View Full Version : Feeling like the worst mother in the world...
iamstephyc
02-09-2006, 14:55
I feel awful! I have just finished putting all of my daughters (both of them) toys away in the cupboard where they cannot have them. And I mean all of them.
My girls are 4 and 5 and cannot keep their room clean. They literally have everything all over the floor every day. I am always telling them to put their toys away, pick their clothes up etc etc.
They go into their room to clean it because it is a disgusting mess, and somehow it ends up worse! I have already put most of their toys away a couple of months ago to try to drive my point home. I have been going crazy over it for months and feel like all I'm doing is rousing on them for not cleaning up.
Today I had enough. I gave them a time frame of an hour to clean up their room and told them if they didn't do it, I would be putting all their toys away. So what did they do, nothing. they went outside and played, got more stuff out and made more mess. So and hour later, I went in and packed up EVERYTHING! All I left them was their one bedtime teddy each. And they screamed! They were sobbing hyserically (sp) by the time I finished, and I was so tempted to leave something for them but I didn't.
I told them that they now have to earn their toys back They can do this by keeping their room clean for 3 days in a row, then they may pick on e toy to have back (ie the my little ponies). Then they have to keep them clean as well for 3 days in a row or they will be going away again.
I know I've blabbed on for a while (and thanks for sticking with me if you have :laughing: ) but my question is this:
Is this too harsh? Am I going too far?
Any comments and suggestions would be great.
Thanks again.
FourAngelKisses
02-09-2006, 15:09
No, you're not being harsh at all. I have done the exact same thing, only I went a bit further, lol.
I had spent a full week asking my kids (6 and 7 at the time) to clean their room, they refused to do it. So I told them that if they didn't do it, then I will do it and everything will be going in the bin, xbox, tv, books....the lot. All they would have left would be their bed and their chest of drawers. They refused to do it, so I went and piled everything out by the front door ready to go in the bin. They realised I was serious and started crying about it all. So I told them that if they wanted it back, they had to help me tidy the room and put everything away. And they did.....it took them 3hrs but they helped. And it stayed clean for the next two weeks.
Another trick is to put everything in garbage bags then drop it in the wheelie bin, then when they aren't around, move it into the garden shed or garage. Let them stew over it for a few days then give it all back.....as long as they earn it.
Like Dr Phil says, every child has a currency, for young kids, it's their toys. If they really want something back, they will have to earn it back with good behaviour.
iamstephyc
02-09-2006, 15:12
[quote=angel_kisses9798;616979]
Another trick is to put everything in garbage bags then drop it in the wheelie bin, then when they aren't around, move it into the garden shed or garage. Let them stew over it for a few days then give it all back.....as long as they earn it.quote]
You're sneaky. I like it!! :laughing:
babylover111
02-09-2006, 15:20
my mum STILL does this to me if i leave things out in the family room, but instead of earning it back with good behaviour i have to BUY it back with money :laughing:
FourAngelKisses
02-09-2006, 15:21
my mum STILL does this to me if i leave things out in the family room, but instead of earning it back with good behaviour i have to BUY it back with money :laughing:
I can see how that would work for someone our age, LOL.
indigoin0z
02-09-2006, 15:24
some people would say you are being harsh.... but not me..:thumbsup:
start them young i say, then its not a shock to them when all of a sudden things are expected of them later.. + it certainly makes parents job alot easier, if habits are already set... of course they still wont like it when they get older, but they will be so set in doing what works in their household they will sulk their way thru it - just like poor mummy & daddys have to do with their work :yes:
good luck
& whatever you do;
dont give in mid cycle/punishment,
if sometimes you think something was a little harsh, just dont repeat it to its severity, but NEVER back out half-way! :shame:
I've tried this and it works wonderfully until one day a couple of weeks ago they started emptying all their toys on the floor and when I went in after numerous warnings to pack it all awy THEY HELPED ME PACK IT UP !!!!! What the heavens do you do then????
FourAngelKisses
03-09-2006, 11:24
I think they want us to "help" because then it doesn't seem like such a big job to them....and they get to spend time with mum too.
SilverStarfish
03-09-2006, 11:29
Friends of mine did exactly the same thing after their two decided it wooud be fun to throw toys and clothes out their window and down the back stairs....
The kids came home to a totally bare room. Just their beds and a pillow :laughing:
It sure got their attention and things never went flying out the window again!
FourAngelKisses
03-09-2006, 11:31
Friends of mine did exactly the same thing after their two decided it wooud be fun to throw toys and clothes out their window and down the back stairs....
It sure got their attention and things never went flying out the window again!
LOL, I remember when we lived in a 2 storey unit, my brother and I thought it would be fun to throw about 200 paper planes out the window. Mum and dad made us pick them all up. We never did it again after that.
Another trick is to put everything in garbage bags then drop it in the wheelie bin, then when they aren't around, move it into the garden shed or garage. Let them stew over it for a few days then give it all back.....as long as they earn it.
This is a good idea if you remember to move them! My SIL and her brother must have been naughty Xmas day, so their father did this, but forgot to take them out before the garbos came........
FourAngelKisses
03-09-2006, 12:50
oops..........
iamstephyc
04-09-2006, 13:56
Thanks guys. Ive been sticking with it and it seems to be going okay. Even though they still manage to make a mess it's not half as bad as before, and they are cleaning it up themself. Yay! :smiliedance:
Our 3 year old hasn't got any toys in his bedroom. Only out in the lounge room. If he's being naughty or not sharing than we take either his favourite toy of the moment or the one he won't share and 'throw it away'. Though we actually put it in a box in the back room that he can't see and once he starts behaving again he can have them back.
Nope, you are not too harsh. I am about to start the "24 hour basket". Toys left lying around at 6pm are to be put in it. If they are still there the following night they go in the bin.
Kaycee
To be perfectly honest I think that it is a little unrealistic to expect a 4 and 5 year old to clean up their own room without any help, let alone keep it clean. My 11 year old still needs help when his room is a big mess, he just gets overwhelmed and doesn't know where to start. I get him started, and then off he goes. It might be helpful to be in the room and give plain directions to them when you want them to clean up. I put labels or piactures on the toy crates so they know what to put where. We also have 5 mins per day where we all spend time putting away in the bedrooms so the mess doesn't get so unmanageable. The fact is that they are kids, and they don't see it as mess, they just see it as fun. I would rather they spend the time exploring and creating and have to clean up the mess, than them sitting in front of the TV or something.
I am actually shocked that there are so many people that think that lying to their kids is a good way to discipline them. :o
I am actually shocked that there are so many people that think that lying to their kids is a good way to discipline them. :o
Unfortunately I can't afford to actually toss out his toys. But he certainly starts behaving as soon as I threaten to throw out his toy.
FourAngelKisses
04-09-2006, 17:27
I wouldn't call it lying. I think it is teaching them that if they don't respect their belongings and our rules, then they will lose their belongings.
I wouldn't call it lying. I think it is teaching them that if they don't respect their belongings and our rules, then they will lose their belongings.
Exactly. :yes:
Baby Girl
05-09-2006, 12:56
I think you have been fair. 3 days is not a very long time for them to earn things back and it puts the responsibility on them to keep the earned toys out of the cupboard.
I can imagine how hard it was for you with them crying for their toys while you were sticking to your guns. You did the right thing by following through completely with it, if you had left even one thing out they would know it would only take some more tears to get more toys back, rather than keeping the room clean.
I wouldn't call it lying. I think it is teaching them that if they don't respect their belongings and our rules, then they will lose their belongings
If you take the toys and say you are going to throw them away, and then don't throw them away then that is lying. The day will come when they know that you have been lying to them all this time and that you won't actually throw the toys away, and then how will you get them to respect their things? Isn't it easier to just teach how and why we respect our toys in the beginning?
FourAngelKisses
05-09-2006, 14:45
Well, it works for me. I've tried teaching them to respect their toys and it doesn't work. Taking them off them does though.
iamstephyc
08-09-2006, 10:57
It has been going really well. :smiliedance:
they have earned back a toy each, and are keeping on top of the mess. I'm so proud of myself for sticking to it. :D
Can I? - I need to say here, that I understand that they are only 4 and 5, but I feel that if they don't learn now, to look after their things, then it will be harder for them to lear later. And I do give them directions. It's when I say to them, "put your My Little Pony's on the shelf" and they don't do it, and haven't done it an hour later, that it becomes a problem. I don't think that I am expecting too much of them. If my 3 year old boy can put his cars on the shelf when he's asked, then they girls shold be able to do it too.
FourAngelKisses
08-09-2006, 10:59
Can I? - I need to say here, that I understand that they are only 4 and 5, but I feel that if they don't learn now, to look after their things, then it will be harder for them to lear later.
Totally agree there, it's never too young for them to learn. Glad to hear it's all going well, thanks for the update!!
MrsMiggins
08-09-2006, 11:10
No, it's not too harsh, but I do know exactly how your daughters feel. I was terrible at cleaning my room when I was a kid. And I mean terrible! It drove my mum crazy! And we had more than a few stand-down arguments about it. My mum used to try all sorts of punishments and rewards to try to get me to keep my room clean - all to no avail. I'm telling you now, your daughters just don't see what the big deal is about keeping things tidy, so they don't see the point in cleaning things up!
I am pretty good at keeping things in order now (despite the world's laziest, messy husband!!) and I was trying to think why that is.
When I lived on my own, my house was always immaculate. Two reasons for this - Firstly I know how much I despise cleaning, so I just never let it get to a state where I knew I was going to hate to have to clean it. This point is not going to be much help to your daughters at their age - they won't understand this until they're older.
But secondly (and this will help!) I actually had pride in something that was my own. Yes, I did consider my bedroom my own when I was a kid, but I don't think you really see it that way when you're young. What may help is to really make your daughters think that this space is their own. Let them help paint the walls, or make something for their room. Let the rearrange it however they want - whatever helps. Let them decide where it is their toys should go. Then make sure they know they need to put them back wherever it is they have decided they belong once they're done.
my dd has the same problem, she canīt keep her room tidy.
my ds can- no probs.
with dd i have to tell her step by step. i say "first you pick up all books, then this and then that." once she gets instructions it works, i think she is just overwhelmed by the whole thing....(mess :) )
maybe your girls are the same...:rolleyes:
hope that helps
In my opinion, i totally agree with taking the toys away and them being earnt back.
As for lying to them, i dont think they are being lied to. I think they are being taught to respect their belongings and the rules.
I also think that doing this with the toys is also based on age appropriate discipline - and i think that at the age of 3 (my dd is 3), one of the only things you can do to get a child of this age to listen (pay attention) is to take the toy until the behavior improves or do as they are told.
IMO - i must say that if my daughter wasnt tidying her own room 'completely' by the age of 11, there would be some serious problems in my house :laughing:
She has to tidy her toys at the end of the day - i do help her, to get it started, but she is normally pretty good and will do it.
So... i dont think your discipline is to harsh at all.....i say Well Done for standing your ground - it can be so hard sometimes with these little ones with huge attitudes (especially at this age) :laughing: :laughing:
They go into their room to clean it because it is a disgusting mess, and somehow it ends up worse!
I gave them a time frame of an hour to clean up their room and told them if they didn't do it, I would be putting all their toys away.
I know I've blabbed on for a while (and thanks for sticking with me if you have :laughing: ) but my question is this:
Is this too harsh? Am I going too far?
Sorry if you took offence to my post, I never intended it that way. What I have quoted above is what you wrote in your OP and what I was replying to. It seemed like you just sent them into their room which was in a big mess, and expected them to clean it, and when they didn't you took their toys away. Then you asked for opinions. So I gave mine.
If you choose to discipline your children by taking their toys away and then making them earn them back, then that it fine, it is your choice. If it works for you then so be it. It is fair if you explain how it works to your kids and they know the consequences of their actions. Whether or not it is necessary or appropriate is a matter of opinion and will vary from person to person.
I will stick by my comment about lying to your children. If you tell them that you have thrown their toys away and haven't done it, then it is lying (there is no arguing with that), and sets a really bad example for the kids.
IMO - i must say that if my daughter wasnt tidying her own room 'completely' by the age of 11, there would be some serious problems in my house :laughing:
Having a messy bedroom is not a serious problem. It never will be. Your kids wagging school or taking drugs are serious problems. Your kids being sick is a serious problem. Failing at school, having a bad attitude, being disrespectful....serious problems. My 11 year old may not be so good at cleaning, but he is great in most other areas. I guess its all about priorities when it comes to discipline. Tidy bedrooms are just not even on our radar.
Grizabella
08-09-2006, 13:55
I do beleive that teaching your children to live in a clean tidy environment is an important thing - and start as early as possible (ie when you know they can understand it) At 5 yrs old I used to clean my room. I was also helping with the dishes, dusting and vacuuming too. I enjoyed it at the time - it made me feel like I was helping. I wasn't a slave I was just taught early on to respect our home.
I think being 11 and not being able to clean your room is a problem. Understandably at 11 it will get messy, but an 11 yr old needs to learn to look after their belongings properly and be able to tidy it up. A bedroom is a child's own personal space, if they cannot learn to look after it, what are they going to be like when they get older and have their own house? If they can't look after a small area in a bedroom, what state would their own house be?
Keeping bedrooms and houses tidy is the first step to good hygeine and standard of living. It is also a way to teach children to have respect, for themselves, their parents, and their things.
Fair enough. I never said that my son did not know how to clean, and I certainly never said that our home is unhygenic. All I said was that I don't leave my son to totally clean his own room when it is in a very messy state. He shares his room with one of his younger brothers, and they all play in there, so all the mess is not his. Once it is a huge mess, I help them all to pitch in and clean it.
My son is also expected to help around the house. He dries dishes, picks up his room, makes his bed, feeds the cat, helps with cooking, sets the table, puts out the garbage etc. He will be able to look after himself just fine. My son also knows that if he doesn't look after his things then they will get broken or lost, because I have allowed this to happen in the past. He is very careful with the things that are important to him, because he understands the result if he is not. That is what happens in the real world after all.
Immaculata
08-09-2006, 17:13
Your son sounds very well adjusted! I like your approach Can I? - don't stress the soft stuff, work on the hard stuff. Tidiness is a great thing to encourage in our children, but to belabour the point only creates conflict, IMO. I hope that my kids pitch in as much as your kids when they are bigger, at the moment we are still working on the basics - bringing their dishes to the sink, brushing teeth, packing up toys, picking up dirty clothes and taking them to the laundry etc...
I also agree with you Can I, you have to pick your battles!
I know we are only talking about littlies here, but from my own experience - I was a very messy child / teenager, really bad and my mum was (is) a neat freak, it really caused so many problems between us, like the "mess" permeated everything in our relationship.
I moved out of home into a unit of my own and I suddenly became anal! :o Now I am a total clean / neat freak - just like my mum! :o :o :o
Pippi Longstocking
09-09-2006, 07:33
Can I?, I really like your approach too. My 8yo son in particular needs to be supervised when tidying. If I say "go and clean your room", he will do everythig in his power to get out of it. He will all of a sudden "need" to go to the toilet. Then he will sit on his bedroom floor and play with the mess. He will fight with his little brother and try to blame him for the mess in the hope that it gets him out of having to clean it. Eventually, he'll do a half-hearted bodgy job - stuff everything in the toybox (toys, clothes, cups, rubbish...).
But if I go in and say "Jake, we need to tidy your room. Can you please pick up all of the cars and put them on the shelf while I sort out your clothes" he'll be fine and do it quite happily. I think he just gets overwhelmed and needs it broken down into small tasks.
I really do think it is a bit much to expect a 4 and 5 yo to clean a whole room - particularly if they make mess like my lot do. :detective:
Mumshmum
09-09-2006, 16:28
My littlies chose a day when i was particularly cranky to tip all of their toys out of the boxes onto their bedroom floor. I kept giving them ulimatums if they didn't tidy up, and they did nothing. In the end, I realised that they just didn't know where to start. I then taught them while we were cleaning up together. Their toys are now placed in boxes with photos of what is inside, and this seems to help. (i think you mentioned something like this Can I. )
Some days, i grab a washing basket and tell them to grab anything that doesn't belong in the family room and put it in the basket. we put it away together later.
angel_one
02-10-2006, 21:53
arhhhhh, toys!! what a lovely part of being a parent, i have a 3 year old, a 9 month old and one on his way, and thankfully about 6 months ago i found the key to the toys being put away each day!
the bye bye box! - it is a huggies nappie box with "bye bye box" and "all items within this box shall remain here for 1 week" the message is more of a way to remind dh and my self of the conditions, but dd knows what it is, and at anytime that she is told to clean up her toys, she will get to the count of 3 before we start to pick up toys and the deal is what ever dh or my self pick up (if she is not helping) it goes in the box! and is left up on the top shelf where she cant reach - even with her chair!!!.
the other thing we have going, (which is more of a way of keeping older kid toys out of ds reach) is all the toys are sorted in to groups like kitchen stuff, baby doll stuff, peek a boo blocks/balls, ect..... then they are all put in seperate containers (which are slowly becoming actually plastic containers rather than the nappie boxes!) and then put on a shelfing unit, with the baby safe down the bottom and big kid stuff up top. the deal is that only one box at a time is to be played with (although that can be the tough part, but we are working on it)
angel_one
02-10-2006, 21:57
oh i forgot to add, the only toys in my dds room, are her dolls furniture (that is just to big and bulky to fit in the lounge room with everything else) all other toys (to save on the fights that i see occuring in the near future , over whose toys are whos) are in the lounge, where we do all of our living!
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