3 Questions re dummy, wrapping and cot

[channy]

Hi all. My ds is 6 months old next week. Ok question one is more just wanting to see what other people's experiences have been. He has had a dummy basically since he was a few days old because he loved to suck (due to reflux and colic) and was the only way we could settle him. Now he uses it purely to sleep but through the night he is really unsettled and wakes 3-10 times a night wanting his dummy back. Sometimes when he is really bad it is almost every hour! Has anyone else found that their baby didn't sleep as well when using a dummy. How long did you wait before giving in and putting it back in?
Now to the next question. He is still wrapped at the moment. But because he is now rolling and kicking off his feet and almost able to roll while wrapped I decided it was probably time to get him out of the habit of being wrapped to sleep at night at least. I don't want him rolling while wrapped and not being able to push himself up off his face. The problem is tonight I just tried wrapping one arm and he went crazy and was moving his arm up and down and non stop talking. He did eventually settle but not without my dh having to stroke his face and try calm him down. How long should you just leave one arm out before not wrapping them at all? What else can I do other than wrapping so he knows it's time to sleep not play?

Ok and the next one is a little shorter! How long did people leave the cot in their room for? He is still in our room at the moment and I guess one of the reasons for that is because he is so unsettled at night I do not want to be getting up and down all night. At the moment he is right next to the bed so I can just reach over and put the dummy back in!

Thanks all for reading!

Chantell
Malakai (22 March 2005)

[mariafresnel]

Hi there,

It looks like you've just sent your post, so hope this helps. Our bub is 11 months old, and she is still a severe reflux baby.

DUMMY
She was given a dummy from birth, however, at 6 months I decided that getting up at night to put it back in, not to mention her broken sleep was not acceptable, so I decided to wean her off it. One thing I learnt from going to Tresillian was that they belive it takes a baby (through us) 5 days to create a habit and 5 days to break it. So with this knowledge and reading from Robin Barker's 'teaching to sleep' in Baby Love, as well as Tizzie Hall (www.saveoursleep.com?au?) that I needed to persist with the crying and fussing while I was weaning her off it. As it turned out the first night I didn't give her the dummy it took 40mins of crying etc, and then 20 the next time she woke up. By the end of the week, she was self settling. SUcking a dummy creates additonal acids in the stomach, which isn't particularly useful for a reflux baby. Summary, just stick with the weaning and continue to pat to sleep. I didn't and don't subscribe to control crying.

WRAP
Sophia (like your bub) thinks it's play time when out of her wrap. I had to resort back to wrapping about 8 weeks ago, and am weaning her off it this week, see how we go, because she thinks it's play time if she can get out of it, or she cries during the night. So given that she is a bigger baby, Iused the Tresillian technique of wrapping a bigger baby, and SOphia stayed in her wrap, as well as where I put her from around 7pm to 6/7am in the morning. Here is the technique:

1. cot is made up as normal i.e fitted sheet and then top sheet. I leave the side that i put baby in, undone of the top sheet, so that i can put that top sheet on top of baby plus the wrap around sheet.

2. the wrap around sheet is what envelopes the baby in her wrap, and essentially is the key to not getting out of the wrap or moving around. I fold the sheet (baby cot 'cot flat sheet' used as the wrap) long ways, so that I have enough to put under the mattress (roll/fold a bit of the sheet at the tip of where you will tuck it under the mattress and pull it so there is a bit of grip when tucked under the mattress. this is important because when you pull it across the baby to do the final tuck under the mattress you want to make sure it doesn't come out from under the mattres). Once you've tucked it in under the mattress (pref the side that you put the baby in), you flatten the sheet out across the bed, so if you were to put your baby on it, their back would be in the middle (head and feet out). Once you've put them in the middle you will bring the excess over across the baby (adjust baby as pullng tis wrap around sheet tilts them a bit) and tuck under the mattress. I wrap my baby on my bed or sometimes in the cot, and then put them in the middle of this wrap around sheet, pull the sheet over and tuck it under the mattress, then pull the top sheet across for double secure grip.

3. I wrap Sophia in a baby flat cotton cot sheet these days (as per Tresillian do), as it makes sure I have enough to go around her, and length on her feet also.

The benefits of wrapping are (for us sleep deprived mums):

1. Given that our babies are stronger and smarter than when they were tiny babes, they can wiggle their way out of the wrap (that's why we need to use a sheet).

2. the wrap around sheet makes sure that they dont' roll which makes sure it's safe for our older babies.

3. they are able to sleep for longer periods, without the temptation of rolling around and playing, and therefore not sleeping when they should be.

Downsides:

1. SOmetimes with the amount of sheets and top sheets etc I've got on her, she gets hot, so what i've resorted to is always (no matter what the weather) only put her in a jump suit (legless). If it's colder I add 'light' blankets for warmth, otherwise she gets to hot and sweaty and wakes up. Colder nights I put long sleeve one and warmer nights, short sleeve. So we've got this one under control now.

2. Sometimes may cry and want to get out. I gage the cry, only if it's a hysterical cry (not many of these any more as she now knows that this is the way she goes to sleep), I pick her up and unwrap her, give her a cuddle, offer water, then re wrap and put back down, and walk out after giving her a kiss.

she's just awoken....so must go , let me know how you go, if you need call me xxx (edited out phone number)

ELIMINATING WRAP
I found that at 7 months I wanted to try 'no wrap' sleeping, but found it a little difficult to just put her in the cot, without her waking after 20 minutes and crawling around. What I did invest in, and allowed us to 'migrate' her from her wrap to still sleeping enclosed (if you like) is a 'grobag'. They are armless sleeping bags. I put her in the grobag, and used the wrap around sheet technique. THis allowed her to keep her arms free, yet not able to move up or down in her cot. REmember the wrap around sheet is the safety sheet, which prevents the baby from moving around unsafely. Also I re-implemented the wrap when Sophia was over tired; teething and not well, at these times she fell asleep within minutes of being wrapped, so I always use it as a 'last resort'. ALso remember that maybe it might be an idea to do without the wrap only when you think your baby is ready for it, it doesn't have to be when the books say. For example SOphia is 11 months, and I'm only trying it today for her to sleep without it, so far at 10.24pm so good! If she wakes though tonight and cannot get back to sleep I will wrap her, and I will try again tomorrow, until she learns...slowly and without crying is my objective for her.

COT IN ROOM
Sophia has slept in her cot, in her room, from birth. We have a monitor so that I can check on her breathing etc. BUt my personal opinion is that if you have the space, it's a good idea to move your bub out of your room soon. Remember, it might be an idea to implement one change at a time, so that your bub is not too disoriented. So maybe you could wean off the dummy first; keep baby in the wrap whilst they're in their own room, then after a little while try eliminating if you feel that your baby is ready, or do it in stages for example eliminate for day sleeps to see how they go, and still keep night sleeps...and progress from there.

Ok, let me know your thoughts and how you go. All the best for a good night,
maria

[bobtob]

Hi, I have a couple of suggestions for you that worked for me! My second son is a dummy fan, he is 2 next month and still loves to sleep with it! I like you gave him one from the start but was worried about the waking thing as my neices (twins) were shockers for loosing their dummies and waking until they were 3+ so a friend told me how as soon as her son could put the dummy in his mouth himself she put 10 in his cot so he could always find one so from about 7 months this is what Toby has done and ive never had a problem (im also lucky as he likes the cheap Happy Baby dummies!)
As for wrapping have you thought of a sleeping bag like a "grobag"? They keep baby snug but not wrapped, as with any new thing it will take getting used to so you may find you have to settle your baby until he is used to it but my boys love them and i find it makes bedtime a breeze as they know once the are zipped into their bag its time to sleep! (I say they but my oldest is no longer in a bag!)
Anyway, i hope this may help you, Good Luck, enjoy every moment!

[emilia-rose]

I have the same problem!!

Our little girl is 6months and we have tried to give up the dummy cold turkey twice....the 1st day was OK, but we caved in on the 2nd day as she screamed the house down. We tried the Tizzie Hall method (I have the article which is $8 to buy which I can forward to you), but I have just found in on another thread the Tresillian method of 2min out, 2 in, 4 out, 4 in etc, which I am going to try.

A friend told me that her bub (who is still wrapped and is 12 months old) finds his dummy by unwrapping himself, gets the dummy and puts is back in, then snuggles in the wrap again. I'm not willing to wait that long to have her sleep through the night (which she has only done a few times, fluke I think) so I am going to try and get rid of it. I like the idea of the grobag, so I might buy one to see how it goes.

The only reason our little one has a dummy is that my friends who have all had kids (I haven't had much to do with babies before ours) told us they are the best thing, so I just assumed all babies have dummies. HOW WRONG! But they kindly forget to tell me about their frequent sleep interruptions, and when I asked them about it, their reply "Oh yeah I had that too, isn't it the worst?!" So next baby is not having the dummy!

Good luck and I hope I hear a great success story from you soon.

[mariafresnel]

Don't loose heart.....most babies do have dummies, but by 6 months that's when it starts to interfere with 'all night sleeping'. As I mentioned in the thread to CHANNY......when our bub (now 11months) was 6 months I decided one night (my husband was away for business) that that was the night to start.....she cried 4 or 5 nights consecutively .....I did what you are going to do, i.e. keep going in etc....and it did work....after 5 days, she started to self settle. We were grateful that we did it then, and life seemed so much easier when we started to put her to sleep. So although your baby will scream the house down, you need to think that it will only be for a shortwhile, and there is an objective in mind that will actually help your baby in the end.

GROBAG
At about 7 months I introduced the grobag (look at the material weights espeically for summer i think you'll need the 0.5 weight) she slep well in it until she grew too long for the 6 months size...and the next size up which is 6-`8 months is too long, and I find that she twists herself in it, and wakes up as aresult of being all twisted (whereas the first one just fit her length). I'm now wrapping her again during the day, using he tresillian method, and at night i use the tresillian method for her bedding minus the actual wrap. THis allows her to move around. I had to wrap her again, as I found that she assoicated not being wrapped with playing, and therefore she didn't sleep. so by wrapping her again, I was giving her another opportunity to grow a little bit more before being unwrapped. Let me know if you need the instructions on the tresillian method for wrapping...i written it out for a few people, who have commented that it's worked wonders for them and their little bub.

all the best,
Maria

[mariafresnel]

Channy,

I was wondering how things have progressed with you and your baby since you last wrote?

Thinking of you
Maria

[channy]

I have started the unwrapping process. We have had one arm out for maybe 5 nights now. He sleeps no worse. I am hoping to train him to put the dummy in himself. But I will wait till the unwrapping process is complete. If that fails I will attempt weaning. I will also try him in his own room once he is unwrapped. It is a slow process!! I think he is teething so he is even more unsettled lately.

Chantell

[jaydensmum]

One- with the dummy we had the same prob with our DS. To fix the prob we wrapped him up as normal and put another blanket across the top of him and wrap it underneath him. This holds the dummy in and it's worked pretty well so far.

Two- We still wrap our DS, he is 6 months now. Do you wrap your little one with the tresillian wrap? If you wrap your bub with this technique they shouldn't be able to get out of it. Again if you use the extra blanket across the top and either tuck it underneath the bub or tuck it in the cot, it should help.

Three- we were naughty and had our DS in his bassinett in our room until only a couple of weeks ago. :p They recommend that bubs should be in their own room in a cot from about 5/6 months. It's apparently to stop problems as they get older and start recognising things. I personally think it's a personal decision, it's usually harder on the parents, than the babies when making that decision. I couldnt sleep the first night that he slept in his own room. I will say though we havent had any troubles with him since he moved into his own room. From one month old, he sleeps through the nights. I was really worried that by moving him he wont sleep through the night, but he still does.

I hope some of these things help you a little bit.

jaydensmum. :)

[emilia-rose]

One night I decided to just bite the bullet and start unwrapping bubs (the hotter weather helps), and giving her one of those teddy bears heads on a blanket as a soother and I bought a glow in the dark dummy (yes, they do exist and actually glow!). Tonight will be the second night, the 1st was a little rough but she managed to put the dummy in more times than I got up. But her day sleeps have been great, no disturbances!. Once she is Ok with not being wrapped, I'll look at getting rid of the dummy.

Will keep you updated! Thanks for all your advice and help.

[emilia-rose]

Well we have had a great 5 nights, bub has been sleeping through from 7pm to 7am with no disturbances!!!!! ANd I have given up the 10.30pm dream feed- I feel human again! Unwrapping has definently helped as she puts the dummy back in herself. But I have noticed a few things that have also helped- really watching her tired signs and putting her to bed, usually around 9am (for 2 hours) and then at 1pm (for 2 hours) andhave cut out her afternoon short nap at 4.30pm; introducing more solids during the day; letting her have quiet time on the couch before bed and having her dummy just so she can see how to put it in her mouth when she loses it (but she only has the dummy when she sleeps); giving her the little teddy blanket..she loves it (I'll have to buy more).

So don;t despair, it will happen.

Good luck!

[nemosmum]

Our DS had reflux too and we used the dummy also as he was a big baby and loved to suck all the time LOL :p
We went through the whole up/down middle of the night thing to, we perservered and eventually it stopped, at around 9 months DS gave the dummy up himself, he just simply wouldnt take it anymore and slept ok without it. Hopefully your little bub will do the same!
Re: wrapping we stopped just after 6 months as DS started crawling and wrapping became pointless. It took about a week before DS settled into the new routine of no-wrapping but after that it was smooth sailing :) To help get DS into the bed time mood we would usually read a story and give bub a cuddle then give him his wrap to snuggle into, DS is 14 months and still loves his wrap to cuddle at night, it really helps him settle.
Finally in RE; to your last Q thats a very personal choice we co-slept with bub but only for the first 3 weeks LOL than he was in his snuggle bed in his cot in his own room-which for us worked great. But like I said its a personal choice when you feel ready to move your bub into the nursery do it until then enjoy the closeness of having bub next to you while you sleep.......they grow so fast LOL :p

P.S I LOVE the name Malakai its such a beautiful name!

[Sarie]

Hi!
We've been through the same thing with the dummy. Though PJ (who is six months old) will now either not worry about it or manage to find it most of the time on his own. We still probably get up once or twice, usually early morning around 4am-5am to give it back. But it wasn't that long ago when we had to do the one hour thing either, maybe only a couple of weeks.

My boys were both terrible being wrapped. From about a week of age they both didn't want to have their arms in, and they do kick off their socks, and blankets, so from just a few weeks of age I've just rugged them up in a few layers (more so in winter) to make sure they're warm.

Nathan was in our room longer, I think he was about 7 months old before we put him into his own room. And I think that was more due to my husbands laziness. As our cot is quite large it wouldn't fit out of the door and had to be completely broken down to move it. So it wasn't until Nathan started crying to get our attention when he see us early in the morning when my husband decided to put him into his own room.
PJ was about 4 months and that was more due to the fact that we moved and the boys were going to share a room in the new house, so we wanted to get them used to it before we moved.

[sasholi]

Hi Channy.

I absolutely absolutely hear you. Our record was 12 times out of bed for dummy reinsert. Those (along with the first six weeks post birth) I label the “dark days”. I think I even have patches of memory missing due to sleep deprivation!!

Like your bubs, my LO only used the dummy to sleep. When he was waking once or twice a night for it, I was happy with that, but when it got to an average of six times a night, it was just too much for me!

Ok. My bubs is now dummy free and sleeping a consistent 7-8 hour stretch (I still feed him at about 10pm).
This is exactly how I did it. It may not be for everyone, and it took me a good three weeks of saying “maybe it will be better tonight” before I bit the bullet. I read hundreds of techniques and this is what I felt the most comfortable with, for me and for bubs. Bubs was 6 months old and I felt he was developmentally ready to go dummy free and to do it in this manner.

OK. I did use a method similar to controlled crying, only I did it in smaller increments.

I started in the morning because I figured if he didn’t sleep all day he would at least be totally zonked by the evening and he would sleep pretty well from his 6pm feed till his 10pm feed so if worst comes to worst I could sleep then. The plan: sleep/rest when/if bubs finally goes to sleep. You need your sustenance.

Put aside minimum three days to stay home and just do it.

I wasn’t going to slowly get him off the dummy. I knew cold turkey was the only way. And once I decided I just felt that it would be mean to do it for a day and then “give in” and give him the dummy after putting him through a full day of crying. Make sense?

OK. So I did this for every single nap, and I still do it to this day, even though he usually goes to sleep within 4 minutes now…

First nap at 8:
Went in and did the usual settling ritual – wander round his room, quiet talking, look outside the window, put some relaxing music on. Then we close the curtains and sit on the chair and have a cuddle. At this stage I would normally stick the dummy in and he would nearly drift off in my arms. But without dummy he started to squirm. I just held him there for a little bit, then put him in his cot, tucked him in, gave him a kiss, and walked out. He cried (of course).

After 2 minutes I went in and shhhh’d and patted his bum (do whatever settling technique bub is used to without picking up and no rocking etc) for 2 minutes. Then I walked out and waited for 4 minutes… then in for 4. By the end of the third minute in this set he was asleep.

The plan is in to go up in 2 minute increments up to 10 minute. At the end of the “out for 10 in for ten”, an hour is up. Get bubs and, give a drink of water. Take a walk in the backyard. Keep it simple but settle bubs down fully.

Then start again.

If you choose to do it, it WILL work. There have been a few sleeps where my bubs hasn’t slept (we’ve cried for an hour, I just got him up, played with him and said to myself; oh well, there is always next nap!).

The best thing was THAT SAME NIGHT HE SLEPT ALL THE WAY THROUGH. That night, bubs woke at 3:30, chatted to himself, grunted, went back to sleep after 5 minutes. He did that at 3:30, 4:30, 5:30, then woke for feed at 6:15.

It really works. But if you choose to do it, you need to stick to it. Otherwise it’s too confusing for you and bubs. But don’t do it if you feel it is wrong or you are uncomfortable with it (nervous is different to uncomfortable).

Anyway. That worked for me.

I’d pop bubs in his own room (if you are ready to part with him – it’s OK if you are not!!!). Once dummy is gone and sleep is sorted out (bubs needs to learn to sooth himself to sleep) you won’t need to be getting up to him so often.

Our bedroom is too small for us to have bubs in it, and co-sleeping didn’t work (I didn’t actually get any sleep!) so bubs was in his own room from an early age (but he lives right next door, so it’s very close).

I don’t know about the wrapping. Maybe it’s just a case of him getting used to having all that freedom. And the sleeping sacks and grosuits are great. I used to wrap my DS but stopped when he started unwrapping himself and I chucked him in a sleeping back and seemed to help quite a bit. He still goes to sleep best when firmly tucked in though…

Good luck, and happy parenting. Let us know how you go!!! But I definitely feel your pain. You are NOT ALONE when you are up for what seems the millionth time at 3am…

[Maxs_MumMy]

Gee im gunna sound like a hard mother now after reading everyones post...

Max is 5months old now and is a reflux baby as well...

Dummy.... he had it to sleep up until he was just 4months old and then i took it away, now he only has it after a bottle and solids...and sleep 7-730pm-7isham next day...

Wrapping...i only did that whilst at my stay in hospital..

Cot...Max has never slept in our room at all, always had his own room/cot...

my days of sleep deprivation only lasted 8 weeks and havent had it since thank fully...im glad i have a baby who loves his sleep as much as his parents...

[channy]

Thanks all for your advice. Nights are no better and we have gone back to wrapping only one arm and that seems to be ok. But he is still waking at least 5 times a night and just not settling well. I think I may try weaning the dummy and doing the 2min in 2min out thing but I don't know whether to start with his night sleep or his day ones. He has started sleeping really well during the day now even with the dummy. I wrap him during the day and give him his dummy and he will have at least an hour for his first sleep and up to 2 1/2 hrs for his afternoon sleep which he has never done before. Should I leave his day sleeps and just go with the night sleep?

Thanks.

[nemosmum]

Hi channy,

I think you mentioned this before anyway but just thought I'd add it again. Try one thing at a time eg unwrapping or controlled crying or no dummy. I think you'll just wind up going crazy trying all at once LOL :eek:
Your bubs still pretty young so I would (if it was me) go for the unwrapping first, to help settle him put his wrap up next to his cheek and pat him to sleep. You could do this for both day and night sleeps. Once he has that down pat you could try eliminating the dummy, still offer wrap and pat for comfort, or if you choose to try the controlled crying instead of patting. Just keep trying until something works LOL :p I know with DS I tried everything- patting, singing, music,controlled crying,
sleep clinic etc. Eventually things work out, I know that doesnt help you now, right :rolleyes:

Good luck and keep us posted :)