Is any kind of drug when giving birth considered natural?

[Caithi]

Ok,

After a great read in another thread I am still confused.:eek:

If you have gas is it or isnt it a natural birth?:thumbsup:

Just curious.:yelclap: :hugs:

[drewid]

In my mind, I consider 'gas' to come under the broad title of 'drug/medicinal pain relief'...I do consider it to be an intervention that eases the pain (or perception of) pain...

I tend to think that a natural birth is one without ANY intervention-y pain relief such as gas, epidural, tens etc.

The way I look at it, if it isn't something that I would use at home to ease, say, period pain, then it would be a non-natural birth. So..I would say that back rubs, warm showers, panadol etc would not exclude you from having a natural birth.

I hope that makes sense - its late!

I suppose it is a little pet peeve of mine (well..not really...but a little teeny bit) when women say that they had a 'natural' birth, but had gas. I guess I might be prickly about that because I had a 'natural' birth without gas. :o

It is interesting to find out the different opinions we all have on the matter :)

[jess_live_die]

i think most are. i did my 2nd birth without anything put a big smile on my face.:laughing:

[Caithi]

In my mind, I consider 'gas' to come under the broad title of 'drug/medicinal pain relief'...I do consider it to be an intervention that eases the pain (or perception of) pain...

I tend to think that a natural birth is one without ANY intervention-y pain relief such as gas, epidural, tens etc.

I agree - this may also be because I cant have gas or peth as I am VERY allergic to everything :laughing: but it peeves me off that my SIL says she had a natural birth when she sucked down gas like there was no tomorrow and had peth?:banghead: This may also be the reason! :laughing:

No juding anyone out there who thinks diff, its JMO.

Personally I have no idea as this is my first and wont hate myself if I need smething, I just want to clarify in my mind what Pain Free is.:thumbsup:

[Little Gorilla]

i think it all depends - i had the gas...and I was breathing it in..however, they forgot to turn it on until about 30 mins before I delivered....so really, I don't think I had any pain relief as I was sucking on thin air for most of the time.

its a tricky question though.

[SamanthaJane]

I always thought a full-on natural birth meant noooooo pain relief at all

I seriously bow down to all those women who do it with zero pain relief... my goodness, i wish i was that strong :smiliedance: :yelclap:

[Faeml]

Guess it depends on how you define "Natural"

For many people it is the antonym of "caesarean" - so as long as the baby comes out the exhaust and not the sunroof, then it's a natural birth, including the use of gas etc.

Just my way of thinking about it, I think gas would fall under the 'natural' category as it's non-invasive (ie, it's not given via a needle etc) but something like pethadine or spinal block is 'not natural'

[*~alegna~*]

- so as long as the baby comes out the exhaust and not the sunroof, then it's a natural birth

:laughing: OMG!...How funny! - I agree I consider gas natural

[*~alegna~*]

I always thought a full-on natural birth meant noooooo pain relief at all

I seriously bow down to all those women who do it with zero pain relief... my goodness, i wish i was that strong :smiliedance: :yelclap:

You CAN be that strong, believe me another person will rear its ugly head when your in the throws of it:laughing: .......You do what your comfortable with, just keep your options open...:hugs: Not long to go now!

[FourAngelKisses]

Gas doesn't actually help with the pain, I even had a midwife tell me that. It just helps you concentrate on your breathing, which relaxes you and helps with the pain. So in my opinion, if you have gas only, you still have a natural birth.

[Miaow]

Gas doesn't actually help with the pain, I even had a midwife tell me that. It just helps you concentrate on your breathing, which relaxes you and helps with the pain. So in my opinion, if you have gas only, you still have a natural birth.

Agree there about the gas not helping the pain - thats all I had cause EJ was so fast it was too late for anything etc.

I'd consider a birth natural more if there was no intervention like forceps/vacum/caesar etc

[shed]

I had the gas and my birth has been called a natural birth by the midwives and everyone else, so I would say that using the gas means its still natural.

I guess the gas isn't considered to be pain relief because its non invasive and doesn't cross the placenta to the baby or last long.

Or relieve the pain for that matter LOL!! I'm still having it next time though. If it crossed to the baby I wouldn't use it.

[Goosie22]

I voted NO.

Natural is Natural anything that is not Natural durring the process stops the birth from being natural. The perinatal Data form has it as non instrumental vaginal birth.

Inductions
Augmentation (speeding things up)
Drugs (Nitrous oxide (http://www.birthinternational.com/articles/andrea27.html) which is the gas)
forceps/suction
formula feeding

[CrazyBeautiful]

I consider any VB to be natural, whether the mother has gas, Pethidine or whatever.

[spiritedfamily]

I found this definition in Google search and this best describes Natural birth for me

Natural childbirth - labour and childbirth without medical intervention; no drugs are given to relieve pain or aid the birth process; "natural childbirth is considered the safest for the baby"

The natural childbirth technique attempts to minimize medical intervention, particularly anaesthetics (http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Anaesthetic), during childbirth (http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Childbirth). Proponents advocate that anaesthetics may increase the likelihood of complications, because labour may be slowed or the woman may not be able to adequately direct her body to push properly during final delivery. They also note that many pain medications cross the placenta (http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Placenta) and medicate the newborn, leading to less alertness shortly after birth, which may in turn reduce the chances of successful breastfeeding (http://dictionary.laborlawtalk.com/Breastfeeding).

[Seekrit]

The way I look at it, if it isn't something that I would use at home to ease, say, period pain, then it would be a non-natural birth. So..I would say that back rubs, warm showers, panadol etc would not exclude you from having a natural birth.

*laughs* I can imagine women walking down the street for one week a month sucking on a gas=pack that's strapped to their back.

I voted yes, because it served no pain relief, but it allowed me to focus on my breathing with each contraction and visualise the contractions' ebb and flow.

[cheezelkat]

I voted yes, because it was non-invasive. Anything else, like pethidine, isn't natural IMO.

[BabyJoy]

I agree with Cheezelkat.. voted yes. It's still a natural birth IMO if you use gas.

But this is a really interesting thread and made me rethink my birth experience. I had always thought I had a "natural" birth because I didn't have any drugs - I used the gas a few times, but it didn't have any effect so I only had hot towels, the shower and back massage for pain relief. I thought that drug-free meant natural.
But then I have read some comments in this thread about intervention and I'm confused about whether I had a natural birth or not. During labour my contractions stopped, so I had to have a dose of syntosin (can't spell) and then my baby's head got stuck, so they had to use the ventouse (but that didn't work, so in the end my own strength in pushing got her out).
So even though I had a boost of drugs to get my contractions going again, and even though they tried using the ventouse (and it didn't help) I STILL consider the experience as being a natural birth because I felt everything that was going on, and I DID ALL THE WORK!! :D

IMO, it's not natural if you have an epidural or if you have drugs for pain relief (so you don't feel contractions as much) or if you have a c-section. But I can certainly see how other people's opinions on this subject are different. It probably depends on each individual birth experience.

[DoubleAce]

I think it all depends on the individual as to what they perceive as natural. When people ask me about my birth story I always tell them I was in labour for 14 hours and only had gas for 2 of those. That way people can make up their own mind.

I say that I had a natural birth...to me a natural birth is when you don't have anything to relieve pain. Gas doesn't relieve pain. If you have forceps etc. without pethedine/epi then I say it's a natural birth still.

Others say that a natural birth is only when there are no interventions what so ever.....no drugs to relive pain, no gas, no epi/peth, no forceps/vacuum and no injection to help the placenta along.

In saying all of this, I have decided that I don't want gas with any future labours (even though I loved it with DD's birth) and then I'll be telling people I had a natural labour with no drugs at all.

I'm not voting cause I don't have a clear cut answer in my mind.

The people that annoy me are the one's that say that they practically had a natural labour cause their epidural didn't take fully and only partially numbed them. Sorry but that is not a natural labour, not even close!

[Caithi]

If gas doesnt relieve the pain and it makes you concentrate on breathing then why not just focus on your breathing with no gas?:thumbsup:
That comes out sounding awful, sorry. Its meant to be a genuine q. :yes:

[AM]

I feel gas is definitely an artificial helper in birth, so I voted no.

[goose]

If gas doesnt relieve the pain and it makes you concentrate on breathing then why not just focus on your breathing with no gas?:thumbsup:
That comes out sounding awful, sorry. Its meant to be a genuine q. :yes:

wait till you try it... much easier said than done... :rolleyes:

its easy to say concentrate on breathing but not easy to do in the situation.. but when given a task ie to make the gas thingy rattle as i breathed through it well then i was focused and determined to make that damn thing rattle.. ( hope that makes sense )
IMO i had a natural birth.. i had my baby the natural way (v/b) and I did all the hard work and went through all the pain... i did have gas for the last hour or so.. but still felt everything and done everything my self... ( in saying that every birth is a miracle no matter how bubs comes into the world and what methods were used to acheive it )

[AM]

If gas doesnt relieve the pain and it makes you concentrate on breathing then why not just focus on your breathing with no gas?:thumbsup:
That comes out sounding awful, sorry. Its meant to be a genuine q. :yes:

I remember my sister using gas, and it just made her sick, I have to ask, WHY do you need to concentrate on breathing? I thought it was an automatic reflex we are born with...:detective:

I never tried to alter my breathing at all, everything in me was focussed on meditatively relaxing my whole body in between contractions.

[OopsieDaisy]

I'd say no it isn't a natural birth...

[mum2elouise]

I consider a absolute drug free (no gas, peth or epidural) birth a natural one. JMO.

Any type of intervention, to me, is considered not giving birth naturally.

Though, i know a few people that class 'natural birth' as vaginal birth, as in "not c-section'. HTH...

[Caithi]

I thought it was an automatic reflex we are born with...:detective:

Hmmmmmmmmmm lol yes! Thats the obvious lol

If you read the posts people say that sucking on the gas with the rattle sound helped them to concentrate on it as opposed to being a pain relief!:thumbsup:

[mum23girls]

I thought there was "natural" and "c-section" births
Did you have bub naturally - Yes - meaning it was not a c-section (I will go climb back under my rock now!)

With regards to breathing, it did not come natural for me while in childbirth for DD 1 & 2 but DD3 I did it properly and breathed her out, and that was fantastic!!

[Rainbowbrite]

I was told by the midwives that they considered MJs birth as "natural." I had gas through the labour, BUT didnt have it for the last 90minutes. So had it for labour, but not for delivery.

[Rainbowbrite]

I thought there was "natural" and "c-section" births
Did you have bub naturally - Yes - meaning it was not a c-section (I will go climb back under my rock now!)

I think your confusing Natural with Vaginal. There's VB - vaginal birth & CS - c-section :)

[shed]

If gas doesnt relieve the pain and it makes you concentrate on breathing then why not just focus on your breathing with no gas?:thumbsup:
That comes out sounding awful, sorry. Its meant to be a genuine q. :yes:

Just in CASE it is actually doing something LOL.

[Seekrit]

I remember my sister using gas, and it just made her sick, I have to ask, WHY do you need to concentrate on breathing? I thought it was an automatic reflex we are born with...:detective:

Another natural reflex... or at least for me... is to hold my breath when in situations of fear/pain. (like when I'm exercising hah! fear AND pain combined!)

If gas doesnt relieve the pain and it makes you concentrate on breathing then why not just focus on your breathing with no gas?:thumbsup:
That comes out sounding awful, sorry. Its meant to be a genuine q. :yes:

the rattle! OH the rattle. As long as I heard that rattle my life was complete and the world was a wonderful place.
Also something to bite on (it's like a scuba mouth piece) and something to squeeze the living **** out of.

And as Shed said.. just in case LOL.

[DoubleAce]

I had the gas for the last two hours, before pushing (for 2 hours). I had the gas because I lost my focus and wanted it just to gain my focus back. I had been vomiting so all breathing techniques went out the window. Now I look back and realise it was the beginning of my transition and that I was more focused than I thought at the time...hence my reason for not wanting it next time.

[FourAngelKisses]

I found I was panicking and hyperventilating when not using the gas. making the thing rattle gave me something else to concentrate on rather than the pain and I ended up more relaxed.

[Oscar's mum]

If you have gas I don't think it is a natural birth:no:

[DoulaFelicity]

No, I don't consider a birth where gas has been used to be natural (though I used to - I've reflected on and expanded my view over the past year or so). Natural means the woman just gives birth, baby comes out vagina, baby goes to breast. No artificial rupture of membranes, no forceps, no ventouse, no gas, no pethidine, no syntocin, no epidural, etc. I think that in our society birth with these things included routinely has become normal (ie: the norm, the most commonly travelled path), but that is a different thing to natural. It also doesn't invalidate whatever effort the Mother put into the birth, to point out that having gas is not natural - of course, the Mother probably still worked very hard. It's just an observation (to some, a fact), not a judgement. :)

We can travel even further than this and ask, is giving birth in Hospital natural? Is it natural to be coached in labour? Are routine time limits and boundaries in pregnancy and labour natural? And the list could go on. (Again, not judgement, just observation - well, more like pondering in this case.) It's certainly normal in our society (ie: common, accepted, majority practice), but is it natural? How do we differentiate between normal and natural? Does it matter? (I believe it does, and the evidence certainly supports this - but others may feel differently regardless.) There are many things that have an impact on our births and may interfere with their nature - not just epidurals and Caesareans. Always worth reflecting on. :)

[step-mum+1]

I think that if gas was used it is no longer a natural birth. The reason for my opinion is that at the hospital where i birthed there was a pregnant midwife and she was not able to attend the birth if nitrous oxide was used becuse it can harm an unborn fetus. If it can harm I dont think it is natural.

I know many people get confused between natural birth and vaginal birth. So when explaining my birth story I say I had a drug free natural birth with no interventions. It is a very interesting topic and one that can cause contraversy. I wonder if it was the thread I started that got you thinking about this. LOL:)

[~mia&ryan~]

I don't think anything that alters how you feel, etc is natural. Before labour I thought gas was natural and ok. Took one suck of the stuff, blacked out and new it wasn't. They turned it off so I just sucked on air and concentrated on the rattle (love the rattle) when I felt I needed something. Tapping my feet worked better though LOL :laughing: . IMO natural is no interference. I had to have my waters broken and be induced cos DD was big and v. overdue. Had episiotomy, cos of her big head! But refused painkillers for the cut and the stitches. And I had injection to help expel placenta cos I was loosing lots of blood and blacking out. I had it as natural as I could, next time I am hoping I wont need anything at all.:thumbsup:

[WitchHazel]

I would say no. But then, I don't think gas actually does anything except distract you!
It's funny, when people ask me if I had a natural birth, I say no because I had an epidural. Then they look confused because they actually meant to ask if I had a VB! For some people, the two terms are interchangeable.

[*Chels*]

As someone just mentioned,Natural means the woman just gives birth, baby comes out vagina, baby goes to breast.
Well thats exactly what I did,but I had gas.
I consider my birth a natural one.Gas doesnt affect the baby at all.Proof of that is that my son latched on beautifully from the start-was easy to feed coz he wasnt doped up from drugs.A year later that BFing relationship is going strong.
So I voted YES, Having gas still is a natural birth:)

[Zan]

I've never had gas so can't comment on it's pain relieving properties. But if it doesn't relieve pain why do they use gas (nitreous oxide which is a drug) in dentists and hospitals (just last night on the TV they gave it to a man who was in trememdous pain from a shattered ankle whilst stabilising it as he'd already had morphine) to relieve pain?

Personally as it is a drug I would say no.

Zan

[annsam]

Personally, I think its up to the person whos given birth how they define their birth.

[T Bear]

Personally I think it's just semantics. I really don’t think it matters what definitions people put on different words, it doesn’t alter their actual experiences. Someone pointed out that there is an argument that delivering in a hospital may not be ‘natural’, and monitoring the pregnancy and birth may not be ‘natural’ however that does not make these things bad.

Although I plan (perhaps make that hope, as you never know what will happen) to have a drug and intervention free birth, I’m certainly very grateful to have the support of a medical system that can be invoked if necessary. It is important to remember that there was a time when ‘modern medicine’ did not exist, and although the majority of women survived childbirth and babies were born healthy, there were a lot who did not. Childbirth was considered to be a risky thing, and when things went wrong they often had very tragic outcomes.

I guess my point is that I think, in most circumstances, the less intervention the better, but I’m very glad that the facilities and support are available if I need them. Ultimately the important thing is that a mother and baby are safe and well – what could be more natural than that?

[twolittlegirls]

I had gas and believe me, I think it does jack ****!! The one thing it did do though was help me to concetrate on my breathing. It depends what percentage you have at to. It was at 50/50 for me. I chucked it before the transtion stage, to hard tofocus on.

[shed]

Okay, so this just happened yesterday, and it made me see it from a different viewpoint:

We are going on a baby photoshoot thingy and they had to get a child health nurse to ring up first and ask questions about bubbys health etc and she asked (and I quote:)

"was the birth caesarean or natural?"

They are her exact words.

I get it now. People say "natural" because they don't want to say the word "vaginal".!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah!!!

[Seekrit]

I've never had gas so can't comment on it's pain relieving properties. But if it doesn't relieve pain why do they use gas (nitreous oxide which is a drug) in dentists and hospitals (just last night on the TV they gave it to a man who was in trememdous pain from a shattered ankle whilst stabilising it as he'd already had morphine) to relieve pain?

Personally as it is a drug I would say no.

Zan

I think it's because it's a relaxin. The guy already had morphine... so there's his pain relief. Dentists also give local first, before the gas.

[Jodiee]

Im not trying to cause an argument here, promise....

I have so far had 4 births..

1st was spontaneous, I had gas to calm me down when I first got to the hospital because I was holding my breath with each contraction, and almost passing out (forgetting to breath)

2nd, 3rd, and 4th were all completely drug free....

Now, I have always said that all my births were natural, not even realising that the gas was considered a drug, because although it was used, it wasnt for pain relief, but more to calm me down, and to concentrate, and basically to make me to remember to breathe..
Now that I think about it, the gas made me "woozy" probably like I had taken a couple of Panadeine fortes, you know the feeling..
I spose it must have some properties in it that take the edge off etc, Im confused now!!

Anyway, nope, I dont consider if a woman had gas, then she didnt have a completely natural labour, dont really know why.. but then, I never really thought pethadine, etc, to be out of the equation either, sort of drew the line at epidurals....

I can also say that I had an absolutely natural birth with DS, he was born still in the sac, which is amazing in itself! We had to break the sac after delivery to get him out!! (this is called in the caul)

Jo

[lilpearl]

I think there are all sorts of ideas as to what is a 'natural' birth. My last birth was a water VBAC, that included gas, and I certainly consider it a lot more 'natural' than my emergency caesarean scenario. I think a completely natural birth would include no drugs at all, and nitrous is a form of pain relief (different women experience it differently, but it does dull one's perception of pain, just as many other drugs do). I often refer to a vaginal delivery as a 'natural' birth...i.e, where nature intended the baby to come forth from! It depends on what one means by 'natural'.

[EskimoMumma]

If you have gas you can still have a natural birth IMO :yes:

[Gumby]

If gas is "PAIN RELIEF" why doesnt it stop the pain? I'd say my bubs were born natural without pain relief evan though I had gas.

[lilpearl]

rian - gas is pain relief, although it doesn't work as well for some women. It works by dulling the pain receptors in the brain, and leaves one feeling really out of it, very high and happy. Some women have a stronger tolerance to this sort of thing. I found it a great relief to the pain at first, because I was far better able to relax in between contractions, which in itself helps with pain. And it certainly takes the edge off the pain, if used correctly. The problem with Nitrous is it's very hard to time....you have to breath it in hard as soon as you feel a contraction coming on (you know, when you start to feel the wave but the pain hasn't come on yet?), and stop breathing it in at the peak of the contraction, when it is supposed to take effect. If not timed perfectly, it wont help with the pain at all....and as you go further into labour, it becomes harder to time, when the contractions are one on top of the other...becomes impossible, really, and the gas just becomes a sort of security blanket by that stage, for most women who use it.

[stellarella]

As far as I know using gas means you used pharmaceutical pain relief which means the birth technically wasnt natural in strict terms.

however i would be pretty darn pleased with myself if i only used gas.

[bris_mummy-to-be17]

well i should probably say that although i'm pregnant i have not yet given birth so my opinion could completely change after that :laughing: but for now i think that using gas, it is still considered a natural birth. Why? Because you use the gas during contractions, but once it comes time to push you stop using it.

The main definition i found for "natural childbirth" was this;;

"labor and childbirth without medical intervention; no drugs are given to relieve pain or aid the birth process"

For me (and i could be totally wrong because although i've tried the gas, its never been during labour! so this is JMO) i don't think that it is the nitrous oxide that helps you, i believe its the fact you concentrate on your breathing and something other than the pain, thus releasing more endorphins.

a definition of endorphins;;
"Natural substances, chemically similar to morphine, that the brain releases to relieve pain."

So IMO, using the gas just helps you to relax and produce more endorphins, so that in itself helps with the pain, and endorphins are completely natural.

This is a great thread, really gets you thinking hey!

[FourAngelKisses]

For me (and i could be totally wrong because although i've tried the gas, its never been during labour! so this is JMO) i don't think that it is the nitrous oxide that helps you, i believe its the fact you concentrate on your breathing and something other than the pain, thus releasing more endorphins.

I think you are totally right. I've always thought the same thing and I had a midwife tell me that too when I was having my third child.
I don't think that a "drug" that doesn't relieve pain should be called pain relief.

[stellarella]

As someone just mentioned,Natural means the woman just gives birth, baby comes out vagina, baby goes to breast.
Well thats exactly what I did,but I had gas.
I consider my birth a natural one.Gas doesnt affect the baby at all.Proof of that is that my son latched on beautifully from the start-was easy to feed coz he wasnt doped up from drugs.A year later that BFing relationship is going strong.
So I voted YES, Having gas still is a natural birth:)

While I dont disagree with anything you said chels...if a natural birth means bubs latched on beautifully and had no BFing probs then by that definition I had a "natural" birth, which is just laughable as I had an Epidural and ended up having syntocinon aswell...:D

[lilpearl]

StellaRella - you had an epidural in a birth centre?

Angel_kisses - I'm very surprised your midwife said that nitrous isn't a pain-reliever, because that's not true. Nitrous is indeed a class of drug that relieves pain, but works better for some women than others. Some women swear by it as a fantastic pain-relieving drug during labour.

The thing about nitrous is, while other drugs are shown to have a negative effect on the natural hormones of birth, namely oxytocin (the hormone that initiates bonding between mother and baby), nitrous has less effect on this, as it doesn't stay in the system for long. This makes it ideal for women who feel they need something towards the end of 1st stage, but don't want to interfere too much with the natural birth process. Something else that interferes with the natural process of birth, and the hormones of birth that initiate bonding is active management of the third stage, which is why most women choose to birth their placenta in their own time. I think, for this reason, that a birth with nitrous and without Syntocinon/Syntometrine is more 'natural' than one with a managed third stage and no nitrous, as it's a matter (in my mind) of what interferres with the birth process the most.

[stellarella]

StellaRella - you had an epidural in a birth centre?



Yep, and I had the syntometrine aswell (Is that the one for the placenta delivery?)

[subaruforestermum]

In my mind, I consider 'gas' to come under the broad title of 'drug/medicinal pain relief'...I do consider it to be an intervention that eases the pain (or perception of) pain...

I tend to think that a natural birth is one without ANY intervention-y pain relief such as gas, epidural, tens etc.

The way I look at it, if it isn't something that I would use at home to ease, say, period pain, then it would be a non-natural birth. So..I would say that back rubs, warm showers, panadol etc would not exclude you from having a natural birth.

I hope that makes sense - its late!

I suppose it is a little pet peeve of mine (well..not really...but a little teeny bit) when women say that they had a 'natural' birth, but had gas. I guess I might be prickly about that because I had a 'natural' birth without gas. :o

It is interesting to find out the different opinions we all have on the matter :)

I agree with Noo - as I gave birth to my son with no pain relief at all......

I was very proud of myself for having no medicinal pain relief, just a warm shower......

As for the gas not being pain relief, I had to have the gas after my son was born, as I hemmoraged and they tried to put a catheter in, and I was sucking down the gas and couldn't feel a thing my body was all numb, so I believe that it is a pain relief...

My opinion...........you don't have to agree

[goose]

The way I look at it, if it isn't something that I would use at home to ease, say, period pain, then it would be a non-natural birth. So..I would say that back rubs, warm showers, panadol etc would not exclude you from having a natural birth.


Since when is panadol natural and not classed as a drug.. :confused:

Panadol is a drug which relieves pain...
How is that natural??

[FourAngelKisses]

I think this is one subject that will always be disagreed on.

I for one, am proud of the fact that I gave birth to an 11lb baby using nothing but gas (which did nothing for pain, just stopped me hyperventilating).

[becca74]

I would have once voted yes as with my first 2 sons, gas was all I had and I thought it was lurvely.

But that all changed when I started having horrific hallucinations during my labour with DS3 when using gas. I actually found it less traumatic to just have the contractions raw and gave up on the gas altogether.

It was this horrific memory that made me feel as though my recent drug-free homebirth was alot easier to cope with, since I had that perspective to draw on.

So now that I've experienced labours with and without gas, I would have to vote that, no, I do not think using gas is part of a natural birth.

[AM]

I think most women who try to achieve a natural birth do so because they want to ensure they are not ingesting any artificial substance which will in turn pass to the baby and affect its wellbeing.
I would be very interested to know exactly what effect nitrous oxide has on the baby, and it must have some effect, even if it is minor.

On another tangent, if you want to get really purist about natural birth, I know of people who consider vaginal examinations to be interventions, and even cutting of the cord and the presence of medical personell!

So the definition of natural birth can be interpreted in so many ways, if you aren't in your own home, sans medicos, it ain't natural!:laughing: :cool: 9tongue in cheek of course!)

And I did like someones comment earlier in the thread that it is how the woman interprets/views her birth herself, which is important!:yelclap:

[bris_mummy-to-be17]

I found this interesting:

"Side Effects Of Nitrous Oxide
Nitrous oxide has no smell and is not unpleasant to breathe. The mask may smell a little rubbery but this is not usually unpleasant. Some people have a 'phobia' for face masks and feel as though they are suffocating. (Such fears often go back to a previous unpleasant experience; for example, in the dentist's chair! ) If so, many people prefer to breathe through the mouth piece instead Not everyone likes the effects of nitrous oxide. Some people feel that is makes them feels nauseated (although this occurs commonly in labour anyway). Others feel confused or disoriented, floating, or a bit drunk. These feelings are pleasant for some, but unpleasant for others. The important thing to remember is that all of these effects will quickly disappear once you stop using it. If they don't - then something else must be to blame, such as stress or fatigue. There is absolutely no risk of becoming dependent or addicted to nitrous oxide when using it during childbirth. If it is used in high concentrations for a very long time, nitrous oxide can depress the bone marrow and lead to temporary anaemia. For this to occur, the exposure period needs to be at least eight hours (and at concentrations sufficient to produce anaesthesia). There is no evidence that this complication has ever occurred -or even could occur - using nitrous oxide during childbirth.

Effects On The Baby
Nitrous oxide does not cause any abnormalities or malformations. Nor does it interfere with the contractions or have any effect on the duration of labour. Although it passes easily to the baby, as we have already seen, it is very rapidly eliminated as soon as the baby cries and starts to breathe. It does not have any effect on the fetal heart rate or circulation and does not depress the baby's respiration at birth. In other words, nitrous oxide is perfectly safe for the baby.

Studies on the neurobehaviour of infants who have been exposed to nitrous oxide during labour have detected no influence of the gas whatsoever - even in the first few hours of life. Similarly, other studies have confirmed that nitrous oxide has no effects on the infant's ability to suckle."


I wonder what concentration it needs to be to actually work as an anaesthesia? I also read another thing on the internet that said the only long time side affect that has been noted so far is that later in life the baby has a 5 times higher chance of being addicted to amphetamines than a brother or sister born without using gas. Eep that's scary and i hope it's just a coincidence!! Maybe i'll just see if they'll let me breathe in 100% oxygen :laughing:

[AM]

Yes, i've read about the possible link to drug addiction in later life, and I think it is not limited to use of nitrous, but any other pharmaceutical drug as well, pethadine, epidurals etc.
And thanks for the info on nitrous!

[shed]

I never found that information when I was looking into pain relief. I wish I had known this, I wouldn't have used the gas if I thought it would have ANY effect on my baby. Gas is promoted as being completely harmless to the baby, which to me means "completely" in every respect.

I'm going to go and talk to my doula about it.

[stellarella]

I have also read about the link to drug addiction:yes:

[AM]

I guess in theory, the baby could experience every reaction that the mother could/does, so the baby may feel

nauseous
confused
disorientated
floating
drunk

Even if all of these do disappear as soon as baby breathes it out of its lungs, I still would not want my baby to experience these feelings even for a short period of time. Just my opinion, and I guess why I've never used gas.

[AM]

OK - found some more info

Andrea Robertson on risks for caregivers as well as women and babies.

http://www.birthinternational.com/diary/archives/000421.html



Manufacturer’s info on entonox.

http://www.acegraphics.com.au/diary/archives/000363.html



The link between drugs for pain in labour and later drug addiction in the child.

http://www.acegraphics.com.au/parents/drugs/addiction.html



Narcotic (Opiate) Drugs
Pethidine (demerol), Morphine, Heroin (diamorphine)

http://www.acegraphics.com.au/parents/drugs/drugs.html



If you are offered drugs for easing pain in labour, there are a number of questions you need to ask yourself and your caregivers.

http://www.acegraphics.com.au/parents/drugs/questions.html



Drugs and anaesthetics

http://www.acegraphics.com.au/parents/drugs/index.html



Patient-administered inhalation of nitrous oxide and oxygen gas for procedural pain relief

http://www.worldwidewounds.com/2003/october/Pediani/Entonox-Pain-Relief.html#



NIOSH Warns: Nitrous Oxide Continues to Threaten Health Care Workers

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/94-118.html



Medical Hazards Research Warnings:

http://www.birthpsychology.com/lifebefore/wombsafe3.html

[AM]

And this

(from ABC news online) 6 May 2005


Quote:
*Study highlights anaesthetic's risks*

A new study raises serious concerns about the side-effects of nitrous oxide, the
gas commonly known as laughing gas and used in general anaesthetics.

An Australian-led study of more than 2,000 patients in 20 hospitals around the
world has found the gas slows the recovery process and increases the rate of
serious vomiting, pneumonia and wound infections after surgery.

The results have prompted calls from doctors for the gas to be phased out in
anaesthetics and only be used for fast pain relief in cases such as injuries and
labour pains.

One of the study's chief investigators, Associate Professor Kate Lesley from the
Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Anaesthetists, says the results will
make doctors more cautious about using the gas.

"Some people will choose to discontinue using it, some anaesthetists, on the
basis of our study," she said.

"Certainly in my practice I've stopped using nitrous oxide in higher-risk
patients.

"The problem is that you have to replace it with something and some of the other
drugs that we have to use have also got significant side-effects, so it's not
cut and dried."

Birth complications

Through the study, nitrous oxide has been linked to serious side-effects
including immune system defects and birth complications.

Despite the head of the college saying that if it was banned there would be
fewer sick people, Professor Lesley says such complications are very rare.

"It's probable that nitrous oxide use is still acceptable and perfectly safe in
people having short-term procedures," she said.

"It is important to note that it's still safe for women in labour, so women can
feel confident that getting on nitrous oxide for a short period during their
labour pain is not dangerous."

The gas has been used in medicine for more than 150 years but such side-effects
have only now been researched.

The study is the first to find faults in such a widely used anaesthetic.

"The college of anaesthetists in Australia has been successful in putting
together these very large trials and carrying them out successfully," Associate
Professor Lesley said.

"In the past anaesthesia and surgery were very dangerous anyway and anaesthesia
has become so safe now, we're refining it more and more, and more subtle
problems that we have are becoming obvious."

[shed]

I used the gas for over an hour and after that I had the hose in but breathed through my nose. It was just a prop so people would know I was having a contraction so they be respectful about it (nothing worse than people yakking away when you are in pain!).

I did vomit but I don't know if that was the gas or the Panadeine Forte I took on an empty stomach, because they always do that. I don't even know why I took it. They offered it to me and I wasn't prepared for it so I just took it and then started chucking.

I am sure bubby will be fine. My labour was short and the gas was only sucked on for a few times, nothing I can do now anyway.

No gas next time though. Just a hose with something rattly attached!!

[lilpearl]

Stellarella - very interesting....I've never known a birth centre to allow an epidural, it's usually something you have to be transferred for. I guess the birth cetre you used was like the one at Frankston Hospital, which isn't a literal birth centre, but a room in a hospital designed to look homely? Birth centres tend to only allow natural births, and doctors aren't allowed in them, only midwives, which gives women that private space that they would have at home, knowing they wont come across anesthetists and obstetricians, etc.

Yes, that was a managed 3rd stage....was that something they "just did", or something which you decided? Again, if they just did it because that's what they do, that's not something birth centres normally do, and very bad of them. However, I'm guessing that you discussed it with a midwife beforehand and made the decision yourself, which is fine and dandy, of course :-)

[stellarella]

Stellarella - very interesting....I've never known a birth centre to allow an epidural, it's usually something you have to be transferred for. I guess the birth cetre you used was like the one at Frankston Hospital, which isn't a literal birth centre, but a room in a hospital designed to look homely? Birth centres tend to only allow natural births, and doctors aren't allowed in them, only midwives, which gives women that private space that they would have at home, knowing they wont come across anesthetists and obstetricians, etc.

Yes, that was a managed 3rd stage....was that something they "just did", or something which you decided? Again, if they just did it because that's what they do, that's not something birth centres normally do, and very bad of them. However, I'm guessing that you discussed it with a midwife beforehand and made the decision yourself, which is fine and dandy, of course :-)

No its a full blown Midwifery Led Birth Centre:D ...I never saw an OB throughout my whole pregnancy or labour or birth. Its the Birth Centre at The Royal Womens Hospital in Brisbane. This is their website http://www.fbc.org.au/ if you are interested.

Alot of women think that having their bubs in a Birth Centre means they CANNOT have an epidural...I think its important to dispel that myth for my particular case in my particular Birth Centre.

As I said in my previous post...I was taken from the Birth Centre room down the hall to a Birth Suite so if you call that being transferred then yes I was...however I still had my known midwife...I didnt have anyone else enter the room except the aniesthetist and I was cared for by my midwife back in the Birth Centre afterwards. I dont consider a Birth Centre to be defined by which room you give birth in...as it is run by midwives, and they provide continuity of care without interference from OB's and they support natural births with minimal or no intervention then that is a Birth Centre.

The fact that I chose to have an epidural after 32 hours of active posterior labour (from 3cms dilation), and that my trusted midwife and I decided it was in my best interest to have the syntocinon as I had not slept for 2 nights and was very tired. In the end I am very pleased I had the syntocinon as I pushed my bubby out and did not need any other intervention...however im sure my midwife was a bit worried after 2 1/4 hours of pushing :D.

As for the 3rd stage...it was decided on after discussion with my midwife as I was carrying quite a large bub which meant I had a large placenta and therefore a large area of my uterus could potentially bleed. I also had low iron levels towards the end of my pregnancy.

You should check out the Birth Centre website!

[shed]

I was booked in to the Birth Centre at Fairfield but then transferred out because:

they didn't have epidurals during the night hours
They didn't have a bathtub - only the shower

Fast forward to the birth (from 8am to 4.13pm, bubby kept office hours anyway!), no need for an epi and I spent about twenty seconds in the tub because I didn't like it! Loved the shower!

Oh well!! Next time either homebirth or birth centre for me.

[shanz]

In my opinion it is still natural when having gas etc.As i link the term natural with the way is comes out I.E Vaginal V caesarian. To me you have a Drug free Natural and a Natural with drugs. Cos when explaining to people...as everyone is so interested you dont say well i had a vaginal delivery. I say I had a natural with the assistance of gas and peth.

[demeter]

Can you have natural food with presevatives?
Seems like a tautology to me.

nat‧u‧ral 
–adjective
1.existing in or formed by nature (opposed to artificial (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=artificial)): a natural bridge.
2.based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process...
7.having undergone little or no processing and containing no chemical additives: natural food; natural ingredients. Compare organic (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=organic) (def. 11).
From dictionary.com

[AM]

You know, a lot of people use the word 'natural' to describe vaginal birth, simply because they are not comfortable saying the word!:laughing:
So really it has not a lot to do with definitions, but more to do with our own innate sense of discomfort with our bodies.

Chant after me... vagina vagina vagina, vaginal vaginal vaginal!
There, that wasn't so hard, was it! :laughing:

[stellarella]

vagina vagina vagina...ive got a vagina and my baby came out of it!!:laughing:

[lilpearl]

Stellarella - yes, very different to Sydney and Melbourne - Syd and Melb only have natural birth birth centres, so that was my confusion. Yes, that's what I meant by transferred...into the normal ward....I'm really surprised you were allowed back into the birth centre with oxytocin and an epidural...that's amazing, would never happen in other areas - I'm glad you had a wonderful birth experience! :) One more question...given that you had an epidural in place, etc, did you not have to be monitored continuously as part of that? Just wondering....it's amazing to hear of a birth centre that allows extreme intervention without obstetrical care....I'm just not used to midwives being for that sort of thing as a norm...it's great that you were supported in the ways you wanted to be, but quite amazing, too...sort of like the best of both worlds for women who want intervention - i.e - no ob!

[lilpearl]

I've just checked out their website :) So unusual! I'm just really surprised that people who are induced use the birth centre...because induction really puts one at high risk (in that, it increases ones chance of baby being ditressed, caesarean, etc dramatically). Maybe things are different in the hospitals in Brisban in that, I may be birthing in a public hospital here (if I don't have a home birth), but it is all midwifery-led care anyway....people can have an ob if they choose, but certainly no ob would be coming anywhere near me, for instance. Every hospital is very different, it's very confusing....between the births I've been at (including my own two), each hospital is very different, and it can get very confusing for people expecting one thing because they've heard of someone else having it at another hospital, only to be told it's "against policy" at their hospital. Well, I've gone off topic!!! Sorry guys!

I think every hospital should support women in the way you were supported, stellarella, as a rule. There are some labour wards that are full of obs and have no ensuite! Terrible. Then there are brilliant ones that do have the midwifery-led care, the baths, etc. There should be a high-standard of care across the board! The main concern, obviously, is the rate of intervention, and caesarean....I think that's always a good indicator of what sort of experience you are likely to have at any given hospital. Some private hospitals, for instance, have a caesarean rate of 90%:shame: ...seriously, places like Ina May's "farm", have a caesarean rate of no more than 3% (and she welcomes VBAC's, etc)...now, that tells us something, doesn't it?:yes:

[CandyJane]

Stellarella - yes, very different to Sydney and Melbourne - Syd and Melb only have natural birth birth centres, so that was my confusion. Yes, that's what I meant by transferred...into the normal ward....I'm really surprised you were allowed back into the birth centre with oxytocin and an epidural...that's amazing, would never happen in other areas - I'm glad you had a wonderful birth experience! :) One more question...given that you had an epidural in place, etc, did you not have to be monitored continuously as part of that? Just wondering....it's amazing to hear of a birth centre that allows extreme intervention without obstetrical care....I'm just not used to midwives being for that sort of thing as a norm...it's great that you were supported in the ways you wanted to be, but quite amazing, too...sort of like the best of both worlds for women who want intervention - i.e - no ob!

I had an almost identical birthing experience to Stella, in the same Birth Centre :) Though I decided WITH my midwife that I wanted an epidural after about 42 hours of labouring. I had the epidural for about 8 hours to get some rest, and then at my midwives decision (Must admit, once it was in, I was reluctant to give it up - but I thanked her later!) it was turned off AND removed from that point on. My son was born another 10 hours or so after the epidural was removed.

The idea of Birth Centres isn't necessarily 'natural births only' - it is 'minimum intervention only' which hopefully is nil. Had I had a hospy birth, I know for certain I would have been induced, and I also know for certain that I would have had a c/section. My midwife encouraged me to work with alternate pain relief for as long as possible. It was only when I got to the point of exhaustion that WE made the decision to transfer to the birthing suites so I could have an epidural.

I was also moved straight back to the birth centre after my son was born (I think that is what Stella was saying, that she was moved back after the birth, not moved back with the epidural), and had no contact with an Ob until minutes before my son was born, where she was called due to an unrelated emergency. The only 'continual monitoring' I had while the epidural was in place was my midwife sitting quietly in the corner of the room.

Stella, which midwife did you have?

Cheers,
CJ

[CandyJane]

I've just checked out their website :) So unusual! I'm just really surprised that people who are induced use the birth centre...because induction really puts one at high risk (in that, it increases ones chance of baby being ditressed, caesarean, etc dramatically). Oh wait, not sure where you saw that Liana? The Birth Centre at the RWH will not induce.... :confused: Actually, if the mother really really wants, they will do ARM, but thats it. Once syntocin gets involved (which BC midwives will strongly discourage), you have to transfer out of the birth centre.

Stella - I am surprised at the managed 3rd stage though.... VERY surprised that a BC midwife would suggest in advance that you have a large placenta? Or even a large baby for that matter? Did she explain why having a large placenta would indicate the need for a managed 3rd stage? :confused:

[stellarella]

Oh wait, not sure where you saw that Liana? The Birth Centre at the RWH will not induce.... :confused: Actually, if the mother really really wants, they will do ARM, but thats it. Once syntocin gets involved (which BC midwives will strongly discourage), you have to transfer out of the birth centre.

Stella - I am surprised at the managed 3rd stage though.... VERY surprised that a BC midwife would suggest in advance that you have a large placenta? Or even a large baby for that matter? Did she explain why having a large placenta would indicate the need for a managed 3rd stage? :confused:

Hey candy, Ive PMed you regarding midwife!

No we decided after the bub was born to have the syntometrine, as I had low iron levels bordering on aneamia it was risky for me to lose too much blood.

After bub was born and we saw how big the placenta was and how big bub was we decided that the size of the "wound" (cant think of a better word) suggested I may bleed more.

It turned out I hardly bled at all, maybe from the syntometrine or maybe not. Maybe I didnt need the syntometrine at all. By the time I had had the epidural and the syntocinon my natural hormones had already been disrupted and I was already upset I didnt get my natural birth so I just thought, why not have the syntometrine aswell. :(

[Sara's Boys]

My SIL is a GP and has worked at various hospitals in Melbourne. She has informed me that a "natural" birth is one that needed no medical intervention, ie, c sect, epidural, vaccuum etc. The reffereal to the word natural means you gave birth vaginally without intervention, having gas or pethidine doesn't change that as they are pain relief methods, where as the other methods involve medical procedure.

That would be why the Birth centres still provide the option to pethidine and gas, and they deal only with "natural" births or uncomplicated ones rather.

[kiwibird27]

Gas just takes the edge off - use it only when u really need it, I spent ages laughing at my toes!!!

Natural I think is when u lay down in a field and the miracle occurs - a natural hospital birth includes gas!!!!

[Caithi]

Natural I think is when u lay down in a field and the miracle occurs - a natural hospital birth includes gas!!!!

:eek: In a field?:laughing: you are too funny! :hugs:

[stellarella]

My SIL is a GP and has worked at various hospitals in Melbourne. She has informed me that a "natural" birth is one that needed no medical intervention, ie, c sect, epidural, vaccuum etc. The reffereal to the word natural means you gave birth vaginally without intervention, having gas or pethidine doesn't change that as they are pain relief methods, where as the other methods involve medical procedure.

That would be why the Birth centres still provide the option to pethidine and gas, and they deal only with "natural" births or uncomplicated ones rather.

I guess its quite a subjective thing. I dont consider a birth that used pethidine or gas to be natural. Natural means natural. IE, You birth the way you would have before modern medicine came along. That means no drugs/synthetic hormones/medical assistance of any kind.

It means you go into labour spontaneously, you dont have any syntocinon to induce or speed up labour, you dont have any pharmaceutical pain relief, you dont have an assisted delivery, you dont have a c/sec, you dont have syntometrine to deliver the placenta.

Thats how I see it anyway.

[Brissie_Mum2b]

I agree Stellarella - natural means just that, no drugs, no gas, nothing.

I had a totally natural birth and it was the most amazing empowering experience I have ever been through. The fact I did it naturally was a fluke really - the midwife kept telling me I was gonna be in all night and I just kept thinking if it's gonna get worse than this I'll hold off on any pain relief. By 11.30pm I was pushing and Hannah was born as 12.21!!

Next bubs is due next June and I'm really hoping to do the same again :fingerscrossed:

Liz

[Sara's Boys]

I guess its quite a subjective thing. I dont consider a birth that used pethidine or gas to be natural. Natural means natural. IE, You birth the way you would have before modern medicine came along. That means no drugs/synthetic hormones/medical assistance of any kind.

It means you go into labour spontaneously, you dont have any syntocinon to induce or speed up labour, you dont have any pharmaceutical pain relief, you dont have an assisted delivery, you dont have a c/sec, you dont have syntometrine to deliver the placenta.

Thats how I see it anyway.

It's so interesting the varying range of opinions on the topic. I was more so saying what was the medical view from my SIL.

IMO a natural birth is one that is brought on naturally, vaginally without the need to induce and without any intervention medically. However I don't see pain relief changing the fact the baby is delivered naturally and vaginally, as the pain is only a symptom of birth. But thats just me.

I think many people put way too much emphasis on the nitty gritty of what is and isn't natural, who was strong enough and I do feel sorry for people feeling disappointed they didn't achieve a drug free birth. But at the end of the day, if you have a healthy baby, thats really all that matters.

When I had my son, I had a very short but agonising labour, it was induced as I was 2 weeks over and had BPressure issues, I remember feeling really guilty that I had opted for pain relief and that I had been induced, but looking back, I just feel blessed to have a beautiful baby.

This time (hopefully next week) I do still hope to have no pain relief, as I plan to go into labour naturally. I am not due til the 29th but have set myself up with rasberry leaf tea, clary sage oil, and am having accupressure and accupuncture next week. Here's hoping

[Alisonp]

I voted NO because obviously, GAS is pain relief and no it is not part of the natural birthing process - it's a drug.

Personally I couldn't give two hoots whether it is natural or not. I tried it, it didn't help much except make me feel disconnected and weird and a bit sick.

I had an induction, gas, epidural and a ventouse delivery and I feel fine about everything that happened.

I guess this sort of question only matters if the idea of natural delivery is very important to you.:o

[BecH]

Hi everyone,

Wow tricky question. I guess I find it hard because I too had my daughter at the Birth Centre, but after 30 hours of labour had Gas before pushing, maybe 1/2 hour. I guess an idea of a natural birth is important to me and I don't feel like I truly had any pain relief from that. But my question is all my friends had epidurals or elective ceasars so I always say when in there company that I had a natural birth, comparatively I certainly feel I did!

I agree that drugs are not natural. However I feel in my heart that for me 29.5 hours of natural labour has to be a fairly natural birth (well in my head anyway :o ). But I promise I always disclose I had Gas.

Next time I would skip the Gas, I guess I tried it in place of an epi so it felt right.

Honestly it is hard because every birth is so different but I do feel you can have had a "natural" birth relative to modern intervention.

[Ashleigh<3]

I'm really not to sure, it's hard to figure.

I guess a easy way of looking at it is, in the olden days, what options did they have? Before ultrasounds, forceps, drugs.
They had the option of water to help with pain, but some didn't even bother with that.

IMO, giving birth on your back- For me, was the most uncomforting, thought, feeling imaginable! I was jumping for joy when I hopped into the birthing bath and had the most 'natural' pain reliever of them all, being water. So much easier in coping with contractions.

I remember my sister using gas, and it just made her sick, I have to ask, WHY do you need to concentrate on breathing? I thought it was an automatic reflex we are born with...:detective:

I never tried to alter my breathing at all, everything in me was focussed on meditatively relaxing my whole body in between contractions.

I think you'll find that some women can suffer from breathing difficulties during rough, second stage labour. Obviously there's a lot of pressure in our abdomen. Our lungs can almost feel strangeled.
This was the case for me, I hated my asthma even more at that point, I was dissapointed to have made it so far, and only with a couple hours on the gas, have I delivered.
But thinking back to my actual physical state, prior opting for the gas, I was having an extremely hard time breathing, and for most of the time I was sucking down the gas, I was still having a hard time opening my lungs up completely- Which the gas really does help you focus on. It didn't give me that 'air' to breathe.
Just helped me get into a focussed routine where i could toss aside how much pain I was in. But having that 'help' obviously seems like, well I needed help, I couldn't do it all on my own after the breathing issues. (although it doesn't take away the pain at all) and really you use your lungs the right way through the contractions when you have something to help you concentrate.
Due to my hard time breathing even whilst on the gas, I was continuously asking for oxygen over the gas, IMO when i'd suck down the oxygen I was battling those contractions better then without.

After expressing my rant, I now think, yes the gas is obviously a drug-
Method of pain relief though? No. Well for me, not at all.
But yes a DRUG. We are opting for another method to assist us during our labour, rather then sticking it out with what we've got, some of us may have needed that assistance, like me, I needed bottled up oxygen to help me. So I don't think I wen't full blown natural. Even though oxygen is not a drug, it was the extra help that I desperately needed, something I couldn't have gone without.
If you're battling labour all on your own, without the assistance of medical intervention, concentrative gas! You have gone full blown natural! What else did you use that isn't your own? :)

[k&k]

I gave birth naturally without any form of pain relief.

If people ask I tell them I had a natural, drug free birth.

I don't think having gas means your birth was not natural, it just wasn't drug free.

Cheers Karen

[stellarella]

I agree that drugs are not natural. However I feel in my heart that for me 29.5 hours of natural labour has to be a fairly natural birth (well in my head anyway :o ).

I like this theory bech :D ....I was in established labour for 32 hours before I got an epidural...does that mean I had a natural birth?? I wish I could say I did...but I dont think im being fair to anyone who really did have a "natural" birth...

However I dont think it really matters what anyone else says....I think getting through a labour with only gas is an achievement and I would be so proud of myself if I did!!!

[xkwzit]

I went epi pretty much from the get go. But I am excessively proud of the fact that I pushed my babies out into the world on my own w/o any other interference (except episiotomy - but I have is-sewes with tearing - and my issues aren't rational, sorry). Maybe it isn't "natural" - but I'm damn proud about it all the same :).

Stella - I say be PROUD anyway :thumbsup:

Cheers

[FinnsMama]

Stella - I say be PROUD anyway :thumbsup: Yeah, I agree! You went through 32 hours of "natural" labour - wow! Even though I birthed my baby without drugs or medical intervention I only went through 9.5 hours of labour, and while I'd like to think I could have gone 32 hours if I'd had to, who knows?! Quite possibly not!

But what I did have was "rescue remedy"- does that count?! My middie sprayed it on my tongue during second stage, which was longish, as I was getting a bit panicked ("I'm so tired, I just want to lie down" etc). Also I didn't have a natural third stage as my middies were worried about how much I was bleeding.

What about other herbal remedies, even teas? Not forms of pain relief obviously, but they might help labour progress???? Sorry if this has been covered, I haven't read the whole thread!

[kristi001]

Well i didnt have any pain relief at all.. :) I am very proud of mself hehe.. :D Thou i do know people who have had the gas and they have said that it doesnt help with the pain whats so ever.. It just helps you focus on the contractions and your breathing more, and is more of a comfort thing... So i will agree that if you sucked up on that happy gas you still had a natural birth!!

:party: And A big well Done :party:

[kristi001]

Ans another note after i had bubs the midwife came in to fill out some paperwork and she asked me if i had any drugs during labour Quote "No Pethadine or Epidural" I am the one that actually mentioned to her that i hadnt had gas either... So i dont know if that relevant or not.

[dragonflyblu]

wow this has been an interesting read. I am preparing for a natural birth using hynobirthing techniques, i have not had very much medical intervention during the pregnancy (1 ultrasound and 1 bloodtest). I would love to be in a birthing centre but i am in the birth suite at RWBH :( anyway I am writing up our birth plan and I have included gas (and internals and fetal monitoring along with anything that is basically hospital-type stuff) under the "medical intervention" section. If I cant do it at home then I figure its an intervention... But I havent actually worked out if the "medical interventions" mean it isnt a natural birth, at the moment I am swaying towards thinking that if I need any hospital intevention then something is wrong with the labour and it becomes a medical birth (ie medical problem) and therefore not natural. Anyway, ask me again in 6 weeks... but since I have had a pregnancy free of medical problem I am not expecting the labour to become medical either.

[jessi]

Gas doesn't actually help with the pain, I even had a midwife tell me that. It just helps you concentrate on your breathing, which relaxes you and helps with the pain. So in my opinion, if you have gas only, you still have a natural birth.

I agree with this statement. I had gas but still consider my birth a natural birth.:yes:

[AimeeB]

*laughs* I can imagine women walking down the street for one week a month sucking on a gas=pack that's strapped to their back.

I voted yes, because it served no pain relief, but it allowed me to focus on my breathing with each contraction and visualise the contractions' ebb and flow.

I agree! I tried it with #1-ds,first suck made me vomit,so didn't use it again.he delivered after only 4 hrs with no other intervention.Used mouth piece with both DD1 and DD2 after this but with 95% oxygen coming through and only 5% gas,had no affect on pain whatsoever but did help me concentrate on breathing technique and focus,they were both 4 and 1 hr labours.I still consider I had a natural birth and that's what the midwives(including my mum)at the birthing centre considered it also.I delivered 3 healthy bubs with no other medical intervention or drugs,no stitches,etc.People cope in different ways with pain and whilst I delivered 3 babies without other "drugs" I would never put someone down for using them.