Start prep a year early?

[fludo]

My DD is 2 and a half and has known all her alphabet for about 4 months (upper and lower case as well as knowing all their sounds and singing the alphabet song). She knows about 12 shapes, all her colours, numbers 1-10, is starting to learn numbers to 100. She can also read some music notation and play 1 song on the piano. I don't know if she's "gifted" but she's definitely bright and will be ahead of many other kids when she does start school.

She's born in July (we're in Brisbane) so she just misses the cut off by 14 days which means she'll be one of the oldest in her year so won't start prep until she's 5 and a half. 3 questions:

1) Is it possible to start prep a year early?
2) Would that be a good idea or not? No matter when she starts she'll already be ahead of most of the other kids, at least in literacy and numeracy, so is there an advantage to starting earlier or later? Would she get more out of an extra year at home where I can teach her?
3) Also, her brother is 2 years younger so would it be weird for them to be 2 years apart in age, but 3 years apart in school?

I know social issues are a big factor in knowing when to start school. She doesn't go to any daycare or anything yet. If I wanted her to start prep early, should I be getting her into a daycare/kindy program? C and K said they won't take them the year early because they're in too high demand or something (no extra places available). Is daycare just "daycare" or do they actually learn stuff?

Socially she's very outgoing and talks to everyone, but she takes toys off other kids and throws tantrums and wants her own way all the time.

Sorry this is long. I have no idea how to go about any of this. thanks!

[RmumR]

daycare is run the same as pre- school its just for extended hours to cater for working parents etc. usually cost more cause its for longer hours.

speak to the school you are wanting to send her to, principal should be able to point you in the right direction or contact the education department.

dont worry about it too much she is only 2 so still has a few years before school either way.

[Thee]

My parents started me in prep at 4.5 as my birthday is in August. When it came time for high school, the high school wouldn't accept me as i was too young. They said that was their ruling as they believed that children turning 12 in year 7 may not be mature enough to handle the pressures of high school. We could have fought it if we wanted to but it would have been hard. I don't think i was disadvantaged at all, in fact the extra year of grade 6 ensured i went into an accelerated learning program in high school.

Just something else to think about

[cindye]

Hi Fludo :wave:

I would be surprised if you could find a school that would allow your DD to start prep a year earlier. My brother was looking into it for my niece (she's at a private school in Brisbane) and they wouldn't let her, despite being incredible advanced for her age. In the state school system I think the age cut offs are fairly rigid too.

Do you have her name down for enrollment anywhere? It might be a good idea to talk to particular schools about their policies and if they are willing to make allowances.

Or you could look at multi-age schools where classrooms are made up of multiple year levels so she can advance at her own pace.

My brother skipped a year of high school. I think this is preferable to starting early. In high school now, students can take on extra subjects that give them credit in University. There are lots of possibilities later down the track.

My DD's are born in consecutive years (one in May, the other in December) and will be 2 years apart in school. With the mid year cut offs, lots of siblings will be in the same situation.

Your DD will be eligible to go to kindy program the year before she starts prep. They are generally 5 days a fortnight and run from about 9am to 2.30pm. Currently there are lots of new kindergartens are being built in QLD which will be opening in the next couple of years. You *may* be able to get your DD in for a couple of days a week when she turns 3 if there are vacancies.

Of course, there are child care centres. Some run kindy programs, so it would always be an option to send her to one a couple of days a week before she starts kindy proper.

Until then, keep her busy at home - she can't get any better than 1:1 learning with her mama!

HTH

[SassyMummy]

You'll be lucky to find a school that allows this in Qld - it's near impossible.

My daughter was more than ready for school last year, but she was born on July 25 and wasn't accepted to start last year rather than this (at 5.5).

They also focus a LOT more on socialising than on academic matters... so even if your child is a genius, they may not be ready for the social aspects of it all... which I think may be why they often don't allow early entries.

[Mahjong]

I agree with Sassy, you'll find it very difficult in QLD. A friend of mine, her DD missed the cut off by a couple of weeks and was more than ready to start in 2009, but she had to start 2010 instead. She was bored!

[jaq]

I would strongly suggest you look into a Montessori school (NOT daycare) for her, as this is one way in which she MAY be able to start prep early, or skip prep. If the principal and teacher at the school determines your child is developmentally ready - ie socially and emotionally at the right stage, as well as needing the intellectually stimulation, Montessori is generally more willing to skip a year because by the time they GET to prep, they've already had two years in a class room. (They start as a 3 year old either immediately after their third birthday, in some places, or at the beginning of the year after they turn 3 (ie 3.5 etc) in others.

Montessori schools have a combined 3-5yo classroom, and EVERY child in that room (gifted or otherwise) works at whatever level they are capable of. Tasks are chosen by the child, and are introduced to a child whenever they show interest or aptitude. If they are reading at 3, they get given prep level reading at 3. If they want to do Year 2 maths in prep, they are given the extension they need. The guiding spirit behind Montessori is "follow the child" and it is an absolute gift for those whose children fall outside the usual chronological norms. (Whether they are gifted or have other special needs.)

I have heard that grade skipping is problematic when a child reaches high school, in particular, and I am quite concerned about that for my daughter, as we might be looking at a second skip later in her schooling as well. But frankly, I'd rather my daughter be happy and stimulated and LOVE going to school than be bored and miserable even before she gets to high school. We'll just have to work harder finding a school for her, I figure.

Not sure where you are in Brisbane/Queensland, but the Montessori school at Fig Tree Pocket is supposed to be VERY good, though I've only heard that on the Montessori grapevine and have no first hand experience to offer.'

Good luck with your decisions!

[fludo]

Thank you for all the wonderful advice. We are only 20 mins from Fig Tree Pocket so will look into Montessori - don't know why I didn't think of that! Do you know if she went to Montessori would it be possible to start prep early or skip prep but at a normal state school or would she have to stay at Montessori?

I definitely think she needs to do more than stay home with me for the next 2 years though - it's 2 years before she can even go to c&k!

I've also realised through this thread that no matter when she starts prep she will be ahead academically and I guess classes always kids with mixed abilities and that's just how it is. I guess the important thing is that wherever she is she is being challenged and given work at her level even if other kids are doing easier work.

[elleysmagic]

I am a Qld early years teacher in the state system and can tell you that I've not come across a child who started prep early (but it may be possible) though I've met/taught a few kids who when old enough to start prep, skipped prep and went straight to year 1. A child in the class next to me last year did this and there were some adjustment issues along the way but in the end I think it was considered a successful decision. I believe he had to undertake testing, both social/emotional and academic prior to this year to determine that he was suitable for such a move. I would talk to the principal of your local school a bit closer to the time to see what their views/policy is on the matter.

[fludo]

ok, Montessori is out - WAAAAYYYYY toooo $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!:eek:

[sweetseven]

I know of someone that got into school a year early. He was apparently one of only two accepted in Queensland that year. His parents said it cost them $5000 in private assessments for him to be accepted. Sometime later (around year 4 or 5) he received some Special Ed support due to a diagnosis (autism perhaps but I am unsure, I had lost contact with the family at that point).

This was all before prep came in. When prep was being introduced I was speaking with some of the year 1 teachers and they were talking about the education department being more strict about insisting that children start school in their correct year.

I have heard a story (that could be an old wives tale) of twins born one minute before and one minute after midnight, resulting in one being in time for the cutoff to start school and the other being outside it. Apparently it took three months worth of redtape before the education department allowed the second twin to start school a year early so that they both were in the same grade. This was also supposed to have occured back when the cutoff was 30 December, so before prep was introduced.

============

It is my understanding that C&K will take children 6 months early if they have spaces available. I was told that my child with an October birthday could start after easter if there was room. Therefore I suggest you give the C&K centres a call midyear, just in case one has a vacancy (unlikely I realise but possible).

My Miss9 was advanced accademically. Before starting C&K pre-prep, she could read and type, count, and do basic math. She couldn't write, draw, or even colour between the lines. Once attending pre-prep she didn't have the time to do all the activities she had previously done with me, and her reading deteriorated. She loved pre-prep, enjoyed the friendships, learnt how to draw and write her name (barely legibly, but she did it). In prep, they still didn't return to reading, though her drawing and writing improved. Then in year 1 they started reading and I discovered how much she had lost. It took until midway through year 1 before she returned to the reading level she had prior to pre-prep. I do not regret sending her to C&K at all. I think the early reading was great for her and probably enabled her to pick it up faster again once it was being taught to her. She also really enjoyed pre-prep. She is now a high achieving, studious year 5 student.

[veve]

yup .. what sassy said ...

Jack was academically ready last year - easily ... but socially he wasn't (never had daycare ... and we needed just that little bit of extra time to get him ready for peer negotiation ... (conflict resolution is BIG in prep... lots of kids to work with .. and you're not going to like everyone).

By all means ASK at local schools what the stance is, but I dont know that you will have any luck.

Its hard - Jack was similar at a young age, knew all his numbers, shapes, colours, (couldn't play music, but then we never tried to teach him that either) .. he is still a VERY smart kid in class (some kids seriously start prep not knowing what their name starts with, some cant even recognise their own name ... where as Jack could write his before he started prep) .. but he LIKES being smart in class ..

Let us know how you go - would love to hear!

[sweetseven]

I'm afraid it is not all roses. I'll also mention my Miss11. She didn't read significantly early. It was only when her younger (by two years) sister started reading that she showed interest and learnt to read. However from two weeks into prep she has complained that school is too easy. I've tried through the years to talk to her teachers about extension work but nothing eventuated. Then by year four, she felt the work was beneath her and stopped doing it. (Of course the teachers wouldn't provide extension work now, since she wasn't even doing the normal work.) Year 6 was breaking point, and she developed anxiety and had to take time off school. She has now returned to year 7 but is just going through the motions and has really given up on school.

In hindsight I'm wishing I had gotten her into something like Monteressi when she would've lapped it up. But now, she has given up on school altogether and it would be a complete waste of time. She is now seeing Child Youth and Mental Health, and hopefully something can be done. But I now have a child that always had so much potential and I had previously expected to excell in whatever path she chose to follow, but instead has given up and not willing to try anything.

[jaq]

Fludo,

I should have mentioned about the $$$$. Yes, it is horrifically expensive. (I paid two lots of school fees last week... serious OUCH.) But the way we look at it is that our children will be set up to go whereever they need to for highschool, and hopefully, it won't be private. (I believe in public education, but just wish it could be Montessori!) A child who loves learning will be an independent learner by the time they reach high school; a child who is disenchanted with the process and frustrated will be wasting their parents' money whatever fancypants high school is chosen.

But it's easy for me to say that because we can afford it. (Just). I know people who have remortgaged their house to pay for Montessori ... that's how important it becomes to you once you have seen how much of a difference it makes to your child.


I've also realised through this thread that no matter when she starts prep she will be ahead academically and I guess classes always kids with mixed abilities and that's just how it is. I guess the important thing is that wherever she is she is being challenged and given work at her level even if other kids are doing easier work.

This is very, very true. In fact, one of the key social skills for advanced kids (gifted or otherwise) to learn is to get used to being a bit different, and that they won't often find kindred spirits the way other kids do. Sounds a bit sad, but its a reality of being the "smart one" or for a lot of kids who think differently to the norm. They can learn to handle it well, and use their smarts to help them make friends/get on with other kids, or they can withdraw into themselves and never learn to relate to the wider world. I do a lot of work with DD1 to explain to her that just like people are tall/thin/short/plump/white/black/ etc, that not everyone thinks the same way and that there are different types of smart, and that just because someone doesn't read/do maths/write (whatever) as well as you, doesn't make them ''dumb" or whatever. Kids like this need a LOT of help to accept difference, because otherwise, they'll never really learn to fit in. (Or accept not fitting in well.)

Teaching them to appreciate each other for what they CAN do (art, ride a bike well, know lots about gardening, whatever) is a huge breakthrough.

The other BIG issue that I have to deal with a lot is persistence. Some kids who learn stuff easily find it difficult to stick with a task to get better. DD1 isn't keen on doing something, or trying to learn something new that she has never tried before, because she likes to be GOOD, or the BEST, or whatever. Encouraging them to do things that take time and effort to perfect, like a musical instrument, or precision arts like classical ballet, are really good towards that goal.

[mim1]

I definitely think she needs to do more than stay home with me for the next 2 years though - it's 2 years before she can even go to c&k!

Why? I understand that you're concerned that she'll be 5.5 when she starts school, but if you were in Victoria where the cut off is April 1st, it wouldn't be an issue, it would be a 100% definite no. Most children in Victoria are 5 a long time before starting school and many are 6 or almost so. My ds will be considered young when he starts school at 5 years 2 weeks of age. He's one of the youngest in his Kindergarten class this year (he starts Prep next year).

I recall when we realised my ds was 'different' and very advanced at age 2.5 and I freaked out. I couldn't imagine vaguely keeping up with him and keeping him entertained and stimulated intellectually at home until he started kinder and then school. The thought of even trying was scary. He wasn't interested in toys for children aged 2, more interested in toys for 4 year olds. What was he going to be like at age 4 then we said??!! Well, you know what, it's not that bad, in fact it's great. He loves complex puzzles, plays all sorts of board games many of which are intended for older children and he talks like an adult. We've got used to parenting him with his advanced language and spatial skills, it's just normal for us. Yes, he has sudden growth spurts in his brain function and we have little freak outs along the way (he took a huge leap in his reading in the last few weeks after starting kindergarten for example), but eventually we catch up with him & relax again.

Children that are gifted often need an extra boost in social skills (but please don't send your dd to childcare just for this - that's not what I mean) and most importantly in self esteem. Having a supportive family close by with plenty of time with mum/dad/siblings/etc makes the world of difference. There's no rush to start formal schooling. Without formal schooling you can take holidays when you want, go to the zoo when you want, and let your child drop their afternoon nap/rest/etc when they want. My ds still talks about our holidays from last year - 9 months after one of them.

Remember that there are multiple areas of development including - social, emotional, physical & intellectual. Just cause your child is advanced intellectually does not mean all other areas are advanced too ... relax and plan for her to start school at age 5.5.

I hope I make sense ... pregnancy is making my brain not function too well at the moment. :rolleyes:

[fludo]

Thanks for all the replies. I realise now the only reason I thought she should start school early was because of her early learning. I was watching her at swimming the other day and the other 2 girls are the same age (all born within 2 weeks) and are much bigger than her but have not had lessons for as long but they can swim much better than she can. Being small, it's probably best she not start a year early because she's already smaller than most other kids her age.

Also, I should think of it as a blessing to have more time with her at home - more time to teach her things and be a good influence! haha. My only concern is with getting her a bit more socialised, learning to play with other children, etc. We were at my mothers group the other day, which we just started going to a few weeks ago, and both weeks she threw a tantrum because in the sing along they didn't sing the songs she wanted or when doing Old McDonald they did the animals in a different order than what we do at home - everything has to be just so with her!

[One of THOSE mums!]

I think it is fantastic that you want to encourage your Dd to develop academically, and socially. But I feel my experience may add to the discussion.

I started prep early. Very early. I was like your Dd, I had always been given lots of encouragement to learn by family. Did many activities that helped my social development too.

My concern is for your Dd when she gets older. When I finished school I was only 16. I didn't turn 17 till April of my first year of uni. The first year out in the big world is huge. I had to move away from my family and survive in my own, and struggle through first year uni also.
I survived, but it was extremely tough. I lacked some maturity that only comes with age. It was also hard to build friendships outside of the uni and work environment as I couldn't drive, or go to many venues.

Savour the time you can spend with your Dd. Your time with her will build stronger life skills that she will put into good use later in her life.

There are so many activities that cater for bright young kids. Both before she starts school and also for her once she is at school. (kudos maths etc).

She sounds like an amazing little girl and you should be so proud!

[KatiesMum]

My kid sounds pretty similar to yours Fludo.

She is academically advanced .... but physically a smaller child, and not a physically able or adventurous child at all.

She did start prep early as she is a May baby (our cutoff is 30 june) ... and is the youngest in her class. She is also easily the most advanced in her class.

Throughout Kindy (2 days a week at school) I struggled to get the teacher to give her any actual work ... I ended up teaching her to read and doing additional work with her myself because she was so very ready and WANTING to do so much.

This year, within 3 days the teacher said 'we will need to have a meeting to come up with a program for Katie as she is obviously way ahead'. We had that meeting this week, and have come up with a program that will advance her and keep her stimulated but still within the current class. It will involve a bit of extra work from me .... but I am happy with what they are doing.

They are also doing additional assessments (that are normally done in grade 1 or 2) to determine exactly where she is at in some other areas, and will give her reading, maths etc homework and classwork that is appropriate.

All in all - I am pretty happy with the programs they have in place for kids who are further advanced than the rest. It is a fairly wide range of abilities ....

The social side of it is honestly the most important. Even if the academic ability is so much greater ... they can do programs for that. But if your child is socially and physically not ready - it will put them so much further back by trying to start them too early.

[bellalika]

I'm deferring my little man so he'll be 5 3/4 when starting prep. It's a personal choice. He is very clever and socially outgoing, but as a prep teacher (on leave) I have seen what happens when kids are sent to school too early. I've also seen young preps succeed so I could have gone either way. Jan -April babies have a choice of year in Vic, but they are thinking of pulling the age up to Feb or March in the future.

My suggestion is to get your daughter into a kinder / Childcare if you can financially afford it. Just one day a week. The environment will help set her up from school and make the transition a lot easier for her. Most employ qualified kinder teachers. After a couple of sessions they'll be able to say if they feel she may ready for early enrollment.

I've only ever taught one child who was almost as young as your daughter will be. She was in grade 3 the first time I taught her and grade 6 the second time. There was always an obvious gap between her and her classmates. She was very tall so it wasn't in appearance. In grade 3 she didn't have a lot of friends due to maturity differences. By grade 6 she had a strong circle of friends and had blossomed. She was talking to me about it once (she brought it up) and said she felt like she had to learn how to be a big kid the first time I taught her as well as learning everything else.

Make sure you think ahead too, not just prep. Is she going to be ok not driving, getting a job etc when all of her friends do? What about puberty? 18th birthdays she can't go to because they are in pubs. These seem insignificant but do impact social development in the later years.

There is a lot to consider and generally states put caps on school enrollment ages for a reason. You'll need to ask for special permission from the state and the school etc, your school will guide you on how. The opinion of Childcare / kindy will be taken into consideration.

Hope this helps in some way.

[bellalika]

Should also mention that while the school I work at does prep as a stand alone grade, all other grades are composites. We have had a few children that started early but haven't been ready. Along with the parents, a decision has been made to keep them down. We tend to do this in the one/two gap. So, child A does prep with group a. They do grade one with group a, while group b do prep. Child a repeats grade one with group b while still in the same room with group a allowing child to make friends across grades and benefit from both levels of work. They then do grade two with group b. We do ILPs (individual learning plans) for special needs kids - we group gifted kids under this umbrella - involving the teacher, principal and parent in the planning process. That way social, emotional and academic needs are catered for.

[CeeLH]

Can I suggest you look into grade acceleration? My daughter has just skipped Kindy and started Pre Primary (WA).

Early entry was not something I would have considered (think -social skills, confidence, toileting, separation, long days, concentration span, listening skills, coping with other distressed children etc etc etc). Instead she went to a quality daycare 2 days/wk, which separates children into year groups instead of the normal under two over two and also let DD join the group ahead of her age as she was ready to. We also did lots of experiences (museum, zoo, planetarium, camping, sleep overs, playgym, dancing, swimming etc) and joined our state gifted association.

We had DD accessed for giftedness as soon as practical after she turned 4 and then armed with our results (IQ 99.5th percentile) and the blessing of psychologist approached the school where she was due to start kindy and instead she went into Pre-primary.

She is thriving, happy and coping beautifully. Food for thought...

[Blairysmum]

A friends little girl got to take a test and her birthday was October the 1st she failed and didn't get to go but if she had of passed she would have. I think it cost money.. Not 100% though! they are in QLD

My little sister is very smart and her school said they would sign forms so she could go to school this year... She turned 4 on the 2nd of january :o so my mum obviously didn't think she was socially ready she does go to a private pre school in NSW so obviously different then QLD.

I myself started school at age 4 my birthday in the middle of the year, I never found it a huge disadvantage!!