Circumcision without cutting? The truth about the Plastibell method.

[MotherNurture]

The belief that Plastibell doesn't require cutting and is virtually painless is a myth; it requires just as much cutting as other methods. The Plastibell requires crushing and cutting a dorsal slit to place the bell, and trimming the skin around the ring after the ligature is tied.

Drawing, explaining the procedure from Hollister the manufacturer of the Plastibell device:
http://www.kelleycom.com/images/articles/circum.jpg

Another drawing, showing how a Plastibell circumcision is done:
http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/images/plastibeldrawhow.jpg

[text and links deleted by moderator]
The truth is, the other methods (gomco, mogen) clamp the skin before it's cut. The plastibell method just crushes the skin and cuts off the blood flow with a string instead. It's really not that different.

Jen

[text deleted by moderator]

[stellarella]

Preaching to the converted here Jen, BUT I just want to say I think its great that you continue to bring information to this forum for parents who may want to or have already circumcised thier boys because this topic is not something you can just cover your eyes and ears over and cry ignorant.

I know parents say they have researched thoroughly but I dont think they have.

PS. No need to get all psycho on me or anything, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CIRCUMCISIONS FOR PROVEN MEDICAL REASON or if a boy/man decides himself as the owner of the penis.

[MotherNurture]

Thank you, stellarella.

Knowledge is power.

Best Wishes,

Jen

[Funkychicken]

Thanks for keeping this topic current-it is still happening for cosmetic reasons way too many times!

[circangel]

Where is it ever suggested that the plastibel method does not involve cutting/trimming?

[stellarella]

Ive read it a number of times in other threads....you might like to have a flick through some of them.

[circangel]

Well let me know if this is correct or not. I would think a medical doctor would inform the parent/s that the procedure would involve incising some foreskin and the remainder past the plastibel would fall off. I think this should be covered in the informed consent

[stellarella]

Well I wouldnt know what the doc tells one wanting to circumcise thier son...I have never asked.

It appears some parents have not been told this ???? and perhaps thats why they decide to get it done. Or perhaps the doc assures them their child will feel no pain.

Whatever the doc tells them it must be good....hey?

[melfunction]

Just adding that they use Elma cream to numb the area before the procedure which is not recommended for use on children under the age of 2.

[circangel]

I have found a consent form by doing a google search it was not difficult to find and on it was a clearly stated which decribed the surgical removal of foreskin this was a queensland consent form I am not sure about other states but I think it would be clear on them to, it is there in print for any parent to read before they sign.

[stellarella]

Yes well I would hope that parents are aware of this before the agree to the procedure....but obviously some are not! As I said it has been mentioned numerous times in other threads how "with this new plastibell there is no cutting and NO PAIN".

Im sorry I have no idea how to make links and stuff otherwise I would direct you right there to these other threads, but im not so good with this stuff.

Regardless, in answer to your initial question, Yes there are still parents who think there is no cutting with a plastibell and thats why mothernurture has decided to post this particulal piece of information here.

She is very concerned, as am I, that many foreskins are being lost to boys of parents who are unaware of this vital information.

[stellarella]

Yay I have found the thread which I am talking about....
please see this thread (and others)

"Intact! Protecting Our Boys from Circumcision" (ByronChild Magazine)

[Funkychicken]

Surely, if the foreskin is to be removed, some people don't think there is no cutting! Are people really that naive? How else would it come off? i have no idea about circumcision-it's not something that I have ever had to think about, but I wouldn't for a second think that it could be done without any cutting! That is really scary that people are under this impression.:eek:

[Mister Noodle]

You know, if people advertised a clamp you could attach to your baby daughter's labia so they'd turn black and fall off... they'd be lynched, cutting or no.

People have strange double standards.

[stellarella]

Hmmm...so true mister noodle...

[circangel]

I think the cutting is done to avoid an injury to the area post op. I think it could really be done without cutting, (I am saying this because the incised foreskin that is left past the plastibel falls off sometime after the procedure) but it is not because it is recommended and procedural to do so. Are there any medical professionals who could verify if cutting is required other than a sensible precaution.

[the_queen]

Hmmm cutting a newborn's genitals as a sensible precaution?? :no: :no: :no: :no:


And, great point Mister Noodle.

[Funkychicken]

On farms around this great wide country of ours, and indeed throughout the world, elastrator rings are applied to the testicles of rams and calves as a means of castration. A good majority of society have never and will never see this done but they are horrified when they hear about it and some even get quite indignant. But mention doing a similar thing to a newborn male child and they barely bat an eyelid.;)

[xkwzit]

Sounds like cutting is required to retract the foreskin (which can't be naturally retracted in most boys under the age of about 2). No where can I find a link where it is defintively said that cutting is optional:

The adhesions between glans and foreskin are divided with a probe. Then the foreskin is cut longitudinally to allow it to be retracted and the glans ( head of penis ) to be exposed. The Plastibell comes in 6 sizes. The appropriate one is chosen and applied to the head. The ring is then covered over by the foreskin. A ligature is tied firmly around the foreskin, crushing it against the groove in the Plastibell. Then the excess skin protruding beyond the ring is trimmed off.
http://en.wikipedia.org Search for plastibell, but be warned there is a photo of an actual procedure.

The same info is given at http://www.infocirc.org

The manufacturer's instructions for use require an incision.
http://www.hollister.com/anz/files/pdfs/mbc_lit_plastibell.pdf

[Funkychicken]

Sounds like cutting is required to retract the foreskin (which can't be naturally retracted in most boys under the age of about 2). No where can I find a link where it is defintively said that cutting is optional:

http://en.wikipedia.org

The same info is given at http://www.infocirc.org

The manufacturer's instructions for use require an incision.
http://www.hollister.com/anz/files/pdfs/mbc_lit_plastibell.pdf
That sounds so painful-it makes me feel sick in my stomach to think about one of my boys being put through something like this! :barf:

[pookiesossige]

I know parents say they have researched thoroughly but I dont think they have.

PS. No need to get all psycho on me or anything, I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT CIRCUMCISIONS FOR PROVEN MEDICAL REASON or if a boy/man decides himself as the owner of the penis.

I'm with you on that, Stella :yes: :yes: :yes:
I saw those links and I don't believe that a mother would chose that for her son- there's no way that they could have if they had seen what's actually done.

My best pal thoughout my childhood became a nurse and not long after I told her that I was pregnant with a boy, rang me in tears begging me not to have Ronan circumcised. She had just seen the plastibell procedure carried out while on a student placement. :crying:

[reAllytee]

Yes i am evil i had my son circumcised, yes i did research it if you think i didnt well hey what can i say thats your view but i still made the decision with my DP to get it done.
Simple.

[Tones]

circumscision.sensitive subject.....none of my 4 boys have been done...I can't stand the thought of my boys going through paaaaain unnecessarily..do they anetheitise thebabies?I didnt think they did.i think it is an unnecesary operation and the boys should be allowed to make up their own minds...my partner just read this and he reckons no one would choose too be circumcised.(he has been)my mums friend was saying the other night when we were talking about this that she had her 1st son done but not her 2nd one done as she didnt want to put another baby though that pain....but this was long ago and none of mine have been done.

so i don't really know how its done these days

but i still think you should leave it up to the child if they want to get it done for whatever rerason.although alot of people get it done for religious reasons.my opinion is you are born the way you are suppose to be.

sorry that was the child when they are grown up........i gotta learn to proof read a little bit

[Mister Noodle]

Yes i am evil i had my son circumcised, yes i did research it if you think i didnt well hey what can i say thats your view but i still made the decision with my DP to get it done.
Simple.

Therefore... what, exactly?

[Tones]

therefore its up to the parent really but i feel sorry for bubs who go through it although i dont really know though cos i have never seen it done and i dont know how they do it nowadays.but in days gone by i know it was not a nice procedure. how do they do it now?

[Mister Noodle]

But why should it be up to the parent?

You can't remove any other part of your child with no medical justification - why this?

[MotherNurture]

Where is it ever suggested that the plastibel method does not involve cutting/trimming?

I have read it MANY times, both on this forum or others. It seems to be a common misconception about the Plastibell procedure specifically. Here's are two recent examples, by two different posters, in two different threads:

"my son is circed...and these days they dont "cut" anything... they tie a peice of string around it and it falls off in a few days.. and he had numbing cream on..." (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=39329&page=2)

"Also these days a lot of doctors can perform circs without using scalpels and do not cut the foreskin at all, the plastibell method allows for simply the skin to fall off and there is no blood, is painless (from what I have read) and there is no risk of it going back too far as it is in perfect alignment." (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=41813&page=3)

In another thread here or somewhere else very recently I heard circumcision with the Plastibell compared with the way a bull is castrated; basically, the skin is tied, the tissue dies, and then simply 'falls off'.

Also, I worked in a hospital birth center and the consent form for circumcision was the same regardless of the method, and I don't think it really mentioned "cutting" at all, it referred to removal of the foreskin. It was only 1/2 page long.

Regardless of what the consent form actually says though, it's the physician's duty to make sure they understand it before he/she performs the procedure.

Clearly, many parents don't understand the nature of the Plastibell procedure.

Jen

[MotherNurture]

I think the cutting is done to avoid an injury to the area post op. I think it could really be done without cutting, (I am saying this because the incised foreskin that is left past the plastibel falls off sometime after the procedure) but it is not because it is recommended and procedural to do so. Are there any medical professionals who could verify if cutting is required other than a sensible precaution.

Yes, well, can I make a suggestion? If you looked into "necrotizing fasciitis" resulting from plastibell circumcision it might be a real eye-opener.

The literature from Hollister, the manufacturer of the Plastibell device (see the first link to a drawing and description of the procedure from Hollister) makes it clear that a dorsal slit is crushed and cut and the foreskin trimmed off after the ligature is tied in place. It does not appear to be presented as optional. I'd imagine in addtion to the risk of serious infection, the odor resulting from leaving an entire dead foreskin hanging there until it disintegrated enough to fully detach would be highly offensive.

Jen

[serendipity22]

In some circles a rumour is going around that Plastibell is new.

Plastibell was invented by Hollister in 1950, not that long after
the popular Gomco clamp and the Mogen clamp devices.

1950 is hardly new.

[circangel]

I have read on a website from a prominent centre that performs circumcisions that there is no cutting involved. If this is not true why is someone not responding to have this ammended?

[MotherNurture]

I have read on a website from a prominent centre that performs circumcisions that there is no cutting involved. If this is not true why is someone not responding to have this ammended?

I've provided evidence-from the manufacturer of the device, even-that proves cutting is involved. I've also worked in a hospital birth center where I've seen circumcisions by all three (gomco, mogen, plastibell) methods performed.

I think a better question is whatwould motivate a centre to lie to parents or to imply that it's virtually painless and/or doesn't require cutting. M$O$N$E$Y perhaps? I would be very appreciative if you would PM me the link to the page where this 'prominent centre' makes this claim. Thanks a bunch.

Jen

[StrawberryTheMilkshake]

Kind of makes me happy i had a girl :rolleyes:

[rynosmum]

Please stick to the OP of the Plastibell method.

This is not a thread to debate whether or not you agree with circumcision, it is to discuss the Plastibell method specifically.

Please keep this thread on topic.

[Can I?]

The more I find out about the procedures and information surrounding circumcision in this country the more disgusted I become. I can't believe that there are clinics falsely selling it as pain free or with no cutting, or using drugs that are not approved for use on infants. It is appalling. :thumbsdown:

[xkwzit]

I (and other mods) have deleted some more offtopic posts.

One last time - this thread is about the plastibell method specifically. It is not a thread to debate the rights and wrongs of circumcision, as we already have plenty of those, or you can always start another. Anymore off topic posts and this thread will be closed.

Cheers

[serendipity22]

I stumbled across this website at
http://extraonline.com.au/stories/story/11404.html

Media reports like this have no doubt gone a long way to fuel rumours that Plastibell surgery is new, doesn't involve cutting and is painless.
(All nonsense of course)

Ive selected 3 paragraphs with comments in brackets.

************************************************** ******


Now when most males think circumcision, they think scalpel and lots of pain. But Dr Russell uses a new pain-free technique which uses a thing called a PlastiBell and high-grade anaesthetic cream. "It is being promoted in Africa as being a 'no-cut circumcision'." Basically the PlastiBell fits inside the foreskin and is clamped around the outside with surgical string. Days later the unwanted foreskin literally falls off. It's the kind of procedure baby Jackson underwent when he was just two weeks old.

"I am sure, like anything, it is not going to be totally pain free. You have a local anaesthetic for a dental extraction - that is pretty painful both at the time and subsequently." Dr David Wood is a leading paediatrician - he disputes Dr Russell's figures that circumcision is on the rise in Queensland. "It is a practice that I don't recommend.

Dr Terry Russell practices a "pain free" technique using a Plastibell. It is recommended for boys from new borns to 12 years of age [by Terry Russell]. It attracts a medicare rebate. However circumcision is not recommended by the Royal Australian College of Physicians unless for (immediate) medical reasons.

[rynosmum]

Due to two more argumentative posts needing to be removed, this thread is now going to be closed.