Religion - just about social control?

[curlz]

I have the upmost respect for people who choose to be religious/ spiritual :) ( I used to be a Christian myself) but I have come to wonder if religion - especially Christianity - is implicitly about social control. I'm not saying that a lot of the principles that are espoused are 'bad' (it's not good to kill) but perhaps the development of religion has been society's way of creating constructive order.... before and/or synonymous with the law of that culture. Of course now legal systems are largely separate from religious systems but I think the two are largely interrelated in their history. The sticky thing with religion is that it moves beyond the basic "don't kill" and you get into this black and white mentality which says "do this" and "don't do that". And this good/ bad thing I think is entirely dependant on the culture you are in - which makes religion and good/bad notions such a relative concept. Personally, I don't subscribe to any particular religion b/c I don't think one is any better than the other - it's all a matter of what is most familiar. The world is full of many shades of grey and I don't like the black and whiteness of religion - but then again, maybe that's what people are attracted to - something that can provide them with a sense of structure. Hmmmm, what are your views?

[Mamaduke]

Why 'especially Christianity'?

[Yasmeena]

I think 'especially Christianity' applies to Australian culture/legal system/socially acceptable behaviours because we are essentially a christian country (around 70% of australians identify themselves as christian)

[pookiesossige]

The sticky thing with religion is that it moves beyond the basic "don't kill" and you get into this black and white mentality which says "do this" and "don't do that". And this good/ bad thing I think is entirely dependant on the culture you are in - which makes religion and good/bad notions such a relative concept. Personally, I don't subscribe to any particular religion b/c I don't think one is any better than the other - it's all a matter of what is most familiar. The world is full of many shades of grey and I don't like the black and whiteness of religion - but then again, maybe that's what people are attracted to

Really? It's just 'black and white'? I thought that Jesus's entire life was that of a man who lived in the 'grey'- he broke all the rules and did some outragous things. And he's the one Christians are inspired to follow... :detective:

Also, Christianity (I can't talk for other religions) is a journey of faith. So when I see how God guides me throughout all parts of my life, I can't really ever see myself as believing just for 'security'. And one does not become a Christian thinking that this means they are in for an 'easier' life!!

So, your post would make sense to someone who might identify themselves as Religious but as 'non-practicing'. In that case, you are correct to wonder why they are attracted to the religion and I would wonder the same thing! But I have a personal relationship with God and just like I see this computer in front of me, I see how He has guided and comforted me in times of need (He has- not just a set of beliefs).

Do I make sense? I'm never good at expressing myself in these kinds of threads!! Someone else might be able to do a better job at this then me :rolleyes:

[Yasmeena]

The 'black and white' mentality that curlz is perhaps referring to (correct me if I am wrong curlz:o ) is the dogmatic nature of religious instruction.
for example, christianity, and specific verses in the bible, have told us that homosexuality is 'wrong'. This seems pretty 'black and white' or dogmatic. Some christians accept homosexuality and some don't, it is no longer illegal to be homosexual (though they can't legally marry), but it is not acceptable in some churches.

[B-belle]

I agree with pookiesossiage.(i hope i spelt that right! interesting name btw)
To me religon isn't about social control at all. It is heaps more about faith, and the relationship I have with Jesus and God. If it was just about social control why bother with religon at all?? Why not just obey the law?

[Nan]

I think I understand what you're saying, Curlz, and it's an interesting point you make.
I believe a lot of social problems stem from the fact that soicieties all over the world are trying to fit religion or God or biblical teaching etc into their views and it isn't working. Instead of trying to fit God (whatever your concept of Him may be) into our way of life, we should be fitting ourselves into His way.
JMO, but I think the world would be a much better place if we did things the other way around.
As for the social control aspect, (I can't speak for other countries) in Australia, we had religion before we had government. You mentioned that the world is grey and I agree! Perhaps if we all subscribed to black and white it would be easier for all of us!! There would certainly be less conflict if we all subscribed to the same standards. That is what I like about the Bible. I love that I have a set of standards to live my life by that are moral, make sense and provide me with freedom & security.
Love,
Nan. xx

[curlz]

The 'black and white' mentality that curlz is perhaps referring to (correct me if I am wrong curlz:o ) is the dogmatic nature of religious instruction.
for example, christianity, and specific verses in the bible, have told us that homosexuality is 'wrong'. This seems pretty 'black and white' or dogmatic. Some christians accept homosexuality and some don't, it is no longer illegal to be homosexual (though they can't legally marry), but it is not acceptable in some churches.

Yes, Yasmeena, that is exactly what I'm talking about. I understand that some of the other postings mean that people feel quite comfortable with what they believe in, and the guidelines that come with that. But, and this is just what I feel, there are a lot of prescriptions about how to live with religion generally (though I suppose I'm mainly referring to Christianity b/c that's what I'm most familiar with). Like..... don't sleep together before marriage, don't be homosexual, don't question whether or not Jesus rose from the dead (in fact, don't question anything that the Bible says), don't have women in leadership (though I know this is changing), do believe that Chrisitanity is 'the truth' etc. etc.

Now I know some streams of faith are more liberal than others, but I still do believe that there are a set of prescriptions that people are supposed to go by - that for better of for worse reflect a form of social control. The question I ask myself to all of the above is 'who says?' Who says it's wrong to do this or that or be this or that?

Please don't get me wrong - I am not bashing Christianity or religion :) (I have seen how often people's faith is really sustaining for them) I just like an opporutnity to be open-minded and debate some stuff :detective: . I appreciate listening to all of your different views. And that, by the way, is where I'm at spiritually. I think that it's important to find whatever it is that gives you meaning in life. For me it's a pluralist / relativist approach where no one religion is greater than another but just a reflection of someone's culture and upbringing. You've all be very patient letting me philosophise. Thanks :wave: .

[Nan]

......Now I know some streams of faith are more liberal than others, but I still do believe that there are a set of prescriptions that people are supposed to go by - that for better of for worse reflect a form of social control. The question I ask myself to all of the above is 'who says?' Who says it's wrong to do this or that or be this or that?

Please don't get me wrong - I am not bashing Christianity or religion :) (I have seen how often people's faith is really sustaining for them) I just like an opporutnity to be open-minded and debate some stuff :detective: .....
I don't think your bashing anyone/thing!!! It's healthy to philosophise. I am a little confused however, by your comments above. On one hand you say you believe there are a set of prescriptions that people are supposed to go by, yet you also say you like to be open-minded. I guess I'm confused because if there were a set of prescriptions to go by (I think there are btw, I like to call them guidelines) there isn't really room for open-mindedness. Do you get what I mean? You either go with them or you don't. Sorry if this isn't what you meant!
In answer to the "who says it's right or wrong", my answer would be God. :yes: I can see how if you don't believe in God, you would ask that question, though.
Love,
Nan. xx

[Yasmeena]

Nan - don't you find it disconcerting that the word of 'god' is so malleable to social progression? What 'god says' is not immutable and it is historical fact that schisms occur between religious factions.

[Nan]

Yes, I do find it a little disconcerting. I guess over the years many people have taken things out of the Bible and twisted them to their way of thinking or used them to suit their purposes by taking things out of context etc
When I read, I pray that God will show me what His intent was for the bit I'm reading so that I don't put my own spin on things.
This doesn't just happen with the Bible - it also happens with books like the Koran, with extremist groups taking things out of context or twisting thingsfor their own evil purposes.
This is a part of God giving us the freedom to choose His way or our own way. He doesn't make us do anything! We all have a choice. Some choose the way of peace and some don't, I guess.
Love,
Nan. xx

[Liabella]

Hi all, just gate crashing...

I understand the way that some people seem to think that the Bible can be 'taken' this way or that way.

When i was a new Christian I certainly believed that, but in hindsight, I think I was more looking at some things that I didnt' want to see, believe or face up to, then taking the bits from the Bible I wanted to and just ignoring the bigger picture when it didn't fit what I wanted it to.

After reading more and bigger parts in context of the Bible, I think the one thing that is NOT up for interpretation is God's word. The more you read it, the clearer it becomes.

BUT I think it's EXCELLENT that people are expressing different opinions and asking questions. It's a great way to bring things out in the open and have them discussed.

And did I say Hi??