Advice please! Short naps in 7 month old - can't resettle HELP!

[lulululu]

Please give me some advice for how to resettle my 7 month old son. I've read Elizabeth pantley and love the ideas. I won't let him cry it out so don't bother suggesting that, thanks.
The problem is he goes down for his nap but wakes soon after and takes AGES to resettle then wakes again a lttle while later. Sometimes I just CANT get him back to sleep.
Today for example; went down for morning nap. Woke after about 5-10 minutes. Tried to resettle. No luck. Then went down for afternoon nap. Woke after 40 minutes (longer than usual - perhaps due to lack of morning nap). Took 30 minutes to resettle by feeding and rocking, then slept for 8 minutes. Took 15 minutes to resettle (feed and rock again) then slept about 10 minutes. Couldn't resettle that time. He's smiling and not tired looking but I want him to nap for longer as Pantley suggests this is the key to sleeping better at night.
Pantley suggests for frequent wakers / short nappers to intercept the waking by immediately going and helping resettle and says after one or two weeks they should nap longer. Admittedly it's only been a few days but I don't feel I'm having any success.
Pantley suggests sitting outside the door and going in as soon as they make noise. I tried that but he was already on his knees and wide awake so I've tried staying IN the room and this worked better ( took thirty minutes to resettle rather than 70 minutes) but he still doesn't stay asleep.
I've tried the pram. Walked for two and a half hours but he still woke after 30 minutes and didn't resettle.
I think he might sleep longer in the baby bjorn but he's about 10 kg and it is very hard on my back carrying him even for short periods.
I've tried co-sleeping. It kinda works but I don't want to have to nap with him every day. What can I do?

[purplecat]

Have you tried a little more awake time between naps? Like 20 to 30 mins?

How many naps per day? Mine dropped to 2 naps around 6 months.

I could never resettle for day naps I'd just get her up for awake time and put her to sleep again in 2 to 3hrs time. We rocked and patted to sleep in cot til she learned to settle herself with no crying

hth

[lulululu]

No I've not tried that. So if he wakes after 10 or 20 minutes you reckon I get him up for half an hour then try again?
I try for two naps a day. About 9/10 am and 1/2pm. Occasionally he has a third nap about 5pm, especially if he hasn't had much in the day.

[trishalishous]

subscribing, will reply 2nite

[4intheBed]

How long has it been going for?

My daughter did a similar thing for a few months, and then she had 4 teeth break through. I wsa getting desperate and thought that it was her or something I was doing wrong. Now she is 2 and she still seems to do it for a month or so before a tooth comes through... Molars just came through the other day so hopefully I will get a break for a while.

I laid with her every nap time while it was happened, we still breastfeed, so I gave her lots of milk which comforted her and sometimes put her back to sleep.


Hope it gets better for you soon.

My only advice is to go with the flow, nothing lasts forever.

[lulululu]

It's been essentially his whole life, although it changes every day. Some days he'll sleep in the pram. Some days he won't. Some days he'll sleep in his cot. Some days he won't. Some days he'll sleep in the car. Most of the time he just cries in the car, no matter how long the drive. He'll usually fall asleep in the baby bjorn but he's so heavy now I can't keep carrying him so I put him in the cot. Usually he'll sleep if we co-sleep but he wakes a lot and that works ok in the afternoon when the toddler is asleep but I can't do it in the morning - plus i feel like I can never do anything if I need to stay with him for his naps so it's not a long term solution.
I hear you about "go with the flow" and I know they're only little for a little while, but I've been sleep deprived for 7 months and I feel like I spend all day trying to get him to sleep, often with little success. I feel frustrated and desperate for a solution.

[Bubbles10]

What happens if you don't try to get him to sleep and just let him stay up?

I found it a relief when i stopped trying to get my LO to sleep, and just let her go until she is ready for sleep. I don't get much of a break but it is better than spending hours getting frustrated for her to have a few minutes of sleep.

[nerdgirl99]

:iagree:

DD is 6 months and will only ever sleep 20-30 minutes, 3 times a day. I don't bother resettling her and she stays up about 2 - 3 hours in between naps. She sleeps all night despite her catnaps.

I think some bubs just don't read the book and need less sleep?

[lulululu]

When he has a good couple of naps he sleeps well at night. When he doesn't nap (like today) he wakes a lot at night. He's already been up twice tonight and it's only 11pm. He can go all night waking every couple of hours.

[lulululu]

ECM I think he IS one of those wakeful babies. Everyday I'm tempted not to bother trying to get him to nap. It's so frustrating to work at getting him down for an hour only to have him wake after 10 minutes. But if he doesn't nap he gets beside himself. He doesn't sleep at night and come late afternoon he gets so agitated. I'm trying to help with dinner and a toddler and he just cries unless I hold him. And as I mentioned before he's so heavy.

[lulululu]

God I've just read over my posts and I sound like such a whinger!

[Laksa]

Both of my boys were cat nappers until they dropped to two regular sleeps at around 7mo.

You don't sound like a whinger! Just a tired mama :)

[nerdgirl99]

God I've just read over my posts and I sound like such a whinger!

You're definitely not a whinger! You are just trying to do what's best for your bub (unfortunately he isn't cooperating... they rarely do) and just asking for a helping hand. After all that's what BubHub is about isn't it!?

[lulululu]

Thanks guys. It's just a bad night tonight. I'm feeling a bit fragile and i've lost count of how many times I've been up so far - I think it's four or five. So to answer Bubbles10's question: THIS is what happens when he doesn't nap. He's up every 2 hours. I've fed him three or four times and rocked him back to sleep once.
When he naps he might wake once between bedtime and dawn.
So as tempted as I am during the day to just give up and let him not nap or have tiny naps, once the night comes I always regret it if I haven't persisted.
The real problem is, sometimes I persist for hours and hours and I still can't get him to sleep. Or more often can get him to sleep but he won't stay asleep.

[purplecat]

Lulu what I meant by more awake time is awake time between sleeps before attempting to get him to sleep in the first place. For example if he wakes at 7am and his first sleep is 9am, try leaving him up until 930am before you try to get him down (2.5hrs between sleeps instaed of 2). I wwas just thinking if he wakes after 10 mins maybe he wasn't tired enough in the first place?

Other things to check - is he too hot or too cold? Is te room dark (I strung up an old doona over her curtain to make it darker)? Is it too noisy (I played music in her room when the big kids were home although don't need to do that now). Does he have a comforter like a bear or a blanket that he associates with sleep (this one helped is alot at this age)? Do you have a consistent bedtime 'routine' (eg put sleep bag on, close curtains together, say 'it's sleep timee now, nite nite etc). These were all things that helped when we went through same

and yea if my LO has poor day sleeps she has poor night sleeps too. She occassionally sleeps through now (nearly 12 months) but 3 wakeups is not unusual. She is now a BRILLIANT day sleeper I cam put her down wall out and she rolls over and goes to sleep. It took a few weeks work to get there though so hang in there!!! It will get better.

Is it possible he has teeth moving about? My lo always sleeps poorly when the teeth are moving, up to a few weeks before they pop through

[lulululu]

Ah! I get you now purplecat! I've left him up til 10.30 today so fingers crossed that helps.
Noise is an issue sometimes with a toddler. We use music to get him to sleep (it's on the monitor but stops after 10 minutes - perhaps I should play something longer).
And yes he's teething. But like I said, he was like this before too. The temperature is fine. The blinds are shut. He has a routine and a "sleep dog" as per Pantleys advice.
You mention "a few weeks work to get her there". Can you tell me more? What did you actually do?

[purplecat]

ok so this is what we did

I cleared the calendar for 2 weeks so I could stay home and work on her day sleeps. Her sleeping was all over the shop, different times, in the car, in the pram etc. I was also feeding her until she fell asleep and then she would wake up 10 minutes later not knowing where the heck she was. I needed some consistency and a 'pattern'. I hesitate to use the word routine because babies need some flexibility as do we, but I did try to follow a consistent pattern for her.

I worked out her optimum 'awake time' - I think from memory at about that age it was 2hrs? or maybe 2.5. 10 minutes before that time I started her go to sleep routine. For us it was into sleep bag, close curtain, get the sleep bear (a bear head on a blanket which she loved as she could rub the blanket all over her face; we found a bear just didnt cut the mustard), turn on the music. Then, I'd put her in the cot and rock her belly and sing a song until she fell asleep. She did cry in the beginning, but I was there with her. the first day it took about 40 minutes but she fell asleep. When she woke up, no matter how long she slept, I made a big fuss of her and got her up 'arent you a clever baby having a sleep! Hello!!! lets go play!!!'. I would give her a feed on waking up. If I thought she needed an extra feed before her next sleep I'd sneak one in during her up time and not close to her bed time.

Then, as she got quicker at falling to sleep (after about 4 or 5 days she was going to sleep in about 5 mintues), I reduced my involvement. First I stopped the singing and just rocked her belly. The I stopped rocking her belly and just sat there. Then I just sat there but left the room before she fell asleep. After a couple of weeks I could put her in her cot, say goodnight and walk out. She would occassionally cry but for less than 5 minutes; If I thought she sounded too distressed I would go back in and rock/sing her to sleep. Now she just rolls to her side and shuts her eyes and quietly falls asleep.

for her second sleep I'd make sure she was up by about 4pm (so going down around 3pm at latest). That way she had 3 hours awake time before her final bed time of 7pm and was good and tired!

I also started her going to bed in the evening routine at 6pm and had her in bed by 7pm come hell or high water. So dinner 5pm, bath 6pm, final milk feed 630pm, book, bed 7pm (same deal to get to sleep as per day sleeps). Her night sleeps started improving too, from waking every 2hrs to only waking 2 or 3 times, and eventually sleeping through.

Another way to do it would be to just pick 2 consistent sleep times eg 930am and 130pm and do the same as above at those times. That can work well too in terms of getting them into a pattern; actually I think I did that for a while because the lengths of her sleeps were so inconsistent it was hard to work out when to put her down next.

it takes a bit of time and commitment but for us it was worth it. It may be harder for you as you have a toddler to entertain too.

She has recently started 3 days of daycare and they are amazed at her going to sleep skills!! they said they just put her in the cot and with the light room and all the hullabaloo of other screaming babies she just rolls over and goes to sleep without a peep :goodvibes: so proud.

hope that helps!!!

[lulululu]

Thanks purplecat. That's very helpful.
Certainly having a toddler complicates the issue, as it's near impossible to "clear the calendar" when the toddler needs to get out to the park etc. I can see it would help a lot if I could stay home and concentrate on the naps for a couple of weeks. I'll have a talk with my partner and see if we can work something out.

[Babycharlieandme]

Hi Lu Lu,

How is your LO sleeping now?

Did NCSS work for you?

[lulululu]

Babycharlieandme,
Thanks for bringing me back to this and reminding me how far we've come. I think sometimes (often really) that he doesnt sleep well but when i read back over this thread i see he has improved enormously.
He sleeps through his naps now most days. Sometimes he wakes once but generally resettles but most days he sleeps soundly for an hour and a half to three hours.
We still have an issue with whether or not he has a morning nap. If he does he takes a while to settle at lunchtime but if not hes generally out in a few minutes.
Nighttime he still wakes, but on average its maybe once or twice a night, as opposed to every hour or two. Sometimes he is difficult to resettle and sometimes he cries for an hour or two, which is heart wrenching. But most of the time a pat on the bum or a rub on the back is all he needs. He wakes at 5am every day though. I occassionally can get him back to sleep but mostly we are up for the day (although trying to be quiet til his brother wakes) from the crack of dawn. I LONG for a sleep in!
I think ncss helped a lot but we also had quite a lot of support from tresillian too. I guess we used a combination of techniques. Tresillians main (only) advice was to stop feeding him to sleep so we did that, although much more gradually than they suggested.

[Babycharlieandme]

Babycharlieandme,
Thanks for bringing me back to this and reminding me how far we've come. I think sometimes (often really) that he doesnt sleep well but when i read back over this thread i see he has improved enormously.
He sleeps through his naps now most days. Sometimes he wakes once but generally resettles but most days he sleeps soundly for an hour and a half to three hours.
We still have an issue with whether or not he has a morning nap. If he does he takes a while to settle at lunchtime but if not hes generally out in a few minutes.
Nighttime he still wakes, but on average its maybe once or twice a night, as opposed to every hour or two. Sometimes he is difficult to resettle and sometimes he cries for an hour or two, which is heart wrenching. But most of the time a pat on the bum or a rub on the back is all he needs. He wakes at 5am every day though. I occassionally can get him back to sleep but mostly we are up for the day (although trying to be quiet til his brother wakes) from the crack of dawn. I LONG for a sleep in!
I think ncss helped a lot but we also had quite a lot of support from tresillian too. I guess we used a combination of techniques. Tresillians main (only) advice was to stop feeding him to sleep so we did that, although much more gradually than they suggested.

Thanks lulu

[captainscaptain]

Sorry if someone else has already said something similar (I don't have time to read all posts) but my son is a single cycle sleeper (30mins) and he doesn't WANT anymore than that. I could waste hours of my day trying to re-settle him and it would be fruitless.

He is nearly 7mo and has 4 to 5 thirty minute naps a day (usually fed to sleep) with wake periods of 2ish hours inbetween. It used to drive me insane but once I accepted it my life became a whole lot easier.

I would however try to re-settle if he woke after 5-10mins like you say your guy does sometimes because this means he hasn't even slept for 1 cycle :(

Every couple of days he desides to have a 2 hour nap which is great but he only does that if he feels the need. And at night he sleeps from about 6.30pm until 5.30am. I wake him up for 1 feed around 2am so that I don't get engorged lol.