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View Full Version : Christianity & IVF - do the two go hand-in-hand?



MilkOnTap
08-09-2006, 19:00
I am a Christian and I need some advice from other Christian women out there. I have discussed a few things with my discipleship leader re falling pregnant etc, but I haven't been able to ask her about IVF and whether it is acceptable or not.

I believe that if a person has absolute utmost faith in God, then He would bless them with a child. He knows the desires of our hearts, and is the author and creator of all things - therefore he is the creator of a new life on earth - that is, the life of a new baby to grow within me.

A part of me wants to believe that Christianity isn't showing disrespect or lack of faith; but another part of me says that if I were really willing to wait and let all things happen in Gods time, then He would bless me with a child naturally.

Do you Christian ladies believe that to go through with IVF is to have a lack of faith? Or do you think that it is helping the physical body 'catch up' with the spiritual?

RedPanda
08-09-2006, 19:05
I don't think using IVF is indicative of a lack of faith. I believe God allows advancements such as IVF to occur specifically to help people overcome fertility challenges. Your child will be a Christian, and how can wanting to bring another Christian into the world be bad in God's eyes?
That's the way I view it anyway.:yes:

misskittyfantastico
08-09-2006, 19:19
I'm not sure that being able to conceive a child without assistance has anything to do with the amount of faith one has....

:detective: Pink Lady, you have me pondering!

B-belle
08-09-2006, 19:25
I think God has different plans for everyone. Only you would know if it is the right thing for you or not. Just pray..and God will let you know. If you really think it feels right, go for it.

Imgoingnuts
08-09-2006, 19:45
I firmly believe God gave us doctors and technology for a reason. I have no problem with the concept of IVF. The problem is with unused embryos (either destroyed or used for research). I have heard about where they only take the eggs they are going to implant in one hit so there are none to freeze. All the best with your dreams and efforts for a baby.

Amused
08-09-2006, 20:40
God helps those who help themselves. Good luck!

Lisa&Davey
08-09-2006, 20:44
It all depends on how you look at. Maybe God led someone to discover IVF just so that it could help people in your situation. I was brought up to believe God helps those that helps themselves.

It's like the old story of the man in a boat, lost in the ocean. He prays for God to rescue him. Soon a rescue plane comes but the person waves them off and says 'It's okay God will save me.' Then comes a boat and a helicopter but they all get the same response. Soon the person is crying out to God, 'Why don't you save me?' God says, 'Didn't you see the plane, boat and helicopter I sent?'

Anyway, it's abit off topic but I hope you get the idea. Like someone else has mentioned the main quandry that christians usually have is with the use of embryos. There are ways around that though such as only fertilising the eggs that you will definitely use etc.

Hope that helps:thumbsup: Good luck with the journey ahead.

blessedmummy
08-09-2006, 22:24
yeah, i dont think IVF is bad or anything for a christian, (as long as they use there own eggs and sperm) and God does know the desires of our hearts and he knows the plans that is best for us, ill pray for you if you like? i know God will give you the answers that you need, and He does have the perfect timing too. hope all goes well, may God bless you abundently!

Jeremiah 29:11 For i know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.

Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart.

just thought id put those in for you, i really pray that you will be able to conceive naturally soon. may God bless you!

:)

Alatariel
09-09-2006, 13:08
I'm not christian, but I figure... if god is responsible for everything, then he is responsible for IVF and you should go for it.

It reminds me of a joke/story.

A man is hanging from a cliff. He slipped, and now he is just hanging by his finger tips. Below him, waves crash against enormous sharp rocks. He begins to pray to God to save him. So strong is his faith in God's help, that when a man approaches and offers his hand to help him up, he says 'no, God will save me, I have faith.' The rescuer goes away. The man continues to pray. A few minutes later a boat appears below him. They call up with a microphone - 'let go! we have a net and we will catch you!' The man calls back 'I have faith in God, he will save me!'. The boat leaves and the man, fingers slipping more every second, keeps praying for his Lord to rescue him. A helicopter approaches, and drops a rope. The pilot calls for him to grab on. Again, he refuses. The helicopter leaves, and the mans fingers finally give out and he falls to his death below.
When he gets to heaven, he approaches God and asks "Lord, I had faith in you. Why didnt you reach out and save me?"
The Lord looks at him and says....



..."I sent you a guy, a boat and a helicopter, what else do you want??"

spiritedfamily
09-09-2006, 13:19
Religion teaches us and tells us all sorts of things...they are guides...faith lies in the heart...its your relationship with God and if you feel at peace about IVF, then follow your heart!!

nut
09-09-2006, 13:23
I agree that you should have no problem with using the technology that is available to you. I think that the OP suggestions that you only fertilise the eggs you will implant is an excellent way to ensure that it is an ethical and respectful process.

With your specific situation, with your DH away so much, and the previous history of ectopic babies and the fact you are still young and healthy I think you might have great success with IVF. I remember you from the TTC thread back in January-February and I feel so strongly that you will be a great mamma, and that you deserve to be blessed in this way.:hugs:

If you do have doubts do discuss them with your spiritual leader-person but from my POV you should go for it!!

B-belle
09-09-2006, 13:28
Religion teaches us and tells us all sorts of things...they are guides...faith lies in the heart...its your relationship with God and if you feel at peace about IVF, then follow your heart!!

That is the most beautiful and true thing I have heard all week! Thankyou!:yelclap:

blessedmummy
11-09-2006, 19:04
hmmm good question shezi... havent really thought about that... i spose it wouldnt since if someone couldnt use there own eggs and sperm for some reason, hmmm :detective:

MilkOnTap
15-09-2006, 14:22
After chatting with another woman at my church who is also TTC (3 years now) she also battles the same thoughts - Christianity vs IVF. She seems to think that providing its Gods voice that your hearing when you use IVF, then it is okay.

I am inclined to agree with her (I think). I certainly dont feel that God is telling me to go to IVF yet though, so I'm gonna hold off and continue believing that he knows the desire of my heart to become a mother!

Oh - and about the egg & sperm - I definitely agree that BOTH MUST be yours and your partners... It kind of voids the notion of you BOTH becoming parents otherwise...

Cheekychops
15-09-2006, 14:31
My brother and his DW decided no on that.......but other friends of ours that are christians decided yes for IVF......so it's a very personal choice and as long as you feel comfortable with God about it iykwim it's just something you need to decide on.

I really don't think IVF is having a lack of faith - you can stand in a garage and believe you are a car but you never will be a car.....sometimes things just don't happen......God can make anything happen, but he doesn't always choose to......also IVF doesn't always work for everyone.

Who knows?? If you choose IVF, you may meet someone - nurse, doctor, fellow IVFian and touch their life with God's light iykwim...... we never know the intricate workings of God's plans.......

Hope that's made a bit of sense....

jacquit
06-10-2006, 05:43
Do you think God intended my DH, who is incredibly healthy and fit, to have a very low SC. Do you think God intended me to have had 3 strokes and therefore the need to be closely monitored during pregnancy. Do you think God intended to "bless" His children with complications such as ovarian cysts, edometriosis, poor sperm mobility etc etc etc etc.

Ladies, you need to do some research in to IVF and understand reasons why people need to undergo the process before you make claims on how God and other Christians view it.

God loves us SO much. He doesn't want to cause suffering. Not being able to conceive is suffering. I believe God created the incredibly intelligent scientist who invented IVF. Scientists are Christians too.When you research the process of IVF, it is an absolute miracle - as is natural conception.

Unfortunately, in IVF, many of the fertilised embryos discontinue to grow and so too does that happen naturally without women always knowing - causing miscarriage. Most women are left with only about 3 fetilised embryos used for transfer and most women use those for their children at different periods. Not only that, but many cycles in IVF are unsuccessful, the embryo stops growth in the womb and dies, causing miscarriage. That happens in natural conception too.

You know, IVF and Christianity is a tough one and when looked in too deeply it does cause the Christian to question their faith. BUT, if looking at it as a gift from God, a miracle, an ease to suffering, then rejoice in the Lord for your future child/ children and the opportunity to undergo and watch closely the incredibly miracle of conception and and how incredible God is for what he has created.

As you have probably guessed, i am a christian undergoing IVF and every day i thank God for the opportunity even though it is incredible hard! I thank him for the child he has waiting for us. I thank him for giving us hope to overcome illness / sperm complications etcetc. God is good and only wants the best for his created children. Why would he want to deny his followers the desires of their hearts?

I also see IVF as another chapter of your ever changing testimony to God. your journeys, no matter how difficult they are, contribute to your testimony and your future help of others experiencing same / similar problems.

I know I've rambled, hope I have made some sense.

jacquit
06-10-2006, 10:51
One more thing.....

With the embryos you don't use, couples can take them away with them (normally the clinic will dispose of them) and hold a "ceremony" of some sort, bury them and then perhaps plant a tree. like the maori people do with the placenta. (I'm a kiwi by the way that's how I know this).

That's one way to overcome the loss of an embryo and committ it/ them to God.

Hope this info is a bit helpful. and perhaps check out the IVF forum and get to know a bit about the women undergoing IVF and the hardships they endure.

FOURtunate
06-10-2006, 10:59
I have just devoted 5 months of my life to donating my eggs to a dear couple who have been TTC for 9 years.

I endured countless internal ultrasounds, blood tests every second day, took The Pill for 3 weeks, injected myself for nearly 4 weeks, and finally two days ago I produced 18 eggs for them. The procedure was horribly painful, there was a slight complication and I still resting today 50 hours later.

Did I go against God's will? Are the amazing Doctors, Nurses and Scientists who produce miracles everyday doing an evil act? Are these much longed for babies any less loved because they were born unaturally, or against the God's intent?

Please enlighten me on this subject as I am confused about what God created, and what he did not? I was under the impression that God created science.

I guess the next questions are -

Do you think it's against God's will to undergo chemotherapy for cancer? Give your child Antibiotics for Meningococcal? Have a Caesarean when a Pregnant Mother is bleeding to death?

Briannabear
06-10-2006, 11:22
God loves us SO much. He doesn't want to cause suffering. Not being able to conceive is suffering. I believe God created the incredibly intelligent scientist who invented IVF. Scientists are Christians too.When you research the process of IVF, it is an absolute miracle - as is natural conception.

Well said! I agree 100%. Im a Christian and I believe that IVF is wonderful because it enriches peoples lives with the gift of life. :yelclap:

jess_live_die
06-10-2006, 11:25
i believe that god gave us the gift to have children to brighten our world up and i dnt think ivf will go agast it ive know alot of christan that do IVF and are happy they did.

jacquit
06-10-2006, 11:30
Fourtunate: That was exactly my next question too.......

I think that donating your eggs is a truly amazing. SO loving.

And Jess - live - Die / Briannabear: Your words are very encouraging to me. thanks

samsara
15-10-2006, 18:52
I'm a christian doing IVF and so far no luck :gloomy: but I don't see a problem with doing IVF. Unfortunately, after Adam and Eve sinned, into the world came death and disease and our bodies have become a poor shadow of all God intended them to be. I believe though that God has given us great Doctors and scientists to help us when we are sick or TTC. The only thing the bible does say is that life starts at conception and so whether that is in a petri dish or in the womb, in God's eyes, it is still a life. I know of another Christian lady who used IVF and had 8 embryos. She fell pregnant with either twins or triplets but anyhow, didn't really want more children yet knew that she couldn't destroy the other embryos. She had them implanted after giving birth to the first successful pregnancy, one at a time but none of them took. She honoured God and in return He didn't give her more than she could handle. Extra Embryos can also be donated to couples unable to conceive themselves. Keep close to God and He will lead you.
S

Yasmeena
19-10-2006, 22:55
Some Christians have other ideas about Christianity and IVF

A Possibility of Idolatry

And for the Christian there is an even deeper challenge to face. If your desire for a child is so great that nothing is allowed to stand in the way of it, then you have exalted that desire above God.

"Give me a child or I die" is a fundamentally godless attitude. It is the same as to say, "My whole good is wrapped up in my having a child. My life has no meaning, and there can be for me no happiness without one." But when we say that, we have exalted the wanted child to the place in our affections only God may rightly enjoy. Our whole good is wrapped up in God and His will for us, not in our own notions of what is good for us. "You shall love the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve." But when we will do anything to have a child, that is not what we are doing; we are loving the wanted child above all things else, and serving only our need of him (or her).

I do not say this unfeelingly. I could weep for some whom I know even while I say it. But being a real Christian ... taking God and faith in Him seriously ... being radically obedient from the heart, means coming to terms with truth at levels as deep as this. At these levels too, the only way to give God a right obedience may be to accept suffering and loss of the most extreme kind. The story of Abraham having to offer up his only son Isaac is there in the Bible to teach us exactly that, at even the most heart-wrenching, grievous level.

I say again, when we take a deliberate hand in the process we bring in a whole new dimension of responsibility. Our choices must be faith-choices, and we must accept responsibility for them, as well as for all that follows from them.

Couldn't you just pray for a baby?


The Bible way to resolve the problem of infertility was to pray, as Hannah the mother of Samuel did, as Elizabeth the mother of John the Baptist did, and many others. And we must understand why. It is not because prayer is to be preferred to medicine. The reason Bible people prayed about their infertility is because in doing so they acknowledged God in the matter, accepting that the satisfaction of their desire for a child lay at His disposal, not their own. They believed very simply that the power to open or close the womb was God's. So may we.


and anyway I thought every sperm was sacred........

Cheeky Little Monkey
19-10-2006, 23:12
Firstly, I am in no way being argumentative here, but Yasmeena, have you ever faced the prospect of infertility?

1+1=5
20-10-2006, 09:24
I'm a christian too and i whole heartedly believe God gave us everything we have including the incredible scientists who discover things like IVF. I think if God didn't want you to have a child, there is no way you would have one, if he allows you to have this child through IVF then obviously there is a reason why he wanted you to go through THAT process to concieve. I also believe that God helps those who help themselves and He would want us to actively try to help ourselves, kind of like meeting him half-way. Maybe that way we would appreciate what we have more who knows.

Anyway, i can see that this is an old thread, so congratulations on your pregnancy!

Yasmeena
20-10-2006, 10:29
If god gave us the scientists who 'discovered' ivf, then surely he also gave us the scientists who research stem-cells and contraceptives and the doctors who perform abortions?

It's not a matter of adjusting the gospel to suit oneself, even to 'help' oneself.
If you are seriously positing the argument that ivf is a form of interference 'approved by god', to enable people to meet Him halfway, than you are opening a can of justification worms for almost any action.

God may also want you to adopt or foster children in need, or become a missionary or build a church..... It is not for you to know the mind of God, but you must have faith in him. If you choose to have faith in God, why do it 'halfway'?


The only way to give God a right obedience may be to accept suffering and loss of the most extreme kind. The story of Abraham having to offer up his only son Isaac is there in the Bible to teach us exactly that, at even the most heart-wrenching, grievous level.

RedPanda
20-10-2006, 10:57
Yasmeena, the OP has been praying for a child and is now pregnant :yelclap: .

Your analogy is extreme. The question of "Why do things half-way" need not only apply to Christians. Christians don't claim to be perfect, they're just TRYING to obey God in the best way they can. I mean, would you ask a vegetarian who doesn't eat meat for ethical reasons to become a vegan? After all, why do it half-way? No you wouldn't, because they are already trying to do the best they can.

Btw, I do know of Christians who have refused IVF for religious reasons. I guess we all interpret God's word differently.

Yasmeena
20-10-2006, 11:13
I think the OP was less about preying and more about discussing christianity and ivf




Do you Christian ladies believe that to go through with IVF is to have a lack of faith? Or do you think that it is helping the physical body 'catch up' with the spiritual?

Whilst every individual is able to interpret their gospel 'differently' there is obviously some amount of objective guidance on christian morality and ethics given in the bible. :D I think my posts were quite relevant to the topic.

Vegetarianism is not a religion (although it may form part of the dietary requirements for some faiths) so I don't really think your analogy was apt. However, in my opinion vegetarians who have leather shoes are doing it 'half-way' :o

I completely agree with you though, neither vegetarians, vegans, christians or any human is perfect :p Most of us are just doing the best we can. :hugs:

Alatariel
20-10-2006, 11:15
Yasmeena, you got any quotes there to tell people where to draw the line? Dont take panadol because a doctor invented it? Dont give your child pennicillin because God meant for them to have that infection and if he wants them saved, he will? Don't have a doctor there in childbirth, because God obviously meant it to be a natural thing.. dont have that emergency caesar because God means for you to either struggle that baby out or die.
I'm afraid I dont see the logic behind just praying for something you want when there are things available to help you get what you want. If your religion is right (it isnt my religion but I'm willing to postulate) then God created everything and he put bad things down here so people would have to make a choice. If he wanted you to leave everythiung up to him, he wouldnt have given you options. I fail to see how IVF is not a 'good' option?

Yasmeena
20-10-2006, 11:34
God may not remove our suffering, but he can transform it into something that will bring benefit to us and glory to him - if that is what we desire, and if we will trust him to do so.

reAllytee
20-10-2006, 11:34
Yasmeena, you got any quotes there to tell people where to draw the line? Dont take panadol because a doctor invented it? Dont give your child pennicillin because God meant for them to have that infection and if he wants them saved, he will? Don't have a doctor there in childbirth, because God obviously meant it to be a natural thing.. dont have that emergency caesar because God means for you to either struggle that baby out or die.
I'm afraid I dont see the logic behind just praying for something you want when there are things available to help you get what you want. If your religion is right (it isnt my religion but I'm willing to postulate) then God created everything and he put bad things down here so people would have to make a choice. If he wanted you to leave everythiung up to him, he wouldnt have given you options. I fail to see how IVF is not a 'good' option?

:laughing: :laughing:

:yelclap:

FunkyMonkey
20-10-2006, 12:28
and anyway I thought every sperm was sacred........
So why do people have sex just because they want to? Or are you of the belief that intercourse is only for times when a womans body is receptive and able to conceive? (in which case so many women would NEVER have sex due to glitches in their makeup that prevent them from getting a baby to stick.)
If every sperm was so sacred why do men make so many? Millions and millions of them.......
As quite a few others have already said, God made us infinitly clever so that we could take care of ourselves and advance ourselves, why not care for those who suffer with childlessness.

Yasmeena
20-10-2006, 16:16
Tarquin's Mum - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9002085385040727366