For those of you who went against doctors orders...

[mizzmoo]

...when it came to your labour/birth?

It got me thinking after a friend of mine recently gave birth and told me the doctor was trying to convince her to have a c-section because she was labouring for too long, she refused and gave birth naturally no problems an hour later.

I’m always reading in threads things like ‘you have the right to refuse medical intervention’ etc etc.

But how do we know what’s right for us and our baby?

Are we that empowered at the time to make such a decision? Medical fact vs what your body tells you?

This being my first, I’m wanting for it to go as naturally as possible but if a doctor comes up to me and tell me I need forceps, or a c-section, how do I say ‘no, I know my body better and I can do this’. I’m not sure I could defy doctors orders when I would assume they know what’s best for bubs and I!

Would be interested to hear experiences on this.

Hope this makes sense without sounding too crazy!

[grugwashere]

Makes sense lol :)

I am alsways one to listen to the doctors because I dont always know whats going on in my body. At the end of the day my priority was safely delivering my baby (which is why I ended up with an elecitve caesar).

If I had a natural birth I probably would have just listened to what the doctors suggested. I know a woman who flat out refused a caesar during labour even though the doctors kept telling her she needed one and ended up with a very life threatening emergency caesarian and a hysterectomy- this scared the sh*t out of me. She was insitant she could do it on her own. I think with some things you do know, but others its not worth the risk.

[MamaBleech]

To me, it is about taking responsibility for your own birth. There are a couple of things that I think get forgotten when it comes to standard medical care.

Hospitals are businesses. And like any business they have contractual obligations (with pharmaceutical (sp) companies) to fufill and policies/protocols to follow. This means that they DO NOT take your individual circumstances into account - it is a one size fits all approach and the fact is that not all women dilate 1cm/hr or only push for 2 hours. Just because you don't labour to their time frame doesn't mean there is anything wrong. Unfortunately this scenario is often construed as 'failure to progress' or some 'assistance' to 'get things moving' is offered, often with disasterous consequences.

My point is, if you understand how hospitals operate and you are educated in the benefits and risks of EVERY procedure you are in a position to make informed decisions that are right for you and your baby.

If you want a natural birth in a hospital, labour at home for as long as possible and have a detailed birthplan stating your wishes. Hire a Doula to support you and research research research. I also refused all routine tests to avoid being labelled 'high risk' and as long as I was able to state my reasons why (low risk category etc) the hospital were fine with it. Lots of scare tactics are employed, big babies, small pelvises, small babies, late babies - most of it is rubbish once you start looking into it!

It is really important to avoid induction too!

Sorry I've rambled a bit, hope it helps :)

[Theophania]

I think doing your research and being informed is your best bet. Doctors are there for a reason, but I think sometimes they trust their own abilities (surgery etc) more than a laboring womans body (which is what it is made to do iykwim). I am not saying there isn't a place for cesareans, they are fantastic when really needed and save lives, although currently I think they are waaayyy too common. I think that care providers do need to step back and let women do what comes naturally to them most of the time.

As for me, well I put too much trust in my care providers and ended up feeling like I was betrayed etc. So this time I have done plenty of research, I know my rights and if a doctor suggests interventions of any kind, I will be asking a lot of questions ie. why does it need to be done, what are the risks, can we wait another hour and see how I go without it? I think it is about communication and give and take from both sides.

[Mathermy]

To me, it is about taking responsibility for your own birth. There are a couple of things that I think get forgotten when it comes to standard medical care.

Hospitals are businesses. And like any business they have contractual obligations (with pharmaceutical (sp) companies) to fufill and policies/protocols to follow. This means that they DO NOT take your individual circumstances into account - it is a one size fits all approach and the fact is that not all women dilate 1cm/hr or only push for 2 hours. Just because you don't labour to their time frame doesn't mean there is anything wrong. Unfortunately this scenario is often construed as 'failure to progress' or some 'assistance' to 'get things moving' is offered, often with disasterous consequences.

My point is, if you understand how hospitals operate and you are educated in the benefits and risks of EVERY procedure you are in a position to make informed decisions that are right for you and your baby.

If you want a natural birth in a hospital, labour at home for as long as possible and have a detailed birthplan stating your wishes. Hire a Doula to support you and research research research. I also refused all routine tests to avoid being labelled 'high risk' and as long as I was able to state my reasons why (low risk category etc) the hospital were fine with it. Lots of scare tactics are employed, big babies, small pelvises, small babies, late babies - most of it is rubbish once you start looking into it!

It is really important to avoid induction too!

Sorry I've rambled a bit, hope it helps :)

Yup:yes:

My advice would be if something doesn't feel right, don't just accept it, ask questions and yes, do your own research! Knowledge is power particularly in an institutionalised setting like a hospital.

You have every right for every single thing they want to do to be explained to you, in minute detail if necessary and really they should be asking your permission, and treating you like a person rather than cattle!

They wanted to induce me, and there simply didn't seem to be a good reason so I spoke with the head ob and he basically couldn't give me a reasonable straight answer so we held off. His reaction to me showed that he was not used to having to explain his decisions and it made me wonder how many women have unneccessary procedures blindly done to them because they just assume their Ob is without fault. I may not have a medical degree but I am not an idiot and do not appreciate being treated like one.

[mizzmoo]

thanks for your replies ladies :thumbsup:



Hospitals are businesses. And like any business they have contractual obligations (with pharmaceutical (sp) companies) to fufill and policies/protocols to follow. This means that they DO NOT take your individual circumstances into account - it is a one size fits all approach and the fact is that not all women dilate 1cm/hr or only push for 2 hours. Just because you don't labour to their time frame doesn't mean there is anything wrong. Unfortunately this scenario is often construed as 'failure to progress' or some 'assistance' to 'get things moving' is offered, often with disasterous consequences.

If you want a natural birth in a hospital, labour at home for as long as possible and have a detailed birthplan stating your wishes. Hire a Doula to support you and research research research. I also refused all routine tests to avoid being labelled 'high risk' and as long as I was able to state my reasons why (low risk category etc) the hospital were fine with it. Lots of scare tactics are employed, big babies, small pelvises, small babies, late babies - most of it is rubbish once you start looking into it!

It is really important to avoid induction too!

Sorry I've rambled a bit, hope it helps

Very good point about the hospital being a business, and I think this is important to realise before the birth as I wouldn't have even thought about it during labour.

See the induction thing stumps me too - I'm hearing that it's not good for them to break your waters but have heard that it's also necessary. I know already now to limit the amount of VE's unless they tell you how far along you are, I guess it's when it comes to the bigger things like c-section that's what I'll be a bit torn between how I feel and what the doc tells me.

I've done as much reading and research as I possibly can into all of this but without a medical degree - I still don't feel confident! BUT reading your posts has helped me realise we're capable of making the right decisions when it comes to labour and birth - I just hope it runs as smoothly as I 'planned' it out :)

[MamaBleech]

Look c-sections IMO are a necessary evil in maternity care and they save lives. BUT the fact remains that WHO recommend a 5% ceasarian rate and Australia's rate is around 33% (I could be slightly off). You don't have to be an Ob or a mathematician to work out that theres a whole lot of unnecessary surgery going on in this country.

The 'Cascade of Intervention' explains a lot.

The BEST resource I found in my pregnancy was Sarah Buckley "Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering". Shes a GP into natural birth and this is a wealth of information in regards to routine procedures and their outcomes.

[Guest]

I'm not one to believe all ob's are evil, working to their schedule. There are high rates of c/s, I agree, but I think the other thing to look at is the places with low c/s rates and how they compare with labour complications to the mother and the baby. No one ever posts that and I'd be genuinly interested to see.
I could have had forceps or a c/s, there was no way he was coming naturally, so I believe a c/s was best (as did my ob) and I truly believe forceps would have caused alot more damage to me and possibly him.
I was also told once I dilated fully I'd need a c/s and I refused also, I pushed for 3 hours instead and it was me who gave up in the end, otherwise I would have stayed there till the next day if I truly believed he was coming down. I wasn't pushed or forced and I believe I had the opportunity to birth naturally but it wasn't happening and I could feel it wasn't. For me, it was the care beforehand while in labour and my preperation to labour naturally in the weeks leading up that determined that c/s, not what happened in the end, does that make sense? That was my experience though, and everyone has a diffrent experience.
I also refused blood tests in labour and no one could get a needle near me. So you do have somewhat control and if you don't want something, they can't force you and just go with your instincts.

[Mum2adarlin]

Hi,
When I had my bubs the birthplan went totally out the window. However my only plan was to have a healthy baby.
I didn't go into labour I had the flu and they monitored bubs as a precaution but initally told me not even to come to the hospital. During monitoring his heart rate dropped to 27 bpm (they said it was a faulty machine! and just to rest everyhing would be fine) I with lots of expletives told them that I didn't care about their machine I just wanted bubs out safely. 20 minutes later they delivered him via emergency C section they said 5 minutes longer and he would have been dead.

So what I learned from this is that you can't always do it the way you hope to but as long as everyone survives then it's all good.
and you will know what is best for bubs and yourself when the time comes I DID despite everyone not thinking I was even sick enough to go to hosp. When it comes to you and your baby don't be afraid to say what you think it saved my son's life!

Sorry for the long post!:ecomcity::ecomcity:
Hope it makes sense to you

[MamaKoala]

Look c-sections IMO are a necessary evil in maternity care and they save lives. BUT the fact remains that WHO recommend a 5% ceasarian rate and Australia's rate is around 33% (I could be slightly off). You don't have to be an Ob or a mathematician to work out that theres a whole lot of unnecessary surgery going on in this country.

The 'Cascade of Intervention' explains a lot.

The BEST resource I found in my pregnancy was Sarah Buckley "Gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering". Shes a GP into natural birth and this is a wealth of information in regards to routine procedures and their outcomes.

This is an excellent book and I would also recommend it. I was lucky to have a fabulous midwife team who also believed in what I wanted for my birth. They were basically just their to watch and they gently explained everything to me while I was in labour (the whole 20 minutes I was there LOL). They were very in tune with what was happening when I walked in and were very quick to react but in a gentle way, that didn't intimidate me or make me feel like they didn't have my interests at heart. They reminded me not to touch the baby while we were in the bath until she was all the way out, and said that I could birth the placenta on my own because they were happy with my iron levels. Having professionals who are there for you is really important. And make sure you have someone you can trust to make medical decisions on your behalf if you are too distracted by labour. (I had my mother help me decide with my second birth).
With my second son it became necessary to break my waters as I did not progress for 6 hours but once they did, he came out in two pushes.
Definitely have a plan in place, ask questions before the birth, like when they may find it necessary to intervene, suggest surgery etc so that you are aware of what they may say during your labour. Put everything you are NOT willing to agree to at the top of your list, and the things you can be asked or guided with underneath. Above all, be secure in the fact that at the end of the day, if you feel that you trust your Dr, then you will know if he or she thinks that action needs to be taken if they feel you or the baby are not safe to continue.
All the best :)

[Tam-I-Am]

Just remember BRAN when you're in labour:

Benefits of the proposed procedure
Risks of the proposed procedure
Alternatives to the proposed procedure
(do) Nothing if you're unsatisfied with the necessity.

Unless it's a crash c-sect (ie where they get you into the ER within a 5-minute time frame because you or the baby are about to die), then you have time to ask questions and be satisfied with the responses before you make a decision. It's hard to make decisions in labour - especially if somebody pulls the 'dead baby' card on you, your instinct is to implicitly trust the medical profession who is attending you, but if it hasn't been explained to your satisfaction then you always have the right to refuse.

[MimiGrace]

There are high rates of c/s, I agree, but I think the other thing to look at is the places with low c/s rates and how they compare with labour complications to the mother and the baby. No one ever posts that and I'd be genuinly interested to see.
Reading homebirth stats is [to me] the best way to get the above information :thumbsup:
(if anyone has any stats for high-homebirthing countries, that would be great - i've only seen the ones for SA).

I believe the recommended cesarean rate is around 10% - it was around 11% in homebirths in 2007 in SA.
and they think a 20-30% 'intervention rate' (ie. where they really "need" an induction and/or an assisted-non cesarean delivery) over all.
but our 'intervention rate' is closer to 80-90% in this country :wave: (i think)

(and i'm trying to find stats for you :o i hate posting info without being able to proove its acurate)

[katieinwa]

i went against doctors advice, i had a normal intervention free birth after a c/s ! well the occasional listening in with a hand held doppler and thats it.