Welfare dependant parents setting their children up for failure...

[V8]

Article (http://www.couriermail.com.au/money/money-matters/welfare-dependent-parents-set-their-children-up-for-failure-federal-government-report-finds/story-fn3hskur-1226118725217) -

So it's coming into affect in Logan and Rockhampton, i wonder what the repurcussions of this will be?

[AliG]

OK so we are on welfare for about half of each year and I am considering private school does that make me a bad Mum. And DH loves his girls and takes them everywhere is he a bad dad. I hate steriotyping

[Lateralus]

At the risk of opening up a can of whoop@rse.. The article is talking about the outcomes of a study.. Not basing their case on a stereotype or generalisation!

I honestly don't think it's such a bad idea.. Helps to break the cycle of welfare & gives people more access to employment, services and education. Although 6 months after bub is born seems a little too soon..

[MsMummy]

The article is very emotive, but statistically growing up in a household where nobody works increases the child's chances of being welfare dependant as an adult.

But I don't think a "stick" approach is ideal or necessarily effective. I would rather see the "carrot" approach where there there are incentives, like study being paid for or bonuses or something.

I think unemployment issues are complex, and the dole bludger stereotype is awful. My partner has worked in job network for about 10 years, mostly with people unemployed for at least 12 months. Most of them have some barrier, not just laziness. That's why just threatening to cut off payments is unfair as some people just can't meet these more onerous requirements.

[codswallop]

i think if we offer real, choices then its fantastic!
but if the choices on offer are like the ones now????

[Azurial]

Well at last..... its so obvious to me that many children of people who are long term benefit receivers grow up with little to no work ethic and little to no desire to break the cycle for themselves. Of course there are always exceptions as with everything.

I get so annoyed with people who I know who tell me how much they would love to get some work but only as long as it X amount, cash and doesnt interfere with their payments or they earn over $600 a week and only work school hours.... its just so wrong and there is little to no incentive for them to get off benefits.

I hope this can work and make some changes for the better.......

[spoon]

I think it is disgraceful that the Author of this article has used a report to bash people who are living below the poverty line. Absolutely disgraceful that our gaze is on the people who have had the worst cards in life dealt to them instead of looking at our financial system and policy making framework that has taken from the poor and given to the rich. The third sector (charitable and welfare sector) need to evolve and become more financially viable and independent from government funding, and we as a population need to ask why we accept such a massive and ever growing gap between rich and poor. We have a minimum wage yeah? So why on earth do we not have a maximum wage? Disgraceful.

[DaddyLarge]

As I said when this was first announced in the budget, I think that it's a positive thing for all concerned. I'm glad that we live in a country that is there to support people in rough situations, but perpetuating the welfare dependency cycle is doing a massive disservice to both the community and the individuals involved - especially the children.

Hopefully the pilot scheme is run well, and hopefully it is expanded soon.

[bumMum]

I am in one of the targetted areas and am going to involved in bringing in some of these changes possibly (as community worker) and I believe it will be a very positive thing. For example where I live young girls with babies will be visited to set up education pathway plans and have a lot of support and assistance. Long term unemployment is such an entrenched problem in some places. Those who are skeptical are probably quite middle class and don't see the lives some people live. There is a lot more work being done to make this work, and I think it will. One of the biggest challenges will be childcare places and affordability.

[V8]

The thing that gets me is the system just goes about things the wrong way, sure there's probably a fair few that see their parents not working and perpetuate the welfare cycle, but what if their parents do have legitimate reasons. I look at my situation, we will soon have 3 kids, my husband only works 8 hours a week because he has a disability, i have fibromyalgia and am DH's full time carer. Essentially we don't work, but we have a mortgage and send our kids to private school, so it's a pretty weird set up but i would hate that my kids think we sit pretty and then don't want to work etc. I also think the system disadvantages those that do want to work and they should provide more incentives to do so, rather than implement harsh penalties for not meeting their criteria to receive benefits. I can see why some wouldn't work when there is no incentive or benefit to doing so. How about they supplement low income earners or something so they still receive partial benefits while retraining or doing volunteer work, anything that helps them gain skills rather than penalise them. This particular case with parents being forced into employment or study while their child is 6 months old is utterly appalling, how is that going to be an advantage to their child?? Why not wait till they are older?

[bumMum]

Nobody is going to be forced to work with a six month old baby. At all.its more complicated than that but its not about working or studying but setting up pathways so that unemployment is not the outcome

[DaddyLarge]

I think it is disgraceful that the Author of this article has used a report to bash people who are living below the poverty line. Absolutely disgraceful that our gaze is on the people who have had the worst cards in life dealt to them instead of looking at our financial system and policy making framework that has taken from the poor and given to the rich. The third sector (charitable and welfare sector) need to evolve and become more financially viable and independent from government funding, and we as a population need to ask why we accept such a massive and ever growing gap between rich and poor. We have a minimum wage yeah? So why on earth do we not have a maximum wage? Disgraceful.

What's disgraceful about recognising that being raised in a welfare-dependent household is the greatest indicator of future welfare dependency?

This scheme is designed to ensure that the children of welfare-dependent households are dealt a BETTER hand in the future. Far from being disgraceful, I see it as being one of the best things we can do for the next generations.

I wholeheartedly support the idea of progressive taxation and shifting the tax burden upwards, but the idea of a maximum wage would decimate innovation and prosperity.

Off topic somewhat, but there is also a very strange juxtaposition between this sort of idea and finishing your posts with a quote on the benefits of perseverance made by a capitalist industrialist - particularly one who became a lightning rod for the corporate idea of human life having a finite monetary value.

[nothanksbye]

I can see the point of it. I do think they need more education so that job opportunities are greater and they have more choice.
But it makes me mad that it will be the girls put through this, while the boys/men can walk away.

If we can make deadbeat dads, join the army then i am all for that one..

thats....a.....joke....btw.

[Fuchsia!]

I wish they would fund parents, especially single parents courses. I can't do any courses because they cost way to much. I can't work unless i do these courses.

I don't mind them bringing in things to help out people on welfare, but they ideas they bring in are usually stupid and not ideal for those in the situation.

They need to talk to people on welfare, spend time with them and see what would benefit them.

Parenting courses? Pfft what a joke! And activities? Im guessing some type of course? I hope they will be allowed to bring their young babies with them to these things.

I would feel mighty ****ed off if i were made to do parenting courses just because im on welfare. I think there is a high majority of non welfare participants that need those courses more then those on welfare.

I also think those deadbeat dads that dodge the system need to do the same courses and perhaps focus more on them getting jobs.

Maybe a lot of single mothers don't want to work while they have young kids at home, are mothers with a working husband the only ones that have the choice of being SAHMs?

I do not intend to work until both my kids are at school, and even then it would most likely be part time because i will need to work school hours.

[twotrunks]

Nobody is going to be forced to work with a six month old baby. At all.its more complicated than that but its not about working or studying but setting up pathways so that unemployment is not the outcome

Thanks for speaking as someone with actual experience, I work as a parent educator and wish we had some way in my area of encouraging people into education... At least where you are the ones who need help will actually get it. Good luck

[Azurial]

I wish they would fund parents, especially single parents courses. I can't do any courses because they cost way to much. I can't work unless i do these courses.

I don't mind them bringing in things to help out people on welfare, but they ideas they bring in are usually stupid and not ideal for those in the situation.

They need to talk to people on welfare, spend time with them and see what would benefit them.

Parenting courses? Pfft what a joke! And activities? Im guessing some type of course? I hope they will be allowed to bring their young babies with them to these things.

I would feel mighty ****ed off if i were made to do parenting courses just because im on welfare. I think there is a high majority of non welfare participants that need those courses more then those on welfare.

I also think those deadbeat dads that dodge the system need to do the same courses and perhaps focus more on them getting jobs.

Maybe a lot of single mothers don't want to work while they have young kids at home, are mothers with a working husband the only ones that have the choice of being SAHMs?

I do not intend to work until both my kids are at school, and even then it would most likely be part time because i will need to work school hours.

I'm doing an online book keeping course, it was $650. There is a pay as you go option and you could start a little bookeeping business with it and then go on to study more in the same area...

It is doable.

[Fuchsia!]

I'm doing an online book keeping course, it was $650. There is a pay as you go option and you could start a little bookeeping business with it and then go on to study more in the same area...

It is doable.
Thats nice. The course i need to do is $2500. I can't afford that, even pay as you go. My budget has no room at all for any, its enough for bills and food.

[twotrunks]

I think there is a high majority of non welfare participants that need those courses more then those on welfare.

.

Fuchsia parenting courses don't have to be seen as an insult to out skills, they are about recognizing strengths
And enhancing them. Most of us
Would benefit from doing a few.

[TurnedBatty]

I do think there won't be a broad enough range in these 'pathways'. I remember asking centrelink for help finding a job. I got locked into a look for work contract that saw me having to travel to the job place twice a week to look for jobs, and each time I HAD to apply for Atleast three jobs (regardless of what they were) and I was offered courses such as "how to communicate" and "dressing for the work place", or something like that. Courses I wanted to do, through Oren or tafe or the community college, I was told they wouldn't help me with. The pathways need to be helping people get into a job or path of study right for them, I think it would make a huge difference in their work motivation.

[nothanksbye]

Yes I do agree.

I am 36 and have 3 kids and I have to say, i have done and will do more parenting courses.
Our school runs them every tuesday night for $5
I think they are awesome and dont feel any shame in saying I do them.

I also did a marriage course and will do another..
I think anything that empowers you to challenge and think about parenting and your relationship with your children , is an amazing thing.

[bumMum]

I think people need to calm down. The parenting courses are not really "parenting courses" for bad parents. They are like adult education classes, and access to things like ngala and the smith family and a playgroup type atmosphere. It is not forced participation, and in the areas this is coming to, it is very applicable. Childcare, as I said, is obviously still a great barrier. the programme I am involved in will have creche just there so mums can breastfeed, settle sad babies etc. This is the ideal anyway. The government is working with people in the communities and trying to find out what peoples needs are. It is not some one size fits all approach (from what I know)

[Fuchsia!]

Fuchsia parenting courses don't have to be seen as an insult to out skills, they are about recognizing strengths
And enhancing them. Most of us
Would benefit from doing a few.

For sure if people think they need to or want to enhance their skills, then sure. But being made compulsory because they are on welfare is an insult to peoples parenting. We all know the sterotypes amongst those on welfare. We see it all the time here on BH.

Welfare doesn't eqaul ****ty parenting. ****ty parenting comes from all walks of life. And making it compulsory to those on welfare is more or less saying "hey your on welfare so that means you are probably a really bad parent"

Im an awesome parent, its probably the one thing im excellent at. To be made to do a parenting class would be just ridiculous.

They are throwing a one size fit all approach because they are lazy and don't want to put in the time to actually sit down and work out what needs to be done.

I can think of at least 10 things that would help those on benefits get a good education and get them off benefits at least part time and even full time.

One size fits all approach is a really cr@ppy way of doing it because....we don't all fit the same size shoe obviously.

I don't need parenting classes, i also don't need little activites in education. I need help in paying for course, better childcare and community support.

If i had my course that i needed to do paid for me, i would be off benefits almost straight away.

I also know if they started to pull up fathers who aren't paying for their children properly would also save the government money.

They also need better training places in rural areas. My Tafe here is absolutely useless. They have hardly any course at all.

[DaddyLarge]

Maybe a lot of single mothers don't want to work while they have young kids at home, are mothers with a working husband the only ones that have the choice of being SAHMs?

Not necessarily. But the difference in the choices available to those who have a self-funded lifestyle to those who don't just isn't a valid comparison.

More to the point, the best possible way to ensure that the future generations of parents DO have those choices is to ensure that they have the best chances of not being welfare-dependent themselves. This initiative is a vital element of breaking that cycle.

I don't believe that an able bodied parent being supported in staying at home for the entire childhood is an inalienable right that one can demand of the community. It may be an inviting lifestyle choice - and may even be a preferable one - but it isn't a right.

[Fuchsia!]

Yes I do agree.

I am 36 and have 3 kids and I have to say, i have done and will do more parenting courses.
Our school runs them every tuesday night for $5
I think they are awesome and dont feel any shame in saying I do them.

I also did a marriage course and will do another..
I think anything that empowers you to challenge and think about parenting and your relationship with your children , is an amazing thing.
Thats great if you enjoy them, but i can do all that without compulsory courses.


I do think there won't be a broad enough range in these 'pathways'. I remember asking centrelink for help finding a job. I got locked into a look for work contract that saw me having to travel to the job place twice a week to look for jobs, and each time I HAD to apply for Atleast three jobs (regardless of what they were) and I was offered courses such as "how to communicate" and "dressing for the work place", or something like that. Courses I wanted to do, through Oren or tafe or the community college, I was told they wouldn't help me with. The pathways need to be helping people get into a job or path of study right for them, I think it would make a huge difference in their work motivation.

Totally agree!

[feelinglucky]

All I can think is where was the government when for medical reasons I missed my senior study test which means I did not finish year 12 because there was only 1 day you could do it, and if you missed it then stiff ****? I could of finished year 12 if I had not missed that day after a year of full-time study for 11/12. They need to look into things like that which allow people to slip through the cracks in the system also, not just force young people into study. How about assisting us in actually finishing huh?

[Ana Gram]

Hmm welfare recipients and limited choices, the topic seems vaguely familiar.

Honestly, in essence the idea is great however the application of it quite often falls flat. They should fix the problems with what is happening currently for women (single parents are predominantly women before anyone pitches a fit.) trying to get off welfare.

I'm all for breaking the cycle but as someone who is actually in it, it is a constant uphill battle with Centrelink who change the rules every 5 seconds . it is ridiculously hard.

[bumMum]

Hmm welfare recipients and limited choices, the topic seems vaguely familiar.

Honestly, in essence the idea is great however the application of it quite often falls flat. They should fix the problems with what is happening currently for women (single parents are predominantly women before anyone pitches a fit.) trying to get off welfare.

I'm all for breaking the cycle but as someone who is actually in it, it is a constant uphill battle with Centrelink who change the rules every 5 seconds . it is ridiculously hard.

Absolutely and that is what IS meant to happen with the new system. It is about sitting down and speaking to people and working out what their barriers are, what their aspirations are, and how to support every indiviual. Its actually going to take a lot of manpower from what I know and I think if it plays out the way its being talked about, it will be excellent.

[Ana Gram]

Absolutely and that is what IS meant to happen with the new system. It is about sitting down and speaking to people and working out what their barriers are, what their aspirations are, and how to support every indiviual. Its actually going to take a lot of manpower from what I know and I think if it plays out the way its being talked about, it will be excellent.

Nice in theory. Unfortunately for me, Centrelink has effed things up good and proper. Half way through my degree they have decided to tell me they may not approve my study next year. Which will not only have completely wasted two years of study leaving me with a massive debt but places me back at square one and increasing my likelihood of remaining in poverty.

Another area they need to change is the JET system. It's useless. Only 2 years when a university degree takes 3.

[Ana Gram]

I would love the government to pay my HECS bill. But guess what? I chose to further my education in order to have an awesome career so I'll pay for it!



yes, I would love that too. But like you, I have to pay my HECS debt.

[confusd]

I havent read the whole thead;

But i think it has more to with the attitude of the parents then the fact they get payments.
I know a few single mums/ familys on payments and they are all studying and trying to get better jobs.

I also know a few familys that arent on any government payments and they tick all the boxes that the study mentioned.

[bumMum]

Nice in theory. Unfortunately for me, Centrelink has effed things up good and proper. Half way through my degree they have decided to tell me they may not approve my study next year. Which will not only have completely wasted two years of study leaving me with a massive debt but places me back at square one and increasing my likelihood of remaining in poverty.

Another area they need to change is the JET system. It's useless. Only 2 years when a university degree takes 3.

I agree jet is rubbish. I do happen to know that you can get approved for jet more than once as long as you do a new activity. This may not help you but for example you can get it once for study, and then if you start a job after a period on welfare you can get it again. So some women will start a part time job when it runs out, to get jet again and still use it when studying. You might already know that though sorry. Why is it that they don't want to approve your study? People think all single mums have state housing, cheap bills, free childcare and do not know the reality that many are living on next to nothing.

[dreadlockfairy]

Honestly I think they should make *all* parents take courses in being good parents if they want to implement this.

I know a lot of extremely wealthy parents who are setting up their kids for failure.

[confusd]

Nice in theory. Unfortunately for me, Centrelink has effed things up good and proper. Half way through my degree they have decided to tell me they may not approve my study next year. Which will not only have completely wasted two years of study leaving me with a massive debt but places me back at square one and increasing my likelihood of remaining in poverty.

Another area they need to change is the JET system. It's useless. Only 2 years when a university degree takes 3.

This is stupid!! They want people to get better jobs and get back into the work force etc etc. But oh wait, she is actually TRYING to do so, so lets just not approve it for her and make it more difficult? :no:

[Ana Gram]

I agree jet is rubbish. I do happen to know that you can get approved for jet more than once as long as you do a new activity. This may not help you but for example you can get it once for study, and then if you start a job after a period on welfare you can get it again. So some women will start a part time job when it runs out, to get jet again and still use it when studying. You might already know that though sorry.
Thanks for that :) I didn't know that. I don't need JET as my child is school age but for other mums this would be good to know. Half the trouble is that we constantly get conflicting information during phone calls and meetings with the department. One person says one thing, you talk to someone else and they give you different information that contradicts what you have already been told. Can be incredibly frustrating!


Why is it that they don't want to approve your study? People think all single mums have state housing, cheap bills, free childcare and do not know the reality that many are living on next to nothing.

Oh who knows *sigh* They approved it for parenting payment but may not for AUSTUDY. I really think they should have told me that before I started.

Thank you for recognising some of the real challenges we face. I'm unsure why people think we spend our days rolling around in all the money we get.

[confusd]

It means that from 2012, teenage parents in Logan and Rockhampton with a child aged six months or older, and receiving the parenting payment, will have to undertake compulsory activities that teach them to be better parents or boost their education.

And with this, who will be watching their kids? It was so hard to get a childcare place for DD when i went back to work, and even when i was still getting my discount, childcare still cost me over $70 a week. I hope at least some of these activities are child friendly!

[2darlingboys]

I've learned to realise yes I will be depending on CL for few years of my life to help support me & my children.
I am studying at the same time whilst having my kids full time & by myself.
I have the next 40years to "pay back" the government through my taxes for the money I have received. I am going to enjoy my children when they young.

& with the OP I think 6months is way too young. A year would be better or even make studying cheaper in QLD.
I know nsw is $50 for full course & QLD they just take $50 off!

[bumMum]

And with this, who will be watching their kids? It was so hard to get a childcare place for DD when i went back to work, and even when i was still getting my discount, childcare still cost me over $70 a week. I hope at least some of these activities are child friendly!

This is very poorly worded in the article I think.

[2darlingboys]

And with this, who will be watching their kids? It was so hard to get a childcare place for DD when i went back to work, and even when i was still getting my discount, childcare still cost me over $70 a week. I hope at least som
e of these activities are child
friendly!

Prob go to top of waiting lists & receive jet

[feelinglucky]

There are pathways for people who have missed exams/study for legitimate reasons, be it medical or otherwise. All students who have attended at least 80% of their year 12 classes and obtained passes in their assessments can still pass their year 12 course without having to sit the exam if there are extenuating circumstances.

In the course I did there was no assessment just the final exam at the end of the year. That is being fixed and if I enrol again there will be assessments not just the final exam just wish that when I did it two years ago something could of been done but I was told(wrongly or rightly) that I could not get around it.

I will be doing it again though as year 12 is something I want to have done!

I know when I went back to study I got a grant of $1200(or something) from Centrelink to help in my return to study, Anyone that wants to should look it up on the website and see if they will be eligible as I'm sure it would help greatly to pay for courses or any other expense if you want to study but can't find the money! :yes:

[feelinglucky]

bummum - do you know if those in the group that will be doing it first will have to still undertake the mentioned things if they are already studying year 12 at the time the government program starts?

[feelinglucky]

I know when I went back to study I got a grant of $1200(or something) from Centrelink to help in my return to study, Anyone that wants to should look it up on the website and see if they will be eligible as I'm sure it would help greatly to pay for courses or any other expense if you want to study but can't find the money! :yes:

I just looked and I think I might of only got it for being under 18, however if the government extended it to others it would do wonders for people.

http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/edep_eligible.htm - $208 payment that Parents can get, while not much it's a start

[bumMum]

bummum - do you know if those in the group that will be doing it first will have to still undertake the mentioned things if they are already studying year 12 at the time the government program starts?

Nobody actually knows all the ins and outs yet, but you would think studying year 12 would be above and beyond what is expected

[Azurial]

Thats nice. The course i need to do is $2500. I can't afford that, even pay as you go. My budget has no room at all for any, its enough for bills and food.

Could you look at doing something along the same lines to generate some extra income so you could pay off the other course with money from that? If those pics in the cake decorating thread were yours then why the hell arent you starting a little photography business???????!!!!!!!???? Or going to markets and selling cup cakes???? I do a monthly market where 2 women sell cupcakes for $4 each and last time they only had about 4 left at the end of the day! They are my competition so I spy on them and they are doing really well. Everyone loves a cupcake!

[Fuchsia!]

I'm actually looking into doing cupcakes as a business but again, I have no idea how to run a business so would have to do a course! Lol unless I do it off the books but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that.

But I definitely want to do something with cupcakes, or party planning for kids parties and I also love photography but you need set up costs for photography (gear ect).

But I'm looking into it.

I really want to be a teachers aide and possibly move onto becoming a teacher. It fits perfectly because I can work school hours, good money, I can still be with the kids through the day at school and I love kids. But the local tafe does t do the course so would have to do an online course which is huge $$.

I will get there eventually. Just need money!

[TurnedBatty]

Fuchsia have you considered just studying to be a teacher straight up? Open Uni has a primary education course. Also maybe doing a disability cert IV, that can get you into being a teachers aide. I did my cert IV and could work in a disability school now. Just some thoughts, I hate seeing people unable to do what they want!

[Azurial]

A friend of mine does regular market stalls and she only claims a certain amount which is below the Tax free threshold, if she didnt do it this way there would be no point in her getting out of bed in the morning, she has a food stall.

I'm doing the bookeeping course so we can start a little business as a tax right off when dh is home, doing small landscaping jobs. I looked at business courses and they didnt fit the bill and I figured this course would give me the basics. There is also a website called Flying Solo which has some great info about for small business owners and a forum on it too for asking things..... It is doable.

As for photography..... if you have a good eye and photoshop you should be able to do enough to get some income generated. If you dont have PS pm me.

Sorry for the hijack OP ;)

[InBetween]

i wonder what the repurcussions of this will be?

A lot of people moving out of Logan and Rockhampton? *LOL*

Government 'studies' like this amaze me as does their obvious bias towards certain communities. God forbid if they ever thought of targeting New Farm or Highgate Hill. Eew nyew, no "dole bludgers" there!

I do like this push for work in theory. But anyone that's ever been anywhere within cooee of a Job Network Provider knows how bloody hopeless and ineffectual they are. It amazes me how these organisations keep their contracts. But this is how the govt addresses unemployment - by throwing money at someone else to deal with it.


The course i need to do is $2500. I can't afford that, even pay as you go. My budget has no room at all for any, its enough for bills and food.

What course are you doing? Is it in the TAFE system or part of an RTO? In terms of courses, if you have a HCC or haven't achieved a Cert II or III then you may be eligible for productivity places and, at best, a concession. At least in Qld anyway. However, I do know that conditions in NSW for educational concessions are even better.

[ShanandBoc]

Its all well and good in theory except there are not enough jobs or childcare places. They encourage people to have babies with the baby bonus and then practically want to force them into work and have someone else care for their child. I believe one thing is far more important for a child than having both parents working. And thats having one parent at home to raise them and be there for them if possible.

[twotrunks]

I really think everyone should read the posts from the person
Who is going to be helping implement this program... She addresses issues around childcare etc. It is fine to criticize but maybe hear some truth rather than just react to media reports. (sorry on phone cannot find posters name).

[InBetween]

Its all well and good in theory except there are not enough jobs or childcare places.

I can't comment about other states but yes, there are a lot of jobs in Qld and a great family day care network. Also, from what I understand of the proposed program, you aren't forced to work per se but you are required to attend Centrelink to undertake a return to work plan or educational classes AND only if your child has reached a certain age.

So rather than just assume it's a 'work for the dole' scheme or that you'll be forced to dump your kid at daycare forever, it pays to actually read what the govt is proposing prior to commenting.

[ShanandBoc]

Not here, we have a lack of jobs and childcare places. And i did read the proposal.

[elleandsam]

Looks like my kids got lucky and chose the right womb to implant themselves in to ensure they get many years at home with mummy.

Seriously, have you tried to force a teen to do something they don't want to do? This will only disadvantage the children.

I'm all for education for parents, on a voluntary basis. Leave the childcare spaces open for those who want them not just those who are forced to do it.

FWIW I've never had a positive experience with centrelink in person, I've always had comments about my age, about my choice to stay home with my children, about having children so close together, and my only dealings with them has been baby bonus.

[MermaidSister]

This is an old thread, but I just want to say that I was raised on welfare and I am fine. I have been working since I turned 14 + 9 months and was back there after bubs when my babies were each 3 months old.

The fact we never had any money made me WANT to change things. I doubt very much I would have the drive and motivation that I have if everything had just been handed to me.