View Full Version : 1 in 100 babies delivered by caesarean section are injured
In a true emergency, I wouldnt worry about these risks, as the benefits would outway the fear of this injury - but a c/section for selfish reasons on my part or convenience for a health professional - it is just not worth it. This article just confirms to me that trying to avoid a c/section is the best course of action in my personal situation.....
There is a news story in Penang at present (dont have link at the moment) about a family suing an obstetrician for scarring their babies face with a scalpal when the mother was being cut open for her c/section.
C/sections arent as perfect as people seem to make them out to be.....if it were life and death, the scar would be part and parcel of a life saving procedure....but if I elected a c/section for personal reasons, and my baby ended up with an ugly scar on it's face as a result, I could never forgive myself, as it would be totally my fault.
http://www.spiritindia.com/health-care-news-article-2802.html
Pregnancy :: Babies can be injured during c-section
About 1 in 100 babies delivered by caesarean section are injured in the process. The risk of injury is influenced by the reasons for doing the c-section.
Researchers from the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas, analysed data from all 37,110 caesarean deliveries that took place at 13 centers between 1999 and 2000. The overall rate of injury to the baby was 1.1 percent.
Wounds to the skin accounted for more than half of the injuries. The next most common injury was severe bruising of the head, followed by broken collarbone, facial nerve da mage, injury to the chest-arm nerve network, and skull fracture. In women with a first-time c-section as well as those who had previously undergone the procedure, the highest rate of fetal injury occurred following an attempt to deliver through the birth canal using forceps or vacuum.
On the other hand, the lowest risk of injury was associated with elective repeat caesarean deliveries.
While c-section can prevent birth trauma in certain circumstances, it can also cause injury as the current findings illustrate. Women should be counseled that, although fetal injury is uncommon, it is not absent in caesarean delivery.
Obstetrics & Gynecology,
October 2006
Have you found any statistics on how many babies are injured during a natural birth?
It's hard to say how bad the statistic of '1 in 100' is without something to compare it to iykwim.
Tea Lady
18-10-2006, 13:13
Also worth noting that
the highest rate of fetal injury occurred following an attempt to deliver through the birth canal using forceps or vacuum.
... ie emergency c/secs. So the rate is actually (maybe alot?) lower than 1/100 for elective c/secs. I'd also be interested to know what they count as an "injury" - ie does a tiny scratch count or a little bruise?
Sorry Becca - I'm not having a go - I agree with your main point that people need to know there are risks to c/secs, I just have a "thing" about making sure the statistics aren't meant to say something they don't really.
Have you found any statistics on how many babies are injured during a natural birth?
It's hard to say how bad the statistic of '1 in 100' is without something to compare it to iykwim.
i agree...:yes:
the injuries you described sound similar to those that would happen during vb. i find it hard to believe babies lifted out are more "damaged: than those that have to squeeze thru a birth canal :confused: it would be good to compare the statistics as razzle has said.
btw i think its a bit unfair to say those who choose elelctives are selfish. one cannot judge before a day in their shoes iykwim
ry6mn,jigjicog,(thats my sons input)
I think the statistics you are referring to are about emergency c sections right? ei after they had tried to get the baby out vaginally using forceps etc. Well nobody can help it if you need to have an emergency c section, it has to happen. If you had just gone ahead and had a nice calm elective c section as I did, the risks of this kind of injury are probably about the same as VB's.
So why do we need to even have a thread about all the scary things that can happen during an emergency c section, when there isnt a thing the woman who is having the emergency c section can do about it??????:confused:
Hi Rebecca,
I understand that you are very passionate about this subject, but you need to remember that many people in this forum have had / will have elective c/s for anything BUT selfish reasons. To imply that people should feel guilty for any injuries caused by an elective c/s is just WRONG, because I know you are not saying the same thing about v/b or vbac.
Saying "my personal situation" does not take away from the generalisation that you are making. Threads like these do not educate, they just make people feel bad. :mad:
totally agree with Foxy.
My baby is tranverse and looks like staying that way, so I have to have an elective C section (so they call it) Call me nieve but i am pretty sure i can not deliver that way.
What are the other alternatives, there aren't any:no:.
This is the case for many women who have cesareans.
By the way i have already had 2 vaginal births (great ones) except my youngest was born posterior and has a stork mark on his forehead which he got from comming the wrong way up, so wouldn't you classify that as an injury?????
So why do we need to even have a thread about all the scary things that can happen during an emergency c section, when there isnt a thing the woman who is having the emergency c section can do about it??????
Maybe then we should have a thread about scary things that can happen in natural birh, I will start, I had a BABY come out of my vagina!!!!! :eek: :laughing: :o Now THAT is scary :yes:
CRIKEY COOPS!!! I'm-a shakin' in ma boots!! :eek:
Maybe then we should have a thread about scary things that can happen in natural birh, I will start, I had a BABY come out of my vagina!!!!! Now THAT is scary
LMAO!! :laughing: Why couldn't there be a third choice??!! Why didn't God make them come out of our elbows or something?!! I'd be all up for that!:cool: :D
Very funny Coops, that really made me giggle.:laughing:
I had a BABY come out of my vagina!!!!! Now THAT is scary :yes:
OMG babies come out of vagina's:eek:
A friend of ours little boy has a scar as long as his face from where they cut for the c/section sadly she laboured for a long time and his skull was also squashed and he need surgery for both things. Poor little man
Hi Rebecca,
I understand that you are very passionate about this subject, but you need to remember that many people in this forum have had / will have elective c/s for anything BUT selfish reasons. To imply that people should feel guilty for any injuries caused by an elective c/s is just WRONG, because I know you are not saying the same thing about v/b or vbac.
Saying "my personal situation" does not take away from the generalisation that you are making. Threads like these do not educate, they just make people feel bad. :mad:
totally agree foxy
it is not fair to make anyone feel guilty about the decision they make regarding THEIR body and THEIR unborn child. why is it that women are constantly made to feel bad about having cesas but never made to feel bad about having vaginal births. i understand that vaginally is the natural way but if people choose to take advantage of the advances in medicine then why should they be made to feel bad about that. alot of babies get injured during vaginal births also and as for statistics... they are never really all that reliable.
i just wish that women were able to make the decision about how they choose to give birth and be supported either way. i support women who have vaginal births and i also support women who have c sections. at the end of the day we are all trying to achieve one thing - to bring a happy and healthy baby safely into this world by whatever means we feel is right.
Chickadee
18-10-2006, 15:46
I believe this thread was started to present the information in the study for those mums who may be considering a c-section, for whatever reason. Information is power. The OP did not, in my opinion, say that those who choose or end up having a c-section are selfish. She said that she would feel bad if she chose to have one for selfish reasons.
Lets not start a fight. You don't have to agree with the study but be nice people.
Thanks Martha....
it was merely my personal reaction to the article - I coulda just put up the article without my personal take on it, but I figured that was too impersonal, iykwim ;)
I think it is a brilliant example of an article which shows how different interpretations can be taken on an issue. I think everyone has their own right to interpret these things the way they want - and if it leads someone to make further investigations, all the better :thumbsup:
I am fully aware that someone could read the article and feel confident in their choice for an elective, as the article reads that electives are safer for the baby. This of course is just a statement, with, as others have noted, no stats to back it up, but you can take it how you want it.
So I hope we can all just accept other peoples decisions that they take personally for themselves, without reading an attack into it...gee, I could be allergic to milk and take offence everytime I see an ad on telly for dairy......but that would be ridiculous. Everyone is different and has a right to interpret things the way they see as best for them without feeling like they dont deserve to state their views for whatever reason. Is that not the beauty of freedom of speech? We get to choose for ourselves.....that is just so liberating.
I mean, you could choose to somehow have your baby removed through your right earhole - and that would be your choice which I would respect ( tho maybe I'd raise an eyebrow to it ;) )
All I know, is that I feel as though my babies were not some cancerous disease that needs to be surgically removed from me else it damage my precious nether reasons and cause me some pain......It is a new human being, it has a rite of passage, and I felt that my children deserved my best efforts to come out of my body the way my Creator designed it to happen. But that is my reasoning alone - I ate part of my placenta for goodness sake, but I'm not here trumpeting that you all must go out and do the same! Same goes with how you birth your baby. It is up to you, and you alone......
information is power.....I dont think we should go into anything with our eyes shut - and hopefully articles like this one stir things in peoples brains.....and lead to a more empowering birth experience, and more awe and faith in our amazing bodies.
ps.... btw, when I said emergency, I also meant to say for real medical reasons such as placenta praevia, transverse lie etc......sorry I wasnt clearer - my bad, sorry if that offended anyone, but I submitted the thread then had to go out, so didnt spend much time writing it up.
If I was told I had placenta praevia with my last baby, I would have immediatley decided to have a c/section. so please dont see me as anti-c/sec.....a c/sec is a miracle when it is truly needed. The WHO says that 10-15% of c/sections are necessary for medical purposes, and I agree with that
thanx for clearing that up Beccy, sometimes what we are really trying to say comes out alittle muddled when writing it out:)
There is a place for ceserean birth either wise there would be a whole lot of unnecessary deaths.
I do agree that Vaginal birth is the best way, i wish to God that my baby would turn!!! Such is life or in my parents native language che sara sara.
Becca, I had to laugh at your post! (in disbelief) I do not believe having a c section is like removing a cancerous disease from my body.
Yes you have your opinions, but they are very offensive. You cleverly imply things and get your point across in a manner that really offends me as someone who has had an elective c section.
You imply many harsh and cruel judgemental things about women who haven chosen to have elective c sections.
I really just fed up with this whole attitude and you all get away with it by saying 'information is power' and all that kinda stuff. Yes fine, information is power...:ecomcity: But stick to the facts then, there is no need to then, to add why you think having a c section would be like removing a cancerous disease from your body as opposed to a baby.
What are you implying to all women who have had c sections?!!!!
MummyCharmzy
18-10-2006, 17:20
My daughter was one of the 100 injured.. her face was cut by the scapal.... its not a nice thing to experience but it is a risk of it and I had to have my csect no choice in the matter. She still has a little scar on her face from it, I was told it would heal and disappear but nup its still visable almost 4 months later, I know when shes older it will be nothing though.
Becca, I had to laugh at your post! (in disbelief) I do not believe having a c section is like removing a cancerous disease from my body.
Yes you have your opinions, but they are very offensive. You cleverly imply things and get your point across in a manner that really offends me as someone who has had an elective c section.
You imply many harsh and cruel judgemental things about women who haven chosen to have elective c sections.
I really just fed up with this whole attitude and you all get away with it by saying 'information is power' and all that kinda stuff. Yes fine, information is power...:ecomcity: But stick to the facts then, there is no need to then, to add why you think having a c section would be like removing a cancerous disease from your body as opposed to a baby.
What are you implying to all women who have had c sections?!!!!
you totally forget that I've had 2 c/sections and 2 natural births - my opinions are formed from real life experience - of both sides.....why am I not permitted to express my feelings and opinions?
In psycology, there is a phenomenom called 'projection'.....:detective:
When someone is secure about their decisions, they feel no need to be offended.....I'm not offended by your opinions on birth, tho they differ vastly from mine.....you can beleive what you like, do what you like as far as I'm concerned, no feathers ruffled.....as I am secure in the decisons I've made, and I wish you all the power and happiness in the world :yes:
Change the record. I am completely 100% secure in my decision, I know I did the right thing for me and my baby.
Just because someone is secure in their decision it doesn't mean they can't be offended by your remarks.:confused: What a silly thing to say. You are just insulting people and then when they call you on it you come up with the age old line of' well its just my opinion, am i not allowed to have my opinion'....:ecomcity:
Um yes, have your opinion, but don't insult people.
CarolineF
18-10-2006, 18:31
Maybe then we should have a thread about scary things that can happen in natural birh, I will start, I had a BABY come out of my vagina!!!!! :eek: :laughing: Now THAT is scary
Now that is what i call TMI!!!!!:eek: :laughing:
the_queen
18-10-2006, 18:32
Thanks for posting that article Becca, very interesting! :)
OMG babies come out of vagina's:eek:
I know....and hair comes out of my head, snot out my nose, perspiration out of my forehead etc etc.....how scary:eek: ....all this natural stuff doing what it is naturally designed to do....it's a wonder that we are not all hooked up to life support, since lifes so hard!
Thanks for posting that article Becca, very interesting! :)
no trouble....thought I'd do a little bit to try and help people make informed decisions :)
tho, apparently information is offensive to some......:confused:
Change the record. I am completely 100% secure in my decision, I know I did the right thing for me and my baby.
Just because someone is secure in their decision it doesn't mean they can't be offended by your remarks.:confused: What a silly thing to say. You are just insulting people and then when they call you on it you come up with the age old line of' well its just my opinion, am i not allowed to have my opinion'....:ecomcity:
Um yes, have your opinion, but don't insult people.
Im really sorry, but I am not going to lie about my feelings just to protect others who might feel differently.
I know you feel great about your c/section - and I am sure you dont feel you have to hide those feelings from anyone - so why is it a different rule for me :confused:
Im really sorry, but I am not going to lie about my feelings just to protect others who might feel differently.
I know you feel great about your c/section - and I am sure you dont feel you have to hide those feelings from anyone - so why is it a different rule for me :confused:
Because you are the one describing c sections as being like ''removing a cancerous disease from my body'!!!
I don't hide my feelings because they dont hurt or offend people....I'm telling you your's do.
Duchessa
18-10-2006, 20:16
Interesting article Becca - I've never really thought about injury during c/sect... There is an implied infalibility of c/sects that is a great myth to bust IMO. :thumbsup:
Information is power :ecomcity:, I thought this 'caesarean' section is meant to be positive??
Now that is what i call TMI!!!!!
Shocking I know Caroline!! :eek: and would you believe it happened to me 3 times!! :eek: :p
Is this really powerful information though? I really wonder at all the stats that you see about all aspects of birthing, feeding etc.
Unless there are some comparitive statistics then I am not sure how helpful it really is.
Remember, 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
My daughter was born after a very failed induction at 42 weeks, labour was traumatic and ended after 12 hours with only 3 cm dilated. My daughter's heartrate went very low so it was all a bit much! Wheeled in for an emergency c-section which ended up with me being totally knocked out because the epidural wasn't topped up enough and I felt them cutting me! Long story short, they cut me really wide and also cut my daughter's face with the scapal, it was only about 2cm long but close to her eye. :thumbsdown:
Even though the experience (both the labour/induced and c-section) was traumatic I will now opt for a VBAC (if it happens before the due date) and/or an elective c-section (whichever comes first) neither one can be judged 'better than the other', stats have found that a VB is 'riskier for the baby' and a c-section is 'riskier for the mother'. I refuse to be induced again and do not want trauma, trauma, trauma so if I go past due dates I will have c-section that will be 'elective' and will be a much more peaceful and tranquil entry into the world than any emergency c-section or VB gone wrong.
Is this really powerful information though? I really wonder at all the stats that you see about all aspects of birthing, feeding etc.
Unless there are some comparitive statistics then I am not sure how helpful it really is.
Remember, 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
It is powerful if it makes people think about their choices.....
I am a victim of myself - someone who didnt do any thinking or research into choices about birth until too late, and paid the price....my prayer is that other women dont make the same naive mistakes I did.....
they cut me really wide and also cut my daughter's face with the scapal
I went to see a friends new baby girl in hospital on Monday & the same thing happened to her baby but it was across her cheek :eek:
Because you are the one describing c sections as being like ''removing a cancerous disease from my body'!!!
I don't hide my feelings because they dont hurt or offend people....I'm telling you your's do.
I am someone who believes surgery is for emergencys, and I wouldnt even get cosmetic surgery done, unless it was repairing damage - (but I would consider that medically necessary.) ie, I wouldnt get a boob job or a face lift......that is the basis of my feelings I have described. I wouldnt allow unnecessary surgery to occur to myself - and that includes unnecessary surgery to remove my baby from my body. That is my opinion. My babies were not a disease, ie, I did not ever need surgery to have them removed from me. I cannot change or lie about the way I feel about it, despite how dramatic the descriptive language I used sounds.....otherwise i would be a liar.
Have I just offended all the people out there who want to have boob jobs and face-lifts? I doubt it. So why, when someone chooses to have their baby removed from them in that same vein as elective cosmetic surgery, are people offended?
excuse me for having faith in a womans ability to birth her baby :rolleyes:
It's amazing and so very sad how common these injuries are, thanks for sharing girls :crying:
Remember, 87% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
thankyou mariao
i am now finding this thread offensive also. saying that having a c section is like having a cancerous disease removed from your body is completely unacceplable. becca i understand that you are just trying to get your opinion across but you have to respect the fact that you went too far with the cancer comment. i am appaled.
this section is supposed to be supportive and educational for people and this is anything but.
ShadyCharacter
18-10-2006, 20:55
Because you are the one describing c sections as being like ''removing a cancerous disease from my body'!!!
I don't hide my feelings because they dont hurt or offend people....I'm telling you your's do.
I note she said 'MY body' - why make someone elses feelings about yourself?
Shazbutt
18-10-2006, 20:57
Long story short, they cut me really wide and also cut my daughter's face with the scapal, it was only about 2cm long but close to her eye. :thumbsdown:
DD1 was an emergency c-section and this happened to her, she has a scar about 2 1/2 cms on her cheekbone, close to her eye too. DD2 was a 'medically advised' elective c-section and all went smoothly.
I'm not going to get into the debate, just adding my personal experience about how common these injuries are.
Becca I don't want to hijack your thread but i went back & read all the post & seen you ate some of the placenta. I could never do that but I am really interested in what it tasted like :chef: ;) Chicken?
ShadyCharacter
18-10-2006, 20:58
Oh and Becca, snot comes out of your nose?? Babies out of vaginas I can handle, but snot? TMI ;)
I note she said 'MY body' - why make someone elses feelings about yourself?
She implied a lot of things about women who have elective c section, many of which are very offensive to anyone who has had a c section. I'd go back and quote them all but quite frankly Im bored of this now and Im watching my fave show on TV so.......:rolleyes:
I dont have a problem with giving people that facts, but when you start insulting and offending people IMO just for shock value...THAT is what i have a problem with. Lame.
Night Y'all.
the_queen
18-10-2006, 21:08
Becca, I think what speaks volumes is your birthing experiences, and your obvious intelligence. You are very qualified to speak on this topic. Thank you for posting this article, with which we all have the freedom to agree or disagree. :)
ShadyCharacter
18-10-2006, 21:13
I've read the thread, so no need to quote for me thanks Natasha :) I would say it is more your intepretation than what Becca said that is the issue. When Becca is talking about HER feelings and HER opinions, she is not talking about you, or not even 'implying' for that matter. You just choose to interpret it that way.
And for the record, I have had a c/section and am not offended in any way. I realise that other people have different feelings on things than I do.
MrsMiggins
18-10-2006, 21:23
Please remember to keep posts to the original topic.
If anyone has an issue with the content of another post, please use the icon at the top of the post to report it and it will be assessed by moderators.
Please do not continue personal arguments in this thread or it risks being closed.
Thank you to everyone who is contributing worthwhile information to this thread.
Becca I don't want to hijack your thread but i went back & read all the post & seen you ate some of the placenta. I could never do that but I am really interested in what it tasted like :chef: ;) Chicken?
dont really taste it....my midwife cut up about 100 tablet size pieces and froze them.....(I have a few left for emotional emergencies as they work so well) I swallow 2 or 3 like any other tablets.....just tastes like ice I suppose, but to be honest, I dont let it linger in my mouth :p
I just hope that the article makes people think about their birthing choices, and the choices that might need to be made when you are in labour that are best prepared for before labour starts, if that makes sense.
No need for argument......I think next time I post an article, I wont put up my feelings, and leave the article to be simply read and absorbed by whoever reads it.
So I am sorry if I get a bit passionate. My prayer is that I can prevent another young woman, not unlike myself 7 years ago, going into her first birthing experience totally uninformed and totally believing that they dont have to take responsibility for their birthing experience. That was my biggest mistake.....(tho I console myself with the thought that everything happens for a reason, and my trauma doesnt have to be worth nothing, if it can be used to help other people).
SamanthaJane
19-10-2006, 01:15
Babies risk being injured on their "way out" whether it be via a vaginal birth or a c/section.... Giving birth to a baby is a HUGE event that we put our bodies through and whether it is by a vaginal birth, or by a c/section there's a risk for both the baby and the mother that things may not go so well....
There are many other injuries that a baby may suffer through a vaginal delivery, such as:
Shoulder Dystocia
Post Partum Hemorrhage
Premature Rupture of Membranes
Breech Delivery
Placental Abruption
Abnormal Presentation
Placenta Previa
Prolapsed Umbilical Cord
Group B Streptococcus
Cord Around the Neck
Chorioamnionitis
Retained Placenta
Post Partum Fever
No natter how you look at it, child-birth is pretty dangerous no matter how the baby makes it way out. Both sides have their positives and negatives. But i guess that's just another reason why us women are so much better than men :D
cmd'smum
19-10-2006, 01:42
Babies risk being injured on their "way out" whether it be via a vaginal birth or a c/section.... Giving birth to a baby is a HUGE event that we put our bodies through and whether it is by a vaginal birth, or by a c/section there's a risk for both the baby and the mother that things may not go so well....
No natter how you look at it, child-birth is pretty dangerous no matter how the baby makes it way out. Both sides have their positives and negatives. But i guess that's just another reason why us women are so much better than men :D
Oh sooooooo true ;)
I had an elective c-section with DD. It was a fantastic birth, but hoping to have a VBAC when number 2 finally comes along :fingerscrossed: . Thats if I don't chicken out or be scared out of it!:o
Bec, just wondering, you might know the answer to this (I think you're also from WA?), but what/who are good organisations which support VBAC IYKWIM?
Ashleigh<3
19-10-2006, 02:22
excuse me for having faith in a womans ability to birth her baby :rolleyes:
I applaud your faith!
I just had a beautiful water birth! I did use the gas (don't know who considers that a drug exactly) I still felt all the pain.
But the important thing is I delivered my baby safely into this world! And I felt nothing but amazing after all of it. I'm still overwhelmed!
Bec, just wondering, you might know the answer to this (I think you're also from WA?), but what/who are good organisations which support VBAC IYKWIM?
:thumbsup: Birthrites :yes:
These gals were instrumental in supporting me with my HBA2C, God bless them manifold!!!
www.birthrites.org
There are support groups in different areas of Perth and other areas in WA, an email list, a forum, and tonnes of info and links to info.....its the best :D
I applaud your faith!
I just had a beautiful water birth! I did use the gas (don't know who considers that a drug exactly) I still felt all the pain.
But the important thing is I delivered my baby safely into this world! And I felt nothing but amazing after all of it. I'm still overwhelmed!
I had very bad self-image before my recent HBA2C....giving birth has made me, dare I say it....love myself, and I love being a woman, and feel so very priviledged to be a woman.....
It's mind blowing isnt it, giving birth.....our bodies are amazing.....dagnamit.....women are just so AMAZING - we are the best :smiliedance:
reAllytee
19-10-2006, 03:30
Interesting reading thanks Becca.
I unfortunately was one who had a vb but still had an injured baby & we were lucky to come out of it without him having erbs palsy.
There can be risks either way really like anything in life.
I had very bad self-image before my recent HBA2C....giving birth has made me, dare I say it....love myself, and I love being a woman, and feel so very priviledged to be a woman.....
It's mind blowing isnt it, giving birth.....our bodies are amazing.....dagnamit.....women are just so AMAZING - we are the best :smiliedance:
Becca, this is how birth made me feel as well :yes:
In no way is that meant to take away from anyone who may not have been able to birth that way or who had a negative experience, but I should be able to share how I feel about MY births as well, just like everyone else can, and mine made me feel that I was the most powerful, amazing woman and that I had become the member of some sort of exclusive, fabulous club :D
You are right woman ARE the best, and we ARE strong and its time more of us claimed this and started to have more faith in ourselves and our bodies.
Duchessa
19-10-2006, 07:20
Beautifully put, Coopsntilly :yes: The amazing heights our minds, spirits and bodies can achieve is amply demonstrated while giving birth. Women are amazing and the act of giving birth certainly helped me understand just how amazing...
Samantha... the list of injuries you put up wasn't entirely relevant to the topic of injuries to babies... I would certainly be horrified if my baby had a retained placenta :D
reAllytee
19-10-2006, 07:47
I would like to know the statistics in Oz about vb's maybe its because im half asleep but i can only seem to find American stats like :
Statistics show that approximately 27 of every 1000 births in the United States results in a birth injury. In the State of California there are approximately 1500 babies born each and every day. According to the statistics, 40 babies a day are born in California with some type of birth injury.
And the injuries i can find are :
A "birth injury" is defined as any type of damage to an infant's body before, during or just after birth. Complications in the process of pregnancy, labor and delivery can result in a wide variety of complications for a newborn baby. Birth injuries vary greatly - from very minor to being so severe as to cause the death of the infant.
Some common types of birth injuries include skin irritations; temporary paralysis; fractured collar bone; fractured arm; Cerebral Palsy; brain damage; Erb's Palsy and Brachial Plexus Palsy. The most serious birth injuries involve damage to the infant's brain, causing brain damage, traumatic brain injury, seizures and mental retardation. These brain injuries are caused by oxygen deprivation or bleeding inside the brain from trauma during pregnancy, labor or delivery.
Again im half asleep but thats pretty scary too if you ask me.
Actually puts me off having another altogether.
Duchessa
19-10-2006, 09:37
The second of my vag delivered twins had a compressed nerve in her face which gave her a small palsy for a couple of days - this was a direct result of having her little face squished by the high forceps used to drag her out...
It would be very interesting (and the topic of another thread) to look at the injury rate arising from inductions vs non induced vag births... I imagine, and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to ascertain, that it is intervention (which is so often the result of induction) that causes the vast majority of the injuries. Induction also produces its fair share of c/sects, so perhaps the biggest evil is induction in the light of foetal injuries? Yet another reason to avoid intervention/induction/csect IMO.
DD was another one of those statistics that were injured during my elective caesarean - just a small nick to the top of her forehead which you cant see now because of her hair.
However, its not about to stop me from having another elective caesarean.
There are risks everywhere.... And just because DD had a small injury when she was born, doesnt mean this bubba will be injured aswell..
I'd also like to compare baby injury stats in regards to induced/intervention/drugged births compared to non-intervention/homebirths......will have to do a bit of a google later, but my bubs is currently pooping into his nappy so will have to sort him out in a minute.
my son had shoulder & hip dystocia, which would have caused enormous panic in hospital - but at home I instinctively got into the gaskin maneauver, and although it took about 2-3 minutes between head delivering, shoulders delivering and hips delivering, he slipped out sweetly and gently and I didnt even need a stitch. My fear is that if I were in hospital, they'd have had me flat on my back, giving me an episiotomy and sticking either a ventouse or forceps up my fanny to get him out......no, actually, they'd have just wheeled me in and sliced open my belly again for no good reason.....
yep, I stayed home and both myself and my son avoided injury.....
the_queen
19-10-2006, 11:46
:yelclap: hooray for home birth!!!:yelclap:
I wonder if those American stats are so high (well they seem high to me) because America is still so obsessed with treating birth like you have a serious disease or something? Seriously every birth type show I watch on Austar that is American has all these woman having every sort of intervention known to man, and they spend their who labours flat on their backs, hooked up to machines, then, I kid you not, they get wheeled to an OPERATING theatre where their legs are put up in stirrups and with huge surgeon lights in their eyes they are forced to give birth that way. The 2 may not be connected at all of course, but it would be interesting to see if they are or not.
reAllytee
19-10-2006, 12:52
Oh Erin i agree that its probably nothing like ours or the likes im just interested in knowing all the stats side by side im just curious like that anyways im not trying to start a fight about vb vs c/s.
Becca knows her stuff so i always love reading what she has to say !
I think we all know there are higher risks with a c/s but after my experience im left wondering whats the greater evil for me personally.
cmd'smum
19-10-2006, 13:55
I wonder if those American stats are so high (well they seem high to me) because America is still so obsessed with treating birth like you have a serious disease or something? Seriously every birth type show I watch on Austar that is American has all these woman having every sort of intervention known to man, and they spend their who labours flat on their backs, hooked up to machines, then, I kid you not, they get wheeled to an OPERATING theatre where their legs are put up in stirrups and with huge surgeon lights in their eyes they are forced to give birth that way. The 2 may not be connected at all of course, but it would be interesting to see if they are or not.
I know what you mean Coops. I watch Maternity Ward and all the other birth/baby shows on Foxtel and 99% of women birth on their backs! :eek: Even if a woman has had an epi, isn't it possible to be helped up into a more comfortable position to push?:confused: Or i've heard that they can give you a light Epi so you have some sensation in your legs and can birth in a diff position to just lying on your back?
ShadyCharacter
19-10-2006, 14:35
Babies risk being injured on their "way out" whether it be via a vaginal birth or a c/section.... Giving birth to a baby is a HUGE event that we put our bodies through and whether it is by a vaginal birth, or by a c/section there's a risk for both the baby and the mother that things may not go so well....
There are many other injuries that a baby may suffer through a vaginal delivery, such as:
Shoulder Dystocia
Post Partum Hemorrhage
Premature Rupture of Membranes
Breech Delivery
Placental Abruption
Abnormal Presentation
Placenta Previa
Prolapsed Umbilical Cord
Group B Streptococcus
Cord Around the Neck
Chorioamnionitis
Retained Placenta
Post Partum FeverNo natter how you look at it, child-birth is pretty dangerous no matter how the baby makes it way out. Both sides have their positives and negatives. But i guess that's just another reason why us women are so much better than men :D
Without picking the list apart -
Post Partum Hemorrhage - Is no danger to a baby, it affects the mother only. It is also a potential complecation of both vaginal and cesarean deliveries.
Premature Rupture of Membrane - (PROM) refers to a patient who is beyond 37 weeks' gestation and has presented with rupture of membranes (ROM) prior to the onset of labor. If we call that a risk, it is a 'risk' of pregnancy, not of a vaginal birth.
Breech Delivery - Again, a 'risk' of pregnancy, not vaginal birth.
Placental Abruption - As above. Most certainly a risk, but a risk of pregnancy. Placental abruption is a condition in which the placenta partially to almost completely peels away from the uterine wall before delivery. It can occur any time after 20 weeks gestation. The cause of abruption is unknown, but high blood pressure, cocaine use, and cigarette smoking during pregnancy greatly increase your risk. Other factors that raise your chances of an abruption include trauma and abnormalities of the uterus or umbilical cord, and being over 35 years of age.
Abnormal Presentation - See Breech Presentation
Placenta Previa - Possible causes of placenta previa include a scarred endometrium (lining of the uterus), a large placenta, an abnormal uterus, or abnormal formation of the placenta. The incidence of placenta previa is approximately 1 out of 500 births.
Anyway, I could keep going, but do you see where I am going with this? Only a couple of the 'conditions' you have listed have anything to do with vaginal birth. Some of the conditions (such as Placenta Previa) would mean a c/section is recommended as IF you ALREADY had the condition, a vaginal birth could be dangerous. After all, that is what c/sections are there for. But they are not 'risks' of vaginal births.
Might be worth reading and understanding the evidence rather than just copying and pasting ;). You listed them as 'injuries a baby may suffer', when only one or two of them are.
Cheers,
SC
ShadyCharacter
19-10-2006, 14:44
Not sure either Martha, was deleting them as you did :o
SassyMummy
19-10-2006, 15:45
While I appreciate that some members find this thread offensive, could you not just ignore it? I mean, I don't really appreciate reading stories about wonderful c-secs, because I HATE mine and I'll even admit that I sometimes feel offended that women who had the opportunity to have a VB CHOOSE not to (only because I'm jealous).
My way of dealing with it? I just ignore those types of threads. Why can't women who are SECURE with the fact that they had a c-sec by choice just avoid topics which may suggest otherwise?
I'd also like to know why some people think the c-sec section of the forum should be devoted purely to those who WANT c-secs, or who have only positives to say?
I had an ELECTIVE c-section (unwanted mind you, but still classed as elective), and I HATED it. This is the only section of the forum devoted to c-sec, and IMO, it's for both negatives and positives, by those who have had c-secs, or those who are going to have them. Often you can tell by the title of the thread whether or not it's "for you"...so if you object to the overall subject matter, why enter it in the first place, let alone POST about how offended you are?
I think Becca is a FABULOUS member of the forum. She has a wealth of knowledge about C-secs, as well as VBACs... and a lot of her info is very useful.
The OP, in my opinion, was something to think about. Take from it what you will. She didn't say you're all wrong for having elective c-secs, or that VB/VBAC mothers are somehow "godlike". Nothing in any of her posts suggested that.
I'd also like to point out that, while some of the elective c-sec mums might be offended by some points of view not just in this thread, but in this section and expect some sensitivity in their direction, please also note that some of us who HAVE experienced c-secs are NOT happy with them and not satisfied with WHY we had them. Our negative feelings are just as valid and important as your positive ones.
We're not on different teams at all...aren't we all for having empowered birthing experiences? If, by members sharing my NEGATIVE experience, and sharing NEGATIVE information about c-secs helps another woman to AVOID an unwanted c-sec, then I'd be satisfied...just as if those who are HAPPY with their c-secs share their POSITIVE stories and info helps a woman to realise that a c-sec is best for her, then it's a great thing.
Don't crucify Becca for posting what she did - she posted info, then posted her feelings about it. You can't ARGUE with someone else's feelings, because they're not your own.
I think what SJ was trying to say that if you attempted vaginal delivery with the problems described you will have a high rate of complications arising from a vaginal birth.
E.g Placenta Previa and Breech, Cord around the neck (my sister died of this during a VB)
SJ Please correct me if wrong.
Honestly guys i really couldn't care less how someone birthed their baby as long as the mother and baby are healthy.
There are horror stories with VB's and Cesereans, so playing the statistic thing just doesn't work, as we all know statistics can be manipulated.
For me personally I had blinking awesome Vb's, 3 hour labour and no tearing!:) But i will not dismiss that cesereans are needed in certain births, sometimes it's a matter of life and death and i have seen those life and death situations.
My friend Had to have a Cesar at 38 weeks due to complications and because she felt assured and comforted by a c section she opted it for second time round, she had done alot of research and just didn't feel comfortable to go through a VB, So as her friend i supported her as it is a very personal thing, what she hated the most is having people ramming down her throat about C sections how she should be having a VBAC.
It is like religion If you are a christian you believe in GOd but there are so many Churches, so which do you follow, the one you are most comfortable with, in the end the choice is yours.
bekkyboo
19-10-2006, 15:55
Hmmmmmm....
I did choose to have G via C-section.
I had heart problems during the pregnancy but the doctors assured me that i could go ahead with a vaginal birth. We chose againist it. They assured me that G would be fine through the birth, but i was not sure about me - so yes - i was selfish and i opted out.
It was my choice - and I didnt want to risk my life (yes, i know that giving birth, either way, you are risking your life - I mean "right in the front of your mind" risk your life) - And it was my choice, no one elses, and i dont think anyone should be hounded for choosing it.
I was very well informed on my producure and im happy that i had it done.
SixtiesChild
19-10-2006, 16:05
I have had 2 c-sections which saved both my life and my baby’s.
(Ist baby had a slightly bruised arm & 2nd baby was perfectly fine.)
The way I see it is that everything in life has it’s risks. And nothing is ever guaranteed.
I've had a grade 4 placenta previa in which there was no exit for baby. :no: On top of this I have had severe pre-eclampsia. I was a walking time bomb that could have bled to death at any moment.
Let me say how elated I felt when a c-section was scheduled to save our lives and then when I held my much awaited baby finally.
I feel that chance also plays a part in any type of birth and that sometimes it is the complex personal circumstances of the mother that determine the outcome of how the baby is finally born.
If the outcome is c-section for a non- medical reason, why is it associated with ignorance and naivety ? Why always this?
I just think it’s not that simple because it is after all impossible to put ourselves in someone elses shoes even if our own experiences are vast.
I think my 1st c-section ("failure to progress") possibly could have been avoided. I had been attending hynotherapy birthing classes and getting ready for it all but hey, My dad suddenly got killed in a gas explosion (Sorry tmi) when I was eight and a half months preganant and lo and behold I wasn't focussed for birth- I don't know what happened but I couldn't control my grief and this changed everything from deep within. I just know that this event changed everything for me and possibly lead to my having a c-section. Now, I don't consider this is a medical reason so I do experience some guilt when people talk about others who have c-sections for no reason. You see there might be more to it than we know.
There is an older woman I know of who has three girls, the 1st by c-section, then a successful vbac, then another c-section, when she found that she was pregnant for the fourth time she was determined to have another natural birth. (Which I can appreciate) But unfortunately the baby got stuck during the birth (I don’t know why), and the mother in her sheer determination wanted to keep going but sadly it was too late to do anything about it and the baby died. :gloomy: This baby was her only son. Perhaps the statistics for this aren’t as high, but these things do happen as well & it happened to this person.
Becca,
I must say that You are very fortunate and blessed to have 4 beautiful children as well as gained such a variety of experiences and it is thoughtful of you to be sharing them and encouraging other women because it may make a difference to someone.:thumbsup:
I don't want to discourage you in any way,
I just think that not all who don't have the information to achieve a vb are naive and so perhaps it is something else that we can't see.
SamanthaJane
19-10-2006, 16:08
I think what SJ was trying to say that if you attempted vaginal delivery with the problems described you will have a high rate of complications arising from a vaginal birth.
E.g Placenta Previa and Breech, Cord around the neck (my sister died of this during a VB)
SJ Please correct me if wrong.
:yes: Thanks Candyn
ShadyCharacter -That is how i quoted the list from another website, i wasn't going to edit what they wrote - it was a direct quote :rolleyes: Perhaps you could read this line again, which is what i posted right before i posted the quote
there's a risk for both the baby and the mother that things may not go so well which to me, is stating my understanding that the list below is a list of complications that could occur for the delivery/mother/baby.
As you said, it might be worth reading and understanding MY post before attacking it ;)
MrsMiggins
19-10-2006, 16:18
Just a reminder that the original topic of this post was about a study into the injury rate to babies born via c/s - this thread is not for debating the pros & cons of elective/chosen/medically necessary c/s vs VB.
Please keep posts to the original topic, thanks! :)
bekkyboo
19-10-2006, 16:19
C-section G, had some mucus still - that was his only problem due to the c-section birth.
C-section G, had some mucus still - that was his only problem due to the c-section birth.
Ozzy had a bit of a mucous problem too! That was his only complication from the c-section also - though I can't say I was complication free:no:
Goosie22
19-10-2006, 17:24
there's a risk for both the baby and the mother that things may not go so well....
And they have the potential to not go so well, even more if you opt for an elective C/S.
Great info:thumbsup: .
Ashleigh<3
19-10-2006, 17:25
I had very bad self-image before my recent HBA2C....giving birth has made me, dare I say it....love myself, and I love being a woman, and feel so very priviledged to be a woman.....
It's mind blowing isnt it, giving birth.....our bodies are amazing.....dagnamit.....women are just so AMAZING - we are the best :smiliedance:
:D I couldn't agree more!
Women OWN! :yes:
ShadyCharacter
19-10-2006, 17:27
ShadyCharacter -That is how i quoted the list from another website, i wasn't going to edit what they wrote - it was a direct quote :rolleyes: Perhaps you could read this line again, which is what i posted right before i posted the quote which to me, is stating my understanding that the list below is a list of complications that could occur for the delivery/mother/baby.
As you said, it might be worth reading and understanding MY post before attacking it ;)
Ok, so the information you quoted from the site you cut and pasted from was wrong. This thread is about the risks of c/sections. You posted that list as possible complications of vaginal births. They are not, they are complications of pregnancy, SOME of which would mean a c/section is necessary. No-one here is saying that c/sections are never necessary.
And nope, the line above the list (that you asked me to reread and understand) did not say "is stating my understanding that the list below is a list of complications that could occur for the delivery/mother/baby. "
It said, There are many other injuries that a baby may suffer through a vaginal delivery, such as:" so I don't think I need to reread it. It is incorrect information. Would you mind posting the link where the information came from? I would be interested in reading the whole article :)
Cheers,
SC
i think its great if becca wants to find all these articles so they are there for those who want to read every thing they can but just because you say , hang on now sure there are risks with c/sections but there are risks with vb too, does not mean you are offended by the article or you want to dismiss wat becca is saying. it just means others are bringing their experiences / ideas to the post as there is always 2 sides to the coin. im having a c/section on monday (if i make it that long lol) and yes i am sh1t scared. i KNOW things can go wrong, as can go wrong with vb. a) i wish this section could be more positive for those who HAVE to have c/sections or even for those who WANT c/sections and b) i wish it would always stop ended up with either"well i had a bad c/section therefore" or "i had a great c/section therefore" . the negativity of all these statistics is getting to me so i will choose not to read these articles...but thats me :cool:
SamanthaJane
19-10-2006, 18:38
Ok, so the information you quoted from the site you cut and pasted from was wrong. This thread is about the risks of c/sections. You posted that list as possible complications of vaginal births. They are not, they are complications of pregnancy, SOME of which would mean a c/section is necessary. No-one here is saying that c/sections are never necessary.
And nope, the line above the list (that you asked me to reread and understand) did not say "is stating my understanding that the list below is a list of complications that could occur for the delivery/mother/baby. "
It said, There are many other injuries that a baby may suffer through a vaginal delivery, such as:" so I don't think I need to reread it. It is incorrect information. Would you mind posting the link where the information came from? I would be interested in reading the whole article :)
Cheers,
SC
I was stating that there are risks from both, not just from elective c/sections. Read all the other threads on this forum, how many of them actually stick to the thread topic? If a mod agrees with you that my post was irrelevant in this thread, then please mod, delete it so i can stop being attacked. I was just posting what i thought was a relevant post at the time :mad:
SJ, what you posted, ie. the way it was worded was an incorrect statement. No point getting huffy at ShadyCharacter for simply pointing that out. If your post was cut and pasted from another website, then that website worded their information poorly. I don't see ShadyCharacter stating that your post doesn't belong here - she is simply stating that what you have posted is not factual.
As she said, many of those things on your list are risks of pregnancy which may preclude a person from having a vaginal birth. They are not things that can go wrong with a vaginal birth. Do you understand the difference?
Worm'sMum
19-10-2006, 19:09
While I think it is great that everyone wants to help each other make informed decisions on their babies birth etc, I think if you are going to have statistics on one side their should also be statistics for the other so we can compare fairly.My DD was born emergency c/section and I'm leaning more towards #2 being an elective c/section I have read many articles as I sure most women about to give birth would read up on. For me the decision comes down to how I feel most confident when it comes to giving birth. I'm not going into this eyes closed thinking that it's the easy way out or selfish etc....I've been there before, so I know it's not the case.
Maybe it's just me, but I would also have thought the the 'ceasarean' section of this forum was actually FOR ceaserean's and with as much positive information as possible. I have had a look at the 'VBAC' sections as well to make sure my information is well informed but I really think we should focus on the positives for ceasareans. Some women may find making the decison for ceasareans very daunting and scary and I really think they need all the SUPPORT they can get. While it's great to have your opinion along with the statistics it did come a little bit across as if people who have electives were selfish etc. I think some women really don't need to think that people may think that of them.
SamanthaJane
19-10-2006, 19:10
This thread is about the risks of c/sections. You posted that list as possible complications of vaginal births.
Cosmic - To me that points out that ShadyCharacter saw my post as irrelevant.
But fair enough, we all interpret things in different ways.
And yes, the website did word their information incorrectly.... but my words posted were talking about the complications of vaginal births as a whole, not just as a danger to the baby.
Just to make it clear - im not in any way saying a vb is more dangerous than a c/section (whether it be elective or emergency) i was simply saying that childbirth and pregnancy as a whole is a HUGE risk to our bodies, and that no matter how a child is born there are risks and problems involved.
SJ, I understood what you meant completely. I think most probably did but they are just nit picking because you don't agree with them.:thumbsup:
BTW, great post worms mum.
melfunction
19-10-2006, 19:38
Personally, I'm not a great believer in statistics. I prefer to go on information about births from people whom I know and can be sure they are not trying to scare anyone.
Was I nitpicking? I thought I was just clarifying!!
And for the record, my daughter was delivered by C-section. Certainly it wouldn't have been my first choice (far from it) but I believe there's a chance she wouldn't be here, had I not had the option of a caesarean delivery... so I'm not here to knock c-sections - I don't think anyone is.
On the other hand, I believe there is significant research to indicate that a normal, vaginal delivery is by far the safer option for mum and bub when it is possible and that Becca's article is just providing more information to support that fact. :)
You want to see C/section risks read my birth story:laughing:
but if I have another one well it will be much better like Melfunction I like to go by people I read about not stats!
reAllytee
19-10-2006, 19:48
Personally, I'm not a great believer in statistics. I prefer to go on information about births from people whom I know and can be sure they are not trying to scare anyone.
Totally agree !
As i said earlier with everything i went through for my vb & reading some of the horror stories of c/s im quite put off having another ... Yet i have this yearning ... Im a glutton for punishment it seems :rolleyes:
melfunction
19-10-2006, 19:49
So, going by people whom I know, 3 of them this year who more than likely read this :wave: had horrific c/s experiences. That alone is enough for me to be oh so grateful I had an almost textbook VB.
Each one of those 3 people, are damn lucky to be here and are even more lucky their beautiful babies are here safe and sound.
Ally, there's no reason to think your next birth will be anything like your first. At least that's what I'm telling myself, otherwise I'd never go back for another one either! ;)
reAllytee
19-10-2006, 20:00
Ally, there's no reason to think your next birth will be anything like your first. At least that's what I'm telling myself, otherwise I'd never go back for another one either! ;)
I know but the thought is scary iykwim.
Im totally preparing myself before i fall pg & will continue to do so while i am but my goodness i can honestly say i feel sick to my stomach either way !
The other thing that petrifies me is that Pixie could have easily been me but gosh she has been wonderful with her support :hugs:
ShadyCharacter
19-10-2006, 22:05
SJ, I understood what you meant completely. I think most probably did but they are just nit picking because you don't agree with them.:thumbsup:
BTW, great post worms mum.
Actually Natasha, I don't agree with the information SamanthaJane copied from a website, not any personal opinion she stated.
but my words posted were talking about the complications of vaginal births as a whole
Again, I think you are misunderstanding what I was pointing out - they were not complications that possibly result from vaginal birth (with the exception of one or two), they were complications that possibly result from pregnancy in the first place. If you are going to hemmorhage, it can be after a vaginal birth OR a c/section. If your baby is breech, it is going to be breech regardless of how you give birth, if your waters break early, they are going to break regardless of how you intend to give birth.
Like I said, I was disagreeing with the website, not anything you said. I don't think your contribution is irrelevant, I think the pasting of information is irrelevant if it is incorrect. I asked before, but could I please have a link for the site? I would love to read the entire article.
Cheers,
SC
Yasmeena
19-10-2006, 22:05
Personally, I'm not a great believer in statistics. I prefer to go on information about births from people whom I know and can be sure they are not trying to scare anyone.
I also prefer circumstantial and subjective anecdotes to 'facts' and 'statistics' .
You never know where some people get their 'facts' from!:eek:
SamanthaJane
19-10-2006, 23:49
Again, I think you are misunderstanding what I was pointing out - they were not complications that possibly result from vaginal birth (with the exception of one or two), they were complications that possibly result from pregnancy in the first place. If you are going to hemmorhage, it can be after a vaginal birth OR a c/section. If your baby is breech, it is going to be breech regardless of how you give birth, if your waters break early, they are going to break regardless of how you intend to give birth.
Okay, looks to me like you are still misunderstanding my post. I was not saying Heres a heap of things that could happen occur during a vaginal delivery, but none of these things could happen in a c/section delivery I was saying, like my post says, that there are risks and problems involved in both types of deliveries. Yes i realise the quote isn't right, but i DO say that problems can occur through BOTH types of deliveries in my post.
And i have no idea what that website was. Maybe if you google problems during birth or something along those lines you could find it for yourself.
Oh and I DO realise that some of those problems OBVIOUSLY occur during pregnancy and not during birth... :rolleyes:
Babies risk being injured on their "way out" whether it be via a vaginal birth or a c/section.... Giving birth to a baby is a HUGE event that we put our bodies through and whether it is by a vaginal birth, or by a c/section there's a risk for both the baby and the mother that things may not go so well....
No natter how you look at it, child-birth is pretty dangerous no matter how the baby makes it way out. Both sides have their positives and negatives. But i guess that's just another reason why us women are so much better than men :D
Does that not say that i realise problems happen through both types of delivery???
Pippi Longstocking
20-10-2006, 06:48
SJ, I too was curious to read the original article you quoted from and have googled the exact text, with no results :confused: .
I am also perplexed at people's apparent defensive reaction when faced with articles such as these. Caesereans are inherently more risky than VB. It really is an undebatable fact. Sometimes, caesereans are necessary to save either or both the mother and bay's lives. They are a fantastic option when the other alternative is death or injury.
But if perfectly healthy women are going to have perfectly healthy babies surgically removed, they need to know the risks! Simply putting hands over the ears and chanting "lalalala" does not make the procedure less risky. Having my baby's face sliced open with a scalpel is a risk I'd want to be prepared for. :eek:
I had very bad self-image before my recent HBA2C....giving birth has made me, dare I say it....love myself, and I love being a woman, and feel so very priviledged to be a woman.....
It's mind blowing isnt it, giving birth.....our bodies are amazing.....dagnamit.....women are just so AMAZING - we are the best :smiliedance:
Like Coops said, every woman should feel this regardless of how they delivered their child/ren.
I had cesars both times, but I felt nothing but proud of my body and amazed at what my body had produced.
My body sacrificed itself through both of my pregnancies, to ensure that my babies were still being provided with everything they needed to develop and grow. :D
The human body IS amazing. Especially when you know that in embryology, there is actually a 1000 time more chance of something going wrong during fertilisation and development, than going 100% to "plan".
IMO reproduction is the miracle, the delivery is just the beginning of the next phase. As long as the mother and baby are healthy at the end of the delivery, regardless of method, all involved should be elated!
Wounds to the skin accounted for more than half of the injuries. The next most common injury was severe bruising of the head, followed by broken collarbone, facial nerve da mage, injury to the chest-arm nerve network, and skull fracture. In women with a first-time c-section as well as those who had previously undergone the procedure, the highest rate of fetal injury occurred following an attempt to deliver through the birth canal using forceps or vacuum.
Becca,
Thanks for all your info - as usual it is very helpful!
What would be VERY interesting to know about the c-sections performed after a failed attempt to help the baby out by forceps or vacuum is what came BEFORE that.....ie...was the mum induced, did she have an epidural, did this contribute by making her unable to feel to push effectively?
IMO it is all the intervention that is heaped on the mother which then LEADS to the c-section that needs to be avoided.
Perhaps another way of looking at it would be that it is the "cascade of intervention" resulting in a c-section that is responsible for the higher rate of these injuries?
Unless there is very clear medical indication that it is needed, I would certainly be saying NO to a c-section but I think it also really important to say NO to an induction and NO to an epidural.
Just also wanted to make a comment because it has been mentioned a couple of times....
I really feel we would be doing each other a big disservice if this section only contained "positive" stories and information. Imagine if it was you, that came to this forum to find out information about caesareans, made your decision based on all the "positive" stories and then suffered from one of the possible complications?
God knows the medical fraternity does it's very best to keep information from us so I really feel that women have a duty to share information with each other - good, bad and ugly.
It is important to note that the threads in the "Birth and Labour" and "Natural Birth" sections are not all "positive" either - and neither should they be.
I absolutely agree that information is power. 1 in 3 Aussie women suffers from birth trauma - disgraceful. By sharing information we can do our bit to reduce these numbers.
Worm'sMum
20-10-2006, 14:21
I also agree that we should all in well informed, but I have noticed with a couple of threads that women who choose to have c/sections it is automatically assumed that they don't know the risks...we are not all completely naive. I also think that women should make their decisions based on facts and how they feel, not based on what other people think is a right or wrong decison. I think this thread had all good intentions of starting out this way, but didn't quite happen. Every single birth is different and it is unfair to state that women shouldn't have a ceasarean unless it is life or death. There are many other reasons for women to choose how they are going to have their babies and yes they should be well informed of both ways but they should also not be judged.
I know a lady who was so set on having a VB and that there was no other way she would even contemplate having a ceasar that she actually refused when the doc said they would have to do it, and as a result sadly her baby died. She said she felt so much pressure about unnecessary intervention, ceasareans etc that she thought she was doing the right thing. I would just hate for someone to make a decision - whatever that may be - based on what other people believe is right. We are individuals and so are our birthing experiences, no one has the right to judge our birthing decisions except ourselves.
cmd'smum
20-10-2006, 15:18
On the other hand, I believe there is significant research to indicate that a normal, vaginal delivery is by far the safer option for mum and bub when it is possible and that Becca's article is just providing more information to support that fact.
Cos, not attacking you, but reading and speaking to OBs they actually don't agree. They think that in practice, both forms of delivery can be risky. Doesn't mean that if a VB is possible its safer. Thats just my understanding from speaking to individuals (and no they arn't C-section happy Obs). I guess, everything you do in life is a risk in some way!
Well said Worm's Mum. I think intentions do start out well to show both side of C-sections, but I think that sometimes more of an 'anti-elective c-section' message comes through. I would hate to think that on other threads there would be a feeling of 'anti-VB or anti-waterbirth or anti-home birth' vibe. (Which there may well be - I don't read those ones a lot I must admit!)
I think it is important to know all the facts, but sometimes the facts seem to just be presented to scare people as opposed to providing impartial information.
While it is easy to say people should be proud of how they give birth whichever way they choose, it is hard not to be sensitive to certain comments. After all - especially as new mums or mums-to-be, we all have so many more emotions and hormones then we are used to!
A lot of the midwives gave me disapproving looks when I told them I had an elective c-section, but then when the saw the size of my DS compared to the size of me they all said 'thank goodness you had a c-section!'
I am curious though - I have forgotten where the information the OP posted came from, (baby brain! LOL) - are these statistics from an Australian study? I can only ever find information from the US, UK and so on but no good Australian studies..
cmd'smum
20-10-2006, 15:26
I also agree that we should all in well informed, but I have noticed with a couple of threads that women who choose to have c/sections it is automatically assumed that they don't know the risks...we are not all completely naive. I also think that women should make their decisions based on facts and how they feel, not based on what other people think is a right or wrong decison. I think this thread had all good intentions of starting out this way, but didn't quite happen. Every single birth is different and it is unfair to state that women shouldn't have a ceasarean unless it is life or death. There are many other reasons for women to choose how they are going to have their babies and yes they should be well informed of both ways but they should also not be judged.
I know a lady who was so set on having a VB and that there was no other way she would even contemplate having a ceasar that she actually refused when the doc said they would have to do it, and as a result sadly her baby died. She said she felt so much pressure about unnecessary intervention, ceasareans etc that she thought she was doing the right thing. I would just hate for someone to make a decision - whatever that may be - based on what other people believe is right. We are individuals and so are our birthing experiences, no one has the right to judge our birthing decisions except ourselves.
Well put :yes: I chose an elective C-Section, not because of medical emergency but because I was told my baby was huge and her shoulders could get stuck. I was like :eek: Plus the same thing happened with my mum when in labour with me, my head would'nt fit! so I thought.....ahhh ahhh :shame: not going down that path. My baby WAS'NT huge so I'm going to attempt a VBAC next time, fingerscrossed. I just think it all boils down to what is best for the individual woman and baby in their situation, not necessarily one type of birth better than the other IYKWIM. Thanks, thats my 2cents!:D
Duchessa
22-10-2006, 12:53
I really feel we would be doing each other a big disservice if this section only contained "positive" stories and information. Imagine if it was you, that came to this forum to find out information about caesareans, made your decision based on all the "positive" stories and then suffered from one of the possible complications?
I thoroughly agree, Tracie. It just so important to be informed of both - or rather ALL sides (it doesn't have to be polarised into pro/anti at all, to do so completely misses the point of these discussions IMO). :thumbsup:
I also agree that we should all in well informed, but I have noticed with a couple of threads that women who choose to have c/sections it is automatically assumed that they don't know the risks...we are not all completely naive.
If you are informed and you feel a post/thread is assuming that you are not, then I guess you could safely assume that its not directed at you. Single posts can't really speak to everyone and their various levels of knowledge. ie when someone mentions the ol' "cascade of intervention" and then explains it, I don't need to feel like that poster thinks I'm an idiot... I understand that the explanation is for those people reading it who don't understand the concept.
SassyMummy
22-10-2006, 16:01
I agree that there has to be a mixture of both negative, positive and neutral stories, advice and information regarding c-secs in this section of the forum. Otherwise, it would be incredibly misleading.
Not everyone reads up on the type of birth they think they are going to have...and even if they do, they might only read a little on it (like I did, when I thought i was going to have VB).
Real-Life experience is great...and that's why I find the forum invaluable. Of course, medical-based info is also very useful when trying to sort out fact from fiction, and when trying to find evidence to support your case (no matter what type of birth you want).
I don't like that some feel that this c-sec section of the forum should be positive-only... because c-secs AREN'T only positive (same as all other types of births). As a "victim" of an unwanted c-sec, it would hurt me that much more to come here and realise that there's no place I can come and talk about my negative c-sec experience, or where I can point out "the other side" to women considering c-secs, as a warning so they don't repeat MY birth... so I think that's this section is good how it is now - about the negative, positive and neutral sides to c-secs.
I'm not anti-c-sec or pro-vb...I'm pro-empowered birth. IMO though, the only way to have an empowered birth is to be fully aware of what you're getting yourself into. Hopefully this section has made many women aware of BOTH sides of it all.
MrsMiggins
22-10-2006, 16:12
Good point guys.
I feel that the c/s area of the forums is for mums/dads to come who want info & experiences on giving birth via c/s - for whatever reason.
It's good to hear as much info as possible - the good, the bad & the ugly, but in saying that, no-one should ever be made to feel guilty or "selfish" for going down the c/s path - either by choice or through having no other options.
I'd like to think that people can come here for info and post their own questions or experiences and feel confident that they will not receive any negativity in return. :thumbsup:
SorenLorensen
23-10-2006, 23:19
Thought i would put my 2 cents in
i went into the hospital with everything set in my mind as to how everything would go but i was so wrong after 28 hours, being 2 weeks over due, and less than 3 cm, i was begging for a c/s.
lucky me as DD head was tilted the wrong way and she was trying to come out with her face instead of the top of her head. i also have gotten my mothers hips and have a very slim chance of getting a baby out (never if they all come out 9 pound 7). i was glad i had one
BUT i think people wouuld really have to think about it hard as to how much goes on after, 1. i saw my DD for 2 min then had to go to recovery and she was wisked up stairs away from me and as she had a few problems i did not see her for 5 hours, 2. the next day you can hardly move and are scared sh**less that your going to pop open, 3. you cant drive or lift anything heavier than your baby for 6 weeks, 4. my DD is 15 months and i am only just starting to be able to get all feeling back around the scar and sometimes it itches
and so much more
mind you i have so much respect for people who did not have a c/s MY GOD THAT WOULD HAVE HURT
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