View Full Version : Do I judge this Mum? Actually yes I do
samsausage
04-01-2011, 15:28
I seriously can't fathom where some people's heads are.
I was at a childrens playground in a shopping centre when I realised there was a five year old girl there unattended. Apparently her mum was 'getting a massage' (about two shops down from the playground is a chinese massage place). The girl was unattended, close to a set of automatic doors leading directly onto a busy carpark for at least 45 minutes (she was there when I arrived so not sure exactly how long).
I called the police but Mum returned before they got there. What irks me most was her attitude - absolutely no idea how dangerous (not to mention illegal) her actions were. Apparently because she has no childcare available and her daughter knew where she was it was all ok. :frustrated:
Theophania
04-01-2011, 15:30
I shudder to think what could have happened to that poor child :no: Thank goodness that she was ok, but seriously... WTF??? I try not to judge I really do, but I can't come up with any ideas on how this could ever be ok...
waterlily
04-01-2011, 15:34
Omg that's really scary!!
That's could have ended bad in so Manu different ways :( poor little girl.
urgh i used to work at bunnings and the amount of people who leave their kids in their whilst they do their shopping is disgusting, im talking 2-3 year olds by themselves, most of the times the kids would become hysterical and we would have to page their parents.
But this one woman takes the cake, she put her kids in the playground, then left bunnings to go to the shopping centre across the road and do her christmas shopping. The police were called and it took over an hour after the police got there before they got in contact with her
Yeah you can judge! Poor little girl, how lonely for her.
DP and I were driving home once and there was a 3 year old sitting in the middle of the road, naked, in the hot sun. There were some other kids playing on the grass in the front of a house.
I got out and knocked on the door and it was the neighbour - the mother came out from the house next door and I went to talk to her (just to let her know- she was scary!) she turned her back to me and started yelling at the kids for playing there!
Umm ALL the kids were out the front with your naked 3 year old on the road lady- I think you are the one who needs yelling at!
I judged her and regret not reporting her!
delirium
04-01-2011, 15:36
I loathe to judge people's parenting choices, except in the case of child welfare/abuse. It's rare I say this, but I agree with you, I probably would have judged her. You are right, she could have got lost, kidnapped, hurt. My DD is 6 and very grown up and I would NEVER do that.
oh my gosh!
I thought it was bad when someone left their kid in one of those ones in a shopping centre to buy doughnuts a few shops up!
Dear me!
Seriously, if you need your 'me time' that much, look into occasional care, if you can afford a massage you can afford childcare!
Used to happen at Maccas ALL the time... I bet it still does too.
Hootenanny
04-01-2011, 15:43
Wow, for a MASSAGE!! Not that there is any excuse, but if her mother thinks she is responsible enough to be left to fend for herself in a playground then she would be responsible enough to sit in a room with her mother whilst she has her massage.:banghead2:
I agree Delirium!
It's awful. DH got call for a job where a child was locked in the car. 29 degree day, windows and doors shut. A man heard the child screaming and looked around for 5 minutes and called the police. They police were 15 minutes away so DH told him to smash the window.
The child was in a serious condition I'm hopsital for 3 days, fortunately made a full recovery. A review of CCTV footage showed the child was there for 45 minutes before the man broke the window :(. He was 18 months old!
The mother was 'just' doing some shopping :no:. How can you not judge? I don't like to and I have to wonder what they're circumstances are. I think if they knew better they wouldn't do it but I don't know anymore. I hear too many stories from DH to be empathetic sometimes.
My husband is a volunteer life guard and he says every weekend there are young kids left on the beach alone or with siblings while parents go shopping or get a coffee etc. Scary leaving kids near the water.
zombiekitty
04-01-2011, 16:34
I loathe to judge people's parenting choices, except in the case of child welfare/abuse. It's rare I say this, but I agree with you, I probably would have judged her. You are right, she could have got lost, kidnapped, hurt.
I have to agree.
lovemybabies!
04-01-2011, 16:43
I would judge too. A massage, seriously?
MamaKoala
04-01-2011, 16:58
So what age is appropriate to trust that your kids will stay in one spot? I leave my kids at a table while I go get their food in the food court. They are allowed to go to their friends house across the street. They are 7 and soon to be 9. They will also be allowed to ride their scooters home from school this year. I agree 5 Is a little on the young side but I've let my boys stay on those carousel things outside the chemist while I had my script filled. I'm pretty sure they were around 5.
nothanksbye
04-01-2011, 17:09
How do you know all this?
did you talk to the mum?
How long was the child there for?
I have to admit I do the same as mamakoala and will leave the kids on the ride outside the chemist while I get a script filled.
I also let them sit at the front of the supermarket while I load and pay..
I guess it wasnt the smartest thing to do..
I watched a video today abotu a mum who left her baby in the bath alone and the baby drowned.
The mum was very honest and said...she just didnt think..she went out and got some clothes and chatted to her hubby and went back in and bubba was gone.
Its ****ty ...i guess we all make some stupid choices.
I would have waited with the child...but not called the police if I knew where the mum was.
Its kind of amazing when you think of what happens at school...like at 3.05 the bell goes and all the kids just pile out on the playground...if mum is there great but if not , the kids just start walking......no supervision...
so I think from school age, parents get a lot more lax.
DaughteroftheForest
04-01-2011, 17:15
So what age is appropriate to trust that your kids will stay in one spot? I leave my kids at a table while I go get their food in the food court. They are allowed to go to their friends house across the street. They are 7 and soon to be 9. They will also be allowed to ride their scooters home from school this year. I agree 5 Is a little on the young side but I've let my boys stay on those carousel things outside the chemist while I had my script filled. I'm pretty sure they were around 5.
That's a little different though. In those circumstances you'd be free to look around, check on them etc from afar. If you're having a massage you're generally face down on a table, or at the very least stationary.
I have a 5 year old and there is no way I would leave him unattended in a shopping mall at any point, for any reason. He's just not old enough to have any sort of sense yet.
I think it was rather harsh of you to ring the police when you had multiple other options available to you, that would have been more appropriate. Some ideas? You could have contacted center management, or you could have taken the child to the massage place and tell them that the childs mother was in their shop.
Why are we not so harsh on the places that provide these areas as we are on MOTHERS? Bunnings, westfield, Maccas, etc? These are multi billion dollar corporations, why are they putting play centers in their shops? To make more money? It is a bit strange, though I rarely hear people question these major powers. Much easier to judge a single person no doubt.
Are you sure of all the facts? Sometimes we think things that simply aren't true.
I made quite a sausage of myself when I parked my car across the road from a little girl standing on the footpath alone and I got out to ask if she was okay. Then her dad appeared from the front yard :doh: I was so worried when I first saw her but thank god I didn't make more of an idiot of myself by making a quick judgement of the parents!
Anyway, if she was in fact left completely alone in a mall I totally agree - not cool at all. I trust 5 year olds. It's other [adult] people I don't trust!
Theophania
04-01-2011, 17:27
OP I don't think you were harsh at all in calling the police. This was a child welfare issue. This girl was 5 FFS and left ALONE in a massive shopping centre. There is no way that was safe. How do you know this mother isn't constantly negligent and perhaps this isn't the first time, phoning the police would atleast alert them to the incident..
Too bad if something had of happened to that girl, we would have all sat back and asked why she was left alone... There are terrible people out there in this world, that is a reality and it only takes a split second for someone to take them away. Its in the news allllll the time...
zombiekitty
04-01-2011, 17:31
I watched a video today abotu a mum who left her baby in the bath alone and the baby drowned.
The mum was very honest and said...she just didnt think..she went out and got some clothes and chatted to her hubby and went back in and bubba was gone.
:( So sad.
I think it's totally different to deliberatley leaving your kids in a public place, though.
I mean, for an accident to occur due to a slip of the mind is different to leaving your child unattended in a public place.
samsausage
04-01-2011, 17:31
How do you know all this? did you talk to the mum? How long was the child there for?
I knew because I was there, the child was unattended for at least 45 minutes, I spoke to the mum who didn't give any indication she thought her actions were wrong.
I think it was rather harsh of you to ring the police when you had multiple other options available to you, that would have been more appropriate. Some ideas? You could have contacted center management, or you could have taken the child to the massage place and tell them that the childs mother was in their shop.
If you read my OP I did contact security, he said he couldn't do anything. As for going to the massage place, well to be honest I didn't know anything about the parent and wasn't about to have a confrontation until I had at least seen them.
When I called the police they were very concerned and asked that I stay until they arrived or the mother returned. TBH I'm a little shocked at what some people deem to be safe when it comes to their kids. My son is 4yrs old, he is supervised at all times because he is a small child, I'm his mother and that's my job. It takes seconds for a child to walk into a carpark, fall of a balcony (of which there were several nearby) or be taken by a stranger - not risks I'm prepared to take.
Why are we not so harsh on the places that provide these areas as we are on MOTHERS? Bunnings, westfield, Maccas, etc? These are multi billion dollar corporations, why are they putting play centers in their shops? To make more money? It is a bit strange, though I rarely hear people question these major powers. Much easier to judge a single person no doubt.
Honestly, I think that's a cop out. They put playcentres in these areas to draw parents into the shops for sure, they also put up signs saying that children must be supervised at all times - I'm surprised that even has to be said.
BabelFish
04-01-2011, 17:32
OP I don't think you were harsh at all in calling the police. This was a child welfare issue. This girl was 5 FFS and left ALONE in a massive shopping centre. There is no way that was safe. How do you know this mother isn't constantly negligent and perhaps this isn't the first time, phoning the police would atleast alert them to the incident..
Too bad if something had of happened to that girl, we would have all sat back and asked why she was left alone... There are terrible people out there in this world, that is a reality and it only takes a split second for someone to take them away. Its in the news allllll the time...
Completely and totally agree with all of this, but especially the bolded part.
If I had done something so utterly idiotic and negligent as this woman (and I never will) having the police called on me would shock me right out of my stupidity and make me think twice in future before EVER considering doing such a thing again. And so it should.
I saw a woman driving along the other day with her newborn in a baby capsule on the passenger seat next to her (in the front of the car) and a man and a child in a car seat in the back.
I asked my BIL who is a policeman if there had have been anyone I could call - I got the license plate number - and he said the hoon hotline would be the place to go. It's not hooning, obviously, but it IS about road safety.
And so what if she thought it was ok (for whatever reason no matter how `valid') to have her little baby in the front seat of the car? Yeah, it was in a capsule. So what? Had there been an accident that capsule and/or baby would have gone straight through the windscreen.
Sometimes you have to forget people's precious sensibilities in order to look after their children, if clearly they don't have the brains or the common sense to do so themselves.
Take the child to the massage place?
I wouldn't remove the child from that spot - I would wait for the mother or get the police to come there as you did.
It's not another parents responsibility nor is it appropriate to take the child away from where they were 'left'.
You did the right thing by calling the police OP- they are the safest option for a child in that situation.
ElizaDoLittle
04-01-2011, 17:54
Good job op. 45 mins? I would have called the police too. Xx
nothanksbye
04-01-2011, 17:59
:( So sad.
I think it's totally different to deliberatley leaving your kids in a public place, though.
I mean, for an accident to occur due to a slip of the mind is different to leaving your child unattended in a public place.
Really?
I dont think so.
Both are stupid and both are dangerous.
But both are very possible due to over tired, over worked, time poor women.
samsausage
04-01-2011, 18:01
If I had done something so utterly idiotic and negligent as this woman (and I never will) having the police called on me would shock me right out of my stupidity and make me think twice in future before EVER considering doing such a thing again. And so it should.
Exactly. If I did something to endanger my son I really hope someone would act to protect him and give me a wake up call.
Really?
I dont think so.
Both are stupid and both are dangerous.
But both are very possible due to over tired, over worked, time poor women.
I was just pondering this myself. Lots of mothers stuff up. It's not because we're female, it's not because we're mothers or we're nasty - it's because we have little to no time to think, we have little to no sleep, and we always put others first. I can absolutely understand how that poor woman would have been in a haze and lost her bubba :( So, so sad.
BabelFish
04-01-2011, 18:19
I've been thinking more about this - and I just can't get past the 45 minutes thing.
That is a LONG time - it's a long time for an adult to sit there waiting for someone, but a 5-year-old? That child must have had superhuman resilience to resist wandering off to look at stuff to relieve her boredom.
Which makes me think that this is far from being the first time this mother has done something like this.
That poor, poor baby. How lonely and frightening for her, not to mention the feelings of abandonment she might have because of it. Her safety is less important to her mother than getting a massage. Wow - that would sure give me a complex.
OP, I must be honest and tell you that I don't care if you think my criticism of massive corporations is a cop out, for I think you starting a thread here on bubhub, and calling the police was a cop out.
Just out of curiosity, how do you know the child was only 5? Or is that just your assumption too?
BabelFish
04-01-2011, 18:23
Spoon I know this was directed at the OP but you've kind of lost me - how is what she did a cop-out? She watched the child, she called the police, and she also spoke to the mother. That's pretty proactive, if you ask me (which you didn't, but I wanted to clarify what you meant).
Why are we not so harsh on the places that provide these areas as we are on MOTHERS? Bunnings, westfield, Maccas, etc? These are multi billion dollar corporations, why are they putting play centers in their shops? To make more money? It is a bit strange, though I rarely hear people question these major powers. Much easier to judge a single person no doubt.
Sorry, but how ridiculous. It is the parents responsibility and the parents alone. The playgrounds at those establishments are a god send for us - my partner takes LO to the playground while I shop, or vice versa. It's great, because everyone is happy and we get stuff done without a bored/upset toddler in tow. We would never leave one of our children in there alone though, and I think you will find signs on those playgrounds asking parents to constantly supervise.
SpecialPatrolGroup
04-01-2011, 18:30
:( So sad.
I think it's totally different to deliberatley leaving your kids in a public place, though.
I mean, for an accident to occur due to a slip of the mind is different to leaving your child unattended in a public place.
Not different at all in my mind, both acts require an absence of consideration for the consequences, just the same as leaving a child in a hot car for an extended period of time.
As for blaming the establishments that provide play equipment, I think that is absurd. A reasonable person does not expect an unattended piece of play equipment to substitute for adult supervision. .
OP, you did entirely the right thing IMO.
waterlily
04-01-2011, 18:30
OP, I must be honest and tell you that I don't care if you think my criticism of massive corporations is a cop out, for I think you starting a thread here on bubhub, and calling the police was a cop out.
Just out of curiosity, how do you know the child was only 5? Or is that just your assumption too?
That makes no sence at all, how is what OP did a cop-out?
I would have called the police!!
Would you have even tried to help the child or ignored the situation?
I should also add that I would have done the same thing as you OP, thank heavens nothing happened to that poor child.
BabelFish
04-01-2011, 18:31
Plus I would never deliberately choose to shop at a place that had a playground over one that didn't. If there happens to be one where I'm shopping, great. But I wouldn't go out of my way to go there. And my kids have also never played on the playgrounds at Bunnings etc ... that isn't the reason I choose to shop where I shop. Or even one of the reasons.
samsausage
04-01-2011, 18:32
OP, I must be honest and tell you that I don't care if you think my criticism of massive corporations is a cop out, for I think you starting a thread here on bubhub, and calling the police was a cop out.
Just out of curiosity, how do you know the child was only 5? Or is that just your assumption too?
I chatted to this little girl for quite a while, she was playing with my son. She is 5, hasn't started school yet, doesn't have any siblings, likes coming to the shops as she usually gets an icecream (preferably chocolate)....and so on.
I'm usually the first one to thumb my nose at big corporations but the blame in this case rests squarely with the mother - she made a conscious choice to leave her 5 year old child unattended for 45 minutes to get......a massage.
As for you thinking me starting a thread was a cop out, isn't this a forum? And as far as calling the police goes, they didn't seem to feel it was a cop out (scuse the pun) either.
ElastiGirl
04-01-2011, 18:33
I seriously can't fathom where some people's heads are.
I was at a childrens playground in a shopping centre when I realised there was a five year old girl there unattended. Apparently her mum was 'getting a massage' (about two shops down from the playground is a chinese massage place). The girl was unattended, close to a set of automatic doors leading directly onto a busy carpark for at least 45 minutes (she was there when I arrived so not sure exactly how long).
I called the police but Mum returned before they got there. What irks me most was her attitude - absolutely no idea how dangerous (not to mention illegal) her actions were. Apparently because she has no childcare available and her daughter knew where she was it was all ok. :frustrated:
Hmm.....
If its anything like the little playground in south land shopping center with the shops around it then personally I wouldn't care. From all the shops you can view the playground. The child was 5 and knew where her mother was. So going off a visual in my head of this scene I personally would not judge her.
Fuchsia!
04-01-2011, 18:53
Obviously this mothers assessment of danger was different to the OPs and others. Whist I wouldnt do this myself, I think its up to the mother to decide what is dangerous.
I would be 100% positive if she spent time with someones family on here who are against what she done, she would be appalled at some of the "dangerous" things they would do.
For example, I absolutely HATE motorbikes, I think they are incredibly dangerous for children and its very irresponsible to have children on them.
But, obviously other parents dont see the danger in motorbikes the way i do.
I could come up with a million more examples.
Something bad could have happened, but our children are danger magnets, they attract danger everywhere we go, we take risks with our children all the time and a lot of them are un necessary risks as well. From the moment we walk out the door, in the car, when they are school, playing in the backyard. So many many risks. But we dont judge all those times, if we did, our heads would explode.
You can judge all you like OP, thats up to you. But believe me, there is someone judging your choices as well.
BabelFish
04-01-2011, 18:58
That's very true - but that's ok. It's through having some of my choices judged that I have learned and grown and changed.
Do people honestly, truly feel that we want a society with NO judgement, EVER?
OP you did the right thing.
Say that mother could see her child....she would also be seeing her child be kidnapped if some person decided to take off with her. There was a girl recently on the news who was found many, many years after she was kidnapped as a child. she was ripped off her bike in front of her father! he saw her be taken away. these things can all happen in a split second and mum being many meters away, most likely flat on her stomach would not have a chance of chasing a person down. also, say she did see her little girl....why would you allow a stranger to sit there and talk to your child?
Fuchsia!
04-01-2011, 19:03
That's very true - but that's ok. It's through having some of my choices judged that I have learned and grown and changed.
Do people honestly, truly feel that we want a society with NO judgement, EVER?
Oh everyone judges! Anyone who says they dont are liars!
And I agree that the OP is allowed to judge, but sometimes its good to look at all angles and look more deeply into it and sometimes (well in my case) i can change my judgements.
I think thats a lot of peoples problems (and im guilty of this) is we jump the gun and automatically judge and stick to that judgement.
I prefer to look at everything, compare it to other scenarios and try and work out why someone is doing something stupid.
But thats just me, I over analyse everything :D
samsausage
04-01-2011, 19:21
You can judge all you like OP, thats up to you. But believe me, there is someone judging your choices as well.
Absolutely, I have no issue with that. TBH I should have worded the title better - I don't judge that mother as an individual, I judge her action at that point in time.
As for motorbikes, I couldn't agree more, I've been an ambo for 14 years and would move heaven and earth never to have my son ride one (or any form of motorised transport for that matter!)
Whist I wouldnt do this myself, I think its up to the mother to decide what is dangerous.
This I don't agree with, the massage place has a facade at the shopfront which you go behind and then into a cubicle for a massage, mum wasn't watching this child from a reasonable distance. There is no way she could ensure her daughters safety.
Hannahly
04-01-2011, 20:10
I'm quite interested in these types of topics at the moment. It is very much the 'free-range kids' ( the NY mum who got slammed for allowing her 9yo to ride subway alone to school) debate and the 'thriving' principle (Michael Grouse).
I probably wouldn't be game enough, I also saw another article debating whether a 5 and 6 year old should have been allowed to play in playground across the road whilst parents garden in front yard. I thought that was perfectly fine and responsibility building.
On another note, I dont understand why the police would get involved if everybody knew where mum was?
I have to agree Fushcia, while it's something I would say.. yup, probably not the smartest thing to do! Everybody makes their own risk assessments. Personally, I *cringe* seeing babies put in an unsafe bed (SIDS risk), it honestly makes me sick to the absolute stomach but I actually think I'm in a *minority* of people who think it's not cotton-wooling or silly to follow the SIDS guidelines to a tee.
Who knows, maybe this was the first and last time this particular mother had done this and wouldn't have even comprehended that people may call the police?!
Fuchsia!
04-01-2011, 20:58
This I don't agree with, the massage place has a facade at the shopfront which you go behind and then into a cubicle for a massage, mum wasn't watching this child from a reasonable distance. There is no way she could ensure her daughters safety.
You can never ensure your childs safety. She could have taken the child in the shop with her and the child could have swallowed poison or cut himself on scissors ect..Then you would say, well the mother should wait til she doesn't have the child for a massage, then she could walk out into the car park and her child get hit by a crazy driver, or snatched out of her hands. The list could go on and on.
Now I don't agree with what she done, but Im not her, Im not in her circumstances, I have no idea what her daughter is like, I have no idea how the mother was brought up, I have no idea about anything in their lives. You only caught a tiny snippet of this mothers life. She may not have thought it was a big deal, you did. But she may be over protective with other things that you would be leniant on and she would be thinking "what the heck is wrong with that mother letting her child do that"
Different things are dangerous for different people.
bubbella
04-01-2011, 21:38
While this is not something I would do myself I don't agree with what this mother did but I agree with all comments made about looking at the situation from different perspectives. Everyone has different methods and thoughts about responding to what they perceive as danger and calling the police is a good option even if it only 'scares' the mum into thinking twice about leaving her child alone in a shopping centre again.
A few years ago while doing Xmas shopping I noticed a very sick boy sitting on those chair settings they have in westfields with a plastic bag filled with vomit an looking very pale. I stood and looked for a parent nearby for almost 10 mins when his mother approached, thankfully I watched on and was shocked at what I saw, the mother gave him a fresh plastic bag, checked his temp and disappeared. I immediately alerted centre management who spoke with the boy who said his mum went home!!!!! Apparently she left him there for the air conditioning, how nice!!!! The police were called and the mother came back but even four people saying to her she did the wrong thing could not convince her otherwise
sunshinebub
04-01-2011, 22:29
I don't know how I would act in this situation but I know that I think this mother is an idiot for leaving her child unattended...I am putting myself in her shoes, would I leave my 5 yr old daughter unattended while I had a massage??
No flipping way.........my kids are too precious for me to take chances like that..but each to their own....
At least OP you cared enough to look out for this little girl xx
BabelFish
04-01-2011, 22:47
No, you can never completely ensure your child's safety.
But you can sure as hell not invite trouble by leaving a five-year-old unattended in a shopping centre, out of your sight and alone for nearly an hour while you have a massage.
There are calculated risks (taking them in a car, for example) and there is plain stupidity.
when I was five I played in the park by myself all the time. I was raised very independant and very very wary of strangers and traffic and all the other bad things in the world. I think my parents were extremely trusting but they had also prepared me well. I don't judge her but I realise leaving kids on their own is really frowned on these days and pretty much anyone who let's their kids out of their sight before high school is potentially gonna be given the evil eye.
TimTamsandTea
04-01-2011, 23:15
I struggle to see an alternative view to this event.
To me, the op describes a text book case of stupidity.
To leave a five-year-old child unattended in a location that has been described as having multiple points of potential (and quite real) danger. How is that in any way ok?
It was good luck rather than good management that resulted in nothing happening to this child.
nicole7070
04-01-2011, 23:18
Just a few observations from everyones arguements....
1. Some of u clearly missed ur calling & should have been cops yourselves, but u never know, u may b old & lonely later in life & have all day to put your noses in other peoples lives & the choices they make
2. Some of u seem to thinku r faultless when it comes to the right decision & childrens safety, never made a bad decision, never disagreed with someone elses perception of right & wrong?....of course u have, but let me guess...your ideas r the correct ones??!!!! If u honestly think u never have or never will make a decision which in hindsight was wrong, u r a liar or just kidding yourself!
3. All the rational normal mothers who make mistakes, have regrets, & obviously r not perfect....good on u! That's how we learn right? But, if u know everything already, I suppose life must b peachy & u must feel like the picture of perfection
4. This may be a 'forum' but I just find it sad that this seems to b one for making mothers who don't share your strict, suffocating, cottonwool ideas for child safety to b inadequate, negligent & welfare based.
5. Everything like this example of supposed 'bad parenting' must b examined individually. We all know children who r more apt in maturity/development than others the same age...if the child felt unsafe at 5yrs, I am sure it would show some signs of distress, I also think it must have been intelligent enough to ask/cry for help in the unlikely event it needed assistance in a public, busy place, wouldn't u think? The only distress the poor child suffered was a woman asking it 20questions before calling the cops to it's mother!!
But so long as u slept with a clear conscious that night, right?!
6. I need to make it clear, I do not condone what choice the mother made leaving her child, nor do I know whether I would allow my twins to b alone like that when they r 5yrs, but I do know everything is dependant on the individual...my twins (obviously the same age) could not b more different in development, maturity & personality. Every decision I make for them will b on a case by case basis taking into account a million different factors for each of them individually. Not...u r five, u r without ur mum so u r in danger & ur mum needs to learn a lesson which today I will b teaching her. Ohhhh, to have so much time on my hands!......hehe
SpecialPatrolGroup
04-01-2011, 23:31
Just a few observations from everyones arguements....
1. Some of u clearly missed ur calling & should have been cops yourselves, but u never know, u may b old & lonely later in life & have all day to put your noses in other peoples lives & the choices they make
2. Some of u seem to thinku r faultless when it comes to the right decision & childrens safety, never made a bad decision, never disagreed with someone elses perception of right & wrong?....of course u have, but let me guess...your ideas r the correct ones??!!!! If u honestly think u never have or never will make a decision which in hindsight was wrong, u r a liar or just kidding yourself!
3. All the rational normal mothers who make mistakes, have regrets, & obviously r not perfect....good on u! That's how we learn right? But, if u know everything already, I suppose life must b peachy & u must feel like the picture of perfection
4. This may be a 'forum' but I just find it sad that this seems to b one for making mothers who don't share your strict, suffocating, cottonwool ideas for child safety to b inadequate, negligent & welfare based.
5. Everything like this example of supposed 'bad parenting' must b examined individually. We all know children who r more apt in maturity/development than others the same age...if the child felt unsafe at 5yrs, I am sure it would show some signs of distress, I also think it must have been intelligent enough to ask/cry for help in the unlikely event it needed assistance in a public, busy place, wouldn't u think? The only distress the poor child suffered was a woman asking it 20questions before calling the cops to it's mother!!
But so long as u slept with a clear conscious that night, right?!
6. I need to make it clear, I do not condone what choice the mother made leaving her child, nor do I know whether I would allow my twins to b alone like that when they r 5yrs, but I do know everything is dependant on the individual...my twins (obviously the same age) could not b more different in development, maturity & personality. Every decision I make for them will b on a case by case basis taking into account a million different factors for each of them individually. Not...u r five, u r without ur mum so u r in danger & ur mum needs to learn a lesson which today I will b teaching her. Ohhhh, to have so much time on my hands!......hehe
Can we play nice please? Obviously no one is perfect, but the tone of your post is very sarcastic which is not going to enhance this discussion.
BabelFish
04-01-2011, 23:32
nicole there are many threads like this on the Hub and most of the time the women and men on here respond with insight, understanding and empathy, taking into consideration the many different circumstances that mothers face and the difference in people's choices and decisions.
I can understand to a new member how it must look like a thread full of nasty judgemental bishes who think they are perfect.
But that's not so and I hope that as you spend more time here you will realise that this is a forum of mostly very sympathetic and understanding women - more so than most that people come across in real life.
In this situation, though (and I can only speak for myself here) I cannot see any circumstance or extenuating situation where it would be acceptable to calculatedly leave a five-year-old alone like that for 45 minutes, out of sight and out of touch.
There's LOTS of circumstances where you can think of any number of reasons why something that *looks* really bad probably isn't that bad after all.
But to make a decision to leave your child for that long is a huge risk and not one to be treated lightly. Children are kidnapped from shopping centres and people who do this aren't always your big, scary man that means that a child is going to show signs of distress or cry out.
If it were that simple to keep a child safe then nobody would be worried.
I agree with other posters who have said that no matter how they look at it, there just could be no reasonable explanation for doing something so reckless with your precious child.
So while I can understand your frustrations and even agree with you to a point, I think that the reactions to this situation for the most part have been really understandable and fair.
nicole7070
04-01-2011, 23:33
Just an observation & personal opinion..
TimTamsandTea
04-01-2011, 23:33
Just a few observations from everyones arguements....
1. Some of u clearly missed ur calling & should have been cops yourselves, but u never know, u may b old & lonely later in life & have all day to put your noses in other peoples lives & the choices they make
2. Some of u seem to thinku r faultless when it comes to the right decision & childrens safety, never made a bad decision, never disagreed with someone elses perception of right & wrong?....of course u have, but let me guess...your ideas r the correct ones??!!!! If u honestly think u never have or never will make a decision which in hindsight was wrong, u r a liar or just kidding yourself!
3. All the rational normal mothers who make mistakes, have regrets, & obviously r not perfect....good on u! That's how we learn right? But, if u know everything already, I suppose life must b peachy & u must feel like the picture of perfection
4. This may be a 'forum' but I just find it sad that this seems to b one for making mothers who don't share your strict, suffocating, cottonwool ideas for child safety to b inadequate, negligent & welfare based.
5. Everything like this example of supposed 'bad parenting' must b examined individually. We all know children who r more apt in maturity/development than others the same age...if the child felt unsafe at 5yrs, I am sure it would show some signs of distress, I also think it must have been intelligent enough to ask/cry for help in the unlikely event it needed assistance in a public, busy place, wouldn't u think? The only distress the poor child suffered was a woman asking it 20questions before calling the cops to it's mother!!
But so long as u slept with a clear conscious that night, right?!
6. I need to make it clear, I do not condone what choice the mother made leaving her child, nor do I know whether I would allow my twins to b alone like that when they r 5yrs, but I do know everything is dependant on the individual...my twins (obviously the same age) could not b more different in development, maturity & personality. Every decision I make for them will b on a case by case basis taking into account a million different factors for each of them individually. Not...u r five, u r without ur mum so u r in danger & ur mum needs to learn a lesson which today I will b teaching her. Ohhhh, to have so much time on my hands!......hehe
So if you don't condone it, you too have judged this woman's decision as inappropriate?
sunshinebub
04-01-2011, 23:34
Can we play nice please? Obviously no one is perfect, but the tone of your post is very sarcastic which is not going to enhance this discussion.
:iagree:
I probably wouldn't do it but I would definitely not hesitate with say an 8 year old. In fact I fully intend for my children to be walking to school on their own and to be able to walk down to the shops on their own etc in primary school. Not everyone supervises their children so closely. To me five seems a tad young but if the child knew where their mum was and seemed happy I wouldn't have seen it as an emergency
I probably wouldn't do it but I would definitely not hesitate with say an 8 year old. In fact I fully intend for my children to be walking to school on their own and to be able to walk down to the shops on their own etc in primary school. Not everyone supervises their children so closely. To me five seems a tad young but if the child knew where their mum was and seemed happy I wouldn't have seen it as an emergency
I dont have an eight year old .. so I cant tell how I will feel when he is eight ..
but at five?? I have a five year old .. and there is no way I would leave him in a public place without me being able to see him for any length of time .. what if he needed the toilet? what if he went to look for me .. and then went the wrong way and got lost? what if someone asked him if he wanted a drink - he realised he was thirsty .. and then he made the WRONG choice and went with someone?
I personally (jmo) dont believe that a five year old is mature enough to make safety based decisions ... I wouldn't allow a five year old to cross a road alone - use the stove unattended ... or play for half an hour in a public place ...
five year olds simply do not have the problem solving skills to get themselves out of situations when they arise.
SpecialPatrolGroup
04-01-2011, 23:51
I don't know that the OP herself considered it an emergency, more a welfare concern.
Lets not forget, it is not unheard of for a parent to simply not return for their child. Do you remember "Pumpkin"?
*shudder* ... that poor little kid .. (pumpkin .. :( )
tbh .. the discussion of whether or not is ok to leave a child in the playground alone - reminded me of that poor little soul in perth .. who's family walked her TO the end of the bathroom corridor/ hallway... only for her to still be attacked while she was in the bathroom :( you simply can not trust every person in society .. the consequences are not reversible ... and can be completely heartbreaking. :(
share a book
05-01-2011, 00:10
So sad, yes poor little Pumpkin will stay in my mind forever, Better to overreact than face the loss of a child.
*shudder* ... that poor little kid .. (pumpkin .. :( )
tbh .. the discussion of whether or not is ok to leave a child in the playground alone - reminded me of that poor little soul in perth .. who's family walked her TO the end of the bathroom corridor/ hallway... only for her to still be attacked while she was in the bathroom :( you simply can not trust every person in society .. the consequences are not reversible ... and can be completely heartbreaking. :(
Yes that was completely devastating and really for any of us in Perth its pretty haunting going to those shops. But that was a disabled toilet so the little girl was not even being sent into a normal toilet alone which is what most of us fear. That was a complete freak thing and let's not forget EXTREMELy rare. The person was a complete psychopath who basically assaulted her in a public place without even thinking about getting caught. We all fear these things which is why it is so important to teach children to be assertive and really understand stranger danger, including that not all strangers and strange looking and to drill into them that it is never okay to go with anyone without asking mum first no matter WHAT and even if they say mum is in the hospital or anything because we actually can't be there all the time which sucks. I do think 5 is too young but there is no magic age where it suddenly becomes okay is there?
BabelFish
05-01-2011, 00:49
So how does a child ask their mother when that mother isn't even around?
Well if the five year old knows where their mum is they could say "ill just wait till my mum gets back" or "ill just ask my mum she is in that shop" I guess. Unless they are complete psycho who would just pick the kid up and run and then they probably wouldn't care if a parent was near by or not
I dunno I realize its not ideal but maybe this kid and parent might have a system
SpecialPatrolGroup
05-01-2011, 01:03
Well if the five year old knows where their mum is they could say "ill just wait till my mum gets back" or "ill just ask my mum she is in that shop" I guess. Unless they are complete psycho who would just pick the kid up and run and then they probably wouldn't care if a parent was near by or not
Or, just provide adequate supervision for your child and then that takes away so many of those issues! My niece is 8 and I would not leave her on a playground in a shopping centre and be out of sight.
I'm leaving this debate cos clearly we have differing opinions and will never agree lol and I respect and agree with all of your opinions on many other issues so yeah, I am going to bed and happy to agree to disagree
BabelFish
05-01-2011, 01:25
Well if the five year old knows where their mum is they could say "ill just wait till my mum gets back" or "ill just ask my mum she is in that shop" I guess. Unless they are complete psycho who would just pick the kid up and run and then they probably wouldn't care if a parent was near by or not
Yes I think that would be appropriate for an older child. But a five year old? Children should NOT have the responsibility for their own safety and welfare thrust upon them at age 5. That's not even school aged. It's not their job. They need to be aware and careful but should NOT be expected to look after themselves for that long alone.
I bet if this woman had left her five year old at home alone, or in the car, to go and do some grocery shopping people would be appalled - and rightly so. Well to me this scenario is the same - no, worse. Hundreds of busy strangers, dangers and distractions - recipe for disaster. I almost wish she had left the child at home if she was going to leave her anywhere alone.
samsausage
05-01-2011, 01:33
Just a few observations from everyones arguements....
1. Some of u clearly missed ur calling & should have been cops yourselves, but u never know, u may b old & lonely later in life & have all day to put your noses in other peoples lives & the choices they make
2. Some of u seem to thinku r faultless when it comes to the right decision & childrens safety, never made a bad decision, never disagreed with someone elses perception of right & wrong?....of course u have, but let me guess...your ideas r the correct ones??!!!! If u honestly think u never have or never will make a decision which in hindsight was wrong, u r a liar or just kidding yourself!
3. All the rational normal mothers who make mistakes, have regrets, & obviously r not perfect....good on u! That's how we learn right? But, if u know everything already, I suppose life must b peachy & u must feel like the picture of perfection
4. This may be a 'forum' but I just find it sad that this seems to b one for making mothers who don't share your strict, suffocating, cottonwool ideas for child safety to b inadequate, negligent & welfare based.
5. Everything like this example of supposed 'bad parenting' must b examined individually. We all know children who r more apt in maturity/development than others the same age...if the child felt unsafe at 5yrs, I am sure it would show some signs of distress, I also think it must have been intelligent enough to ask/cry for help in the unlikely event it needed assistance in a public, busy place, wouldn't u think? The only distress the poor child suffered was a woman asking it 20questions before calling the cops to it's mother!!
But so long as u slept with a clear conscious that night, right?!
6. I need to make it clear, I do not condone what choice the mother made leaving her child, nor do I know whether I would allow my twins to b alone like that when they r 5yrs, but I do know everything is dependant on the individual...my twins (obviously the same age) could not b more different in development, maturity & personality. Every decision I make for them will b on a case by case basis taking into account a million different factors for each of them individually. Not...u r five, u r without ur mum so u r in danger & ur mum needs to learn a lesson which today I will b teaching her. Ohhhh, to have so much time on my hands!......hehe
Wow :eek:
1. Actually no, most days I couldn't give two hoots what people do but I'm happy to 'stick my nose in' when a chils is at risk.
2. err....ok
3. you lost me - where exactly did I say I was perfect? What I have done is start a thread about a very dangerous thing I saw a parent do.
4. You know nothing about me, that was an assumption (and a rude one at that) on your behalf.
5. That one gave me a giggle, I asked this little girl one question and the floodgates opened with all the other info spilling out, definately not a case of 20 questions.
6. So you don't agree with what she did........but you're quite happy to attack me for doing the same thing......I get it :confused:
You need to :chillpill: seriously.
I don't know that the OP herself considered it an emergency, more a welfare concern.
Lol thank you, I'm pretty familiar with what constitutes an emergency.
I wonder if all the people who responded defending this womans actions would be so supportive of her if the child had come to harm? What if you were reading a news story that said whilst mum was getting a massage her daughter had fallen off a balcony/been kidnapped etc? Would you still jump to her defence?
Yes, our children can be harmed whilst we are supervising them but why is that a good reason to put them in a risky situation?
trishalishous
05-01-2011, 02:53
I wonder if all the people who responded defending this womans actions would be so supportive of her if the child had come to harm? What if you were reading a news story that said whilst mum was getting a massage her daughter had fallen off a balcony/been kidnapped etc? Would you still jump to her defence?
exactly!
this little girl was so lucky to be safe, thank goodness.
but if she had been killed (gods forbid) I can't believe anyone would support the mothers decision.
(FWIW when the little girl was murdered in the toilet at Livingston in Perth, I heard SO many strangers say how her dad shouldn't have let her use the disabled toilet alone- even though he was 10m away at the time- yet I often see unattended kids in the (ladies) public toilets while their dad waits outside)
zombiekitty
05-01-2011, 07:37
Not different at all in my mind, both acts require an absence of consideration for the consequences, just the same as leaving a child in a hot car for an extended period of time.
As for blaming the establishments that provide play equipment, I think that is absurd. A reasonable person does not expect an unattended piece of play equipment to substitute for adult supervision. .
OP, you did entirely the right thing IMO.
I think they are entirely different.
I, for one, have been sidetracked at home and gone 'crap, I forgot one of the kids is (insert something I shouldn't be leaving them alone flong periods of time).'
But to go 'I am going to go for a massage today and leave my 5 year old daughter in the shopping centre playground (or whatever it was) whilst I do.
I mean, I know how long a massage takes and leaving that child was a pre empted and calculated move unlike a slip of the mind which I am sure we all agree happens to the best of us.
As for your last point, I don't blame establishments that provide play equipment- I blame the parents.
I didn't even mention that in anyof my PP's :confused:.
Fuchsia!
05-01-2011, 08:10
when I was five I played in the park by myself all the time. I was raised very independant and very very wary of strangers and traffic and all the other bad things in the world. I think my parents were extremely trusting but they had also prepared me well. I don't judge her but I realise leaving kids on their own is really frowned on these days and pretty much anyone who let's their kids out of their sight before high school is potentially gonna be given the evil eye.
I agree with what you have written here.
I know a few kids who have been raised like this and they are very very street smart. They are awesome at crossing roads and are very responsible children when you compare them to other children their age.
But in saying that I can't bring myself to raise my kids that way cause im to scared, but I think I am actually making it worse for them by not letting them be street smart.
WorkingClassMum
05-01-2011, 08:21
Do I judge the mother in the OP - well maybe a just a little
However, I only know what is in the opening post and what the OP saw (and no, I am not calling her a liar)
I did not see the mother or the child
I do not know if she is challenged, single, ill, wealthy, addicted, married, has 10 other kids, has family support, works, is a SAHM, - in fact I know little about her.
She may be the most negliegnt mother in the world, she may be having a break-down - she may be a million things
I know even less about the father - becasue he wasn't there either...
I know nothing about her family, her support network
I think the circumstance and events as described are sad, but I wonder what the life journey was of both mother and daughter that led to a little girl being apparently left to her own devices for an apparent inordinate amount of time
Sad really
delirium
05-01-2011, 08:29
Just an observation & personal opinion..
much like ours?? :detective:
It's one thing to trust your 5 year olds level of maturity and another to trust the hundreds of people around her while she is left alone and very vulnerable.
She was able to sit and have a good yarn to OP so her stranger danger must of been tip top! And it's not her responsibility to keep herself safe!
As for child sex offenders, there are snatchers (rarer) and groomers (far more common as it is easier to do with children).
The OP could of been a groomer (sorry OP) having a very friendly and open conversation, finding out everything he/she needed to know. Where mum is, how long she will be gone, that the girl likes to get chocolate ice-cream etc etc.
Calculated unavoidable risks are taken ever day and we can't wrap our kids up in cotton wool - supervising a 5 year old in a public place is hardly doing that!
BabelFish
05-01-2011, 10:29
Couldn't agree more and you're so right. Children should not be expected to protect themselves from predators who, after all, know far more about the world and what they are doing than a five-year-old - no matter how mature and responsible the child might be.
RoarsomeMum
05-01-2011, 10:43
Of COURSE children should not be expected to Protect themselves no matter how mature or responsible they are. Women should also not be expected to never make a bad choice or have an off day or off moment or stuff up ever again simply because they gave birth.
I have no issue with the police being called, we all make decisions based on our own risk assessment and Mum was not there to voice hers so as a passer by who noticed I think the OP did the right thing. - It was based on addressing what she considered dangerous and that matters. We NEED everyone looking out for out kids.
IMO, the post judgments here don't really achieve that, it potentially hurts and alienates mothers rather than helps kids.
If the thread was titled "Do I judge this situation, ah, actually Yes I Do!" I would totally agree with you. I judged the situation the same way.. I just can't bring myself to judge the mum based only on that.. I guess I have made mistakes and am still a damn good Mum so I offer that courtesy to others when safely possible.
3blue&1pink
05-01-2011, 10:55
Wow.. I could never leave any of my children alone like that. Even on days when I have had enough and just want to runaway... I would never ever forgive myself if something did happen! There are way to many sick evil people out there.
The child might have wanted to go to the playground while the mother had a massage.. The child may be very mature and the mother felt comfortable enough to let the child go. I know years ago that could have easily been my mother (not having a massage though). Mum was stressed to the max, dad was an interstate truck driver, she had 4 kids.. Youngest being VERY full on with ASD. I was the oldest so I was always helping mum.. I was mature enough to know right from wrong and mum would have probably left us there. She never did though.. But still the lady we are talking about probably has a lot going on. It's no excuse though.. I'm just thinking that if I was to have a massage and had my nearly 5yo with me I would tell him before hand where we were going and bring along a colour in book to keep him occupied.
I personally would have watched the child until the mum returned just so I know that the girl is safe..
Would the people who think it is ok to let their kids wander around freely please read this link?
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/Pedestrians-and-walking/Pedestrian-guide/Kids-walking.aspx
It really upsets me that "just to be right", you will endanger your child. The one thing that struck me 16 years ago when I was doing my child-care training that children 5 and under have absolutely NO road sense at all.
Hannahly
05-01-2011, 11:45
$100 the mum knew the people in the massage place and this is a regular occurrence for this mum/daughter. Possibly the ladies at the front desk where watching the little girl and reporting to her mum that she was fine, happy, playing and chatting to another mum.
I told my husband of this thread. He was more horrified than me... Anyway, I'm actually going to start a spin off post based on the article link above :)
One of THOSE mums!
05-01-2011, 12:24
I can't believe I missed this thread.
Sends shivers down my spine and brings back horrible memories.
I have seen a child get snatched while walking holding it's mothers hand. The guy dumped the child about twenty seconds later as 4 men were after him.
I will never forget the scream of the mother.
I have also seen a man watching kids at a playground. Another mum who was there called the police and it ended up with the guy being arrested and we later found out it was because he was a pedophile.
The woman who let her child play instances is ignorant and that verges on deliberate child endangerment.
SpecialPatrolGroup
05-01-2011, 12:34
Jadorevous - I apologise for the wording of the post that attributed the comment about blaming the companies that provide play equipment for these instances, to you. It was indeed another poster who made that comment, and at the late hour I didn't go back an address it directly to that poster. Sorry for my slackness and not addressing that comment correctly:gonnagetit:!
mum2bubba
05-01-2011, 12:43
Omg. Anything could have happened. Those places are not daycare centers, there are no people there to mind your kids. I see this happen when we go to Bunnings sometimes. The kids love going on the playground so after we get stuff I let the kids go and play while I sit down and watch them, I have seen other parents leave their kids in there and go off and do shopping. :shame:
Even if I said to Hayley (whos 6) to stay there and where I was and all that, she'd panic.
SpecialPatrolGroup
05-01-2011, 12:45
If the thread was titled "Do I judge this situation, ah, actually Yes I Do!" I would totally agree with you. I judged the situation the same way.. I just can't bring myself to judge the mum based only on that
Well, thats just semantics isn't it? As the primary carer of a child, we are assumed to have capacity to make appropriate decisions to keep our child safe from harm (obviously there are risks to everything), and the mother orchestrated the situation, so judging the situation is judging the person who created the situation, IMO.
tinkerbell87
05-01-2011, 13:03
I haven't read all the posts but a few years ago a little girl was murdered at the toilets I'n a shopping centre. Very tragic and it just goes to show how dangerous it is to leave them.
RoarsomeMum
05-01-2011, 17:20
Well, thats just semantics isn't it? As the primary carer of a child, we are assumed to have capacity to make appropriate decisions to keep our child safe from harm (obviously there are risks to everything), and the mother orchestrated the situation, so judging the situation is judging the person who created the situation, IMO.
I think it is Perfectly acceptable to JUDGE that the PERSON made a bad choice.. a negligent choice in that instance.
I also think it is a Far cry from assuming she is a negligent mother or a bad mother for that one choice. (which is the general theme of the thread..)
delirium
05-01-2011, 18:07
I don't think she's a bad mum, but I do believe she made a poor decision. I am far from perfect, of course no one is. But this wasn't just turning her back for a second. This was consciously leaving a young child alone for a long period of time with poor visability from the shop. What if she had been taken?
bubbella
05-01-2011, 18:30
I have kept reading all of your posts and everyone has raised such valid points.
It's very true that we don't know what events lead to this mother leaving her child unattended. Even though we all seem to agree that this was an inappropriate thing to do and wouldn't do it ourselves it has really got me thinking that perhaps the mother believed it WAS the right thing to do....... (a difficult thought to have for most I know) but I guess we've all been faced with someone saying to us as Mum's "you're doing it wrong" kind of opinion and it's quite possible that this is how this mother would view any disapproval on her actions and argue profusely that this is her way of doing things.
Just another way of looking at it. I can't really say if I would do exactly the same thing as samsausage as each situation is different and how an individual perceives it but if you thought it was the right thing to do then :thumbsup: I would much rather do everything I could in a situation like that then go home and say "I wish I had done this instead"
jaidynsmylilman
05-01-2011, 22:27
The thing that gets me is how easily this child gave out all that information to the OP. A child who has had proper guidence will know by common sense to not disclose too much about themselves to strangers.
The Op certaintly got alot of information out of this lil girl which is kinda scary considering the OP is a stranger. I dont believe she is a bad mother she just made a very selfish mistake so i think its a bit harsh to call her tht.
Also the police shouldnt have been called the OP could have casually went to the shop and said ur daughter is getting a bit agitated about being alone please supervise or she should have gotten centre management to talk tot he mother about the stores policy regarding the playground rules.
SpecialPatrolGroup
05-01-2011, 22:37
But the OP contacted centre security, who are there to carry out centre policy and they said they could do nothing. Her options were to walk away from thic child, possibly leaving her vulnerable to others, to get the mother from the shop, or contacting the police. My conscious would not allow me to walk away from a child who was alone in a public place, and clearly quite trusting of strangers.
trishalishous
05-01-2011, 22:40
Also the police shouldnt have been called the OP could have casually went to the shop and said ur daughter is getting a bit agitated about being alone please supervise or she should have gotten centre management to talk tot he mother about the stores policy regarding the playground rules.
I disagree. if a child is at risk, the police/authoraties should be notified. it may have been a once off, or it could be a regular occurance.
I couldn't live with myself if I saw a child in such a dangerous situation, and did nothing, then saw a week later the child had been snatched and murdered.
if the mother honestly had a momentary bad judgement, the police involvement might scare her into rethinking her actions.
also the OP DID speak to her, an she didn't see what the problem was.
TinyLittleTootsies
05-01-2011, 23:21
OP described the situation clearly. She didn't make a rash choice in calling the police. She described the setting, as in, it was busy, near the opening of the centre, and away and out of view of the massage palar and more so the booth the mother was in. Given she was also there for 45min, I don't think this was a case of the mother having circumstances taken out of her control, like what could have happened if she were a mother who had left her children out front of a shop to duck in there and got stuck in a long line where she could see her children. This child was alone.. no siblings means more of a risk as well.
I always notice right away when a child who is not being supervised by an adult.. wonder how quickly it takes a person who is sinister to realise the same thing considering I am never looking out for it on purpose but just seem to notice. I always stay with a child (as in allow my children to keep playing while I watch) until a parent comes back. I have never called the police because I have never known the situation, but the OP did know, as she talked to the child and made the choice that the situation was too dangerous for her to leave. Who knows, this mother might have told her DD she was going to have a massage but left her there to abandon her. It happens more than you would think. It is true that we cannot judge a situation fully as there are 100's of different possible senario's... but to leave a child who is alone.. that to me would be WRONG WRONG WRONG. In this case it was a happy ending.
The poster saying that the mother could know the workers and they are looking out for her daugher... erm..... is she paying for the massage or the childcare from them. It is not their responsibility even if this were the unlikely senario. OP already said it was not facing the play centre. The workers are not going to watch the child like a mother actively watching her own daughter should. It would be no deterrant for danger.
We are not saying have zero sympathy for the mother, but yes this situation is wrong, and if she doesn't know this, it is good that she is made aware that it is dangerous as she may not know. I do not care how little support, the lack of childcare, her back/neck issues. Many women on here have been against all odds and faced a lot of hardship including all the ones listed and yet still managed to not leave their children in a public place unsupervised while they indulged in a massage. Sure, have sympathy for her life's circumstaces (assuming this could be a possible cause for leaving her DD alone) but what she did is still not ok and I am glad she was made aware of it for her DD sake.
Hannahly
06-01-2011, 09:52
The poster saying that the mother could know the workers and they are looking out for her daugher... erm..... is she paying for the massage or the childcare from them. It is not their responsibility even if this were the unlikely senario. sake.
that was me. I don't disagree with OP actions, just thinking of other options as to why it seemed like the mother just deserted her young daughter. I wrote this as i was imagining a plausible reason... Near me is a bakery and a cafe owned by two different families. The kids roam free between them and the small lane they are on in the middle of the CBd, they also hang out on bikes/scooters around the corner out of sight, and hang in th kitchens (this is the most dangerous spot to me). The parents work but there is someone vaguely watching out for the kids (often it is just the 5 year old daughter when the other children are in school). Different families/cultures have a 'village' concept. I have no clue if this mother knew the workers in the massage place, I just think it is possible and therefore a plausiblereason why she left her daughter to be checked on periodically. I wouldn't do it myself
Would the people who think it is ok to let their kids wander around freely please read this link?
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Travel-and-transport/Pedestrians-and-walking/Pedestrian-guide/Kids-walking.aspx
It really upsets me that "just to be right", you will endanger your child. The one thing that struck me 16 years ago when I was doing my child-care training that children 5 and under have absolutely NO road sense at all.
I don't think I've seen one single person in this thread say that they will leave their child alone in a mall to be "right" :confused:
I've seen many posters trying to curb the lynch mob from this woman that we know nothing about. I think the OP did the right thing by calling the police, 100%. But I don't agree with threads that absolutely tear people to shreds based on one day, one situation at which we weren't present.
My DS is almost 5 and there's no way in hell I'd leave him alone anywhere, except his bedroom while I'm in another room in the house. That doesn't make me above others nor in a position to judge this woman I've never met, never even spoken to.
BabelFish
06-01-2011, 10:20
Also the police shouldnt have been called the OP could have casually went to the shop and said ur daughter is getting a bit agitated about being alone please supervise or she should have gotten centre management to talk tot he mother about the stores policy regarding the playground rules.
Disagree, for following reasons ...
But the OP contacted centre security, who are there to carry out centre policy and they said they could do nothing. Her options were to walk away from thic child, possibly leaving her vulnerable to others, to get the mother from the shop, or contacting the police. My conscious would not allow me to walk away from a child who was alone in a public place, and clearly quite trusting of strangers.
I disagree. if a child is at risk, the police/authoraties should be notified. it may have been a once off, or it could be a regular occurance.
I couldn't live with myself if I saw a child in such a dangerous situation, and did nothing, then saw a week later the child had been snatched and murdered.
if the mother honestly had a momentary bad judgement, the police involvement might scare her into rethinking her actions.
also the OP DID speak to her, an she didn't see what the problem was.
This mother quite obviously, and deliberately, left her child for a LONG time. Even if it were the first time she had done this, a wake-up call from the police would ensure she never, EVER did it again - and that is exactly what should happen.
There aren't many in this thread but there have been some people suggest that a five-year-old, especially a mature one, should somehow bear the responsibility for their own safety by not talking to strangers, say they will go and get their Mum etc (which obviously didn't happen in this case as the child happily talked to the OP, gave out a lot of information and didn't seem wary at all) and it has also been suggested that to expect a five-year-old to be supervised is somehow wrapping them in cotton wool or being overprotective.
I was bathing my one-year-old son last night and thinking about this.
He can sit up, hell, he can confidently stand and pretty much started walking yesterday. He's good at lifting his head out of water and he can crawl and splash in the bath, which is never filled up too much.
Does that mean I should wander off and leave him alone in the bath for 45 minutes? HELL no! Just because he *could* look after himself in there and just because most likely he would be ok due to his physical abilities - that doesn't mean he *should* or that it should be expected of him.
It just shouldn't. One year old alone in bath, five year old alone in shops. Neither of these scenarios is acceptable.
DragonGirl
06-01-2011, 15:56
Wow!
I just stumbled upon this thread and read it from page 1 to 10 (yes I have too much time on my hands!). I was appalled by some peoples comments (generally the ones that seemed to think leaving a child alone for any length of time was ok) and to basically attack the OP. Isn't the point of these threads to get peoples opinions/advice and possibly reasurance? Not to be attacked and put down? You dont have to agree as such but no need to be *****y.
I personally totally agree with what the OP did. The girl could have been taken and then you'd never sleep easy again! I personally wouldn't have called the police, not because I dont think its a good idea but I don't like confrontation and if the police turned up then the mother I could imagine the bollicking she would give me lol. But good on the OP for doing it. I would however stay there until the mother got back......once again I wouldn't talk to her (the confrontation thing again) but I'd be doing alot of talking in my head hahaha.
I would NEVER even let my 7 year old boy out of my sight in the shopping centre. I take him into the womans toilets if DH isn't there and stand outside the cubicle door. I've heard some crazy stories lately about kids being taken from toilets, attacked in the middle of the shopping centre and even a story of a 13 year old girl who was in the car park of the busy shopping centre here while her mum ducked into a shop. She noticed a man walking toward the car so locked the doors, he proceeded to try opening the doors until someone noticed and yelled out "what do you think you're doing?" then he took off! It made me feel bad for leaving my 13 year old and 7 year old in the car alone (even though we lock the doors and tell them to keep them locked, and we're never long). BTW before someone jumps down my throat, I would never leave my 7 year old in the car without his 13 year old brother.
I know everyone is guilty of doing little things like that but honestly a 5 year old girl left alone for 45 minutes can not be looked at in any other way other than a selfish act!
Mysurprisebaby
12-01-2011, 15:06
OP, totally agree with what you did. I can't believe that anyone could think that you did the wrong thing.... :no:
OP- I think you did the right thing with the information you had.
There was some comments that the reception/frontdesk may have been watching and they may have been friends.
There has been comments she may be warn out etc.
There is a million reasons or excuses why she has left her daughter.
The OP was not aware of any of these.
In my opinion it is not safe to leave a young child alone in a shopping centre playground, out of sight of the parent, for 45 mins (this is the situation OP has stated.)
We are travelling and most toilets/showers advise under 10yrs not to be in the toilets with out an adult. This is something I believe in. How old am I allowed to take my boys into the girls loo's for?? lol But really I will play that as they grow up.
I far from cotton wool my boys, but there is some things I wouldnt do and a lot of people I dont trust.
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