Concerned and don't know how to talk about it

[lilly]

Hi there,

this is my first experience of this - my DD has a very close relationship with my ex-inlaws who are retired Italians. She was sleeping over there on Sat night so that I could have a rare night out when they called me at about midnight saying she was sick (I could hear her crying in the background, she's only 5). I went straight over and she was saying 'I'm itchy, I'm itchy downstairs..'. I took her back home and gave her a little bath with salt, and then with another solution that deals with nappy rash - essentially she was red all over her nether regions just like a baby with nappy rash. I found this odd because she was fine when I dropped her off at 6pm and she hasn't had this happen since she was a baby. Then the next day she was complaining of a sore bottom, even between going to the toilet - I had a look and couldn't see anything - but then I asked her if anything had happened and she told me a vague story of being 'poked' by her grandfather while she was asleep in another room with her grandmother (he had come in I think) and the grandmother had told him to go away. ]

In an attempt to reinact it I told her to pretend that I was her (and I curled up pretending to be asleep) and she came and poked her finger 'down there'. I asked if it was over or under her clothes and she said over. And she said he didn't mean it it was a mistake.

After this, I recalled a time where I needed to drop her off there and only her grandfather was home and she freaked out and made me stay there until her grandmother came home. At the time I just thought she had a problem with male figures (cos of her absent father) but now I'm thinking differently. I have called DHS for advice because I thought she should be checked out and they put me through to RCH but they thought an exam would be too much and that I would have noticed more from a full on assault - that said, they DID say that they thought I had picked up on something early and that she should NEVER stay there where she may be alone with GF.

I totally agree, and there will be no more sleepovers or even visits alone to their house. I just don't know how to broach the subject with GM, given it sounds she must know but in knowing her, I think she would desperately deny anything. Before speaking to RCH, she had already phoned me giving me a heap of different reasons for what had happened and that my daughter was sick because of her diet etc. It sounded like she was panicking.

I know she is very protective of DD and they are close, but I'm going to have to have this discussion with her. It will break her heart to cut her off, and the only solution I can think of is that she come to my place without GF, and preferably when I'm around. That said, if I'm not around, how do I know she won't let GF over? It may sound simplistic to others who read this, but they have been my ONLY support system, especially GM, who is like a mother to me. How do I say this to her? Any advice welcome. :no::(

[gonnabeaGR8mum]

:hugs::hugs: what an awful situation :no:

firstly i would ask the GM to come to your house for a chat (without GF), this way if she gets upset she can leave and not feel like she's being attacked or what not in her own house.

secondly i would explain what i saw and that i had rung the DHS and what their advice was. explain that your DD seems fearful of GF and that you are very concerned for her

finally i would tell her what you've told us, about how important she is to you and your DD and how you really want to have her in your lives but not at the risk of your DD safety. Explain that she is always welcome in your home but that you'd prefer that GF would not accompany her as your DD deserves to feel safe in her own home.

:hugs::hugs: i couldn't in good faith allow my DD to be alone with GF ever again if that happened :hugs: my heart goes out to you :no:

[earlgrey]

oh gosh :(
I am probably not super helpful but couldn't read and not reply. I would not let him near my child ever again. I would take it further and also have him charged. The rash etc sounds like more happened then over clothes touching :( I would get her medically examined including std checks and get a good child counsellor. It's hard to find things out without asking leading questions kwim? Can you maybe speak to a female police officer? They may be helpful. :hugs:

[firsttimegrandma]

Not sure which state you live in, if you look on line for the sexual assault service in your state and call them. In vic it is centre against sexual assault, they will be able to guide you as to the best way to support your child, as for the gm it sounds like she is fearful of her husband and his actions but may not bein a position to tell you the issues (italian and possibly elderly? I suggest talk to casa or the equivalent and they may also be able to give you some tips, very experienced and skilled staff that deal with these issues in an age appropriate way. I wishyougood luck and I am sorry you find your family in this predicament. Good luck and god bless
:hugs:

[LibranTwin]

Huge huge hugs. What a horrible situation for you both.

I too would never allow your GF near DD again. I like the idea of inviting your GM over for a chat and also of counselling for your daughter, even if it's just one session so you can discuss it with the counsellor.

[MsTruth]

You must have so many thoughts and emotions running through your head at the moment :(

I am not sure how I would ultimately handle this situation but I would start with talking to the GM, in your home as previously suggested.

I don't know that I would go down the police route only because it will be traumatic for both you and your daughter and they are not going to bring charges against the GF without physical evidence or at the very least a witness statement from your GM.

Continue speaking to child welfare department, see what agencies they can refer you and your daughter to for counselling and support - both with this issue and with trying to establish new support networks.

[BabushkaMumma]

This scenario happened to me at 5.
I stayed over night at an older family friends house - like grandparents to me.

He came in, touched me and I yelled out for his wife, he dismissed her and she never came inside the room.

From there, it escalated into years of rape - essentially because the one time I mustered up the courage to tell my Mum - she didn't believe me and it set up a volatile relationship with her for about 18 years.

I am glad you listened and believed your daughter - and your action that follows of taking this further will be an important message you give her - that you support her and will never let her down. Her quickly telling you shows the trust she has in you - you obviously have a lovely relationship.

Yes, you must speak with her GM. Sadly, she may have an inclination but to acknowledge it will probably send her world crashing down. It will be so uncomfortable - but it needs to be done. The GF has breeched your DDs trust and personal space is a gross violation. He doesn't deserve the privilege (it is not a right of his) of seeing his GD. If the GF isn't supportive of this - you may need to consider the same with her.

Then I would speak to your ex too - his response will show where his loyalty will lie and how much support you can expect.

Have you considered if you will take it further? My parents did, I never faced on the stand questioning - just an interview with a female officer. But that's such a personal decision and will depend on so many factors - including on how much you feel your DD could handle. My case ended in a 5 year good behavior bond - not enough to prevent him reoffending as I later discovered - sadly there is at times no justice in the justice system.

Pls seek out counseling for your DD - she will most certainly need to debrief the emotions that come with sexual abuse - and you will too.

You both will be of great support to each other - lots of love and positive affirmations will hopefully keep her going through what is no doubt a difficult time.

Big big Hug xxxx

[MamaNurture]

I am not any kind of expert in this matter but I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. What a hard thing for you and your dd to have to deal with. Everything everyone has said was so helpful and so I won't repeat it. I just wanted to say that I think you are so brave and courageous to take the actions you have. This will be such an important thing to your daughter, and so important to her healing. I don't know if you have done this, but it is so important for her to know that you believe her and that her telling you the truth was the right thing for her to do. I'm crying reading this as so many children don't receive the support and acknowledgement you have given your daughter. You are obviously a great and protective mum.

[sweet_lemons]

Children don't make up stories like this. Please report this to the authorities!

[Alexander Beetle]

I think you have been given some great advice here. I do think calling CASA for more help is a really good idea as well. Most of all, trust your instincts. You are doing the right thing by your child. If it was my child, GF would never, ever have contact again.

[2darlingboys]

I would be speaking to father & GM.
& get your daughter checked out.

Big hugs x

[lilly]

I am not any kind of expert in this matter but I am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse. What a hard thing for you and your dd to have to deal with. Everything everyone has said was so helpful and so I won't repeat it. I just wanted to say that I think you are so brave and courageous to take the actions you have. This will be such an important thing to your daughter, and so important to her healing. I don't know if you have done this, but it is so important for her to know that you believe her and that her telling you the truth was the right thing for her to do. I'm crying reading this as so many children don't receive the support and acknowledgement you have given your daughter. You are obviously a great and protective mum.

MamaNuture - what a lovely thing to write; I'm crying too. I in no way consider myself to be a 'great' mum, I just want to do the right thing in this situation and I'm finding it less 'black and white' than I ever thought it would be. Absolutely I believe everything my DD says, though she is only 5 and things don't come out fluently or well expressed - the hard thing is that where people may be letting her down, there are also people connected to those people who are gold. So in thinking this through I'm going to offer GM a path to keep connected to DD and will block off GF, even without definite proof because I feel I have too and just can't take the risk. x

[siesmum]

As some one that was assaulted as a child and had their mother look the other way, thank-you for listening to your daughter.
I agree with what other posters have suggested. Good luck

[Lateralus]

No advice above & beyond what has already been said.. But just wAnted to send my support through what will do doubt be a hard time! Xoxo

[Annabella]

Just wanted to say good on you for being so strong for your dd even without 'definite' proof and against people you love and are such good support to you . The world needs more mamas like you.

[The Girls Only Club]

Firstly enormous hugs. I don't have anything more to add as all the PP's gave excellent advice.

I cried reading your post. This has stirred many memories for me. Your daughter will remember forever that you believed her. That is huge for a survivor, to know that their mum was in their corner when everyone else may believe they are lying. That their mum is ready to defend her and protect her. My mother didn't believe me and even now 18 years later that hurts more then what happened to me. When I needed her most she was too busy trying to get her father to forgive her. Even after he plead guilty she believes I was making it up.

[Tam-I-Am]

Hey there Lilly.

First off, thank you so much for taking the action that you have done already. Protecting your daughter is the absolute foremost concern right now, and you've done exactly the right things.

I agree re: talking the the grandmother, but be prepared for her to be anything from shocked and appalled, to angry and defensive. She may attack you (not physically, I don't mean, verbally) and tell you that you're making up stories - or she may be relieved to finally be able to have somebody to discuss her husband's appalling behaviour with. There is no way to predict what her reaction is going to be, but you can bet it won't be easy whatever it is.

I think you're ABSOLUTELY right in saying that your DD is never to be in her GF's company again, but I think you really need to take it one step further and prevent him from seeing her again, at least until she's an adult and can make that decision for herself. Children do not make up stories of this nature, and his behaviour isn't innocent. Your daughter was sexually assaulted by this man and needs to be protected.

I would also strongly, STRONGLY suggest that you seek some counselling for your DD. It may seem that she's okay at the moment, and the fact that she's believed by you and you've taken steps to protect her will play a huge role in how well she heals, but she is going to need some further support, and it can be overwhelming as a parent to know how to provide that. You can try looking at this link to find a suitably qualified psychologist in your area - http://www.psychology.org.au/FindaPsychologist/

Make sure you get some support for yourself, too, hey?

:hugs:

[bAaM]

I have no advice as i have never bee in this situation and hope and pray i never am cause i would want to kill the person. BUT i couldnt read and not reply.

Your little girl is very lucky to have a mum like you. Take some credit mate, you have started the healing prossess straight away.

I have to agre that i think you should take it further if you think your daughter will be ok. This man needs to be brought to justice cause while its your baby today its someone elses tomorrow :(

[mother of six]

Firstly i'm really sorry that you and your daughter has been put in this position.:hugs: I can't stress how important it is for you to get in contact with a support agency such as Casa. Even if you don't feel comfortable with anyone speaking with your daughter, they are great to speak to and will help give advise on ways to deal with the situation. As a foster mother to a child who was sexually abused from a family member I have spent the last 2 years becoming educated in protective parenting. It is crucial your daughter knows the diffrent between safe and unsafe touches, that what her gf did was not ok and that you will not allow him to do it EVER again. Alot of times after a child has been exposed to sexuall abuse and are not taught about what is ok and not the can them become easier targets for further abuse as they believe this is ok. In regards to whether or not you contact the police, that's up to you. There does not need to be a witness or medical evidence for charges to be laid. Foster daughter's father was convicted to nearly 13 years without any physical evidence other than her discloures. Even if charges are not made atleast if in the future this was to happen to someone else there would be something on record to support a history.
I hope that your daughters father and grandmother work with you to protect your daughter. You have already done the most important thing for your daughter by believing her :)


FACT- PAEDOPHILES ARE LIKELY TO RE-OFFEND..
FACT- THE MAJORITY of PAEDOPHILES WILL ABUSE 45-135 VICTIMS EACH

● Ninety-seven percent of sex offenders are
male
● Eighty percent of adult sexual assault
victims know the offender
● Seventy-six percent of female and seventy
percent of male child sexual assault victims
know the offender
● In the overwhelming majority of instances
of child sexual offence, the perpetrator is
the father, stepfather, mother's de facto
partner, brother, uncle or grandfather of the
victim

[mother of six]

Something I will never forget is when our foster daughter came into our care and asked me if my dh was going to do the bad thing, I told her that never ever would he do that to her. A few weeks later we were driving and she just said,"you really are a safe dad arn't you". We just looked at each other and our eyes both filled with tears. No matter what anyone tells you just know you are doing what needs to be done, and that is putting your daughters best interest first. :)

[lilly]

Hey there Lilly.

First off, thank you so much for taking the action that you have done already. Protecting your daughter is the absolute foremost concern right now, and you've done exactly the right things.

I agree re: talking the the grandmother, but be prepared for her to be anything from shocked and appalled, to angry and defensive. She may attack you (not physically, I don't mean, verbally) and tell you that you're making up stories - or she may be relieved to finally be able to have somebody to discuss her husband's appalling behaviour with. There is no way to predict what her reaction is going to be, but you can bet it won't be easy whatever it is.

I think you're ABSOLUTELY right in saying that your DD is never to be in her GF's company again, but I think you really need to take it one step further and prevent him from seeing her again, at least until she's an adult and can make that decision for herself. Children do not make up stories of this nature, and his behaviour isn't innocent. Your daughter was sexually assaulted by this man and needs to be protected.

I would also strongly, STRONGLY suggest that you seek some counselling for your DD. It may seem that she's okay at the moment, and the fact that she's believed by you and you've taken steps to protect her will play a huge role in how well she heals, but she is going to need some further support, and it can be overwhelming as a parent to know how to provide that. You can try looking at this link to find a suitably qualified psychologist in your area - http://www.psychology.org.au/FindaPsychologist/

Make sure you get some support for yourself, too, hey?

:hugs:

Thank you so much for your response - I think that you are right in seeing a psychologist as I feel out of my depth here - I've looked up the site and have sent an email to someone in my area. I feel much better taking some sort of action, thanks so much for the info x

[Tam-I-Am]

Thank you so much for your response - I think that you are right in seeing a psychologist as I feel out of my depth here - I've looked up the site and have sent an email to someone in my area. I feel much better taking some sort of action, thanks so much for the info x

Excellent. Well done :)

Be aware, too, that your daughter will be eligible for a Mental Health Plan from your/her GP. This will entitle her to 12 sessions in a 12 month period with a psychologist at a rebated (or perhaps bulk-billed) rate. This can help immensely with the costs of accessing a psych :)

[Bubmum]

Please please please follow through and get your DD some help. I was attacked when I was 4 by a family friend, and it went on for 6 months until I couldn't bear it any longer and told my Mother. She protected me, and believed me, and that made the world of difference. But after it all blew up and everyone found out, it was never addressed again, and I was left to deal with things on my own. My life would have been so different if I had been given help then, and help makes such a difference.

You are such a brave wonderful Mummy. There is no doubt really that something very disturbing has happened. To be perfectly honest I think you are only going to get lies and excuses from the GM. She has already called you trying to cover up his crime, but that is only to be expected really. People will still not openly fight this behaviour, in some ridiculous brush it under the carpet motion that is not at all constructive. :hugs: to your DD. My heart is breaking for you both.

[lilly]

Firstly enormous hugs. I don't have anything more to add as all the PP's gave excellent advice.

I cried reading your post. This has stirred many memories for me. Your daughter will remember forever that you believed her. That is huge for a survivor, to know that their mum was in their corner when everyone else may believe they are lying. That their mum is ready to defend her and protect her. My mother didn't believe me and even now 18 years later that hurts more then what happened to me. When I needed her most she was too busy trying to get her father to forgive her. Even after he plead guilty she believes I was making it up.

TCOC,
thank you so much for your post. :hugs: It sounds as if your mother let YOU down, which is in NO way your fault. And maybe in her mind she doesn't see it...doesn't make it any less painful...

[FloatingFairy]

OMG :( I nearly threw up when I read that, and I have a pretty strong stomach.

I'm so sorry you and your daughter are going through this. I have no advice, but couldn't read and not reply/

:hugs: Hope everything gets sorted and your daughter never has to go through anything remotely like this again :hugs:

[MummyHas3boys]

:hugs: I have no advice, but I just wanted to say your daughter is so lucky to have such a beautifully caring mum.

[our little treasures]

I have Pm'd you :hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

[lemonpancakes]

Good luck, you have gotten such great advice from the women here. I just wanted to ask, does this couple have any other grandchildren or children they have contact with? If so I'd be speaking with their parents too.

[trishalishous]

:hugs::hugs::hugs: no advice just :hugs:

[MamaC]

Lilly, I am so sorry that you and your daughter are going through this. I have to applaud (standing ovation, more like) you for listening to your daughter and BELIEVING HER :hugs:

So much amazing advice has already be given, but I wanted to reply to send you support and strength.

And thank you. I know you posted asking for advice, but I feel that your thread will serve as a reminder to all of us. Respect and honour what our children tell us and follow our instincts. Thanks Lilly.

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs:
Thinking of you and your daughter.

[c38]

:hugs::hugs::hugs:
Such a very hard situation to have to deal with, and you have done it so well. I hope her GM is receptive and protective too.
I second all the advice you have been given. Though from personal and professional experience I also advise you to contact CASA. I'm surprised RCH didn't offer conselling via their branch. CASA can offer not only your daughter counselling but also yourself and her father and Grandmother if they wish. They would also have a program of protective behaviour education.

[2boybubs]

I couldn't read and not post, my heart just breaks for you. I do think the GM knew what was going on, she didn't put your daughter in a room by herself, she didn't bring her into their room, she slept in a separate room with her. She told the GF to go away. Hopefully someone who deals with this sort of thing can help you with how to approach GM, I'm so sorry your going through this. :hugs:

[BabushkaMumma]

Hello Lilly,

Have been thinking about you and your DD.

How did you go speaking with your DD's Grandmother?

I hope that she has been supportive..:hugs:

[Just*Ace]

No advice but :hugs::hugs::hugs: for you & your DD