Live Export : Four Corners

[Ana Gram]

Forgive me if this is in the wrong place.

If anyone watched Four Corners last night and was shocked about the treatment of cattle, please sign this petition:

http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/animals/live-export/ban-live-export

For anyone who didn't see it and wants to know what all the fuss is about, you can view it here:

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110530/cattle/

Be warned, this is very graphic and very upsetting.

[Pippy the Hippo]

I was just listening to this on the radio.. I'm sad I missed it but not sure if I can watch it after what they said they saw... When I jump on the computer I will sign it first thing.

Heart breaking. :no:

Thanks Ana for putting this up. X


Beep beep sending from my iPhone

[Ana Gram]

Thanks :)

I only got through about 5 minutes and was sobbing and had to turn it off, so I completely understand. Apparently even people in the industry ie abattoir workers, had a hard time watching it, so that says something.

My ex (DD's father) watched it and it has pushed him to want to commit to being vegie now :goodvibes:

[breebee]

Thanks for posting this Ana Gram, I hope lots of bubhubbers sign the petition! I watched only a few minutes before I was shaking and crying, it was truly horrifying. God bless those poor animals.

Sent from my Desire HD using Bubhub

[Elijahs Mum]

Just signed it and emailed to everyone I know! Makes me happy I don't eat meat, makes me sad that this has gone on for so long , no meat eater would wish that treatment on any animal

[bugsy]

Thanks Ana Gram (great user name),

Didn't watch the footage, I couldn't stand to, but I have signed the petition.

I raise beef cattle, and on behalf of my beautiful beasts I had to sign. There is no excuse for such inhumane slaughtering. (And no none of my boys are ever sold into the live export trade).

[TinyLittleTootsies]

We learnt all about this in Primary school... not shown graphic videos, but the some pictures and the facts. I was so upset. We lived in a port that had all the cattle being driven there and then shipped overseas live so that other countries could kill them there. I feel sick every time I see them. I remember once driving next to one truck and this cow with its big eyelashes was staring right into my eyes. :crying: I felt so sad knowing what it was in for and that this cramped truck was only the start of it. We did petitions at the time etc but I am not sure if it counts when you are under 18...? It might have been just a thing for the teacher to do.

[Ana Gram]

Thanks Ana Gram (great user name),

Didn't watch the footage, I couldn't stand to, but I have signed the petition.

I raise beef cattle, and on behalf of my beautiful beasts I had to sign. There is no excuse for such inhumane slaughtering. (And no none of my boys are ever sold into the live export trade).

Thanks bugsy :)

I think it is absolutely vital to have support from the actual farmers in this.

[zombiekitty]

I was horrified but sadly, not surprised.
Live export needs to stop! Livecorp needs to grow a conscience.

[adz]

I just sat through it. Bloody hard to watch. The most uncomfortable part for me was near the end where the cattle could see the other cattle being slaughtered and cut up. The last one in the line, that had just watched 3 or 4 being killed, was trembling.

Horrifying.

Signed.

[Phyllis Stein]

Indefensible and unforgiveable. :no: I have signed the petition as I hope anyone with a conscience would.

[Phyllis Stein]

I just sat through it. Bloody hard to watch. The most uncomfortable part for me was near the end where the cattle could see the other cattle being slaughtered and cut up. The last one in the line, that had just watched 3 or 4 being killed, was trembling.


I have to admit I didn't watch any footage, only read enough to get the idea. :( I'm so appalled by this - it is absolutely abhorrent and senseless. I just can't fathom how *any* human being could do such a thing, and if we ignore it now that we do know what's happening, then we're equally culpable.

PLEASE everyone who reads this thread - sign the petition. The government need to know that this is viewed as utterly unacceptable by the vast majority of Australians.

[august]

Cruel Cruel B@stards.
Being a human makes me sick to my stomach and ashamed to be a human.

I am a vego anyway. I have shared the link on my facebook page to get more signatures.

[Ana Gram]

In breaking news (I've always wanted to say that :laughing:), the minister for Agriculture has suspended the export of live cattle to 'a number of killing facilities in Indonesia'.

http://www.theage.com.au/environment/animals/live-cattle-exports-to-some-abattoirs-suspended-20110531-1fdsn.html

[TinyLittleTootsies]

Pitty that it is only "some". Some probably meaning the ones in the least influential areas generating the least amount of money for Australia.

[BigRedV]

At work right now, but will sign later.

[Elijahs Mum]

What a great start! Keep sending off the petitions !

[Ana Gram]

Pitty that it is only "some". Some probably meaning the ones in the least influential areas generating the least amount of money for Australia.

Basically the ones shown in the footage. Since it aired less than 24 hours ago, this could be counted as great success. Obviously not the absolute best outcome so far but a great result from public pressure so quickly.

[Phyllis Stein]

I've just written to my federal MP about signing the bill to phase out live exports, and I'll be writing to my state's senators tonight.

If anyone would like to write to their MP but is unsure how to go about it, this site (http://www1.humanechain.org.au/take-action)makes it simple - you just fill in your postcode and they provide you with a template letter that you can change as little or as much as you like. The more people who actually email/ write to their MPs, the better!

[Californication]

Live export is totally unnecessary and cruel. Glad that something is finally being done about it.

[Phyllis Stein]

Basically the ones shown in the footage. Since it aired less than 24 hours ago, this could be counted as great success. Obviously not the absolute best outcome so far but a great result from public pressure so quickly.

Unfortunately, I think they're just going into damage control. In immediately responding in such a way, they'll be able to claim that this footage was simply an "exception" and live exports can continue as is, just not to "those" facilities.

I hope public pressure doesn't abate, as live exports is *intrinsically* horrifying and distressing - I truly doubt this footage is an aberration. :(

[WorkingClassMum]

I am nearly speechless. I'll sign the petition tonight :( :( :(

[Ana Gram]

Unfortunately, I think they're just going into damage control. In immediately responding in such a way, they'll be able to claim that this footage was simply an "exception" and live exports can continue as is, just not to "those" facilities.

I hope public pressure doesn't abate, as live exports is *intrinsically* horrifying and distressing - I truly doubt this footage is an aberration. :(

Completely agree with you. Especially considering Australian inspectors did a check on the same places just a month before Animals Australia did and gave it the tick.

[Phyllis Stein]

I didn't know that, Chelle but I can't say I'm surprised. :no:

[TinyLittleTootsies]

Australia also provided the inadequate equipment which makes it worse for the cattle. They gave the slippery ramps as an example. This causes the slaughter workers to beat the cattle as they slip over and over again (not just because of the water in other scenes).

[BEAUTIFULBUTTERFLY]

OMG that's horrid! I did not watch the video simply reading others posts was enough. As it is I get tears in my eyes going past those 'trucks' on the freeway. Especially if I make eye contact with I. This has to stop I signed the petition and have emailed everyone.

[MamaC]

I can't watch the footage :no:
But I have signed the petition (and forwarded it on to my family and friends) and I will be sending the letter today.

I've been hearing them talk about it on the radio and it just upsets me so so much :gloomy: I used to be a vegetarian, for many years and this inspires me to go back.

[Phyllis Stein]

Good on you, MamaC. Hopefully more people do consider going vego, or at the very least, consider sourcing their meat and dairy from more ethical producers. There are heaps of online guides to ethical consuming for those interested.

[EmyB]

Interesting watching thanks PS.

I don't understand why they (Livecorp) can't just give the Indonesian abbatoirs stun guns? They seem to have relatively the same setup apart from this.... and surely it would make the whole process easier for the "slaughtermen" too....

[zombiekitty]

Unfortunately, I think they're just going into damage control. In immediately responding in such a way, they'll be able to claim that this footage was simply an "exception" and live exports can continue as is, just not to "those" facilities.

I hope public pressure doesn't abate, as live exports is *intrinsically* horrifying and distressing - I truly doubt this footage is an aberration. :(

You are right. It happens all the time Livecorp ends up in the spotlight for live export.
Damage control, public pressure abates and live export continues as normal.
Disgusting and not acceptable :no:
It doesn't help that some of Livecorp's investors are polticians :(
We need to stop all live export to slaughter houses that practise Dhabiha (method of killing animals so that the meat is Halal). It's inhumane, even if done correctly.
Unfortunately, religion and culture are often used as excuses for cruelty of all kinds.

[sunnymummy]

I watched most of the program last night but had to turn away at several points becuase it was so horrible.

I have signed the petition and sent an email to Julia Gillard and Joe Ludwig (Agriculture Minster).

I have also dug out my vego recipe books.

[Ana Gram]

I managed to sit through a small snippet from Animals Australia entitled "Tommy". It shows this poor beautiful boy shaking with fear watching other cows be slaughtered. Anyone who thinks they are not capable of emotion is crazy.

This footage can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/user/animalsaustralia#p/u/4/czy2ffzTA3E

It is distressing :(

[adz]

I managed to sit through a small snippet from Animals Australia entitled "Tommy". It shows this poor beautiful boy shaking with fear watching other cows be slaughtered. Anyone who thinks they are not capable of emotion is crazy.

This footage can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/user/animalsaustralia#p/u/4/czy2ffzTA3E

It is distressing :(

That is the bit from last night I was referring to. Utterly disturbing and completely unnecessary.

[Ana Gram]

That is the bit from last night I was referring to. Utterly disturbing and completely unnecessary.

yes, I re-read your post after I posted and thought that this footage might have been it. And the thing is, that section of probably the least violent of the lot. It was quiet and no apparent physical torture occurred. But you could see the fear in his eyes :crying:

[twotrunks]

I was horrified by the footage last night too.
But.
According to the reports I ahvr been reading the live cattle export industry employs around 13000 people. And 80% of the Cattle go to Indonesia. So if we ban exports to Indonesia tomorrow what happens? The petition calls for the govt to ban Indonesia now, and the rest of live exports within three years. I just wonder if it is a big ask to basically make 10000 people unemployed overnight. Surely there must be another way? Don't get me wrong, I do agree that live exports should be banned when cattle will be killed inhumanely. but I just worry about the flow on effects... Has anyone got ideas of how we can save the cattle and the jobs?

[Elijahs Mum]

I'm a bit naive when it comes to meat exporting but why don't we kill it here and send it over pre cut and packaged? Surely there would be refrigeration ships for food transport? At least that way no one will lose jobs and farmers still sell cows?

[nirok]

I unfortunately did see most of the program last night as much as I didn't want to. And i've just watched a few clips I hadn't seen - completely not sure why I continued to watch.....

I have tears streaming down my face - I feel fortunate to live in a world where I can't even imagine knowing anyone capable of any kind of animal cruelty, let alone to the extent to which was conducted in those clips....... my heart was breaking for those poor beasts as those men kicked, beat and gouged them long after their spirit was broken. :(

[Phyllis Stein]

TT, live exporting animals is simply not compatible with animal welfare. There is no economically viable way to ship thousands of animals over the ocean while ensuring their welfare. Ethical live exports is an oxymoron.

If the industry is intrinsically ethically unconscionable, then the kindest thing to do to all involved is to phase it out completely. There are alternative avenues to sustain employment, such as in the further development of our chilled/ frozen meat export industry.

[Ana Gram]

One of the reasons Indonesia wants live cattle is because most people do not have refrigeration, so if they want to eat meat, they need it fresh.

I don't know what the solution is but I do know this is not right and it has to stop.

[DanceInTheRain]

I have tears streaming down my face - I feel fortunate to live in a world where I can't even imagine knowing anyone capable of any kind of animal cruelty, let alone to the extent to which was conducted in those clips....... my heart was breaking for those poor beasts as those men kicked, beat and gouged them long after their spirit was broken. :(

I think you'd be surprised who, in your world, IS actually capable of animal cruelty.

Unfortunately animal cruelty of all kinds is absolutely rife, absolutely everywhere, live exports is just one sad part to a bigger picture :(

[Ana Gram]

I think you'd be surprised who, in your world, IS actually capable of animal cruelty.

Unfortunately animal cruelty of all kinds is absolutely rife, absolutely everywhere, live exports is just one sad part to a bigger picture :(

Quite right. The egg farm in Somerville is a good example of this. And that is legal :(

[RunningWithScissors]

I couldnt watch! Im going into the city on the weekend to hand out brocures and get signatures for a petition.

Ive been shielding my kids from it, DD would not cope! She is super sensitive to animal cruelty, she even did a report at school saying how all animals should be kept as pets so they are safe, have warm beds, food and not have to live in the rain.. Poor kid, her heart is in the right place!!!
I want to take her with us but I dont want her exposed to the harsh truth so young :(

[The Girls Only Club]

Signed. Thank you for the link.

[zombiekitty]

The unimaginable cruelty right here on our own soil is rife and mostly legal. Factory farming is one such example :(

[BigRedV]

Tried to watch, but couldn't :crying:

I have signed.

[Lemonhead]

I watched the first 20 mins and was disgusted. Even DP who believes animals are here only for our consumption said the way they were treated was awful and unnecessary.

[catrules]

I was distraught after watching the videos on monday. I have decided to become vegetarian. I've thought about it for awhile and this has pushed me over the edge. My husband is supporting me by agreeing to me cooking vego at home and we won't keep any meat in the house. He may eat meat products at lunch at work if he wants but won't do it in the house or out with me. We're switching our cats to a fish based dry food also.

[sunnymummy]

Bumping to spread the word

[MamaC]

I can't watch the footage :no:


So I decided that the mere fact that I couldnt watch something because I find it confronting, means that I HAVE to watch it to challenge my beliefs and motivate me to always do more, do better.
So I watched the footage when the Four Corners program had a repeat showing. It was so unbelievably distressing and now whenever I hear about this issue, all of those awful images resurface :( I have been in tears on and off all week and it's just so hard. Yesterday I was having a snooze and I dreamed of all of what I saw on the program, but in my dream I was there
:barf:
I will never get those images out of my mind and I feel absolutely sick when I hear politicians talking about "reforming" the industry. Why are they talking about changes? Why are they not talking about BANNING?! :(

[pegasus]

Firstly - I'd like to say that I am opposed to live exports - I drive up and down a highway daily which has trucks of cattle, sheep and pigs from farms going off either to abbattoirs or export. I always thought the reason live export existed was because of religious reasons and as a christian - i found that an oxymoron as my religion preaches humane treatment of animals.

I read what I thought was a good article today suggesting some points. I'll quote a few thought provoking points I pondered.

"Those who cried at the sight of the mistreatment should consider whether the right way to change is to remain involved and try to create change rather than to walk away."

If we just ban outright export to Indonesia - then they will still get the cattle - but from other countries - like Brazil (apparently there's enough cattle there). The inhumane treatment of animals would continue. The cost to get cattle from Brazil is much more.

The suggestion was to continue to export to Indonesia - but to put money into changing the abbattoirs in Indonesia - therefore costing the Indonesian people less than it would be to import from Brazil, but enabling change from the inhumane conditions.

[MamaC]

I read what I thought was a good article today suggesting some points. I'll quote a few thought provoking points I pondered.

"Those who cried at the sight of the mistreatment should consider whether the right way to change is to remain involved and try to creat change rather than to walk away."

If we just ban outright export to Indonesia - then they will still get the cattle - but from other countries - like Brazil (apparently there's enough cattle there). The inhumane treatment of animals would continue. The cost to get cattle from Brazil is much more.

The suggestion was to continue to export to Indonesia - but to put money into changing the abbattoirs in Indonesia - therefore costing the Indonesian people less than it would be to import from Brazil, but enabling change from the inhumane conditions.

I too have thought of the bolded bit (first paragraph) endlessly since the Four Corners program. Of course that altruistic part of me wants all live trade to end, but there is also that realistic part of me that understands that if we don't do it, someone else will. The thing that really gets me is that Meat and Livestock Australia was already meant to have a handle on this, was already meant to be reporting on the humane treatment of livestock overseas, was already meant to be educating slaughtermen on the humane way to kill these animals, but even an organisation as big and as well funded as this, has failed!

What is the solution? I wish the answer to this question was that a worlwide ban on live export would be implemented, but it's just not going to happen. So does Australia now bow out and let another country take over? OR can Australia now take the initiative and implement a system whereby animals are killed humanely on our shores and then the meat products shipped in refridgerated containers?

I don't know the answer. All I know is that the cruelty cannot continue.

[Ana Gram]

Yes, it is something the industry SHOULD have done long before this came to a head. But they didn't. They knew what was going on and they didn't give a toss. The only reason they are making any kind of response now, is that they have been caught out.

[pegasus]

There was a really interesting other article (different to the one I quoted) in the paper today which was about Lynn White - she used to work for the people who investigated the abbattoirs before getting out realising that nothing was being done.

I truly applaud her for getting the pictures out there, as I for one, had very little information regarding treatment of animals Australia exports.

See - I'm now interested in the idea of why live exports continue. We have abbattoirs here which slaughter animals in a "halal" manner (not sure what that actually is - but if there's any people who require food to be prepared in a halal manner - hopefully they'll enlighten me - otherwise I might go wiki tonight LOL). I'd always wondered why we couldn't slaughter the animals here in the correct manner then export to the countries which require the meat to be prepared in that manner.

I think it was Ana who said it was because they don't have appropriate refrigeration. I'm puzzled by this - wouldn't meat which was frozen correctly be the same (if not better) than meat killed inhumanely?

[Ana Gram]

Yes, the majority of people over in Indonesia do not have refrigeration in their homes, so meat they by tends to be bought on a daily basis to be used in that evenings meal. The markets also do not have refrigeration, so it is unlike us going to the butcher or the supermarket.

It is an idea to ship it refrigerated, but we then encounter a problem once it arrives. It would ALL need to be sold very quickly.

From our perspective, yes it would be better to slaughter here and send it refrigerated but this would drive up the price of meat for Indonesians (because we would charge more for the extra service and refrigeration) and the issue of no refrigeration would still be a problem once it got there.

[MyFourCubs]

I have it on tape... have not been able to bring yself to watch it but signed the petition the next day thanks to a facebook link.

I don't know if you guys remember there was a similar story years back on the live export of sheep and goats to Saudi Arabia on 60 minutes- I only got through half of it before I walked out in tears. (It was shown at an Animal Liberation meeting.)

My concern is that similarly the govt ceased or "froze" all live exports to the country following the airing of the program but after a while it was forgotton by the public and when it was out of the public spotlight the govt simply started it back up again.:rolleyes: I imagine that is what will happen here.

I don't know what the answer is. As an animal rights activist and a vegan I do not condone or support live exports and I do not believe that our government should partake in such cruelty and by supplying Indonesia live animals, knowingly of their fate they ARE partaking in the cruelty whether they see it that way or not. I DO acknowlege that if we stop live exports another country will take up where we left off and the cruelty will continue :( I don't know what the answer is..

Breaks my heart.:no: