View Full Version : you know why?
BrokenButterfly
22-10-2006, 00:31
you know why family services is never able to find time and people to investigate all the real claims of child abuse?
because they are too buy investigating false claims made by malicious people or interfering people who have no idea what child abuse really is.
i was a victim of child abuse and i've seen kids get abused terribly too - i've also seen several people victims of family services gone troppo where a single report of a child being smacked once gets a kid taken away.
i've also seen good people hassled by family services when ex partners make terrible false accusations (one of these false accusations that was unfortunately taken serious enough to investigate came from the very man who had lost custody of the child in question himself because when the broke the kids leg from shaking him when he was six weeks old).
why did i post this? because i see the constant complaints that family services doesn't investigate serious claims. it's disgusting that they don't. but the biggest reason for that is all the false claims they have to investigate, and nosey people who feel they have to report "child abuse" when the child is being taken care of fine.
after seeing how much child abuse happens (and its all too common) it disgusts me all the people who make false or unnecessary complaints.
of course, any GENUINE concern should be reported, don't get me wrong on that. it's just they get a hell of a lot of non genuine complaints which wastes time that could be spent on real child abuse cases.
Angelmist♥
22-10-2006, 09:49
While I definitely agree with you, I was just wondering what sort of cases do constitute child abuse?When is it ok for 'interfering' people to report it?
pookiesossige
22-10-2006, 10:18
While I definitely agree with you, I was just wondering what sort of cases do constitute child abuse?When is it ok for 'interfering' people to report it?
I think that as part of the Intake Team (not going out on investigations, just taking the calls and looking into the reports that were made) I had to ascertain "whether the child was at significant risk of considerable harm" if I remember correctly. Physical, emotional, neglect, all those things. I could put forward to the team leader what I thought was an urgent situation but had to have done the background work- for example, did the child's teachers/local police/etc have any concerns for the child's welfare. How was the child presenting for school, had police been called to attend domestic's at the family home, etc. Used to really pi$$ me off when I knew damn well something serious was going on- but it was just so well hidden within the family. I was very carful about false claims- could you imagine the impact of a worker thinking "far out, just what I need, another false claim from Mr X" when for once, no-one was crying wolf and there really was a need for protective services to be involved? It's so hard to get it right...
I never minded someone calling me with concerns to discuss that maybe made them 'interfering'. I always told people calling who weren't sure if they should have bothered that I was glad they called and then I discussed with them what issues were of real cause for concern. It's the 'interfering' family members who are often what those kids need in their lives. Sometimes it's the last thing they need.
No individual worker calls the shots, it's a team thing and if there is indicators of abuse, the case is put across to the 'planned response team'.
I really hope I've answered this ok.. I'm always open to correction! I only worked with Protective Services for a short period of time on a short-term contract about 5 years ago, so I've forgotten a lot of the goings-on...
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 10:47
Most "interfering" people I think have best intentions at heart. If something has made them uncomfrtable then they want to make it better and that is hardly a bad thing.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 12:40
Why the hell should some poor lady have her whole life turned upside down and destroyed because she may have had a dispute with a next door neighbour or a falling out with a family member ???
Well in that case it would be BAD intentions not good...
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 12:57
No it's seen by the law as good intentions and good will even though it's not. If its proven to be false you can't even go after the notifier for compensation or sue them for libel and defermation.
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 13:17
If your not sure exactly what's really going on then you should become aware of the facts first before even picking up the phone and reporting that family. It may save you alot of grief and humiliation in the long run
But what if that child is actually in danger?? That is what the service is for as far as I know... It is their job to investigate the situation to see if there is a problem. Random people trying to get into the personal lives of others (to find out the 'facts') could get very nasty... JMO
mythreelittlemonkeys
22-10-2006, 13:35
cenasangel : seems someone you know has been falsely accused and that must have hurt them and you as a friend...but there are times when itnerference as it may seem to you saves kids lives...and many families may on the surface seem normal etc...but children are being abused, neglected etc...that is why when someone genuinely had a hunch or feels those children may be being abused or neglected they ring...otherwise it could go on for years undetected...there are always the unfair situations as you seem to have experienced but there is also alot of situations when 'interference' saves these kids lives...
from personal experience DOCS do not investigate thoroughly apart from a couple of calls and background work until they are pretty certain that some sort of neglect or abuse in the eyes of the law is happening...but that may just be how it is now here in WA. I agree it is sad when people are not genuinely concerned and ring up with intentional false accusations...cant understand how they could be so selfish as to put the children and family through it...but people who genuinely are concerned or worried should not be put off calling as they no doubt have come to the decision to call having thought about the effects on the children and decided that the neglect abuse is worse...
Angelmist♥
22-10-2006, 13:41
Thanks Pookiesossige!I just wasn't sure what sort of things you should call about.I agree Princess Niamh also, people really do need to start 'interfering'.There are so many cases where people knew what was going on but didn't want to 'interfere':(
I think ALL children need people looking out for them whether it's a concerned neighbour,teacher,doctor,Grandma or friend of the family.I don't think anyone should be judged as 'interfering'.
Yes the neighbours holding a grudge so they report you is horrible but IMO there has to be something to report in the first place or otherwise as Pookie said it wouldn't even get past the first call.
Hypothetically, I'd much rather dob in my neighbours for screaming/beating their children, have them looked into and make sure it was a nasty misunderstanding than continue for the abuse to carry on.IYKWIM. Sorry but that's my opinion and I wish everyone felt the same.
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 13:45
That's a very good point Billy
I think that they should have a system where only people in authority e.g teachers, healthcare professionals ect can make reports. Secondly i think anyone making a report should not be held anonimous (even though you can work out who done it pretty quickly, just by the allegations that were made) and should be able to be held legaly liable apon the allegations that they themselfs made. I also think that the report by phone system should be abolished and a report should only be made in person at the local welfare office. I belive seeing the actual person making the allegations would make it easier for the social worker to acertain if the report has even the remotest chance of being genuine. Also it's alot easier to make a false report knowikng that there are no consequenses after. That's why people use welfare in that manner. If some one in genuine about making a report they would have no problem with fronting up to a welfare office to present their case to a social worker because they know they aqre telling the truth.
mythreelittlemonkeys
22-10-2006, 13:50
i agree - if you are that concerned a trip to the local welfare office to report it will not worry you...I think anonymity is to protect the reporter from abuse from the reported should be kept if requested...
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 13:50
Hypothetically, I'd much rather dob in my neighbours for screaming/beating their children, have them looked into and make sure it was a nasty misunderstanding than continue for the abuse to carry on.IYKWIM. Sorry but that's my opinion and I wish everyone felt the same.
Are you prepared to face the consequenses of your actions if that yelling and screaming actually came from say a little Autistic boy and it all was a big misunderstanding, and are you prepared to face his/her parents with that same opinion when they come pounding on your your door for an explanation (or revenge if are not taking what happened to them at all well??)
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 13:55
i agree - if you are that concerned a trip to the local welfare office to report it will not worry you...I think anonymity is to protect the reporter from abuse from the reported should be kept if requested...
No i think that's a weak cop out...... if your big enough to make a report then you should have no issues with making your name known as the person who done it. If your not prepared to be completely out in the open and willing to face whatever consequenses come with making a report then you should think twice about making one.
Angelmist♥
22-10-2006, 14:28
Are you prepared to face the consequenses of your actions if that yelling and screaming actually came from say a little Autistic boy and it all was a big misunderstanding, and are you prepared to face his/her parents with that same opinion when they come pounding on your your door for an explanation (or revenge if are not taking what happened to them at all well??)
Umm TBH a big fat YES, I don't scare too easily!
Cenasangel- From what I can gather from your posts (and please correct me if I'm wrong,it's just that you are taking this rather personally) I'm assuming someone has reported you to a welfare organisation.
I DO NOT believe it's a "cop out" for someone to remain anonymous if they wish.What if it's poor old Grandma or the 80 yr old neighbour?Surely they don't deserve someone pounding on their door (or revenge if they are not taking it well).
Blessed Mum
22-10-2006, 14:37
:thumbsup: Nara. I'm not one who scares easy either especially where the safety & wellbeing of children are concerned. I certainly wouldn't report anyone just for nothing or to be spiteful but if I know a child is being abused its not ok to go "well its not really my place or any of my business" .
Believe me I have seen first hand the effects left on abused children & its sickening. The general consensus these days is Lets as a community try & stop these kids living like this, all kids deserve to grow up in an enviroment free from harm. Surely we all agree on that.
Editied to add: In saying that I do feel for families who have been put thru the turmoil of notifications purely based on malice
pookiesossige
22-10-2006, 14:44
But what if that child is actually in danger?? That is what the service is for as far as I know... It is their job to investigate the situation to see if there is a problem. Random people trying to get into the personal lives of others (to find out the 'facts') could get very nasty... JMO
That's it Billy- in my opinion, that is spot on.
...but people who genuinely are concerned or worried should not be put off calling as they no doubt have come to the decision to call having thought about the effects on the children and decided that the neglect abuse is worse...
:yes: :yes:
Hypothetically, I'd much rather dob in my neighbours for screaming/beating their children, have them looked into and make sure it was a nasty misunderstanding than continue for the abuse to carry on.IYKWIM. Sorry but that's my opinion and I wish everyone felt the same.
I do agree, if you think (you don't have to have proof- just a concern) that a child is at risk of significant harm- then by all means call. The call just starts a routine of investigation- Child Protection don't hang up after they have spoken to someone with a report and say "hey, grab the police, we're headin' over to remove that child!". There is a lot of investigating to do and a lot of people to talk to before anything happens- even just for a referral for the family to go to a parenting program. I mean, these are our babies and our children I'm talking about! I use the word 'our' because there's a kind of belonging they have to the future of our nation, as future parents themselves... do you know what I mean?? I'm sure that there are bubhubbers reading this who were abused as children/infants thinking "man, I wish I had an interfering family member who fought for me!"
No i think that's a weak cop out...... if your big enough to make a report then you should have no issues with making your name known as the person who done it. If your not prepared to be completely out in the open and willing to face whatever consequenses come with making a report then you should think twice about making one.
In my opinion (and it's only my opinion, no biggie if anyone disagrees!) it's not about copping out and it doesn't matter at all if someone doesn't want they're name known. It's about the child and the fact that they might be at risk of abuse. But at times it can help with the investigation if their position in the family/familie's social circle is known.
I have reported a child and remained anon. to Protective Services because I was threatned with harm if I reported what I saw happening. Yet the child approached me for help after the incident. I wanted to do the right thing, but I was scared and also had it stuck in my head that I wouldn't be believed if they knew that I was only a teenager. I was a bit too young to know for sure that workers had to maintain confidentiality and I didn't know about privacy legislation. I wanted to help that boy but I was $hit scared of my own saftey as well.
Blessed Mum
22-10-2006, 15:05
Thankyou for putting forward your experiences Pookie. I understand if you had fears around your own safety why then you would want to remain anon.
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 15:09
I do agree, if you think (you don't have to have proof- just a concern) that a child is at risk of significant harm- then by all means call. The call just starts a routine of investigation- Child Protection don't hang up after they have spoken to someone with a report and say "hey, grab the police, we're headin' over to remove that child!". There is a lot of investigating to do and a lot of people to talk to before anything happens- even just for a referral for the family to go to a parenting program. I mean, these are our babies and our children I'm talking about! I use the word 'our' because there's a kind of belonging they have to the future of our nation, as future parents themselves... do you know what I mean?? I'm sure that there are bubhubbers reading this who were abused as children/infants thinking "man, I wish I had an interfering family member who fought for me!"
I know for a fact that there are certain questions they have to legaly ask you when you get given the "big visit" which is a part of aqn investigation, so one has to ask..... what difference does it make where you have been or what you have done for the last 5 years before the allegations were made ??? also what difference does it make who you have have sex with, just as long as the kids are not involved. As a social worker im sure your fed the line that its only an investigation and it does no harm but i'm here to tell you it does, the fact that someone has made some henious alllegation against you that may or may not be false and then you have have to wait 2 weeks minmum to find out if your going to be found guilty or not. If your found not guilty all your given is some poxy letter with the findings of the investigation aqnd a thank you for your cooperation. Not even so much as an "im sorry". After that your out on your own. Theres no support group or anyone that can tell you how to rebuild again after tropical cyclone welfare has been through. Your basicly left out on your your own to sort out the mess they left behind yourself. All this whilst living in terror for the next time someone with with "good intentions" may rear their heads. I live in one of the roughest parts of Adelaide and i see this same senario being played out all the time.
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 15:17
Umm TBH a big fat YES, I don't scare too easily!
Cenasangel- From what I can gather from your posts (and please correct me if I'm wrong,it's just that you are taking this rather personally) I'm assuming someone has reported you to a welfare organisation.
Firstly i'm passionate about this because i live in one of the roughest areas in Adelaide and welfare is a big issue for our community. Secondly just because i have not been done by welfare yet this does mean that i will not be in the future. Ive a autistic son and i live in Elizabeth so the chances are better than average that i probably will be at some stage. Its a cross you have to beare living here i guess.
pookiesossige
22-10-2006, 18:12
..... what difference does it make where you have been or what you have done for the last 5 years before the allegations were made ??? also what difference does it make who you have have sex with, just as long as the kids are not involved.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate just on this bit for me? Re-phrase perhaps?
I am sorry but i find your argument hard to swallow.
Ok some people might be wrognly accused...but no system is perfect.
I have lived through various fmaily members being too scared to even ring up to dob someone in...
Waiting 2 weeks for a guilty/non guilty verdict might be hard..try living for 13 years wondering if someone might actually make one phonecall to save your life.
I am sorry I haev to admit I am taking this rather personally...but hell I just cant find a reason to try and deter people from ringing.
Ok everyone knows DOCS etc are not perfect..ohh i knwo that..but they do what they can.
Children do not have a voice and I believe the more people that honestly keep an ear and eye out for them the better this world will be.
I absolutely 100% agree. :yes:
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 20:23
am sorry but i find your argument hard to swallow.
Ok some people might be wrognly accused...but no system is perfect.
I have lived through various fmaily members being too scared to even ring up to dob someone in...
Waiting 2 weeks for a guilty/non guilty verdict might be hard..try living for 13 years wondering if someone might actually make one phonecall to save your life.
I am sorry I haev to admit I am taking this rather personally...but hell I just cant find a reason to try and deter people from ringing.
Ok everyone knows DOCS etc are not perfect..ohh i knwo that..but they do what they can.
Children do not have a voice and I believe the more people that honestly keep an ear and eye out for them the better this world will be.
Thats all very well and good but what if it was you and not some bird living down the street. Would you be able to look your child in the eyes knowing in a few weeks time he/she may no longer be apart of your life. Of course you would not and and no one would expect you too so why is it ok for someone else too ???__________________
misskittyfantastico
22-10-2006, 20:29
I imagine if you had DOCS visit you, you would feel quite attacked. But I believe that we need to look after the kids in this world.
Also, lets try and cool this discussion down.
our little treasures
22-10-2006, 20:34
Why the hell should some poor lady have her whole life turned upside down and destroyed because she may have had a dispute with a next door neighbour or a falling out with a family member ???
If it is just people doing it because they want to get back at you then that is wrong.. If it is someone who thinks you have done something right or wrong I think they still should investigate!!
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 20:38
Yeah but its different if the shoe is on the other foot...... you can say all now but you would not be saying you would be fine with it if it happened to you.
Maybe cenasangel... but how do you get reported if you are doing the right thing???:confused: By genuine well meaning people I mean...
Is it just in the circumstance of having autistic children and people not understanding that?? Because I agree if that was the case it would be devastating. :thumbsdown:
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 20:49
and i sincerley hope you never have to live through something like that so you and your family dont have to know how it feels
Shanaynay
22-10-2006, 20:49
Is it just in the circumstance of having autistic children and people not understanding that?? Because I agree if that was the case it would be devastating. :thumbsdown:
Well, you still might get investigated, but your child will still not be taken away without reason! Surely saving some children from abuse outweighs the embarrassment/inconvenience suffered by famillies who have been reported out of malice?
Shanaynay
22-10-2006, 20:51
Cenasangel..............do you want to talk about it? It is a little hard to understand where exactly you're coming from without really knowing what's going on???
Well, you still might get investigated, but your child will still not be taken away without reason! Surely saving some children from abuse outweighs the embarrassment/inconvenience suffered by famillies who have been reported out of malice?
Well I would certainly like to think so... The welfare of children can't be taken lightly IMO. :no:
Cenasangel, it certainly feels as though you have gone through something here, and I don't believe anyone wants to make you upset... maybe you could explain where you are coming from...
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 21:16
Why is it so hard to belive that some half yank from the rough side of Adelaide may see an injustice being done all around her and might just want to stick up for those less fortunante than herself ??
So you obviously know that ALL these people have done NOTHING wrong?? How can you possibly know that?? :confused: Alot goes on behind closed doors that people never talk about.... :shame:
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 21:21
Noone is disputing that at all but in a tightknit community like this one it does not take long to work out whats going on to whom. It's much like a country town here, every knows everyones business.
Why is it so hard to belive that some half yank from the rough side of Adelaide may see an injustice being done all around her and might just want to stick up for those less fortunante than herself ??
Ok well what about the injustice of children who are being abused??? This is just going around in circles!! :banghead:
Not everybody lives in a 'close knit country town' either who is posting on here- and I HAVE lived in a town like that and believe me- not everybody knew. NOBODY KNEW!
Shanaynay
22-10-2006, 21:30
Cenasangel,
I think we can all guess whats happened, and yeah, that sux. But you know, if you haven't done anthing wrong, then the authorities will know that, and while you will be inconvenienced and perhaps a little embarrassed, that will be the end of it.
At the end of the day I think we need to tank DOCS or whatever, that departents like this exist, fo rhte sake of the children they ARE able to help. ANd unfortunately their time IS wasted in cases such as yours, we aren't disputing that, but do realise WHY they are investigating... I'm just thankful we have someone to do it......
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 21:33
Ok well what about the injustice of children who are being abused??? This is just going around in circles!! :banghead:
If you have read my posts i want a fairer and more just system for all. Secondly as a long term resident of this dumping ground for Adelaides unwanted, i can say that know whats going on in this place as i have to see it everyday
pookiesossige
22-10-2006, 21:39
Noone is disputing that at all but in a tightknit community like this one it does not take long to work out whats going on to whom. It's much like a country town here, every knows everyones business.
That's interesting. I found that families in smaller country towns seemed to be quite good at hiding abuse when they needed to. Especially in farming communities.
You say that you are keen to stick up for people less fortunate then yourself. Are you talking about wanting to stick up for parents who are 'unfortunately' reported or the poor children who suffer at their hands? Who are you sticking up for?
A parent of a child with a disability may be investigated if there are claims that the child is at significant risk of harm - just like any other child to any other parent- with or without disability. No one is targeted because of a disability.
And if there is evidence of abuse, then action is taken. Good!!
If there is no evidence of abuse, then the case is dropped. That's great!!
That's interesting. I found that families in smaller country towns seemed to be quite good at hiding abuse when they needed to. Especially in farming communities. But if you think you know everything that goes on in your community, then good for you.
You say that you are keen to stick up for people less fortunate then yourself. Are you talking about wanting to stick up for abusive parents who are 'unfortunately' reported or the poor children who suffer at their hands? Who are you sticking up for?
I'll try and make this clear for you: A parent of a child with a disability may be investigated if there are claims that the child is at significant risk of harm - just like any other child to any other parent- with or without disability. No one is targeted because of a disability.
And if there is evidence of abuse, then action is taken. Good!!
If there is no evidence of abuse, then the case is dropped. That's great!!
Well said Em :thumbsup:
That's interesting. I found that families in smaller country towns seemed to be quite good at hiding abuse when they needed to. Especially in farming communities.
You say that you are keen to stick up for people less fortunate then yourself. Are you talking about wanting to stick up for parents who are 'unfortunately' reported or the poor children who suffer at their hands? Who are you sticking up for?
A parent of a child with a disability may be investigated if there are claims that the child is at significant risk of harm - just like any other child to any other parent- with or without disability. No one is targeted because of a disability.
And if there is evidence of abuse, then action is taken. Good!!
If there is no evidence of abuse, then the case is dropped. That's great!!
:yelclap: yep, well said :yes:
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 21:47
Funny you mentioned disabled kids...... they seem to be welfares best customers don't they
Ummm weren't you the one that brought up autistic kids in the first place??? No one would have mentioned it otherwise??? :confused: No one is trying to single anyone out!! I just believe for sticking up for the young ones that don't have a voice. :thumbsup:
pookiesossige
22-10-2006, 21:52
A parent of a child with a disability may be investigated if there are claims that the child is at significant risk of harm - just like any other child to any other parent- with or without disability. No one is targeted because of a disability.
C- You might have missed this part of my post.
cenasangel
22-10-2006, 21:56
I was using autism as an example because it was the first into my head
pookiesossige
22-10-2006, 22:00
I just believe for sticking up for the young ones that don't have a voice. :thumbsup:
That's all we can do, hey Belinda- there are waaay more kids out there who are glad that a friend or relative got them the help they needed then kids that wished no-one cared and had left them alone. :yes:
Ive a autistic son and i live in Elizabeth so the chances are better than average that i probably will be at some stage. Its a cross you have to beare living here i guess.
Ok it took me a minute to find this... The first thing that came to your head??? :confused:
That's all we can do, hey Belinda- there are waaay more kids out there who are glad that a friend or relative got them the help they needed then kids that wished no-one cared and had left them alone. :yes:
Absolutely Em :yelclap:
mythreelittlemonkeys
22-10-2006, 22:10
i agree - if you are that concerned a trip to the local welfare office to report it will not worry you...I think anonymity is to protect the reporter from abuse from the reported should be kept if requested...
No i think that's a weak cop out...... if your big enough to make a report then you should have no issues with making your name known as the person who done it. If your not prepared to be completely out in the open and willing to face whatever consequenses come with making a report then you should think twice about making one.
so if someone who is abusing their kids feels it also okay to come and abuse you because you 'dobbed them in' out of genuine concern thats okay?!? sorry I think that is the reason and reason alone the majority of people ask for anonymity...I obviously am on different wavelength...
No mytillieroo you're not on a different wavelength... :no:
mythreelittlemonkeys
22-10-2006, 22:18
oh and like someone said earlier these threads are to genreally offer discussion and support and an ear...which i think most of us have here...in fact reading through the post smost people have actually at some point agreed with parts of your point...we dont really deserve therefore any attacks...:confused:
pookiesossige
22-10-2006, 22:18
I'm sharin' your wavelength too, Tillieroo :yes:
cenasangel
23-10-2006, 13:25
so if someone who is abusing their kids feels it also okay to come and abuse you because you 'dobbed them in' out of genuine concern thats okay?!? sorry I think that is the reason and reason alone the majority of people ask for anonymity...I obviously am on different wavelength...
So you think it's ok to "dob someone in" and not face any consequenses apon those allegations being found to be "abuse not confirmed" that's zip,nada,nothing ?? why should that person not be subject to the same point of laws as everyone else. If some lady thinks that she has suffered as a result of allegations thaqt you made and she can get a judge to belive her then yes she should be able to go after appropriate costs to get her life back on track and to clear her and her families name then thats fair enough. The is no such thing as an action without a reaction.
cenasangel
23-10-2006, 13:34
And legal consequenses should be attached to that
Angelmist♥
23-10-2006, 14:05
Department of Child Safety website's complaint page (http://www.childsafety.qld.gov.au/child-protection/csos-visit-home.html)
Department of child safety's info page (http://www.childsafety.qld.gov.au/infogateway/shared/childprot/index.html)
The Department of Child Safety provides services to children and families where child abuse or neglect has been alleged or identified. Allegations of harm to children are assessed and responded to with advice, information, support and intervention services to families and community members.
Emphasis is placed on maintaining children with their families by supporting parents to care for their children.
I'm of the opinion that I would prefer to be 'falsely' investigated than have no-one investigating at all IYKWIM.
cenasangel
23-10-2006, 14:46
You say that now but i garuntee that you would not be saying that if it was happening to you and your family personaly
misskittyfantastico
23-10-2006, 15:50
Righto ladies, I'm getting dizzy. I think this thread has run it's course. Thankyou to those who contributed in a positive manner.
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