Don't know how to handle him!

[TheUndomesticGoddess]

DS is 4 and a half months old. Up until about 3 weeks ago, he was a great self settler - I would literally put him down awake and he would go to sleep within 5-10 minutes without any crying. In the last 2 weeks especially, there are times when I will put him down for a sleep, and he will bable to himself for about 5-10 minutes, then start whinging, then evertually crying hysterically with real tears.

I usually go in to replace his dummy at some point early on, before he starts really whinging/crying. But when he gets to the point of proper crying, I will go in and replace dummy and pat his bum - this used to work, but now he won't settle with just doing this, in fact, I'm pretty sure my presence in the room gets him more worked up.

Not ALL sleeps are like this though, although the non-self settling is being more frequent. Yesterday, his morning sleep, he went down fine, as he did today. We went out, and he was late for his lunctime sleep, fell asleep in the car for 15 minutes then I put him in cot when we got home but then he babled for a bit then started whinging then the hysterical teary crying started. I eventually took him into my room and lay down with him on my bed, where we BOTH fell asleep LOL (but he still was upset initially even with laying in my bed with me) Then, last night I put him to bed after a bath and book and he was rubbingh his eyes - yet he spent nearly the next hour crying/screaming. I would go in every few mins to replace dummy/pat bum. I would tell him firmly 'It is time to sleep'. Evertually, after some bum patting (an nearly an hour after bedtime) he fell asleep - from pure exhaustion, I think.

I just don't know how to handle him when he is so upset. I'm not used to a crying bub! He never has been like this, ever. I think that, essentially, I am using a controlled crying approach - which I don't really want to do, but I don't know what else to do, as I said he seems to get more worked up when im in there trying to help him to sleep!

Another thing - I'm sooo unsure of how long he should be sleeping now, the 'routine' we were in previous to the last 3 weeks was very predictable, so now im confuised! He will wake/stir around 4:30-6am - sometimes he will be stirring that whole time, but I never feed gim before 6am. My question in regards to that is: how long after feeding him at 6am, should I keep him awake for? As he shows tired signs after about half hour-45mins after bottle, but then if he has been stirring since around 4:30-6am, he has been awake a long time? I'm unsure how long to keep him up, in that instance, before putting him back to bed.

I TRY to keep him up for 2 hours between sleeps during the day, but when he starts showing his tired signs, I will put him to bed pretty much straight away (if we are at home). I don't want to risk him getting overtired, but then even putting him to bed when he shows the signs, he can sometimes get hysterical after 10 mins in cot. And he doesnt have a 'set' bedtime - it's anywhere between 5:30-6:30pm. His bedtime depends on what time he napped during the day (as it changes slightly each day). I'm so confused and I'd REALLY appreciate replies with advice!!!!!!

I know it is prob a pahse, and he MAY be teething (not sure?) but in the meantime, I need a better solution to him settling when he gets like this. Some days and nights he is perfectly fine and capable of getting himself to sleep. It's just some days he can't/won't now. HELP!:eek:

[TheUndomesticGoddess]

Really? 32 sticky beaks, but no one responds? LOL!!
I REALLY need some advice, anything, as I may of tried it, or i may not have tried it..so many mummy's out there that have prob been through same thing, but no one wants to share their secret to helping bubs sleep!!

[GirlsRock]

Ooh now I feel bad for reading and not having any advice for you. Thought I would post anyway just to say I hope it gets better sometime soon.

[Hannahly]

He sounds as though he has figured out that he doesn't 'have to go to sleep' and is protesting. Maybe he just needs a few days of some re-self settling techniques, but tricky age. Could be stacks of reasons (teeth/hunger/growth spurt/more alert now).

Sorry im not much help either... It's not for trying to keep techniques secret (for what it's worth i used save our sleep as a guide not gospel and it worked for my kids) it's just all kids and families have different needs and desires and ways

[Nicky2006]

hmmm I don't really want to give an advice, its so difficult because I have a completely different approach. I wonder if you stress yourself too much by establishing a schedule. But then again I don't believe in scheduling babies but just go with the flow and the instinct. My heart jumped when I read you fell asleep with him!! And why not! Maybe he is currently in cuddly mood, or teething or having a growth spurt or whatever. I think with cuddles you know they can't do damage and tbh I would pick him up before he gets the freaky cry. I always think maybe mine is sore somewhere I mean we are never top fit either and how hard it would be then if someone would keep on coming and going for a quick talk and go iykwim. Sorry difficult to describe and even more difficult to not get involved in a cc vs attachment parenting discussion lol...

[TheUndomesticGoddess]

this is my issue - I DON'T want to use the controlled crying method! But, I have no idea how to help him settle anymore. I seem to make him worse by being in the room with him trying to help him. So, I end up letting him cry for a couple mins each time before going in to try resettle again. I'm really confused HOW to settle him. I dont want to be picking him up all the time, and him getting used to that. I just dont know what to do with him anymore when he gets like this. I'm by myself, so when he gets hysterical, Its hard to walk away to try calm myself down, as at times him being so upset makes ME want to cry! And I don't have someone here with me to help me with him so I can take a breather for 5 mins before trying again! I just really don't knwo what to do, and I need to figure out how to help him re-settle. He CAN do it, he's proved it, I just dont know why now he won't, at times.

[Nicky2006]

I have absolutely been in the same situation I was a single mum, too tired and exhausted to help Ds1 sometimes when he was upset. Where abouts are you? Maybe I can give you some support? Well with Ds2 I have figured out for me that if I pick him up all the time it made him a more content boy in general. He does fall asleep happily cause he trusts that if there I sth I am there. He might really just have changed, needing more physical contact! Do you use a sling? The days ds gets too unsettled I use this to put him asleep. A few days later he is back to normal then.

[Nicky2006]

do you bf? Cause then it might be sth you eat?

[bressar]

Virgomum I'll be brief cos I'm on my ph, my DD is 4.5 mths old and I could of written the first 4 paragraphs myself...mine doesn't have a dummy tho. Wot the hell is going on lol?? I've resorted to breastfeeding to sleep at the moment...i don't control cry but like u said she gets more upset if I'm in her room arghh
no advice for you I'm afraid but fingers x for us both it is an age thing that will pass!!!
Also I put my bub down straight after a feed if it's like 5-6am..was keeping her awake for 2 hrs between naps but I think it's too long for her
i went and borrowed Elizabeth Pantleys No cry sleep solution from the library - it's helped a little
good luck xx

[TheUndomesticGoddess]

do you bf? Cause then it might be sth you eat?

No, I don't breastfeed anymore.

[bressar]

Oh also Ive found laying on the floor next to her cot where she can't see me and sshhhhhing constantly till she settles has worked a few times...still not tear free tho :(

[wannaBamumma]

I could have written your post word for word virgomum!! My little girl is almost 4 months and has always fallen asleep easily! She is not a whiney baby, infact I hardly heard her cry in the first 2 months of her life! In the past few weeks bed has been such a battle and I find myself getting anxious in the time leading up to sleep time because i know I'm going to be spending the next hour rocking, patting, standing up...sitting down.... putting dummy back in.... It just goes on and on! She works herself up so much and just keeps crying even when im rocking her! She will fall asleep in my arms... So ill sit down nd then she will wake up and start screaming again!!! Ive been going crazy and have had no idea on what to do differently as like you, i have tried everything! Today I started a new approach! I call it 'survival' hehe
Basically I just do whatever is needed to get bub asleep as soon as possible before the dreaded 'over-tired crankyness hits! I've found that relaxing my approach to her has relaxed her a little too and today she fell asleep in her bassinet for the first time with no protest in weeks! Mind you, the next 2 sleeps after that had me rocking her to sleep and then DH walking up and down the hallway! Could DS be teething??? I think my little girl is teething already and this is the cause of her unsettled-ness! I known this may sound horrible but I sometimes use the light coming in the windows to make her close her eyes... This only works sometimes but she closes her eyes from the glare from the sun and it's the little thing she needs to remind her to sleep.... I also blow gently into her eyes to have the same effect! Lets just hope his is a phase!!!

[TheUndomesticGoddess]

Virgomum I'll be brief cos I'm on my ph, my DD is 4.5 mths old and I could of written the first 4 paragraphs myself...mine doesn't have a dummy tho. Wot the hell is going on lol?? I've resorted to breastfeeding to sleep at the moment...i don't control cry but like u said she gets more upset if I'm in her room arghh
no advice for you I'm afraid but fingers x for us both it is an age thing that will pass!!!
Also I put my bub down straight after a feed if it's like 5-6am..was keeping her awake for 2 hrs between naps but I think it's too long for her
i went and borrowed Elizabeth Pantleys No cry sleep solution from the library - it's helped a little
good luck xx

thanks - i feel better knowing im not the only one going through this atm! I think i might have to borrow the book from the library...thanks so much fofr your advice, and good luck with you bub too!! :hugs:

[trishalishous]

Personally I cuddle/feed DD to sleep when she needs it, and we never have tears :)

[TheUndomesticGoddess]

Personally I cuddle/feed DD to sleep when she needs it, and we never have tears :)

I'd do that - if he would let me! He used to fall asleep feeding, everytime, but doesn't anymore. It's like he is so used to going to sleep in his cot now, that he finds it difficult going to sleep anywhere else, so if i tried to cuddle him to sleep, that gets him overtirted, as he wonders what on earth is going on, and why isn't he in bed?!

[Bubbles10]

Can you get him out, take him out of the bedroom, take a walk around the house, yard or block and then take him back to the bedroom and see if he is ready for sleep. It can kinda re-set bub if staying in the bedroom isn't working.

If you are looking for books, check out the "No Cry Sleep Solution"

[Mysurprisebaby]

Google "four month monsters"...it may help. Or the "wonder weeks".

4 and a half months is a really common time to be going through a bad phase, but it will get better!! :hugs:

[AndrewTheEmu]

wow, youve got a few things going on there ;)

First of all I will say 'sleep patterns do change'. DD has gone from being a terrible sleeper, to a blessing, back to a bad sleeper, then an ok sleeper, then a freaking nightmare, back to fairly good :D

Could be a few things going on here;
1. May not be having enough 'quite time' before bed. I cuddle/rock DD in the dark in her room for up to 5 mins before putting her in the cot (awake) singing her bedtime song so she knows Im about to put her down and leave the room.

2. He may not be tired enough - or over tired. If he is talking to himself for a
longtime after you put him down I would say he is not tired enough, but after 10-15mins of talking to himself may be getting overtired. My only solution = cuddle/rocks/quite time before bed to get him sleepy/calm him down

3. Does he sleep in other places regularly? (car, pram, your bed) if so it is possible he is not sure what he is 'supposed' to be doing in his cot. DD ALWAYS sleeps in her cot. UNLESS we are out (in which case she naps in the pram/car) and I only move her to the cot when we get home if im sure she will sleep more (say shes been up for 3-4 hours and just fell asleep 10 mins before we get home) 'Teaching' DD that her cot was for sleeping was the best thing ive ever done.


As for the bedtime sleep i have no advice - DD is a ratbag from 4pm-6pm(bath time) and goes to bed straight after her 640pm bottle (on a full tummy) and sometimes still has a tanty.

DD is the same when it comes to me 'helping' her sleep. Except she is standing now so if i go in there she trys to climb up my arm. As horrible as this sounds, i only go in there if i think she is upset as i know (Most times) I am going to end up having to pick her up and rock her (almost) to sleep which is not a habbit I want to encourage.

At 4.5 months DD was having 2x2hr sleeps during the day and a 30-45min nap in the afternoon. Sleeping 7pm-6/7am overnight. After feeding him at 6am, you should be keeping him up till 8am for his morning nap. If he doesnt last anywhere near this long i recommend you give him his 6am bottle in the dark,in his room and put him straight back to bed. If he is only staying awake for 45mins after that 6am feed he is not finished his 'nighttime' sleep. You could also try feeding him at 430am (lets face it, if he is stirring your probably awake listening to him anyway) and put him straight back to bed and he may sleep for another 2-3 hours *bliss*

I really really love DDs set bedtime but its more for me then it is for her. As long as you have a bedtime ritual, 1 hours difference in bedtimes shouldnt be a problem/set up any bad habbits.

I also REALLY recommend Tizzy Halls routines (not a fan of the timed 'control comforting' though)

Check your PM box ;)

[Electric Boogaloo]

Really? 32 sticky beaks, but no one responds? LOL!!
I REALLY need some advice, anything, as I may of tried it, or i may not have tried it..so many mummy's out there that have prob been through same thing, but no one wants to share their secret to helping bubs sleep!!

:laughing: Sorry virgomum, I was one of the stickybeaks - I often read your posts because our babies are close in age - but I didn't have time to respond or I got distracted or something...:o

Anyhoo, my bubs went through this too (except he hardly ever self-settles!!) - for months we were able to cuddle/rock him to sleep easily and without fail and put him in his bed not to hear from him again until morning most nights. Then he started taking ages to settle and would wake as soon as I moved and cry and not sleep through the night. Unfortunately this has coincided with us having to move him into his own room because he's too big for his bassinette now :freakingout: Suddenly all our 'tricks' that were failsafe, didn't work anymore!!

Things are settling down again now and he's sleeping much better again. Like a PP said, I've just really tried to pay attention to his tired signs and put him to sleep as soon as he seems tired - in whatever way works the best!

I've just read some of the PPs and I agree with wannaBamamma totally!!

Good luck :hugs:

[Kovi]

Hi virgomum :wave:,

Your situation just sounds all too familiar!! Except it happened to my DD when she was ~5.5 months old. She just went from being a great self-settler to screaming the house down at bedtime, and this continued every night for ~1.5 months. She was also using the dummy then, but it was actually causing problems than helping her as she would play with it with her hands, even with her eyes closed, and then cry when she drops it. It was frustrating for me and I'm sure it was for her as well. I, too, was confused about what to do, as on one hand I know she can self-settle and would like her to do this again, but on the other hand by rocking/patting/cuddling her to sleep when she cried I know she won't learn how to self settle again.

You probably don't want to hear this but I did resort to controlled crying as I was at my wit's end. I must admit it did work, at least now she's back to being able to settle herself and falls asleep within 5-10 minutes after being put down awake. However there has also been some nights when she does still whinge after being put down, but overall it has been better. This method has also weaned her off the dummy as well!! She has also been able to self settle when she wakes up during the night, but I think we're facing teething at the moment so she hasn't been able to fall back asleep on her own because of pain.

At 4.5 months we were overseas with DD so her naps were all over the place, but she did have a consistent 2 hr nap everyday in the morning and just catnaps wherever we were in the afternoon.

I guess I don't have advice as such virgomum, but just to share my experience that I'm kind of glad that I did controlled crying as it did work, and at least now I know what to do when she does cry at bedtime. I make sure I focus on the 'controlled' part by going in every 10 minutes to reassure her that mummy and daddy are there and not abandoning her, and that she's only learning to go to sleep on her own. I know not everyone agrees with this method though.

Hang in there, I'm sure he'll be back to being a great self settler in no time!:hugs::fingerscrossed:

[TheUndomesticGoddess]

thanks so much for all the replies - whether it's been advice, or just to let me know i'm not the only one with this happening at the moment - I really appreciate all replies. It has been a big help!

He has been better the last couple of days, although I'm still finding it hard to keep him awake for the 2 hours in the morning, and the last stretch in the arvo, and he is going to bed too early imo, but he is showirng the tired signs, so i put him tio bed when he 'tells' me!!

Guess it'll sort itself out..this pahse wont last forever, and it's all a learning curve for us both! :hyper:

[Hollywood]

Really? 32 sticky beaks, but no one responds? LOL!!
I REALLY need some advice, anything, as I may of tried it, or i may not have tried it..so many mummy's out there that have prob been through same thing, but no one wants to share their secret to helping bubs sleep!!

Sorry, no idea, DS was still breastfed to sleep at that age.

[oneboysofar]

Hey there,

sounds very similar to what happened with my Mr T. He will be five months on Monday. Settled really well then all of a sudden turned into a monster. Also, glad to hear that your bub likes to sleep in bed. Was beginning to think that there was something wrong with me and I was the only one! Took about three weeks to fix. Made a few changes to his routine/life, and think they all helped. Didn't do them all at once, but he now settles within about 10 min, unless tired due to day disruptions due to unavoidable events. These might not all work but hopefully help you or one of your many readers!

- Got rid of the dummy cold turkey. Was awful but only took approx two days. And certainly no more awful for him than having to cry for it to be put back in all the time.
- Dropped the bath in the bedtime routine and moved it to the morning. Not because he didn't like it; I think it was just a bit much in the evening.
- Subsituted bath with 10 min of sitting and talking quietly in bed room with dim lights.
- Bumped up the evening feed, and I mean bumped up. Mr T is breastfed, and I saw that you said you're not any more, but hear me out. I started offering more and more formula after final feed of the day and now he has 300 ml as well as regular BF. Formula tin says to feed 6 month old up to 250 ml, but maybe you have a bigger baby like me? Mr T is very long. He wasn't crying for more food, but he was quite agitated and wriggly until I stared doing this. Now (I think) he is nice and full and relaxed. He doesn't sleep much longer during the night, but he is certainly easier to settle and resttles himself really well now.


Hopefully this helps you or one of the readers! Good luck!

[dancingtren]

not sure if this will work for your bub or not but at a similar age my ds would always become agitated when i was trying to put him down for a sleep, resulting in me having to rock him in his arms while he fought against me until he would eventually relax and go to sleep. turns out i was keeping him up too long and he was overtired. when i started putting him down before i actually saw tired signs, which was when he had only been up 1 1.5 hrs, he would actually be happy to go to bed and be able to self settle. and instead of the 45 min naps he had been having and waking up screaming after, he started sleeping for 2-3 hrs and waking happy. this worked for us :) wish i had figured it out sooner, it took a ph call to ngala to have it brought to my attention!

[Melina]

Try to relax and not be so hard on yourself, I think most mums have been in your position. One minute everything is going great and then they go and change on you! I had the same problem he got more upset if I was in the room, so you just have to persist they will get it in the end. Either stay in the room and ride it out with them or go back in every few minutes increasing the time between visits.

[Mummasprincess]

Someone posted something about The Wonder Weeks thanks so much it really helped and explains my 9 mnth olds behavior..

[Losmad]

Hi
I have had 3 children, the youngest now 11 months and sleeps really well. I have read every book been for day stays for my first 2.
At 3-4 months they tend to wake up and are more alert. No-one told me but you need to teach a baby to sleep. This is one of the best gifts you can give him. It will help you and your baby later down the track.

None of my children slept until 6am until after 12 months. My 11month is still waking at 5am and after some water and a bit of crying 5 mins I give him some formula. It is hard to expect a boy to go longer and each baby is different. Feed him early morning then he will go back to sleep until 7am or thereabouts.

He should be up 1 -1.5 hours between sleeps. They tend to go back to sleep 1 hour or so once they wake up in the morning.
Hope this helpsxx