View Full Version : I need help please my home is not a home it is hell.
I need help please my home is not a home it is hell. :crying:
What are you house Rule's.
Do you let your child talk back? What is classed as a child talking back?
Last night Dh hit DD because she was talking back to me. I was :confused: It sound like she was just talking to me, not talking back.
She wanted cake I told her after the show I was watching was finshed, she said what about next ad break. I was about to reply when Dh hit her for talking back. To me she was not talking back. was I wrong is that talking back?
When Dh talk's 99.9% he sounds really angry. Would that upset you. or would you just think thats how he talk's?
What would you do if every time you were in the car with your Dh he got really angry and yelled at the other car (even knowing that they wouldn't hear him)
Before any one say's he need to see some one i've tryed it's never going to happen. Not in this life time.
Bell & Bug
04-04-2010, 12:37
Um it sounds like he has some real anger issues, and he really does need to see some one about it. The fact he wont says he is in denial about his anger, and until he recognises his anger then there is no way he will get better. In fact it could get worse.
I'm on my phone atm, so can't see your daughters age, how old is she?
Personally I would be either kicking him out, or packing mine and the childrens things and moving out.
mummyvioletta
04-04-2010, 12:41
:hugs: i too have similar issues with my dh but i have no idea what to do either. just wanted to let you know you are not alone :hugs:
Um it sounds like he has some real anger issues, and he really does need to see some one about it. The fact he wont says he is in denial about his anger, and until he recognises his anger then there is no way he will get better. In fact it could get worse.
I'm on my phone atm, so can't see your daughters age, how old is she?
Personally I would be either kicking him out, or packing mine and the childrens things and moving out.
:iagree: if he wont address HIS problem then why should it be anyone elses problem to deal with.
Your daughter was not talking back, kids do what she does its called negotiating.
If she said "Mum you suck" or something like that perhaps he would have a reason to be cranky..
He is so wrong..
Road rage was a major problem for my husband too and it is classified as abuse. I refuse to get in the car with my husband unless he agrees to not do it.
Mum2Mimi
04-04-2010, 12:44
Um it sounds like he has some real anger issues, and he really does need to see some one about it. The fact he wont says he is in denial about his anger, and until he recognises his anger then there is no way he will get better. In fact it could get worse.
I'm on my phone atm, so can't see your daughters age, how old is she?
Personally I would be either kicking him out, or packing mine and the childrens things and moving out.
:iagree: if he wont address HIS problem then why should it be anyone elses problem to deal with.
Your daughter was not talking back, kids do what she does its called negotiating.
If she said "Mum you suck" or something like that perhaps he would have a reason to be cranky..
He is so wrong..
Road rage was a major problem for my husband too and it is classified as abuse. I refuse to get in the car with my husband unless he agrees to not do it.
:iagree:
trishalishous
04-04-2010, 12:49
I can't comment on a lot of your post, but my grandfather spoke gruffly, rather than angrily, and sounded like he was upset most of the time, but never raised his voice at us. he had no time for idiots, and enjoyed debate, so it did come across wrong sometimes.
my dh also has road rage issues, and is trying hard to learn to let it go,or just be quiet. I won't have Language in front of our kids, that's for sure. it sounds like you know the problem,but he's not willing to work for a solution.
:hugs:
brogeybear
04-04-2010, 12:49
Yep - sorry but he DOES need to see someone and if he WONT see someone then it shouldn't be your problem to deal with. Maybe if you leave it would be the wake up call he needs, if not then maybe you'd be better off without him in yours and you childrens lives?
What he did is abuse and is unacceptable. She was not talking back, she was not being smart or sarcastic, she was respectfully negotiating. Its what children should do and they should not be abused for it!
mum2bubba
04-04-2010, 12:51
I don't think your daughter was talking back and even if she was there's no need for your partner or anyone to hit her.
He has an anger problem that needs addressing.
If he doesn't change his ways and gets help, I'd consider leaving.
DD is 8 years old.
Morrigan that is how I see it as she is trying to negotiate. I can't see why a child can't negotiate some stuff. I think it makes it easyer when it come to other stuff that she has no say in.
As for kicking him out, well I can't it's his house I don't have a say in it. If I kick him out I then have so many days to get out myself.
As for the kids and me moving out I can't at this time even start to think about it. My depression is really bad and my anxiety is shocking I need to get that sorted before I can look at putting any thing else on top.
That's why i'm trying to work out other things. Like house rules. So Dh and I have the same rule's. I want to start to try and work together not apart like we have from day one.
DD is 8 years old.
Morrigan that is how I see it as she is trying to negotiate. I can't see why a child can't negotiate some stuff. I think it makes it easyer when it come to other stuff that she has no say in.
As for kicking him out, well I can't it's his house I don't have a say in it. If I kick him out I then have so many days to get out myself.
As for the kids and me moving out I can't at this time even start to think about it. My depression is really bad and my anxiety is shocking I need to get that sorted before I can look at putting any thing else on top.
That's why i'm trying to work out other things. Like house rules. So Dh and I have the same rule's. I want to start to try and work together not apart like we have from day one.
what reason does he have to change?
I found with my DH he didnt change until I put the kids in the car and didnt come back from a hotel room at the coast for 3 days. Then he decided things needed to change.
while i was there and not threatening his security he just kept on with his negative behaviours.
they dont change cause you want them too.
I can't comment on a lot of your post, but my grandfather spoke gruffly, rather than angrily, and sounded like he was upset most of the time, but never raised his voice at us. he had no time for idiots, and enjoyed debate, so it did come across wrong sometimes.
my dh also has road rage issues, and is trying hard to learn to let it go,or just be quiet. I won't have Language in front of our kids, that's for sure. it sounds like you know the problem,but he's not willing to work for a solution.
:hugs:
That's what i'm trying to work out if it is just the way he talk's. He talk's like that at work too.
With the road rage he said I have never said any thing about it before. I don't care if he say's something about the way the person is driving but not yelling it out.
it sounds like all your daughter needed was a "no, we are not discussing this"...
definitely not a smack.
and he does sound like he needs some anger management but unless he is willing to change obviously that won't happen..
are you thinking of leaving him?
I think he should know if it comes down to your kids happiness and wellbeing or his, you will always pick your kids.
Bell & Bug
04-04-2010, 13:06
I don't think he will be willing to change his ways if he doesn't see a need to. If he doesn't recognise his anger then he wont do anything about it. Making rules for him won't help either :( because if he sees nothing wrong with his behaviour, then he won't see the need for changing it.
what reason does he have to change?
I found with my DH he didnt change until I put the kids in the car and didnt come back from a hotel room at the coast for 3 days. Then he decided things needed to change.
while i was there and not threatening his security he just kept on with his negative behaviours.
they dont change cause you want them too.
I don't have the money to go and stay in a hotel. I don't have any money full stop at this time. We could go and park some where and sleep/live in the car for a few day's that's it.
I don't think he will be willing to change his ways if he doesn't see a need to. If he doesn't recognise his anger then he wont do anything about it. Making rules for him won't help either :( because if he sees nothing wrong with his behaviour, then he won't see the need for changing it.
I'm not looking at making rule's for him. I'm looking at what DD can and can't do so rule's for her. So they both know.
Does any one have a rule's list (what there kids can't do) in there house?
I don't have the money to go and stay in a hotel. I don't have any money full stop at this time. We could go and park some where and sleep/live in the car for a few day's that's it.
Being a mother with kids makes us so vulnerable on so many levels and abusive pricks know it too.
I couldnt afford it either, i used money we would have put into rent.
I wasnt planning on coming back either. I was going to go to a hostel or find somewhere.. didnt care where, anywhere was better than there.
he agreed to leave the house so we could come back and we were separated for a few weeks ... till he began counselling..
its been a slow recovery, but there are only very rare occasions of anger displayed now ..
Bell & Bug
04-04-2010, 13:15
Are you wanting rules for your daughter because you feel she is out of control, or to minimise his anger?
Being a mother with kids makes us so vulnerable on so many levels and abusive pricks know it too.
I couldnt afford it either, i used money we would have put into rent.
I wasnt planning on coming back either. I was going to go to a hostel or find somewhere.. didnt care where, anywhere was better than there.
he agreed to leave the house so we could come back and we were separated for a few weeks ... till he began counselling..
its been a slow recovery, but there are only very rare occasions of anger displayed now ..
It's not a case of I can't afford it. I don't have the money in the bank full stop.
Most people would not have a 'rule list' in their home. Kids are work in progress.
They dont normally read the list :laughing: even if you made one.
basic rules would include
chores before play
homework before play
No hitting / kicking each other
If kids are argueing with you it is not necessarily a punishment needed. Unless they are yelling, hitting you, slamming things or breaking things etc.
arguements are a normal part of living together, its just abuse is not acceptable from kids or adults.
but they will copy the adults behaviour regardless.
And even if you had a rule list and the kids followed it, and your husband still punished them for things that are not on the rule list.. do you just keep adding things for his benefit
is the rule list to keep him happy and them safe? Or is it to keep them organised?
i dont get it.
MummaBear03
04-04-2010, 13:56
They dont normally read the list :laughing: even if you made one.
Sorry, just had to laugh at that. I've been saying from birth "My child obviously read a different book to the one you go by" :laughing:
I agree, your daughter was conversing, negotiating, perhaps trying to find out more clearly what you were meaning. DD does that. Sometimes she's say "I hate you!" or "That sucks you need to do this NOW!" in which case that's an early bed time for her, or she might miss out entirely on what she was trying to get off me. Very different to what your daughter was saying.
If I had more room I'd offer for you to stay here, just long enough to have a break and decide what to do from here.
:hugs: I don't know what to suggest really, maybe have a chat with him about acceptable behaviours and unacceptable behaviours from a child? Perhaps do some reading with him about a normal 8 year old? I find with many people, the behaviour of the child is age-appropriate, where the parent is expecting something that isn't age appropriate for another 10 years so of course the child is going to "fail" at it, then the child is the one in trouble for "failing" to behave in what the parent deems an appropriate manner.
Just Add Water
04-04-2010, 13:58
We have 4 kids - almost 10, almost 7, almost 6 & 1... rules in this house are simple:
Respect each other
Listen to each other
Do everything to the best of your ability - as long as you have tried your best then we will help, if you're going to be lazy and can't be bothered then you will get less help.
Don't steal
Don't make someone feel bad on purpose (like taking someone else's toy and laughing because they get upset, we have issues with Miss almost 7 about this one)
Don't hit or kick
If someone is upsetting you ask them politely 3 times to stop or leave before coming to see an adult, dobbing was getting out of control
Don't lie. Ever.
Don't argue, no means no.
In the case of what you mentioned then no, I wouldn't say that is talking back, that is a kid trying their luck a bit more lol it can get frustrating and I have snapped at our kids when they do it a lot, but it's just them being kids.
Jobs: (for 3 older ones obviously, though the 1 year old does help pack up his toys).
Make your bed each morning
Put dirty clothes out morning / night
Shower each night & hang up your towels
Put your clothes away
Tidy up your toys when you're finished / outside toys & bikes as well
Put the dishes away if asked
Keep your room reasonable or be prepared to lose some of your weekend cleaning up a week's worth of mess - that is their choice to make.
We also have other things around the house that we will ask them to help with from time to time but we usually have a cleanup afternoon or morning on the weekend where we all pitch in for an hour or so and it gets it all done.
I have to be honest, reading your post about your DH's attitude made me quite sad, because I am the same as him. I react far too quickly and spend a lot of my time with the kids being angry - and it is such a horrible place to be in life. I spend most days / nights when the kids aren't around in tears because I know I am doing a terrible job parenting them and I try so hard every day. I am on my own a lot as DH travels for work quite a bit, but that is no excuse for it. I am making myself spend more time with the kids doing positive things, as hard as it is for me, but I am hoping that by pretending I'm enjoying them I might start to again.
I hope you find some answers. xx
BabelFish
04-04-2010, 14:06
Is your husband abusive towards you hon? I only ask because you sound anxious and frightened yourself and not having any access to any money, saying it's 'his' house etc ... well that is concerning.
Are your parents nearby or any other family you are in touch with?
Bell & Bug
04-04-2010, 14:14
Is your husband abusive towards you hon? I only ask because you sound anxious and frightened yourself and not having any access to any money, saying it's 'his' house etc ... well that is concerning.
Are your parents nearby or any other family you are in touch with?
I hope not :( but I was wondering the same, hence why I asked if she wanted rules for more consistency or to prevent friction with her husband.
:hugs:
Is your husband abusive towards you hon? I only ask because you sound anxious and frightened yourself and not having any access to any money, saying it's 'his' house etc ... well that is concerning.
Are your parents nearby or any other family you are in touch with?
I Have no money as it has gone on food and bills, easter, art's and craft stuff for hoildays. I get more money later in the week. If we need more food, or if the kids are sick and need stuff then DH will pay for it. With the money I get half of his pay + every thing from centrelink. That is one thing DH is great about. As for the house it's his house as it come's with his job.
MummyDaddy
04-04-2010, 15:43
I don't consider that talking back.
What I find frightening is the corporal punishment treatment of a small child.
If you say he refuses to get help then seriously you need to consider your CHILDS future at the hands of this man. If he considers that hitting back - then what happens if she really does do something naughty - will he give her a full on belting? I'm betting he's probably already done that.
It's NEVER ok to hit a child in my opinion.
BabelFish
04-04-2010, 15:48
I Have no money as it has gone on food and bills, easter, art's and craft stuff for hoildays. I get more money later in the week. If we need more food, or if the kids are sick and need stuff then DH will pay for it. With the money I get half of his pay + every thing from centrelink. That is one thing DH is great about. As for the house it's his house as it come's with his job.
Then that says to me that you will have some money within the next couple of weeks?
If that's the case, I'd do what Morri suggested and go and stay somewhere for a bit. Stuff the bills - these things can always be worked out if it is a short-term issue.
Your family's function is far more important and hitting your daughter for pretty much no reason at all, whatsoever, is just not on in the slightest.
Just Add Water
04-04-2010, 15:51
I don't consider that talking back.
What I find frightening is the corporal punishment treatment of a small child.
If you say he refuses to get help then seriously you need to consider your CHILDS future at the hands of this man. If he considers that hitting back - then what happens if she really does do something naughty - will he give her a full on belting? I'm betting he's probably already done that.
It's NEVER ok to hit a child in my opinion.
this is not a debate about smacking, the OP asked a question and that was do we consider it to be talking back and what rules we have in place.
will he give her a full on belting? I'm betting he's probably already done that. I'm betting he's probably already done that.
NO NO NO. I said he hit her and told her to stop back talking. I didn't say that he has every given her a full on belting...........:rolleyes:
He would never do that. If he ever did even if I couldn't go (as I have no family I can stay with) she would be out the door to go and stay at my step Mums.
BabelFish
04-04-2010, 15:58
We are going to sit down tonight and talk about acceptable behaviours in our house. DD is only 20 months and DS 12 weeks, but she is starting to test her boundaries.
This morning I put into practice the `1, 2, 3 Magic!' method and it has worked incredibly all day. We have had our first day without a tantrum in ages. She is also much more affectionate and content ... because she has some boundaries that have been helping her feel more secure.
She had boundaries before, but I wasn't enforcing them effectively. Too much talking, too many words - she was just getting confused.
Your kids are older, but it's a good method that is kind, loving and worth having a look into to see if it will help your DH with his temper.
I can certainly empathise with the OP's feelings. Yes your daughter was negotiating, completely normal for her age and appropriate.
I also understand your DH has got some issues with anger, and clearly thinks its okay to smack a child. Relationships Aust, has group programs for men called Alternatives to Aggression, it could be worth seeking more info and giving it to him, in a non-confrontational way.
I think its good for you and DH to sit down and talk about your parenting and what 'rules' you may need in the house, but all family members need to follow them (so that means no yelling or hitting from DH for example).
I would phrase them as things they should do, rather than don't do, as it emphasises the negative.
Some basic ones are
1. Hands, feet and teeth to yourself
2. Put toys away when the game is finished
3. Use please when asking for something and thank you when you receive something.
4. Use you gentle voice and gentle hands when talking to and playing with others.
I remember when I was having a trying time with my little ones and we felt that we needed rules to make sense of the chaos and regain 'control'. After lots of discussion between DH and myself and others, soul searching and reading we decided to ditch the rules, their reinforcement with punishments and rewards and go with more gentle guidance approaches. I can recommend some useful books if people want.
I think a loving family environment where there is unconditional love will be the best plan to yield the behaviour you want from your children.
MummyDaddy
04-04-2010, 17:08
I need help please my home is not a home it is hell. :crying:
To me she was not talking back. was I wrong is that talking back?
When Dh talk's 99.9% he sounds really angry. Would that upset you. or would you just think thats how he talk's?
What would you do if every time you were in the car with your Dh he got really angry and yelled at the other car (even knowing that they wouldn't hear him)
this is not a debate about smacking, the OP asked a question and that was do we consider it to be talking back and what rules we have in place.
Read my post again. I was answering the questions above.
If you didn't read that into my response - then that is your issue.
Feel free to turn it into an argumentative post however by preaching at me about how the thread should be run.
My response again would be that I consider that behaviour to be abusive and a form of corporal punishment.
TO SPELL IT OUT:
YES - that behaviour would upset me and it would make me question if my child should be in that home with that man being subjected to being hit at the drop of a hat.
TO SPELL IT OUT FURTHER:
My house rules are:
NO SMACKING SMALL CHILDREN EVER.
- no hitting or violence including kicking, pushing over or aggression when angry or frustrated
- we say please, thank you and excuse me
- if we are angry, we count to ten then we get down on the child's level and have a little chat
- this goes for my DD as well, we count to ten when we are angry
- we use the 1, 2, 3 method followed by naughty corner
The OP asked several questions in her OP. I answered one specific part of that.
I have now answered the part of that thread that you considered was the only bit meant to be answered.
MummyDaddy
04-04-2010, 17:11
I have to be honest, reading your post about your DH's attitude made me quite sad, because I am the same as him. I react far too quickly...
And possibly just did so again - in this thread by posting an argumentative comment toward me.
That situation doesn't sound to me like she was talking back - and your husband has anger issues that need addressing. Even if he did think she was out of line, it wasn't (in my house, anyway) a smacking offence.
You're probably going to have to do something serious to snap him into line.
My husband (and my 20 year old son) are very firm with the little ones (age 6 and 5) about giving cheek but it's never a smack. A quick reminder or, at worst, a time out.
Read my post again. I was answering the questions above.
And possibly just did so again - in this thread by posting an argumentative comment toward me.
.
:confused: When did I asking about the hitting????
What I asked was
What are you house Rule's?
Do you let your child talk back?
What is classed as a child talking back?
was I wrong is that talking back?
When Dh talk's 99.9% he sounds really angry. Would that upset you. or would you just think thats how he talk's?
What would you do if every time you were in the car with your Dh he got really angry and yelled at the other car (even knowing that they wouldn't hear him)?
MummyDaddy I think you need to move on I was not asking about Dh Hitting her.
So yes Just Add Water is right when she say's
this is not a debate about smacking.......
:wave:
We are going to sit down tonight and talk about acceptable behaviours in our house. DD is only 20 months and DS 12 weeks, but she is starting to test her boundaries.
This morning I put into practice the `1, 2, 3 Magic!' method and it has worked incredibly all day. We have had our first day without a tantrum in ages. She is also much more affectionate and content ... because she has some boundaries that have been helping her feel more secure.
She had boundaries before, but I wasn't enforcing them effectively. Too much talking, too many words - she was just getting confused.
Your kids are older, but it's a good method that is kind, loving and worth having a look into to see if it will help your DH with his temper.
The above would be great for DS 22 months. I need to start to pull him into line.
Thanks
We have 4 kids - almost 10, almost 7, almost 6 & 1... rules in this house are simple:
Respect each other
Listen to each other
Do everything to the best of your ability - as long as you have tried your best then we will help, if you're going to be lazy and can't be bothered then you will get less help.
Don't steal
Don't make someone feel bad on purpose (like taking someone else's toy and laughing because they get upset, we have issues with Miss almost 7 about this one)
Don't hit or kick
If someone is upsetting you ask them politely 3 times to stop or leave before coming to see an adult, dobbing was getting out of control
Don't lie. Ever.
Don't argue, no means no.
In the case of what you mentioned then no, I wouldn't say that is talking back, that is a kid trying their luck a bit more lol it can get frustrating and I have snapped at our kids when they do it a lot, but it's just them being kids.
Jobs: (for 3 older ones obviously, though the 1 year old does help pack up his toys).
Make your bed each morning
Put dirty clothes out morning / night
Shower each night & hang up your towels
Put your clothes away
Tidy up your toys when you're finished / outside toys & bikes as well
Put the dishes away if asked
Keep your room reasonable or be prepared to lose some of your weekend cleaning up a week's worth of mess - that is their choice to make.
We also have other things around the house that we will ask them to help with from time to time but we usually have a cleanup afternoon or morning on the weekend where we all pitch in for an hour or so and it gets it all done.
I have to be honest, reading your post about your DH's attitude made me quite sad, because I am the same as him. I react far too quickly and spend a lot of my time with the kids being angry - and it is such a horrible place to be in life. I spend most days / nights when the kids aren't around in tears because I know I am doing a terrible job parenting them and I try so hard every day. I am on my own a lot as DH travels for work quite a bit, but that is no excuse for it. I am making myself spend more time with the kids doing positive things, as hard as it is for me, but I am hoping that by pretending I'm enjoying them I might start to again.
I hope you find some answers. xx
Thanks Just add water love the rules they will help.
Don't worry I too react far too quickly with some stuff.
It was not so much that DH hit dd and told her off for talking back, it was that I really didn't feel that he need too as I didn't see it as talking back.
We have talked about it. From talking to him he is very old school and see's that as talking back. Where I don't. Back in his day he would have been hit (smacked) for it. He is turning 40 next year.
That is all so why I want the rule's list so that when some thing happen's it is clear what the punishment should be.
All so this is the first he has hit her in about 3/4 months. Over all she is a great kid really does not do much wrong. Most of the time she does need to be told to do some thing 5 or 6 time's. That come's down to her Auditory Processing Disorder. It does drive me up the wall just as I feel it does to Dh.
I need to work out the rule's and get me and DH on the same page.
BabelFish
04-04-2010, 22:14
The above would be great for DS 22 months. I need to start to pull him into line.
Thanks
No worries! :)
Just so you know though, the method is designed for 2 - 12 year olds, so it will work for your older kids, too.
~ElectricPink~
04-04-2010, 22:31
I think rather than setting rules for your child - you really need to discuss with your partner the ways that you both wish to raise your child, make it clear that his current behaviour is not acceptable to you, and agree on some alternative methods on dealing with things.
Good luck
Pulp Fiction
04-04-2010, 23:52
When Dh talk's 99.9% he sounds really angry. Would that upset you. or would you just think thats how he talk's?
My DP is like that too. I'm used to it now, but whevever I am on the phone to someone and DP is in the background on his mobile talking (yelling) to one of his friends, the person I am on the phone to is always like 'Whoa! Who's he fighting with? He sounds REALLY mad!'
In fact, my mum was worried that I was in an abusive relationship just because she used to hear DP talking (yelling) in the background when she was on the phone to me.
The only time I notice it now and get annoyed is when he is yelling exceptionally loudly at the football and it frightens DS. Then DP feels bad because he made DS cry.
Other than that, DS and I are used to it. Its just how he talks. He is in no way an abusive partner or father. Quite the opposite.
I'm not sure about your situation with your DH though, thats just how it is with mine.
MermaidSister
05-04-2010, 00:44
My dad was a lot like this and still is.
He sounds angry most of the time, even when it was not directed at us it made us feel like we were walking on eggshells around him growing up.
If your daughter is punished every time she speaks up, she is likely to become very afraid of her father (or her step father, whatever the relationship is i'm sorry i didn't check that) and will only learn that standing up for herself, having her own opinions etc is unacceptable.
At our place, we don't punish our son for "talking back" in the sense that you have described (the tv scene- we get that every night when it's time for bed!) But we set firm boundaries and if he said something like "not yet" to a request from me i would either negotiate if it doesn't really matter (eg. "Ok, one more ad break and then time for bed") or insist (like if he's already been allowed to stay up later than usual- "No mate, remember we said it would be time for bed after the last ad break. Off you go!" etc).
I don't think hitting was appropriate in that circumstance. If your child wasn't being rude or defiant, she's just procrastinating and it sound like she's being disproportionately punished for it.
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