View Full Version : 5 year old left home with newborn and 17 month old alone
MummaBear03
06-10-2010, 19:17
It wasn't for a long time. Their mum had to go and get their dad from work and the baby was asleep and the 5 year old and toddler were watching TV together so she decided to leave them home.
I got home to see the 5 year old in the front yard with the toddler, realised their was no car and realised the father was at work and has no licence, therefore he did not have the car, so I asked the 5 year old who was home with her.
She said "Mum left me at home with the babies while she gets Daddy from work" and kept riding on her bike.
When the mum got home I said she should have called out, I could have picked him up while we were out or come to watch the kids if I knew she was going out. She has no problem leaving them here any other time! She thought it wasn't a problem, the 5 year old is nearly 6 so old enough to be home with the babies for an hour or so :confused:
Please give some advice or opinions on this? Would you say something to someone else, or just keep offering to look after them?
Or do you think it's suitable to leave them home for an hour at that age?
i would be reporting that...
call someone...
a 5 year old is not old enough to look after themselves let alone babies too!!!
I don't know what I would do, I would have to tell someone that is incredibly wrong. Those children are far too young to be left home alone, someone could break in, the house could burn down, I can think of so many things. A 5 year old wouldn't have a clue what to do.
No way should she leave those kids alone like that.
brogeybear
06-10-2010, 19:21
I would report them to DOCS no hesitation. That is seriously UNACCEPTABLE and no Im not going to go, "Oh but the mum has this and that and sometimes you don't have an option, blah blah blah" There is NO excuse for that! Just like there is no excuse for hitting your children or verbally abusing them!
ComeBackKid
06-10-2010, 19:24
I do not think it is an appropriate age to be left home alone for any amount of time.
Especially a newborn :O
NibbleCurlynBub
06-10-2010, 19:26
Agreed with other posters. Not acceptable ever, no excuse, even in an emergency, the next door neighbour is better than nobody.
Report.
If she is not concerned, she will do it again and who knows what will happen next time?? :no:
chicken and eggs mum
06-10-2010, 19:26
ummm... no way is it acceptable.
fire? burgulary? some crazy walking in off the street?
I wouldnt even go out the front when DD was a newborn!!!!
I would be reporting ASAP
MummaBear03
06-10-2010, 19:31
We don't even live in the safest of streets either :(
I feel like we've stepped back to the early 80s where this kind of thing happened all the time in smaller towns.
She is trying so hard with those kids, her 5 year old was in foster care up until just before her 5th birthday and she has been putting in so much effort I'd hate to ruin it. But at the same time those kids are so tiny, I can't imagine leaving my 7 year old at home let alone in charge of young babies in nappies, and the toddler is so fast as they always are, no front fence, he could have run out in front of a car and would the 5 year old be to blame for that? She's too little to be able to act quick enough to stop that from happening.
Pina Colada
06-10-2010, 19:39
I have a 5 year old, and 2 smaller children, and there is no way in the world she is old enough to leave home alone herself, let alone in charge of 2 siblings.
I understand what you are saying about not wanting to report her because she is trying, but I WOULD be reporting this, particularly as you spoke to her about it, and she didn't see it as being a big deal.
Imagine if you don't report her, and it happens again, but next time something terrible happens. I know I would never forgive myself.
What a sad situation.
zombiekitty
06-10-2010, 19:41
i would be reporting that...
Agreed. Someone has to look out for the kids.
No way no how! Not even for 5 mins, let alone "an hour or so"! The furthest I've been out of the house when either of my kids has been sleeping has been the letterbox and i even felt guilty at that!
I know she is putting in a lot of effort, but put your work hat on for a minute, if any of your parents at work did that, you're obliged to report it, why is it different because shes a Neighbour?
ComeBackKid
06-10-2010, 19:46
Agreed with other posters. Not acceptable ever, no excuse, even in an emergency, the next door neighbour is better than nobody.
Report.
If she is not concerned, she will do it again and who knows what will happen next time?? :no:
I agree.
I know you dont want to ruin it ... and my kids have been in foster care and i know how hard it is to prove yourself and get them back.... but what if something happened to those kids?
Anything could happen - especially with the younger two - and frankly, i think she (and they) are lucky nothing did.
I think it is, in this case, the lesser of two evils - reporting it and having it dealt with by authorities (which you know, may not be child protection ripping them all out of her care) or having something happen when and if she leaves them alone again :(
Boobycino
06-10-2010, 19:46
If this is her *trying* I'd hate to think her not trying.
Reportng isn't about punishing the parent it's about protecting the babies and 1 hour or so is long enough for something to go very wrong.
And the 5 year old is out the front so really the toddler is watching a newborn?!?
What of the toddler decides the baby is hungry?
:no: not good.
I'd make an anonymous tip. Have docs come and have a chat with her. Surely you werent the only person to see her child on her bike and no car in the drive? So it may not have just been you.
And if it's not the safest street if you can work out that her parents aren't home, then someone who'd wish them harm could too :no:
NibbleCurlynBub
06-10-2010, 19:48
:hugs: I can tell from your posts that you know what is the right thing to do and as bad as you feel for the mother, how hard she has worked, is irrelevant when we are talking about the safety of these children.
Your concerns have been validated, please be the one to report it so that she can get some help.
I know that you could not live with yourself if you chose to do nothing and hope that she won't do it again, and something happened to those children next time.
~*clairesmum*~
06-10-2010, 19:49
Report her
brogeybear
06-10-2010, 19:50
Aren't you a mandatory reporter since you work in child care?
Far out-so not acceptable!!
I was kinda freaking out over the school holidays.My neighbour has her daughter and grandson living with her.The Grandson is 10yo and while the Mum is at work the Grandma left him at home to go to bingo,hairdresser,doctor etc.
It made me really mad,esp as she asked me to watch out for him,and really its not my job!!!
No way I could leave babies!!!
shadowangel0205
06-10-2010, 19:56
Ok, so i totally agree with everyone. Quick background on me, Im a childcare worker, and have had training on child abuse. This is most definately NEGLECT as she is failing to provide adequate supervision to her children. She is NOT looking out for thier safety. A 5 year old is not old enough, or mature enough to act appropriately in any situation. I mean jeez...I still cared for them in a CHILD CARE centre...
Im pretty sure the LEGAL age for any child to be left alone is 12 or 13. (But i do stand to be corrected on that, im not 100% sure) 5 is NOT old enough. I would not be hesitating to report this. She might be the best mother in the world, with the best of intentions and the most love for her children, but that situation is just totally unsafe for ALL of them.
Ultimately it comes down to the children and their best interests. Regardless of the mothers efforts and intentions. Think about these few questions...
- Was adequate supervision given to any, or all of the children?
- Could any of them acted appropriately should an issue arrise?
- Was there the potential for harm to come to any of the children?
- If one became injured who would have cared for or tended to them?
- Was anyone able to Protect the children from potential harm?
- What would happen if the baby or toddler began to choke?
Sorry for the novel, but this kind of thing just scares the bajeebas out of me. 5 year olds still cry and need comfort and assitance from an adult when they skin their knees... They are in no way capable of taking care of themselves, let alone 2 other children.
You need to think about the kids here. That is just not on and if she is trying really hard she really needs to try a h3ll of a lot harder.
I would probably report in the hope that she recieves more support and education/guidance.
It's the lesser of two evils TBH.
NonnyMouse
06-10-2010, 21:16
The question I ask when wondering about suitable home-alone ages (aside from the obvious safety concerns) is "What if I don't make it home?".
Would the child be able to decide when to call for help, who to call, can they give appropriate information such as address, contact details for their parents etc, would they be able to look after themselves and any other children there in their care with regard to food, water, health issues etc until help arrived?
There are even some 14/15/16 year olds who I wouldn't feel happy leaving, let alone an infant, toddler, and young child.
SassyMummy
06-10-2010, 21:20
There is no way 5-year-old DD could look after herself at home alone, let alone be responsible for others too!
RaryGirl
06-10-2010, 21:25
I wouldn't leave my two little ones home alone with my 12 year old, even I was just ducking to the shops for some milk. :no:
It's not that my 12 year old isn't mature enough to 'cope' with them, but what if something happened to me and I didn't make it home? :(
MommaBear
06-10-2010, 21:27
REPORT IT TO DOCS ASAP
and in the meantime if you do notice them home alone again call the police.
She is not trying if she is leaving a child alone to look after two infants. thats not trying at all thats neglect.
if you don't report this then i am afraid you are also partaking in the neglect of these children - it takes one good person to do nothing for evil to prevail - or so the saying goes. Sorry to be harsh but that is the truth of it.
Sometimes you just have to make the hard call & do the right thing for the sake of the children.
I understand that you might not want to report her, but this is a big deal and not legal (it might vary in some states, but I'm sure the minimum legal age is about 12). If someone else ever reports her, she might lose the children again. You need to try to get her to understand that it's not OK and that you are there for her if she ever needs some assistance - at the very least.
Best of luck with it.
MummaBear03
06-10-2010, 22:44
The laws here don't have an actual age. I rang to enquire about that because a little girl in DD's grade at school is one of the youngest in the grade, turned 6 on June 30 and gets herself to and from school and is home alone in the afternoons until around 5:30/6pm. It's based on maturity and whether or not they are capable of being home alone rather than having an age to it. She said she wouldn't have done it had there not been others around. Her 5 year old knows to come here if there's ever a problem. We might not be home through the day but we're home most nights by about 6 or so. She knows how to cross roads too. The toddler is the one I was concerned about, along with the newborn. The toddler was outside with the 5 year old, not inside with the baby and my concern was that this street is like a drag strip.
Oh my God those poor kids.
This made me feel sick in my stomach to read.
I don't give a flying funt about the Mum's situation I would most definitely be calling the police.
That is such a horrible situation...Those poor little kidlets. Who could leave their kids alone like that? Seriously. I am being so serious. What if the parents had had a car accident? Anything could have happened.
It is sad that she has had her child taken into care, and that reporting it could be a strike against her, but she sounds like she needs to hear, and recognise, the possibilities of the things that could go wrong. Are people really like this clueless? How? How? How?
*babygirl*
06-10-2010, 22:55
What the hell is wrong with people!!! What if one of the BABIES(yes a five year old is closer to a baby than a young adult!!!) picked up/threw something on/hurt the newborn?? Or one locked the other outside? Or te five year old got hit by a freaking car riding her bike outside!!!! Omg there a million things wrong with that!!! How can people be so careless with their children???
~ElectricPink~
06-10-2010, 22:58
I just don't understand why she didn't just wake the newborn up, and bring all three kids with her? Or tell the husband he can wait for a little while or find his own way home? There's NO WAY I would risk the safety of my children by doing something like that! You should definitely report it. It doesn't necessarily mean that she'll have the kids removed from her care, but she'll probably have to do a parenting course and have visits from a docs worker, which by the sounds of it may be a good thing.
it's probably better you report her because it's unlikely they will take her kids away immediately anyway, but they will usually try to work with the mum and dad and see what they can do to change things. you would be doing the whole family a favour.
NonnyMouse
06-10-2010, 23:01
And what does the husband think about his wife coming to get him, having left all three kids at home alone????
I've started training my kids in anticipation for no OOSH in high school, where DS will be in 2012 (he's one of the oldest in his year). I started last year because I want him to know exactly what to do and how to do it. so we started with learning the phone, where numbers are, how to call them, what to listen for when it rings etc (not big phone users). DD is learning at the same time.
Over the last 12 months we've come up with rules to follow and practised everything with them - who to call, not to answer the phone unless they recognise the number (friend/us via caller ID), not to answer the door, not to play outside, no physical play in the house, what to do if they hear something/see something/fire etc. What they can and cannot eat/drink/use.
then we'd go around the block, across to the shop over the road, away from the house for 5/10/20 minutes etc. My kids are mature for their age and are also quiet generally obedient people, so it's been working well so far.
I'm a fairly paranoid parent, even though I grew up without OOSH and was home alone from year 3 without incident but 5 is way too young.
when this bub is born it will not be left at home with the older two no matter how good they might be!
MummaBear03
06-10-2010, 23:17
Bad mum - no other words
That's a bit harsh. Child safety are still involved and working with them but she has all her kids in her care. She's had a lot of struggles and is really trying so hard to be a better mum. She made poor judgement this time. I don't know that she simply dismissed it or if she seemed to but then thought more about it. I'll bring it up again and tell her about how she can't do that, it's not appropriate and hope she understands.
Five years old hmm. DD is 4.5 years old and that's only 6 months age difference, I could never imagine leaving her in the house by herself, let alone with younger children. The poor kids, what if something happened :(
NonnyMouse
06-10-2010, 23:20
DD is left home alone at times and it bugs the heck out of me, but I make sure she calls me if it's longer than 30 mins and I stay on the phone chatting to her until her dad gets home, so although she's physically alone, at least she's not totally unsupervised. He usually just walks to the supermarket just up the road (about 5 mins walk) for a few things, but the other day went for a long walk and was away for over an hour (after dark!!) so we just chatted and played online games till he got back (and I told her to give him a talking to about going out for a long walk without taking his cellphone, as he left himself no way of letting her know he was going to be longer than usual!).
She's a sensible and mature girl, but definitely should not be left alone like that. *sigh*
Opinionated
06-10-2010, 23:20
OMG!
I would report it. What happens if the parents are in a bad car accident and unconcious and can't tell anyone the kids are alone? Fire? Intruder? Toddler chokes on something? Jeez, just too much could happen.
Her 5 year old was in Foster Care until just before their 5th birthday? Have I got that right? If so, then obviously this child hasn't been back in her care for very long at all, and she's already leaving a BABY (aka 5 year old) home alone to look after a toddler and a newborn?
I'm sorry. There are no reasons or excuses not to report her to Child Safety. I hope to God this happens before she leaves 3 babies alone again. Anything could happen to those children...whether she is gone for 3 minutes or 30 minutes. Or longer!
Just because she's reported doesn't necessarily mean her kids will be taken away from her, she might actually get the help and guidance she needs in order to be a responsible parent this way. Her kids need to be protected and that's clearly not happening if she's leaving them alone like this. Please report her :(
Annabella
06-10-2010, 23:31
Personally I would not report it. You know the family and usually seem to have pretty good judgement and if it was *that* bad, I think u would know unequivocably that that was what you need to do. If I was in ur position I would again offer help but also maybe point out that it looks really bad and probably not safe and you'd hate to see her risking losing the kids again.
I wouldn't leave my 5 & 7 yr old with my baby but I actually do feel they would be fine, even if there was a fire or whatever. And I do think that often kids who are left to their own devices a lot, to word it nicely, are very mature and able when it comes to taking care of themselves and younger siblings. Most of the worlds population (including many Indigenous people in Australia) rely on their older children to take care of younger siblings, I know this does not mean it is ideal, but if she is doing everything else right, I believe the kids are better off with their mum than in foster care.
That's a bit harsh. Child safety are still involved and working with them but she has all her kids in her care. She's had a lot of struggles and is really trying so hard to be a better mum. She made poor judgement this time. I don't know that she simply dismissed it or if she seemed to but then thought more about it. I'll bring it up again and tell her about how she can't do that, it's not appropriate and hope she understands.
My comment was basically a summary of what most people were saying.
3boysnpregnant
06-10-2010, 23:35
That's a bit harsh. Child safety are still involved and working with them but she has all her kids in her care. She's had a lot of struggles and is really trying so hard to be a better mum. She made poor judgement this time. I don't know that she simply dismissed it or if she seemed to but then thought more about it. I'll bring it up again and tell her about how she can't do that, it's not appropriate and hope she understands.
But if you dont say something they dont know Just how much work/help she needs...
I think you have a duty of care (as all adults do to children) to report it..
I doubt for that reason she would loose the kids.. But would get more help.
Opinionated
06-10-2010, 23:55
What happens if she has poor judgement repeatedly and the people trying to help her don't know? What do you think would happen if docs turned up while she was out? She obviously needs more help and guidance than she is getting.
Aren't you a mandatory reporter since you work in child care?
people who work in childcare are not mandated to report abuse/neglect... in my state anyway... we are only obligated to...
OP- what state are you in???
http://www.cyf.vic.gov.au/family-services/home
i am in victoria... and this system is set up for anyone to call and gain information/express concerns about child's welfare or to seek help.
it might worth looking into.. or seeing if your state has something similiar.
they will be able to give you advice on the matter and help you make an informed decision about it.
Child First will also then decide whether the matter needs to be reffered to child protection or whether the family need extra support in the house (which is what it sound like to me)
you never know... maybe the parents were not aware of the risk of leaving the children at home... and its programs through services like child first that parents/families can get the help they need to make informed decisions.
i hope this helps you a bit!!!
good luck!
It is not acceptable to leave a 5yr old in charge of a toddler and a baby. How could a 5 yr old be responsible enough for this????? There are so many dangerous scenarios springing to mind here!!!! I'm sorry, but I would have reported that. I once rang the cops because I was in a woollies carpark and i saw a mother leave her 2 kids (they WERE asleep) in the car...she went and did shopping (I sat in my car opposite to hers and waited to see if anyone came back) about 10mins later they woke screaming, I called the cops and they broke into the car (it was probably about 25degrees that day) she came back 30mins later and had a go at the coppers for waking her kids up!!! WTF???!!!!
The mum in your story should have either taken the kids or sorted out somone to mind them OR....her partner should have organised another way to get home. It's too late to be sorry when something has happened to your kids.
mum2bubba
08-10-2010, 11:49
This makes me cringe. I have left Hayley (when she was a baby) in her cot asleep while I went across the road to pick something up, I was gone for no longer than 3 minutes but yeah, don't think I'd be leaving the kids at home to go to the shops or pick up Grant from the train station or anything.
mum2bubba
08-10-2010, 11:54
The laws here don't have an actual age. I rang to enquire about that because a little girl in DD's grade at school is one of the youngest in the grade, turned 6 on June 30 and gets herself to and from school and is home alone in the afternoons until around 5:30/6pm. It's based on maturity and whether or not they are capable of being home alone rather than having an age to it. She said she wouldn't have done it had there not been others around. Her 5 year old knows to come here if there's ever a problem. We might not be home through the day but we're home most nights by about 6 or so. She knows how to cross roads too. The toddler is the one I was concerned about, along with the newborn. The toddler was outside with the 5 year old, not inside with the baby and my concern was that this street is like a drag strip.
But even if people THINK a 6 year old is mature, you don't know what could happen. I mean, she's 6 not 16. My 6 year old knows how to cross roads as well, she knows to stop and look left and right and all that and to listen and look for cars, but there's no way (at this age) I'd let her do that on her own, I wouldn't leave young children home alone like that no matter how mature people think they are.
mum2bubba
08-10-2010, 11:58
And what does the husband think about his wife coming to get him, having left all three kids at home alone????
Exactly! I know if I ever got Grant from work (or the train station as he works in the city) he'd be really p!ssed off at me. Of course he'd ask who was looking after them first...
The mum needs some guidance and those children need protection, like you OP I'd want so badly to believe that me mentioning it to her would be enough, but this wasn't a minor lapse in judgement. :no:
As horrible as it would make me feel for her, as much as I would hate myself if they were removed from her care, I'd report it, because how I feel and how she feels are insignificant against the potential harm to those kids.
PuppyGuts
09-10-2010, 08:52
it doesnt seem to me like shes trying very hard, why couldnt hubby catch a cab? why couldnt he sit at work until baby woke before she went and got him? sorry but that is so, so wrong. no matter how "mature" a five year old may seem.
i feel guilty when it hits like 3.30 and i havent gone to get DD from KINDY before, noway could i leave the actual house with her on her own.
You know in your heart what she is doing is wrong.
You seem to know her and her situation quite well, why don't you talk to her and express your concerns and remind her that she has had to work hard to get her daughter back and what she could stand to lose if docs(or who ever) should find out what she has been doing. Remind her they will take all the children away, and offer to look after them,while she picks up her hubby, if you can.
BreithCuidiu
10-10-2010, 21:33
Hmmm... I'm a foster carer so know the child protection system fairly well. I would report her tomorrow morning. Talking to her will do no good. She'll just withdraw from you and you'll have no idea what those littlies are going through. She may just become very good at hiding her bad parenting and this could prove fatal.
Just this week I was in the kitchen stacking the dishwasher. My six year old DS was safely in the next room playing a Wii game, and baby DFS (6 months old) was in bed sleeping. I heard a choke coming from the baby's room and went in to find him turning grey. DS was crying and had no idea what was going on.
We've now been in hospital since last Tuesday. Baby had an out of the blue asthma attack and is being tube fed and is on oxygen. He could have died.
Now I can't imagine what would have happened if I wasn't even home. My 6 year old would have been left with the guilt for the rest of his life. My kids would have been removed by Community Services, as well we would have been deregistered as carers.
Accidents happen. Especially to toddlers. How would a 5 year old handle that? When Jamie Bulger's 10 year old murderers decided he should live, they put batteries in his mouth to revive him. This is an example of how a child's brain mismanages a crisis situation due to obvious life inexperience.
Children are not suitable carers for other children. No matter what age. No matter how mature.
Report her and sleep better tomorrow night.
missymoo9
10-10-2010, 21:35
Report it! There should be no question about it.
DaughteroftheForest
10-10-2010, 22:09
:eek: Holy ****! No no no. No way is that ok.
How in the world could you walk out the door, get in your car and drive off leaving your NEWBORN behind, let alone a toddler and young child. That's just....I have no words.
What if the baby had wriggled under the bed clothes?
What if the toddler or newborn had started choking?
What if the toddler had run out on the road?
What if the toddler had decided to 'play' with the baby?
What if, what if, what if...? There's too many. far, FAR TOO MANY :no:
I'd call social services. If you don't and something happens....well, it's just to awful to even think about.
oscarsmummy
10-10-2010, 22:12
I wouldn't even leave my 6 year old DS home alone let alone to supervise a toddler and newborn. I live in a quiet cul-de-sac a great neighbourhood in Brisbane but I still lock my front door while I'm outside in the back yard hanging the washing because I believe you can't be too careful.
Her judgement is flawed and personally I think you're a gem for offering but she needs more than "mentoring" by you. Personally I would report her to DOCS but if you're not prepared to do this then perhaps you could look into other services in your area that may intervene. I'm not sure who but perhaps a local parish priest or Salvation Army Officer who would get involved. I don't even know if that's something they'd do but I just couldn't leave it up to her because IMO once is too often for this to have happened.
There's enough bad news on the news without me adding but when I was young a neighbouring 3yo boy burned to death in his bed when his 5yo brother was playing with a lighter in their bedroom. Their parents were home but asleep and were too late to save the 3yo. I'll never forget that and I only lived nearby - I can't imagine how the 5yo has lived with it.
Can you just talk to her? Explain to her that you have no problem ever looking after them for her so it doesn't have to happen again?
from the Op (havent read the rest of the thread) it doesn't sound like she is a 'bad' mum, just that she doesn't think like the rest of us.
She probably just didnt think there was anything too wrong with it?
The sad thing is this probably goes on a lot more than we realise. If she doesn't know it's wrong, like HONESTLY doesn't know it's wrong.....how dumb are some people????? Sorry but really, I don't get it :no:
MummaBear03
12-10-2010, 22:02
The sad thing is this probably goes on a lot more than we realise. If she doesn't know it's wrong, like HONESTLY doesn't know it's wrong.....how dumb are some people????? Sorry but really, I don't get it :no:
My eyes have certainly been opened in the last 4 years that's for sure. First the idiots moved in next door to me, they were fine but just clueless about looking after kids, then they started getting worse and worse and the adults seemed to turn back into teenagers. Then the ones on the other side moved in and although they are lovely people, I'd never met such a close knit, traditional Islander family before. The Islander families and Aboriginal families I'd met were always close, and had traditional values to an extent, but they have taught me so much about what it means to truly hold onto those traditional values. Then these ones moved in over the road a bit over a year ago and it's unbelievable! If it weren't for the fact that some other Hubbers have been to my house and witnessed them, and the ones next door (the ferals next door scare them so much they only visit during the day without their kids!) then what I write here would seem unbelievable! Other Hubbers have met the ones over the road and she is loud and seems proud of the fact that she's ripping off the system, even says how she does it, and also seems proud of the fact that she steals all the time from variety stores as well as supermarkets. I was shocked when the chick over the road told me she was having another baby, although she seems to be putting in heaps of effort now. I know it sounds bad that she left the kids home alone, but if people saw what went on around here that's nothing bad at all! There are kids in this street who stay home at night alone and the parents go to the pub down the street, it's very sad, and even the authorities are reluctant to get involved for some reason.
I used to live in a bubble. I don't anymore. But it does mean people often stay away if they have young kids who like to play outside most of the time. It's just a shame that DD is only allowed outside when the ferals are inside and only with my supervision.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.9 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.