Give me some encouragement!!

[up the duff]

Hi :D
My little guy is 5 1/2 months, and after various colds etc he has got into a pretty shabby nighttime waking routine. I am DESPERATE to improve it! He self settles pretty well now for his sleeps (day and first of the night) without a dummy (had to ditch it as it was causing too many problems!!). He goes down about 7, then wakes at 8.45 on the dot, I resettle, then he usually wakes again at 9.30, at which time I usually feed him. The last couple of night I have decided not to feed again until 2 or later, which he seems to have been fine with, but he still wakes in between the feeds. Last night it was all a bit of a haze, but I am pretty sure he was awake and needed help resettling about 4 times between 10 and 2. then he slept until 6, at which time I decided bugger getting up now, im still too tired and my toddler is still asleep to you can be too! I wrapped him up (he's usually in a bag now unless he's being a real pain, and then swaddling seems to calm him down) shoved a dummy in his mouth and he went back to sleep until 7.30. Anyway, GIVE ME SOME ENCOURAGEMENT TO LET HIM CRY A LITTLE!! I always find it so hard, but am amazed at how quickly things get better. I really think he will only need a little bit of encouragement.....its just been too long with too much cr@p sleep for me to go on anymore like this! Its honestly for my sanity, and for my toddler and the little guy (oh yeah, and there's a husband in there somewhere that might appreciate a slightly less sleep deprived wife too ;) )

So I was thinking of trying to leave him for 5 mins before I initially go in, and then do some shh-patting for 30 seconds or so (he loves a bit of shh-pat!!) then going again for maybe 6 or 7 mins or whatever. what do you think?? I was also considering trying the verbal reassurance technique (see http://www.thesleepstore.com.au/sleep-information/infant-sleep/sleep-information/verbal-reassurance--vr--sleep-training ). Come on ladies :cheerleader2:, give me some encouragement, I need some proper sleep!! :)

[Majestic Hiss]

I realise this is in the pro-cc section but I'm pretty sure cc is not recommended for babies under 6mo

[up the duff]

Thanks for your reply MH. Yep, its the pro-cc section, but I'll justify my decision anyway.

I am aware of the AAIMHI recommendations, but like everything in life, I have taken it on board and made my own decision and judgment. I tend to agree with the following

"Research:
We believe our advice on the different sleep training techniques techniques is comprehensive and gives parents a starting point for their research and decision making. Our information is based on significant research from a range of authors and we receive daily updates on relevant academic research in this area.
In particular we refer to "Behavioral Treatment Of Bedtime Problems And Night Wakings In Infants And Young Children" - An American Academy of Sleep Medicine Review published in 2006 as a good overview of behavioural sleep training. This research looked of 56 academic studies specifically on infant sleep training, and assessed positive and negative effects from the sleep training.
This comprehensive academic review found "Adverse secondary effects as the result of participating in behaviorally based sleep programs were not identified in any of the studies. On the contrary, infants who participated in sleep interventions were found to be more secure, predictable, less irritable, and to cry and fuss less following treatment". Therefore the babies who learned to sleep using techniques such as controlled crying were much happier and more attached overall, with no negative effects shown.
This study also had a comprehensive look at the impact of infant sleep training on parental mental health. They found "Following intervention for their child’s sleep disturbance, parents exhibited rapid and dramatic improvements in their overall mental health status, reporting fewer symptoms of depression. They reported an increased sense of parenting efficacy, enhanced marital satisfaction, and reduced parenting stress."
Cortisol.....
You may also have read about sleep training effecting your baby's levels of 'cortisol', the body's stress hormone. This has been made a big deal of by those who disagree with encouraging babies to learn to sleep independently.
It's important to note that Cortisol levels can rise for a number of reasons - One of the key reasons cortisol levels rise in children is from the stress of continued sleep deprivation....this is never mentioned by those who disagree with sleep training.
We disagree with the view that waking frequently in the night to be comforted or fed by mum is necessary for older babies to form a secure attachment and have positive mental health as an adult. Or that it is best for a child to continue waking frequently in the night up to the age of 3 years rather than learn to sleep, as recommended by the Australian Assn for Infant Mental Health. However you can view the AAIMHI Statement On Controlled Crying Here and make your own judgment here."

Also my DS is less than two weeks away from being 6 months.

[mini-moo's mummy]

Set urself achievable time limits.... Say 2 minutes then 5, then 7, then 10 etc.... If it's easier on u work up to leaving him. I won't go into my DD in under 10 minutes because she ends up worse the more I go in so it's easier for me to leave her. Good luck!!! CC has worked really well for us

[Majestic Hiss]

Thanks for your reply MH. Yep, its the pro-cc section, but I'll justify my decision anyway.

I am aware of the AAIMHI recommendations, but like everything in life, I have taken it on board and made my own decision and judgment. I tend to agree with the following

"Research:
We believe our advice on the different sleep training techniques techniques is comprehensive and gives parents a starting point for their research and decision making. Our information is based on significant research from a range of authors and we receive daily updates on relevant academic research in this area.
In particular we refer to "Behavioral Treatment Of Bedtime Problems And Night Wakings In Infants And Young Children" - An American Academy of Sleep Medicine Review published in 2006 as a good overview of behavioural sleep training. This research looked of 56 academic studies specifically on infant sleep training, and assessed positive and negative effects from the sleep training.
This comprehensive academic review found "Adverse secondary effects as the result of participating in behaviorally based sleep programs were not identified in any of the studies. On the contrary, infants who participated in sleep interventions were found to be more secure, predictable, less irritable, and to cry and fuss less following treatment". Therefore the babies who learned to sleep using techniques such as controlled crying were much happier and more attached overall, with no negative effects shown.
This study also had a comprehensive look at the impact of infant sleep training on parental mental health. They found "Following intervention for their child’s sleep disturbance, parents exhibited rapid and dramatic improvements in their overall mental health status, reporting fewer symptoms of depression. They reported an increased sense of parenting efficacy, enhanced marital satisfaction, and reduced parenting stress."
Cortisol.....
You may also have read about sleep training effecting your baby's levels of 'cortisol', the body's stress hormone. This has been made a big deal of by those who disagree with encouraging babies to learn to sleep independently.
It's important to note that Cortisol levels can rise for a number of reasons - One of the key reasons cortisol levels rise in children is from the stress of continued sleep deprivation....this is never mentioned by those who disagree with sleep training.
We disagree with the view that waking frequently in the night to be comforted or fed by mum is necessary for older babies to form a secure attachment and have positive mental health as an adult. Or that it is best for a child to continue waking frequently in the night up to the age of 3 years rather than learn to sleep, as recommended by the Australian Assn for Infant Mental Health. However you can view the AAIMHI Statement On Controlled Crying Here and make your own judgment here."

Also my DS is less than two weeks away from being 6 months.

Hey I'm not judging you - you don't need to justify yourself (you know that). Just wanted to point out the age recommendation that's all.

[up the duff]

Hey I'm not judging you - you don't need to justify yourself (you know that). Just wanted to point out the age recommendation that's all.

Fair enough - sorry :(

[Majestic Hiss]

No worries :)

[nadiaclement]

I agree with mini-moo, set yourself small achievable goals, ie 2mins 4 mins, and use a timer. When my bubs were smaller, i used the shh-pat method, but only patted as long as bub was crying. As soon as she/he quieted to whingeing or not crying I stilled my hand but left it on bub. After bubs was quiet for a minute or two I removed my hand and left. If she/he started crying I waited the alloted time, then returned to shh-pat til quiet. I found this much easier to deal with than straight CIO. It only took a few nights for bub to settle into sleep after only a few pats. When my son was 3 he still liked a few token pats at bedtime to settle into bed!
I learned this method at Ngala sleep school (Perth equivalent of Tresillian etc) and it has worked amazingly! I started much younger with my 2nd and 3rd child and they have been lovely sleepers (didnt sleep through or anything, but were great to settle if they woke in the night)

Hope that helps and good luck!:)

[Kez78]

Sorry to crash your thread. I'm not a fan of controlled crying. But also not judging.
I have no advice re CC, but a question:
What is CIO? I'm new to bubhub and have seen it written around a few places but don't know what it stands for.
Good luck with your bub's sleep :)

[Majestic Hiss]

Sorry to crash your thread. I'm not a fan of controlled crying. But also not judging.
I have no advice re CC, but a question:
What is CIO? I'm new to bubhub and have seen it written around a few places but don't know what it stands for.
Good luck with your bub's sleep :)

CIO = cry it out

[Kez78]

Oh... Thanks.
Like I said, not my thing but good luck finding a solution that works.

[up the duff]

Thanks guys :) I have been using shh-pat the last few nights and trying not to give him his dummy in the night (its so easy to just stick it in, but then it seems to starts this waking every 1/2 hour/ hour and wanting it back again). Last night was actually pretty good, so we might be getting somewhere already. With shh-pat, do they just stop waking as much?? Hopefully things keep improving! :fingerscrossed:

[FloatingFairy]

Hello :wave:

DD was pretty much always a perfect sleeper and still is now but we went thru an extremely rough patch towards the start of the year and none of those gentle methods were working...the more frequently I tried the shh pat and other gentle methods of trying to calm her just became a big joke to her and I ended up getting no sleep because she would only "sleep" for about 20 mins and then I'd spend 2 hours trying the shh pat etc

In the end my mum stepped up with her tough love attitude and told me on the first night when she wake up to give her a bottle and walk out. If she cries, leave her for 20 minutes, go in give her a cuddle then lay her back down with the bottle. Tell her I love her, say goodnight and walk out. Then if she cries, double the length of time before going in so wait 40 mins then go in and repeat then leave again.

I did all that and after that second time, she probably only cried for about 30 minutes but at intervals of 10 minutes with 5 minute silences in between.

My mum came over the next night to help me but I didn't need.

Apart from when she was sick one time, ever since that nigt where she probably cried in total for an hour and a half, she sleeps right thru now.

Sometimes she does wake up and my mum said to wait 10 minutes before going in there...in that ten minutes, MOST times, she's back to sleep within 5 mins.

Good luck I hope you find a solution that works for you.

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