Unbiased abortion advice

[jaimie]

Im not interested in starting a debate about abortion itself but i was just reading the latets copy of Marie Claire and there was an article about pregnancy counselling helplines that are basically telling women they are murderers when they phone for advice about abortion..Also the goverment is starting a new hotline and the health minister is happy to allow the Catholic church to run it (possibly)....What do you think???
It also says that helplines should display if they are pro-life or pro-choice...Which i think would be great...
What is your opinion?
Lets not slag off each others views either:D

[Karizma]

I think the more information about abortion the better. Catholic churches i reckon are going to be viewed one way and we know they are going to be against abortion. I dont think there is enough information and help and support about this issue to be honest. So to me the more the merrier. But I think there should be an exclusive hotline seperate from any organisation with proper qualified people say like councillors people with experience with abortion and womens issue so to speak. For example there is a group called the casa house who actually interview a rape victim before the police can. They do a medical assesment and other stuff regarding the rape not 100% sure on all thier exact uses and stuff. But places like this should be able to give the morning after pill to women cause they arent really in an emotional state sometimes to deal with that side of it, then they sometimes have to go through the trauma of an abortion later. Little things like that would be more helpful to reduce abortions. But these places just dont have enough funding :( OK thank-you for listening :D

[natasha]

I am completely against abortion for myself, howevert I don't believe women who have them should be called murderers! How awful! Unless you have been in this situation you have no idea how it feels to have to choose to have an abortion. I think there definately should be more support out there for women who are pregnant and contemplating an abortion.
I don't think it's appropriate to allow the Catholic Church to give counselling to these women though.

[bekkyboo]

i think helplines (for anything) should be unbiased... No one should be called a murderer when they ring for advice...

The catholic church will definately be biased - thats their right to be. But i dont think its right for them to be running a national helpline on the issue - it wouldnt be a help to the people ringing. But on the other side, someone strongly pro-choice would be the same problem...

Switzerland is needed :)

[~EmsMum~]

well heres my two cents worth

I am in two minds about abortion...

But I believe in it for several reasons, ie if a woman has been raped or was in an abusive relationship etc and also if the mother has muliple children and decides that another baby wouldn't strain on the family etc

But I don't believe in it for peoples own selfish reasons ie im going to have an abortion because I don't want a baby or I don't want to ruin my life

[Tam-I-Am]

I don't have a problem with hotlines having one philosophical viewpoint or another SO LONG as they make that information clearly known to a potential client well before they ring in.

[~EmsMum~]

i think helplines (for anything) should be unbiased... No one should be called a murderer when they ring for advice...

The catholic church will definately be biased - thats their right to be. But i dont think its right for them to be running a national helpline on the issue - it wouldnt be a help to the people ringing. But on the other side, someone strongly pro-choice would be the same problem...

Switzerland is needed :)

have to agree with you there :)

[subaruforestermum]

It is a womans or even a girls right to have an abortion if she feels it is best, not just for her but for the unborn child......

Do these people who are running the hotlines even think that possibly some of the women who ring up for advise have fallen pregnant from a situation that she didn't place herself in, or her life isn't appropriate for a child to be bought into, due to drug abuse etc....

I think these people who call women murders for having an abortion need to pull their heads in, and stop trying to help by running useless helplines... As they are useless if they don't offer support and unbiased information..

I personally do not think I could have an abortion, but it comes down to how I felt and the cirumstances behind the pregnancy.....

More information reguarding abortion should be made available, not to promote abortion but to give woman an unbiased understanding...

If you have an objection to abortion and dont believe in it, they shouldn't be working on a helpline for abortions.......

My opinion.......and yes I do feel strongly about this, but no I have never had an abortion....

[mich71]

look i think that would be great but i dont know about the church being involed it could be dicy rape is not the only reason for abortion as i fell p/g 3yrs ago while my dh was having radiation theropy i wonted that child so bad but it wasnt possiable so cancer unit aranged everything i rang one of thoughs lines to get support and was told i was a muderer and it just made things worse for me i never have gotten over it fully because of what was said to me but as long as the support is there and its the right kind then yes yes yes id hate to think how many woman have gone through what i did

[Chanelc]

I think it is a very personal decision and that right shouldn't be taken away from woman. The circumstance for each woman is different. I do know people that have had abortions it is not an easy decision and the last thing any one needs is to be critical of an individual circumstances that results in abortion.
I do feel that sometimes a child is better not to be brought into the world and be abused or hurt. Man what a topic.

[liah]

abortion is a woman's choice but it should NEVER be used as a form or contraception over and over again. In my eyes that is very very wrong. Prevention is the best solution.

[Mikeswifey]

I am not against abortion at all. Everything happens for a reason.

Whatever someone chooses to do is their buisness. Noone deserves to be judged.

[Minke]

I am not against abortion at all. Everything happens for a reason.

Whatever someone chooses to do is their buisness. Noone deserves to be judged.

I couldn't do it myself, but i am pro-choice. I don't agree with some reasons why women have them, but at the end of the day, its their decision. I don't agree with the catholic church getting involved, women need support, not to be labelled a murderer.

[jessgray]

i read about this happening in my local aera ages ago so i am not surprised by it at all.i think to tell someone they are a murderer for choosing an abortion is wrong, they obviously have thought their descion through enough to want advice on it.
i wonder if the catholic church infoline people would call a rape victim a murderer for wanting abort her rapist's baby?

[TJ]

I definitly think there needs to be more help lines out there, and i think they ALL should be unbiased!!

I have had an abortion, and it was such a hard decision to make let alone being called or sorts or horrible and nasty things.
I saught alot of advice before i came to my decision and i think thats what other women who are faced with the same situation need.

Its their choice no one elses, and all they need is advise, certainly NOT any form of pressure from on side or another.

I really dont think its appropriate that the catholic church runs any sort of help line on this topic..... nor divorce or anything else that they are strongly against.

[Minke]

I definitly think there needs to be more help lines out there, and i think they ALL should be unbiased!!

I have had an abortion, and it was such a hard decision to make let alone being called or sorts or horrible and nasty things.
I saught alot of advice before i came to my decision and i think thats what other women who are faced with the same situation need.

Its their choice no one elses, and all they need is advise, certainly NOT any form of pressure from on side or another.

I really dont think its appropriate that the catholic church runs any sort of help line on this topic..... nor divorce or anything else that they are strongly against.

Well said!

[SamanthaJane]

Helplines should definitley be unbiased!!

I was faced with decision of whether or not to have an abortion. I had the appointment made, as it had to be booked 4 weeks in advance. I waited up until the day of my appointment to cancel it. I'd made my decision a week before the appointment that i wouldn't be going... but i still was not totally sure.

Choosing whether or not to keep a child is the HUGEST decision i have ever made. People deserve unbiased help on something as huge as this decision. They need to know both sides of the situation in order to make in informed decision.

So from someone who has almost been there, its not an easy choice to make at all.

[1+1=5]

i have also been faced with the decision to abort and i'm so glad i didn't because i would never have gotten to meet my son. for me, i felt like i was being a coward by HAVING the baby because i couldn't imagine what it would be like to go through an abortion and questioning my decision for the rest of my life.
Having said that, i have full respect for people who make the hard decision to have an abortion. my best friend did and i know that for her it was the right decision at the time because she wasn't ready emotionally and to me thats as good a reason as any.
i think abortion help lines should be unbiased, it only makes sense for them to be doesn't it? i'm shocked that people who work on these help lines would have an anti-abortion opinion and be willing to force that opinion on someone who is calling out for help. selfish. maybe the people hiring these 'councillors' should have figured that out whent hey were hiring.

[Ana Gram]

I have a huge problem with the catholic church running a help line to counsel people wanting abortions. So very wrong.

[meme]

a pregnancy counselling helpline could be run by the catholic church, but i think you need to know that it is a catholic church helpline so that you can be aware that the counselling you recieve will have a catholic bias. (i probaly wouldn't call it myself being not catholic)

i think that in some cases of unwanted pregnancy having someone who could support youthrough the emotions of an unwanted pregnancy and offer you the option that you can get through it and have the baby wouldn't be all bad. i guess in suporting women who were undecided in their decisions the hardest part for a catholic run helpline would be not judging women who did then choose abortion.

a pro choice counsellling service would be much better. i thought pro choice is like switzerland, supportive of womens choice, be that terminate or not. a pro choice service should be supportive of women either way and offer information on all options. perhaps the catholic church feels that pro choice services are mainly pro abortion.
i did feel that everyone pressured me to abort when i was pregnant at 17, the parents on both sides and the counsellor i saw all looked mainly at my life and presented termination as an easy solution and having a baby as 'impossible'. i would have appreciated other options. (well i kept the baby anyway, supported mostly by my only catholic friend, now that i think about it:rolleyes: )

callling women murderers is awful. i do not think many women make this decision lightly, (even if they appear to. )

[Niki]

helplines shouldnt be biased its not fair on the girls that ring! i no that i couldnt get an abortion but im not against it for others! wat is right for some ppl isnt right for others

[Lunar]

I am pro-life, I don't really believe in abortion.

I do however fell there NEEDS to be more information out there about abortion, and OTHER avenues to go if you do not wish to raise a child. I feel there are too many woman having abortions, most of which do not know what other options there are out there.

[bearsmummy]

i think its a good idea that they are providing more info out there for ladies/girls, but i do hope they keep an unbiased opinion on the matter and try not to influence their beliefs onto those seeking help. :D
i couldnt personally go through with having one... but other people make their own choices in life and need to be given all options before making a decision like that :)

[SassyMummy]

I bought Marie Claire today...and was thinking about creating a similar thread!

Anyway...I have yet to read the entire article...but the heading I didn't agree with. For those of you who haven't seen it (which is probably most of you)...it's a picture of a woman's hand, holding a plastic foetus...and the words say:

"You're thinking of having an abortion and are desperate for advice...The last thing you need is for your counsellor to show you this" (meaning the little plastic foetus thing).

Anyway, while women opting for an abortion may not want to see a little plastic baby-in-the-making...I don't necessarily think it's a terrible thing. It may make the decision all that more difficult...but I think there should be TWO SIDES to the abortion debate. Perhaps seeing that little plastic baby may make some women fully realise what it is that they're getting rid of.

I'm pro-choice...but I do think that in making that choice, people should be fully aware of EVERYTHING. And, since it is a foetus that is going to be removed, I think it's reasonable to let a woman know exactly what that foetus looks like. It can be seen as a "scare tactic" to make them keep the baby...but at the same time, someone suggesting that abortion is the answer because otherwise your life may be ruined etc etc...that's not any good either.

I don't really think there will EVER be un-biased advice. Everyone has an opinion...and everyone will express it. The only unbias information you can give is a list of facts and figures...and that's not very supportive..is it? Even then...to be completely unbias...the wording of those facts and figures would have to considered carefully...are you killing a baby, or removing a foetus?

Using the term "killing a baby" may be a bit emotive, and make women feel like murderers...but at the same time "removing a foetus" is so UNemotive, and makes the decision to abort seem as easy and as emotionless as cutting your toenails.

[Mamaduke]

Oh Sassymummy...
you are wise beyond your years...:yes:

[Mister Noodle]

Anyone putting themselves forward as a counsellor has the duty to be impartial.

The people that call counsellors are by definition vulnerable, and do NOT need advocacy on either side of the fence.

Trying to influence their clients in either direction is just plain shameful.

[reAllytee]

I don't really think there will EVER be un-biased advice. Everyone has an opinion...and everyone will express it. The only unbias information you can give is a list of facts and figures...and that's not very supportive..is it? Even then...to be completely unbias...the wording of those facts and figures would have to considered carefully...are you killing a baby, or removing a foetus?


Ok well for starters the counsellor i saw i was completely unbiased towards me.
Maybe in her head she had other ideas but nothing about her opinions made it into our conversation & nor should it.
If i go to a counsellor because i have an alcohol or drug problem i shouldnt be given biased counselling same if i went to someone because i had an affair there should be no difference.
The idea of seeking counselling is to talk & be heard not to be told what your "baby" looks like or what your "killing".
Ok thats enough for me because im getting angry & upset but as Mr N said a counsellor who influences their client one way or another is someone who should be ashamed of themselves & shouldnt be counselling.

[SassyMummy]

I wasn't having a go at anyone...in fact, I don't think I really made a particularly negative comment about anything...except for the fact that I disagreed with the headline of the Marie Claire article.

I understand what you mean about wanting to be heard and such...but I would assume a lot of people dial abortion helplines to seek advice...and I just don't believe that advice is unbias. People can intentionally persuade you one way or the other...or they do it without meaning to. They can make it obvious, or they can do it subtly. It's just my opinion...but as humans, we're all flawed...nobody can be totally objective.

IMO, abortion hotlines shouldn't be used to seek verification for decisions. They should offer advice and help to help you come to those decisions...and IMO, the best way to make the decision is to have both sides of the story heard...it's naive, IMO, to ignore either side of the arguement just because it doesn't make you feel good.

Btw - By using the term "you"...I don't necessarily mean you Allyoo (well, except for the YOU at the start of the 2nd paragraph...).

[Ana Gram]

But by saying they should be telling two sides of the story is pretty much saying it is black and white- you have an abortion or you don't. Abortion is a grey issue and there are several different sides depending on each individual woman's situation.

[Mister Noodle]

And a trained counsellor will deliberately *avoid* influencing you - as they have been trained to do.

What they should provide is the information their client needs. Not propaganda dressed up as 'all the facts'. There is no confusing the two - and anyone that strays over the line is comitting a gross violation of trust.

[reAllytee]

I never took it as a post meant for me i was just stating my experience.
I get angry or upset that as Chelle has said people see this as a black & white issue when it is far from it.

And again what Mr N said is exactly right.
A counsellor is exactly that " a person who gives counsel " not gives their own opinion !

Psychologists, counsellors & psychatrists do it every day & sometimes with not the nicest of people but thats their job to help someone seek a path they are not there to take the persons hand & drag them down a path.
Just like with any other problem a woman should have the right to speak with someone who will listen not judge & help her come to her own decision not what the counsellor thinks is the most moral of paths.

[kathrine]

The sad sad truth of lifes,

those who can but shouldn 't do
those who would but can't don't
those who want wait
those that wait want

There is no perfect world

There will never be truley unbiased reporting. Marie Clare is getting great mileage selling their magazine with contraverisal stories.

I suppose there may be unbiased unopinionated counselling. But, if there is so much available to women with unwanted/unplanned/uneconominacal/inconvienate pregnancies, why is the adoption rate so low, and single mothers on the increase?

Surely adoption IS an option offered?

Kathrine

[SamanthaJane]

Yes, in theory a counsellor should avoid influencing you and not push you into one direction.

But in my opinion if the Catholic Church are running abortion helplines, they would most definitley be biased.

I never bothered to use any form of abortion helpline or teenage parenting helpline when i found out i was pregnant. I only talked to my partner, my family, my friends, my doctor and read a few different articles when making my decision.

I didn't want to be influenced to go in either direction by someone who didn't know me very well, so that is why i did not talk to those helplines, because i figured they'd sway more toward one side.

I guess in a way my family/partner/friends offered biased advice... but at least they know me and my sitatuion... a support line knows nothing about me and my life. And i think in order to make the right decision you do need to look at your life, what your goals are, how this is going to effect you personally.

But in my opinion there should be NO support lines that say abortion is wrong or that teenage parenting is wrong. No decision should be considered "right" or "wrong". Because it is not that black and white. There are so many different ways of looking at abortion/parenting you cant just say no the whole thing is wrong because every single person is different, every situation is different. Whereas i don't think biased support lines would take that into account, it would just be based on their sole opinion on the issue.

[proud_mum2b]

well heres my two cents worth

I am in two minds about abortion...

But I believe in it for several reasons, ie if a woman has been raped or was in an abusive relationship etc and also if the mother has muliple children and decides that another baby wouldn't strain on the family etc

But I don't believe in it for peoples own selfish reasons ie im going to have an abortion because I don't want a baby or I don't want to ruin my life

i totally agree with you.

[SassyMummy]

Okay, I'll admit that I did make it appear that the abortion debate was simply black and white. I guess due to lack of clever wording, and lack of REAL understanding of abortion (because I've never had one)...I made it seem that I was simplifying a rather complex issue.

I do understand that there are shades of grey...as with every other issue out there. I guess the thing is, while there ARE shades of grey...there is Black and one end and White and the other...and because they're the complete opposite, I chose to only mention those. Mentioning every little possibility would have made my reply 1000 pages long (or more)...and lord knows I usually write lengthy posts no matter HOW BASIC the thread's topic is.

I guess it's near impossible to have a helpline that covers all shades of grey...and I guess that's what I was trying to say. If you give a woman black and white...she can take what she agrees with from each and create her own shade of grey. (If that makes sense). Just my opinion.

I read the Marie Claire last night (well, I read the article in question anyway)...and while I didn't really like the headline (as I mentioned in my first post in this thread)...the rest of it made sense. It was all about helplines (abortion, pregnancy etc) being run by church groups who advertise being non-biased and supportive, but in all reality are completely pro-life and fill women's minds with misinformation...and it's not until the woman has been subjected to horrible treatment that she even knows the group is run by a pro-life organisation. (The Silent Scream was mentioned...it's a video which, according to doctors and such, is full of lies and deception regarding the reality of abortion...it's a very graphic video which contains footage of alleged "aborted foetuses" tossed into buckets...which, according the article, are actually late-term miscarriages, not abortions at all).

The article also mentions that Natasha Stott-Despoja (a politician) has created a bill (yet to be passed) which would mean that ALL abortion/pregnancy helpcentres/helplines would legally have to state whether they were pro-life or pro-choice in their advertising, and upon contacting them. I think that's fair. Apparently, stupid Peter Costello doesn't agree (he's a Catholic...and therefore, disagrees with abortion entirely...so he's happy for church groups to run hotlines without callers knowing what they're getting themselves into:rolleyes: ).

Another problem was that a lot of hotlines and such are not run by professionals at all...just volunteers. That could be the very reason pregnant women are getting such biased information...because it would be like a woman ringing up me and asking for my advice...I'm not trained, so I'd just give my opinion...and I really wouldn't have any true facts to offer her because I really don't know all that much about abortion. Perhaps ALL helplines should be run by professionals...or perhaps, if they're just run by volunteers, this should be told BEFORE the caller starts seeking advice. They can then choose to hang up and call someone else, or continue with the call.

[Mamaduke]

I think you'll find it's Tony Abbott (Minister for Health & Ageing) who is the staunch Catholic and the Minister who's fine with the counselling being operated by Catholic groups and not Peter Costello - who is a Baptist (and brother of the Baptist Minister Tim Costello).

[Will]

I suppose there may be unbiased unopinionated counselling. But, if there is so much available to women with unwanted/unplanned/uneconominacal/inconvienate pregnancies, why is the adoption rate so low, and single mothers on the increase?

Sorry if i have read this the wrong way katherine, but there is a hell of a lot more to being a single mum. There are thousands of single mothers out there who wanted every single child they have. Abortion has absolutely nothing to do with it. Sure there are probably a few women who have children from one night stands or whatever, but there are more parents out there that are single because the relationship didnt work out as planned, not because of an 'accident'.

OK, sorry back to the point... I think it is plain wrong for a church to run an abortion hotline. The women calling deserve to be given an unbias opinion. It is not up to anyone else to give them their thoughts and make them feel worse! I personally would never have one, and that is MY choice. And if someone else decides to have one that is THEIR choice. That side of abortion is black and white. But actually going ahead with it and finding out options etc does have a massive grey area.

I really feel for women who have been in this situation. I went to school with a girl whose boyfriend basically just told her she was getting an abortion and she did it a few days later and has regreted it so much ever since. I think if she had spoken to someone who could of helped her with her options etc she would either feel better about what she has done - like did it for a good reason, not just that she was told to - or she would have found another way around it.

[SassyMummy]

Haha...I just KNEW I got that wrong when I wrote it....but I wasn't sure. I always get confused between the two...the whole Abbot and Costello thing...:laughing:

I think this hte 2nd REALLY STUPID thing I've said in a forum...and I do think you've corrected me both times.

Ahhhh...if only I were pregnant and could blame it on that...:rolleyes:

[MeeG]

i dont think they should be biased i dont think someone else should try and talk you into doing something as huge as having a baby, i was faced with this descision as well and it was a very real one but i wouldnt want to call up an annoymus help line and be told what i should do without them knowing my full sitution and no one really does except yourself i believe only you really know.......... no some chruchy religous person who doesnt know and wont help you raise it

[Mamaduke]

Haha...I just KNEW I got that wrong when I wrote it....but I wasn't sure. I always get confused between the two...the whole Abbot and Costello thing...:laughing:

I think this hte 2nd REALLY STUPID thing I've said in a forum...and I do think you've corrected me both times.

Ahhhh...if only I were pregnant and could blame it on that...:rolleyes:

Yet another wrong thing...I've only corrected you once.
I know what you mean re/Abbott & Costello thing!!
Luckily for me I love my politics - not that anyone would know that about me!:laughing:

[meme]

i agree that there does need to be all options presented. women need to be able to make informed choices, ,knowledge is power.

to keep an unexpected pregnancy, to terminate it, to adopt out your bub or whatever will be a decision that will always be with you and anyone who is there to support women in making that choice needs to support whatever choice that that women will be happy to live with.
the more informed she is before hand the more likely she will make a choice that is right for her, i think:detective:

[xkwzit]

Just a reminder to share your POV without attacking those of others, if we can't keep the thread polite, it will be closed.

Cheers

[SassyMummy]

OFF-TOPIC: Hmmmm...it wasn't you then Mummabear...so who was it? I thought it was you (it was in another topic in hte current affairs section...I rattled off the National Anthem...only, it wasn't the national anthem...it was "I am Australian"...lol).

[misskittyfantastico]

Im not interested in starting a debate about abortion itself but i was just reading the latets copy of Marie Claire and there was an article about pregnancy counselling helplines that are basically telling women they are murderers when they phone for advice about abortion..Also the goverment is starting a new hotline and the health minister is happy to allow the Catholic church to run it (possibly)....What do you think???
It also says that helplines should display if they are pro-life or pro-choice...Which i think would be great...
What is your opinion?
Lets not slag off each others views either:D


I have no prob with church run hotlines..AS LONG as it's known by those who call. I am a Catholic and am stll pro-choice. I truly believe there should be as much info and support out there as possible.

[Mamaduke]

OFF-TOPIC: Hmmmm...it wasn't you then Mummabear...so who was it? I thought it was you (it was in another topic in hte current affairs section...I rattled off the National Anthem...only, it wasn't the national anthem...it was "I am Australian"...lol).

Oh yeah that's right it was me...pleased to meet you...my name is...
Mamaduke!!! You're firing tonight!!:laughing:

[SamanthaJane]

:laughing: Sassy Mummy are you sure you dont have a pregnancy brain happening at the moment :p

[SassyMummy]

lol...sorry Mamaduke...I get so confused with similar usernames! I also seem to group people together...confusing them for one another. I put some people in an "intelligent and mature" group...some in a "young and pregnant" group...and there's plenty of others too. I seem to get them all confused!

As for pregnancy brain...well...I certainly hope not. Though...I will admit...I sometimes feel that "baby kicking" feeling (though I've felt it even since DD was born...so that's a very overdue baby if anything!).

[kathrine]

[quote=Nizzma]Sorry if i have read this the wrong way katherine, but there is a hell of a lot more to being a single mum. There are thousands of single mothers out there who wanted every single child they have. Abortion has absolutely nothing to do with it. Sure there are probably a few women who have children from one night stands or whatever, but there are more parents out there that are single because the relationship didnt work out as planned, not because of an 'accident'.


Apology accepted, there was no slur on single mothers. My sister#1 is now doing it hard too(SM 2 kids) , and sister#4 is about to become single mother (nephew due in October). My point was, why isn't adoption given as an alternative to abortion?

(I have been asked to consider being a surrogate for sister#2 who can't carry a baby, and there is next to none available in Australia for adoption.)

kathrine

[LittleBoysRock]

My personal opinion about abortion is something I am not sure of myself. I see both sides and believe women should have the right to choose for themselves.

I think that women deserve to have a confidential, unbiased abortion helpline.

I dont believe women should be made to feel guilty for seeking advice regarding their unborn embryo/feotus.

[SamanthaJane]

There are two simplified options when you discover you are pregnant.
1) have an abortion
2) Keep the baby

Option 1, Abortion, is a single step. You terminate the pregnancy. Which results in the conclusion of the decision making process.

Option 2 is keeping the baby. Now, this does not necessarily mean keeping it for yourself. With this option you have decided to carry the baby inside you. Then comes a few more decisions to make... will you keep it yourself? will you put it up for adoption? Will you find suitable part time carers for the child until you are ready to look after the child full time? etc. When discussing "keeping the baby" on a hotline i am assuming they would run through the steps of this decision. They will inform you that adoption is another choice when "keeping the baby"... its sort of like decisions included in decisions...

Quite confusing, but hopefully you see the point.

[Verdi]

I don't think it's a problem having an Christian based Abortion Counselling/ Helpline.
I think anyone contemplating a termination would want to seek and research many options and ideals.
I think having a non religious helpline is great as well as a Catholic / Religion based one is also great.

Having different opinions help you to know what you want to do.
It is exactly like bub hub, people come on inhere for opinions, and you get a variety of opinions, which help you to understand what you actually want or need to do.
In the end it is your choice,I think looking at abortion in different lights will help you make the right decision for yourself.:yes:

[Mister Noodle]

Nobody would really have that much issue with churches/etc having their own services for discussing such things.

The problem is agenda-driven people masquerading as unbiased sources in an attempt to unfairly manipulate their clients.

I'd still maintain that anyone purporting to be a counsellor has the duty to be neutral, though. If they want to push people down one specific road, they can call themselves something else.

[Sarie]

While I don't think I could ever have an abortion I do believe that everyone should have that option should they need it. I do believe that people going through this process need some counselling, though I also believe this needs to be unbiased and supportive while giving all the facts.

[Cinta]

I don't think its a good idea for the catholic church to run a hotline. Before I was pregnant with Imogen...although I am ashamed to admit :o I had an abortion at 16 years old.

Yes I was probably a little careless with contraception at the time, but thats a whole other issue. When I fell preggie with Imogen I was being VERY careful so just thought I would make that all clear before any of you make mean comments :o

Please don't judge me for this, it was a very hard decision to make. Especially only being 16, it was a very confusing and emotional time for me. Not a decision that was made lightly. At first, my boyfriend (not Mark, a different partner) and I wanted to keep the baby. Everyone was trying to talk to me to ensure this was what I wanted and that I thought it was the best decision. My parents left the decision up to me, but they wanted me to have some counselling anyway. They wanted me to go to a non-bias counsellor so that I would be able to gain information on both sides. I think it would have been very unfair for me to go to a bias counsellor because being so young I would have been easily persuaded to go with whatever opinion they had on the subject. In a way, they would have 'bullied' me into keeping the baby or not keeping the baby. In the end, I decided to not keep the baby because I was given fair advice and was given a lot of support. At 16 I was so young and was easily influenced.

I know its a little off topic but it just wouldn't be good for a person of any age to go and call or see a counsellor coz they would be influenced so greatly from the persons opinion.

Sorry I'm so tired I think I'll leave it there for now :o

[red crayon]

Nobody would really have that much issue with churches/etc having their own services for discussing such things.

The problem is agenda-driven people masquerading as unbiased sources in an attempt to unfairly manipulate their clients.

I'd still maintain that anyone purporting to be a counsellor has the duty to be neutral, though. If they want to push people down one specific road, they can call themselves something else.

i'm in agreement, mister noodle. all services should be upfront about their leanings. in the drug and alcohol world, if you go and see the salvos, you know what flavour advice you're getting and that's your choice. it should be the same with pregnancy support and advice.

cinta - i would certainly never judge you. it's a difficult choice no matter what path you choose. you were a brave 16 year old.

[Sara's Boys]

Any one who finds themselves in the unfortunate circumstance of considering an abortion needs unbiased advice that is relevant to their unique situation. I know many are against abortion, but there are people who need this as an option and it should always be available for individuals without the atachment of lables and guilt.

[luckymama]

I know its a little off topic but it just wouldn't be good for a person of any age to go and call or see a counsellor coz they would be influenced so greatly from the persons opinion.[/COLOR][/B]

I totally agree with you here, i also had an abortion four years ago, while falling pg on the pill, and my DF and I werent ready for a baby at the time. And we needed to make that decision on our own, and councilling wouldnt have helped us, only the two people in the situation can make a decision on whether to do it or not.
I do feel unhappy about doing it now, as i am worried its affecting TTC now, but it was the best decision at the time

[zenifa]

Nobody would really have that much issue with churches/etc having their own services for discussing such things.

The problem is agenda-driven people masquerading as unbiased sources in an attempt to unfairly manipulate their clients.

I'd still maintain that anyone purporting to be a counsellor has the duty to be neutral, though. If they want to push people down one specific road, they can call themselves something else.


I know its a little off topic but it just wouldn't be good for a person of any age to go and call or see a counsellor coz they would be influenced so greatly from the persons opinion.

A counsellor should have appropriate training, qualifications and abide by practice standards and code of ethics set down by a professional association. If this is the case, then he/she can be professional and should be getting professional supervision, so they are not transferring their views/biases onto the client and therefore give unbiased counselling.

The aim of counselling is to assist the person, so they (not the counsellor) can make the best decision for themselves and their situation. Therefore the counsellor's views on abortion are irrelevant, as their role is to support the person through the problem solving/decision making process.

As someone who has received pregnancy counselling, I was very pleased by my experience with Children by Choice (infact they were the ones who told me about bubhub), who are not church run, but independent and give you the facts on all options. As someone who also is a counsellor, I'm a little defensive about Cinta's comment. (Remember I 've been on both sides and am in no way judging anybody - personally I don't think you should be ashamed to have had an abortion.) However, I do take the point that there are lots of people out there without training and with agendas who are taking advantage of people in vulnerable situations. I have counselled women with unwanted/unexpected pregnancies and prided myself on giving them a professional service, not my opinion and they left having made the right decision for themself.

[Cinta]

Whilst you have some great points I do disagree with you on an issue. Yes, counsellors should have the appropriate training and qualifications therefore they should be giving ubiased counselling...however...if the counselling is through the catholic church then of course they are going to influence their opinion on people, regardless of whether or not they are trained to not do this. Its human nature. If they want to give an unbiass opinion then IMO it shouldn't be run through the catholic church..........hmmmm did that make sense? lol :)


A counsellor should have appropriate training, qualifications and abide by practice standards and code of ethics set down by a professional association. If this is the case, then he/she can be professional and should be getting professional supervision, so they are not transferring their views/biases onto the client and therefore give unbiased counselling.

The aim of counselling is to assist the person, so they (not the counsellor) can make the best decision for themselves and their situation. Therefore the counsellor's views on abortion are irrelevant, as their role is to support the person through the problem solving/decision making process.

As someone who has received pregnancy counselling, I was very pleased by my experience with Children by Choice (infact they were the ones who told me about bubhub), who are not church run, but independent and give you the facts on all options. As someone who also is a counsellor, I'm a little defensive about Cinta's comment. (Remember I 've been on both sides and am in no way judging anybody - personally I don't think you should be ashamed to have had an abortion.) However, I do take the point that there are lots of people out there without training and with agendas who are taking advantage of people in vulnerable situations. I have counselled women with unwanted/unexpected pregnancies and prided myself on giving them a professional service, not my opinion and they left having made the right decision for themself.

[zenifa]

Cinta
I have no problem with churches providing counselling, but I guess if I was approaching a catholic run service then I would expect that all the people working there, regardless of their qualifications, would be coming from a catholic viewpoint, so I wouldn't expect unbiased advice.

As I'm not catholic, nor christian, I would never use their services. I do however think that these organisations should be upfront about their status (govt, non-govt, christian, pro-life, pro-choice etc), so those seeking help are aware of their viewpoint and potential agenda.

[NZMama]

Nobody would really have that much issue with churches/etc having their own services for discussing such things.

The problem is agenda-driven people masquerading as unbiased sources in an attempt to unfairly manipulate their clients.

I'd still maintain that anyone purporting to be a counsellor has the duty to be neutral, though. If they want to push people down one specific road, they can call themselves something else.


I completely agree with this opinion.
If I wanted information I would want to see the full picture and turning to someone who has only one point of view wouldnt be helpful at all. Therefore if I knew the service was run by catholics I wouldnt call them. Common sense tells you in advance of what you will be told.
IMO you shouldnt be calling a helpline for advice as such, just information and maybe support. Advice should come from those closest to you and those that you trust, not a stranger. These helplines should just ensure that you are aware of all the facts and choice available to you, so that you make a fully informed decision. Your the one who has to live with it at the end of the day, you will probably never talk to that person on the phone again.
Scare tactics to me is another form of bullying. Most dont need to see a pic of a foetus in a womans hand to understand what you are doing....some already have children as well and are more than well aware.

[Pippi Longstocking]

The role of counsellor isn't to offer advice, and certainly not to push an agenda. Counsellors are trained to simply reflect what the client is saying. A good counsellor helps a person realise that which they already knew.
I have counselled people contemplating abortion. My personal feelings on the matter were irrelevant, nor helpful.
I think that the idea of offering biased counselling is an oxymoron in itself.

[xkwzit]

Let keep to the topic of the OP: abortion advice, this thread is not about anyone's personal opinion of abortion, its about the conselling provided to women and the organisations that provide it.

Cheers

[oleander]

yes, i read the Marie Claire article. I think it's disgusting that they showed that girl the video of aborted feotuses in buckets - sorry but thats just sick! If a woman goes for advice about abortion (or anything else) she should be given unbiased advice. These pro-life people are entitled to their opinions but should not be allowed to be in business. Im not saying that I agree or disagree with abortion but I do think that everone has a choice and that every woman has a different reason for making her choice.

[luckymama]

yes, i read the Marie Claire article. I think it's disgusting that they showed that girl the video of aborted feotuses in buckets - sorry but thats just sick! If a woman goes for advice about abortion (or anything else) she should be given unbiased advice. These pro-life people are entitled to their opinions but should not be allowed to be in business. Im not saying that I agree or disagree with abortion but I do think that everone has a choice and that every woman has a different reason for making her choice.

yeah i agree with that.
i recently came across a prolife website, with video and images that sickened me about abortions, but as i mentioned earlier, i got pg on the pill four years ago, when i first met my DF, and we decided a termination was the best thing to do. Now if i had seen this website four years ago, i could never had gone through with an abortion, then we would have been struggling, at that time we could have never afforded to raise a child, and i dont watch to have to struggle while trying to raise a child. So what i am trying to say is showing people these kind of things while they are trying to decide whether or not to have an abortion, is very wrong, it affects the decision making process.

[luckymama]

oh and it would have been the wrong reason for me to keep the baby,
Dont get me wrong, i do regret doing it, but we were being careful, ie on the pill at the time, and we could not have properly cared for a baby with our income at the time