huh? Can someone confirm this for me

[pennylane]

Ok so,I dont want to start a debate or anything but I just wanted to see if anyone can confirm if Im correct or not.

SO,Im due to have a baby boy in just under 6 weeks.We will not be circing as it's not something we feel is necessary and my DH isnt (tmi-sorry DH lol) but because this is my first boy I wasnt sure if thats something the hospital will ask me about when I birth so I asked my friends on FB if I need to tell the hospital we arent doing it.

Anyway,got the answer I was after but someone on my fb (a general person I know through work not a friend per say) has just had a baby girl and wrote a comment "are you considering circing because I am for *****,just not sure whens the right time.."

***** is a girl.

Female circumcision has been illegal by legislation in Australia since the 90's am I right because thats what I just told her and it's started quite a debate on my fb.Just want to make sure I was actually correct in what I said.To my knowledge,it is also illegal to leave Australia to have it done and then return to AUS ??

[Silverspoon]

I don't think the hospy will ask you for your plans regarding circ- you'd have to organise it with a specialist yourself if that's what you wanted ( which you don't).

Wow with the person on facebook!!! Are they for real?

Yes, it's illegal in Australia where do they plan to get it done?

Sorry link didn't work.

[pennylane]

Oh were not circing,I just wasnt sure If Im supposed to tell them that :) but I got told its not done in hospital anymore so It's all good.

Yes they were for real but I'd say from the reaction they got off people that read it,their mind has been changed.Yikes

[Silverspoon]

That's good then...!

[bellalika]

Maybe they just didn't realise what a female circ was or involved?


Sorry, I'm iPhone-lexic

[pennylane]

No,they know what it entails.I asked why it was a consideration and they said it wasnt a religious choice (I thought maybe,because she's from Malaysia but living in Australia and it might be a cultural/religiousl thing) but for 'hygenic reasons'

[*Cj*]

I would ask who she is getting to do it. I wouldn't think she could find a Dr in Australia who would even think about doing it.

[pennylane]

She hasnt found anyone.Her baby is still in the special care nursery as she was prem.She was just saying she's been considering it.She didnt have a clue it was illegal here.

[Janesmum123]

There are still doctors that do female circ in Australia privately. I know that for a fact. There are also doctors that can make you a virgin again. You would be surprised what goes on.

[pennylane]

wow :eek: I just read an article on it being done in a pretty underground/backyard sort of way here and little ones being rushed to hospital due to complications from it.I didnt even fathom that would be going on here until today...

[second baby not so easy]

I would think mayby she was turning it around in a reverse psychology way, as majority of people in Australia is against female circumcison and it is not an active practise in Australia, while male circumcison was very popular years ago. As some peoples arguments are if you agree with male circumcision its the same as female circumcison. this didnt really come out right :laughing: she may just be putting a different spin on it, which I think is a really good way to look at it differently.

Regarding male circumcison we were never given an option to do ds1, which we didnt want anyways, but have had a few friends who have gotten it done they have just to go through a different dr. My OB does not agree with it at all and will not do it

[pennylane]

I would think mayby she was turning it around in a reverse psychology way, as majority of people in Australia is against female circumcison and it is not an active practise in Australia, while male circumcison was very popular years ago. As some peoples arguments are if you agree with male circumcision its the same as female circumcison. this didnt really come out right :laughing: she may just be putting a different spin on it, which I think is a really good way to look at it differently.

Regarding male circumcison we were never given an option to do ds1, which we didnt want anyways, but have had a few friends who have gotten it done they have just to go through a different dr. My OB does not agree with it at all and will not do it

Um...no lol She genuinely wanted to know if I was getting my son done because she was considering getting her daughter done.She didn't know it wasn't an active practice.In fact,she was completely unaware that is is considered a form of mutilation here and has been outlawed.Like I said,she is not an Australian citizen so that may have contributed to her not knowing its not done here legally.After I made her aware of the laws though she's now said she wont be considering it as an option because she didnt know it wasn't legal.

But no,no reverse psychology.It was genuine. :)

[zombiekitty]

Someone would circumcise their daughter, here, in Australia, without religion or cultural reasons AND there are doctors out there that would actually do it????
I think I'm about to faint.

[The Fox]

No doctor can legally do it. It's illegal. Not sure what tar you are in OP but if your in Vic you will find it under s32 of the crimes act VIC 1958.

[megs legs]

Whoa!! It barely crosses our mind when we had our son. The only reason it was even a back thought was because a friend was getting her son done.. He ended up in hospital with a bleed and had a huge blister for months. :/ turns out he was a hemophiliac.
There's no way I'd ever have thought about female circ!! In my mind it's something that was done in Muslim countries years and years ago ( sorry if I'm incorrect, that's just what's in my mind)
Crazy! I bet you and everyone else on your fb was totally in shock.

[pennylane]

No doctor can legally do it. It's illegal. Not sure what tar you are in OP but if your in Vic you will find it under s32 of the crimes act VIC 1958.

Im in WA.Yes I told her it was illegal but I wasn't quite sure if that had changed because she was saying there was pamphlets on it in the hospital shes in which freaked me out because Im birthing there but I've sinced confirmed that the pamphlets referred to male circing but she assumed it meant she could circ her daughter too if she wanted to.

Oh and thanks for the info :)

[pennylane]

Whoa!! It barely crosses our mind when we had our son. The only reason it was even a back thought was because a friend was getting her son done.. He ended up in hospital with a bleed and had a huge blister for months. :/ turns out he was a hemophiliac.
There's no way I'd ever have thought about female circ!! In my mind it's something that was done in Muslim countries years and years ago ( sorry if I'm incorrect, that's just what's in my mind)
Crazy! I bet you and everyone else on your fb was totally in shock.

We are the same,I hadn't even thought about it until last night when I realised it might be something people ask me about since were having a boy so I wanted to make sure it's something I vocally decline if I needed to.(wasn't sure if its something they do at the hospital etc' as I've only had baby girls) and I don't have any circ'd relatives so I had no-one to ask.

You wouldn't believe the amount of private messages I got from my friends freaking out when they read it.It's just not something any of us had thought someone would want or considering doing...

[Bibs]

OP I'm really glad you set your FB friend straight about the female circ. Youd did a great thing there :)

Seriously the fact that someone was thinking about it makes me shudder. She really isn't going to go through it is she? Could you influence her more by telling her how dangerous it is please and the damage it could do to her little girl's body. I know you've already told her it's illegal but maybe she doesn't realise how gruesome it is and what is actually involved :(

[brogeybear]

OMG! That is horrific. I am in utter shock that there are people, doctors who would actually perform this. Surely not? No! ARGH!

[themissingpiece]

Just a thought... Does this mean this lady is circed herself? Otherwise why would she consider it culturally significant?
Horrifying.

[pennylane]

OP I'm really glad you set your FB friend straight about the female circ. Youd did a great thing there :)

Seriously the fact that someone was thinking about it makes me shudder. She really isn't going to go through it is she? Could you influence her more by telling her how dangerous it is please and the damage it could do to her little girl's body. I know you've already told her it's illegal but maybe she doesn't realise how gruesome it is and what is actually involved :(

She has said she wont be considering it now after Ive done her it's illegal and that its considered mutilation here.I think the word 'mutilation' freaked her out a bit.I am hoping she's a bit enlightened now.

Her little girl will more than likely still be in the special care nursery when I birth DS,It would probably be way over-stepping the line if I asked one of the Dr's to have a chat with her hey? I mean,not have a go at her or anything but maybe just give her some reading on it because she genuinely wanted to know WHY it was illegal and maybe hearing it from a medical professional would make it easier to understand?

[pennylane]

Just a thought... Does this mean this lady is circed herself? Otherwise why would she consider it culturally significant?
Horrifying.

I have no idea.I have only met her once in real life.Im a photographer and shes only on my FB because I was going to shoot her wedding so she added me to keep in touch as she post-poned and we kept in touch because her baby was due around the same time as mine is.

She wasn't interesting in circ for cultural reason,I thought so maybe initially but she told me she was considering it for hygene reasons.

[Bubbles10]

Crimes Act 1958 - SECT 32

Offence to perform female genital mutilation32. Offence to perform female genital mutilation(1) A person must not perform female genital mutilation on a child.Penalty: Level 4 imprisonment (15 years maximum).(2) A person must not perform on a person other than a child any type offemale genital mutilation referred to in paragraphs (a) to (e) of thedefinition of female genital mutilation.Penalty: Level 4 imprisonment (15 years maximum).

I wonder if some level of female circumcision is still legal due to not meeting the definition of female genital mutilation?

[Bibs]

Her little girl will more than likely still be in the special care nursery when I birth DS,It would probably be way over-stepping the line if I asked one of the Dr's to have a chat with her hey? I mean,not have a go at her or anything but maybe just give her some reading on it because she genuinely wanted to know WHY it was illegal and maybe hearing it from a medical professional would make it easier to understand?

I think that's a great idea and you wouldn't be over-stepping cause it would come from the doctors.

[2darlingboys]

Hospitals won't even mention circum. Unless they are just being nosey.

& I'm glad you set that lady straight

[Gandalf]

I wonder if some level of female circumcision is still legal due to not meeting the definition of female genital mutilation?
i don't have the legal act in front of me - but i've been told that its illegal to perform any kind of circumcision on females (including a 'ritual cut' in lieu of a full circumcision) - its also illegal to take your child out of the country and have them circumcised overseas.

[technically since its illegal to pierce the female genitalia in anyway, i'm still not entirely sure whether this makes genital piercings technically illegal :confused::p ]

i hope for this woman that you didn't have any mandatory reporters on your facebook page.

[pennylane]

None that I'm aware.But,she was only asking about it out of genuine un-awareness that it was illegal.I dont think she was setting out to consider it from a place of harm.I think some people who are from other countries maybe just don't know how much of a 'no-no' it is? :confused: I really don't know.

[megs legs]

OP I'm really glad you set your FB friend straight about the female circ. Youd did a great thing there :)

Seriously the fact that someone was thinking about it makes me shudder. She really isn't going to go through it is she? Could you influence her more by telling her how dangerous it is please and the damage it could do to her little girl's body. I know you've already told her it's illegal but maybe she doesn't realise how gruesome it is and what is actually involved :(

See I feel this way about male circ too.. I seriously don't see why people want to do that to their children! DS had complete tongue tie and I was horrified when they told
Me they correct it with a scalpel!!! We went to a private dentist who specialises in frenectomies with a laserz he was over an hour and a half away ad had to pay $600. Didn't get anything back from Medicare or phi. It was a horrible thing to go through and it was a necessity for him as he could not feed..

[mumma inky]

Great point megs legs, I wonder why it's only called mutilation when it applies to girls and not boys?
On another note there are actually women who chose to have plastic surgery to have a labioplasty to have their labia reduced, I for one hope this does not become too much of a trend and have people considering having it done to young children as male circumcision is done!

[trishalishous]

grr my reply was eaten!
Im guessing your friend is Malay, OP?
Yes this is a common practice in SouthEastAsia. In my experience the most common form of FC is a 2-3mm nick of the clitoris hood. Less cutting than a male circumcision, and nothing is actually removed.
Apparently it hurts as much as having your ears pierced (many converts will have this done as an adult, before marrying)

None of my children will be circd. (unless they choose to as adults)

Its now legislated in Indonesia, with a medical procedure and an official 'amount' of cutting to occur http://jambi.tribunnews.com/2011/04/17/tak-paham-bisa-kebablasan

Soal ini, tentu saja membuat tenaga medis seperti dr Nadiyah menjadi lebih nyaman dan percaya diri menjalankan profesi mereka. "for this procedure it is vital to visit a medical professional, who believes in this practice' (not 100% but Im tired haha)

[Shortiii]

The hospital I had my son in had a policy of no circ... They had a little page in their booklet I was given to follow my pregnancy about 'our uncircumcised boy'. It was informative and interesting. I was considering having DS circumcised but did the reading and researched and found it wasn't for us. The info they provided helped too, and was nice to know their policy.

As the pp said, it can be quite common practice in some Malay/Asian cultures. I believe your acquaintance was unaware.

I think it might be a little overstepping the line to get a doctor to speak to her. For myself would feel you are interfering too much, especially when you aren't a close friend. I would let her take the information she has learnt and if she feels she needs more I am sure she will ask herself. It's really not your place to enforce a lecture, no matter how informative, from a doctor, even if your heart is in the right place.

[Annabella]

I think it would be overstepping the line too, from what you've said, she sounded completely unaware of what circumcision is for a female (like PP said, in her country it's not what we think of as genital mutilation) and it doesn't sound like she'll be doing it now anyway.

Obviously I don't agree with fgm, however it is a very sensitive subject to a lot of women who have been through it themselves and plan to get their daughters done. Without respecting people's views, you cannot change their mind, no-one likes to be told they are a horrible person for doing what they think is normal and right for their kids (which OP, it sounds like you have been respectful :) )

[Bodelly]

i don't have the legal act in front of me - but i've been told that its illegal to perform any kind of circumcision on females (including a 'ritual cut' in lieu of a full circumcision) - its also illegal to take your child out of the country and have them circumcised overseas.

[technically since its illegal to pierce the female genitalia in anyway, i'm still not entirely sure whether this makes genital piercings technically illegal :confused::p ]

i hope for this woman that you didn't have any mandatory reporters on your facebook page.

I highly doubt piercing is illegal as long as your 18 ;)

[kalgirl]

I'm unsure what the legalities are in other states, but every school in WA is issued with a file (generally it's given to the Principal and kept in their office) outlining what FGM is and what it looks like and what ethnic groups traditionally practice it. If a school/teacher suspects that a student has undergone the procedure it comes under the mandatory reporting rules of physical/sexual abuse and the school must report it to the authorities.

[Sian]

Someone would circumcise their daughter, here, in Australia, without religion or cultural reasons AND there are doctors out there that would actually do it????
I think I'm about to faint.

My mind is blown. It's good to see the "it's cleaner" line of thinking works for parents of girls, too! :freakingout:


Sent from my Nokia 5110 using Bub Hub

[Bubbles10]

I'm unsure what the legalities are in other states, but every school in WA is issued with a file (generally it's given to the Principal and kept in their office) outlining what FGM is and what it looks like and what ethnic groups traditionally practice it. If a school/teacher suspects that a student has undergone the procedure it comes under the mandatory reporting rules of physical/sexual abuse and the school must report it to the authorities.

How often are teachers looking at their students genitals?

[Luna Lovegood]

Glad you explained it to her OP. :highfive:

It just goes to show though, that many parents who do circ do intend to do the best by their child, but are seriously misinformed about such procedures. If only more hospitals provided information, and included the current Australian recommendations to parents-in-waiting.

[kalgirl]

You might be surprised. In the junior grades we teachers often have to help younger students with soiled undies after accidents. We get called into the toilets by children because of burning wees or diarrohea. Helping with buttons and overall braces. Littlies come out flashing for all different reasons (last year a naked kindy boy came out of the toilet clutching a mammoth poo he wanted to share with us all, that was an epic occasion) Particularly before and after swimming lessons helping youngsters get tight swimming costumes on and off and then redressed. There are all sorts of instances where your child's teacher might see their genitals.

[kalgirl]

And in an education support context, teachers are changing nappies and menstrual pads of both young and older students right up until they leave highschool.

[kalgirl]

How often are teachers looking at their students genitals?
and something that I had almost completely forgotten: the Year 7 bush camp where we went swimming in the dam and one of the boys called me in because a leech had affixed itself to his testicle! With another teacher looking on (because yes, my hands were all over his groin) I burnt the leech off with an extinguished match. Not fun, but necessary when you're in the middle of nowhere and the kid is getting increasingly hysterical.

In a lot of situations, actually viewing the genitals is not necessary for a teacher to form a suspicicion that a child has been tampered with in someway. Secretions/blood on the outside of knickers is easily seen when sitting on the mat or playing on the monkey bars. Unusual odour and refusal/reluctance to use the toilet, sit down or engage in an activity that might hurt the child further are also indicators that might raise suspicions.