To circumcise or not to circumcise???

[bec2bmum]

We've had a few 'discussions' about this topic recently (in case we have a boy) and I tend to lean towards no, but DH is definately for the procedure because he would like his son to 'look like him dowstairs'. Hmmm, am a bit stuck. I know most of the pros and cons but I would like your opinion too! :confused:

[FourAngelKisses]

Sorry, I don't think that "I want him to look like me" is a good enough reason. I think it should only be done for medical reasons. I mean, if your DH had a third nipple or something, would he want your son to have cosmetic surgery done so that he looked the same? I doubt it.

[aardvark]

Only for medical reasons here if it were ever to be done, and only if all other alternatives had been tried first.

DH is done, and hates his mother for having it done when he was too small to protest. There's no way either of us would inflict that on DS.

[Fitmumma]

Me & DH had the exact same battle before my DS3 was born, I am totally against it & never had my DS1 or DS2 done (first marriage).
My DH said the same as yours & my response was that they were hardly going to be comparing you know whats when my DS was old enough to understand that they looked different.
We had some rather big shall I say......arguements over this.
I refused to go against my moral beliefs & could never have put my precious baby through that no matter what my DH wanted it wasnt gonna happen!!!
Basically......I WON!

[bella_angel_13]

i do not believe that is a good excuse to have a circumision. i too would only get it done for medical reasons.

[mich71]

most of them are done for medical or religus belifes sorry not much help as all my boys are complete

[Sara's Boys]

Its ******** and uneccessary to do this to a baby, unless there is medical need. He will be 1/2 your son, and you just have say, no way, our baby will stay the way he is. Thanks very much. Just because he has a penis, doesn't make it his decision. I have 1 son and another coming and would never dream of altering them in any way.and i know people who resent their parents for circ'ing them. They have pain and discomfort instead of pleasure with sexual intercourse. Check out the threas in parenting section under circumcision. You will be able to look at some opinions. I know there are a few guys who have posted about the issue. You wouldn't do it to your daughter....why is ok to do it to as boy?

[Roxy]

I have to agree that the arguement that "I want him to look like me" is feeble. He will already share some of the same characteristics of his father - it could be eye shape, nose shape, hair or eye colour etc.

Surely, those type of things should be far more important to be reflected back at you when looking at your child than the fact that he is also circ'ed?

DH and I agreed 100% that our son would not be done, and he isnt. I am proud, that as parents, we make this decision to leave our son intact, and to allow him the pleasures as an adult that I have read an intact penis offers.

Unless medically required, I would be asking my partner to come up with a more convincing argument than "so he looks like me" for circumcision of my son.

[mothergoosewannabe]

My hubby and i also had the discussion about whether we would have it done if we had a son. I could see my hubby's reasoning and i had to see an adult male go through having a circ done at about the age of 50 due to an incident. We ended up having our son done and it is not a bloody ( as in blood loss) procedure anymore. My son was done at about 4 weeks old and it took about half an hour and he was back with hubby and i. He was a little unsettled for a day or two but after that was good. I agree that there have been some horror stories about when it has gone wrong etc but all i can suggest is if you are going to do the circ, make sure you go to a dr that has done them before. Ask around and find out others that have had it done and are happy with the drs procedure. This was our choice and we did not do it to be ********. When my son is older and does ask us why we will explain our reasons for doing it. If he wishes we did not so it, I will live with that knowledge. But until that day comes(or if it ever does) i am satisfied that we made a choice. There will always be people whom disagree, which is their right but respect mine as i will respect yours not to circ.

[semazani]

My sons were circ'd due to my lack of knowledge unfortunately. I would never have it done on any other boys.

It isn't the choice of the parents as it is not their body. If a permanent procedure is to be done on a person then that person should make the decision.

As far as the "I want him to look like me" line of thinking. Unless you are going to go around comparing your penises later in life then really what's the point.

[rynosmum]

Hubby and I had the same conversation and line of thought when our DS was born. We asked the paed for a referral to someone who could do the procedure and he too asked what our reasons were (those being the same as yours).

His response was that with 9 out of 10 boys don't have it done now and if that was our reasoning, it would in fact be more important for our son to look like all of the other boys in the locker room, rather than Daddy.

Fair call we thought so we didn't speak about it again. What a relief!

[Can I?]

I have three intact sons with a circumcised Dad, and to be honest, the fact that they look different has never come up. Little boys genitals look different to their Dad's for a long time anyway, so how is circumcising going to change that? And what is wrong with just explaining it if they do ask?

[HSE & J's Mumma]

I never had to give a reason to my pead surgeon as to why my husband & I made the decision to have our boys done, nor do I think its anyones business, as they seem to think its there right to tell you what you are doing is wrong (which is there opinion!)
I am a registered nurse so my choices were fully informed.

As far as looking like dad, well, its something YOU BOTH need to work out, you dont need all our opinions on top of what your leaning towards, its certainly a hot topic though to cut or not to cut.

[reAllytee]

You both have to be happy with your decision just like any of the choices you will make through your parenting lives.
We did circ we both had our reasons we both discussed it & made the choice we were happy with.
No one can judge us because the only person who can ever do that is DS & i can say that with the way we will parent & raise him i highly doubt that him being circ'ed will be an issue but time will tell ....

[RedPanda]

Well put Allyoo! By the way, I love your sig. It says it all really :thumbsup:
I didn't circ my son. We didn't really ever consider it because it just seemed so unnecessary in our case - that doesn't mean that's the right choice for everyone.
I guess you just need to make sure that you are completely comfortable with your decision (it's not the kind of procedure you can get reversed!:p )

[WeThree]

If the only reason your DH has for getting it done is because he wants them to look the same then I would be telling him that it is not a good enough reason.

1/ When your son is smaller, do you really think he will notice, or care, that his dads penis looks a tiny bit different from his?

2/ By the time he is old enough to notice, he will also be old enough to explain to him why they look different

3/ He still wont care anyway if they look different

4/ When he is old enough, how often will he be seeing his dads willy anyway?

[pookiesossige]

Putting a child through something as horiffic as being cir'cd (beacuse it is) so that they look the same as dad is not good enough in my books. I do not have the right, nor should I, to have cosmetic surgery carried out on my son's penis. The foreskin has a purpose for being there to start with and there is not one medical association in the country that recommends it be routinely removed. Have a good squiz at some of the threads around the hub on this- there's some good info to be found.
Good on you for asking around and doing what you can to make an informed decision!! That's what a great mother does for her son and you should be congradulated :yes: :thumbsup:

[bec2bmum]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed with all the info you've all posted!
DH and I are still at a standstill and can't agree on a decision..... time will tell.
Thanks everyone!

[serendipity22]

Thats cool that you are at a standstill. If the standstill lasts long enough, your boy
(if its a boy) will be old enough to make up his own mind.

Has DH watched any circumcision videos? Thats been known to turn some fathers off the idea.

Maybe this website will give you some ideas.
http://www.circumstitions.com/Itsaboy.html

Maybe it will be a girl anyway.

Hey, its fantastic you are having a child.

[luckie_me]

We didnt get Jackson done we believe that if something isnt broken u dont need to fix it and that how we looked at it!

[bigglet]

I didn't really have an opinion on this until my friend who is having a boy mentioned she was going to get him circumsized so out of curiosity I asked why.

She used to work in respite care and in elderly nursing homes and she said that the amount of infection and pain she saw them in was awful simply because they were not able to "clean" themselves properly and needed care to do so.
I know people say that if you teach your boys to be clean and how to clean it then there shouldn't be any problems - but in her experience she told me that she'd seen teenage boys getting them done because of infection. I don't know how common this is but having a good friend with this experience has opened my eyes somewhat.

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

I didn't really have an opinion on this until my friend who is having a boy mentioned she was going to get him circumsized so out of curiosity I asked why.

She used to work in respite care and in elderly nursing homes and she said that the amount of infection and pain she saw them in was awful simply because they were not able to "clean" themselves properly and needed care to do so.
I know people say that if you teach your boys to be clean and how to clean it then there shouldn't be any problems - but in her experience she told me that she'd seen teenage boys getting them done because of infection. I don't know how common this is but having a good friend with this experience has opened my eyes somewhat.

ok heres my experience...my DH is circumcised; my DSS is not...mother thought ******** etc...however she hasnt taught him to be clean (or even go to loo properly...DSD wipes his bottom at home...but that another tale) and boy is he stinky!! My DH the other day when they stayed witnessed this himself and all the icky stuff and decide to have a man to boy (DSS is 4) about how to wash properly...prob is he has different looking penis and dspite trying to fake the foreskin DSS picked up why is yours different to me...
ok so whats my point...hmmm well I think I can see why people would do to be same as dad and that I wholeheartedly agree about the cleanliness thing...and from my experience here and also more 'adult' experience if you gonna leave the foreskin be please I implore you teach your little boys how to be clean!!!!!!!!

[MotherNurture]

Hygiene is important, regardless of circumcision status. I've cared for the elderly as a nursing home cargiver too...and women can get sore and yeasty too if they're neglected. Fortunately, 'peri-care' is easy, man or woman, circumcised or not.

To care for an intact child before puberty, wipe off the outside of the penis like you would a finger, no manipulating or retracting is required. After puberty, and if he can do so comfortably, all he needs to do is Retract, Rinse, Replace. That's it. Brushing teeth or tying shoes is far more complicated. I always joke that you may have to remind a boy to wash behind his ears, but you will probably never need to remind him to handle his penis, lol! ;)

Jen

[AimeeB]

I remember telling my mil that our first bub was a boy and the first thing she said to me was "will you be getting him done?"I looked at her and thought WHAT IS SHE TALKING ABOUT?and then it clicked.Dh is circumcised but my 2 brothers are not and I always remember why mum told me she didn't have it done-years ago working as a nurse in a surgery she used to have to hold the bubs down whilst the procedure was done.She said it was horrific and they were screaming etc.I'm sure they have newer methods but friends of ours had their 3 sons done and the youngest (born same time as our dd2) had heaps of probs afterwards with infections etc.Mum has also witnessed a doctor cut a little more than he should have off!Our ds is now nearly 5 and has never once asked if his is different to dad's and if he did we would just say that all penises are different.I honestly think boys who have been circumcised these days would be the odd one's out as no-one really does it very much anymore.i personally just think it's unneccasary and like all genitals it needs to be kept clean regardless of whether or not it's circumcised.I'm sure guy's who are circumcised still get infections!!For us NO WAY!I've heard too many bad stories from people having their sons done than not!
Me~28
DH~29
DS~09/12/01
DD1~16/09/03
DD2~12/10/05
#4 EDD~22/03/07:yelclap:

[stellarella]

Its one of those things that you just need to decide as a couple! And parents who don't circ rarely agree with parents who do (and vice versa).

Just bare in mind that you making a major decision on your sons behalf and you have to ask yourself is it your right to make that decision for him.

Seeing as you asked for our opinions I will give mine....always happy to give my opinion LOL:D

I think its a horrible, unnecessary procedure and no I would not do it unless a serious medical reason arose which indicated to me that it needed to be done.

Just bare in mind with the whole "to look like his dad" thing, in reality by the time he is old enough to know he will be more concerned about comparing himself to his peers than his father. And seeing as very few boys are circumcised these days he would form part of the majority if was left in-tact. Just a thought if being the same as everyone else is your concern

[M O P]

It really is a decision for you and your husband to make, together.

Our son was "done". My husband was prob thinking like your husband (they're weird aren't they?) but also my brothers weren't done and one needed to be later and I've never forgotten how much pain he was in. Granted I do understand we didn't get Hugh's tonsils or appendix taken out at the same time but you kwim.

We also discussed it with the paed, a nurse and the surgeon. The nurse thought we'd made the right decision, in her opinion, another nurse might have said not to, as she used to work in a repat and a children's hospital so she's seen plenty of little boys and old men have it done. It's much simpler as a newborn.

The procedure Hugh had, with the plastibel, was very easy. He cried when it was first done but was fine after that, my nephew slept through it! I found the heel pricks he had to check his blood sugar level a few times worse, as a parent hearing your baby cry. A few days later I found the plastic piece in his nappy- no infection. The surgeon was very good and made sure my husband knew how it worked incase anything went wrong when we got home- 450km away.

[rval]

I have very recently had my son circumcised in Melbourne. I researched the whole thing very carefully. It is no longer a "********, painful' procedure. It can be done painlessly and without a general anaesthetic. My doctor used a plastibell and we are very happy with both the procedure and the outcome. I know without a doubt we have made the right decision for our son. The benefits far outweigh the negatives. Particularly with the new research about how HIV transmission is greatly reduced in circumcised men. If I can protect my child from that I am doing a very good thing.

[A Party of Five]

I know people say that if you teach your boys to be clean and how to clean it then there shouldn't be any problems - but in her experience she told me that she'd seen teenage boys getting them done because of infection

A good friend of mine DP (late 20's) is having it "done" beacuse he is giving her infections all the time.

[FourAngelKisses]

A good friend of mine DP (late 20's) is having it "done" beacuse he is giving her infections all the time.

Has he tried showering before sex?? Would be less traumatic than having surgery.

[stellarella]

I dont really see the cleanliness/infection thing really holds any water. Its really important to teach about hygiene, not just chop off a part of the body as a way of controlling this.

I mean, lots of people dont clean thier teeth properly and they constantly get toothaches or whatever but we dont just go around removing everyones teeth at birth....

You may think im using a silly example becaue a foreskin doesnt have a vital purpose or something...but I totally disagree...it does serve a VERY important function of protecting the sensitive head of a little boys penis and later on in life during intercourse.

Theres no point saying "oh but such n such has it done and he thinks its great and feels no differene during intercourse" because how would they ever really know with nothing to compare it too.

Anyway....JMO :D

[reAllytee]

Exactly either way no male can compare it unless he has had the surgery done later in life & even then its not really comparable.

[SamanthaJane]

We all have our body parts for a reason. Now if i ever have a boy, unless i had to for medical reasons, there will be no one chopping any of my little boys' parts off :D

[A Party of Five]

Has he tried showering before sex?? Would be less traumatic than having surgery.

:laughing: :laughing: Yes he does. I asked my friend the same thing. But there is alot of skin that needs to be taken off.

[samtom]

We didnt get out little boy done, asked about it but no one really does it anymore, unless there is something medically wrong that they think it is best to, we got told of one doctor that does it in our area but said it cost $500 which I thought was silly,

[bunintheoven12]

Gosh it's good to see that there ar many people with the same views as myself. This procedure should be banned. There is no reason to have it done and the World Health Organisation says this. How anyone can hurt their child like this is beyond me. The whole religious issue is a joke also (I am married to a Jewish man) the only reason people get away with doing it for religious reasons is because if anyone were to say anything they'd be called racist. For the record I won and our 13 month old son has not been done. The whole way it's done is ******** and if we were to cut our child anywhere else we'd be reported to Docs. I can't belive there are still people out there who can't see how wrong it is and who couldn't care about their child's right to choose what happens to their body. As a mother, i can't understand how any mother could possibly allow their son to be hurt this way. When my son was born I was overcome with how protective I was towards him and there was no way I could allow him to be inflicted with this pain for no good reason. This child trusts you to protect it and here people are cutting off a piece of skin with no pain relief. The thougt that is is still going on really upsets me. I could never ever do this to my son.

[Mister Noodle]

Even with pain relief, an important and functional part of your body is missing.

How this fails to horrify people, I will never understand.

[Nate19]

i dont know how women can talk about having a penis. I mean only a guy knows what having a penis is like, just like a woman only knows what having a vagina is like.

I don't want to sound disrespectful to the older women here (as I am only 19), but I would put more weight on what a guy says than what a female says. I would even put more weight on what 13 year old guy says when it comes to having a penis than what a 99 year old woman says.

Just like ill put more weight on what a woman says about having a vagina.

Now my penis is perfectly ok and it was circumsized. I can urinate, I can ejaculate and it is very sensitive. Now all these women saying that if you circumsize a guy you will ruin him for life are clueless.

[chezbear]

I didnt get my bot done coz i didnt want to put him through the ordeal, i think it all comes down to cleanliness and if a boy is taught to clean it properly there is no problems.

[Caithi]

OMG! Had this discussion with DH yesterday!:eek:

He isnt, and he said that the thought af his head ( sorry TMI ) rubbing against his undies ALL DAY makes him cringe..............

So I asked my friend about it ( her DP is ) and we sort of compared different things and I truely believe that his is less sensitive than my DH.

LOL weird convo.... :laughing:

I dont even want to think about my child growning up already but I think that you do have to put it into perspective. Is it worth having your sons penis look like yours?? I mean, will you really compare it later on in life? :confused:

BUT.... different strokes for different folks I guess :laughing:

[Mister Noodle]

Hi. :wave:

Not-a-woman here, and I can perfectly well attest to the benefists of having your bits intact.

The frictionless gliding mechanism is a major, major advantage during sex. Having tried it both ways, I can say that I'd class losing it as a major disability.

The several thousand nerve endings in the foreskin are also something of an asset. Worth a couple of fingers, in my book.

Can you speak on either subject?

Keeping the glans protected means that it doesn't keratinise over a lifetime. Treasure your sensitivity while you still have it, because as the outer covering of the glans gradually turns to hard skin-like tissue as you grow older, it will become less and less able to transmit sensation.

Also, while a circumcised penis may still react to fairly faint stimuli, the greatly reduced number of nerve endings means that there's simply less information making its way to the brain; the range of sensation has been decreased.

Like a badly dubbed tape, turning up the volume doesn't bring back the detail.

You know what you have now - how exactly do you know what you would have had, had you been left intact?

[Caithi]

You know what you have now - how exactly do you know what you would have had, had you been left intact?

"Here here" yells my husband as he sits here with crossed legs!:laughing:

[reAllytee]

Then we come back to the fact how do you know what having a circ'ed penis is like Mr N sorry but again you cant compare its not possible.
The fact that circ'ed males can still have sex & enjoy it tells us that guess what they enjoy sex just like you do.
Every woman feels different sensations also some women cant have orgasms through sex, some can & same goes with oral sex it can go either way.
Everyones body is different just because you assume it would feel one way doesnt mean it does & vice versa.


As with the whole female circumcison while i dont neccessarily agree with it i find it hard to say that its bad for another culture to do it. This is such a grey are imo because basically we are then forcing our beliefs on another culture because we dont agree with it. Look how many times this has happened in our past & look at the repurcussions that have come about from this.

[semazani]

There are men who restore their foreskins. They would have the best idea of the difference in sex/sensation.

[MotherNurture]

The fact that circ'ed males can still have sex & enjoy it tells us that guess what they enjoy sex just like you do.

If you are well informed regarding the anatomy and physiology of the foreskin, the mechanics of natural vs. circumcised sex, and what happens to the glans over the course of a lifetime when it's permanently exposed the assertion that sex could possibly be the same for a man with all his nerve-laden protective parts and a man whose undergone prepucectomy is completely nonsensical.

Please go to the [deleted by admin] and scroll down 2/3 of the way down the page until you get to "Medical School Curriculum" and take 20 minutes to watch "The Prepuce" presentation.

When you're through watching, I'm interested to hear your reaction and thoughts.

Thanks,

Jen

[Mister Noodle]

Then we come back to the fact how do you know what having a circ'ed penis is like Mr N sorry but again you cant compare its not possible.
The fact that circ'ed males can still have sex & enjoy it tells us that guess what they enjoy sex just like you do.
Every woman feels different sensations also some women cant have orgasms through sex, some can & same goes with oral sex it can go either way.
Everyones body is different just because you assume it would feel one way doesnt mean it does & vice versa.


Ally, an intact male can simulate the experience of a circumcised penis to a fair degree. By keeping the foreskin manually retracted throughout, we can disable the gliding mechanism, relying (as circumcised males do) on friction for stimulation, instead of waves of pressure as the foreskin rolls over.

And it sucks, frankly. Sure, a *little* friction as a highlight certainly makes things interesting - and this is always available to us. But to have nothing else...

I invite you to test out the experience on your own bits - direct friction only. Not fun.

Also, intact males have all the nerve endings that circumcised ones do - we just have to subtract all the pleasure and details we get from the touch receptors and stretch receptors of the foreskin - simply avoid all contact between the base of the glans and the skin for about a third of the way down the shaft. And guess what... that sucks, too!

Oh, sure, you can still reach orgasm, so yes, you still experience a certain amount of pleasure from sex. But I think we all agree that it's the journey that counts, not the destination - and I don't see why anyone has the right to restrict another person to economy-class tickets their entire life, when they would otherwise have the choice to travel first at no extra cost.

(actually, a few studies have show that circumcised males do tend to be all about the orgasm, taking less pleasure in the lead-up than intact males.)



As with the whole female circumcison while i dont neccessarily agree with it i find it hard to say that its bad for another culture to do it. This is such a grey are imo because basically we are then forcing our beliefs on another culture because we dont agree with it. Look how many times this has happened in our past & look at the repurcussions that have come about from this.

Cutlural relativism at its worst.

I'll be the first to get up on my hind legs and tell you that morality is neither absolute nor objective, believe you me. It's a property of the perception of the observer, and thus relates entirely to the individual.

No moral judgement is true for everyone, for just like distance, the measurement is meaningless except in the context of the person making it.

I think William Quine put it best: "The fact of the matter is, there is no fact of the matter".

But this does not mean you turn a blind eye to the things that you find to be evil. If you find something to be wrong, then be proud to get up and say so, because your judgement carries exactly as much weight as everyone else's. Just because you can't prove it objectively, doesn't mean it's not important.

And if you don't... how can you hold your head up? If nobody did, what kind of society would we live in?

[Ana Gram]

Ok Noodle, I am going to have to stop you right there. I have done my own study, and field work and I do believe that I may well have slept with more men than you. My study has concluded that each man is different and each man's pleasure during sex is different. I have done field work with both circumcised men and uncircumcised men and after much study I have found that there is very little difference in the sexual function of both. Both actually come out even in the pleasure stakes and having a foreskin or not holds NO baring on the womans pleasure during sex. The womens pleasure comes down to, not the skin on a penis as some might have you believe but down to the man's competence with his partners bits rather than his own.

[MotherNurture]

Ok Noodle, I am going to have to stop you right there. I have done my own study, and field work and I do believe that I may well have slept with more men than you. My study has concluded that each man is different and each man's pleasure during sex is different. I have done field work with both circumcised men and uncircumcised men and after much study I have found that there is very little difference in the sexual function of both. Both actually come out even in the pleasure stakes and having a foreskin or not holds NO baring on the womans pleasure during sex. The womens pleasure comes down to, not the skin on a penis as some might have you believe but down to the man's competence with his partners bits rather than his own.

In the interest of...uh...science, would you be willing to take 20 minutes to watch a medical school curriculum presentation entitled, "The Prepuce"?

You can find it 2/3 of the way down the page, [deleted by admin] in WMV format. You can either watch it online, or download it. I found it played more smoothly when I downloaded it.

Jen

[reAllytee]

Ok Noodle, I am going to have to stop you right there. I have done my own study, and field work and I do believe that I may well have slept with more men than you. My study has concluded that each man is different and each man's pleasure during sex is different. I have done field work with both circumcised men and uncircumcised men and after much study I have found that there is very little difference in the sexual function of both. Both actually come out even in the pleasure stakes and having a foreskin or not holds NO baring on the womans pleasure during sex. The womens pleasure comes down to, not the skin on a penis as some might have you believe but down to the man's competence with his partners bits rather than his own.

I totally agree :yelclap: :yelclap:

I dont think i know any circ'ed guy who ever complained !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mumofcaleb]

I think that this procedure should only be done for medical reasons. Otherwise there is absolutely no purpose for it.

[mumofcaleb]

Gosh it's good to see that there ar many people with the same views as myself. This procedure should be banned. There is no reason to have it done and the World Health Organisation says this. How anyone can hurt their child like this is beyond me. The whole religious issue is a joke also (I am married to a Jewish man) the only reason people get away with doing it for religious reasons is because if anyone were to say anything they'd be called racist. For the record I won and our 13 month old son has not been done. The whole way it's done is ******** and if we were to cut our child anywhere else we'd be reported to Docs. I can't belive there are still people out there who can't see how wrong it is and who couldn't care about their child's right to choose what happens to their body. As a mother, i can't understand how any mother could possibly allow their son to be hurt this way. When my son was born I was overcome with how protective I was towards him and there was no way I could allow him to be inflicted with this pain for no good reason. This child trusts you to protect it and here people are cutting off a piece of skin with no pain relief. The thougt that is is still going on really upsets me. I could never ever do this to my son.

Well said.

[Mister Noodle]

Ok Noodle, I am going to have to stop you right there. I have done my own study, and field work and I do believe that I may well have slept with more men than you. My study has concluded that each man is different and each man's pleasure during sex is different. I have done field work with both circumcised men and uncircumcised men and after much study I have found that there is very little difference in the sexual function of both. Both actually come out even in the pleasure stakes and having a foreskin or not holds NO baring on the womans pleasure during sex. The womens pleasure comes down to, not the skin on a penis as some might have you believe but down to the man's competence with his partners bits rather than his own.

You're missing the same point as ally.

You aren't able to compare what they actually feel, and men with no foreskin are unable to compare between sex with one and sex without one.

An intact male, however, is able to make an at least partial comparison.

Yes, they both get pleasure from sex. But the man with a foreskin has more variety and depth of sensation available - there's simply more information heading up the spinal cord. However much pleasure may be available to a circumcised man, there is simply more available to an intact one.

[melfunction]

We've had a few 'discussions' about this topic recently (in case we have a boy) and I tend to lean towards no, but DH is definately for the procedure because he would like his son to 'look like him dowstairs'. Hmmm, am a bit stuck. I know most of the pros and cons but I would like your opinion too! :confused:

We didn't even consider getting K cut. We deemed it an unnecessary procedure that causes extreme pain and stress on a newborn baby. Sure, he wouldn't remember it, but we still feel putting our son through any experience that would cause him distress for any amount of time was cruel.

[Ana Gram]

You're missing the same point as ally.

You aren't able to compare what they actually feel, and men with no foreskin are unable to compare between sex with one and sex without one.

An intact male, however, is able to make an at least partial comparison.

Yes, they both get pleasure from sex. But the man with a foreskin has more variety and depth of sensation available - there's simply more information heading up the spinal cord. However much pleasure may be available to a circumcised man, there is simply more available to an intact one.

I completely disagree. Again, I wager that I have actually slept with more men than you have and probably more than the people who actually do the studies and in practice there is little difference.
I have infact slept with a man who had been circumcised later in life and he said there was no difference in his pleasure.

And honestly I have to say that on average, sex with circumcised men was always better.

[Mister Noodle]

Again, you aren't able to compare their experience to that which they would have had were they not circumcised - and no more are they.

Your circumcised-in-later-life partner is also only partially-applicable (since we can't factor in decades of keratinisation), and represents a sample size of exactly one, reducing the relevance of your wide experience somewhat dramatically.

[RedPanda]

Isn't the "pleasure during sex" argument a bit of a side issue? I mean, is it really a factor in deciding whether to subject a newborn to surgery? It's certainly not something I factored into my decision.

[Ana Gram]

Again, you aren't able to compare their experience to that which they would have had were they not circumcised - and no more are they.

Your circumcised-in-later-life partner is also only partially-applicable (since we can't factor in decades of keratinisation), and represents a sample size of exactly one, reducing the relevance of your wide experience somewhat dramatically.

And with that your idea that you can make a comparison is now blown out of the water as well.

[Ana Gram]

In the interest of...uh...science, would you be willing to take 20 minutes to watch a medical school curriculum presentation entitled, "The Prepuce"?

You can find it 2/3 of the way down the page, [deleted] in WMV format. You can either watch it online, or download it. I found it played more smoothly when I downloaded it.

Jen

Well there is 20 minutes of my life I can never get back. I have a suggestion for the makers of this piece, get a different narrator, one with a less coma inducing voice!

[the_queen]

Isn't the "pleasure during sex" argument a bit of a side issue? I mean, is it really a factor in deciding whether to subject a newborn to surgery? It's certainly not something I factored into my decision.

Very good point, just what I was going to say. :yelclap:

[MotherNurture]

Well there is 20 minutes of my life I can never get back. I have a suggestion for the makers of this piece, get a different narrator, one with a less coma inducing voice!

While I don't believe the intent was to be entertaining, I agree with you about the narrator. You'll be happy to know according to rumour it's in the process of being reproduced/reformated. I have no idea when the updated version will be available though.

Jen

[Mister Noodle]

the_queen: if the surgery were likely to significantly impair it, you don't think that would be an important consideration?

[RedPanda]

the_queen: if the surgery were likely to significantly impair it, you don't think that would be an important consideration?

I think the_queen (like myself) was saying sexual enjoyment should not be a reason FOR circumcision. But yes, MN, it's certainly another argument against if it does impair enjoyment.

My point was that when I hold a newborn, I don't ponder ways for him to enjoy sex better when he is older. In fact, I prefer not to think of him as getting old enough to have sex!;)

[MotherNurture]

My son's intact, and truth be told I don't spend a lot of time thinking about his future potential sex life either. However, whether or not to cut off part of his penis-the primary male sex organ-was never something I gave serious consideration.

If I was considering elective surgery for his penis, future sexual functioning would absolutely have to be taken into account. I think it's essential for parents considering circumcision to understand the mechanics of normal intercourse and the protective, sexual, and immunological functions of the very part they're contemplating cutting off.

Refusing to research or acknowledge the functions of the part you're planning to excise-especially in this day and age where the information is readily available and easily accessible via the internet or public library-is, IMO nothing short irresponsible/neglegent.

Circumcision is, quite literally, genital reduction surgery.

It permanently externalizes a part of the penis that is designed by nature/god to require protection when not in use to maintain optimal sensitivity -and- it removes the only independently mobile part of the penis, the built-in gliding mechanism. The skin that would contain, in adulthood, 3-4 feet of blood vessels, 240 feet of nerves, and 10,000-20,000 specialized, fine-touch receptive nerve endings ends up in a medical waste incinerator. Parental desires aside, the focus should be what's truly in HIS best interests (It is HIS penis) and what will preserve the most functionality and will leave him with the most options as an adult.

Jen

[DQ]

This debate is getting old. I can't beleive we are going there again????????

[kristy J]

We've had a few 'discussions' about this topic recently (in case we have a boy) and I tend to lean towards no, but DH is definately for the procedure because he would like his son to 'look like him dowstairs'. Hmmm, am a bit stuck. I know most of the pros and cons but I would like your opinion too! :confused:


i am having a boy and my husband and i are getting him done. the reason being is teenage boys are grotty. we personally know 4 boys who were done between the ages of 9 to 20 and its verry hard at that age. also with my research i found their is a huge link to un circumcised men and the risk of the bacteria that can trigger cirvical cancer in their partners. i found pleanty of info on this in the net. it would be easy to find.

we will waite till he is six months as i won't do it without an anasetic.

the only way you will be happy is if you do the research yourself and you will be happy with what you decide. i just recomend listening to doctors more than the average person (like me)

kris

[star2589]

We've had a few 'discussions' about this topic recently (in case we have a boy) and I tend to lean towards no, but DH is definately for the procedure because he would like his son to 'look like him dowstairs'. Hmmm, am a bit stuck. I know most of the pros and cons but I would like your opinion too! :confused:

well, let me ask you this: if your genitals had been altered would you alter your daughter so that she can look like you? the decision is simply not the father's to make.

[shed]

I prefer to give my boy the benefit of the doubt when speculating on his hygiene habits as a teenager.

I don't presume that he will be particularly grotty.

[misskittyfantastico]

I agree with you there Shed! I have faith that any boy I may have will be able to clean himself.

[kristy J]

http://www.circinfo.net/pdfs/Guide_for_Parents.pdf

This is a great page with lots of info and its printable.

Something for both sides to think about

[melfunction]

I prefer to give my boy the benefit of the doubt when speculating on his hygiene habits as a teenager.

I don't presume that he will be particularly grotty.

Oh god me too!! In fact I would be ashamed of myself, as his parent, not to have taught him about hygiene.

[xkwzit]

http://www.circinfo.net/pdfs/Guide_for_Parents.pdf

This is a great page with lots of info and its printable.

Something for both sides to think about

I personally find it quite interesting that in none of these pro-circ resources do the doctors actually state what the procedure entails. They never talk about crushing and cutting of the foreskin or the fact that some of them use an anaesthetic cream that is NOT recommended for babies under 6 months. I would give them much more credit if they were HONEST and OPEN about the procedure - seems to me that their focus is on doing as many circs as possible, rather than giving parents all the required information to make an informed decision. That's JMO based on looking at sites like this (and the websites it references - all of these sites reference each other).

Cheers

[MissyMack]

I couldn't do it. I find it hard enough to take DS to get needles (which every mother does) let alone doing this :crying:

I also thought that obv God put it there for a reason so why not keep it there.

I know that if it does get infected down the track that it is going to hurt him alot more than if i got it dont earlier, but i'm willing to take that risk. I bath him morning and night :fingerscrossed:

My brother hasn't had it done and he his a healthy 23 yr old.

I guess it is up to each individual. But those i know that have had thier DS done, have done it because DH has.

GOOD LUCK

[kristy J]

I have spoken to many doctors at my local hospital as well as the westmead childrens hospital and they are pro circumcision.
most of my girlfriends who have boys all had it done, and so has all 5 boys born in my family over the last 2 years, all their doctors had no problem (except one in melbourne).

i guess this is a personal decision.

Hope everyone has a great day.

[the_queen]

I seriously doubt you would find any doctors under 35 years old that recommend the procedure unless they are being religously or financially influenced.

Great point PP :yes: