vitamin K

[csackett]

hi there. i am expecting my first baby in nov and went to the midwfie for check up the other day - all good! :) she gave me some info to start doing up my birth plan. my Q to you is about vitamin K? to give vs. not to give and injection vs. oral? also i am trying to find out more about the third stage of labour - delivering the placenta. not something i had really thought about - assumed it was fairly natural. but apparently i have to choose if i want drugs to help it along or just to wait... any thoughts and opinions would be great. :confused:
Ta

[Ffrenchknickers]

Hi:)

I have only got a sec. then gotta go, but just quickly regarding the delivery of the placenta, I have experienced it both ways - with the routine injection and natural...I much preferred natural as my bleeding was greatly reduced post birth and I figure that is the way the body is designed to do it.

Do heaps of reading about the thrid stage and if you decide NOT to have the injection make sure you are very clear and firm....they usually give the injection routinely without you even realising you have had it. Alot of places wont even ask you if you want it or not so if you decide not to, make sure you tell them (and your birth support people.) Do heaps of reading and be firm in what you want because some doctors and nurses will try to talk you out of it - so know your facts!

With the vitamin K there are some natural ways to take care of this if you decide you want to go that way. Hopefully JanetF will be along soon with some websites you can check out :D

Good luck in your search! :)

[csackett]

thanks for your reply. i am having bub at the birth center and they seem pretty good at finding out what i want and hopefully following through with this. naturally letting it birth seems the most... well natural option. will give it a go. thanks again.

[Ffrenchknickers]

Oh yaya! Thats where we had Millar...you will LOVE LOVE LOVE IT!!! They are great with encouraing you to be natural!!

[Rainbowbrite]

I had the injection to deliver the placenta they gave me the option at the hospital. Don't know what it would have been like without, but after having MJ, hardly felt a thing.

We opted to have MJ get the Vitamin K injection at birth after asking around to all ladies I knew with bubs. If it could have been done naturally I may have opted for that but wasn't aware there was a choice.

RB

[JanetF]

Hi :D Here are some things you may find useful to your research. Personally I won't give Vit K to my baby if they have a gentle birth. There's Vit K present in breastmilk in a readily absorbed form so I think nature has figured this one out ok ;)

Vitamin K
http://www.midwiferytoday.com/enews/enews0344.asp#main

http://gentlebirth.org/Midwife/vitamink.html

http://gentlebirth.org/cgi-bin/query.pl?swishindex=%2Fusr%2Fhome%2Ffalcao%2Findex .swish&metaName=Keywords&keywords=vitamin+k&detail=yes&maxresults=40


A managed 3rd stage is not necessary, or even good medicine. And related to that is leaving your baby to finish with their placenta before you cut it off them. Some women don't cut it off at all but leave it to come away naturally in a lotus birth. This usually only takes a few days.

Why a physiological 3rd stage is better - good info to give careproviders!

http://midwiferytoday.com/articles/bristol.asp

Most hospitals have a policy of mandatory managed 3rd stage of labour and base their reasons on a trial known as the Bristol trial. Here a respected doctor analyses the trial and discusses why it is intrinsically flawed and physiological 3rd stages are better for mothers and babies.



The Bristol Third-Stage Trial

by John Stevenson

If you set out to compare a policy of intensive, precipitous intervention with a policy of sitting back and watching the patient bleed, obviously the former will be seen to be safer. This was the approach and conclusion of the Bristol Third-Stage Trial. But the trial, based on false premises, is completely misleading, and numerous criteria are mistaken, misunderstood or misinterpreted.

Read the rest at the link...

http://www.cordclamping.com/

The Dangerous Practice of Early Clamping of the Umbilical Cord
For this and many more relevant articles see the website.
Immediate Cord Clamping: the Primary Injury

By George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG (obgmmorley@aol.com)

Immediate clamping of the umbilical cord before the child has breathed (ICC) has been condemned in obstetrical literature for over 200 years. [1] [2] In the 1970s, primate research [A][3][4] using ICC to produce neonatal asphyxia resulted in brain lesions similar to those of human “neonatal asphyxia.” Two extensive review papers on placental transfusion and the time of cord clamping [5,6] both condemned the practice of ICC:

• Linderkamp ‘82 [5]: “… immediate cord clamping can cause hypovolemia, hypotension and anemia …”
• Peltonin ’81 [6]: “Thus [clamping before the first breath] is unphysiological and should be avoided under certain unfavourable circumstances the consequences may be FATAL.”

Peltonen described the effect of ICC on cardiac ventricle filling visualized under fluoroscopy – there was momentary “cardiac arrest.” This effect is seen in [A] when a normal neonate is subjected to ICC: the heart rate (AND CARDIAC OUTPUT) fall immediately by about 50%. The umbilical vein is comparable to the vena cava. Sudden removal of this large venous return to the heart has major effects on tissue perfusion of the neonate, as does sudden removal of a very large volume of placental blood from the general circulation.

However, in the early 1980’s, ICC use increased, as neonatologists demanded ICC for instant neonatal transport to the resuscitation table to correct and prevent neonatal asphyxia. Neonatal deaths decreased markedly; the incidence of cerebral palsy stayed constant. Lives were saved; brains were not saved.

PM me if you want any more info :D

[Kassiasmum]

I had my dd at the birth centre as well and found the midwives excellent. We opted to give dd vit k orally. As for birthing the placenta, I had intended on doing this naturally and letting the cord stop pulsating before clamping, but due to complications, had to have the injection and also have the cord clamped straight away. I had total faith in my midwife as she knew what we wanted and that medical intervention wasn't an option unless absolutely necessary and we just trusted her judgement.

Good luck
Tracey

[Kamaikia]

There are many things that have got me a bit angry after childbirth and these are the main topics. When I had my son I wasn't asked about the needle to deliver the placenta - it was just given to me and I was also never asked about the vitamin K or hepatitis shot and they were both given to my son. Please make sure your midwifes not only know your choice but respect it

[csackett]

thanks everyone for your comments - this is my first time posting here (have been reading the posts avidly for the 8 months of my pregnancy though!)

will take the natural option (if all goes well) for placenta and will do some more research on the vit K issue. i have no dramas with injections for bub as i would do anything to keep it safe and healthy - just want to make sure i know all the facts.

ta again

[Baby Girl]

I delivered DD1's placenta naturally, it was about 10 minutes after the birth and I hardly felt a thing. DD2's I was given the injection my the midwife in delivery (she didn't even ask me or tell me just jabbed me with it!!) and it was over and done with in about 2 minutes so really not a great amount of difference.

Good luck!

[LucyE]

I wasn't given an option about a physiological third stage, it was just assumed that you'd have it managed. I've since read up on it and am now more informed so won't be letting that happen again :mad:

We chose to give our DS Vit K orally because I didn't feel it was necessary to bombard his little body with something foreign so soon after birth. I was given heaps of flak over this and constantly questioned by our pead, ob and midwives. I was well informed and firm with them all but I think with all that pressure they may have convinced a less confident/tired mum to give in.

JanetF I didn't realise there was Vit K in breastmilk? From my reading it is something that develops in the baby's intestines after a few weeks. If there is Vit K in breastmilk I won't bother with it next time.


I was also never asked about the vitamin K or hepatitis shot and they were both given to my son
I'm shocked. I hope that was a while ago. We had to sign multiple consent forms for anything to be done to DS, and if they gave him anything without our consent, there would have been some serious legal ramifications for the hospital!

[JanetF]

Lucy there is indeed plenty Vit K in bm and you can up the amount by eating green leafy foods like parsley and spinach. Sadly it's pretty common that hospitals do stuff without consent from their clients. I hear more birth stories involving that than stories where the parents are consulted about everything. Particularly if you have a c-sec hospitals seem to think they own the baby.