who makes the decision?

[Sara's Boys]

In a reent post I found that many people circumsise their boys for cosmetic reasons (to make him look like dad).

And several other posters have mentioned that it is up to bf or dh dp to make the decision.

I have created this thread for those who wish to discuss the decision making process.

I am a big believer that all decisions made that are permanent with respect to your childs body should be made by both parents. To me, having a penis doesn't make you the sole decision maker.

So if you have been in/or are in the situation where you are feeling lke it isn't your choice you can post here. It is your baby too, so your decision.

[Sarie]

We made the choice together. I don't think it's right that only one parent feels they can make a decision. You are a family unit and a team. You made the baby together you should make life choices together also.

[veve]

my DH said that he wanted DS done ... mainly so that he would look like all the males on his side of the family (my brother is not 'done'- all other family members are)

so I showed him the internet sites that I had found .. and said basically .. fine .. I dont want him done .. if you seriously do want DS circ'ed .. a) you have to find a DR ..b) you have to make the appointment and c) you have to take him .. on your own ..

I figured that with those three things to do .. DS would never be circ'ed .... teehee..

DS is now 9 months .. and still has all his bits :D which basically proves to me that DH wasn't all that fussed on the whole thing ... :)

xx
Jen

[MamaSage]

Just a Q, can the father take the baby to be circumcised without the mother being present? Or do both parents have to be there? How does it work?

[veve]

I doubt that both parents have to be present ... I think my SIL took my nephews without her DP .. so I should imagine that the dad could take them ..

xx
Jen

[MamaSage]

So if the mother is adamant that the child will not be done, the father could still do it against her wishes? (Sorry for hijacking..)

[Sarie]

There's no rule about who can take them. But you'd hope that the father would respect the mothers opinion and vice versa.

[tweedledee*tweedledum]

I think it definitely has to be a mutual decision for both parents. It can be very hard if one party if very pro-circ and the other is very anti. A friend of mine has this exact scenario, her husband is Jewish and she is not. Her husband obviously would like his son (not born yet) to be circumcised, however he fully understands that my friend is not keen on it. They have done a lot on researching and have even been to see a moyle (jewish term for person who performs circumcisions traditionally). My friend has said that if they go ahead with it, it will be done by a proper doctor, but she is still 50/50 about it. Luckily her husband is very supportive and has said that if she is not 100% for it, they won't do it. I know it seems easy for him to be like that, but his family are VERY traditional and it will hurt them a lot if he turns his back on this tradition, so it will be massively hard for him if it doesn't happen. At the end of the day, it is the parents who should make the decision, but the outside world is ALWAYS going to be something they are faced with after they make the choice, so they have to be really comfortable with it.

[the_queen]

I researched the information while I was pregnant, I decided absolutely not to circ my son, I was worried my husband would feel differently (he didn't though :D) but for a couple of days while I was thinking how to approach the topic with him, I did consider the "what if he really wants our son to be circ'd?" question.
And I decided that a) there would be an enormous argument about it, I would not back down about this issue - it's not a matter of choosing breastmilk or formula, or choosing public or private school... this is my son's penis we're talking about modifying!!! But also b) if it came right down to the wire, I'd do what Veve did LOL because my husband is just the same, couldn't organise a **** in a brothel :p

So basically, like every other important decision that needs to be made in this family, it would be mine alone - that's not because I'm a controlling hard-headed *****, it's because he's a slack-**** selfish brat.

[Sarie]

it's because he's a slack-**** selfish brat.

Aren't most blokes when it comes to organising something off their own bat?:p

[Pippi Longstocking]

My ex wanted our son circumcised and like Queenie, it wasn't an argument that I was going to lose. I read up on it, found all the literature supporting my belief that circumcision was cruel and unnecessary and presented it to my ex. He still tried to push the issue but couldn't offer a valid reason for going ahead. Straight after my son was born, he brought it up again. I waited for him to leave the hospital and spoke to a (male) midwife. He was great and when my ex came back to hospital, the midwife sat with him and told him how unnecessary it was, how uncommon, how painful and how hard it was to find anyoe who would perform the surgery. I think it helped that it was coming from another man.
Both my little dudes still have intact peepees - I won that round! :yes:

[M O P]

So if the mother is adamant that the child will not be done, the father could still do it against her wishes? (Sorry for hijacking..)

Our son is circumcised and if I remember correctly we both had to sign the form. It was done in the hospital I was staying at, with my husband, so we were both present anyway.

My husband really wanted Hugh done for lame excuses men do- to look like Dad, but I wanted him done as I remembered how my brother suffered as a 5 year old when he needed it done then. So we both agreed.

[SamanthaJane]

I remember studying a huge thing about it in religion, but i couldn't make up my own mind about it. Perhaps because i'm not a man, so i couldn't see the sides of it? I'm not really sure though.

When i met my dp (god knows how it came up in our conversation?) he was against it. He didn't have it done, and he said he'd never have his son done (that was 3 years ago). I heard his point of view, and the other side from my family (they are for it) and i realised that i didn't see a need for it, unless it was medically necessary.

So when the OB asked if i was going to do the procedure i said no. In the end i think it was pretty much dp's choice though :)

[semazani]

My boys are all circumcised. I went with the general way of doing things and I didn't question it at all. That was a huge mistake on my part. :shame:

I firmly believe that neither I nor my hubby had the right to permanently alter our boys bodies without their permission. I cannot do anything to change the circ's, but would never again circ a boy. I don't see where it is up to anyone, but the owner of the body. If they want the procedure done when they are an adult, they are able to have it done and it will be their decision to make.

***offtopic text removed***

[Pixie]

We have spoken about it and agree there is very little we would do without joint consent for our children.

Nothing is certain for us when and if we have a boy, it will be something we decide then.

[AM]

Luckily it was not a choice we disagreed on, but if my dp wanted our sons circed, he would had to have done it over my dead body, i feel THAT strongly about it!:)
Just my mumma bear instinct coming out...

[twolittlegirls]

In a reent post I found that many people circumsise their boys for cosmetic reasons (to make him look like dad).

And several other posters have mentioned that it is up to bf or dh dp to make the decision.

I have created this thread for those who wish to discuss the decision making process.

I am a big believer that all decisions made that are permanent with respect to your childs body should be made by both parents. To me, having a penis doesn't make you the sole decision maker.

So if you have been in/or are in the situation where you are feeling lke it isn't your choice you can post here. It is your baby too, so your decision.

I was one that said I believe it is my husbands decision. I'm not going in to my reasons for this because, like everything on here, you get shot down to quickly and frankly I can't be bothered!

[reAllytee]

Like every decision we made before Boofs birth we decided this together & from now on we make our decisions together.
We are a unit so both of us have to be happy with whichever path we take.
We discuss & argue about various things but when it comes down to it we respect each other enough to take the other side on board & make a decision together that we are both comfortable with. We may both be stubborn & very set in our beliefs but overall we both have to come together to parent the best way we can.

[twolittlegirls]

Sorry girls, that last post came across really *****y. I'm having a bad day. Won't happen again!

(Bloody pregnant hormones!)

[angcaltam]

Just a Q, can the father take the baby to be circumcised without the mother being present? Or do both parents have to be there? How does it work?


I have a friend that has a son and he didn't want him done he had separated from the mother of the child and she moved miles away, he has him in the holidays so 1 holiday he wasn't done and then the next time he had him he was. She went and got him done without even ringing him and asking, but I must say she knew where he stood on the whole thing.

I mainly left it up to my DH to decide but I said that I wasn't really fussed on the idea of getting the boys done. So in the end after lots of research we decided that with our boys they wouldn't get done. But having said that DS1 had to have it done at the age of 4 years for medical reasons, but DS2 is still not done and will not be done unless there is a medical reason. A lot of people tried to tell us that now that DS1 was done that we had to get DS2 done because they couldn't be different ! ! ! This makes me so mad.:mad: :banghead: :devil6: Maybe I should have bleached DS2's hair so he would have the same hair colour as DS1.:laughing:

[angcaltam]

Sorry girls, that last post came across really *****y. I'm having a bad day. Won't happen again!

(Bloody pregnant hormones!)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on here. And I say get everything off your chest while you can still blame the pregnancy hormones.:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

[Sara's Boys]

Thats cool One little girl.

I wasn't referring to just one person.

I know many people who have just let their husband/partner make the decision, and I just don't agree that having the penis in the relationships gives you the right to make a life changing decision.

I will not shoot any one down any way, I am only interested in hearing people's reasoning for this cosmetic surgery and hoping that maybe some one who is reading these posts realises that it is a joint decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.

It isn't an anti circ thread. But I have known women who have regretted not being informed and letting their partners make the decision. I think there are many women who do this because they just don't think that it is their choice too. Thats what I am interested in.

So feel free to leave your opinion and it will be respected.

PS
Totally undersatnd bout the hormone thing! It's my excuse and I am sticking with it!

[serendipity22]

Its much better than parents make joint decisions than just one deciding.

I don't quite understand why its a parental decision at all though. Men only spend a small part of their life cared for by their parents. At age 16 or whatever it is, they can choose their own surgery etc. Because circumcision lasts a lifetime surely circumcision should be the decision of the person who lives in the body.

Imagine an adult man being forced to undergo circumcision because his elderly parents think he should. This is absurd, though the result of circumcising a child is the same.

Maybe a man didn't want to look like his father or whatever. If he wants to be circumcised, he can choose it at 16 or whatever the age of consent for operations is.

[lukaelmo]

DP and I share the dude, and I respect his input, but in all honesty, decisions made concerning him are made by me.

That does no mean DP doesn't get a look in, I listen, and if he is right, then I go with him.

But I am usually right :D .

Anyway, when it came to circ, I just said no. DP asked why, and I said it was unnecessary, and he said "oh okay", and that was that.

[sam's mum]

I am HUGELY against circ, and my husband is very much for. He had to be done at about two because of phimosis and wanted to get Sam done early so that he wouldn't have to be done later. I told him that circ is not the first treatment used anymore and so that is no reason. He then said that Sam will get a lot of UTIs. I said - not necessarily, he is more likely to get a complication from the circ than a UTI. Then I showed him pictures on the internet of bubbas being circ'ed and told him that there is no way that my little boy is having that done. He still didn't agree but conceded that by simply doing nothing I would get my way. and so I did nothing, and got my way. He wasn't incredibly persistent after seeing the pictures though, I think it was more the pressure that he was getting from his family about it.

[Sara's Boys]

It must have been so hard for the 2 of you having conflicting beliefs, Sam's mum.

Family pressure and silly traditional rasons are the hardest to understand. I dont know what I would have done if my husband had wanted to permanently change my son's naturally wonderful body, it certainly would have made things really difficult, but there is no way any one would be able to remove any part of my sons body, it would be over my dead body!

[sam's mum]

It was hard to have different beliefs at the beginning, but he hasn't been pushing it since he saw the pictures. If it was a source of ongoing conflict I think it would a splinter in our marriage though.

***response to deleted post removed***

Ultimately it is up to the parent though, and they will do what they think is best...

[Issey]

I told my DH over my dead body and showed him horrible pictures of the procedure, he didn't argue.

[xkwzit]

We have drifted off topic and that can be dangerous (especially here). This thread was specifically started to give ppl a forum for dicussing how the decision should be made. Please do not take it off that topic. Feel free to start a new thread to discuss ppl's opinions of those who choose to circ, but do not hijack this one.

I have deleted the off topic posts

Thanks

[Gummibear]

Regarding how the decision gets made, ours has been one of complete loggerheads.

My husband is adamant we will get it done. I'm dead against it. The only reason he wants it done is so the baby will look like his father. It doesn't help that DHs parents are also pushing for this outcome. It also didn't help when the obstratrician basically said it was a personal decision with no major pros or cons leaving the path wide open for an excuse for DH to get it done.

DH is extremely stubborn and will not back down on this decision but I take heart from the advice that if I leave the logistics up to him, it will unlikely not get done - he is a typical procrastinating male after all!

From my point of view, the only way we are not continually arguing about this is because I have made a "deal" on the back of it. I said that if there was going to be a circumcision, then our son was not going to play rugby league, DHs favourite sport that he plays himself. Apologies to all you rl fans out there, I love to watch the game, but the culture at a local level is a bit rough for my liking - always fights, brawls, drunken accidents etc, and DH has broken both legs and arms in his time of playing. I kind of figure that the circumcision is the safe option out of the two.

Still, with 2 weeks to go, this issue may never come up because I might have a girl!:fingerscrossed:

[serendipity22]

For making joint decisions how about DeBonos 6 thinking hats?

White for gathering information.
Red for feelings.
Yellow for logical positives.
Black for logical negatives.
Green for new ideas.
Blue for an overview of the thinking process.

You can through hats in sequence together, or you can jump around from hat to hat. Used well they can enhance decision making.

As for 'baby looking like his father' this is a humorous take on this in another thread. I think its a clear sign a man is being irrational. Its very common and I suspect many infant circumcised men feel very uncomfortable about what has happened to them (though they won't even admit it to themselves.)

There seem to be some cases when men in this situation have changed their mind
after seeing a circumcision (which helps to make conscious what they are so uncomfortable about). There is an educational video on a Canadian site which adamant men can see.

As part of 'white hat', I consider watching such a video useful in gathering information.

Gummibear, I won't put the link here, but I will give it you if you (or anyone else)
PMs me.

[MotherNurture]

DH is extremely stubborn and will not back down on this decision but I take heart from the advice that if I leave the logistics up to him, it will unlikely not get done - he is a typical procrastinating male after all!

Unfortunately, many mothers have learned that men will often surprise you in this regard, with this particular issue. For myself, personally, if DH had been adamant and was unwilling to research or listen to reason, I would stand my ground the same as I would if he was insisting my daughter be cut. I see circumcision as harm, and one of my most sacred duties as a mother is to protect my child. If my husband wanted to hurt our child in another way, without need or cause, I would leave him before I'd allow him to abuse him/her. Allowing my baby to be circumcised 'match dad' at his illogical, ego-driven insistance would have been a deal breaker for me. The only fair compromise is to let the owner of the penis make the decision for his own body as a consenting adult.

Fortunately, even though my dh was circumcised it was enough for him to know circumcision is painful and unnecessary. He never had a drive to have him cut so their penises would look alike in that one respect. Had he pushed the issue I couldn't have in good conscience, knowing what I knew, allowed it to be done. My protective, momma-bear instinct was (and is still, to this day) fierce.

Jen