NCSS not working!

[duckduckgoose]

Everyone on BH knows about my sleepless DS. The reflux is better but still not 100% so after a feed at night (most nights every 2 hours!) I have to rock him for ages while the milk goes down. It is absolutely killing my back as he is 11.8kg (eek!). Feeds + rocking are taking at least an hour, often more. I'm at the point of a physical and mental breakdown. I know the key is to "let go" but physically I can't do this. I feel like vomiting all day from the sleep deprivation and my back hurts so much. And he's just going to get heavier.

If I don't rock him he wakes up crying in pain 2 minutes after I put him down so I think it is the reflux however when I feed him to sleep during the day he doesn't require the rocking, he will go straight into his cot (asleep). This is a bit odd isn't it?

I feel the best option is for DS to learn to self settle, as I think this is causing him to want to feed so often in the night. We have been trying to implement the No Cry Sleep Solution since he was 4 months. It. Is. Not. Working. No :no:

We still can't get past the gentle removal part. He eventually lets
me take my boob out of his mouth but only when he's practically asleep in my arms. Any attempt to put him down awake or drowsy doesn't work. At all. Not even with patting. Or patting then rocking.

(only after a feed, he will go down drowsy after being rocked in the pram very occasionally)

He hasn't really taken to his lovey. I'm going to try buying another one but are there any other ideas? I know I'm inconsistent with the music/ sleepy words. I'm going to try harder to be consistent with that.

Has anyone managed to actually get the NCSS to work? How exactly? How long did it take?

Or is there another, gentle way to teach him to self settle?

[TurnedBatty]

No advice as I don't use it. But lots of :hugs: I hope others have tips

[Just*Ace]

Is he on anything for the reflux? Losec & Mylanta helped my DD so much. I'm not familiar with NCSS but we ended up in Tresillian due to the bad habits we had started with DD (could only sleep in our bed with me next to her, fed 10+ times a night) What we used there was called controlled comforting, it was very gentle. Basically involved wrapping her (she was 6 months) putting her in the cot, giving the dummy then leaving the room. When she cried we went in and did minimal comforting (replaced dummy, stroked forehead, patted tummy) only till she was calm then left the room. If she cried again we repeated it. This was when she cried though, not just whinged. Yes it did take awhile but it worked. When we left Tresillian we drifted back into bad habits, but we eventually fixed it and now she self settles. It does require slot of patience though, I could not have done it without the help there. Good luck with whatever you decide to do

[NoelsMum]

I've been trying to implement a few ncss too. For about 3 months.(ds is 8mo) I know I haven't been as consistent as I should/ need to be for rhs pull out method to work, and not using my sleepy word enough either. Once he's finally asleep I don't wana do anything that'll wake him!

I am really not sure that I will be able to stop or even diminish his sucking to sleep obsession. I no longer revert to doing it during the day, opting instead for pram/ car if I'm out. He had been self settling during the day, which I have worked on for 2months, but got sick so I need to help him again :(
Also for night waking I will try rocking for probably 15-30min before I feed him, I know he isn't hungry, its just comfort/what he relies on to get to sleep.

So I've started taking a bit more of a tough love approach, as I think my window of opportunity has passed, he's getting a little to attached, which is nice, just not 5times a night.

So sorry not much help MH, hopefully others have some more positive stories for us

[duckduckgoose]

Just*ace - yes he is on medication for the reflux and I'm cutting out eggs and dairy. It's much better than it used to be.

Noelmum - are things improving in terms of the number of wakeups? Does the rocking before giving in and feeding ever manage to settle him?

The next baby is getting a dummy for sure...

[SalsaMama]

Apparently a dummy helps babies with reflux as the saliva neutralises their stomach acid.

I'm sorry to hear that things are still difficult MH. It sounds like your DS might be associating the rocking with sleeping and it might be more habitual than the reflux.

I haven't read NCSS, but we started putting DS down awake but sleepy. He would eventually cry and I would pick him up and rock/pat etc (in my arms) until he was calm again, and then put him down. Sometimes it would take a couple of hours. The whole process was mentally and physically draining, but it was really not that much different to what I had been doing with him sleeping in my arms 24/7. It took maybe about 3 weeks before we noticed the most minute change, and then he kind of got better on a daily basis.

Sending you and bub lots of positive, sleepy vibes! :hugs::hugs:

[duckduckgoose]

Apparently a dummy helps babies with reflux as the saliva neutralises their stomach acid.

I'm sorry to hear that things are still difficult MH. It sounds like your DS might be associating the rocking with sleeping and it might be more habitual than the reflux.

I haven't read NCSS, but we started putting DS down awake but sleepy. He would eventually cry and I would pick him up and rock/pat etc (in my arms) until he was calm again, and then put him down. Sometimes it would take a couple of hours. The whole process was mentally and physically draining, but it was really not that much different to what I had been doing with him sleeping in my arms 24/7. It took maybe about 3 weeks before we noticed the most minute change, and then he kind of got better on a daily basis.

Sending you and bub lots of positive, sleepy vibes! :hugs::hugs:

Jensen we are trying exactly that - put down, pick up when crying, then put down again. But after 20 minutes I just go "f--- it" and stick him back on the boob. I'm too tired to see it through and DH is the same. But did it work for you? Maybe I should give it a shot. I've called the parenting centre about getting someone out to help me, but they want me to try filling him up on solids for a week or so first.

Last night he slept 4 hours straight so we have had a few good nights lately :) :) Just finding the rocking for hours very very hard physically, and also the 90% of nights when he is up every 2 hours is just too much for me to take.

[SalsaMama]

4 hours woohoo!!

I would definitely give it a go. We actually started the process about 3 times in a month, but stopped the first two attempts as we didn't see any change after a week and it seemed too hard to continue. I persisted at the third attempt because I physically just could not carry him anymore and was starting to hallucinate because of the sleep deprivation. We did eventually see results so hopefully it might work for you guys too. It took much, much longer than what we had expected.

With regards to the solids, they have definitely helped DS' reflux, but I think once the reflux is managed, they still have all the associations with rocking/patting to sleep. Even when his reflux improved, his sleep was still really cr@p.

We tried the local sleep school but they weren't that helpful and ended up getting a private sleep consultant in the end.

[duckduckgoose]

Did the sleep consultant suggest that method? Did you do it consistently for all sleeps, even in the middle of the night?

I've got to fix this now before he gets heavier and I have a breakdown.

The parenting centre will send someone out to help me here at home which is a good starting point, but if that doesn't work I'll look for a sleep consultant. How did you find one? Yellow pages?

[duckduckgoose]

Oh and what do you do if you put him in the cot and he starts rolling over? Or did you do it before your DS could roll? I've tried just rolling him back with a hand on him to keep him still. Is that right do you think?

[SalsaMama]

The sleep consultant suggested doing it for all sleeps, especially the night ones, as she said that was a great way for the bub to 'practice' self-settling given that everything is dark and quiet. I just didn't have the strength to do it between midnight - 5am, and I would just rock him to sleep.

When DS eventually started self-settling during the day, I started working on getting him to self-settle at night. Within 3 nights he went from waking every 20 mins to sleeping from 7.30pm to 6am. Go figure!

[SalsaMama]

DS doesn't roll, so haven't had that issue. I'm not sure, but I wouldn't really worry about keeping him still. DS sleeps with his arms free and when we put him down now he waves them about crazily like a propeller and talks for a while, and then eventually he puts himself to sleep.

[Bubbles10]

You could try feeding bub lying down on a mattress on the floor, and then sneaking out when he has gone to sleep. It would cut down on the wake ups due to moving him.

[duckduckgoose]

Right. I'm just going to DO IT and persevere and not give up. I have to tell myself it's easier to do it now than in a few month's time, especially if I'm going back to work soon.

Thanks so much for the advice Jensen, this technique is very gentle (on bub at least) and I feel like it could work.

God you sound like you had such a hard time. Waking every 20 minutes, 4 hours sleep in 24, it's amazing what some mums go through! You must have cried in relief the first night he slept through!

[duckduckgoose]

You could try feeding bub lying down on a mattress on the floor, and then sneaking out when he has gone to sleep. It would cut down on the wake ups due to moving him.

He wont feed to sleep lying down. Won't cosleep either.

[NoelsMum]

Things were improving and then with him getting sick we had a 'relapse' back to lots of waking instead of the 10pm and 3am I am happy with.

I thought replacing feeding with rocking would be a step in the right direction, but I think as it still involves me getting him back sleep its not really helping him or me.

Not that I have a solution! Feeding him to sleep right now!

[SalsaMama]

You must have cried in relief the first night he slept through!

My body was so wired to being up all night that for the next couple of weeks I still couldn't sleep! Good luck and I hope it works for you.

[SalsaMama]

The parenting centre will send someone out to help me here at home which is a good starting point, but if that doesn't work I'll look for a sleep consultant. How did you find one? Yellow pages?

The lady we got is pretty well known in Perth. She doesn't advertise and only relies on word of mouth for business. I've since heard of another couple of sleep consultants who don't advertise and only go on recommendations. Maybe you could ask for reccs on here?

[MummySez20]

So interesting to read these posts. I have a 8.5 month old who still wakes up between 2 and 5 times a night. I know he doesn't self settle because I usually hold him in my arms to goto sleep as he was a bad reflux baby. I think we have finally sorted the reflux out and now I tell myself the same things I read on here, I should start getting him to self settle now as he is getting older. Not lately, but upto a few weeks ago through the night I would just cry because he wouldn't goto sleep. I could try putting him in his cot 3 or 4 times and he would always stir and wake up. Lately I have been trying to put him straight back into his cot after he has a bottle (sometimes I try not to give him a bottle but he always ends up waking up not longer then 30 mins later if I don't give it to him) and I just hold him firmly so that he can't roll over as when he does this he starts wriggling and getting frustrated. I think it's the hardest thing I have come to with him.

After reading all these posts I think I might try getting him to self settle through the day and at night, well try harder.

I didn't even know you could get a sleep consultant out to your house - are they expensive? I feel like I'm a bad Mum because he doesn't self settle :(

[Bubbles10]

MummySez20, your bub is still so little! don't stress about 'self settling' at this age, he will get there.

I think bubs who have reflux or colic or other issues, do take a bit longer to get their sleep worked out. Nothing wrong with that. Variety is the spice of life!

[MummySez20]

He used to sleep through though. At about 12 weeks he would sleep from about 8pm until 6am! And his reflux was just as bad then so I'm not sure what happened.

Apart from my GP you are the first person who has said that it's pretty much normal for him to be waking up alot still - it makes me feel better :) Thank you!

Health Nurses, friends and family all tell me he should sleep better. A distant relative has a baby 2 weeks older then DS and she took her to a sleep clinic but I could never do that hearing how they got her baby to self settle. They just let her cry (they told her it was ok to do so for upto 2 hours) her DD even cried that much she made herself sick. I could never do that I'm way too much of a softy :( I just keeping telling myself he will sleep through one day lol.

[Bluest Blue Box]

I didn't use ncss. I used a book called babybliss by jo ryan. When taking away the dummy I tried gentle removal for 3 days then on the 4th day I stopped using it during the day. He grizzled for 20 minnows while I patted him then fell asleep. After that I only had to use it sometimes until it was completely gone. At night he used to sleep 7-7 with 2 feeds and self settle in between then started waking more frequently and I was feeding him. He would fall asleep, then I wouldn't be able to burp him so he'd wake 1.5 hours later and the only way to get him back to sleep was feeding and this went on all night. Since he's been settling really well with patting during the day, i decided last night to pat him if he woke up less than 3 hours after a feed. It worked! Tonight he's gotten up once for a feed and he's just talking to himself in the cot at the moment. It's taken us 10 weeks to get here from only sleeping in my arms and rocking for hours at night.
Hope things get better for you soon.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Bubhub

[trishalishous]

You could try feeding bub lying down on a mattress on the floor, and then sneaking out when he has gone to sleep. It would cut down on the wake ups due to moving him.

This is what works for us, and now DH will lay down with her at bedtime, if she doesnt want b00bie.
It also means that I can feed back to sleep if she wakes over night, without getting up :)
Pity your DS isnt keen on it :(