child support increased assessment going on DH's ex trip to Bali!!

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

Really annoyed today as my DH rang ex to say change of assesment all through and we would be paying her said amount tomorrow and the CSA collecting then monthly...she said oh thats great! can you have the kids for 2 weeks sometime before Xmas so I can go to Bali:banghead: ...same woman who told us a month or so ago she didnt have any money and could we help more ie: buy clothes for the kids, food and stuff...we cant even afford to go to Bali or now buy the kids anything extra as we are paying her 836 a month...I wouldnt mind if the kids were going too or knew she would spend any more on the kids clothes (she still tried to ask us to give her clothes too). I feel so much for my step children who live in virtual poverty although their mother gets nearly 2000 a month from us, welfare etc...and this last comment really takes the biscuit!! Needless to say my DH works rosters and cant take 2 weeks off anyway and we certainly not going to make it easy for her to do that...unless she decides to start making the kids lives a bit better too...sorry real rant but I am so sick of a system that says they cant interfere in how the money spent and not check that welfare for the kids and support from us for the kids actually goes on clothes food etc and not cigarettes, drugs, nights out, clothes for her and now a holiday! She doesnt even have to go to work when her 4 year old in daycare all day twice a week and kindy 2 mornings and 1 full day a week...the govt just pay her to sit on her butt!!:banghead:

[brizbabe]

That sucks!!!!!

Maybe you can look into "non agency payments" or "prescribed payments" as an alternative CSA option......


http://www.csa.gov.au/fact/2757.php

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

thanks - no we tried that but she wont do as she actually said she wants the money...so sad :( as we would rather give her these types of payments to ensure the kids dont miss out...

[M O P]

Oh Georgie, how frustrating for you all!
Do you think she could be the Barbie on my avatar??

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

uh huh!! she sure could be!!

[lippintyna]

thanks - no we tried that but she wont do as she actually said she wants the money...so sad :( as we would rather give her these types of payments to ensure the kids dont miss out...

I would be looking more at the "prescribed payments" that she doesn't have a choice in...like * child care costs * school or pre-school fees * amounts payable for uniforms and books prescribed by a school or pre-school
* essential medical and dental expenses * the payee's share of rent, mortgage, utilities, rates and * some motor vehicle costs.


I know that sounds nasty but you can't keep paying and paying and paying. She is only asking for the things that she knows is not going to deduct from the cash payments that you/DH pay.

It is certainly difficult when you have a receiving parent who is not using the money for what it is intended. Maybe if you look into these things she might realise that you are not there to fund her lifestyle but to actually paying this money for the children...after all that is why they call it child support. It would be different if she was using the money towards rent, electricity household bills etc, that meant that she then had more of her own money to pay for the children's needs such as clothing, food etc. Paying parents aren't there to fund holidays.

[3boys1girl]

Wish I was getting $2000 a month. My assessment just got changed in favour of my ex! He pays a measly $230 per month and his wife is pregnant with their 2nd child and CSA said my payments will drop to $170 per month! That doesnt even buy my kids their snacks for school lunches each week. The system is s**t!!

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

seems they rort the good guys and dont look after those who really need it...I think it needs to have more checks that the money used properly especially if the woman totally on welfare...

[Mum2Bug]

seems they rort the good guys and dont look after those who really need it...I think it needs to have more checks that the money used properly especially if the woman totally on welfare...
I just want to point out that although I think its c**p the way the system works, as a single sahm not everyone is like that!

[InSaneOne]

i can so agree with you guys on that the system sucks. dh's ex got $900 from his tax last week. she went out and got the kids a pair of new joggers each (the totally **** cheappy ones) that would have totalled less than $100 for all 3 of them and according to the girls she also got herself 2 new pairs of jeans. then she has the nerve to turn around as aks if we could look after the children while she goes to melbourne for her brothers wedding. why can't she take the children - because can't afford to, was her pathetic response. i can't even afford to buy my dd disposable nappies (thats why i use mainly cloth) and she gets 2 pairs of jeans. i think the system needs to look closer at what the money is spent on. i wouldn't mind if she brought the kids food or clothes or even paid the mortage or electricity bills. i wouldn't even have minded if she took the kids to the ekka and blew it all there. the money is for the kids not for her to spend on herself, especially when my baby, me and dh has to miss out on things that we need.

[Deity]

wow it's so weird to see things from other's persepectives. It is easy to get caught up in your own affairs when you don't know it happens to so many people.

I left my ex while pregnant and 3 months after my DD was born I still had no recieved a cent. I am a single mum, with family o/s, attending uni and struggling on the single parent payment oh and a lousy $260 a year from the ex cos he said he had a nil income while he has a $1/2 mil house a six figure salary and sports cars everywhere.

I can see it from the side where the single mum is viewed to sit on her *** but I certainly do not. With no-one to help with chores, shopping, laundry, cleaning, bed making, meals, washing up, bottles, nappies, changes, baths, errands, uni work, finances, etc etc etc I far from sit around. In fact a trip anywhere would be welcomed right about now! - and a nice back rub wouldn't go a miss either...

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

Deity - I am not having a pop at single mums or SAHM I am a SAHM and my sister a single mum...it is just when you know she doesnt pay the utilities or phone bill and the children are wearing clothes that are filthy, too small and have not had new shoes (apart from those we buy) for nearly a year...that you begin to question the system that says they cannot check how its spent...especially when the payee then announces she is off to Bali...she spends the money on herself (her nails always 'done' she always has clothes, she on speed and she always going out)
We dont have a flash house, flash cars or the ability to go on holidays we are just normal people in a 3x1 with a newborn and first mortgage trying ot get by as best we can...we dont begrudge supporting my DH's kids it is just that as I explained the money is not spent on the kids or even going on the basics for their upkeep/welfare...it just to me as a mother or decent human being beggars belief that a mother would be so selfish as to not want the best for her kids or do right by them thats all...I would love a holiday too btw or a back rub! my DH away working to provide for all of us and I do it alone 90% of the time :)

[ashleerose]

I know exactly how deity feels.

As a single mum of two kids i had no other option but to leave my ex (long story but basically he was on drugs, cheating and broke an avo by bashing me up and pulling a knife on me).

I moved to be closer to my family and had to fight him through the family law court as he had to of course put on an act for his mum and his new thing (mind you she is also on drugs and has another kid from another relationship).
He got with the thing within the first week of me leaving (really loved me right).
He is on the phone begging me back but in the bed with her.

Anyhow because of everything i lost weight and looked good even though i didnt feel it. She on the other hand is six foot tall by six foot wide, wore makeup that made her look like a prostitute clown and clothes that showed every bump and lump. At court he couldnt keep his eyes of me which must have annoyed her to know end.

Anyhow, he only had to do three months supervised visits at his mums house (halfway between my house and his).
He turned up for the first (as did she) the second she called his mum said he was sick and the third she was constantly on the phone saying i love you and he was answering i do too (or something similar).
He gave up after that. She was too insecure to let him see the kids and he was too lazy to bother.

I wanted a divorce and he wouldnt give me one threatened to kill me or wanted large amounts of money from me (i dont know where he thinks ill find it).
In the end i told them both that they could do it as i couldnt be bothered anymore.

Not long ago i got a letter from childsupport saying that my payments would reduce because the thing and my ex had a baby.
So now the money is divided between his first ex and son, me and my two kids and of course the thing he is with.

They are of course together in a relationship and live in one houso house and rent the other one out (in the same street).
He is on the dole and she is on the sole parent pension and he is paying her childsupport.

So today i rang centerlink and told them what i knew, hopefully centerlink will catch them out but if not i wont be surprised.

Because my ex cheated on me during our relationship i now have an std and it is incurable. He has of course still got it and so will the thing.

I hope by dobbing them into centerlink it will make them think twice about having any more kids for drug money.

I do not feel sorry for her at all. Everyone in the street knew what he put me through and i guess she has chosen to be with someone that obviously doesnt love her or respect her.

Not long ago his mum rang (just prior to the babys birth) trying to encourage me to do the divorce (and now i know why).
She kept asking if i had heard from my ex.

Since the baby has been born i have not heard from her or his family.
They think that they can replace my two kids and his first son with another baby and thats not on. Its their loss.

[♥My Innocent Angel♥]

i know you dont mean to come across as single /sahm being all the same but i just want to say i know what yous are paying out to the ex's is a lot but keep in mind that me being a single mum dont know if any of you saw my thread about this today but my ex and i broke up over a yr ago and i have just recieved my 1st payment of 12.86 thats for the whole month what the hell am i surposed to do with that seriously and to me its not about his money cus personally i would love for him to stick it but its about him taking responsibility for what we both agreed on at the time of finding out about our baby(sorry bit sidetracked there) so it really does go from one extreme to another i know it is based on wages but i also know my ex is recieving money elsewhere i also know where its going and its not on his daughter its going up his nose and in his mouth and just to make it sound even better that 12.86 divided by four which isnt technically a month is 3.21
anyway i think im getting a lil side tracked here my point is i understand that what his ex is doing is wrong but i dont think csa is fair for anyone really except as someone mentioned b4 the ones who take advantage of what its really meant to be about

[Buddha Bubbas]

well i received an assessment last week for my 7 yr old daughter that said her father was to pay $550 a month. then i received a new assessment tody... guess what... he quit his job and is apparently not earning ANYTHING!!! now he only has to pay the minimum which is $26.00 a month. yeah okay whats the point!! i feel like ringin them up and telling them not to bother as it is insulting....:banghead:

[lippintyna]

.. he quit his job and is apparently not earning ANYTHING!!! now he only has to pay the minimum which is $26.00 a month. yeah okay whats the point!! i feel like ringin them up and telling them not to bother as it is insulting....:banghead:

I was under the impression that him quitting his job is not a viable reason to reduce an assessment. I would contact the Child Support Agency and ask about his capacity to earn. Ask them about if he allowed to keep quitting jobs to reduce his amount of child support he is assessed to pay.

I think it is ridiculous that paying parents can voluntarily quit employment to reduce the amount of assessed child support.

I would find out more about this from Child Support Agency.

It does say on the CSA website (here's the link .... http://www.csa.gov.au/payee/coa.php) under Reason 8 that the assessment can be reassessed to take into account the paying parents earning capacity.

It could be a start.

I wouldn't be telling CSA to "not bother" as frustrating as it is because they may "end" off the assessment and then this will affect your FTB payments with Centrelink. Namely it will reduce them considerably.

[Buddha Bubbas]

child support agency has never been helpful ... in my opinion anyway.
he has called them and said he will not be earning any money at this stage so they dont even contact his previous employer to find out if this is correct. i have to lodge a objection to assessment which im not that happy about doing because last time i did this his reply was that custody had not been "set in stone". he does not see my daughter and i do not want to be threatened with him going for joint custody or visitation.

[lippintyna]

I know what you are saying jake & ta tas mum. It is extremely frustrating. It can be like being stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea. :banghead:

The only thing you can take heart in is that your FTB payments may increase if he is only paying the minimum requirements. I know that probably doesn't help all that much but at least it is something.

I find the re-assessment process very hard to swallow myself. I have several times seriously thought of having my assessments reassessed but knowing that I have to document and provide evidence of every cent I spend and the ex gets a copy of that just frustrates me to no end. I certainly see why CSA needs the information to make a judgement call but I don't understand why he has to have all of the info. I figure if I wanted him to know all my details I wouldn't have separated from him. I have a new life and I don't want him knowing the "ins and outs" of my new life. :no:

Try not to let it get you down too much jake & ta tas mum. At least we are responsible parents doing the best we can for our children and we can tell them that with all honesty. Can they (these particular paying parents) say the same thing? They may try but at the end of the day I am a firm believer in "karma" and that "the truth always come out in the end".

Hugs to you!:hugs:

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

they should say to him actually you have capacity to earn this and so we will charge you support as if you were - unless he has really good reason for quitting working...ie health prevents him doing that job or he going to be a SAHD which doesnt from you said sound the case...from the other side if my husband decided the mines getting too much for him he would stillbe billed as if he earning that wage as he has the potential to earn it whether he stays up there or not...so sure be the same...doesnt the govt compensate those people who dont get child support - that was always my understanding?? And then when you get more than certain amount from payer you get the base rate fot part A but still the FTB part B...I know my DH's ex was getting 430 dollars a week welfare before my husband returned from overseas and started paying her officially again (though we had always been paying her unofficially thinking she had declared ) - now she has a huge bill from Centrelink as someone (not us) dobbed her in...

[Buddha Bubbas]

in the end ... its just money.. i would prefer not to get a cent just to ensure he doesnt see my daughter. just frusturating that parents or should i say "sperm donor" s can get away with not living up to their responsibilities....

[lippintyna]

.. i would prefer not to get a cent just to ensure he doesnt see my daughter.

He can go for access to your daughter at any time regardless of the child support issue. (In broad terms, of course I don't know your individual circumstances) What you do have in your favour is that, depending on how long it has been since he has seen your daughter, that that would be taken into consideration - if it came to discussion of access.

Just think that at least he is paying something (as petty and pathetic that we make think it is). Put it away in a bank account and spend it on your precisious daughter. She doesn't HAVE to know where it came from.


just frusturating that parents or should i say "sperm donor" s can get away with not living up to their responsibilities....

I completely agree with the "sherking" of resonsibilities....but some things will never change unfortunately.

[Buddha Bubbas]

i know he can go for access at any time... this would be my worst nightmare come true. im just saying that i dont want to have to challenge this assessment because i have in the past and he brings up custody as a bribe. if i puch for money he will retaliate and hit me where it hurts. by seeing my daughter.

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

I think it awful when people shirk responsibilities too - my DH has always even when he wasnt working paid some sort of support or given clothes or provided uniform, sports fees etc...not that she was ever grateful...this thread was started because the lady (though she isnt!) is not spending the money on the children or her daily living costs and the children suffer and now we cannot even help out more as we have not any spare cash to do so as it all going to her 'Bali' fund and thats what infuriates us :banghead: I know there are so many different stories out there and people get rorted on both sides of the deal and that is why I still think the CSA should be more understanding of individual scenarios and that welfare and shild support in these cases should have checks. Why should we work our butts off and pay taxes and above and beyond amounts of support to women or men who do nothing to better the lives of the children they have brought into this world...I look forward to the proposed changes the govt plan to bring in in 2008.

[pegasus]

The problem with anyone deciding on someone having a capacity to earn is that it can never really be a fair judgement.

I would like to be a SAHM (I am at the moment, but with a 5week old baby I'll see how long we can afford this). When I had my son, we applied to csa to see if I could be a dependent so that I could be a SAHM. Their reply was that I had a capacity to earn, whereas DH's ex had never had a job and therefore needed my DH to support her. I find this offensive, my DH needs to support his children from his first relationship (not marriage), but why should she not have a duty to be seen to go to work to support them too, whereas I am expected to go to work to support my children.

As a result I returned to work when my son was 10weeks old, my DH's ex has still never had a job. When my husband and his ex broke up, he was working two jobs one in a mail room of an insurance company and a night one at a kebab shop. He is now a state manager of a department in a large company. His capacity to earn is significantly different now to what it was then. Who is to say that he would have been able to rise to where he is today if he had stayed with his ex? The support system we have in our house is totally different.

This is the problem I have with the idea of capacity to earn. Again - this is not saying I agree with men who pay the minimal amount when they should be paying more. However, as my husband has always paid the correct percentage of his pretax wage, it's not an issue in our house as he financially supports his two children very well - as they are also supported very well by the benefits that his ex gets from centrelink. I qualify for no benefits and (apparently) no allowance of my husband's salary (he'd have the same amount set aside for my children whether I was in the picture or not). I therefore, have resigned myself to the fact that I'll probably have to return to work earlier than I would like again.

The only other answer would be for me to leave my husband and I would be financially much better off and would not have to work - how ironic (and wrong) is that?

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

pegasus - I hear you!! we were told exactly that and that if Andrew gives up working on mines to try and get work down here so can be closer to us and the children they will still sting him the same amount as if he was up there. I was insulted too when they said she has not ever worked and DH has to therefore support her and I can work...she has chosen to be on welfare since both the children been at school/kindy pretty much full time and quite openly has said to us why would I work...I get welfare and cs.
What will happen with us is I will re train (had real probs getting marketing work since arrived from UK) and work adn DH will be a SAHD most probably but that will have to wait a couple of years...

[pegasus]

This is where *whispers* my hubby has said we would sometimes be better off if he was a SAHD and I earned the main wage. However, it's not going to happen - as we fully acknowledge that the two children deserve the right thing to be done by them.

I always have to watch my tone when discussing csa due to the volatile nature of my thoughts on this subject. Also my thoughts on how the children are being brought up (which is nothing to do with the maintenance, and regardless of what cs was being paid (even if none) I suspect they would be brought up the same. Statements like "If you can't afford to give me money for a plane ticket for DSD then you should go back to work" This was said when my son was 6weeks old and we'd offered to pay for the plane ticket in three weeks when our tax return was due (we were living interstate at the time and it was an unscheduled visit).

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

the whispers are getting louder in our household...:rolleyes: and yes I have a pretty volatile thoughts on the subject too...it breaks my heart at the way the money spent and welfare of my step children and yes I believe would be spent same way support or no support...I never spend anything on myself and when was working used to use my pay for all those little extras for the stepkids and to make things bit more pleasant for them...but was furious when Andrew once told her this she replied so she should...I felt like screaming why dont you use the money you are given to raise the children on the children and the utilities...even if we did do the SAHD thing we would always provide and anywya DH would go for custody then...oh out of interest if I do earn is she liable for any of that - she told DH in heated row if I go out to earn she will tell CSA and they will have some of my income too...surely that not the case!!??

[lippintyna]

...oh out of interest if I do earn is she liable for any of that - she told DH in heated row if I go out to earn she will tell CSA and they will have some of my income too...surely that not the case!!??

She cannot access your income for Child Support for your DH's and her children. This is a major bluff on her behalf. The assessments are purely made on your DH's income and if he was the custodial parent, her income.

[Kassiasmum]

oh out of interest if I do earn is she liable for any of that - she told DH in heated row if I go out to earn she will tell CSA and they will have some of my income too...surely that not the case!!??

This is definately not true. Under no circumstances give CSA your details, under the legislation they are not entitled to this information, it is between the bio parents only. Just be aware that they may try it on, but if they ever ask for your information (they don't even need to know your name), ask for it in writing stating what section of the legislation they are asking for your details under.

[pegasus]

The only time a problem arises about the partners' income or spending is when you do a change of assessment.

We avoided doing a change of assessment for a long time when it cost us more than 5% of DH's income to have contact (one of the criteria) as we didn't want to state how much we spent on things and how much our assets were worth. My DH had nothing when I met him and I was on a wage of probably about double what he was on, therefore our assets were mostly from my spending and saving.

We did a change of assessment when DS was born and thought we'd do the right thing by including all expenses as requested. We stated entertainment was about $100 a month (this included going out for dinner or stuff like that and we hardly thought it was extravagant), but when my DH had a conference with CSA, they said that he was putting himself ahead of the children if he wanted to keep money aside for entertainment (this is a category on the form). Meanwhile the biomum didn't put anything on the form for entertainment, but...hello...you meant to say that she doesn't go out at all? We know she does.

Anyway my income is none of the ex's business - however, she should be thankful that I do earn an income when I can - it means that her children are provided for better than if I didn't or my hubby was on his own - there's no way he could afford the mortgage on our house to provide bedrooms for the kids separately, or the beds (which my parents gave us) or ... you get the picture.

[4littlebears]

wow i think our DHs have the same ex.. lol. I totally know where u are coming from. my DH ex is the same..... sometimes i think all i can do is grin and bare it , they are his kids and he does what he can for them, shes a user and uses the kids to get what she wants... chicks like this give us good women a bad reputation. :banghead:

[Deity]

well i received an assessment last week for my 7 yr old daughter that said her father was to pay $550 a month. then i received a new assessment tody... guess what... he quit his job and is apparently not earning ANYTHING!!! now he only has to pay the minimum which is $26.00 a month. yeah okay whats the point!! i feel like ringin them up and telling them not to bother as it is insulting....:banghead:

I had the EXACT situation put on me a few weeks ago. My ex had to pay $685 p/m but I never got that cos he estimated his income was nil so I got a crumby $21 which went upto $26 just this month.

Now then, if your ex is on Centrelink his income is not $0 p/a so he must be getting an income from somewhere and from you said about having to pay $550 p/m he must have been on a fairly decent income.

The Change of Assessment form under Section 8 is about his capacity to earn and CSA look at the circumstances why he is no longer employed. If he did indeed quit his job to avoid paying CSA they take a rather dim view about that and it is on a par with TAX evation and is considered very serious. :shame:

CSA go on what you say unless the other party contest it, if you don't contest it they assume all information provided is accurate.

My response to you is why should you take this? You have a right to appeal against the decision of the Assessment and can apply for a Change of Assessment under Reason 8 in the booklet which they will provide immediately upon request.

Sure you have to state what and when you pay for things, but lets face it you're not exactly rolling around in $100 bills so who cares if he gets to see it? The beauty of a transparent case is that you get to see what he writes too.

The CSA conference is pretty painless and lasts a maximum of 30 minutes. It gives you the opportunity to prove that your situation and by the time it takes place they will have ascertained his income and potential to earn and will have contacted his current employer and previous employer to get a clearer picture of what is happening.

Don't worry if you do not know what he is doing, they can figure all that out - it's their job and believe me they want you to get paid from him more than you do. They have unimaginable powers that are quite astonishing. They are working for the government not really for you so the more they can get from him the less the tax-payer has to, which is the primary objective.

Take note: if you find CSA a little evasive it is not cos they don't care it is cos they are bound by the Privacy Act not to disclose information to you about your ex, you can however discuss what you know about him to your heart's content. Now while that may be frustrating in some ways it is reassuring to know that the same respect is being shown for you and nothing you say will be disclosed to him either. :no:

It worked for me and now the ex has to pay me nearly double what he originally had to so give it a go, you really can't get in a worse financial situation by doing it cos he's already paying MINIMUM!!

As far as access to your children is concerned, cross that bridge if and when it comes, the fact that he is avoiding paying you what you are entiled to is not going to do him any favours if he makes a request to the court to his his child. He is full of wind you just need to recognise it and act on his bluff. :laughing:

[mythreelittlemonkeys]

deity is right again..you only can quit job for really good reasons and not get stung by CSA... ie to be SAHD for 2nd family or to do something that better for welfare of both 1st and 2nd family...or to train/study to improve career options...or you moving overseas/going on extended holiday otherwise the payer will most likely be told he has to pay based on what he has the capacity to earn...so in your case i would contest that! Easch case is so individual if my DH did give up work up north it would be to move back to Perth so he could see all his children more, and share the custody more fairly - which would actually benefit their welfare in this scenario...and depending on who the case officer was would depend on whether they would still charge him to pay on what he earning currently...so can be pants both ways not just for the single mummies but also for the 2nd families...