Ned Kelly

[SamanthaJane]

Did anyone watch Sunrise the other morning when they were talking about Ned Kelly?

They were asking the question of whether Ned Kelly is a hero or a villain.

Now I can see both sides of the debate. I understand why some would see him as a villain, I mean after all, he is a thief and a cop killer. But I realise he is still a hero because he was fighting for his family and ultimately, for justice. He was standing up for what he believed in.

So, in a way, I think he is a bit of both. But, ultimately, if I had to choose between whether he was a hero or villain, I’d have to choose hero.

What do you think? If you had to choose one, hero or villain, what would it be?

[Seekrit]

you watch a lot of Sunrise? lol!
I love ned kelly, but I don't know if it's a hero or a villain... I mean he did those things to avenge his mother's arrest which seems noble, but he did bad things. The ladies all said he was a gentleman tho'.

Hmmm...

I have to choose one, don't I.... I'll go Hero. Because he's lovely.

[Melo]

I chose Hero, i'm not sure why! He very much so intrigues me, there is something about him!!! :)

[SamanthaJane]

you watch a lot of Sunrise? lol!


Only the last 15-20 minutes ... i like the listen to Nelson with the HollyWood gossip! ;)

[Seekrit]

hehe I have it on from when Cobey wakes me until it ends. (If anything, I like the background noise)

[Rainbowbrite]

I'd class him as an anti-hero. The police of the time were corupt & were killers themselves. He was trying to help out his family & friends by doing what he had to do for survival. If he made some profit on the side then good for him :thumbsup:

So i'll have to vote hero from the options available :yes:

[pookiesossige]

Rainbowbrite, you are so on the money! Nasty cops and a bloke looking out for his fam. Well, that might be a simplistic way of looking at it, but I chose hero.

What a coincidence - In an hour we are heading off to Beechworth for the avo! (he robbed the bank there I believe)

[Mamaduke]

So a 'gang' comes across Police doing their job, the 'gang' ambushes the Police, a gun fight ensues and the officers are killed...
is this man a hero?

No, I'm not actually talking about Ned Kelly, I'm talking about Bandali Debs who along with his little sidekick ambushed two Police Officers
Gary Silk and Rod Miller in Melbourne on August 15 1998...

I wonder if in a hundred years time we'll also think he was a 'hero'?

What a joke!:no:

[Verdi]

I agree with mama duke, i will not be teaching my kids that Ned Kelly was a hero. Would you consider anyone stealing and murdering a hero nowadays.:rolleyes:

[Elijahsmama]

I agree with Rainbowbrite. I think the crimes he commited were horrible but if it was him or the dodgy policemen - i would hope that Ned was the last man standing!

[Rainbowbrite]

No-one is saying that he would be a hero if he were alive today. Back then was a very different time.

[Mamaduke]

No-one is saying that he would be a hero if he were alive today. Back then was a very different time.

Murdering Police Officers, stealing & robbery was just as much a crime back then as it is today...there is no difference whatsoever!

[Tam-I-Am]

Just to play devil's advocate - there is a difference. There is now internal affairs investigative units for corrupt police officers, there is recourse if a miscarriage of justice occurs, there are appeals processes for courts, there's centrelink for families who can't make money and can't affort to live.....There's a world of difference.

Having said that - I don't really have an opinion on whether Ned Kelly was a hero or a villain. Obviously there is a fairly fine line between the two, and I'm sure other heros throughout history are actually questionable too - afterall, history is written by the winners not the losers - so the loser rarely get to voice their opinions regarding so-called heros.

Interesting thread, BTW!

[SamanthaJane]

I'm sure other heros throughout history are actually questionable too - afterall, history is written by the winners not the losers - so the loser rarely get to voice their opinions regarding so-called heros.

Thats a really interesting point actually!! :yes:

[Rainbowbrite]

Just to play devil's advocate - there is a difference. There is now internal affairs investigative units for corrupt police officers, there is recourse if a miscarriage of justice occurs, there are appeals processes for courts, there's centrelink for families who can't make money and can't affort to live.....There's a world of difference.

Thats what i was trying to say.

Just to re-iterate my point, i never called him a hero. I called him an ANTI-HERO


Anti-hero
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In literature and film, an anti-hero has widely come to mean a fictional character who has some characteristics that are antithetical to those of the traditional hero. An anti-hero in today's books and films will perform acts generally deemed "heroic," but will do so with methods, manners, or intentions that may not be heroic. The actual use of the word, however, is fairly recent, and its primary meaning has somewhat changed. As recently as 1940, the 600,000-word Merriam-Webster New International Dictionary, Second Edition, listed it but without a definition. By 1992 the American Heritage Dictionary of the American Language defined an anti-hero only as "a main character in a dramatic or narrative work who is characterized by a lack of traditional heroic qualities, such as idealism or courage," not as a person who nevertheless performs heroic acts. Even the more recent Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 11th Edition, of 2004, says: "(1714): a protagonist or notable figure who is conspicuously lacking in heroic qualities." The original meaning, therefore, is that of a protagonist who is ineffectual and hapless, rather than resolute and determined, whether his motives are good or bad. In some instances, anti-hero has come to refer to a protagonist of a work whose actions and motives are villainous or questionable.

Thus, anti-heroes can be awkward, antisocial, alienated, cruel, obnoxious, passive, pitiful, obtuse, or just ordinary. When the anti-hero is a central character in a work of fiction the work will frequently deal with the effect their flawed character has on them and those they meet along the narrative. In other words, an anti-hero is a protagonist that lives by the guidance of their own moral compass, striving to define and construe their own values as opposed to those recognized by the society in which they live. Additionally, the work may depict how their character alters over time, either leading to punishment, un-heroic success, or redemption.

[jemma's dad]

I don't think that he was a hero, but then it depends on who's perspective you look at it from. The people that he was stealing from, definately thought that he was a villian. Those of the same class as him, they may well of though of his as a hero, not so much for his crimes, but because he was afraid to stand up to the police, who at that time may well have abused their power, especially against those of the lower class.

Having looked into this subject (ned kelly) a little, the main reason that all of this occurred was one of the police officers, for the life of me I cannot remember which one, had a crush on one of his sisters (anne??) and she had rejected him. After that happened, the police, who were very close knit, started to target the kelly family for anything that they could, including making up evidence when they needed to, and eventually, Ned Kelly got to breaking point, which is where it all started from.

I am remembering this from a few years ago, so it may not be completely accurate, but I have done a bit of research on him, as I do have more than just a normal historical interest in him

Aaron