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missie_mack
29-05-2011, 13:51
Jack, my third child, arrived last month, 20 days late. My first two babies were 15 days late. But a day shy of week 43? That is virtually record-breaking – and, some would say, slightly mad. For the last week I barely left the house. I knew what I was doing and was happy with my decision. But I didn't want to hear what anyone else had to say about it. (Especially if it was: "Have you tried eating curry?" Yes. About 57 times.)
In the US there are women like me who call themselves the Ten Month Mamas. The Mamas used to have an online resource – sadly now defunct – which featured the stories of dozens of women who had gone past 42 weeks, some of them as far as 48 weeks. (Many of the most extreme examples were Mormon – some with more than half a dozen children.)
Historically, tales of weirdly overdue babies are not unprecedented. The actor Jackie Chan claims his mother carried him for 12 months before he was born by caesarean section, weighing 12lb. There is also a story of a woman in a prisoner of war camp who allegedly waited until the camp was liberated to give birth – at 12 months' gestation.
But maybe these claims are not so odd when you remember that the average pregnancy is actually nearer 10 months than nine. So if you give birth at 43 weeks, you are heading towards 11 months anyway.
I held out as long as I could, but in the end Jack was induced. I wish it could have been otherwise. The day before he was born, the hospital consultant had made it clear that she didn't agree with me remaining pregnant for a day longer. Despite the fact that there were no signs that there was anything wrong, there was a risk of stillbirth, she said. "How does that apply to this pregnancy in particular?" I asked, as all my tests were clear. "You're very overdue," came the answer. I could have waited another day or two maybe. But I wasn't happy acting against the hospital's wishes.
The induced labour was not a terrible experience – Jack was born with no complications in 50 minutes – but it was not ideal. I had wanted him to come out when he wanted to. Not when a doctor ordered him to. It turned out that he was large, but not abnormally so (8lb 12oz; his sister was larger at 9lb). And he had no signs of being post-dates: no wrinkly skin, and the amniotic fluid was clear. I wasn't sure he was really that late at all.
So why is 40 weeks seen as the norm when only 5% of babies arrive on their due date – and when it is 41 weeks in France? Could we be inducing babies who don't need to be induced – exposing both them and their mothers to unnecessary risk?
The US midwifery guru Ina May Gaskin thinks so. She believes that every baby will come in its own time, and she is currently campaigning for 43 weeks – rather than 42 – as the definition of "late". The dates in themselves, says Gaskin, do not indicate the need for induction. There are clear signs if there is something wrong and the baby needs to come out: reduced foetal movement, for example, a deceleration in growth, or reduced amniotic fluid – all of which could be picked up by the mother or a midwife.
In recent years the ultrasound dating scan at 12 weeks has been seen as the best measure of due date in the UK. Statistics suggest it is marginally more accurate than the traditional LMP (last monthly period) date. The latter method, known as Naegele's rule, dates back to 1838. It is based on the idea that human gestation lasts 10 lunar cycles (nine months plus seven days) and assumes that every woman has a monthly cycle of 28 days where she ovulates on the 14th day.
The trouble is that very few women fit the "average" – hence the huge variation in the dates when babies are born. Seventy per cent arrive after their due date. And yet it has become a fixed point by which we measure everything in pregnancy. Meanwhile, induction rates in England are rising – albeit very gradually – up from 18.3% of babies in 1990 to 20.2% last year.
Hannah Latham, 36, a writer from Bristol, was 18 days overdue when she gave birth to Noah, now six weeks old. "I do wish they could give you a 'due window' of three weeks instead of a due date," she says. "It becomes very stressful. You have all these people hassling you, saying, 'Isn't he here yet?' Because, of course, you tell everybody your due date. Which in future I wouldn't do." Latham consented to an induction in the end because an ultrasound scan showed that the amniotic fluid was starting to run low.
"Until then there was no good reason to induce. But they pressure you from when you are a week overdue. They say to you, 'Are you aware that you are putting your baby at risk?' I said, according to what statistics? They said, 'We don't know.'"
This is the problem with overdue babies: there is very little evidence because so few women allow their pregnancies to go past 42 weeks. As US midwife Gail Hart points out, the most-cited statistic about post-dates babies (that their risk of stillbirth "doubles after 42 weeks") comes from a 1958 study – a time when mortality rates were 10 times what they are now. Also, as Hart argues, induction is hardly risk-free: it carries higher rates of caesarean section, uterine rupture, foetal distress and maternal haemorrhage.
These risks were what put me off induction. Home birth was also a factor, as it is for many: if you agree to induction, it has to happen in hospital. This usually means you end up being monitored, wired up to a machine to measure the baby's heart rate, and you will have to deliver flat on your back. Having given birth twice, I know that I cope best if I am free to rampage around the room. Because my midwife knew me very well (by coincidence she had delivered my second baby at home), she helped me to stand and move around, while still being monitored. I was lucky – this is not standard practice.
Fear of intervention is the main reason women resist induction. The British website www.homebirth.org.uk (http://www.homebirth.org.uk/) features women who have given birth past 41 weeks, the latest at 43 weeks plus six days, and many of the mothers talk of being "reluctant to interfere with nature".
Joanne King's second baby was born at 43 weeks plus three days. She writes: "I explained [to the consultant] that I thought the risk of being induced versus carrying on with the pregnancy – when the baby and I were well – was not one worth taking. She agreed with me."
But for other pregnant women the desire to see their baby safe and sound is too much to bear. They would rather just get induced. "Most women are very impatient," says Mervi Jokinen of the Royal College of Midwives. "And it is a mental strain: you are getting bigger, you are not sleeping well, you want to see your baby. Most women are not negative about induction by the second week [overdue] and some ask to be induced well before that."
The latest baby Jokinen delivered was 44 weeks gestation. "As a midwife you know if a baby is truly post-mature by the state of the skin. It's drier and flakier. They look like someone who has been in the water too long." But according to one American study [cited by Gail Hart in Midwifery Today], more than 90% of supposedly "late" babies born at 43 weeks in fact show no signs of post-maturity.

Gaskin argues that in the US there is a new medical complication, "iatrogenic" ("doctor-caused") prematurity – "inductions where babies turn out to be premature and then spend a week or more in the neonatal intensive care unit". She says in four decades of experience and thousands of pregnancies, she has seen only one woman who needed to be induced. "We've had experience with many Amish families in which 43-week pregnancies seem to be the norm."
To most hospitals, Gaskin adds, a lack of symptoms – and the patient's history – is irrelevant: "This habit of making absolute rules that are applied to cases that used to be open to individual treatment has contributed to the dumbing down of maternity care."
This is true in the UK too. I couldn't understand why my doctor was not interested in all the heart monitoring (every two days after 42 weeks) – and all perfect – or in the ultrasound scan. Nor was there any interest in my birth history (two late babies and fast births, which I thought made me a poor candidate for induction). All that mattered were the statistics – from 1958.
So would Jack eventually have come out himself safely? I'll never know. As Jokinen puts it: "This is the thing. Some babies come out 'late' and they are perfectly OK. And you wonder what was wrong with the dates."



Link (http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/01/pregnant-for-10-months)

An article I found with interest after being overdue with my last pregnancy (and having a very healthy baby!) and again with this pregnancy. Makes me wonder if the worry we all go through when we go overdue is unneccessary and out of date. What do you think?

J,K&L'sMum
29-05-2011, 14:04
It is interesting. I wonder how long these woman's cycles were before they were pregnant?
My ds came right on his due date, while dd came 2 days after hers.
My cycle is/was (am preg) a regular 28 days.
Neither were induced.

lulululu
29-05-2011, 14:10
Totally agree. I was homebirthing and went to 42+1. I know if I was hospital-birthing I would not have been "allowed" to go "so long". Peoples reactions were amazing. They were shocked and horrified when I was 40+1! if I wasn't so pregnant and hormonal I might have thought it was funny. As it was I just found it extremely irritating.
By the way my bub was a healthy 3.755 kg

lulululu
29-05-2011, 14:12
Interesting silver spoon. My cycles were long and variable. Like my pregnancy.
My partner and I had a baby each. I was pregnant for one month longer than her.

2darlingboys
29-05-2011, 14:28
DS came on his due date so I can't really comment.
He was over 9 pounds
This baby I know when I conceived him.
So we will see!

~CupCakes~
29-05-2011, 14:37
my three were all born on there 'due date' and my period was regular 28 day cycle..... im preg again and im interested to see when this bub is born as my cycle was all over the place while ttc.. i'll be happy with overdue as i think in almost everycase babies are born when they are meant to

2darlingboys
29-05-2011, 14:38
Yay cupcake you give me hope!
I want another due date baby! As the EDD is special

bitterpure
29-05-2011, 14:41
Very interesting article.

DS was induced at 41+3. He weighed 9'12 and his skin was perfect. Induction wasn't a bad experience for me but I will always wonder when he would've come on his own. I know the exact date he was conceived. My cycles have always been long too (38 days or so).

PuppyGuts
29-05-2011, 15:19
I want to stay as far away from induction as poss with our next baby, and dont care if im over, but i would like to know how to check if its still safe....

Chunkydunks
29-05-2011, 15:36
What an interesting read. Thanks for that.

missie_mack
30-05-2011, 09:42
Makes you wonder why different countries have different practices, doesn't it? What made someone decide 'Ok in Australia we will start induction at 40weeks +10 days' where as in a country like France they don't even start counting until 41 weeks??

waterlily
30-05-2011, 09:51
My DD was born at 38 weeks and due to sever complications I have to have a c-section next pregnancy so I can't comment, but ideally I'd try to wait till bub was ready to come on their own.
I do think a babu should stay out until labour starts or baby is in distress and HAS to come out. But I don't think saying "oh your a week overdue let's induce" is good enough! Unless their are complications it shouldn't be an option.

babybumblebee
30-05-2011, 10:11
I'm 40+5 today and will be induced on thurday at 40+8 because they (being the hospital) wont do an induction on the weekend when I will be 40+10 so +8 it is because they also won't allow me to go past 10 days ... in my case it is simply because the medical staff have to cover themselves and if I were to be left and something were to go wrong they'd be worried about being sued. :rolleyes:

Being a first timer it's scary, I feel great, my bub is healthy and my only main concern is that she is gettiing bigger as that may lead to C-section (I'd prefer to be induced over C-sect)

I wish in my heart that I had the strength to leave my little bubba until she is ready to make her own entry into the world but I would never ever forgive myself if anything went wrong and so It's a catch 22 for me. because everything in the article and other information I have read makes perfect sense but there is that seed of doubt it's so hard to make the "right" decision, you think of doctors and you trust that they know what's best but at the end of the day they are only human too.

So fingers crossed my little bubba arrives on wednesday and everyone will be happy :highfive:

Izy
30-05-2011, 10:25
It's frustrating that every pregnancy is tared with the same brush so to speak.

Some women will have compliations from going 'to term' and others haven't finnished cooking till much later. Why are our bodies supposed to ALL be the same. The majority doesn't mean the total!

SassyMummy
30-05-2011, 10:55
My experience was similar to what was mentioned in the article.

The only pregnancy "problem," I had was high blood pressure - but it was 160/80 at worst. It was high, but not life-threatening. I saw my GP weekly, had to pee in a cup pretty much all the time and was sent to hospital a few times to be monitored in case my high blood pressure was causing any issues (it wasn't).

I went past my EDD, and that was it. That's all that mattered. Obviously, my blood pressure was still looked at, and the even did some other tests of me... but despite all of them coming back suggesting that both my baby and myself were more than fine, and there were no problems, I was booked in to be induced.

I didn't care. I was 19 and I didn't worry about risks. The author of the article is right - people p*ss you off when you go past your EDD (actually, it usually starts a few weeks beforehand because everyone is ready for you to go early) and keep harassing you about whether or not you've had the baby/are in labour/etc... and it frustrates you because you've learnt to believe that 40 weeks is your magic number... and then mentioning it is just rubbing it in that it's not happening yet. It's almost like you're a disappointment to your friends and family too - they sound so disappointed when you tell them, "No, nothing yet." It's like you're letting everyone else down.

So I agreed, eagerly, to an induction. Might as well get rid of that heavy belly and see the baby... have everyone come and see it (I didn't know I was having a girl), and tell you how great you are at making cute babies. Sounds better than being uncomfortable and needing to pee 100x an hour and having people ring you up asking you if you're in labour and making you angry you're not.

Well, induced I was, at 10 days over. Nothing. Told next morning that a faulty batch of gel was the issue - it was incorrectly stored and thus wouldn't work.

They do it again. Nothing.

Do it again. Nothing.

Told I need a caesarean. I am 41+6 and will be having a caesarean first thing the next morning. Why? Well, because of dates. No other reason really.

During my stay in hospital, being induced over a few days, I realise I shouldn't have gone in. All this failed induction business (fwiw, I was induced once with a faulty gel insert thing - looks like a flat tampon really, induced again with the same thing but from a working batch, and then induced by having gel squirted up in there with a syringe) has done nothing more than make me lay bored in hospital (surely the lack of movemenet would have contributed to the lack of labour - all I did was lay in bed for a few days) and take me closer to having a caesarean (which I absolutely did not want).

When TOLD I'm having a caesarean (it was delivered to me in a "Sorry, this is our only option," way, as if the choice is caesarean or tragedy - nothing in between), I get told all the reasons why I need to. All of this is based on possibilities though - and doesn't take the fact that NO tests have shown issues with me or the baby (other than the BP, which again, wasn't doing anything harmful) into consideration.

When she's born, via caesarean without labour, she has NO problems as a result of being post-dates. The only issues she has is that she cannot breathe - a result of her being all clogged up, a matter which is likely the result of her delivery... a vaginal birth would have meant compression of the lungs which would have more likely resulted in her clearing her airways prior to birth.

That's it. She was not dry and flaky. Her waters were fine.

I was simply post-dates.

I'm almost 6 years beyond that date now though, and have had plenty of time to figure out where the problems lay - and so any baby that comes from my body in future will be left to exit whenever it damn well pleases. Those who call me to harass me about having a baby post-dates will be told to eff off and leave me alone. I will find myself a midwife who is supportive of my decision to go post-dates and I will be more than happy to have daily (or thereabouts) testing and monitoring to make sure that everything is well and good.

There will be no induction (no good for someone having a VBAC anyway), there will be no "OMG POST DATES! MUST HAVE CAESAREAN!" hysteria. I will not listen to "your baby will die," if the only evidence of this is me being past my EDD. I will look at MY body and MY baby and MY situation - not just go by what I'm told is normal, even though it usually isn't for majority of women.

bugsy
30-05-2011, 13:20
With DD 1 I went to 42+2, before naturally going into labour.
Other some recently meconium-stained water, there was no issue with going post-dates.

I did however have to argue for my right not to be induced earlier, and luckily had a supportive ob. I had agreed to be induced that morning, but it was, fortunately, unnecessary.

At my booking in appt. for my current pregnancy at a different hospital, the Ob commented that "Oh we will never allow you to go that far over here"
Grrrr- no other hospitals out this way, so it looks like I may be up for a bit of a battle this time.