CSA Arghh.

[MissBrightside]

Bio mum has decided that SD is no longer coming over here. She is almost 16. So she has rung CSA told them she has 100% care so we have to pay more. They changed it without discussing it with DH. We got a stat dec and changed it back as she did stay over on weekends. Then bio mum changed it back again, so we did another stat dec and changed it back. Apparently this can go on forever.
What I don't get though is why can they just change it because she says so and also she hasn't done a tax return so it's not even an accurate assessment.
We have SS here full time and SD here on weekends. We pay them money and get nothing back. They own their own business but obviously write it all off in tax on their business so it look s like bio mum earns less than what she actually does.
She admitted to DH that she changed it because of something DH didn't agree to pay extra for.

Why do CSA give dads that do the right thing a hard time, but the one's like my ex can get away with sitting on the dole and paying $26 a month for two kids. My DH is pretty much supporting 5 kids and this greedy woman just wants more.

[MissBrightside]

Thanks for all the support!

[supa_star323]

Sorry, I didn't see this sooner.

That seems absolutely ridiculous. When I tried to change the care percentage for DS I had to wait while they contacted the ex and got his side of the story and we both had to agree.

[Me]

I'm no single parent but i sit here astonished that she can just do that(and without a stat dec whereas to change it back you need one?). Can your dh ask Csa to look into the case the next time she applies for it to be changed and make it a bit harder for her to attempt to do the wrong thing? I'm so sorry you're going through this

[share a book]

Yep I hate when they run a business! That's for either parent because it works both ways with a business. I hope it improves for you soon!

[pegasus]

Is your husband's case one where he pays CSA, or her direct. I ask this as when DSD turned 18 this year, she had been earning a full time wage for over a year (she earns way over the cut off for being seen as self sufficient (and has done since she was 16), but to get the assessment changed was an absolute nightmare. Hubby went to change the assessment about 3 months before her birthday and all hell broke loose - with biomum telling DSD all sorts of things about us and abuse which no one deserved.

We pay the biomum direct but CSA dictates how much.

What took place after was amazing. They agreed that CS shouldn't be paid for DSD (she earns more than me a year), but to cease CS for her, because biomum wouldn't agree to it, CSA said the only way hubby could change it would be to cease payment of CS so that she requested payments be collected by CSA. Which is what hubby wanted to do so that we don't have any ties to biomum regarding money, and she has no recourse. She refused, and we still pay her direct, but if she abuses us ever again, then payments will cease so she has to request csa collect.

Hubby wanted to pay CSA and have them pay her, but she has to request it as she set up the original case, she doesn't want to as she doesn't want to receive money monthly. Crazy.

It amazes me how for the parent who requests the case originally, can alter whatever they want, when they want, but if the payer wants to alter anything the rigrimole is huge.

[MissBrightside]

Thanks for replying.
Sorry if the last post was blunt. I'm just peeved because we just got a new assessment and the payments have just gone up another $220 a month. I know its not as much as some families pay but $500 a month means we struggle now.
She is such a b!atch. Apparently earns even less now she owns a business with her husband. He probably gets a good wage out of the business. They are now buying a new ute for their company and she hands cash to SD to buy a new ipod because her last one broke. Has a tummy tuck done which cost like $25000. Yeah you really need all this extra cash. Always has brand name clothes gets her nails done etc. Yeah would be nice to be able to do those things but I make sure my kids come first and they are happy.
How can they say this system is fair!!!
I don't know what to do, I make sure my kids don't miss out but this makes it really hard and makes me really mad!

[threechooks]

I feel your frustration! I have circumstances a bit like you. Bio mum works cash in hand for her boyfriends business but does not declare an income to CSA. We can rant about it all we want but there is no way of proving it. We only know what SD tells us. We pay $900 a month for one child. We we started the process for shared care 10 years ago, but racked up several grand in solictors fees, she fought it every step of the way, ofcourse bio mum got legal aide. Every letter we sent to her solicitor got rebuffed and cost us so much more, we got an estimate amount to take the matter to court. We could not afford it. On paper DH earned good money but was working 3 jobs to pay off debt outstanding from the relationship (over 80,000). I work in the field and am aware that you may as well wipe your **** with a contact order. If one party doesn't comply you must pay the big bucks to a solicitor to pursue the breach of the order.

DH has been screwed royaly.

DH rang CSA the other day to find out whether he has overpaid or underpaid for the financial year. They would not tell him until he does his tax return (he cannot possibly estimate his income). In the meantime if we have overpaid, he doesn't get it back but if he has underpaid they take the money straight from his tax return.

The system is a joke. Hugs to you :hugs:

[pegasus]

Threechooks - know totally about that one.

My hubby took a lower paying job about 6 years ago - to move closer to the kids. He lodged this etc etc...biomum knew and agreed to this. Yet she had to agree to receiving a lesser amount of csa before they'd change it.

Meanwhile he could have just quit his job, declared it and not paid anything and there would have been nothing she could have done. Instead - she was overpaid about $2000 in the time before the next assessment was given.

As you say - if he'd stopped - no money was ever paid back. We now know that he was given false information relating to the fact that they told him he would be in breach if he just paid the new amount.

DH now knows that since it's still a private agreement (and will remain so until biomum requests CSA collect - which we now know she won't) he wouldn't have been in breach of anything.

So becareful of what CSA tells you - it seems sometimes it is very important what type of agreement you have.

[MissBrightside]

The system stinks for second families.
They need to take into account the household income not just the parents because majority of the time the dad has the better earning job and gets screwed and the mum's can hide what they get in their husbands name. The deadbeat dad's like my ex who pay jack all get away with it. Bio mum has been married for 14 years, yes my DH has some responsibility to his daughter, but why is it at the expense of everyone else in our house? I'm better off financially leaving my DH.
How can we complain to the government that this system sucks?

[pegasus]

I too have said I'd be better off financially leaving my husband - and have had others tell me this isn't the case. Um - you wouldn't know - you have not seen my tax return....

That's why I say the system isn't right. Not because money shouldn't be paid to people, but it has all sorts of ironic issues with it.

[MissBrightside]

I agree. When you can clearly see that one family is better off even before child support is paid, how do the second family ever get anywhere without making twice the amount of sacrifice.
Why does the bio mum deserve more than my family? She doesn't, she is just greedy.

Her husband chose to live there and take on her kids as did my DH with me. But my DH has to support his two kids one that lives with us and has not allowed to sleep at their house for 6 months now. My two kids as their dad pays f all, one with special needs, so we have to pay for extra things for him and our baby we have together. I love my DH and don't want to leave him but I don't know how much more stress I can take from this woman.

They have 3 kids which includes SD who stays over when her mum lets her.

I don't hate many people but she sure isn't on my xmas list! and I hate this situation. It hurts my head!

[threechooks]

Missbrightside,

How many more years must your DH pay child support? Try and look towards the future it wont always be as hard as it is now.

Years ago I decided not to think about the CSA payments (as hard as it is) I would worry myself into an early grave and start to resent my DH.

Instead I focus on what we will do with our with our $10,800 per year once we stop paying. ohh the possibilities !:smiliedance:

Ever since SD was 9 years old (the half way mark) i have been counting down the years, only 4 to go!

Second families get a massive raw deal, but to be fair I chose DH kid and all. I love him so much and wouldn't trade him for the world.

Any of my friends who start dating a man with kids I give them a massive warning and remind them of the possible 180,000 coming out of their household income over 18 years... It is so very hard.

Kids deserve to be supported by their fathers but there are bio mums that cheat the system and have multiple children by multiple fathers, collecting several lots of child support and work cash in hand like my SD's bio mum.

The system sucks!

[Beachside Mumma]

I might be completely wrong here and i'm sure someone will be able to correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought that if the business is a partnership then what the business earns is taken into account too? To stop people from buying new cars, boats etc under the business and then taking a reduced amount as drawings/a wage, so it then looks like their taxable income is much less than it really should be. I also thought that if you suspected this to be the case, you could ask Child Support to investigate and they go through all the business's books etc. I know one year when our business was still a partnership, DP purchased a new car and after the accountant had written everything off, his taxable income was less than $15,000. Obviously he earnt more than that, hell the mortage repayments for the year were more than that, but that is what CSA based their assessment off ((DP and his Ex had a private child support agreement so she obviously got a lot more than the minimum amount)). The year before that, we had sold another business and DP's taxable income was really high, even though we didn't actually take that much money as a wage because it was all put into the 2nd business, but CSA still based their assessment off what his taxable income was. But I thought that been able to write everything off and having a small taxable income (like the $15,000) was the reason they changed things and can now look into what assets a business (if it's a partnership) has and much money it's making etc.
If the business is a company, then they get paid a wage each and no questions asked though.

Like I said, I might be completely off track but it might be worth a try?

[Izy]

i hate the system too but from the other side.

Xh has ds 2 nights a fortnight over the weekend, returning him early afternoon. Pays nothing but the expenses for those two days, and yet according to csa he's paying 24% of the day-to-day costs. How the f can that make any sense at all?

[Beachside Mumma]

:confused: 2 nights a fortnight is not even close to 24% of the year... Makes you wonder how the hell they work things out...

ETA - I just looked on their website, and did the estimate care calculator thingy for 2 nights a fortnight and it estimated 14%.... wonder where they get the extra 10% from?


i hate the system too but from the other side.

Xh has ds 2 nights a fortnight over the weekend, returning him early afternoon. Pays nothing but the expenses for those two days, and yet according to csa he's paying 24% of the day-to-day costs. How the f can that make any sense at all?

[MissBrightside]

threechooks- two years to go. I do try and think about that, but we are going to fight this it's not fair and she doesn't deserve it nor does she need it. She is just doing this out of spite and has admitted it to DH.
Yes i do agree that DH has some responsibilty for his kids, but why should it be at the expense of the 4 kids that live here?
BeachsideMumma we are looking into that but it's so confusing.
I get $26 a month for two kids one with special needs which comes with extra expenses. Their dad hasn't seen them for 4 years. I'm not going to get anything more so I don't rely on money from him.
So I do understand both sides.
The whole thing needs an overhaul. I was thinking about writing to my local member, I know it probably won't do much but I'm just lost as to what we do.
I know we aren't the only one's in this boat so thankyou to all who understand the frustration and strain this put's on second families.
I do love my DH more than anything, more than money. I won't let this get between us, I know one day there will be an end to it all, just can't wait for that day. Oh and i'd like to be around when the karma train catches up!

[Izy]

:confused: 2 nights a fortnight is not even close to 24% of the year... Makes you wonder how the hell they work things out...

ETA - I just looked on their website, and did the estimate care calculator thingy for 2 nights a fortnight and it estimated 14%.... wonder where they get the extra 10% from?

Yep- calculator recognises it as 14% care percentage but 24% cost percentage. Makes no sense to me, especially since his portion of the CSA income for DS is almost double mine due to income levels

[zombiekitty]

Has anyone ever been in the situation where they paying CS for a child that is working fulltime?
Did you manage to get your payments stopped? How?

[pegasus]

Izy - I have no words - it just doesn't make sense (okay - so I have words :p) You know my thoughts on that.

threechooks - I love your outlook.

zombi<3kitty - we did cease csa payments for DSD when she was working fulltime - but it was a bit of a process (not because of CSA, but because of her mother).

Basically - you need either bank account details showing wages, or payslips, and the child has to be earning more than the amount that youth allowance would pay them.

I think there's more, but my mind it's escaping me tonight. I did have a thread about it at the time- if I find it - I'll link it tonight. We delayed doing it knowing that it would cause a lot of hassle with biomum.

[2darlingboys]

Did you mean in earlier post SS lives with you full time & your paying CS for him?

[zombiekitty]

Thanks Pegasus. We are really wanting to cease CS (done through them) as the child is working full time. CS has said there is no automatic cut off amount and that we have to prove the amount earned. Um, how do we do that when we don't even see the kid???
Apparently, we have to go through change of assesment and we don't want to do that. It's so wrong!!!!

[HELPihavea2yrold!]

Missbrightside,

Kids deserve to be supported by their fathers but there are bio mums that cheat the system and have multiple children by multiple fathers, collecting several lots of child support and work cash in hand like my SD's bio mum.

The system sucks!

There are plenty of deadbeat dads who dont do the right thing either. My ex made threats against me this week saying that if I didnt agree to the private agreement that he had come up with, he would take DS off me, one way or another. His private agreement was to put money into an account everyweek that he opened and only he had access to. DS would apparently receive this money when he hit 18. Until then, DS can live on sunshine and smiles. I am looking for a job currently but DS is not coping with being at childcare even 1 day a week because of the damage FOB has done to him psychologically.

[AppelsAndOranjes]

I've had mixed experiences with them but often times they stuff up and don't enter things correctly. They had actually put that I have one of my kids 50% and the other at 0%. While EXH had each one at 50%. This made it so I had to pay him because I had less time with them!

Not sure where they thought that my eldest was for the other 50% of the time!

[MissBrightside]

BRB sounds like your ex is trying to control you still. He can't just take your boy. I've heard it all from my ex, now he has dissappeared for the last 4 years. Empty threats. I can fully understand your anxiety about the situation though.

We were told we can do the change of assesssment, but why should we have to show them all our financial's? How's that supposed to help? CSA should investigate financial details but they expect us to supply stuff there's no way we can get our hands on.

[mrsd72]

Bio mum has decided that SD is no longer coming over here. She is almost 16. So she has rung CSA told them she has 100% care so we have to pay more. They changed it without discussing it with DH. We got a stat dec and changed it back as she did stay over on weekends. Then bio mum changed it back again, so we did another stat dec and changed it back. Apparently this can go on forever.
What I don't get though is why can they just change it because she says so and also she hasn't done a tax return so it's not even an accurate assessment.
We have SS here full time and SD here on weekends. We pay them money and get nothing back. They own their own business but obviously write it all off in tax on their business so it look s like bio mum earns less than what she actually does.
She admitted to DH that she changed it because of something DH didn't agree to pay extra for.

Why do CSA give dads that do the right thing a hard time, but the one's like my ex can get away with sitting on the dole and paying $26 a month for two kids. My DH is pretty much supporting 5 kids and this greedy woman just wants more.
while I feel for you, this happens to the manin custodial parent too
My XH told the CSA he had our now 14 yo son every 2nd weekend which is total crap and they changed it without discussion with me at all - he didn't even lodge a stat dec.
So please don't think the CSA give dads a hard time when the system is flawed in so many ways all round

[pegasus]

brb- he doesnt have any grounds to do that. If i was you i'd go straight to csa- if he doesnt agree to pay then they can lodge an employer request. Its like how my husband couldn't change his from private to csa collect unless his ex requested it

[pegasus]

zombie - we had a fair idea how much she earned as we knew how many shifts and her hourly rate.

Even though its written on the website i know the youth allowance is a guide only. Its up to their discretion -same as what is a dependent (see other threads by me). If a change in cs wpould disadvantage the custodial parent they are reluctant to change it. Biomum argued against it on grounds she needed to pay school fees. Um dsd isnt at school - thats why we're doing this and she would still get $574 f/n for 16yo dss.
I wondered about the tax return?

[threechooks]

There are plenty of deadbeat dads who dont do the right thing either. My ex made threats against me this week saying that if I didnt agree to the private agreement that he had come up with, he would take DS off me, one way or another. His private agreement was to put money into an account everyweek that he opened and only he had access to. DS would apparently receive this money when he hit 18. Until then, DS can live on sunshine and smiles. I am looking for a job currently but DS is not coping with being at childcare even 1 day a week because of the damage FOB has done to him psychologically.

Yes there are a***holes on both sides of the fence. My DH is not one of them.

[HELPihavea2yrold!]

Brb- get csa to garnish his wages???

They are currently garnishing his wage. I phoned up CSA after the threats were made to have it noted on my account that I did not want a private agreement. He has in the past phoned up CSA and said that I have agreed to pay for things that I havent. FOBs income more the doubled around Sept 2010. He did not declare his new income to CS so he is trying to intimidate me in order to lock me into the current agreement before the new tax year. I already have made an agreement with FOB that when DS turns 5, I will stop collecting CS so he is able to move on with his life. By then, I should have finished my study and have a good paying job


BRB sounds like your ex is trying to control you still. He can't just take your boy. I've heard it all from my ex, now he has dissappeared for the last 4 years. Empty threats. I can fully understand your anxiety about the situation though.

We were told we can do the change of assesssment, but why should we have to show them all our financial's? How's that supposed to help? CSA should investigate financial details but they expect us to supply stuff there's no way we can get our hands on.

FOB turned up on my doorstep this morning without warning. He lives over 1400kms away so not like its around the corner. I am away atm but my neighbour contacted me and took video of him banging on my door and windows.
I'm trying to keep the visitation at supervised until DS is older because of FOBs temper and history. He should not have come to my town as all visits are done in ACT with several male family members in attendance. I do worry about FOB getting unsupervised access. FOB showed his temper last visit when DS was crying. I wish FOB would disappear!

[Amara]

There is an investigation process of some kind if you believe they are earning more than what is being divulged. It was offered to me earlier this week. No point doing it in my case as he's not hiding money, he's just too busy getting engaged & buying an engagement ring for his new woman while he hasn't paid CS for his kids for months. I now get the huge sum of $30 a week for my child despite the fact I haven't worked in 6 months (not my choice) and he earnt 65k last year. If I live to 100 years old I will never understand how CSA works. It is so unfair to so many.

[JulesSmith]

Hi all,

I read your posts regarding the Child Support Agency and felt for everyone who has posted on this forum. I am having the most incredible battle with CSA at the moment and in absolute despair have started a blog regarding them to try and evoke change. I want people at CSA to hear all of our pleas and change the system that causes us parents so much heartache.

Please feel free to join my blog and comment on it and hopefully if we all band together we can set about changing this antiquated system.

www.ihatecsa.wordpress.com (http://www.ihatecsa.wordpress.com)