Books on disciplining adopted/traumatized children.???

[Atlantic Puffin]

*Hi mods, I have also put this in the "discipline/behavior" section... for anyone in there that can help.

Does anyone know any books on dealing with traumatized adopted children, and/or books on disciplining them?

MIL has taken on caring for her half sisters daughter who is now 4 turning 5. Her parents have both died, and she was in foster care from about the age of 16months. She has been with us for 1 year now.
When she came to us she was very withdrawn, and had some strange behaviors... MIL gave her alot of room and is very lenient on her so she would feel comfortable in another country fitting in.... Now she is over powering, and has become very naughty.

MIL is at her wits end and is a mess. The girl knows the difference between right and wrong, but her latest episodes include bringing toads into the house when everyone was asleep, and this morning letting their indoor only cat, outside with the dogs.. The dogs attacked the cat and she was sitting there watching, not doing anything. When asked why she did these things, and what has she done, she simply starts crying and says i dont know. I think she figures when she crys MIL feels bad and hugs her and stuff and trys to comfort her.

MIL does not believe in smacking/hitting her, so if anyone knows any good books or where we can get information on how to deal with her that would be great.
MIL says she is still considered "traumatised" because of her parents death (even though she wouldnt remember them as they both died from seperate things when she was very young), and everything she went through while in foster care... She was basically ignored, and they had a very strict household... If that helps.

Would it be better dealing with her as a normal child, or as traumatized???

[JabberJaw]

Poor little girl, sounds like she is desperate for affection.

I dunno about books, but i think she should go to a GP for a referral to other places that can help (child psychologist, parenting classes etc etc)

I know my son isnt traumatised at all and he still would have no qualms in bringing toads inside etc! Some of it is just normal childhood behavior. My daughters wouldn't bring toads inside, but my son definitely would!

Because of all she has been through, maybe she is a bit behind in some normal behaviours. I am sure she will be fine.

[Atlantic Puffin]

Thanks Jabs, we thought it was the affection thing, because when ever MIL gives attention to the other two children in the house, she acts up really badly and misbehaves....
However, she gets the most attention in the house, and MIL is worn out from shutting herself off from the world to deal with and accommodate for her.
She has spoken to staff at anglicare where she did a course in foster caring... And they say she is doing the right thing, but in saying that, things are getting worse!!!...
I do think she is acting up for attention, but how do we change that so she does positive things for attention instead of negative things.
It is also creating drama with the other two children in the house. Although they love her, they are starting to resent her, and the youngest sibling (8yrs) is starting to act out to get attention like she does... Its such a difficult situation...

& yes, we did think maybe because she didnt get to live out her "terrible twos" in foster care because she was forced down and to be quiet, that maybe thats what she is trying to go through now.... But, she knows right from wrong which MIL sees as a difference, and she keeps doing the same things. (ie, going into MIL's bathroom and tipping all her top quality hair products down the drain etc)

MIL also refuses to go to a child psych because she thinks they wont understand her history etc.... I told MIL she should go to counselling as they might have ideas on how to deal with her, but she said no. So... She is very big on reading up on things so i thought maybe if we could find some books that could help, and took the girl for a day or so she could have a break and re-group.

By the way, we (me and DP) get along with the girl great... Although DP doesnt feel connected to her like a family member, he still loves her, and she and i are very attached. Maybe because i am the only other female adult who is a constant in her life. ?????

[JabberJaw]

Mmmm tough one!

She could read "Raising your Spirited child' by Mary Kurchinka Sheedy.

It gives some great insight into what goes in on little spirited ones heads! I read it a few years back and has changed they way i parent my kids, for the better. Gives me a bit more understanding of stuff.

Dunno if its exactly what you would be after, but is a good book. I got it from the library first then brought a copy!

[Atlantic Puffin]

Thanks, i might do that.. She is VERY spirited, thats for sure!...
I might go to the library on Monday and see if they have it!!!

Thank you :)

[RoarsomeMum]

MIL also refuses to go to a child psych because she thinks they wont understand her history etc.... I told MIL she should go to counselling as they might have ideas on how to deal with her, but she said no. So... She is very big on reading up on things so i thought maybe if we could find some books that could help, and took the girl for a day or so she could have a break and re-group.

By the way, we (me and DP) get along with the girl great... Although DP doesnt feel connected to her like a family member, he still loves her, and she and i are very attached. Maybe because i am the only other female adult who is a constant in her life. ?????

IMO, Your MIL is wrong in her belief that a child Psyc won't understand her history.. I am wondering where on earth she got that idea from. A child Psych who meets and talks to the child has a WAY better chance of coming up with viable methods of addressing behaviour with a TRUE understanding of "said child" rather than any sweeping generalisation you could find in a book..

[Atlantic Puffin]

Oh, Roarsome, i agree 110%!!!!! I honestly believe that a child psych could get to the core problem and come up with a viable solution better then what MIL could from some book...
BUT that doesnt change her thoughts....

Its surely better to try with books then nothing at all!!!! :(

[RoarsomeMum]

I am sure it is.. I am just sad Your MIL is not willing to try..

I hope you find a book.. I am worried though about the "validity" of any book that claims to know how to discipline traumatised kids.. They are all so different in their needs....

Big hugs for trying..

[RoarsomeMum]

Is there anything stopping You from seeing a professional on your own merits. As in an Auntie who is spending time with the child and wanting to learn appropriate ways of discipline given the background? That could help.

[Phyllis Stein]

Here are some links on attachment disorder, which outline the particular challenges adopted/ traumatised children face forming healthy bonds with caregivers and how best to respond to them. A secure attachment is at the heart of effective discipline.

http://www.attachmentdisorder.net/
http://adoption.families.com/blog/the-symptoms-of-reactive-attachment-disorder
http://www.healingresources.info/emotional_trauma_online_video.htm
http://www.healingresources.info/children_attachment.htm

I would also definitely keep pushing for her to see a psych.

Good luck. :hugs:

[jackie7]

To be honest Laa it sounds like RAD to me - Reactive Attachement Disorder.The number of primary caregiver situations she has experienced are an indication of this.

If MIL is not willing to have her see a child physc the situation will get worse - the lack of empathy over the animals being hurt is a key sign of RAD and in time it could escalate to involve her having a lack of empathy when other families members are hurt.

RAD is very serious. She will need much more support than a book brings - it may involve having to learn to parent the child in very specific ways.

You also need to know often there is co-exisiting conditions with RAD - ADHD, learning issues, COD, Conduct disorder, etc.

One of the books that I know a lot of people that work with these children read is "Building the bonds of attachment: awakening love in deeply troubled children". It may also hopefully help your MIL seek other medical support. Please be aware that this book is very confronting.
I also lost a parent very young and most likely still have hidden aspects of RAD - and I have co-existing conditions.


I also agree with Roar you need to see a specialist and also be involved with the process if your having regular contact you know how to look after your own family - just RAD tends to affect the extended family as well. Plus sometimes behaviours will be directed both internally and externally within the family units.

Ask her to ask DOCS or whatever state agency it is for a list of specialists that work with children with RAD or if not them one of the community welfare agencies (if you need help with this I might be able to suggest some).


Just be aware a lot of the websites that are about RAD are American Based so in terms of finding a therapist they might not be that helpful

[Atlantic Puffin]

Hi Jacki, Thanks for that info... I might have a read up on it tonight.

I spoke to MIL yesterday, and she flat our refuses to take her to a child psych. She says that all the people around her, and anglicare have all said no she doesnt need to see one and that would be a terrible idea.

I cant imagine why Anglicare or anyone would say that she shouldnt see one... It sounds like MIL just made this up because she doesnt want people to think that she is "crazy" or what ever....

I am SO annoyed. Its not about MIL, its about this little girl. Obviously the things that Anglicare and other sources suggest arent working on dealing with her, so why does she think its so bad for her to see someone professional who could help!!...

Seriously, i am REALLY annoyed. I really think that MIL doesnt know whats coming. She is oblivious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Veritas]

Absolutely second what Phyllis and Jackie have posted....

She needs some consultation with a professional and a plan in place....In our organisation we have a child and family counsellor... who works with the child in consultation with our psychologist to hash out a "diagnosis" and the issues the child is facing, but also works with the carers, siblings, etc to provide better understanding and help create a home environment in which they can all flourish, and the tools to deal with the unique complexities her situation brings....

There are professionals out there that specialise in children that either are in, or have been in, out of home care, so it's definitely not a case of they wouldn't understand her history, its just a matter of getting a referral to the right person....

What area/state etc are you in??

[Bubbles10]

I found "Toddler Adoption: THe Weaver's Craft" by Mary Hopkins-Best to have some great info. I bought it from Amazon

[teenie]

There are some great books by Heather T. Forbes and B. Bryan Post called, "Beyond Consequences, Logic and Control" that talk a great deal about adopted children. I have just read them because my 2 older siblings were adopted and diplayed a lot of extreme behaviours when growing up. I read them to gain a better understanding of them and what they went through. How I wish my parents had had access to such books because the strategies they outline are really, really great.

[Atlantic Puffin]

Veratis - MIL will NOT under any circumstances take her to anyone who could professionally help. After i wrote this and had a talk to her, i have just given up. I think the only way i can help my DP any myself, is to better educate myself so when she comes over/when i am over there, if she is misbehaving i can understand why and what I can personally do. MIL is at breaking point and there is nothing i can do anymore. Everytime she has an expolosion of doing something naughty, MIL says ... Thats it now, its all over... She had her big explosion, shes all back to normal. She is being so BLIND!!!!

Thanks Bubbles, i will look up on it.

& thanks Teenie, i will see if i can find a copy. I had a quick look on Ebay, and it was really REALLY expensive!.. Do you remember where you got your copy? Or where i could get a cheaper copy?? Maybe if i phoned my library they might have one.............?

Thanks everyone! :)

[Atlantic Puffin]

Teenie, i found one on Barnes and Noble for $15, + 18 shipping!...

On ebay they have them for $75+!!!!!!!!

I also got another one, Fight Less, Love More. Has had great reviews... But thats another story haha. :)

Thanks for your help!

[teenie]

That's great, laa. I hope the books help. Please keep us posted :)

[iliarna]

MIL is putting undue pressure on you by not dealing with her situation in appropriate ways. She is not coping/ managing. Find out how to deal with MIL, rather than the poor kids who are dependant on her. I've had suggestions such as asking open ended questions and allowing them to admit they need help or something (for a similar type)... perhaps call Parentline. You're right to give up it's not your job (til you start trying again cos you sound like the type.). Find a book on the MIL!
Re. child: don't ask a kid why they do something- if you can get one thing through to MIL, they need a swift reaction (go to your room!) not a debreifing or inquisition, AND MIL should be strong(steady) in the face of strong emotions so that the child can learn to manage hers. in my experience. (I wouldn't worry about the lack of empathy, it can be lacking for developmental reasons, just wait.,, in my experience.)
Don't treat her like she's DAMAGED only a box of goods can be damaged, people especially children are growing and changing all the time. Show MIL she is just another individual little personality, a girl like any other... who lets you practice patience and be creative in your interactions more than others :D :babydust1:
The kid might need more kids her age to play with, to run around and burn off some of that rebellion, tire her out, more sleep, different food - no colours or flavours or preservatives - calms them right down.

[Atlantic Puffin]

Iliana - thanks for that. I will look into that.. I think firstly i am going to try with the girl, and how i can deal with her when im around her. & To try to help my DP understand why she acts the way she does.

MIL is a WHOLEEEEE different story.. haha

[jackie7]

I wouldn't worry about the lack of empathy, it can be lacking for developmental reasons, just wait.,, in my experience.

I would be very cautious about this advice - for children that have been exposed to a range of primary caregiver relationships during the first five years can very well have serious attachment issues (they are vulnerable and have potential to develop RAD). It is not that cut and dried. Often the lack of empathy is a serious sign of attachment challenges for a child.