View Full Version : Crikey! This was a shocker
I was actually swaying towards having my son 'done' until I found this site....
http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/
Make your own mind up of course but after seeing this, both my husband and I wanted to cry.
Please note that I think this site was intended to offend and the pictures ARE VERY GRAPHIC!
I am not an anti-circimcision natzi AT ALL and came upon this site whilst looking for what the heck plastibell meant. As you will see from my further posts I am quite uneducated when it comes to this subject and wanted to share this website for no other reason than I am on a learning curve and this website made my jaw drop. I am not advocating anti-circimcision.
If you're a mum who had her son circimcised, I think you're awesome. Same with mums who decided not to. My son is not born yet and I've no effing clue what I'm doing yet and will probably be asking for advice along the way from you guys who've been there done that.
and please if you're the same as me and on a learning curve, please note that I do believe this site was intended to turn people against it. I don't think they used any anesthetic (which is bloody cruel and if it was done to animals they would be persecuted!), so take it with a grain of salt and see it for what it is.
All the best xx
Thankyou for that!
I have always felt guilty for not having my boys done as i just could'nt find enough reasons to do it although my DH still goes on about it, he thinks we should still get them done, i will be showing this to him later!
Thanks again i can now put the matter to rest for good!
Tamsin
Mum to Bob 10/01
and Toby 10/03
Hi Girls,
We had our son done in March we did have any problems with the plastibell or5 any problems afterwards if derrently comes down to wat u want and how u feel about the whole thing.
Marcy mummy to Samuel :)
madvoice
03-09-2005, 00:19
Thanks for sharing the realities of circumcision. If I were to ever have a son, I'd let him make the decision on whether he wants to be circumsized when he's old enough to get it done himself.
I had my twins boys done at 6 weeks without any problems. Maybe you should also look at the other side of the coin and find a website that shows an infected foreskin? My cousin had to be done at 18 due to an infection and my uncle has just had his done at 50 due to problems. I decided to have my boys done as I feel it is a lot less traumatic at 6 weeks than it is at 18. I asked my husband if he remembered getting done and he couldn't but ask my cousin and he certainly remembers. Once again though it is all personal choice, just thought I'd tell you the other side.
... and some of us don't have the luxury of letting our sons make the decision for themselves - health risks sometimes make the decision for us.
I dont think posting that website was in very good taste. Perhaps telling ppl where they could find this site if interested....and contacting you via email for it, would have been a better idea.
Many surgical procedures would frighten you if you witnessed them. This site was obviously there for SHOCK FACTOR...why show the babies screaming face????..... :confused:
Most people who have done any research into circumcision on the internet prior to the procedure would have seen this site. Yes it is there for shock value and if you use your head you'd realise this.
These days they insert the plastibell over the gland and under the excess foreskin and tie off tie the foreskin onto the plastibell at the point that it falls back naturally. This stops the blood flow, there simply isn't all that blood and gore happening. Then they trim the excess overhanging skin. The remaining mm of dead skin dries up and drops off with the plastibell when it is healed and separates.
Lighten up guys!
Kristy&Alex
05-09-2005, 09:36
Yes I must agree with the past posts & give my 2 cents worth too :rolleyes: that website was obviously used to portray circumcision in the worst possible light & by using graphic, distressing images was in very POOR TASTE! I had my son done at 2 weeks & have never looked back. I would definetly recommend the procedure to anyone deciding to do it, but in no way wish to enter into a debate about the pros & cons of circumcision!! ;) We were told to apply a numbing cream to my sons foreskin every 20 mins for an hour & when he was having it done he didn't have a clue what was going on & seemed quite oblivious to it all. Thanks for letting me have my say :)
sorry if I offended anyone. I did say at the bottom to make your own mind up of course and I appreciate that there are infections etc that require circumcision to fix it. I also said it was a shocker so you didn't have to look if you didn't want to.
Hubby and I were actually researching the pro's and cons when we came across that site. I had heard the plastibell name mentioned and had no idea what it was about so put it in google and presto that's what came up.
Please note that I was all for it because of the benefits and I agree I think that site was for shock value. It certainly worked in putting me off however if my son ever does get an infection then of course it would have to be done.
Anyway, I think it's good that these sites are available and i don't feel guilty posting it here since there are two sides to the coin as one of you said. At the end of the day you do what's best for you and your bub no matter what anyone else says. Same goes for bottle or breastfeeding.
Again I'm sorry if I offended but I think it's good to share the bad with the good on these types of issues.
lisa&boys
06-09-2005, 11:08
I didnt get affended by you posting site. We decided not to get our 3 boys done due to I wouldnt want it done to me. So if they feel later on they are "different" than other boys thenn we will look into it.
But each to their own.
Thanks for sharing
hugs
hi ryally,
i know you probably didn't intend to offend anyone but circumcision is such a controversial subject and i am sure that quite a few members of this forum have had there son/s done and to be honest, probably don't feel like they are able to discuss there issues freely on the forum because of the barage of negative comments from others or the uprising of another for and against argument.
i immediately took offence to your post as my son has been done and quite frankly i think any mother (whether their sons are circumcised or not) would be distressed by such an image. What mother wants their child to be in pain? i think for me it felt like there was a question mark as to how good a mother I am because of it. :( people have there children circumcised for different reasons whether it be personal choice or health issues and need to be able to discuss these things with others for advice and support - isn't that what this forum is for? :confused:
i didn't find your post as supportive or providing positive or productive advice to other parents who are looking for information on the subject - which is what this section of bubhub is for.
BUT, i am certainly not saying that your opinion shouldn't be heard - it is just as important as everyone else's and you should feel free to express it as much as the next person. ;)
please don't think of me as the circ-nazi. I just think that it would be a shame if people stopped posting + advice and support for fear of backlash as has happened in the past.
my 2c
I should have probably added more info in my original post about why I wanted to share it.
I was just so shocked by it that I wanted to show others and forgot that emails and forums can be misinterpreted. I actually would rather cut an arm off before purposely offending anyone especially when it comes to raising kids.
I'm actually irking at the thought of having to deal with a foreskin and am praying it's not going to be difficult to look after. God knows I'm afraid of messing with my husbands (sorry if I grossed anyone out there :) )
Not that I am going to have much experience with my son now :o but I am pretty sure you won't have much to worry about. I think they are pretty self-servicing until they start to retract at a later age. Then they just have to be taught to clean under the foreskin. :)
Gosh, I can't apologise enough for being so absent minded about the circumcision controvesy.
Honestly, I'd never given the idea a thought until I saw it in my birth plan shortly before I went on the internet search for info on the subject.
I was and still am ignorant when it comes to the emotional stress of this subject. My son isn't born yet and I keep forgetting to raise the issue with my doctor. It's just something I don't think about.
Ever get the feeling you've made a big **** of yourself and want to stab yourself in the eye lol.
I can't apologise enough to all you mums. Metaphorically speaking my tail is between my legs in embarrassement and shame. Especially since I haven't checked back on this forum in a few days, so you probably all thought I was a cow who didn't give a toss.
Honestly, I can't articulate the words to say I'm sorry so I'll leave it there.
I think whatever choice you made is great and you're all excellent mums.
hugs to you all xx
Chickadee
06-09-2005, 12:34
I wasn't offended by the post or the web site, though I was shocked at some of the photos. Ryally, maybe you could edit your original post to include a bold warning that the website has graphic photos of the procedure, and anything else you want to add, for future moms and dad's who may be looking for info on Circ and check out your post.
I did find the website informative, though I can't comment on how up to date the method or info is relative to Aussie standards. I'm so glad I had a girl.
oh god - now i feel really bad for making you feel that way. i'm really sorry - it's a bit of an emotive topic for me at the moment as my son was only done three weeks ago and was quite stressful. I ending up not having a choice about it as he kept getting urinary tract infections and it was a last resort to try and stop them from occurring. still don't know if it has fixed the problem.
i didn't realise either that they ask about it on your birth plan - i don't remember having the question asked of me when i did mine. is it normal for them to ask about it?
I was sitting on the floor while hubby bathed our toddler that night flicking through my bounty bag and the little yellowish Johnson and Johnson baby book that has the birth plan thingy in the back and I saw it there.
My reaction "oh holy sh*t! That's right, he's going to have a little fella! OMG!! Do we or don't we?" Hubby's reaction was bug eyed like me and he's like "Oh yeah...I have no idea...umm...well I'm not done and I'm ok" Then we're both looking at each and asking "how do we .....you know....clean it?" LOL!!
And that's about as educated as I get on this subject.
Anyway we rang our respective mums (as you do) and his mum is anti to the nazi level and my mum was pro to the nazi level. So there you go...add a boxing ring and some mud and I say let the grandmothers fight it out. lol.
I hope it has fixed your sons problem, kriscee. I'm so sorry to hear about that. I will probably be in your position a short time from now too, if that's any consolation. you'll probably be the mum who has teh best advice when I come begging for help.
Honestly and be warned, this may get graphic...... I was all for it because I feel sorry for any prospective girlfriend/wife down the track that has to smell what those things pong of at times. i love my hubby but I swear some nights he just doesn't include it in his shower regime (as embarrassing and personal as that is). And if he does it tends to collect every piece of lint from his towel!!
Anyway, that's me and where I'm coming from.
:) Helen
LMAO!
That's hilarious - i do agree though. Not the nicest scent if I do say so. Yes, TMI again. I know. I know. :D
i read this thread before i looked at the link, and from some of your reactions i was expecting something really bias and innacurate, and there are enough of these sites around. But it was just a description of the procedure. why are some of you offended by it? More importantly, why are some of you shocked? Surely you should know what the surgery entails before agreeing to it.
It wasn't even a bodged circumcision. i really can't understand how you can be offended, and if you are...imagine how the baby feels!
somebody mentioned that every kind of surgery, when you think about it, is awful.
this is of course true, and that is why we try to avoid every kind of uneccessary surgery for our children (apart from circumcisin of course).
I have had a really major operation on my jaw, where my upper jaw was actually cut away from my face and moved forward. If you saw pictures of this, no doubt you would be shocked. but the point is, that i chose this surgery for myself and there was a very real need to do it.
the same can't be said for circumcision.
There is not a single other surgery that we would allow our kids to go through if they didnt need it. Removal of breast buds of baby girls actually will prevent breast cancer, but of course this is just insane. I know that many of you cant understand, but some people, myself included also feel like routine circumcision is insane, for the same reasons.
If you can't relate to my point of view, I hope at least you can relate to my basic feeling. i hope we can all agree that removing the breast buds of girls, although the health benefit would far outstretch the claimed benefit of circumcision, simply should not be done.
There is not a single body part which, if removed will not have some kind of health benefit.
circumcision, for me and many others is much less logical than removing girls breast buds. the health benefit of removing breast buds would be obvious, undeniable and at a much greater rate. (penile cancer is rarer than breast cancer in men!).
I don't expect you to take seriously some random website, but surely you can respect the advice of your countrys health authorities?
Briannabear
07-09-2005, 19:43
You've probably taken it a bit far there AndrewJ - its not really neccesary.
People get circumsicion done for different reasons - its unfair to make them feel bad about it.
This is a highly emotive subject - lets keep it friendly. :)
andrewj- It looks like you have only ever posted in circumcision threads. Why is that?? :rolleyes:
Of course people do it for different reasons. But many, (possibly all) of the reasons are very outdated, and are no longer supported by medical science. All i want is for people to know modern medical opinion on the relative benefits and risks of routine circumcision.
It's hard not to appear aggressive when taking this kind of stance, but I am trying to protect the otherwise defenseless children. i dont want to make anyone feel bad. there is absolutely no point in regretting having it done in the past. But if you are in the position of trying to decide now, then i want you to realise that it really is uneccesary and there are very real risks and disadvantages to having it done.
It has become socially acceptable over the years since it was introduced by the sex fearing victorian doctors. But please think about really why you are doing it.
I know people feel insulted that i am intefering with a "personal decision", but infant circumcisin is never a personal decision. It is the kids penis and he will have to live with the results. It is only him that can recommend the procedure, after becoming fully aware of what has happened to him. Whether or not the parents are happy with it, I'm sorry to say really should be irrelevant.
andrewj all you ever do is critisie people who do get there boys circumsised it is none of your business who gets it done at all they are our children and we are the parents who makes that dicision you have no right to tell people it is bad at all so i think you should keep that to your self in the future because u have only posted on circumsion topics and it is really upseting that you always put the people down who do it... we are all friends here and it has made me mad that you always do it sorry i had to get this off my chest...
belinda
Thank you belinda.
You have said what i was just about to say!
andrewj- I would be very surprised if those of us that have looked into circumcision weren't fully educated on all aspects. Yes there are risks involved, there are risks involved in every procedure undertaken but i believe the pain and discomfort felt by a boy with an infection is far more painful. Especially when he is old enough to know what's going on and when he is fully aware of his penis and what it can do.
We all have our reasons for getting it done and it really is no business of yours! You need to go and find yourself another forum to steamroll your opinions!!
BTW, do you even have kids?
o well, someone has to stick up for andrew!
I for one really admire his passion on the subject, and commend him for coming here and offering his POINT OF VIEW - which is what it is, just as a lot of people have differing points of view.
I have to wonder where all the hostility is coming from, if everyone here has made a fully informed choice regarding circ, and is completely happy with their decision, why the need for all the defensiveness?
There are many different people in the world, and it would be completely boring if we all agreed all the time.
Maybe think about giving andrew a little of the respect you claim that he is not extending to you.
There is no law on this public board to say that everyone has to post on every thread, why is it an issue that this member posts on threads which personally interest him, and leaves others?
hi andrewj -
i was just wondering (and this isn't meant in a sarcastic way) but do you have some medical background that qualifies you to make statements like you do?
just wondering...
Chickadee
08-09-2005, 08:34
I had to go back and re-read Andrew's original post. I can't find anything in there which would qualify as an "attack" on people who chose to have their boys circumcised. He expressed his opinion and offered some comparisons to other surgeries, that's it. So lay off of him.
And as far as only posting the circumcision forum, that's his choice. I'm sure all of us tend to post most in those areas where we have experience and feel we can offer information and advice.
Routine Infant Circumcision is NOT a medical issue, it is a human rights one, therefore, Andrews medical background, or lack of, is completely irrelevant.
i was not enquiring if he had any qualification that gave some right to "attack" people. I was talking about the information he was providing in his posts. andrewj seems to provide a lot of information in his posts and i made no reference to attacking people whatsoever. It was a genuine question.
i am quite suprised that whether circumcision is considered routine or not - it would be said that it is not a medical issue seeing as it takes a medical procedure to carry it out and requires consultation with medical practicioners to go ahead with. There is a reason for that.
having said that i am officially bailing out of this one. Once again, this has turned into another for and against argument and I really think it has been re-hashed enough on my part.
I welcome anyone requiring info on my experiences with it to pm me for info. I really don't feel like I can post anymore on this topic. Gets too hot too quick around here.
Sorry, to clarify, if circ is performed without medical indication, is is a medical procedure, but is a human rights issue.
The vast majority of circs are not medically necessary, they are performed for non-medical reasons.
Which, I guess is the crux of the issue for most anti-circ people.
There is just SO much info available on circumcision available over the internet, and from various organisations around these days, most anti-circ advocates are not medical personell, but are extremely knowledgable on the subject.
belinda
andrewj all you ever do is critisie people who do get there boys circumsised it is none of your business who gets it done at all they are our children and we are the parents who makes that dicision you have no right to tell people it is bad.
If another social custom such as foot binding, head binding, or even female circumcision were legally the parents choice in this country (female circumcision was legal only a few decades ago), I would still criticise these things. Even if parents felt like I didnt have a right to, I believe that it would be my duty, and not for my benefit, but for the benefit of the next generation.
Even if you don't agree with me, on male circumcision, i hope that you can at least understand why i am trying to protect the rights of children.
If i decided that removing my daughters breast buds, because it would be healthier for her and "they are our children and we are the parents " , should i be insulted if you tell me that this isnt a very reasonable thing to do?
would you feel like you have no right to tell me that i shouldnt?
I am not trying to attack the people who choose to circumcise. However, I am trying to attack many of the common and outdated reasons. It is onlt relatively recently that doctors have realised that actually infants do feel pain, and for years circumcision was justified on this basis (it doesnt hurt, and it might be healthy, so why not?), but now we know better.
dna13
Yes there are risks involved, there are risks involved in every procedure undertaken but i believe the pain and discomfort felt by a boy with an infection is far more painful.
Any body part can become infected. removing all my teeth would prevent them from rotting and probably save me some pain in the long run. But in this age of running water, this really shouldnt be an issue. If you are reffering to a reduced risk of UTI's, which is the only undeniable health benefit from circumcision, I don't believe that this should be an issue either, as UTI's can be diagnosed on the spot and easily treated.
I completely understand that no parent wants to hear that they have not done what is best for their child, but my aim isnt criticising you for past mistakes, only preventing future ones.
I am not trying to win an argument, I don't have anything to gain by being "right", and I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad.
All i'm asking is that if faced with the decision in the future, you take an unbias look at the modern advice from the worlds health authorities.
kriscee
i was just wondering (and this isn't meant in a sarcastic way) but do you have some medical background that qualifies you to make statements like you do?
I actually do, but this is irrelevant. It is known as "appeal to authority" when this ir considered relevant. In other words, what I say is judged, not on its content or evidence but by the authority of the person. Anybody can be wrong, whether they are Mr Average Joe, or Professor Winklestein, the worlds leading authority on foreskins. I hope that what I say speaks for itself, and have provided or can provide evidence for every single thing (apart from the existence of professor Winklestein).
Even Mr Average Joe, is qualified to repeat the advice of the medical authorities.
Anybody can say that the Royal Australasian College of Physicians has concluded that there is "no medical reason for routine male circumcision "
There are of course social reasons, but then, how is routine circumcision any different from foot binding?
who cares!
No offence andrewj but you seem preoccupied with this subject and that of 'breast buds' and having read through all your ten or so posts it still leaves me thinking you've studied first year med and that was the only class you sat in on which is why you keep rehashing the same stuff time and time again.
I'm going to discuss this subject with my GP and if I'm still undecided I will be asking the mums on this forum who have kids and have had them circumcised as well as those who haven't about their stories.
I'd appreciate not being brow beaten with hair splitting subjects on breast buds and foot binding which is totally irrelevant to what I'm trying to research. It does not and has not helped me towards making an educated decision with regards to my son.
I'm starting to feel like if I want to ask about this, I'm going to have to privately message the mums from this forum to prevent a full scale witch hunt.
Have a nice day
Helen
what else do you need to know other than that
"there is no medical reason for routine male circumcision "
this is why foot binding is relevant. If there is no medical reason, the reason is a social or customary one.
I'm with you AndrewJ & the comparisons you make ARE spot on IMO.
It's always interesting to me that so many women feel so passionately about this subject (and defend their right as a parent to inflict this procedure upon their sons) but if men were to start advocating such procedures for their little girls - the world would go ballistic!
Routine circ is no longer recommended or supported by any of the major health authorities across the world and there are few doctors in every state in teh country who will perform it - for a good reason - it's just not necessary and is cruel and ******** and I too oject on the grounds of defending a childs human right to decide what happens to his own body if at all possible.
Say what you will - abuse all you like - the facts speak for themselves.
T
ThomasMum
08-09-2005, 09:30
Well-done you once again, MarthaM for helping us to understand that it is important to respect other peoples opinion, eventho we are totally disagree with their opinions.
Just a little note here from my experience, not long ago I too was being absolutely abused by some people here online when clearly what I did was making statement. I was branded for attacking these people, no matter how hard I tried to explain that I didn't attack them or how many apologies I made, these people mercilessly shamelessly abused me and didn't want to hear my explanation-as far as their concerns, their opinions are valid and mine wasn't! Now isnt that just sad?
Luckily I don't take peoples abuse to my heart, especially from people who I only met online.
So please folks, be gentle be kind to others, just because other people have different opinions doesn't mean that they are wrong.
You should (well I shouldn't say this) be grateful that there are people like AndrewJ who's obviously very passionate about this topic, and I don't see any negative/inflammatory comment on his posts.
Well thats my 2c. I'm outta here, have a good one!
Kind Regards,
ML
PS. Just an extra info: my Dad & my older brother both are OB/GYN and none of the boys in our family had been circumcised, and we are not planning to have our wee lil Thomas done either :)
and again I reiterate, I will be discussing this with my GP about the pros and cons and risks associated with UTI's and infections etc.
I've had enough of this forum now, it's proven to be of no help except to cause a stir and create yet another podium for 'foreskin right to lifers'.
I don't need my son to be protected by andrewj or his cheerleaders, I'm no abuser thank you very much. FFS my son isn't even born yet lol! This is all hypotheticals to me.
At the end of the day, I will make the decision with regards to my childrens care regardless of what mr wannabe human rights or anyone else says.
If circimcision turns out to be something I choose - with all due respect you can kiss my rear end.
Write what you will in reply, I'm not coming back to this forum. In my opinion this subject is closed. I'll make my own mind up without further opinions from this forum.
Briannabear
08-09-2005, 10:31
I think its easy to be mis-understood in a forum situation. We arent there in person talking to everyone. We cant see body laguage, or hear the different tones in voices, or see their faces. What might be written seemingly harmlessly can easily be misinterpreted by someone else. Everyone has different lives, feelings, upbringings etc, so maybe we ALL need to take that into consideration.
Im all for people expressing different points of view, so lets keep it friendly and supportive rather than negative. (particularly on emotive subjects). :)
Sorry but on this thread I am sure the title under Bub Hub Community Forums, Circumcision, was "POSITIVE ADVICE AND SUPPORT FOR THOSE INVESTIGATING CIRCUMCISION". Maybe those who want to give NEGATIVE ADVICE AND SUPPORT should post their threads in the General Chat area. And no, I do not feel bad at all and do not feel I have to defend my decision, and I think in this particular part of the forum, no-one should.
yes ..advice for those "investigating" it, not simply advice for those choosing it anyway.
POSITIVE being the operative word mate.
Surely it goes with out saying that i consider my advice positive.
I've just finished reading all the posts in this thread (took a while!) and wanted to say that I'm also disappointed Andrew has been attacked for sharing not just his opinion on the subject, but also some facts to support it. Isn't that what this forum is for?? :confused:
I believe that people make the best decisions they can with the information they have available. If new information becomes available that indicates perhaps a different decision might have been more appropriate, there's nothing to be gained by: a) regretting what's been done; or b) shamelessly attacking the person who offered the new information! But if you, or another person, is faced with the same decision in the future - perhaps a different decision will be made based on the new information. Or perhaps not. That's your choice.
If I was happily eating raw fish by the bucket during my pregnancy - for example - and someone pointed out the reasons that's not a good idea, I would hardly screech at the person to mind their own damned business since it's MY body and my baby and I've eaten raw fish for all this time and I appear to be just FINE thank you very much. I know it sounds comical. Who would do that? But to me, what is happening here is exactly the same.
As AndrewJ said, this part of the forum is for people INVESTIGATING circumcision. I think those people who really are investigating the issue would prefer to hear both sides of the argument.
jlrjyeboah
12-09-2005, 10:16
"Positive advice and support for those investigating circumcision"
ok, I guess that's a matter of interpretation. I see that 'positive advice and support' could be interpreted as information supporting the decision to circumcise.. in which case the word 'investigating' is obsolete. I was more focused on the word investigating meaning seeking information prior to making a decision. :rolleyes:
I assume that's where AndrewJ was coming from too.
jackieb76
13-09-2005, 13:37
I think that if you can justify your reason to yourself then go for it. There are many different reasons why parents choose to have their sons circumsized from religious to health reasons.
What I do not understand is women like the one I had in my antenatal class who said: "If I have a boy he will be circumsized because we do a lot of camping" Oh my goodness how can that possibly be a valid reason to get it done? another one that I have heard is that it is done "So that they will look the same as Daddy" or they might look different to other boys. Let me tell you that I have worked in many child care centres and it is the ones that are circumsised that look different and are the odd ones out.
How many boys do you know of that have had infections from having a foreskin? I know of quite a few that have had infections (almost life threatening) from being circumsized. I don't believe that anyone here has brought up the subject of teaching your child to clean behind his foreskin (when old enough) are people too lazy to do this.
Sorry if I have sounded rude but this is something that I am passionate about also.
Just wanted to ask, was anyone with their sons whilst the proceedure was being done?
Here here andrewj I am with you, if I said that I was having my daughter circumsized then people would be horrified.
mollyandkurtsmum
13-09-2005, 15:46
just to throw in my 10 cents worth my favorite reason for circ is "I didnt want him to be different from his dad" it makes me laugh as how many of us girls have looked at our mothers vaginas and compared them to ours??? I happen to agree completely with andrews opinion and would love to hear of one reasonable intelligent reason for circing . I know this post should make me very popular and Im not attacking anyone Im just extremely curious as too what makes somebody want to do this to their sons.
Briannabear
13-09-2005, 15:55
I dont think this thread is going anywhere.
Nobody who supports circumsicion would be game to post their reasons why they did it, for fear of strong critisicm.
The majority of people here seem to oppose it.
Everyone has their own reasons (either for or against), and nobody has the right to criticise them for that.
Maybe it should end here before too many people get offended. Thats not what anyone wants.
Im all for people having a say and speaking their mind, but sometimes its just a bit hurtful and unneccesary.
Lets keep it friendly! :)
Becca, I totally agree that this is one of those topics that gets really heated and usually ends up going nowhere.. much like the breast/bottle feeding or the controlled crying/no-cry sleeping debates.
What disappoints me is that I have found a lot of information posted on topics such as those above that has INFORMED my decision (when I have my child) about how I choose to raise it. Information - not personal opinion! I totally value being able to have access to that information. And yet, time and again, when I see that information posted, there are countless people who are SO offended that the whole thing seems to end up in a cat-fight. Women who post information that supports breastfeeding are howled down for it by other women who made a different decision for whatever reason - just like AndrewJ has been for posting his views on circumcision.
My observation is that the people who get nasty and personal are those who for whatever reason feel guilty for their decision. If they made a rational, informed decision and felt TOTALLY comfortable with it, I don't think there'd be quite the same level of defensiveness and aggression. IMHO only. ;)
I too would really like it if it could be kept friendly so that everyone could have access to information without anyone being afraid (or too fed up) to post their views.
PS... Clearly my frustration isn't just with the circumcision thing so perhaps my posts are in the wrong spot. I just get really annoyed by the aggression that comes out when people have their views challenged.
That's all. :o
Briannabear
14-09-2005, 07:43
I understand and agree with a lot of what you are saying Cosmic! The fact still remains though that people supporting circumcision are unlikely to post their feelings due to critisicm.
All Im saying is that the posts can be taken a lot more negative than they are intended to be!
jackieb76
14-09-2005, 09:55
If someone is absolutely truely confident about their reasons for choosing to have their child circumcised then why would they fear posting their thoughts in case they are criticised?
This should not really be looked at as being a debate but more so a place to share experiences and knowledge. I am not asking anyone to justify their decision, like I said as long as you can justify it to yourself.
I was just sharing my own opinions and I am sorry if I have offended anybody. I think that people should be very well informed before making this life changing decision for and on behalf of your child.
I fould this to be a very interesting article: http://www.naturalparenting.com.au/index.php?id=171&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=28&tx_ttnews[backPid]=203&cHash=da5210e499 about the original reasons why it was thought the circumcision was necessary. I wonder what would happen if male circumcision became illegal in Australia? Would it be pushed underground like abortion once was or would people travel overseas to have it done? Or would everyone just accept the new law? Interesting questions don't you think.
This doesn't need to be a slagging match, just a discussion.
By the way I understand what you mean about things being taken out of context. There is one particular person on this site that (intentionally or unintentionally) is making women feel somewhat guilty for having pain relief during labour.
Anyway, that is my 2c.
Take care.
Jackie :)
Jackie, Thanks for posting that link. I think it was great! That's the kind of information I think all parents should have access to.
After reading the views on this forum, I asked my DH yesterday whether he would want our son circumcised and his first answer was 'Absolutely!'. It seemed to be an automatic response and when pressed for his reasons, he could only suggest that it is cleaner and that he doesn't want his kid to be made fun of!
When I pointed out that circumcised boys are in the minority now, and that the 'cleaner' argument doesn't hold water with any medical association, he immediately changed his mind and said he would of course look at all that information before making a decision - but on the whole was very happy to avoid putting a small baby through such an experience if there is no need for it!
I know everyone on here has said there are reasons for making the decision to circumcise - but I worry that some of those reasons are similar to my DH's first reaction and not grounded in solid, substantiated, factual information.
I'm going to close this thread down now because it's all a bit heated.
Everybody has a right to an opinion, and whilst circumcision is still legal in Australia, others can ask for advice and help IF they are considering circumcision or have already gone through the process.
If you don't agree with circumcision there really is no need to visit this section of the forum. Please don't attack others or be agressive and insulting on the forum.
Thank you
Hilary
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