you know there's a safety net, you're more likely to try the trapeze.

[Freddyboy]

I crave my independance and freedom. I'm a SAHM but need to see myself as a separate entity to my kids, and I love seeing them develop in their independance. Horses for courses!!!

Why is it that people assume that those who practice AP don't have a life?
Are people also missing the point that these children do have independence, that this type of parenting encourages it?? :banghead:

[pookiesossige]

Shed said it best: If you know there's a safety net, you're more likely to try the trapeze.

I will never forget that. That is beautifully put. :yelclap:

[Billy]

I just want to give my children the security so they have the confidence to go out into the world. I want to be their "soft place to fall"
Shed said it best: If you know there's a safety net, you're more likely to try the trapeze.

:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[veve]

Why is it that people assume that those who practice AP don't have a life?
Are people also missing the point that these children do have independence, that this type of parenting encourages it?? :banghead:

be careful freddyboy - you are also generalising ..

I certainly dont think that APers in general dont have a life!!! - having said that... I think that the english couple on the tv tonight dont .. they have removed themselves from everything .. to spend time with their kids .. ALL their time with the kids ...

I dont know that I agree with your second statement though ??? I dont know that the APing that I have seen encourages independence ..?? but then again .. maybe I just haven't had enough info .. ?? maybe I just cant see the joys in it that the APers see???

xx
Jen

[our little treasures]

I just want to give my children the security so they have the confidence to go out into the world. I want to be their "soft place to fall"
Shed said it best: If you know there's a safety net, you're more likely to try the trapeze.

:) Well said.

I really don't think after researching it that children are not going to cope socially. My DD is only 2 and she copes well in social situations and is very friendly with other children. By being AP it doesn't mean that my 2 don't interact with other children..

It's interacting with children where they learn how to socialise!!

[Tannie]

There's a big difference between thinking it's "ok" to do something i.e. Yelling at your child.........and actually having the guts to admit that you do it on occasion!! I think most people agree that yelling is "not on" ...but....most DO do it from time to time.............we're all human.

I also think that you can be gentle and kind to your children, yet, have had to use methods such as CC........I know several parents who have used this technique out of sheer necessity and it HAS worked and they ARE wonderful, loving and gentle parents. It's very judgemental IMO to say 'you shouldn't do this, you shouldn't do that..." EVERY person / families circumstances are unique............and I for one think that a few weeks of pain to get a child sleeping - is betteer in the longer term then parents who are EXHAUSTED and totally dis-spirited due to lack of sleep - which we all know is torture and way more likely to lead to situations of "lack of control"..........mothers and fathers aren't superhumans!!! Don't judge people / parents until you have "been there"........I would use it if I really had to - luckily - I haven't had to, but I don't think badly of parents who do.

I also DO think that MOST parents try to comfort their children as much as they can........in my case.......my 8 month old is just about crawling, but gets terribly frustrated on her belly now (has never liked tummy time - since day one:thumbsdown: ).......so I try to comfort her whilst being close and getting down with her - I guess I could just continually pick her up - but that will delay her crawling and prolong the frustration for her even longer poor little thing :crying: So I give her a few minutes in the 'position" so she can learn what she's doing.......today she tended to immediately grizzle when ending up on tummy, but after about 60 seconds, realised it wasn't SO bad & started reaching out and rolling back and forth and even ENJOYING herself!!

So she does a fair bit of grizzling and crying atm.......but I'd say in a week, she'll be crawling and happy as a little pig in mud again!! :smiliedance:

There is a HUGE difference between distress and distressed crying and a frustrated grizzle or simply using grizzling to communicate. IMO - babies can only communicate in this way - so that's why my bubs might be crying one second, then I pick them up or talk to them or whatever and in a split second....laughing and happy! Completely normal and they are learning what emotion and communication is all about........response has to be swift and appropriate and sometimes picking up isn't the answer is it? Distraction and getting on their level etc is more useful.

Smacking - is a hard one.........cause again - there is a world of difference between the odd smack if it's the only thing to stop the child from absolute danger (as in going for the hot front of the oven for the 10th time!!) vs hitting / belting and actually using physical punishment as a form of discipline regularly.

I don't know where they do these surveys that have been published lately - but I can't believe that most parents would want to "physically punish" on a regular basis anymore?? I think most of us realise that it more reflects the parent losing control then anything else and would much prefer to use other methods...........but again - I'm sure people who don't WANT to hit their children, occ do - they probably feel bad afterwards.......and in the context of a normal, loving home, and it's very occasional - it's probably unlikely to have any great lasting negative effects.............we're all human afterall and kids can understand that parents also make mistakes.

Again - I don't judge the odd parent who admits to this - I will be extremely surprised if I can manage to get my kids grown up without ever smacking them!! I'm gonna try my best - but I'm not superhuman either........my parents managed it pretty much - I can only recall getting whacked by mum once when i was about 7 yrs old..........and boy oh boy - what an effect it had - I was shocked +++ cause my mum almost NEVER lost control like that !!!??? BUT.........I sure deserved it too....:devil 6: Good on her I say - she was a saint for putting up with what she did with us!! Love her to bits.

T

[veve]

It's interacting with children where they learn how to socialise!!

I think that was one of the first things I thought of when I saw that brittish couple and their kids .. I hvae no isses with home schooling when it is done properly (I'm a teacher .. I know how strained the system is) - but .. I really really hope that those kids SEE other kids .. I hope they have a chance to know that other families are different (beliefs.. approaches.. diets.. familey structure etc)

xx
JEn

[Billy]

I think that was one of the first things I thought of when I saw that brittish couple and their kids .. I hvae no isses with home schooling when it is done properly (I'm a teacher .. I know how strained the system is) - but .. I really really hope that those kids SEE other kids .. I hope they have a chance to know that other families are different (beliefs.. approaches.. diets.. familey structure etc)

xx
JEn

I was wondering if those kids SEE any other kids too!! :confused: :detective:

[Tannie]

Angelbaby8 - i'm not trying to put down your "style" of parenting or be deliberately argumenative. I am simply a person who likes to explain WHY I think something.......I grew up with parents who encouraged us to have strong opinions, but also to explain and express why / the rationale behind our thinking. In our house - if you said something, you had to back it up with showing some thought and that you had given the idea some due analytical consideration.

This often gets me in trouble on here I know.....I have so many infractions I'll probably get banned soon - at least temporarily!!

HOWEVER - in all this theory of ....we want our children to be able to think independently and have a soft place to fall etc.........well - I would say that is EXACTLY what my parents did and exactly WHY I argue my points and liek to "explore" a topic and theme and not just say a few statements and disappear into cyberspace!

I don't necessarily DISAGREE with AP at all - don't get me wrong. BUT - some of it is not practical or realistic given the world these kids have to go out and live in......and may be more cruel to them in the longer run. We can't "hide" from the real world unfortunately once we are adults.....unless we have VERY rich parents!!! lol

I too was homeschooled for a period of time........so I would say to those of you who don't like my opinions........IF you ARE APers, then I think my parents were pretty much "ap'ers of their generation"........the BE WARNED you better get used to people like me - cause this just MIGHT be the kids you end up with!! if you encourage loving discussion, questioning of authority and challenging the "norm" and have a big happy family that do lots of cuddling, closeness and grow your own food!!!! :laughing: :yelclap:

Oh - and I get on fabulously with my parents and siblings....no problems there at all. My parents are arriving to stay on Tuesday and I'm just beside myself with excitement atm:kiss:

Yep - the 60 mins story WAS extreme -but that was the point I guess - no point putting a story on about a topic and only showing "mild" versions........surely?

Yep - felt the English family were burying heads in sand - very unrealistic lifestyle........poor kids might LOVE their home - but I doubt they'll enjoy anyone elses much unless they are also AP devotees to that extreme.

T

[Tannie]

Well - off to bed now - got my post count up for the day...:thumbsup:
Sleep well bubhubbers.......with OR without your bubs next to you :hugs:
Peace, love and all that stuff :kiss:
T

[Little Gorilla]

If my only exposure to AP was what was shown on 60 minutes, well I would be pretty put off the whole AP idea and would think that all APers were looneys.

However, since I know that most APers are not so extreme - then I can balance up what I saw on 60 minutes with what I have learnt from bubhub.

Truthfully, until I joined bubhub I had never heard of AP.

I could never be an AP parent - I like dummies, I don't want to do extended breastfeeding, I like prams, I don't want my child sleeping in my room ALL the time, I like disposable nappies, I like using the word "NO" when disiplining my child...but despite all this, I think my child will turn out as stable, happy, loving, cultured, movitvated, nurtured and ambitious as a child who was bought up by APers.

[our little treasures]

If my only exposure to AP was what was shown on 60 minutes, well I would be pretty put off the whole AP idea and would think that all APers were looneys.

However, since I know that most APers are not so extreme - then I can balance up what I saw on 60 minutes with what I have learnt from bubhub.

Truthfully, until I joined bubhub I had never heard of AP.

I could never be an AP parent - I like dummies, I don't want to do extended breastfeeding, I like prams, I don't want my child sleeping in my room ALL the time, I like disposable nappies, I like using the word "NO" when disiplining my child...but despite all this, I think my child will turn out as stable, happy, loving, cultured, movitvated, nurtured and ambitious as a child who was bought up by APers.

:yelclap: This is excactly what I mean. Someone who doesn't and isn't an AP but not wanting to put those that do and are down!!

[reAllytee]

If my only exposure to AP was what was shown on 60 minutes, well I would be pretty put off the whole AP idea and would think that all APers were looneys.

However, since I know that most APers are not so extreme - then I can balance up what I saw on 60 minutes with what I have learnt from bubhub.

Truthfully, until I joined bubhub I had never heard of AP.

I could never be an AP parent - I like dummies, I don't want to do extended breastfeeding, I like prams, I don't want my child sleeping in my room ALL the time, I like disposable nappies, I like using the word "NO" when disiplining my child...but despite all this, I think my child will turn out as stable, happy, loving, cultured, movitvated, nurtured and ambitious as a child who was bought up by APers.


LMFAO !!!!!!
BG - Hun just because you use a dummy doesnt mean you cant be AP that woman who said things like that & rockers etc arent used by AP'ers was talking out her ummmm yeah well :p
One of my fav people on here is an AP'er & often doesnt do the "conventional AP lifestyle" but that doesnt maker her any less AP.
I always thought of myself along the lines of AP but since coming on here i get shot down so yeah :rolleyes:

[ShadyCharacter]

I wasn't actually asking what YOU do Tannie, you have told us repeatedly. I was questioning your view on what 'most' parents do. Yes, I have yelled out of frustration, but I DO NOT think it is ok. In my view, most parents would think that some or all of those things are ok. In your view, most parents are AP parents and would not think they are ok.

[veve]

hi :)

just a quick reminder to keep this thread nice - (so far it has been a very interesting conversation)

- please .. if there is a post that upsets you due to it being offensive or irrelevant .. please use the report function (click on the ! in the top right corner) rather than entering into an arguement ..

thanks
Jenny

[SassyMummy]

I taped it just so I could have my say about it on BubHub. lol.

The thing that sickened me more than ANYTHING else, was the fact that at the very beginning of the report, it was suggested that seeing a woman breastfeed, would put you off your dinner. That made me SO furious!

Then of course, the reporter went on, like a snotty brat, to suggest that AP parents are somehow "crazy hippies" who had "no lives" and were "abusive" to their children. What a crock.

It was SO incredibly misleading... in the foreword of the report, the reporter suggested that critics (the plural) thought AP-parented kids would turn into "spoilt brats." It was stupid that there was only ONE man giving his opinion.

There seemed to be negatives mainly associated with the fact that Mum is there ALL THE TIME for the kids, and that there is "no discipline" (or so they suggested, I'm aware that that's not usually the case). Not once did the "expert" comment on the positives of extended breastfeeding or baby-wearing or anything. Or at least, they didn't bother to air it (if he did).

Homebirth was even subtly put-down, which offended me (even though I'd never in a MILLION years want a homebirth!). Talking about mothers not wanting intervention as if any mother who didn't want to be doped up to her eyeballs with drugs and requesting a c-section and tummy-tuck all in one at a private hospital, were insane hippies! (that's the impression I got anyway). SERIOUSLY!

I found it amusing that, while they seemed to label AP as something with a set list of rules, one mother condemned dummy-usage, while, in a shot of the UK family, the 5-year-old was sucking on one! That, IMO, made it obvious that there are "guidelines" as to what fits into the "AP" category, but also proved that there are so STRICT rules.

I wasn't offended that the mother didn't like cots or rockers... I don't fancy a homebirth or homeschooling. To me, that was just her opinion, so it didn't bother me much.

I do think they tended to show the "extremes" of Attachment Parenting, and it was ridiculous that they showed an American and a UK family...and only ONE Aussie Mum!

It would have been nice if they had spoken to MORE THAN ONE "expert"... since most experts like to argue and have different views... so what that "expert" says really doesn't mean squat.

They should have taken a look at WHO, and noted that breastfeeding until TWO AND BEYOND is recommended. They should have also listed a bunch of the benefits...rather than basically suggesting that AP parents were psychotic hippies who were too "selfish" to let their kids grow up. PUH LEASE!

[meme]

I could never be an AP parent - I like dummies, I don't want to do extended breastfeeding, I like prams, I don't want my child sleeping in my room ALL the time, I like disposable nappies, I like using the word "NO" when disiplining my child...but despite all this, I think my child will turn out as stable, happy, loving, cultured, movitvated, nurtured and ambitious as a child who was bought up by APers.

:laughing: i identify with being an ap parent and i like dummies (not that my babies had one, but not for want of trying!) i will prolly not extended breastfeed ( i don't see breastfeeding a toddler as extended though, just normal:D ),i love prams ,i have used disposables and still would except i found out how much fun modern cloth is, i use the word no as much as i want, , own a cot and rockers, don't alwasy sleep in the same room as my child and think my kids will turn out ok....i might be a raving loony myself though:laughing:

[reAllytee]

:laughing: i identify with being an ap parent and i like dummies (not that my babies had one, but not for want of trying!) i will prolly not extended breastfeed ( i don't see breastfeeding a toddler as extended though, just normal:D ),i love prams ,i have used disposables and still would except i found out how much fun modern cloth is, i use the word no as much as i want, , own a cot and rockers, don't alwasy sleep in the same room as my child and think my kids will turn out ok....i might be a raving loony myself though:laughing:


Knew i liked you for a reason :p

[Mamaduke]

Well, goodnight ladies and may I just leave you with this...
All of us as parents believe within the depths of our souls and with every ounce of our beings, that we're raising our children to become the best they can be, and in using the methods we do, our ultimate goal is healthy happy children...
who gives a stuff what 60 minutes (or anyone else for that matter) says!
Sweet dreams :wave:

[cheezelkat]

I could only read the transcript (playing the sims :o ) and it seems to be a bit extreme.

Some people may label me AP, some others don't. I cosleep, breastfeed and wear my baby, but I will happily use a rocker, pram and a disposable nappy if I'm going out. I don't use a dummy, but I don't want to breastfeed for 5 years either. And the word "NO" gets used frequently!

I think far too much emphasis is put on labelling people. Only the minority will fit in the most extreme ends.

[annb]

Im sorry but I didnt think the 60mins report was one sided at all, I thought it gave ample opportunity for the AP's to tell their side of things and the interviewer was really only asking questions people who dont know much about co-sleeping/extended b/f etc would have wanted to know but might be afraid to ask. I thought they gave both sides of the story, whether you agree with it or not.
Personally I thought the woman b/f her 5yr old kids looked like a milk cow getting her boobs out all the time and squeezing it into your husbands eye well thats just wrong!! I love my son and we are guiding him to be a well behaved, life loving, sociable little boy, he does however sleep in a cot, has a dummy to go to sleep, was b/f until 9mths old, goes out in his pram and doesnt pooh on the floor and I would say he is better behaved than any of those kids in that show. I would love to see how those kids are when they are 15yrs old.

[little mermaid]

What I dont understand is how anyone can let a young child scream at them and call them an idiot and not give a damn. Now that is wrong!!! IMO I can imagine these types of kids to be the ones that have no respect for other people and doing graffiti on walls and the parents saying "oh what lovely art work darling.":no:

[faery]

hmmm...well this hairy-legged hippy missed the show. was breastfeeding my little one to sleep in the family bed while it was on. can't say i'm sorry i missed it, probably would have had me throwing stuff at my TV (and i really like my TV).

for those of you wondering about ap/gentle discipline read "parenting for a peaceful world" by Robin Grille. will blow your mind, spin you out and will have an interesting read about western parenting styles.

i love being AP. and it was something i thought of before i had ds. i KNEW i wasn't going to cc or ff or use disposables etc etc. AP fit what i already instinctually knew about how to raise my son. and thank goddess that it has a label and i can find a book (or ten) with ideas on how to deal with issues otherwise the only advice you get is cc and "don't spoil them".

ap raised kidlings also cry lots, teeth badly, don't like having naps, get cranky for no apparent reason. the difference (FOR ME) is in how i deal with it. going with their cues and needs rather than my own.

[Mummabear]

Well I thought this segment was a hoot. BF a 5 year old in a developed country is just ridiculous and even the 5 year old said that she only wanted it because she saw her sister have it. And how is allowing a child to demand your boob for comfort any different to allowing them to demand a dummy for comfort (which the 5 year old in that story still had I might add). It's still outside comfort. I am all for bf and self weaning but I think many of these extreme AP families take it over the top as a form of making a statement rather than a true belief. And as someone already mentioned I fail to see how a 5 year old crawling on the kitchen table, throwing things at her parents and calling them idiots is a better outcome :confused:.

As for the no nappy approach, I prefer a more hygenic environment to raise my kids in. Walking through wee and poo constantly isn't my idea of good parenting :barf:

DH and I discussed this segment once it finished and I said that I'm all for most parts of the AP principle but with my own decisions thrown in that suit my child as he's an individual and doesn't fall into any category or stereotype.

[text removed by moderator]

[PhAnToM]

LMFAO !!!!!!
BG - Hun just because you use a dummy doesnt mean you cant be AP that woman who said things like that & rockers etc arent used by AP'ers was talking out her ummmm yeah well :p


Yes, I was a little confused actually.
They claimed they bf to replace the need for "replacements for security and comfort provided by the mother/breast" (well, i'm paraphrasing.. but that's what they were saying!)...
YET... the english couple had a 5 year old who was bf AND had a huge dummy in her mouth. :confused:
The other thing was the lady with the 3 yo son... well, she said he weaned himself because he was emotionally secure and didn't need comforting, but then it showed her offering him a stuffed horse to cuddle. :confused:
I suppose this is what people mean about AP is not a "all or nothing" parenting, because if it were, tonights families sent mixed signals to me.

I am not an AP'er. I think I'm in Veve's league as far as AP and preferred way of raising my children... it's not for me. I'm also certain that the extremes were shown tonight, as is the general census here.

[Shanaynay]

I don't think I, or anyone else should make a single judgement based on the 60 mins show. Now, I'm not an AP'er, but I'm sure that some of these famillies (ok, the UK family) are not really representative of AP'ers. 5 year olds with dummies aren't really representative or ANYONE!

As for the poo/wee, to me that looked like an accident caught on camera. I know when I was TT my daughter, seh would have frequent accidents on the floor, and if I didn't get there first, well, yeah, she might have stepped in it. *shock horror*

Anyway, I think most of us should realise that this was a case of both extremism and bad editing, I don't think the show accurately portrayed AP.

And for the record, I do think AP sounds wonderful :)

[Pippi Longstocking]

Sassymummy, I was going to go through your post and quote all the parts I agree with but then I'd just end up with your entire post here - well said! :yelclap: .
To those of you who still think AP families are raising feral out of control argumentative disobedient little brats that roam around cr@pping on the floor with mum chasing them with her t!ts out, I really wish you'd listen to those of us that actually practice the AP style of parenting rather than a biased, extreme ratings-grabbing episode of 60 minutes!

In my house, my children have rules. They have boundaries. I don't think the rules and boundaries make me any less "AP". It's the way these rules are enforced that make the difference. I don't use violence and intimidation. I use calm and gentle communication. Usually it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Guess what?! There are consequences if my children dn't do what they are told. My 8yo in particular has been havign a few problems of late due to some emotional stuff he is going through right now. When he is misbehaving, I don't scream at him and slap him upside the head like the small angry mama isnde of me is tempted to do :o . We talk about his feelings. We name the anger. We work out ways he can appropriately express that anger. We punch pillows. We whack things with an inflatable bat. Andwhen that doesn't work and he forgets, he is reminded with logical consequences. He is currently banned from the ps2 for two weeks because he let his anger control his actions rather than his actions controlling his anger. (The ps2 contributes to his feelings of frustration and anger, hence the logical part).
My point is that my children are in no way undisciplined. Most people that meet them comment on their manners. My children are well-socialised. That "doctor" was sooo wrong when he stated that these kids will have social adjustment issues. My children have the confidence and self esteem to handle social situations far better than they would have if they were parented in an intimidating fashion.

[Nickster]

I didn't watch it. I didn't have to after seeing the ads for it - I knew it would be a lot of sensationalist rubbish and creative editing used for maximum shock effect and minimal educational value. I knew it would frustrate me. And reading everyone's posts has just confirmed that.

I watched Idol instead.:rolleyes: :laughing: So much more educational....

I hate labels - I think everyone really just does what's best for their children with the knowledge they have, whether it be co-sleeping, breastfeeding, etc...none of us (at bubhub anyway) would intentionally leave a baby in distress...I'm sure....it's all about finding a balance in your life so everybody is happy....baby and mum.

[bubbles28]

Erm, no part of 'Attachment Parenting' or Gentle Discipline involved letting your child have their own way all the time.... sounds to me like your parents (with all good intentions) practiced 'no discipline' rather than gentle discipline.

Accually 'NO", it was the 'gental' approach.

[Goosie22]

I didnt like it, it was exactly what I thought it would be like. In my opinion it wont impact on people living connected to their childrens need (most of us dont watch TV too much) and I also think that from my time on bubhub that most mothers are able to see through the **** journalism like Tara burns (do some research on something will you) and see the good points. I found the english couple really interesting, I have old friends whos kids are now 24, 21 who parented like that almost exactly and their two sons are now engineres and scientists.

"All you need is love":hugs:

[stellarella]

I wouldnt normally watch 60 mins, what a ridiculous prgramme. But i could not resist checking it out as when i had seen ads i could already predict what the story would be like.

It was presented in exactly the way ignorant people would view attachment parenting, designed only to ridicule AP parents and make it into a farce.

They chose the most extreme examples of AP, cleverly edited, and presented by an interviewer who was obviously far from appreciative of the benefits of attachment parenting.

having said that i found nothing offensive about the parenting styles presented (apart from the poo on the floor, but IMO thats just bad tatse on behalf of channel 9??)

i did find the "medical professionals" opinion laughable as if he had done any research he would have known that AP has proven to produce well-adjusted, caring children, im not going into it here with DS perched on my lap its a bit hard to type, but perhaps we should learn about child psychology before we criticise this parenting style.

i for one was breastfed well over 2 years and self weaned, i slept with my parents til i weaned myself of that also, and i was never hit or disciplined with negative comments, and that was in the 80's OMG!!!

i thought the husband was hilarious for his toungue in cheek declaration of the milk in the eye thing, good on him for having a laugh at the interviewers expense.

all the parents presented were very aware of how they are percieved by others, good on them for sticking it everyones faces (pardon the pun).

i will continue to sleep with my bub, and any that follow, until they decide to move out on thier own (hubby will not be demoted to anothger room however), i will continue to use my breast as a source of nourishment, a comforter and a warm place for my children to turn too for as long as i and my chilren see fit, i will never use a dummy, i do have a cot (never used mind you), i do have a play mat and a rocker, i carry my baby and yet i have a pram, i do use nappies, i will never hit my children, and i will use gentle discipline....

and i will continue to smile knowingly at my critical peers because i know something about children that they do not....

[Rainbowbrite]

I watched it, i laughed, i threw pillows. I'm AP on many counts, but even my DH said it was portrayed really bad. How can responding to your childs wants/needs be a bad thing? We co-sleep (DH, MJ & myself together), i plan to let MJ self wean, we use gentle discipline (meaning she has boundaries but i wont humiliate, or belittle MJ), had a gentle birth, i sling MJ for as long as she wants then she walks or goes in the stroller, its up to her, we plan on homeschooling. The only non AP thing we do i think is Vax, but thats for personal reasons.

On Ecing, the cues are there & they can be read. We EC for poo's have for almost a year now. If we dont, MJ wont go & will make herself sick. She refuses to go in a nappy.

[~Chick79~]

All I want to say is, don't we have the right as a parent to chose what "parenting technique" we want to use???

While I may not want to BF my kids to whenever, or co sleep I certainly don't think it is wrong if others wish to do that... it is my choice not to.

Some of my friends are still bfding their toddlers and fulltime co-sleep - that is ok, again it is their choice - it is most certainly not my place to tell them how to raise their children.

If everyone was brought up the same we would all be robots wouldn't we....

[ShadyCharacter]

Accually 'NO", it was the 'gental' approach.
Ok, so I am confused then :confused:. Why do you 'struggle with not getting your own way' now, when as a child you did NOT always get your own way? Surely you are used to having boundaries?

[jkate]

If my only exposure to AP was what was shown on 60 minutes, well I would be pretty put off the whole AP idea and would think that all APers were looneys.

However, since I know that most APers are not so extreme - then I can balance up what I saw on 60 minutes with what I have learnt from bubhub.

Truthfully, until I joined bubhub I had never heard of AP.

I could never be an AP parent - I like dummies, I don't want to do extended breastfeeding, I like prams, I don't want my child sleeping in my room ALL the time, I like disposable nappies, I like using the word "NO" when disiplining my child...but despite all this, I think my child will turn out as stable, happy, loving, cultured, movitvated, nurtured and ambitious as a child who was bought up by APers.

:yelclap: I agree. I also didn't know what AP was until bub hub, and I have learnt that there are different aspects to AP, and all parents who do AP have different styles as well. I could never do it, but I don't judge those who do.

I was dissapointed with 60 mins last night, I generally like there reports but they were soooooooo onesided last night, but I suppose that is televison for you.

[shelby67]

Hey everyone,
What a croc of one sided ****. So there are NO benifits to AP???don't think 60 mins have presented a balanced view.
Australian Idol now looking good for sundays 7.30pm.......I wont be watching 60 mins again.
Shelby.

[Leez]

The first thing I thought when I saw that American woman with her 'neglectomatic' comment about the bouncers was 'hmmmm...I wonder how you'd go raising MY DD?".!!! She loves her bouncer, she loves a cuddle too, but after a while, she gets jack of it and lets you know she'd like some space please! She loves to be in the middle of everything/everyone, in her bouncer.

In addition, she rejected boob from the word go, she loves her 'cage' (I put her in every night and stroke her forehead, and she has a gigantic smile on her face, and drifts off to sleep chatting to herself very happily!) - before she was born, like every parent, I had Johnson & Johnson fantasies about having those gorgeous snuggly Sunday mornings in bed with DH and I - but no, DD isn't into it, she likes it for a while, then again she lets us know 'ok people, I'm sick of this, lets get the day underway!!' LOL! She's not much into a dummy but she'll have a go every now and then.

Which leads me to ask the question, with a woman like the one on 60 minutes (regardless of dodgy editing etc. she still made those comments) - being so strongly opinionated about what is good/right/healthy for a child, how much ability does she have to adapt to her child's individual personality? I wonder what would happen to her ideas if by chance she had a baby like mine? I wonder what she would have done if she had a baby that absolutely would NOT accept her boob - despite LC advice/techniques etc? A baby that just didn't want to be attached to her all the time (from when it was very young I mean)??

I know AP is not about doing this or that, but following the child so most APers would simply go with the bouncer/cot etc if thats what bub was indicating thats what they wanted, but that woman definately had attitude that there was only one way to raise a child - dangerous territory if you ask me!!!

Also to all the APers - don't worry, I don't think I've every met a person who thinks 60 minutes is quality journalism - I know how angry it makes you though - as a non-immuniser, I know the drill - every time the issue is on TV its a complete hatchet job. I guess that getting someone who can present a well balanced, researched and logical side to the issue without the freak show element won't make the ratings, and unfortunately that is just the way of the world nowdays.

[jkate]

Just a extra note after my last post...just as I finished posting my mum called (about a unrelated matter - but 60 min interview came up in the conversation) she had no idea on what AP was, so I inform her....so there is one more person out there who know has a more informed on AP

[stellarella]

Hi leez, yes my bub has a rocker and a play gym, and i consider myself an AP. Obviously 60 mins has chosen the most extreme examples of AP (or what they copnsider AP to be to present thier view of how ridiculous it is).

If a mother refuses to tune into her child and know what her child wants, even if it is to have fun with a "neglectomatic" then she is not APing. You are more of an APer than her as you intuitively know what your child wants and what is best for them.:smiliedance:

I think that american mother was just getting her point across that lots of people do just leave thier child in these automatic rockers with music and toys for hours on end. especially in a day care setting where there are lots of babies and not many carers.

perhaps we should look at it like this....if your child is left in a rocker all day then you cannot possibly tune into them and therefore be an AP. as tuning in is the basis for AP. :D

[my_lot]

we watched it. dp and dd9 wide eyed!

dp thought it was great when the dad said he "has to lines up behind the girls for the boob"

i asked dd9 what she thought of the show and she said what a rude girl that girl was for calling the father an idiot.

dd9 has been raised in a house where-



we have co-sleepers as babies, 1 wanted to more than the others so it wasnt a parenting style we choose it was more following the needs of a sickly child. the others were happy jail birds most of the time. felt free to bed hop if they wanted to and still pop in for a cuddle now and then.

used cloth nappies, on the first. and all three in summer. i also used them for TT ( to save the carpet) at no time did i have the time to watch every facial movement of my baby, the third child, so i could position his toosh over a garden when needed.
they all had nappy free time but that wasnt free to wander all over the house nappy free time.

breastfed baby - 2 years for one, 6 months for another and 18 months for another. but 5 !! i dont think dp would like to wait in line that long! :laughing: and id had enough by the time they stopped anyways.


home schooling for kinder/year1 ... then they go to school. (when they were home schooled they were not on a farm in the middle of no-where with no outside contact and mum and dad 24/7.)

we use a dummy if its needed (tube fed prems are given them to learn to suck)
we use a rocker when the older kids want to "play" with the baby. OR i just need free hands.

we use whatever we feel is ok for our family and whatever we feel will work for our kids.

i had NEVER heard of AP before joining bubhub a few months ago. and even then it isnt something i have "looked into" BUT even i knew they were showing the extreme side of it on 60min.

i will jsut carry on with my "whatever works for us" style.
after hearing dd9s view on 60min i think weve done well so far!

[HappyMumsy]

Why do people feel the need to judge AP so much? if they don't like it then I'd suggest they don't do it.

[jessgray]

we watched it last night after seeing the ads while watching telly while i was in early labor lol
DP couldnt understand the extended breast feeding and no nappies part of the story. having said that we are now teaching ds1 to sleep on hos own after co-sleeping with us. i am bf-ing ds2,ds1 was FF. so we could understand where the parents were coming from we just thought they were abit extreme lol.

we have a pram and a "neglect-o-matic"bouncer lol ds1 loved the bouncer and i would love to see that american lady call us lazy for having a "cage" and pram after looking after ds1 for a day lol. i just got my 1st sling:D

[MordecaiAliVanAllenO'Shea]

okay...deep breath - where to start? My hubby is Indian, so a lot of our "AP" practices come from raising our son in a way that is common in DH's culture. And believe me, kids in India, despite co-sleeping, being carried (no prams there), no nappies (and no not because they live in poverty but because they think it's gross for babies to wear their own waste - people are trying to market nappies to India but are finding it very hard to find a market for them) are well behaved in a culture where respect for elders is very important (of course their are exceptions, in any culture or society there are going to be undisciplined, bratty kids!). My DH is worried for me now as when I go out with DS in his sling, I will immediately be associated with the extreme parenting shown by the UK couple. I fear that all this show will achieve is to make parents who use any form of AP parenting become "closet APers" to avoid ridicule and misunderstanding, making it seem less normal and not giving people in society a chance to see that there are normal alternatives to the mainstream. For example, while I think there is nothing wrong with some people wanting to use a pram all the time, there might be a mum who think "gee, I'd really rather carry my DC, but that's not the done thing, people will think I'm wierd, so I better put them in the pram."

On the EC topic (babies being nappy-free) if you talk to most people who do this you will find thayt it is very rare for babies to have a poo accident. My DS does every one of his in the toilet or nappy(when out or sleeping we use nappies) but when nappy free signals very clearly and I have plenty of time to get him to the toilet/potty. He is 6mnths and yes is developing control of these functions. When I give him a chance to go on the potty or whatever he will actually sometimes strain to get even a few drops out as he kinows this is what he is supposed to do on the potty - how would he do this if he had no control at all over these functions. Oh yes, my sister is toilet training her 3yr odl and has had plenty of wee on the carpet and yes poo on the floor. In real life (not on line) no one knows we are doing this as we know all we would get is criticism - oh, and that bub doing 30 wees in a day was heaps, my DS (6.5mnths) did eight yesterday and had 2 wet sleep nappies.

Basically, we are all doing what we think is best for our bubs and our families, and the show last night just made me feel really sad as it was encouraging people to be ignorant and afraid of anything new or that they don't understand and just to criticise what they don't understand.

Lastly - we use a cot, but if bub wakes in the night he comes in with use, I intend to BF the recommended 2yrs unless of course buib self weans earlier, I own a pram but mostly choose to use the sling as DS and I are happier with this, I cloth nappy for sleeps or when out or like today when DS and I are a little under-the-weather, we did use a dummy ona -and-off but now he doesn't want it, we use the rocker when I need a shower or am trying to get dinner ready and yes my son will have boundaries and hear the word no and he will go to school - I feel it's important for him to mix with a range of children from different backgrounds (although I am aware that a lot of homeschoolers meet up regularly with other homeschooler so their kids can mix with others).

phewwww...sorry for the long post, Iguess I had a lot to say,
Mel

[Little Gorilla]

wow its been interesting reading every ones take on 60 minutes and also what they consider to be "AP" ..... truthfully I am now totally confused as to what really is AP.... its seems its different for everybody. :confused:

I think it was easier bringing up kids when there wasn't "names" and "titles" for the way we were doing it.

[our little treasures]

I don't care what one thinks, I parent the way I want to! I often get compliments on my lil girls behaviour. Infact I know she is better behaved than most her age, again this comes down to her personality!!

The reason this child called her dad an idiot would have been to show off, what 5 yr old little attention seeker wouldn't have with all the camera men and people in the house!! I know they don't like that behaviour because we heard the father say 1... 2.... this is where they should have asked how do you deal with it, I am sure it would have been something actually reccomended by "THE NANNY" or "DR PHIL" etc!!

[SilverStarfish]

The high grand pooh-bahs of Ch 9 must be rubbing their hands with glee this morning at all the free publicity their stupid story has received. My sister has the radio on at work (BP Carindale - say hi if you fill up there and get served by a blonde girl called Nic :wave: ) and she says that its been all over the airwaves this morning too.

[Milliner]

Everyone does what they think is best for there child!

I BF and top up with formula (ds is too skinny peads advice)
We use nappies
We use a cot but if DS wakes in the middle of the night he comes in with me
We might use a dummy once in a blue moon
We have a rocker/swing for when I am trying to get things done.
We have a pram and a sling we use both
I am a SAHM and will not be going back to work until DS is in school (by then I will have more kids so who knows when I will go back)

I don't think that I could BF till he is 5 for me thats a bit much. My MIL tells me I have to stop now, but who listens to her. LOL

[Malin]

Typical of the media, most of the time the are such "FAULT FINDERS"
Why does negativity sell so good!

I didn't see the show but read all about here on the message board.
According the experts NO STYLE OF PARENTING IS NEVER GOOD ENOUGH, And I get so angry how some other people, media , doctors have to make us parents feeling guilty about our parenting.
After all most of us loved our children so much it hurts, we would do anything for them.

I feel that I'm an AP/ instinct parent, but I'm not an extreamist either.

I long for that day the media is here to be a possitive messanger, I would love to see a news program that would have positive news about how helpful and wonderful humanbeings really are!

Love to you all! Malin

[shed]

I saw it, I thought it was BORING. There was nothing in it that shocked me and found it ironic that they had to go all the way to England to find such an extreme version of AP.

This suggests that most people take what they what from the philosophy and do what suits their situation so there's not much shock value closer to home.

I happen to agree that rockers are "mummy substitutes". I have one of these for my baby and I do use it as that because sometimes I need to go to the loo or something.

I would rather that my baby be offered a subsitute than nothing at all if they are the only two options.

I thought the american lady was just TRYING to shock people. That's just what I thought. It made me laugh. If that floats your boat lady, then do what ya gotta do.

The english couple were in full agreement on what they were doing so I don't really understand the shock value there either. They were quite comfortable with what they were doing and don't seem to give a sh*t what people think. I think that's what its all about - being confident in your decisions. There's nothing to defend then.

The ausssie lady, JanetF, she was set up to look bad, the poor thing. Very unfair. Even I thought her kid was a brat, he looked very frustrated and she came across as being a bit unreliable, cooing at him when he just wanted a bit of direction. But as I said, she was set up. Being gentle and being ineffective aren't the same thing. AP is about being effective and tuning into your child. But anyway, as I said, I don't think she was represented fairly.

All in all, pretty lame, I didn't learn anything. I have learnt more from this thread...as usual.

[lovesherboys]

In my house my husband and I talk about how to parent our 2 DS's. They both sleep in cages happily and have never co-slept as my husband would probably roll over onto them. But,I just have one question regarding co-sleeping. How does dad or partner feel about it if they end up sleeping in another bed? I mean I know the reporter asked about making babies but what about the other stuff. The real intimancy such as cuddles and late night conversations and just lying together just the two of you.
I would hate to think in a fews years time my how partner might feel if he has had to sleep elsewhere because of me cop-sleeping with the DS's.To me one of the best things you can give your kids is the comfort in knowing mummy and daddy love each other very much and they have special time together.
I am not saying that I am against it but I would like to hear from the Dads that do sleep elsewhere due to this arrangement and how they feel about any loss of intimacy with their partner.
Are there any Dads out there?
Let me hear your thoughts.

[the_queen]

I'm a mum, but I can answer as to the general question. Co-sleeping, just like cot-sleeping, has rules in regards to lowering the risk of SIDS. One of the rules is, don't put baby in the middle, put the bed in such a position that baby is between mum and a wall/barrier/side rail etc. I do a side-car set up, which is one side completely taken off the cot, and pushed up against my side of the bed, and then I have some foam under the cot mattress to make his and my mattress on the same level. Then husband and I were basically in our own bed, and bubby was in his. At times he would sleep right next to me, in the early days he generally slept on my chest. And the husband and I did have cuddles etc (we're now separated, long story, nothing to do with AP, in fact AP was about the only thing we agreed on LOL).

[Tannie]

I find it interesting that so many of you get "negative" vibes when out using a sling these days? I have lived in 2 different places whilst having small baby's & used the sling with only MANY positive and "oh - where did you get that? It looks great!" comments. I've often had to stop and give people website addresses etc!

I've never noticed anyone looking or commenting at someone using a sling negatively up here (Townsville Nth Qld) and I see lots of women using them, they are very common........to me using a sling these days is just "part of the furniture"...no biggee - this is a pretty big "baby" town and if slings represented strict AP parents........then Townsville must be the Australian hub of Attached Parenting :yelclap:

What I find frustrating about all these discussion on "ap" and within the AP / natural parenting websites is the sort of "superiority" theme, which I feel infers that APers are doing something hugely DIFFERENT from other parents........and reading through THIS thread just proves that 2 parents can do what sounds like exactly the SAME parenting - yet one says "i'm an AP" and the other says "I'm not an AP"!! Then if / when you try to discuss what exactly it IS that the AP parent is doing differently - on one hand they make a list of "things" they do or don't do.........then in teh next breath say "it's NOT a list of things that you do - it's a philosophy!!"..........so what is it? It's very confusing Is what it is!!

If it IS a philosophy and not "things"........then I should be able to say I'm an AP....yet - I have been accused by APers of being everything under the sun, called vicious names by them and I think that if I signed up to one of their websites, they'd probably hunt me down and destroy my computer :laughing:

So excuse me if I'm a bit "negative" about AP - but the women that I have encountered who practice it, apart from a few more balanced ones around the ridges (mostly on here - bubhub actually) - have - in the main - been TO ME - nasty, aggressive, certainly NOT gentle and very judgemental of other parents who don't practice their "superior" or "better" style of parenting. Better for them perhaps and if they like it - lovely?! But it doesn't mean it's the ONLY way to bring up happy, well balanced kids...........as stated before - many parents do all or many of the "ap" things anyway!!

This is NOT a reflection on BUBHUB at all - just my experiences from several websites and personal experience.

As I saw it - no one was holding a gun to these peoples heads to make them be on 60 minutes!! The words and situations where there to see in colour and sound..........I dont' think it was misrepresented at all - it was jsut that the story focussed on the more extreme devotees..........and there ARE plenty of them in Australia - so I dont know why they went o/s to find people......that's about the only thing I really had an issue with.

T

[Wish_Bear]

Im sorry but I didnt think the 60mins report was one sided at all, I thought it gave ample opportunity for the AP's to tell their side of things and the interviewer was really only asking questions people who dont know much about co-sleeping/extended b/f etc would have wanted to know but might be afraid to ask. I thought they gave both sides of the story, whether you agree with it or not.
Personally I thought the woman b/f her 5yr old kids looked like a milk cow getting her boobs out all the time and squeezing it into your husbands eye well thats just wrong!! I love my son and we are guiding him to be a well behaved, life loving, sociable little boy, he does however sleep in a cot, has a dummy to go to sleep, was b/f until 9mths old, goes out in his pram and doesnt pooh on the floor and I would say he is better behaved than any of those kids in that show. I would love to see how those kids are when they are 15yrs old.


I have to agree.

[meme]

I have been accused by APers of being everything under the sun, called vicious names by them
:eek: sounds like you have had some nasty run ins with some nasty mums
i too have heard one story about a mum that turned up at an ap playgroup with a pram only to be denigrated for not slinging, so i guess there are some hardcore APers who do have 'rules'.

for me i just parent instinctively, and take what i like and what i think witll work for me and my family from every parenting 'philosophy'. i am not very comfy with labels, but when i first heard of ap i realised it sort of described a lot of the things i believed anbout parenting and many of the instinctive parenting practices i used.

if someone was strict about AP i prolly would be excluded though because as previously mentioned i love the pram etc....i do think there are many mums out there using a similar approach to me, who may not be strictly APing by the 'rules' who still identify with the principles of instinctual parenting that AP is used as a label for.

not sure if that clears it up anymore...:p

[Billy]

for me i just parent instinctively, and take what i like and what i think witll work for me and my family from every parenting 'philosophy'. i am not very comfy with labels, but when i first heard of ap i realised it sort of described a lot of the things i believed anbout parenting and many of the instinctive parenting practices i used.

if someone was strict about AP i prolly would be excluded though because as previously mentioned i love the pram etc....i do think there are many mums out there using a similar approach to me, who may not be strictly APing by the 'rules' who still identify with the principles of instinctual parenting that AP is used as a label for.


Yes I agree with this!! :yes: :thumbsup: This is very much how I think/feel as well :)

[stellarella]

:eek: sounds like you have had some nasty run ins with some nasty mums
i too have heard one story about a mum that turned up at an ap playgroup with a pram only to be denigrated for not slinging, so i guess there are some hardcore APers who do have 'rules'.

for me i just parent instinctively, and take what i like and what i think witll work for me and my family from every parenting 'philosophy'. i am not very comfy with labels, but when i first heard of ap i realised it sort of described a lot of the things i believed anbout parenting and many of the instinctive parenting practices i used.

if someone was strict about AP i prolly would be excluded though because as previously mentioned i love the pram etc....i do think there are many mums out there using a similar approach to me, who may not be strictly APing by the 'rules' who still identify with the principles of instinctual parenting that AP is used as a label for.

not sure if that clears it up anymore...:p

Its a tricky one isnt it. I would like to think its purely an instinctive thing too, but then again, there have to be some basic concepts that unify AP's otherwise we may as well say everyone is APing and then may as well not have the term at all....:eek:

I for one find it rather confusing, but I guess the best way of looking at is that baby wearing, co-sleeping, breastfeeding etc facilitates optimal bonding between parent and child, therefore allowing the parent to truly tune into thier child blocking out all the white noise of societal pressures, commercialist ideas of parenting (lets face it, we dont really need 90% of the **** we are sucked into buying for bub, its just a money spinner).

Maybe its about getting back to basics of what a child really needs which is just love and attention and to be close to thier mothers. In fact I have read a very interesting article, cant think where it was from now but talked about how humans are a member of a certain mammalian family which carries thier babies close to thier bodies and breastfeeds on demand, it also said that because our babies are born at such a young age gestationally compared to other animals that we are designed to continue nurturing them intimately as though in the womb after they are born. this is just one idea anyway.

also i dont think you can spoil a child with love and affection and caring, only with material possessions, JMA.

[Goosie22]

Personally I thought the woman b/f her 5yr old kids looked like a milk cow getting her boobs out all the time and squeezing it into your husbands eye well thats just wrong!!


Breastmilk contains living cells which actually fight infections, If you look in the celebrating Breastfeeding section you will see a few mothers who frequent this site who do actually squirt Breastmilk into their husbands/childrens eyes, there is nothing wrong with it. And I would like to add I loved Janets reply"you cant force a child to breastfeed" I know because I have tried it and it doesnt work.

Personally I would rather see people breastfeeding their children any age and any old how instead of seeing people walking around public places with rubber teats exposed (ever heard of airborne disease people?? influenza is one!) and bottles full of sugary liquids of all discription:thumbsdown: .

[shed]

IF you study physiology and the way the nerves of the body are gradually myelonated to develop them into controllable, usable nerve cells - this is done from head down, hence we get control of brain, eyes...gradually "down" our body.......the nerve cells around the bladder and pelvic floor are very low in the body and that's simply why conscious control of them can't occur until myelonation (which is the growth of a coating called myelon around nerves which matures them into completely usable nerves..) is completed............this doesn't happen in the lower part of the body until around 18 months ++ - basically one can "see" it occuring through fine and gross motor development i.e walking, manuveuring pencils, spoons.............and so on.


Thanks for this. I found it really interesting and I am going to go and look into it further. :thumbsup:

We are a loooooong way from toilet training yet, my baby is only 12 weeks old, but its good to have the information before you need it. I love this kind of information, it makes things so much easier if you know the actual "process".

[stellarella]

Breastmilk contains living cells which actually fight infections, If you look in the celebrating Breastfeeding section you will see a few mothers who frequent this site who do actually squirt Breastmilk into their husbands/childrens eyes, there is nothing wrong with it. And I would like to add I loved Janets reply"you cant force a child to breastfeed" I know because I have tried it and it doesnt work.

Personally I would rather see people breastfeeding their children any age and any old how instead of seeing people walking around public places with rubber teats exposed (ever heard of airborne disease people?? influenza is one!) and bottles full of sugary liquids of all discription:thumbsdown: .

:yelclap: :yelclap:
I agree goosie, i use my milk for everything. infected cord stump, gooey eye, cuts, whatever.

Just on topic again though....

dont forget this particular family would probably not be seen often in public if it werent for this story going into thier home they would just be feeding in private, especially seeing as they home school. so rather than go on about how gross it is i think we should appreciate that they allowed us to see a snapshot of thier lives and i found it rather interesting and enlightening.

perhaps it would be good if extended breastfeeding was a more public event then peoiple wouldnt be so disgusted by something so natural and not to mention excellent healthwise for babies and children

[Yasmeena]

Breastmilk contains living cells which actually fight infections, If you look in the celebrating Breastfeeding section you will see a few mothers who frequent this site who do actually squirt Breastmilk into their husbands/childrens eyes, there is nothing wrong with it. And I would like to add I loved Janets reply"you cant force a child to breastfeed" I know because I have tried it and it doesnt work.

Personally I would rather see people breastfeeding their children any age and any old how instead of seeing people walking around public places with rubber teats exposed (ever heard of airborne disease people?? influenza is one!) and bottles full of sugary liquids of all discription:thumbsdown: .

Hooray for boobies:smiliedance:

[annb]

Id just like to say I didnt say b/f was wrong, I totally think b/f is the way to go, I stopped b/f at 9mths coz it wasnt working for me, would happily b/f my child until 1 or 2 yrs of age if need be. My son only wants 1 bottle of milk a day and its not subject to airborne diseases!
Sorry for anyone who found my post offensive, but I still think its wrong squeezing milk into your husbands eye :)

[Goosie22]

but I still think its wrong squeezing milk into your husbands eye :)

Its not wrong, and lots of people do it me included. It has a scientific basis, its been proven to work, its free easily accesable and it doesnt leave any chemicals behind for your body to get rid of.

Its good for cuts and abrasions, staph infections, mozzie bites the uses are endless.

Viva La @Y@ juice:smiliedance: :D

[veve]

afternoon hubbers

just a reminder to keep this thread on topic - it has been an interesting and informative discussion ... PLEASE note .. this thread is not discussing formula/ bottle feeding vs breastfeeding ..

please get back on topic - which is attached parenting and the way it was portrayed on television..

any off topic posts - especially ones that a seen as arguementative will be removed..

thanks
Jen

[ShadyCharacter]

So Stellarella .....since I don't breast feed I fall into your catergory of giving my child a "concotion of rubbish" :rolleyes:

Get off your high horses ladies.

Good on you for only giving your child milk or water in a bottle. But how many times have you seen people giving juice, or even worse, soft drink, to their children in bottles. I think that is what Goosie was referring to.

Funny that giving a 2 or 3 year old soft drink is the norm, but giving a 5 year old breastmilk is revolting :confused:

[SamanthaJane]

I think it swings both ways....

People have said they are offended by the comments put across to the parents on that show... well i was offended by what those parents were saying aswell...

Saying a cot is just like a cage, saying a bouncer is a "neglectomatic", saying a pram is for a "lazy parent" and that good parents carry there babies everywhere .... Yep, i'm offended by that... I have ALL of those things ready for my baby and to say that i'm not a good parent because i have these things IS insulting to me.

[Little Gorilla]

Good on you for only giving your child milk or water in a bottle. But how many times have you seen people giving juice, or even worse, soft drink, to their children in bottles. I think that is what Goosie was referring to.

Funny that giving a 2 or 3 year old soft drink is the norm, but giving a 5 year old breastmilk is revolting :confused:

That's why people shouldn't generalise on here...anyway, back to the AP debate - I've had enough - and just for the record, I haven't made any comment about the the mother breast feeding her 5 year old.

[stellarella]

Its not wrong, and lots of people do it me included. It has a scientific basis, its been proven to work, its free easily accesable and it doesnt leave any chemicals behind for your body to get rid of.

Its good for cuts and abrasions, staph infections, mozzie bites the uses are endless.

Viva La @Y@ juice:smiliedance: :D

My midwife and GP suggested I use breastmilk on any little infection or cut, scratch, rash etc. as goosie says, its not wierd...its clever

[Mamaduke]

attached parenting and the way it was portrayed on television..


I've just watched it and after seeing the 3 year old Australian boy in the segment the thing that struck me was that this free thinking child never uttered one word - happy, sad, content, frustrated etc.
Whatever the feeling was at the time...he squealed...constantly.
Call it clever editing, catching the child on a bad day or whatever...but at the age of 3 a child should be able to express themselves with some words.

[ShadyCharacter]

I'll call it clever editing. Apparently the cameras followed them on a lovely walk home from the park that was completely omitted from the show :rolleyes:

[Milly]

Actually. I as a bit afraid to come here as I did not know if I would be welcome given that I did CC with my DD:o . BUT, I only did it for two nights and she controlled whinged really and it worked for us all. If we did it more than those two sessions and if she screamed her lungs out and the like, we would never have continued..but anyway... I have never CC my boy because he cries blue murder when I leave the room and generally, with that once off with my DD, I am a bit of a sling wearing, breastfeed on demand sort of girl...okay, having said that now (and justifying myself:rolleyes: LOL)...

I am a bit like meme in that:

Originally Posted by meme
for me i just parent instinctively, and take what i like and what i think witll work for me and my family from every parenting 'philosophy'. i am not very comfy with labels, but when i first heard of ap i realised it sort of described a lot of the things i believed anbout parenting and many of the instinctive parenting practices i used.

if someone was strict about AP i prolly would be excluded though because as previously mentioned i love the pram etc....i do think there are many mums out there using a similar approach to me, who may not be strictly APing by the 'rules' who still identify with the principles of instinctual parenting that AP is used as a label for.

not sure if that clears it up anymore...

Which is me . I take what suits us at the time and what suits the child at teh time and situation. I am gravitating more twoards an AP style of things as I go and I have changed a lot since I first started parenting. I guess that is from just finding things that work for us and not categorising myself into any area, but I like some of the AP principles and so much of it makes sense to me.

And StellaRella's response:


....I for one find it rather confusing, but I guess the best way of looking at is that baby wearing, co-sleeping, breastfeeding etc facilitates optimal bonding between parent and child, therefore allowing the parent to truly tune into thier child blocking out all the white noise of societal pressures, commercialist ideas of parenting (lets face it, we dont really need 90% of the **** we are sucked into buying for bub, its just a money spinner).

Maybe its about getting back to basics of what a child really needs which is just love and attention and to be close to thier mothers. In fact I have read a very interesting article, cant think where it was from now but talked about how humans are a member of a certain mammalian family which carries thier babies close to thier bodies and breastfeeds on demand, it also said that because our babies are born at such a young age gestationally compared to other animals that we are designed to continue nurturing them intimately as though in the womb after they are born. this is just one idea anyway.

also i dont think you can spoil a child with love and affection and caring, only with material possessions, JMA.


Absolutely! :)

Also, in regards to comments about breastmilk, I too have used my breastmilk for my kids cuts and grazes too. It is brilliant stuff and I am amazed that the reporter inferred that it was a bizarre concept . But at first my DH thought I was strange about using it as a 'fix it all', but when he saw how it worked, he no longer saw it as funny, but clever and when I explained why it worked, he was really even more impressed. Gosh, breastmilk is a first aid kid as well as a food. Love it!

Anyway, a bit of a disjointed sort of response. But I thought the "60 Minutes" story was a crock and sensationalist. Just aimed at getting some ratings, that's all.

For me, I am a go with the flow sort of mama:D

[Chickadee]

Call it clever editing, catching the child on a bad day or whatever...but at the age of 3 a child should be able to express themselves with some words.
I would say there was definitely some selective editting going on. I agree that most 3 year olds should be able to express themselves, but I also know that my nearly 3 year old goes very shy and seems to lose her words in the presence of strangers sometimes. I can only guess what she'd be like if her house was invaded by several strangers and cameras too.

[Goosie22]

Marmaduke,
I thought he was barely 2 1/2 actually:wave: he is younger than my child who is not yet 3 (3 months off) . Children develop at their own rates and some may be more advanced in fine motor skills and lagging in verbal or physical.


Are you intending to point this out for a reason?[text removed by moderator]

[our little treasures]

I've just watched it and after seeing the 3 year old Australian boy in the segment the thing that struck me was that this free thinking child never uttered one word - happy, sad, content, frustrated etc.
Whatever the feeling was at the time...he squealed...constantly.
Call it clever editing, catching the child on a bad day or whatever...but at the age of 3 a child should be able to express themselves with some words.

OMG Now we are attacking a 3year old!!! :shame:

I know a boy who is now 4 that had problems with speaking clearly and vocalising his feelings..... He was FF, CC, and all the opposites to AP I would never say that is because he had a bottle or was CC....

Even I would find it difficult to come up with words to use if there was a camera in my face!! What 3 yr old wouldn't carry on!!:mad:

[Mamaduke]

Are you intending to point this out for a reason? [text removed by moderator]

[text removed by moderator]
The statement was to discuss how the segment was portrayed...that's how it was portrayed.
As for attacking the child - I made an observation not an attack, the child didn't ask to be on the segment or to have cameras following him around and I agree that this could have caused distress, but then...who put him in that situation...wasn't me.

[Mummabear]

Actually I thought it very hypocritical that the "2.5" year old (or however darn old he is - who cares anyway) was supposedly so well adjusted yet was still offered a stuffed animal as an artifical form of soothing. I realise that all children have bad days and that selective editing plays a big part in segments like these but at the end of the day they can only record what is going on can't they - all I saw was a spoilt brat out of control with no boundaries and no respect for his mother. I fail to see how that is better parenting :confused:

[our little treasures]

OH MILLY, your welcome to post where you want when you want, hun,..

You see this post is/was about the TV show not who is better and what parenting style is best!!!

I tryed CC with my DD after going to the sleep centre at 3mnths.. I was hysterical, I wasn't incontrol, I hated it. It just didn't work for us, I found out later that you should never cc a child under 6mnths, advise given by GP who CC his own kids.. He was mortified!!

Milly you sound like a wonderful mummy!!

[meme]

Its a tricky one isnt it. I would like to think its purely an instinctive thing too, but then again, there have to be some basic concepts that unify AP's otherwise we may as well say everyone is APing and then may as well not have the term at all....
basic concepts are not a list of do/do nots.
while it's nice to have names for what we do, sometimes i think that labelling just segregates parents from each other, ignoring our similarities in favour of our differences.
(but sign me up in the breastmilk squirting devision...:P)

[MordecaiAliVanAllenO'Shea]

If we look at the children as a way to prove/disprove whether ap parenting has good outcomes I found it really interesting that the Australian bub in the sling (JanetF's) was so calm and content - not one shot of the bub crying - and I'm sure they would have shown it if they had one!!

But seriously, I think in any parenting style you will find a wide range of outcomes for kids. This thread is proof of that - some people here mention being raised ap and having issues because of it, while others who were raised ap have nothing but positives to express.

In terms of the whole label thing - we (Dh & I) don't label ourselves ap and follow a set of rules, it's just that ap philosophies and methods of parenting seem to come closest to what we are naturally doing, and it can be helpful to identify other like-minded people who you can safely discuss things like co-sleeping with without fear of criticism. I think the reason a number of people have listed things they do and don't do is to demonstrate that even under the "ap" umbrella there can be a lot of variety.

I would never criticise someone for parenting differently to me (unless of course it was actually abusive or neglectful). My sister is quite different to me and I think she is a fantastic mother.

Mel

Oh, just wanted to add, breatsmilk clears up DS's stuffy nose with one squirt - much more effective than the saline stuff I've found!

[Missus S]

Of course 60 minutes had to show the extreme AP'ers................otherwise there is no real story IYKWIM.

That question asked by Tara about how she still manages to conceive babies if they co-sleep with their children was just idiotic. But really..................what do we expect from a TV station that's now run by Eddy Maguire :rolleyes:

[MamaSage]

Actually I thought it very hypocritical that the "2.5" year old (or however darn old he is - who cares anyway) was supposedly so well adjusted yet was still offered a stuffed animal as an artifical form of soothing. I realise that all children have bad days and that selective editing plays a big part in segments like these but at the end of the day they can only record what is going on can't they - all I saw was a spoilt brat out of control with no boundaries and no respect for his mother. I fail to see how that is better parenting :confused:


I have to add to this. The little boy had a long day, with people he did not know in HIS house with cameras in his face and his mum being asked all sorts of innane questions by a woman who clearly thought little of them. Wouldn't you be cracking a paddy too? They were filmed over an entire day, not just an hour or so, and as 60 minutes clearly had no support for attachment parenting, of course they would not show any footage that showed ap in a good light would they? I thought the baby was very 'good' though. Slept beautifully through the whole thing.
So yes, while they can only record what was going on, they also can edit the bejesus out of things to portray things in a light that they choose to.

[SamanthaJane]

Not really that important, but for those arguing over how old the child was, he was 3, they said that in the interview...

[Goosie22]

Not really that important, but for those arguing over how old the child was, he was 3, they said that in the interview...

He is 2 1/2 Samantha I know him personally:thumbsup:

[SamanthaJane]

He is 2 1/2 Samantha I know him personally:thumbsup:


TARA BROWN: In Australia too, attachment parenting has many supporters. Sydney mum Janet Fraser runs the Home Birth Network and practises the techniques on three-year-old Connor and three-month-old Isabelle.

Well, like i said it doesn't really make a difference, but 60 Minutes shouldn't have said 3 then, should they.

[Mamaduke]

I have to add to this. The little boy had a long day, with people he did not know in HIS house with cameras in his face and his mum being asked all sorts of innane questions by a woman who clearly thought little of them.
Well it begs the question...why were they allowed through the front door in the first place?

[Chickadee]

There has already been one warning in this thread. It is now dangerously close to being closed. There have been multiple reported posts which we will deal with in due time.

I would not like to close this thread, but quite frankly us moderators are all volunteers and we have limited patience for sorting out arguments and figuring out who insulted who first.

Be nice. Don't take general comments and opinions personally. Don't provoke arguments.

[Milly]

OH MILLY, your welcome to post where you want when you want, hun,..

You see this post is/was about the TV show not who is better and what parenting style is best!!!

I tryed CC with my DD after going to the sleep centre at 3mnths.. I was hysterical, I wasn't incontrol, I hated it. It just didn't work for us, I found out later that you should never cc a child under 6mnths, advise given by GP who CC his own kids.. He was mortified!!

Milly you sound like a wonderful mummy!!

Thank you angelbaby8 :) That is lovely!

Oh yes, I know about this thread's purpose too, but I guess I also thought it was a good entry point to start in the AP/NP part of the Bubhub forum too :)

I love a good discussion like this and this thread has been very intersting to read all different points of view on Ap and even 60 Mintues and its editing and juxtapositioning of things to create the story about it that it did.

My media background makes me so cynical about these shows.

[Mamaduke]

Sour grapes perhaps?

Oh...Now I get it...you give me too much credit Goosie...
I've got a life...;)

[Mr. Ogyny]

The real intimancy such as cuddles and late night conversations and just lying together just the two of you.
I would hate to think in a fews years time my how partner might feel if he has had to sleep elsewhere because of me cop-sleeping with the DS's.To me one of the best things you can give your kids is the comfort in knowing mummy and daddy love each other very much and they have special time together.
I am not saying that I am against it but I would like to hear from the Dads that do sleep elsewhere due to this arrangement and how they feel about any loss of intimacy with their partner.
Are there any Dads out there?
Let me hear your thoughts.

A while ago I chose to sleep on the sofabed when I am working days (I work days and nights on alternate weeks). I had a couple of reasons. Lack of room in the bed, restless sleep and waking my wife and daughter up when my alarm goes off in the morning. I don't resent my daughter for it. I am just as intimate with my wife, just not as often in bed;) I mean we still kiss and cuddle and occasionally sneak away to the bedroom for some quiet us time. In other words we adjust without sacrificing our own happiness, just channelling it into other areas. And of course, we are raising a well-loved balanced young lady.

[my_lot]

angelbaby8- when i posted that my 9 year old thought the 5 year old calling her father an idiot was rude, you jumped to the defence of this child by saying she was attention seeking as any normal 5 year old would.

when mumaduke said the 3 year old squealed constantly you jumped to the defence again saying she was attacking a 3 year old and it was the cameras in his face that made him this way.

i also noticed this little boy did squeal alot but didnt notice the lack of words ..so it was interesting to see what stuck out to others about this show.

what i did notice and has stuck with me was the 5 year old calling the dad an idiot, RIGHT after both girls had been asked to get off the table and didnt!

i am very happy my 9 year old saw this child as being rude, THATS exactly what she was!


i dont think this is showing the good in AP- it was showing that this child was not listening to a simple instruction such as "get off the table" and then showing no respect to the same parent by calling him an idiot!

[Pippi Longstocking]

They filmed Janet and her family all day long. Those squeals were more than likely the only ones the little boy did all day! 60 minutes in all of their journalistic integrity and record of sticking to honest accurate journalism *coughbullsh!tcough* would not have shown him interacting pleasantly with his mum. They were quite obviously portraying AP in a negative light. That was clearly their agenda and they achieved it. I don't know how long they filmed the UK family for but it was more than likely for the same amount of time and entirely possible that they picked the one moment of poor behaviour and used that to slant their story.


Oi They! Wanna sneak away to the bedroom for some "quiet us time?" *leers suggestively*

[Duchessa]

Ewww I feel unclean :barf: ... and look out... :bfp: :laughing:

I have to say, it is reassuring to see so many people on these boards, who, despite the fact they are not AP, can see that that 60 Minutes presented a completely fabricated version of AP to suit mainstream expectations and appetites. :thumbsup: It takes the disappointment out of it a bit.

I don't consider myself to be AP but that would be the closest label to my style. There are good psychological/emotional etc reasons why I parent like that - and it just feels right for my children (particularly at the young age that they are) to take first place in my order of priorities.

Bit disappointed to read that there are quite a few people who frequent this board who are determined to believe that 60 Mins gave the topic and its contributors a fair showing.

[A Party of Five]

I dont know why they used those UK parents?

I thought there was UK, US and Aussie familys?

[shed]

I don't consider myself to be AP but that would be the closest label to my style.

Thats how I feel too. If 60 Minutes came to my house they could film breastfeeding, co-sleeping, cloth wearing and make of it whatever they like,

or they could have come a few minutes ago and filmed my 12 week old baby in his rocker plonked in front of the telly, :eek: :laughing: .

I had to hang the washing out so plonked him there. Can't take him with me coz of the dogs. Came back in and he was cracking up at Hi-5, so I let him watch it. Bad mummy, whatever.

But I AM glad they aren't filming a story about it and making out like he was there all day, I must admit. :p

[misskittyfantastico]

Honestly, the producers of 60 minutes and other "current affairs" show have the journalistic integrity of a drunk frog....My DH wouldn't let me watch - he feared for the safety of his telly.

[Angelmist♥]

Honestly, the producers of 60 minutes and other "current affairs" show have the journalistic integrity of a drunk frog....

LMAO now I can't get ''Jeremiah was a bullfrog" out of my head:laughing:

:o Please continue!

[cosmic]

Well it begs the question...why were they allowed through the front door in the first place?

I would imagine participants were told there was going to be a segment about AP and they wanted to present "both sides" and that Janet thought it was a good opportunity to present the benefits of AP. Little did she know.... :rolleyes:

Similarly, a little while ago, some Bubhubbers were asked to present their views on vaccination for an apparently "impartial" piece on A Current Affair. Anyone who saw it knows that it was clearly supportive of vaccination, but that was not what we were told prior to being interviewed. It's all in the editing.

[A Party of Five]

It really just upsets me that AP is hard enough to get people to understand without this type of portrayal... :banghead:

So where would you find more information about AP?

[misskittyfantastico]

A book I found very helpful was "The Attatchment Parenting Book" by William and Martha Sears.....if you google them, you will find masses of info.:)

[reAllytee]

Similarly, a little while ago, some Bubhubbers were asked to present their views on vaccination for an apparently "impartial" piece on A Current Affair. Anyone who saw it knows that it was clearly supportive of vaccination, but that was not what we were told prior to being interviewed. It's all in the editing.


Sorry C but we werent told which side it was going to be we were just asked to show many different views from many various mums to give a "broad" view of mums in regards to vaccinating.

Anywhos i do agree that i would never have let them through my door not for any reason because basically they are 60 minutes ..... DP wanted to involve AC &/or Today Tonite in regards to what happened with his employer i laughed at him & said he had buckleys chance. Because a) i wasnt going to allow us to be made into some matyr type couple who has the world against them or b) have it turned around back on us at some stage with careful editting. Let alone have them in my home which could upset Boof or at least later in life embarass him at being on such a show.

[SmileyBJ]

:confused: I thought it was ridiculous and a very one sided interview of her opinion and she was obviously against it. I personally dont agree with everything in AP but I also respect the decisions of other parents who choose to raise their children with AP styles. They have some good opinions and have the right to choose to raise their children any way they desire!! People need to be educated into having a greater understanding of different parenting styles and accept their individual beliefs.

[Tannie]

Agree allyoo. I too have been interviewed several times by media for diff stories.........one needs to go in to it with eyes WIDE open & if you think the topic they are going to interview you on could easily make you look bad......then just don't "go there"!! Iwould say if anyone asked to follow us around for an entire day - with the unpredictabity of 2 small children (esp if it was about my child rearing...) then I would politely say 'thanks but no thanks'! OR I would question them ++++++ about what the story was aiming for, request at least a 4 hour "time-out" in the middle of the day OR insist I see the story before it goes to air and get allowed to veto my footage.

They probably wouldn't want me then anyway................but I do know that my kids are used to being here with me 24/7 and every 2nd week hb 24/7 as well. We have people over a few times a week with kids they are now getting to know + other friends they know......but even then, the stimulation of all the "extra" people in the house often sends them into a bit of overdrive for a while and settling them for day sleeps esp can be hard with others in the house................so for this reason, I'd never agree to an interview including the children filmed over such a short space of time.....kwim?

I admire JanetF for giving it a go - but really - she agreed to it and allowed the cameras in her house........naive probably some would say.......I guess she wanted to get the AP message across to the masses, which is admirable. But I think that if parents are SO concerned or even interested in their style of parenting or to learn more........they will end up places like bubhub and other similar forums.......where they will then look up the relevant areas of interest and "bingo" they'll soon learn there are differnet theories and again - if really interested & motivated - go from there!!

So in my opinion - there's no need to actively "spread the word"........if ANY idea or theory is a GOOD one and based on sound principles.....it will "spread itself" anyway...........:smiliedance: :yes:

T

[the_queen]

I'd say AP as a "philosophy" is gathering momentum; hence the mainstream tabloid media doing a story on it...... :rolleyes:

[Seekrit]

My SIL, who doesn't use Bubhub or heard of AP before watching 60 minutes was appalled.

She was not appalled at the journalism, the story, the sensation or anything. She was appalled that people "would do that" to their kids. She understood that it's a lot about parenting over love, but she thinks that people are blind to it. :(

I felt so sad for her that she didn't know what I knew.

[A Party of Five]

A book I found very helpful was "The Attatchment Parenting Book" by William and Martha Sears.....if you google them, you will find masses of info.:)

Thanks Martha I will check that out now. I would like to make up my own mind about it. I think that I am the just about the only person who has not heard of AP before :eek:

[our little treasures]

I think that Janet F done a fab job and I think that after reading this thread, that most Australians would have realised that it was all a load of crock..

Maybe now a lot of australians will research it and follow AP or whatever forms of it that they like..

[RedPanda]

It would be good to get JanetF's version of how it was filmed, how long etc. Goosie - have you spoken to her about it? Is she disappointed with how she was depicted?

[Pippi Longstocking]

Implying that Janet is to blame for the media portraying her in a bad light is a classic example of today's "blame the victim" mentality.
Even the most ignorant buffoon can clearly see that the piece on 60 minutes was heavily biased and edited in a way that supported a set viewpoint.
I commend Janet for handling it so well. I think that she answered the questions really well. It was quite obvious that she was seething at the smarmy smirky Tara Brown (and I don't blame her) yet she managed to handle herself with dignity and honesty.
As most bubhubbers know (thanks to my big mouth :D ) I am committed to having camera crews regularly film myself and my family for the next seven years. I acknowledge that this was a huge risk. But I went ahead with it because I feel it is an important project to be part of. I am sure that Janet would have felt the same about that story. Fortunately, our film crews are the most respectful lovely and understanding people. If we don't want them to film stuff, they don't. They protect our dignity and privacy. See, genuine journalistic integrity is a beautiful thing!

[my_lot]

THEM-

what are you being filmed for?

[reAllytee]

Implying that Janet is to blame for the media portraying her in a bad light is a classic example of today's "blame the victim" mentality.
Even the most ignorant buffoon can clearly see that the piece on 60 minutes was heavily biased and edited in a way that supported a set viewpoint.
I commend Janet for handling it so well. I think that she answered the questions really well. It was quite obvious that she was seething at the smarmy smirky Tara Brown (and I don't blame her) yet she managed to handle herself with dignity and honesty.
As most bubhubbers know (thanks to my big mouth :D ) I am committed to having camera crews regularly film myself and my family for the next seven years. I acknowledge that this was a huge risk. But I went ahead with it because I feel it is an important project to be part of. I am sure that Janet would have felt the same about that story. Fortunately, our film crews are the most respectful lovely and understanding people. If we don't want them to film stuff, they don't. They protect our dignity and privacy. See, genuine journalistic integrity is a beautiful thing!

I totally agree with you Them :p I think Janet handled it soooo well it wasnt funny yes her lo whinged meh big whoop come to my house & see Boof whinge tis way worse than that !!!!! She was honest & very open she did it all with dignity !
You also bring up a good point you chose to go into Life At One knowing it was risky BUT the thing is its a totally different medium being more a documentary as well as being produced by well known producers who have integrity etc unlike 60 minutes. We all know what they are like as we all know TT & AC arent full of integrity either so this is where i ask why would you do it ???? I can see that trying to make a difference or hoping for once someone on one of these shows did something a little more balanced or the likes is a good reason in theory but when it comes down to it we all know it just wont happen.

[RedPanda]

Implying that Janet is to blame for the media portraying her in a bad light is a classic example of today's "blame the victim" mentality.
Even the most ignorant buffoon can clearly see that the piece on 60 minutes was heavily biased and edited in a way that supported a set viewpoint.
I commend Janet for handling it so well. I think that she answered the questions really well. It was quite obvious that she was seething at the smarmy smirky Tara Brown (and I don't blame her) yet she managed to handle herself with dignity and honesty.
As most bubhubbers know (thanks to my big mouth :D ) I am committed to having camera crews regularly film myself and my family for the next seven years. I acknowledge that this was a huge risk. But I went ahead with it because I feel it is an important project to be part of. I am sure that Janet would have felt the same about that story. Fortunately, our film crews are the most respectful lovely and understanding people. If we don't want them to film stuff, they don't. They protect our dignity and privacy. See, genuine journalistic integrity is a beautiful thing!

I think what you're doing is great Them, and I also think JanetF was brave to allow cameras into her life. I've never really been around babies, so when I was pregnant, video footage was all I really knew of birth and bf. I've only ever known two bf ladies in my life (TwoBlue and my SIL), so I am grateful to those ladies who are willing to allow cameras into their lives for the education of others. I think this was JanetF's intentions - to allow others to see her style of parenting for educational purposes rather than to be made fun of. Guess you've got to pick your programmes....

[*Chels*]

WOW
Ive been at work all day and this thread has REALLY taken off!!Bit hard to understand with all the deleted posts tho!!
Interesting to see everyones point of view tho.

PS Mandy(Emsmum) I do think cots are baby jail-that just my opinion tho,and only coz Riley stands up and screams in his cot and has the look on his face of "rescue me please!!!"

[Mamaduke]

Knowing what I know now about the segment I watched it again and all I can say is..."respect" and "empathy"...hmmm leading by example is she? :rolleyes:

...and yes Goosie, that is the 'sour grapes' talking :)

[Mummabear]

My thoughts on what we were shown of the behaviour of all of the children involved is that I understand that all children have bad days, I'm not an idiot and I have a 15 month old who likes to test the boundaries on a daily basis, but the fact of the matter is that in one instance we had two young girls being given a direct request to cease a particular behaviour which could have resulted in injury (climbing on the table) and simply answered back and we very rude and disrespectful to their parents and the other child was not even asked to cease their behaviour because in the words of the mother "at this age he has no concept of empathy so he's not going to stop just because I want him to". Now I simply don't see how this is raising well adjusted children :confused:. I completely agree that a 2.5 year old doesn't understand empathy, but even at 15 months my son understands respect and more often than not will cease doing what he is doing if I ask him to or worst case scenario is I approach him and physically remove him from the situation and talk to him about why this is happening and why I wanted him to stop - no he doesn't understand me yet, but one day he will and it will probably be well before I realise that he is understanding me. If it is because he's tired, over stimulated, etc then I know exactly how to handle that situation also, and none of it involves smacking or yelling or threatening - I refuse to even use the 1, 2, 3 method. My point is that I don't consider myself AP and I probably do many things that the hardcore APers portrayed in this piece would find appauling (ff for example) but in my house they would not have have gotten enough footage of a child misbehaving with which to 'cleverly edit' to their benefit in the first place. All I saw was children behaving badly and parents allowing them to.

Raising your children against the grain of mainstream society is a tough decision and one that I applaude as there are many aspects of mainstream that I avoid also, but at the end of the day it is purely my opinion that if you do not also teach your child how to mesh with mainstream then you are not going to have a well balanced child, because whether you like it or not this is the society that they are eventually going to have to learn to become part of, unless you want them spending their lives living under your skirt, away from others and never spreading their wings and living life. Like it or not mainstream is exactly that - mainstream and children need to learn how to deal with not getting their own way, rejection, constructive criticism and boundaries because that is the way the real world works.

Once again - just my opinon, which afterall is what this place is about isn't it??? So don't jump on me because my opinon is different to yours.

[our little treasures]

Well said THEM:yelclap:

Chels yes my DD gave me that look in her cot as well!! :crying:

[Pippi Longstocking]

THEM-

what are you being filmed for?


There's a thread here all about moi and my fame :p .
http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=44438

[Goosie22]

...and yes Goosie, that is the 'sour grapes' talking :)

I was never in any doubt about that;) .

[our little treasures]

I saw that thread title and never went into it as I thought, sounds like PAY TV... I don't have pay tv.. So on that thought I have missed it.. Is it on again??

[Tannie]

Mummabear - you hit the nail on the head - well said - my thoughts too!

Them - JanetF a "victim"??!! now THAT'S the most outrageous thing that has been said in the entire thread :devil6: (said with a sense of humour and tongue firmly in cheek!!)

T

[Pippi Longstocking]

Outrageous? How so? You've lost me, could you elaborate?

[Duchessa]

And that would be the shortest post I've ever seen you post :devil6: (with tongue firmly in cheek of course!) :D

[reAllytee]

And that would be the shortest post I've ever seen you post :devil6: (with tongue firmly in cheek of course!) :D


:laughing:

[carls]

Just my short personal opinion on 60 minutes... yes I think there is more to attachment parenting than what they showed, yes they did show it in a bad light but i feel:-

*breastfeeding your 5 year old is ODD bordering on wrong and sick.
*not disciplining your children is wrong and certainly saying that the worst thing you can do is to tell your children to respect your elders is also wrong. what is the world coming to?
* no nappies and letting your child poo and wee on the floor inside - these people have no sense of basic decency and hygiene.

I havent spoken to one person that saw that show that doesnt agree that it was all downright shocking that children are being raised like this, and I would hate to think of the kind of adults it will create for our society.

[*Chels*]

Just my short personal opinion on 60 minutes... yes I think there is more to attachment parenting than what they showed, yes they did show it in a bad light but i feel:-

*breastfeeding your 5 year old is ODD bordering on wrong and sick.
*not disciplining your children is wrong and certainly saying that the worst thing you can do is to tell your children to respect your elders is also wrong. what is the world coming to?
* no nappies and letting your child poo and wee on the floor inside - these people have no sense of basic decency and hygiene.

I havent spoken to one person that saw that show that doesnt agree that it was all downright shocking that children are being raised like this, and I would hate to think of the kind of adults it will create for our society.
Is it just those issues that you have a prob with or all aspects of AP parenting??

[carls]

Is it just those issues that you have a prob with or all aspects of AP parenting??

I dont have a problem with sleeping with your baby to a certain point... kicking hubby out into another bedroom in order to sleep with your baby is another thing. DP is still trying to pick his jaw up off the ground over that one.

No nappies...come on!!!! Is this really a part of attachment parenting? God hope those who have carpet.

No discipline, no boundaries. Its common knowledge that children need these and we have to wonder what kind of respect the child is going to have of laws in society when it grows up, if it hasnt known of it in childhood. "I dont smack my husband so why would I smack my child"? are you serious? Theres a lot of difference between the brain of a grown man and a toddler in regards to self control, knowing boundaries and knowing what is right and wrong.

I think some people want to be a friend to their child rather than a parent and are too scared to discipline.

I believe that when a child is at a stage where they are ASKING for the boob, its probably time to think about weaning, unless they want to be the joke of all other children and shunned by society.

[*Chels*]

I dont have a problem with sleeping with your baby to a certain point... kicking hubby out into another bedroom in order to sleep with your baby is another thing. DP is still trying to pick his jaw up off the ground over that one.

No nappies...come on!!!! Is this really a part of attachment parenting? God hope those who have carpet.

No discipline, no boundaries. Its common knowledge that children need these and we have to wonder what kind of respect the child is going to have of laws in society when it grows up, if it hasnt known of it in childhood. "I dont smack my husband so why would I smack my child"? are you serious? Theres a lot of difference between the brain of a grown man and a toddler in regards to self control, knowing boundaries and knowing what is right and wrong.

I think some people want to be a friend to their child rather than a parent and are too scared to discipline.

I believe that when a child is at a stage where they are ASKING for the boob, its probably time to think about weaning, unless they want to be the joke of all other children and shunned by society.

Well I take it that you dont breastfeed.I agree with you to a certain extent tho.Im still breastfeeding my 1 year old and will continue as long as he needs.
As for the co-sleeping thing.My point of view is that babies are little for such a long time and I have the rest of my life to share a bed with my partner.
The AP thing is NOT no discipline!!!!!
Its GENTLE discilpine as in not coming across as the "boss" and making youre child feel threatened and scared of you!
Whats wrong with that??????
And not all APers dont use nappies.Hell,I use them!and they aint cloth!But still we have no nappy time,and hell yes we have had pee on the floor-but who cares?clean it up and get on with life.
I think you are totally buying into 60mins story and you should open your mind a bit more.
Like Ive said already in this thread,if you dont understand AP,check out other threads in this section to understand it from real peoples point of view.

[SamanthaJane]

No discipline, no boundaries. Its common knowledge that children need these and we have to wonder what kind of respect the child is going to have of laws in society when it grows up, if it hasnt known of it in childhood. "I dont smack my husband so why would I smack my child"? are you serious? Theres a lot of difference between the brain of a grown man and a toddler in regards to self control, knowing boundaries and knowing what is right and wrong.

I was thinking that too :yes:

And Mummabear - I agree 100% :yes:

[Duchessa]

But Carls, after reading threads such as this one that have discussed the AP, do you really think these things are common amongst APers??!! Seriously?

[our little treasures]

And that would be the shortest post I've ever seen you post :devil6: (with tongue firmly in cheek of course!) :D

:laughing: LMAO