No School=No Sport initiave - and more chaplains in schools if Labor is elected

[KatiesMum]

CHILDREN who do not attend school will be prevented from playing sport if Labor is re-elected on August 21.

Julia Gillard unveiled a No School No Play initiative that will involve major sporting codes implementing a policy of not playing kids who wag school.


The Prime Minister said the initiative would be voluntary but was confident sporting clubs would back the proposal.


“We will work with our great sporting codes so that when kids play sport on the weekend, one of the questions for them, one of the things that the sporting organisations is seeking to achieve so that kids have been in school,” Ms Gillard said.
“I want kids to get the skills they need for life and work, kids can only get those skills if they are at school.”


Ms Gillard also announced a boost to the school chaplaincy program, extending it to an extra 1000 schools.

Ms Gillard said the 2700 schools already participating in the program would also have their funding guaranteed until the end of 2014.


The religion issue has been a sleeper in Queensland, and the program extension will be welcomed by some Queensland MPs attempting to appeal to religious sections of their electorates.


What do you think?

1 - no school, no play .... is not really something I am keen to see as policy, and CERTAINLY not something I want seen tied to government funding.

For some kids it will work as encouragement to attend school ... but for many others all it will mean is that they dont play sport. We already have major health issues in young people. Forcing sporting groups to exclude them wont help.

2 - Chaplains in Schools - I also think is a bad idea. School Counsellors and School Guidance Officers - great. Chaplains of any kind of religious denomination in public schools is a bad idea.

Thumbs down from me for both of these ideas :thumbsdown:

[catch 22]

Great labor and the libs pushing religion in schools. One side wants chaplans the other religious education. Who should i vote for? Family first? They ard a christian party too. I am mad at labor over this.

Also what about homeschooling families? Can the children still do sport? Or maybe they shouldnt be allowed to mix with school educated children.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

I think your thread title is atrociously misleading, irresponsibly so.

I think that if you don't go to school , you can't play sport is great.

I think that chaplains is idiotic, and there should be counsellors instead.

[SassyMummy]

I agree with Mrs N - if you wag, there's got to be some sort of punishment.

I don't want chaplains in schools though - which, again, is another reason I'm voting The Greens.

[nothanksbye]

I think your thread title is atrociously misleading, irresponsibly so.

I think that if you don't go to school , you can't play sport is great.

I think that chaplains is idiotic, and there should be counsellors instead.

:iagree::iagree:

[KatiesMum]

thread title is taken from title of article in the age (which was 'Go to school or miss sport : Gillard' (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/got-to-school-or-miss-sport-gillard-warns-children/story-fn59nlz9-1225902652495))

To me the thread title is pretty accurate, but am open to suggestions?????


The article states it is Voluntary ... but if you read the rest of the article, it says '2700 schools already participating will have their funding guaranteed till 2014.'

[sam's mum]

I don't agree with no school no play.

you are essentially taking kids who are disengaging from organised main stream activities and preventing them from taking part in an organised main stream activity.

those that truly love their sports may still go to school just so that they can play sport, but I don't think that this will really have the desired outcome.

[Ana Gram]

Ok with no sport if you don't attend school, not ok with chaplains in schools.

After watching Abbott this morning, I will do anything for Lib's NOT to get in.

[Nomsie]

If they want to put kids back in school, bring back truancy officers. Don't take away something that is a huge positive influence in a lot of kids lives when there aren't a lot of other positives around. :(

Chaplains- are fine IF they don't push religion, but are more of a counsellor. My high school chaplains were both like this, and I have enormous respect for them.

Not happy with this at all Labor- this plan sucks. :(

[HowCrazyCool]

For someone who couldn't go to school for many different reasons through my schooling i think its a horrible idea. no school no play. it really is a joke.

Religion in public schools is not something i am interested in. I would be fine with it if every involvement of the Chaplin and things was voluntary but i am guessing that would not be the case.

[nothanksbye]

But its not punishment for homeschoolers or children that leave school.

Its punishment for younger kids who WAG school.

It deletes the whole..you are good at sport so you dont need school thing.

The chaplain thing...well maybe they could put more chaplains in churches, for familys who need them?

[missie_mack]

I heard this today on the radio and both DH and I agreed (and DH teaches in high schools) that generally children who wag don't play sports anyway. The ones this will hurt will be football players and primary school students. And really with primary school students whilst they may be truant its often with their parents knowledge anyway *shrug* I do think bringing back truancy officers would be a better move :yes:

Dunno much about chaplains in schools. They weren't in public schools when I went, we just had counselling services. Dhs experience tells me very few of them push religion as such anyway but I don't really understand why they *have* to be chaplains and why it can't be anyone. Aren't religious chaplains/ministers/priests in shortage at the moment anyway?? :confused:

[silverstars]

Compared to Tony Abbott's extreme beliefs this is nothing. :laughing:

[Pippi Longstocking]

I am entirely opposed to chaplains being tax-payer-funded, as this flies in the face of a clear separation between church and state. What our children need, and deserve, are real, secular, qualified counsellors. Maybe then we'd see a reduction in truancy...

But yeah, I think voting for LNP because Labor want to fund more chaplains is likely to end up with a bullet in one's foot...;)

[Mrs Nietzsche]

The only reason my DH finished highschool (despite his parents making him work fulltime after school at maccas from the age of 15 and paying his own way) is because of sport.

[MsTruth]

I think that the chaplain policy is an attempt to placate the Christian lobby groups who have been very vocal about not wanting an atheist prime minister.

the no school no play policy is also just a bit of fluff and shouldn't be given much attention

[flicker]

I think your thread title is atrociously misleading, irresponsibly so.

I think that if you don't go to school , you can't play sport is great.

I think that chaplains is idiotic, and there should be counsellors instead.

i think when you read on it sounds pretty clear.


I heard this today on the radio and both DH and I agreed (and DH teaches in high schools) that generally children who wag don't play sports anyway. The ones this will hurt will be football players and primary school students. And really with primary school students whilst they may be truant its often with their parents knowledge anyway *shrug* I do think bringing back truancy officers would be a better move :yes:



i agree with that missiemack. The kids that were caught wagging at the school i teach at, had no interest in sport.

I have no opinion on the chaplin bit, as i think it is a pie in the sky promise anyway.

but it does not seem that she is putting much faith in parents and schools?? Should it not be up to a parent to see that their child stays in school. where is the responsibility supposed to lie? If the parents dont monitor it, the principals and schools should be building up strong concequences to waggers? give them more funding and they will have more time to deal with issues like this.

[ElizaDoLittle]

Sheesh! Thanks for the link and info katies mum, your title seems fine to me :confused:

[Benji]

I think both are a bad move, a lot of the time children who are truanting are "off the rails" and if, in the unlikely event, they are really into sport it may be the one thing that keeps them grounded in later life.

As for the chaplins, I don't quite understand WHY they want more chaplins.

But I would still prefer Labor to be elected as opposed to Libs, they are still much lesser of two evils IMO.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

I read it 'no school - no sport' as if labor are going to cut back on schools and sports funding.

A lot of people just read thread titles and don't bother opening the thread.

[CrankyAndTired]

If they want to put kids back in school, bring back truancy officers. Don't take away something that is a huge positive influence in a lot of kids lives when there aren't a lot of other positives around. :(

Chaplains- are fine IF they don't push religion, but are more of a counsellor. My high school chaplains were both like this, and I have enormous respect for them.

Not happy with this at all Labor- this plan sucks. :(


Sheesh! Thanks for the link and info katies mum, your title seems fine to me :confused:

:iagree:

AND

:iagree:

:D

[KatiesMum]

I read it 'no school - no sport' as if labor are going to cut back on schools and sports funding.

A lot of people just read thread titles and don't bother opening the thread.

ahh now I understand your issue. :doh:

How about that? hopefully might be clearer :)

[petalwings]

I don't think there is nearly enough sport in school as it is, and how are the kids who are not allowed to participate going to be supervised? More teachers? Seriously...
As for chaplins- the more the better. I don't think they are fully govt funded and I've never ever met a chaplain who pushes religion on kids. Chaplains seem to be the ones who hold the school together in times of crisis.

[*Cj*]

As for chaplins- the more the better. I don't think they are fully govt funded and I've never ever met a chaplain who pushes religion on kids. Chaplains seem to be the ones who hold the school together in times of crisis.


:iagree: All the kids at DD school love their school chaplain. She has Fun with the kids, goes and play's with them at lunch breaks. Help's out in the class room's. Work's with all the special needs kids.

My DD has really bad anxiety at time's, If they have a relief teacher she some time's has a BIG melt down. The school chaplain goes and work's in the class room with my DD to make sure she is all right with the relief teacher. If DD is coping then she will leave her with the relief teacher. If she is not coping she will stay in the class room for the day or take DD out of class room for the day.

Our school chaplain has never pushed religion onto the kids. They do religion study's the school chaplain has nothing to do with it that's not what she is their for.

[nothanksbye]

I think they are talking about saturday sport..not school sport.

Hence them talking to clubs???

as for the chaplain, I am sure they might not PUSH religion on kids, but they are bound to have to answer questions with religious answers.

That is where the problem lies. It would be quite silly to assume that a chaplain wont talk about religion...and I dont want that for my kids.

I want counselling and support that is not based on religious beliefs.

[Guest]

I think they're both bad ideas.
I don't like sport being used as punishment, sport should be seen as a positive thing for children and not associated with class or school time.
I also don't like chaplins as councillors, yes they're religious based, it doesn't belong in schools.
If children are wagging school or having emotional issues, they need to put more money into highly trained counsellors (not religious based) and maybe more training for teachers to recognise who needs this sort of help (not saying they don't now, but in my school, teachers didn't really care or notice who the kids with home issues were)

[Baldie's Mum]

sport and physical activity should NEVER be used as a punishment. We as parents, teachers, aunts, uncles, carers, grannies ect should make sport and physical activity as fun and enjoying not a privillage.
You wag school, how bout detention. Make the school and parents follow through with discipline, not the sports clubs or the team.

Religion in school................ :rolleyes: Religion should be for a family to teach, not a public school.

[Ana Gram]

as for the chaplain, I am sure they might not PUSH religion on kids, but they are bound to have to answer questions with religious answers.

That is where the problem lies. It would be quite silly to assume that a chaplain wont talk about religion...and I dont want that for my kids.

I want counselling and support that is not based on religious beliefs.

Totally agree. What is wrong with a school counsellor??

[*Cj*]

as for the chaplain, I am sure they might not PUSH religion on kids, but they are bound to have to answer questions with religious answers.



I have spoken to our school chaplain a lot about my DD. Not once has any thing to do with religion been brought into the conversation. She does not answer questions with a religious answer.

[Pippi Longstocking]

I have spoken to our school chaplain a lot about my DD. Not once has any thing to do with religion been brought into the conversation. She does not answer questions with a religious answer.

Neither would a secular school counsellor...:)

[*Cj*]

Neither would a secular school counsellor...:)


Would a school counsellor do all the thing's I have listed in my post above? Or would a counsellor by seen to have a diffrent role in the school then a chaplain??

[nothanksbye]

Just a few things that I found...
http://www.deewr.gov.au/Schooling/NationalSchoolChaplaincyProgram/Pages/nscp_frequently_asked.aspx#whatisaschool

Chaplains will be expected to respect the range of religious views and affiliations, and cultural traditions in the school and the community, and be approachable by students of all faiths. While recognising that an individual chaplain will in good faith express his or her belief and articulate values consistent with his or her denomination or religious belief, a chaplain should not take advantage of his or her privileged position to proselytise for that denomination or religious belief.


Pastoral care:
Providing guidance to students on issues concerning human relationships;
Assisting school counsellors and staff in the provision of student welfare services;
Providing support in cases of bereavement, family breakdown or other crisis and loss situations; and
Being readily available to provide continuity and on-going support for individual students and staff where this is necessary.
Spiritual guidance:
Supporting students to explore their spirituality;
Providing guidance on religious, values and ethical matters; and
Facilitating access to the helping agencies in the community, both church-based and secular.


It is important to note that school chaplains cannot provide services for which they are not qualified, for example, counselling services or psychological assessment, or medical assessment.

[motherev2two]

I dislike the idea with the rising numbers of childhood obesity it would be a silly idea but that is just me, when I was at school the waggers did not like sport anyway and had a problem with authority so also steered clear of weekend sport events.

I prefer school counselor over chaplains

[MummaBear03]

I think the government needs to do something in order to get kids into school. Stopping Centrelink payments was never going to work. I don't know if this is the right thing either, but there are way too many kids failing to be taken to school and their future is being ruined by the day.

[flicker]

it baffles me why parents cant take thier kids to school? if they cant do this, what else are they doing? very sad. :no:
I wish that banning them from sport would solve the problem, but it is sadly no where near an answer.

[delirium]

I support the 'no school, no sport' initative. But I don't support the chaplaincy program. I would much prefer qualified counsellors than religious people.

[Ana Gram]

Do we think that perhaps it is cheaper to pay chaplains than it is to pay an actual professional?

[Mrs Nietzsche]

I suppose it is AG

But what about people who have done the Diploma in Youth Work or Cert 4? Would that not be qualification enough (at least as much as chaplain).

I think if people want assistance with religious issues then the facility should be there to refer them, but I certainly do not go for the title 'chaplain' as a sort of umbrella for student support services/ religious indoctrination/ teaching ethics.

Ethics and religion are not the same thing, having a chaplain advise on them suggests that they are.

eta could an atheist be a chaplain??

[MissSookyLaLa]

the sport thing is just a voting stunt.

Kids who play sport on the weekend aren't the kids who are skipping school.

Kids who are skipping school are disengaged with organised activities of all kinds.

This isn't the answer to school truancy.

I don't really have an issue with the chaplains. Any extra support for kids in school is ok by me.

[*Cj*]

Do we think that perhaps it is cheaper to pay chaplains than it is to pay an actual professional?


I was thinking all so that maybe there is more chaplains then school counsellors. This is for NSW

BECOMING A SCHOOL COUNSELLOR


To become a school counsellor, you must have:
completed training as either a primary or secondary teacher
a current approval to teach with NSW DET
undertaken a psychology major approved by the Australian Psychology Accreditation Council (APAC) at a level that is required by Universities for entry into postgraduate study in psychology
demonstrated at DET interview with DET personnel successful teaching experience and the personal, professional and academic suitability to work as a school counsellor
cleared probity checks to work with students in a school setting
completed a DET and APAC approved postgraduate school counsellor training program which includes psychological assessment of school aged students, child and adolescent psychology and a DET approved practicum in schools
eligibility for registration (full or provisional) as a psychologist in NSW.




https://www.det.nsw.edu.au/employment/teachnsw/brochures.htm#schoolcounsellor

[Mrs Nietzsche]

Exactly what qualifications does a chaplain even have? I would prefer more than 'a nice person who believes in jesus' as quals to advise my child.

[Angelmist♥]

it baffles me why parents cant take thier kids to school? if they cant do this, what else are they doing? very sad. :no:

Can I just ask what exactly you mean by that? Do you think if parents took their children to school every day, they wouldn't wag?
:laughing:My mum dropped me off nearly every day, didn't stop me wagging at all.


the sport thing is just a voting stunt.

Kids who play sport on the weekend aren't the kids who are skipping school.

Kids who are skipping school are disengaged with organised activities of all kinds.

This isn't the answer to school truancy.

I don't really have an issue with the chaplains. Any extra support for kids in school is ok by me.
Actually, I was always into sport (as were my friends) but not into high school much :D

I know heaps of sporting kids who skip school. I think it's a bit of a naive statement sorry.
Oh and just because I'm questioning these statements, doesn't mean I like the idea of the policy :)

[Father]

I'm not phased about the chaplain idea.

But the 'no sport' idea is ridiculous. I think it would be counter-productive. Rather than steer these kids in the right direction, we will just force them to entertain themselves on the weekends. Computers? Alcohol? Drugs? Much better to have them on a sports field.

[Ana Gram]

I am possibly swayed on the no sport idea as the reason I wagged so much school was because of the block head, knuckle draggers who played sport.

[Guest]

I wagged school and was always in trouble. yet weekends were my sports days, especially being part of a dancing group. That was my life, if they banned me because of my performance at school, I'd have had nothing and turned to drugs even younger.
Kids who wag school are not disengaged from everything, they're kids who don't like school or want a day off, simple as that.
btw, can you imagine all the great sports people we wouldn't have if they weren't allowed to play their sport because they didn't like school???

[flicker]

Can I just ask what exactly you mean by that? Do you think if parents took their children to school every day, they wouldn't wag?
:laughing:My mum dropped me off nearly every day, didn't stop me wagging at all.


Actually, I was always into sport (as were my friends) but not into high school much :D

I know heaps of sporting kids who skip school. I think it's a bit of a naive statement sorry.
Oh and just because I'm questioning these statements, doesn't mean I like the idea of the policy :)


please dont laugh at me, it does not feel nice.
What i meant was, there are a lot of primary age children, not attending school because their parents for some reason or another are too lazy or drugged out to get them to school regularly. the comment was in relation to the stopping of welfare payments that the governement tried, but was not all that effective. this is what i think is sad. if you wagged school, well that is partly your responsibility.

[ComeBackKid]

i was never interested in sport and in fact along with french, it was the only class i wagged. I disagree with this policy. Whatever happened to the obesity crisis and wanting kids to be active? As previously mentioned, if its such a big issue bring back truancy officers. And the chaplaincy policy is so ridiculous it doesnt warrant a response.

[Izy]

1. I think good for some areas. Of course this will be voluntary, and slme communities hold sporting codds in such high regards this will work. There is a small town in qld that reduced domestic violence in their community by over 50% using the same basic idea.

2. Good idea to have more xupport in schools, but ffs make it non secular.

As for family first... After seeing whats her face talking about gay marriage, never never never. She actually said gaymarriage is legalising child abuse. That it would destroy australia and our children. :hissy:

[Pippi Longstocking]

Regarding school chaplains, has anyone read the submission by the Australian Psychological Society to the Consultation Process for the National School Chaplaincy Program (http://www.psychology.org.au/Assets/Files/APS-Submission-School-Chaplains-July2010.pdf)? The APA is Australia's largest professional association for Psychologists and have been (quite rightly) scathing of the school chaplaincy program. The paper is well worth a read, it's only 9 pages and not overly academic for those that don't want to feel as though they're wading through difficult documents. :p
Some key comments taken from the paper...


Although the APS is aware that school chaplains represent an alternative approach to student support in government schools in the way of spiritual and religious guidance, the APS believes that, when chaplains work outside of this role, the risks to both students and schools are immense and will ultimately result in significant costs both financial and human.

The recent announcement of another $165 million over three years towards the NSCP, in the absence of any reliable safeguards to limit the role of school chaplains, is unacceptable. The main concerns of the APS include:
* That the government is supporting a scheme which allows unregistered and unqualified school chaplains to work outside their boundaries as spiritual and religious personnel;
* That there is clear evidence that school chaplains are engaging in duties for which they are not qualified;
* That there is clear evidence that church organisations and ministries are supporting school chaplains‟ in their boundary violations;
* That the NSCP promotes a combination of religious guidance and mental health service provision, which is in contrast to mainstream evidence-based service provision;
* That the government is complicit in encouraging dangerous professional behaviour by funding school chaplains independently of other services carried out by professionals who are both qualified and registered.



Hughes and Sims (2009) asked chaplains to report on the frequency by which they deal with various student issues. The study reveals that 72% of chaplains indicated that they deal with student mental health and depression issues, 50% deal with student alcohol and drug use, 62% deal with physical and emotional abuse and neglect, 44% deal with students who are considering suicide or who are self-harming, 40% deal with issues of student sexuality, and 81% deal with issues around grief and loss.

I agree with the authors of the paper. These chaplains are dabbling in counselling with insufficient training - training it has taken me FOUR YEARS to learn at university. For this reason, they pose a threat to our children. I think my children, our children, all children deserve access to fully qualified counsellors, not pseudo support there primarily

a. to make God’s Good News known to children, young people and families and
b. to encourage people of all ages to meet God daily through the Bible and prayer so that they may come to personal faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, grow in Christian maturity and become both committed church members and servants of a world in need.

Get them out of our schools and bring in decent, qualified professionals. Our kids deserve it.

[delirium]

We have a pastor at DD's school who seems like a great man. But the bottom line is there is a reason why qualifications for counsellors/sw's can take up to 4 years to complete - bc it takes that long to not just have the counselling skills they need, but to deal with the complex issues why the child is coming to counselling.

I wouldn't want an unqualified dr writing scripts for my kids and this is no different.