Poor morphology - what's our options?

[Cherished]

DP's SA has come back and we have been told that his morphology is below the lower reference range, and that we may need to consider getting some help to conceive. We are waiting on some more tests results before we make any decision on what to do next, but I would like to have an idea on what we could be in for.

What were your options with low morphology? Did you fall pregnant naturally or did you need help?
If you needed help what was needed?

Any information would be greatly appreciated, we just want to know what we could be in for
Thankyou

[Cherished]

((BUMP))

Surely we can't be the only ones TTC with low morphology sperm?

[MummaFug]

:wave: Cherished ...

We had the same problem 5 years ago. We were told that it would be a 'miracle' if we got pregnant naturally as DH morphology was similar (if i can remember correctly it was < 2 also)

Now i dont want to get your hopes up but i went and bought a MaybeBaby Ovulation kit that day .. Spat EVERY morning and DH started taking vitamins, stopped drinking and within 3 months we were preggers...sadly, we lost that bub.

After that - we took a break from TTC - went out, got very drunk, checked into a hotel and....the rest is history :)
as you can see from my sig..we havent really had any problems..

GOOD LUCK

[KatiesMum]

Normal morphology is only 5% ..... so while its low, its not the worlds worst results by any means.

And remember - that a normal sperm sample contains in excess of 20 or 30 MILLION sperm - so 2% still equals 400,000 possible babies. It only takes 1 sperm!!!!

Realistically - take vitamens, take menevit, get hubby to eat a healthy diet and moderate excercise. Drink only in moderation and give up smoking if he smokes. Use ovulation predictors to time when you are ovulating, and keep trying.

You will be surprised as to how much of a difference a basic healthy lifestyle can make to the quality of sperm ... and some basic timing you should be right.

Dont panic.

If for whatever reason this doesnt work out, then IUI (Intra uterine insemination) is a good option for you. Basically you time when you are due to ovulate, and as soon as you o ... hubby gives a sperm sample, which is sorted to only use the good sperm, and inseminated. If its not good - they may freeze a number of samples, so that they build up a large sample of good active sperm to use.....

[Cherished]

Thankyou MummaFug and KatiesMum,

MummaFug, I guess I was just concerned because his results haven't improved since the previous SA. We did the whole lifestyle change by eating healthy, taking menevit, quit smoking and very mimimal drinking and the results for morphology didn't get any better infact they were lower. I use an OPK every month, tried the SMEP and use preseed but we just haven't had any luck. I just don't know what else we can do to help improve it, but your story does prove that anything can happen, Thankyou for sharing

KatiesMum, when you put the numbers like that I can see that there is still a possibility as it does only take 1 but I am just frustrated that our efforts haven't made any improvement. We have done what the Drs have said by a change in lifestyle with no improvement which is why I was wondering what we could be in for next. Thankyou for shedding some light on what we could expect if we do end up needing help. I really appreciate it

[moomechanic]

Hi
We have the same issue, 3% morphology, get him on menevit, this has improved alot of aspects of dh SA.
Icsi is recommended over iui when it comes to morphology, also they will do a scan to check for blockages and any problems
Good luck

[KatiesMum]

also remember sperm production takes 90 odd days ... so you need to have made the changes for abotu 4 months before you see any kind of results.

How long have you been trying?

:hugs: It is so hard and oh-so-very frustrating and heartbreaking.

:babydust1: :babydust1: :babydust1: :babydust1:

[Cherished]

moomechanic - Thankyou for sharing your input, we were told our next option was to find a fertility clinic but they didn't say what we could be in for. I guess we just have to wait and see how the next lot of results go before we know exactly what we are dealing with. I just wanted an idea on what we could expect. DP has been on menevit for for 7 months now but unfortunately we haven't seen any improvement with morphology which seems to be the only issue.

Katiesmum - The second SA was done 3 1/2 months after the first and he had already been on menevit for 1 or 2 months before the first SA so if was going to help you would expect it to have shown up on the second test. We started TTC early last year and we did fall pregnant but we sadly had a m/c at 6 and half weeks. We decided to get some tests (BT and SA) done after the m/c just so we could get healthy for next time and just to check that we had no issues. It has been almost 10 months since the m/c and we are planning on trying naturally until the 12 month mark. By that stage our next lot of results will be ready and we can make a decision. It is just frustrating when you make a change for the better but don't get any results.

[moomechanic]

That's ok we also just had a DNA fragmentation test done though thankfully that came back ok, cost about $300 but it's good to rule it out before doing a lot of cycles.
I don't think menevit really improved his morphology but his count and that is even better (wasn't bad to start with) we have cut out coffee and alcohol and a lot of sugar, mostly he eats stuff we have made from scratch not all the processed stuff, wears boxers drinks green tea, find stuff full of antioxidants (like the cereals and stuff) goji berries are good too :)

[Paul64]

Hi there Cherished.

Here it is. Forget the next 6 months. Call the next 6 months 'prep time'. Tell hubby to give up grog. Give up smokes. Take it easy on the caffeine too. Get a whole lot of exercise. See the GP too. 6 months may not be long enough for a lifetime of neglect, but it's a start. Eat right...not just better, but eat right. And here is a huge factor. You must keep the stress levels under control. Must, must, must. Stress is a monumental factor. Stress kills animals and can help to keeps us childless. Jocks or baggy shorts. No. Rubbish. No difference. The places you can make in-roads is diet, health, stress, and positivity. Keep these within your control, and you will make in-roads.

If you need IVF, well go for it. My morphology was poor too. I was 46 when we began. I was very healthy, didn't smoke, drank bugger all and we both remained positive through out....mostly. Were we luckier that some? Maybe. But we still rolled the dice with the best odds we could muster.

You guys need to muster together the best odds for you both too. Start now. Really, start now preparing yourselves. Give it 6 months then go for it. Only then. After 6 months of genuine 'get yourselves into shape' time.
Good luck. I just know you can do it.

Paul
Sa.

[Cherished]

Thankyou Paul,

Everything you said really opened my eyes. We want to give ourselves the best chance we can and you have given us some very useful advise. We have made some major changes starting at the begining of this year and now we only need to make a few little extra changes. We will definately take some time to be the best we can be especially if IVF is the path we need to follow. Thankyou again, I really appreciate it :)

[Paul64]

You are so welcome Cherished.

Go into this 'conception' mine field fully prepared mentally and physically. Follow the advice of your specialist and take really good care of yourselves and just as importantly, each other. I know it’s hard to remain 'romantic' when sex becomes a timed event in sync with ovulation....but if that's what it takes...so be it. Just because its a little less spontaneous than it once was doesn't have to mean its lost its passion. This is when you both need to be a little creative if that helps. I'll leave that up to you guys. I'm sure you can both think of something fun and creative.

If down the track a bit and things still aren't working out, be kind to yourselves and perhaps plan a weekend away to help in rekindling the passion and recharge those batteries. It's very easy to get worn down and despondent when things aren't going to plan. Acknowledge your difficulties, talk about them together again and then revisit your initial plan and continue. Draw strength from each other and perhaps make use of the councillors that are available in all reproduction hospitals departments and clinics. They are there especially for us that have or are struggling to conceive.

Totally good vibes to you both. :babydust1:

Paul
SA

[mrmoosmum]

DH had subnormal morphology too. Our FS recommended an acupuncturist who suggested the lifestyle recommendations mentioned already, plus he had his own multivitamin and other herb blends to take. The FS also said to only DTD every second day (even though DH's numbers were normal). DH loved one of the acupuncturists blends so much he still takes it - gets a great nights sleep apparently. Anyhow, we fell with DS2 while on a holiday and DTD more than on our honeymoon - up to 3x per night. And now we have fallen again - we were open to the idea but definitely not 'trying'. Feel free to pm me if you want details of the acupuncturist - he is in Brisbane. Its worth having a read of his website if nothing else.

[lannie]

Hi!
Cherished, we're in a similar situation. Been ttc for what seems like AGES and thinking that there must've been something wrong with me. DH had a sperm analysis which has come back incredibly low - only 2million sperm count (should be at least 20) and morphology of 3. He has started visiting naturopath - turns out he has little to no zinc in his system, which is essential for sperm production. Also visiting chiropractor as I've read that can help as well. I'm visiting gyno / fs on Friday (first appointment!!) and looking forward to hearing what he suggests. DH visited a doctor to get his results and he said to head straight for ICSI. He went to another doctor who said we needed to wait at least 3-6 months before making any decisions like that and there's a few options that they could try in the meantime. DH is getting another test in november, so trying everything possible between now and then.

Cherished, I'd be really keen to follow how you guys are going with things and what advice you are given. I'll let you know what the gyno advises me on Friday.
Take care lovey ladies!
xx

[Cherished]

Hi Lannie :wave:

Goodluck with your next lot of testing :fingerscrossed: I hope you both see some improvement.

We have been told so many different things from different doctors it just got so confusing. We were told by one Dr that there is nothing to worry about and then by another Dr that IVF was our only option...... and then that month I fell pregnant naturally but sadly m/c. 2 months later again I fell pregnant but am now going through another m/c atm.

So even with DPs not so good results we have still managed to fall pregnant 3 times in under 12 months we just cant get them to stick.

We both went on a health kick at the begining of this year - no smoking and very limited alcohol and eating healthy options. We found that taking menevit and vitamin C helped DPs numbers massively but didnt improve morphology. We also were told that zinc is very important - Pumkin seeds are packed full of zinc so we have been eating lots of them too.

DP hasn't had any more testing done since, but just with those small changes we have managed to get pregnant twice this year and DPs morphology was the same as your DH

Is your DH on menevit or anything yet? Feel free to PM if you like. Goodluck :fingerscrossed:

xox

[lannie]

Hi again,
CHerished, I am so very sorry to hear of your m/c. You seem to still be very positive and deserve a medal for that - you're an inspiration really! Take care and I'm sure you'll have a nice, sticky one really soon.

DH was on menevit for a bit, but now the naturopath has him on a huge mix of all different things that are a little stronger, to give things an 'extra kick start'.
Our naturopath has taken us off caffeine, wheat, dairy. I do sneak in a couple of coffees or teas a week but for a previous coffee addict, that's not too bad!!!

Doctors can be so confusing sometimes. I think that sometimes they forget that they are dealing with real people, with real emotions, in a very sensitive situation. Not all are like that though!

Good on you for stopping smoking etc. I'm sure that this made a great difference and that things will start looking up for you soon.
Take care of yourself,
xx

[MARTTC]

Hey girls... Interested on how you are going? Similar problem here :-/

[Cherished]

Hey marttc, basically I am still ttc naturally- I really don't see the point in ivf if we can conceive naturally and we know we can it's just getting them to stick that's the problem (3 m/c in 12 months) I dont want to spend thousands on ivf just to m/c again! Like I have said in the above - get dh on a health kick, no smoking no drinking, eating right, get him on menevit or spermax, wear loose fitting jocks, don't have hot baths. I hope that some lifestyle changes make all the difference for the both of you! Goodluck :)

[MARTTC]

Hey marttc, basically I am still ttc naturally- I really don't see the point in ivf if we can conceive naturally and we know we can it's just getting them to stick that's the problem (3 m/c in 12 months) I dont want to spend thousands on ivf just to m/c again! Also our last result back in jan was only 2% normal and we have still conceived! Like I have said in the above - get dh on a health kick, no smoking no drinking, eating right, get him on menevit or spermax, wear loose fitting jocks, don't have hot baths. I hope that some lifestyle changes make all the difference for the both of you! Goodluck :)

Thanks!! I'll be sure to update you after our appt with our fertility specialist... Does it seem to take you long to fall pregnant? We have been trying 12 months!!! :-(

[MARTTC]

Makes sense about not wanting to do ivf when you have had some m/c's :(
Here's hoping 2012 is our year!! :-)

[MARTTC]

We have just seen the FS and been told we have a 1% chance....
Do the FS make money off us if he sent us down the IVF track.... ????
We thought maybe that why he has told us that's our only chance... Well he said, never say never.... But said it could take us years & years & still it might not help..... He said we have a really good chance with IVF..... :-/ confused....

[Cherished]

Sorry to hear that MARTTC, But I just want to let you know that we got told our only chance would be IVF and we have managed to get UTD several times in 1 year! It's just the getting them to stick part which is the tricky part for us. Goodluck with whatever you decide to do. Feel free to send me a PM if you want to chat!

[MARTTC]

Thank you :-)

See I wonder to myself how you guts have conceived naturally with higher numbers... Sorry to hear of the 3mc :( hugs!!
We have nor even managed 1 bfp?! That's why I'm thinking we may not... Maybe there is something wrong with me they can't see. DH having another SA done Friday, we had a second opinion today and we will go from there... Will keep you updated!
Hope you are feeling okay? X

[Cherished]

I hope you see some improvement in your next lot of testing! Has your DH been on menevit for 3 months yet? We saw a good improvement on DPs numbers (count) after menevit plus after he quit smoking.
My DP has been on menevit, vit C, and Co Enzyme Q10 but we swapped the menevit for sperm max about 5months ago to give that a try plus we use preseed. If you don't mind me asking, What testing have you and hubby had?
goodluck

[MARTTC]

So sorry missed your reply, had my wisdom teeth out & have been out of action but missed this one totally.
I would say menevit approx 3 months, cut right down on coffee, eating MUCH better & almost cut alcohol... Should get results any day now :-))
Umm tests.... I had a blood test for ovulation, thyroid - internal & external ultra sounds.
DH - 2 semen analysis, one just at a general lab but morphology came back @ 97%... the doc said they are not as accurate as IVF labs so sent him to Melb IVF where the result came back @ 91%.....
We got a second opinion & he is retesting Lee @ Monash IVF & hopeful for results any day now.
If his results come back any lower the Dr wants me to do a lascropy (can't spell) just to make sure I'm also not blocked... But I'm going to ask how much this really increases our chances when DH has poor abnormal sperm morphology :-/
Do you mind me asking what you and DH have been tested for?

[Cherished]

I havent had a laparoscopy (spelling?) I haven't been told to have one (yet)
I have how ever had a HyCosy which is where they insert a dye into your uterus and they watch the dye (by ultrasound) flow through your fallopian tubes to check for any blockages. It is less invasive than a laparoscopy. I have had countless BT and I cant even remember what they were all for, Ovulation FSH, progesterone, Oestrogen, thyroid plus all my extra ones trying to find out why I keep miscarrying. I have had heaps of ultrasounds to see if I ovulate and checking for polyps, fibroids, cysts extra.
DP has had 2 SA both at the general lab as we aren't through a fertility clinic. If I think of anything else I will let you know.

Hope you are feeling better after having your wisdom teeth out......ouch

[MARTTC]

Thanks.
Called the Dr today & our results have come back the same apparently.. I will pick a copy up tomorrow but I'm guessing about 91% & that is with all these lifestyle changes, it's really depressing. You got the spelling right :-) umm I thought that was where they go in and have a look and use the dye?? Maybe I should ask about that instead?! Was it painful & or expensive? Are you okay to share DH % of abnormal sperm? I'm just so curious how you have managed to fall pregnant 3 x and we cant even once in over a year!!! :-/ makes me think maybe there is something they can't find wrong with me....
I really hope they find out why you keep having m/c... Life just seems so unfair sometimes.
Think we are seriously considering trying our luck with IVF as they seem to think we have a really good chance!! :)
Just worried financially & how I am going to get around this with work :-/

[Cherished]

With the Hycosy I did find it painful, but I think thats because the Dr was running over an hour and half late! I was told to take pain relief just before my appointment which I did but by the time I was seen and then by the time they eventually did the procedure I think the pain relief had worn off. It just felt like really bad period pain but it only lasted for less than a minute.
Ask about the laparoscopy and what they wil be looking for.
We were told by a Dr that we would need IVF because of DPs levels but then the following month another Dr said that his levels were fine??
I will PM you DPs %

[lannie]

Thanks.
Think we are seriously considering trying our luck with IVF as they seem to think we have a really good chance!! :)
Just worried financially & how I am going to get around this with work :-/

Hi, I just came across this thread and thought I'd reply to your post. After I had test, after test, after test to try and work out why we couldn't fall pregnant, DH was tested too and turns out that he has very low sperm count and poor morphology. According to various FS, there isn't in all honesty, much they can do to fix male inftertility problems, unless something else has been detected (such as a blockage, varicocele etc). After this test, I went in for a laparoscopy, which found very mild endo, which was removed, but no other problems. We were told that IVF using ICSI was our best bet. So, we had our first cycle in December. Unfortunately, this wasn't successful. We are about to start our next cycle where they're using a method called ICSI-HA, which is a better way of sperm selection and encourages embryo growth when previous growth had been poor. I'm much hopeful this time around.
I was totally petrified about IVF. About the financial constraints and also about work. Financially, it's not as bad as we thought, but does require some forward planning. We have health insurance that covers IVF, so for us, the cycle cost around $4000 out of pocket, but needed to have access to around $9000 (thanks to credit cards), before Medicare paid the rebate.
Work was okay. I told a couple of people just so they knew where I was, but debating whether to tell my boss this time. I agree, this part can be tricky.
As far as the rest of the process goes, I found that it wasn't as physically taxing as I thought. The emotional side of things can certainly take you by suprise - no matter how strong you think you are!
Saying this, I do hope you manage to fall pregnant naturally, that is the ideal option for us all. If you do happen to venture down the IVF path, or if you'd like to ask any questions etc, feel free to message me. I know how daunting it can be at first.
Take care, look after yourself and also, look after each other.
xx

Sorry, also read your question above about the laparoscopy. My FS (also through Monash) prefers his patients to have a laparoscopy as it better prepares everything for the process and makes sure the uterus is clear etc... If you do have this, make sure you have a wheat bag ready for when you get home - it was a godsend to me!!!

[nattie84]

Cherished we r sort of in the same boat. Good numbers but low morph 4% and I ha some mild endo removed a few months ago and I also ovulate late (cd18 +).

We have been eating healthy eyc etc taking all the vitamins and when we did our iUi 2 wks ago our numbers were worse. :fingerscrossed: That it works but after 2 yrs of ttc and nothing it's really hard. IVF ICSI seems to be our only hope but after the stress etc of the last 4 weeks I am ready to give up cause I don't know if I can do it.

[MARTTC]

Thanks cherished :)
I'll keep you posted...

Lanie - thanks for your amazing info!
We are booked in for IVF... Hopeful to start late Feb! :-)
Excited & scared.....
I guess we might know more if the first one isn't successful I'm going to get them to test me a little further.
Sorry to hear about your first IVF cycle, let me know how you go, I'll be thinking of you :)
PS totally freaking out about the needles but I know it's for a good cause.....

[MARTTC]

Mattie don't give up :)
Have you further investigated IVF ICSI? I've tried & feel like I've learnt a lot & there's still so much to learn.
As we are going ahead, Melbourne ivf sent us a book & DVD it's really good, explains so much & I'm really hopeful :-)

[MARTTC]

That was meant to say Nattie

[tiggerfields]

Hey Cherished,

We have the same problem - DH's first SA came back today at 0%. We too get pregnant ok - two early mc/s in six months of trying. Looking forward to FS appt next week so I can ask if it's related to mc.

Hard to understand why we are able to get pg but not stay that way. Particularly as DH has two kids from a previous marriage and I have DS.

[Cherished]

Hey Tigger! Keep me updated on what your FS has to say about morphology and m/c. I have wondered if that could be the cause to my losses but my FS said last time that he doubts that would be the cause. Have you and DP had any recurrent m/c testing yet? I have had some but it seems to be fine so far, I am waiting on more results from a second lot of testing.

[nattie84]

Mattie don't give up :)
Have you further investigated IVF ICSI? I've tried & feel like I've learnt a lot & there's still so much to learn.
As we are going ahead, Melbourne ivf sent us a book & DVD it's really good, explains so much & I'm really hopeful :-)

Well.... We just did our first IVF ISCI and we are pregnant!! (waiting for bloods to confirm in a few days). We never got pregnant on our own at all before.