View Full Version : myths and misconceptions of caesarian article
serendipity22
22-09-2006, 00:05
Who has read the Bub Hub myths and conceptions of caesarian article?
How did it come across?
It came across to me as honest. Gave lots of facts and figures and the realities of it all. I also like the birth plan suggestions. Very interesting read.
If anyone hasn't seen it the link is in the menu to the left of your screen.:)
alicesmum
22-09-2006, 09:54
How did it come across?
I liked it but would feel pretty scared if I was booked in for one after having read it. It was quite anti-ceaser for no medical reasons (have had 2 drug-free VBs myself), which I still am if there is no medical reason, but I thought this article might have presented views from women who had positive experiences of them too, just to be a bit less one-sided....:confused:
I did like how in the article it suggested making a c-section birth plan. Alot of women as stated earlier in the article the women has no control over what is being done to her, so by doing up a birth plan it may help some women's c-section experiences less traumatic.
I just wish I had thought of doing a c-section birth plan the first time:(
CrazyBeautiful
22-09-2006, 14:34
It came across to me as honest. Gave lots of facts and figures and the realities of it all.
Agreed.:thumbsup:
hmmmmmmmmm
didnīt read it, BUT i did have a birth plan for my 3rd c/s...well, finally :)
and my 3rd was fantastic- for being a c/s ;) - so- it is worth while doing it!!! (i had skin to skin- bubbie left with me ALL the time- breastfeeding IN theatre...ect.ect.. left hospi 48 hour later...because i had to wait 48 hours, because bubby had jaundice....GRR- but better them to check, than me being sorry :) )
HUGS
I thought it was very much against having a cesarean.....yet again !!! It seems that if you chose to have one for no other reason than you want one you are doing something wrong. I and a number of people i know have all chosen to have cesareans for our own personal reason and none of us have had any problems either with bonding with our babies, getting about afterwards, or recovering from one and certainly I dont think any of us felt like we were done out of anything!!
c/sections are not for everyone but for those who chose to have one we did it because WE didnt want a vag birth
grubindi
22-09-2006, 20:00
well i have had 4 never had any dramas with any of them and was driving with them by day5 and would definately have another few.
MamaSage
22-09-2006, 20:17
I thought it was a great article. To throw a spanner in the works, I do not think cesareans should be glorified, they have a purpose - to save lives. Of babies, of mothers. It is a shame that we are so caught up in our liberated world of choice that it becomes an issue like this, for life saving surgery to become the standard for instances that may not require it.
Another way to look at it too - every time an elective cesarean is performed, it is another birth that is not natural. Soon medical practitioners will be performing surgery more than assisting women to have babies the normal way, and for women who WANT a natural birth, or a VBAC, it will be harder as it more and more becomes the abnormal thing to do. We should be turning the rising rate of cesareans around, not pushing them up.
And FWIW, the author of the article has actually had 2 emergency cesareans and a homebirth. She knows both sides of the coin too well.
*ducks and runs*
SilverStarfish
22-09-2006, 20:40
I liked the part about making a birth plan that involves the possibility of a c-section, but honestly, to me, the overall feel of the article was pretty negative towards caesarean births.
SassyMummy
22-09-2006, 23:09
I thought it pretty honest.
I don't think it was particularly anti-caesarean...because caesareans AREN'T necssary. That doesn't mean it's wrong for someone to have one for a non-medical reason, but it certainly isn't NECESSARY.
serendipity22
22-09-2006, 23:25
The article mentioned a survey
that less than 1 percent of women requested an elective caesarean for no medical reason.
This surprised me a bit, as media seems to say its much more than that.
Soon medical practitioners will be performing surgery more than assisting women to have babies the normal way, and for women who WANT a natural birth, or a VBAC, it will be harder as it more and more becomes the abnormal thing to do. We should be turning the rising rate of cesareans around, not pushing them up.
This is my concern too. It seems odd to me that the rate has gone from about 3-30% in a few decades.
Everyone has the right to choose their own birth (you are equally a good person if whatever type of birth you gave), though it would be shame if people who want a natural birth don't get full support for that. It seems like the system is intent on creating c-sections.
The main thing is that you have a beautiful baby at the end of it.
I felt the article was a little negative about C/S but no surprises there.
I'm all for C/S whether it be for medical reasons or simply because! It's a couples choice and at the end of the day all that matters is a healthy mum & bub. Bringing a child into the world is one of lifes most beautiful things and any women who has/will experience that should be proud and exalted, regardless of how she did/does it.
At the end of the day it's the same result isn't it?
reAllytee
22-09-2006, 23:32
I actually now feel ill at the thought of needing a c/s for my next baby .... Not really what i needed when im petrified about having another vb.
Can someone tell me how to organise the stork to deliver the next bub please ???? :(
Can someone tell me how to organise the stork to deliver the next bub please ???? :(
Just go raiding the cabbage patch instead;)
SilverStarfish
23-09-2006, 08:33
That doesn't mean it's wrong for someone to have one for a non-medical reason, but it certainly isn't NECESSARY.
And that's another grey area. There is no distinct black line between what is medically neccessary and what isn't.
There are many women on bubhub who are not happy about their birthing experiences. Months, even years, later some are still traumatised by it and no amount of "oh get over it, at least you had a healthy baby" is going to help.
Would you consider psychological factors "medical" reasons for c-sections? What about a mother who has a deep seated pschological fear of vaginal birth? No amount of "oh get over it, you'll be fine" is going to convince her otherwise either.
Are medical reasons only physical ones? I think they include mental ones as well. What does everyone else think?
MamaSage
23-09-2006, 18:57
I can understand that for some women, their vaginal birth was a traumatic experience for whatever reason, just as my surgery non birth was extremely traumatic for me. I guess there may be some merit in saying that is sufficient enough reason for those women to be granted 'elective' surgery births, BUT is the emotional health of the woman more important that the physical safety of the mother and the unborn child? To a certain degree I also feel that if all women considering a pure elective surgery birth were informed of the unnecessary risks they are putting themselves and their baby in they probably would not choose the surgery. More food for thought.
SilverStarfish
23-09-2006, 19:01
is the emotional health of the woman more important that the physical safety of the mother and the unborn child?
I think in some cases it could be. I don't think any of us would doubt the fact that a traumatic birth (be it a un/wanted vaginal/c-section) can be very closely related to PND.
reAllytee
23-09-2006, 19:35
Please also understand that the physical safety of my son after my birth was definately at risk because i hated him for what he did to me.
Even now 18mths on i still struggle with this & am working through it yes but for me to have him do that to me was like reliving my childhood abuse all over again.
I also struggle with myself because i feel a total failure so in some ways yes of course i understand the c/s risks etc but the idea of another vb makes me feel so petrified that i dont know if i could cope after it all again.
Does that make sense :o
stellarella
23-09-2006, 20:07
I dont think the article was anti-ceasarian at all. It was simply stating the facts. A ceasarian is not the BEST way to deliver a baby and it has a far greater risk of complications than a vaginal birth. These are the facts. babies were not designed to be cut out of their mothers bodies, thats what a vagina is for.
It is a wonderful life saving operation which should be used as such. If a ceasarian becomes the only option....after trying all other options, then it has served its purpose and can be celebrated!!!
I have a major problem with women wanting to be mothers but deciding to pick and choose which aspects of becoming a mother they want. for example, not wanting a vaginal birth and not wanting to breastfeed for "personal reasons." Of course there are valid reasons why you would not do either of these and i think each mother knows if her reason is really valid, she does not need to be told by others. im just concerned that "personal reasons" is a blanket excuse for picking and choosing which parts of motherhood one wishes to endure.
I am also concerned that having a ceasarian becomes the norm because then all the mothers who wish to have VB will have to fight tooth and nail to do what is natural and normal. It is already becoming that way. mothers choosing to go to a birth centre or birth at home because they have less chance of being coerced into a ceasarian.
In a society where technology is taking over nature i applause this article for attempting to balance the scales!! :smiliedance:
I think any reason is a valid one, be it medical/physical or mental.
Hopefully all mums make informed decisions re all things pregnancy, whether they have a VB or a CS, and understand all the risks and benefits involved.
It's funny when a CS are mentioned the negatives and risks are quick to come to out, imagine if that happened when a VB was mentioned? Lord help us.
stellarella
23-09-2006, 20:29
I think any reason is a valid one, be it medical/physical or mental.
Hopefully all mums make informed decisions re all things pregnancy, whether they have a VB or a CS, and understand all the risks and benefits involved.
It's funny when a CS are mentioned the negatives and risks are quick to come to out, imagine if that happened when a VB was mentioned? Lord help us.
I think the only reason we are so quick to point out the risks of a ceasarian is that a VB is the natural way to give birth. after millions of years of perfecting womens bodies, mother nature came up with the final design. and its perfect. :smiliedance:
i for one trust mother nature over technology which has only been developed over a few hundred years.
we all know there are risks with VB but these are UNDENIABLY increased due to the way we give birth nowadays. ie, with lots of drugs, interventions, monitoring etc.
To a certain degree I also feel that if all women considering a pure elective surgery birth were informed of the unnecessary risks they are putting themselves and their baby in they probably would not choose the surgery. More food for thought.
Not the case with me. I was aware of all the risks, I was also aware of all the risks with a VB. I still opted for an elective c section. So i don't think this is the case for all women, and to suggest that all women who have elective c sections do not know all the facts is a little presumtious.
Not the case with me. I was aware of all the risks, I was also aware of all the risks with a VB. I still opted for an elective c section. So i don't think this is the case for all women, and to suggest that all women who have elective c sections do not know all the facts is a little presumtious.
Agreed. I am well aware of the risks involved and will be having an elective c/s.
xx
Please can we take this back on track. It is NOT supposed to be a CS vs VB debate - it is about the article in the hub newsletter. Any further off topic posts will be removed.
Cheers
yes, i read the article, well most of it, it's just the same old stuff. All the negatives about c sections.
What i don't like is women feeling pressured into having c sections by their OBs. If this was me and i didnt want a c section, wouldn't you just get a second opinion or something rather than going through with it when you were unsure???
I also think that the statistic of 1% of women have c sections without medical reason' is untrue. I'm betting it's a lot higher than that, but women are afraid to say 'yes i just wanted one because i did' for fear of being judged and made to feel like an unworthy mother because she didn't push her baby out!
I read partway through and went :ecomcity: Yet another obviously overly negative "scare" type article on caesareans..........really? I'm over it! :banghead: All this so called "information" in the guise of trying to turn women against having caesareans and heaping the guilt on BIG time.....all supposedly to "help" women know the truth as the awful, evil doctors are doing all these terrible things to us - we silly, naive and stupid women :barf:
If you want to have a VB - have one - if you want a c/s - have one........it should be no ones business but the woman, her doctor and partners.
What skin off anyone elses nose is it how anyone else gives birth? As long as we are given the information we seek and make up our own mind.......informed choice......who cares?
I've had 2 wonderful, elective caesareans (within 12 months of each other too!) and have 2 healthy, happy babies, that I love to bits and have "bonded" with just fine. both babies came out with lusty cries and weighed in at normal wts, perfect apgars and not requiring any medical assistance whatsoever. Both took to the breast immediately. Absolutely no problems whatsoever with any of us.
to those women out there who feel afraid of having a c/s OR guilty that they had one etc...........don't let this sort of rubbish get you down. You created a human life from 2 cells and nutured it to a fully fledged human being in your belly.......you will now raise that child to an adult with all that this entails......in the bigger scheme of life - the birth is such a tiny part on the continum. Congratulate yourself for bringing a baby into the world - whatever way you do it :kiss:
T
I read partway through and went :ecomcity: Yet another obviously overly negative "scare" type article on caesareans..........really? I'm over it! All this so called "information" in the guise of trying to turn women against having caesareans and heaping the guilt on BIG time.....all supposedly to "help" women know the truth as the awful, evil doctors are doing all these terrible things to us - we silly, naive and stupid women
If you want to have a VB - have one - if you want a c/s - have one........it should be no ones business but the woman, her doctor and partners.
What skin off anyone elses nose is it how anyone else gives birth? As long as we are given the information we seek and make up our own mind.......informed choice......who cares?
I've had 2 wonderful, elective caesareans (within 12 months of each other too!) and have 2 healthy, happy babies, that I love to bits and have "bonded" with just fine. both babies came out with lusty cries and weighed in at normal wts, perfect apgars and not requiring any medical assistance whatsoever. Both took to the breast immediately. Absolutely no problems whatsoever with any of us.
to those women out there who feel afraid of having a c/s OR guilty that they had one etc...........don't let this sort of rubbish get you down. You created a human life from 2 cells and nutured it to a fully fledged human being in your belly.......you will now raise that child to an adult with all that this entails......in the bigger scheme of life - the birth is such a tiny part on the continum. Congratulate yourself for bringing a baby into the world - whatever way you do it :kiss:
T
Well said...
I had a VB and a C/S and by far the easier way to birth is VB. But i have a huge issue with the fear campaign about ceaseareans. The fact that when in labour with my second and not progressing I was told to consider a C/S i asked to keep pushing for another hour. In this hour my DS's heart rate started to drop, and still i didn't want to have a c/s. When my DH and the Dr said that there wasn't any other option i burst into tears and started shaking I was so terrified of what was about to happen...
It was so scary i fell asleep :laughing:
I had read so many bad reports on ceaseareans that i was willing to perservere with a labour that was going nowhere.
My Dh was amazed that i waited so long as my close friend was left in labour too long and her baby DIED. If they had of given her a c/s earlier would she have a healthy 5yr old? Did she have PND because of her ceasearean? No, she had full blown depression and still suffers to this day. Funnily enough I ended up with PND after my VB, and five months on from my c/s am doing very well thanks.
And while in hospital recovering everyone asked "so you must be disappointed that you needed a c-section????" Why? because i had a perfectly healthy baby boy lying next to me? I don't feel any less a woman for not being able to push him out. And no woman who has a c/s should - she's definately done it the hard way!
If a woman chooses to birth through her left nostril, then all the best to her - as long as she feels comfortable doing it that way. :D
SilverStarfish
23-09-2006, 23:56
If a woman chooses to birth through her left nostril, then all the best to her - as long as she feels comfortable doing it that way. :D
:laughing: :yelclap: :laughing:
Pippi Longstocking
24-09-2006, 07:32
I thought it was a great article - factual, easy to read and not biased either way.
Of course it is going to sound a little negative - they are discussing major surgery for crying out loud! Of course there are risks and I would be very disappointed if they were left out of the article just because people didn't want to feel negatively. It would be deceitful to not include the risks. If it was an article on say...heart surgery, do you think they would leave out the possible risks to avoid making the patient feel bad? I don't think so! Women have a right to be fully informed and I think that that is what the article was trying to do. It is not helpful to make such an important decision with eyes shut and hands over ears while chanting "lalala, I can't hear you!".
stellarella
24-09-2006, 08:28
I dont think the article was anti-ceasarian at all. It was simply stating the facts. A ceasarian is not the BEST way to deliver a baby and it has a far greater risk of complications than a vaginal birth. These are the facts. babies were not designed to be cut out of their mothers bodies, thats what a vagina is for.
It is a wonderful life saving operation which should be used as such. If a ceasarian becomes the only option....after trying all other options, then it has served its purpose and can be celebrated!!!
I have a major problem with women wanting to be mothers but deciding to pick and choose which aspects of becoming a mother they want. for example, not wanting a vaginal birth and not wanting to breastfeed for "personal reasons." Of course there are valid reasons why you would not do either of these and i think each mother knows if her reason is really valid, she does not need to be told by others. im just concerned that "personal reasons" is a blanket excuse for picking and choosing which parts of motherhood one wishes to endure.
I am also concerned that having a ceasarian becomes the norm because then all the mothers who wish to have VB will have to fight tooth and nail to do what is natural and normal. It is already becoming that way. mothers choosing to go to a birth centre or birth at home because they have less chance of being coerced into a ceasarian.
In a society where technology is taking over nature i applause this article for attempting to balance the scales!! :smiliedance:
xxx
There are many women on bubhub who are not happy about their birthing experiences. Months, even years, later some are still traumatised by it and no amount of "oh get over it, at least you had a healthy baby" is going to help.
Would you consider psychological factors "medical" reasons for c-sections? What about a mother who has a deep seated pschological fear of vaginal birth? No amount of "oh get over it, you'll be fine" is going to convince her otherwise either.
Are medical reasons only physical ones? I think they include mental ones as well. What does everyone else think?
You are right Faeml - there are lots of women traumatised by their birth experiences, for all sorts of reasons. I have heard a figure of 1 in 3. And VERY LITTLE SUPPORT or counselling exists for these mums. Which is frightening really. It certainly doesn't have to be that way.
But is the answer for these women to resort to surgery? Why aren't we looking at what caused these births to be traumatic in the first place? How much intervention was there? Was the woman's control and decision making taken away? Did they feel abandoned? Unsupported? Was the trauma physical? etc etc etc.
I would argue that we would be better served helping these mums to deal with the pain and trauma they have suffered, and to face the fears that they may have about their next birth experience. Learning to trust your body and learning about the amazing way the body works during birth (and how detrimental medical interference with these natural processes can be), and ensuring you have rock-solid support and that your care is focussed on YOU, can go such a long way to making your next experience, not only better than the last, but a fantastic one.
I truly believe that.
Resorting to surgery is a little like sweeping the problem under the carpet.
I thought it was a great article - factual, easy to read and not biased either way.
Of course it is going to sound a little negative - they are discussing major surgery for crying out loud! Of course there are risks and I would be very disappointed if they were left out of the article just because people didn't want to feel negatively. It would be deceitful to not include the risks. If it was an article on say...heart surgery, do you think they would leave out the possible risks to avoid making the patient feel bad? I don't think so! Women have a right to be fully informed and I think that that is what the article was trying to do. It is not helpful to make such an important decision with eyes shut and hands over ears while chanting "lalala, I can't hear you!".
True women should know the risks associated with major abdominal surgery, as you would with heart surgery. Can we even it up with the risks of a VB?
My view is obviously skewed due to what happened to my friend. There was nothing wrong with her baby, he was a healthy 9lb 8oz boy, only that he became distressed and her c/section came too late. Can we all please accept that there is a place for cesareans - without them what would the rate of stillbirth be? The rate of the mother dying? Does anyone remember the old days? Along with the risks, maybe we could aknowledge that in some instances they are lifesaving for both mother and baby? That there is - shock horror - positives to c/sections?
My friend will probably never have kids now, because her fear that it would happen again, but if she does she would elect to have a cesarean - would that be wrong?
My VB was a text book delivery, and for those who get one, good for you.
At the end of the day isn't it that your baby is here and healthy?
BTW i was not an "unnecessary" elective cesarean. :rolleyes:
Just closing this thread for a bit while I clean it up.
Ok, thread open again for posting.
Please keep it on topic and polite or the thread will be closed permantently.
So does anyone else have an opinion to offer about this article?
Pippi Longstocking
27-09-2006, 10:13
True women should know the risks associated with major abdominal surgery, as you would with heart surgery. Can we even it up with the risks of a VB?
Yep, absolutely. But it was an article on Caeserian sections, which was why the article was covering the risks in relation to caeserian birth rather than the risks of vaginal birth. Which incidentally are far less than the risks of major abdominal surgery.
Yes, of course there is a place for caeserian. I don't think anyone would deny that. I just feel that they need to be used as just that - a lifesaving procedure rather than simply another birth choice.
spiritedfamily
27-09-2006, 11:15
It is important to be aware of the risks of caesarean because they are slowly becoming "the choice" and in WA the c-section rate is high. I think facing the 'fear' of birth is the key...when we fear things..we are closed and tight...its very hard for baby's to born out of fear and so women progress towards a complicated painful birth and at times resulting in c-section. Caesarean should always be kept in its place...emergency procedure, necessary to save a women and her baby's life. I do beleive that no matter how much trauma a women has experienced in her first, second or third birth, healing has to take place at some stage in order to move forward...but to elect for a c-section cuts yourself short, it doesn't allow the healing to occur...and yes it is the individual's choice but like others have said, be honest, it is what it is...major surgery and its not a natural way to birth.
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