Prosti tutes on wheels....

[Ffrenchknickers]

http://www.news.com.au/business/miners-buckle-up-to-ride-shag-bus/story-e6frfm1i-1225845036289

WDYT?

[Corlz]

:barf::barf:thats all im gonna say

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

:barf:Vile.

[Lemonhead]

How...convenient :confused:

[Lemonhead]

Its true what they say in the article though, there is ALOT of money to be made there. A friend of the family does exactly this up north where all the miners are and she is making an absolute packet, owns 6 houses around the country.

She said its mainly married men who use her 'services' up north.

[PuppyGuts]

well that scares the hell outta me.

[Ffrenchknickers]

well that scares the hell outta me.

Is your other half a miner? I bet alot of partners of miners will be feeling that way.

It scares me too for lots of reasons.....:( It's terrible.

[RoarsomeMum]

Way to remind the world that men simply "can not control" their urges and must be catered to ASAP!!!!!!! (Masturbation is simply not enough for the red blooded male who needs a woman to use.. and I MEAN Use..)



Makes me feel
:barf::barf::barf::barf:

[emma2938]

Oh that is just awful!!!

Can you imagine if you are a wife of a miner, but your live elsewhere (like most miniung families), The thought that this was going on around your DH would be awful.

Some people can see nothing more thsan $$$$

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

Way to remind the world that men simply "can not control" their urges and must be catered to ASAP!!!!!!! (Masturbation is simply not enough for the red blooded male who needs a woman to use.. and I MEAN Use..)



Makes me feel
:barf::barf::barf::barf:

I agree, another giant step backwards for the human race.

[motherev2two]

He/she would be around it if he was in the city/highly populated town so it should not be an issue if the men do not want the service.

If they are loyal there is nothing to worry about, with hope the supposed call for it is proven to not be needed.

[Seacretsquirrel]

I think they need one............................................... .....................................

With all the wives and girlfriends on board that would be much better!!!!

[Opinionated]

I don't have a problem with it. Prostitution occurs there already. It is just not so regulated and much more dangerous for the women who provide the services.

Regulation has benefits for both sides. The womens safety is much more assured, and regulation requires health checks for workers, usually on a monthly basis. This makes services safer for workers, clients and the unknowing partners of clients.

[RoarsomeMum]

Or Women could stop selling their bodies and Men could stop buying them.. there is also that..

As unlikely as it sounds, I also find it unlikely that the health and safety regs on the "profession" are anywhere near as good as they claim.. IMO, Seeing a prostitute is STILL like gambling with "deli meat" overhandled and not cared for very well at all.

And busing them over is a non issue if there are prostitutes there already really.. Why (other than advertisement for services) travel?

[Opinionated]

Or Women could stop selling their bodies and Men could stop buying them.. there is also that..
Unfortunately, we all know that won't happen. Prostitution has always and will always occur in one form or another.



As unlikely as it sounds, I also find it unlikely that the health and safety regs on the "profession" are anywhere near as good as they claim.. IMO, Seeing a prostitute is STILL like gambling with "deli meat" overhandled and not cared for very well at all. You would be surprised to know just how regulated the legal industry is. Not just the health aspect, but also the financial/ ownership aspects. I find your likening of prostitutes to "deli meat" as very distateful. These are women we are discussing. Women with rights and feelings. Many of the women in the legal industry care for their body and health a great deal more than women not in the business, after all, it is their livlihood.



And busing them over is a non issue if there are prostitutes there already really.. Why (other than advertisement for services) travel? Women already working there are doing so illegally for whatever reason they have. Many would be unlikely to participate in the legal industry. Being a small community, the type of women that would engage in a legal operation would want to avoid the social stigma associated with prostitution and not live where they work.

[motherev2two]

I really like point two Opinionated

[RoarsomeMum]

You would be surprised to know just how regulated the legal industry is. Not just the health aspect, but also the financial/ ownership aspects. I find your likening of prostitutes to "deli meat" as very distateful. These are women we are discussing. Women with rights and feelings. Many of the women in the legal industry care for their body and health a great deal more than women not in the business, after all, it is their livlihood.


No, I was suprised to learn Just how unregulated the industry is (no matter how much they claim on their signs to have "clean meat") and no matter how many Times people state "there is legislation and it is strictly adhered to"

I comfort Women who have found out (only through infertility testing and the discovery of STD's present) that their partners have been using services. and Also hold their hands as the services "now legally mandated" seek legal action only to be told that their partners are liars and cheaters and who can be sure the only service used was ours? and NO we will not provide medical checks on the Woman used for service as we also have a right to protect her privacy.. :hair::hair: The legislation MAY help some working women, possibly.. But the "Unknowing partners" remain unknowing.. Helps them Nil.

The comparison to Deli meat was actually a quote from the legal transcript and was the terminology the OWNER of the Agency Used. I also found it abhorrent language, yet an apt comparison, that he came to all by himself. (In his I TOTALLY respect Women and the services they provide kinda way)

In at least 3 cases the Men had used well known and advertised and "health checked" services for the reason of TTC and protecting their partners.. and caught things (How does that HAPPEN with all of this stringent new legislation and terms and conditions?) and were totally blown off when attempting to seek legal rectification.

If Women CARE about their bodies and heath they protect them.. They simply do.

If Men care about Women, they don't use them, they simply don't.

I want to live in a world where No woman is forced to sell her body due to poverty and where no woman see's her body as a tool to gain money for whatever reason.. It just how I feel.. I am not god, I don't know right from wrong, I know MY right from wrong and this for me is just so so soooooooooo wrong.

[Opinionated]

What state are you from Southern Lights? Also, no matter what some disgusting man said, can we please stop using terms that refer to women as meat?

In Victoria, a prostitute in the legal industry must provide a medical certificate monthly to prove freedom from sti's. Operators of services must collect these certificate and have them on hand if at any time a spot check from the regulatory authority is carried out. Fines are very steep and businesses that have not taken this step are closed.

I would contend that liars and cheats who present with an sti may be more likely to blame a prostitute. It is much easier to claim it was a one off event than a full blown affair, especially if they want to repair their relationship.

Rates of sti's are actually lower amongst legal prostitutes than the wider community. I haven't got the stats, I am at work at the moment, but can get them if you require.

I have no problem with prostitution so long as any person entering the profession does so because they want to. I know women in the job that find it preferable to work in the industry than to other jobs. We all use our bodies or minds as a tool to gain money. If someone chooses sex work and the choice is freely made without necessity or coercion, I don't see the issue.

Many women work in the legal sex industry without ever contracting an sti because they do care about themselves. My girlfriend has worked for 12 years and never had an sti. I myself worked for 5 years from when I first hit legal age and never had an sti, and had follow up testing 6 months after leaving the profession which was clear.

Unfortunately, partnered men who have sex outside their relationship will still find ways to do this. Blaming prostitutes as being disease carrying people and thinking that stopping prostitution will prevent this is short sighted.

[RoarsomeMum]

Unfortunately, partnered men who have sex outside their relationship will still find ways to do this. Blaming prostitutes as being disease carrying people and thinking that stopping prostitution will prevent this is short sighted.

I am From Vic and am well aware of the legislation and how easy it is to dupe.

I am in NO WAY blaming prostitutes for being disease carrying people.. (ALL of us can carry disease, we just don't all claim there is legislation present that makes us safer.)

I Challenge the CLAIM that legal prostitution changes anything at all.. (not challenge the prostitutes, legal or illegal)

Stopping prostitution may stop men as SEEING Women as "pieces of meat".. No more no less.. The disease part was brought up by you (claiming legal prostitution was less likely to spread it and was safer for the "unknowing partner" - Hence my post.) I won't remove the term "meat" as I am not referring to Woman as Meat, I am referring to them selling their bodies as meat.. to be consumed for profit. (which is what prostitution is, no matter what terminology we use)

If "cheating lying men" who have sex outside a relationship are the dregs of society, what are the women having sex with them???????

I want it all to STOP.. I want Selling sex to not be seen as O.K.. No matter HOW much $$$$$$$$ it can make and HOW much demand there is for it..

Disease will exist long after prostitution.. Many a Liberated Woman is happy to have sex because they ENJOY it, not because they want or need money..

We are more than a collection of parts to amuse and satisfy men. I don't EVER want DD to be going to the guidance councilor to discuss future professions and be told, "your cute and have a nice Bod, you could be a prostitute while you study" - that scares me to death.. But even scarier.. not sure you have the potential for further study, or that great a body, but you can still go into prostitution, cause, heck, those fella's will R**t anything:(

I just want the sale of Women and their various parts to freaking End..

(very glad you were were to remain STD Free and So was I..)

[Nowhere]

Its unfortunately an industry that will lkely never die down, Its supply demmand as long as there are people out there wanting to buy then others will sell it.

Personaly I prefer the dea of the official buisiness running the agencys as apose to nasty under ground pimps.

Yes this isnt ideal its is a discrace but its the safest way for the women that are on the game and the clients, there is already high trade in Alice and its mainly from what I understand underground organisations, what better way to flush sort of practice out then go in with a above board organisation.


I dont agree with women or men selling the right to have sex with them but I know its going to happen regardless of the opinion of you or I or anyone else, So I would like to see it be done in the safest way possible.


As for guidelines I know a women that runs an ecort agency ( she is an e stripper) and she runs a tight ship, all her girls are checked every month for diseases, and if anything of concerns happens they are tested imediately and do not work until they have the all clear, all the girls that work for her have personal alarms, that as soon as they touch the alarm goes off in teh security office, the security gards can also here what it going on n the room and at the flick of a switch when need be can see as well. Again not ideal at all but heck better than workng for some undergound agency that treats them lke sh*t.

[RoarsomeMum]

Its unfortunately an industry that will lkely never die down, Its supply demmand as long as there are people out there wanting to buy then others will sell it.


100% agree.. and it never ends.. That's why they sell children.. for the same reason.. Should we just legalize and regulate that to to make it safer?? and just accept that it is "better than it use to be"?

Some things are just Wrong, legislative or not.. and "making it safer" does nothing to "make it right"

I obviously prefer to see something done safely if we can not find it in ourselves as a society to not do it at all.. - does not change the fact I would FAR prefer and will fight for the latter.

(and yes, Just My opinion, only my opinion.. I have the right to that - legislated and everything..)

[motherev2two]

No because kids cannot consent so it is not the same

[Nowhere]

100% agree.. and it never ends.. That's why they sell children.. for the same reason.. Should we just legalize and regulate that to to make it safer?? and just accept that it is "better than it use to be"?

Some things are just Wrong, legislative or not.. and "making it safer" does nothing to "make it right"

I obviously prefer to see something done safely if we can not find it in ourselves as a society to not do it at all.. - does not change the fact I would FAR prefer and will fight for the latter.

(and yes, Just My opinion, only my opinion.. I have the right to that - legislated and everything..)


That s entirely difernt, there is far cry between a women to choose to be a prostitute and child abuse, a HUGE HUGE differnce.

Obvosuly it would be better f prostitution wasnt around at all, but just because I would prefer to see consentng women, work in cleaner safer envoronments than for pimps, by NO WAY makes me agree with chld abuse, I find that dscusting that you would imply such a thing.

I have a dfernt opinon from your on ADULT se workers that doesnt for a second mean or insinuate that i agree with child abuse the two issues are completely difernt, I have never been more insulted on this forum than I am right now.

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

No because kids cannot consent so it is not the same

Many women don't choose it, and even if they did, they don't make that choice in a vacume.

Women are more likely to be dissadvantaged in many ways and prostitution can sometimes seem like the answer.

Not to mention those who have been coerced and drug addicted etc.

Prostitution is the abuse and dehamanisation of women.

[Nowhere]

I obviously prefer to see something done safely if we can not find it in ourselves as a society to not do it at all.. - does not change the fact I would FAR prefer and will fight for the latter.

(and yes, Just My opinion, only my opinion.. I have the right to that - legislated and everything..)


What are you currently doing to fight for it, other than comenting on a forum. ????

If you have something in the works to try and stop it I would suport you 100 percent, but only if it doesnt drive the trade underground. Where there is no protection, discraceful conditions and women literaly beng treated like a peace of meat

[RoarsomeMum]

No because kids cannot consent so it is not the same

Kids can not consent to a LOT of things that have been made legally the responsibility of their parents.. I am concerned about where the "legalising" of sex services will take us.

Kids can and will never be able to consent to a Myriad of things we put them through.. and yet, it's legal..

The law does not make things right.

[Mathermy]

Bloody foul.:barf:

[Nowhere]

Many women don't choose it, and even if they did, they don't make that choice in a vacume.

Women are more likely to be dissadvantaged in many ways and prostitution can sometimes seem like the answer.

Not to mention those who have been coerced and drug addicted etc.

Prostitution is the abuse and dehamanisation of women.


I do agree, but out of the two options of working for an undergroung organisation being passed around to other wealers and dealers and abused and raped. Or workng for legit buisines that is under guidelines run by other women, and geting health checks etc which one is the safer opton for these women that are going to do it anyway.

I dont agree with prostitution when I was working as a dancer there is a HUGE divide in teh industry between the prostitutes and the dancers, as most or neally all of the dancers dont agree with it at all. But at the same time I get that its hapening we need to change the way women think about them selfs and the industry not just push it underground so that once they are in there is no way out.

[RoarsomeMum]

What are you currently doing to fight for it, other than comenting on a forum. ????

If you have something in the works to try and stop it I would suport you 100 percent, but only if it doesnt drive the trade underground. Where there is no protection, discraceful conditions and women literaly beng treated like a peace of meat


I never want Women to be treated like meat or to be for sale.

We are currently challenging the legislation and it's merit in our area via Government avenues

We are also working closely with our local PM and have as of March 1st, heavily participated in pressuring and succeeding in the closure of the one and only Brothel in our area for 100K's.

We offered support to the Women who would be "out of a job" due to closure, though 8-10 chose to continue their profession elsewhere

I sign every petition that I can asking for women to be treated with respect and not be put in a position to sell their wears..

The only way for the industry to be pushed "underground" IMO is for the support of the degradation of women to continue. I fight everyday of my life (including the way we raise DD) against that.

I am doing only a tiny fraction of what I *could* do though MM.. and thanks for reminding me of that.. Will certainly look for more to do to help stop the sale of Women.

[motherev2two]

It will never be legal so it is a non issue. There is a difference of opinion on what should and should not be legal but IF it was really unsafe for children(eg sex trade, circ, other hot topics of debate) it would not be legal in Australia. No parent has the right to sell their kids in any form.

They do not let minors(correct me if I am wrong) from entering legal prostitution generally the women/men choose to be there. There is a clientele there and people WILLING to provide the service and your or my opinion does not change that fact.

Brothels are legal well they are where I am as there is one(maybe two). It is more a moral issue than anything else those brothels are cleaner than most single peoples houses.

It is good you are fighting for a cause but really it is not up to you to dictate how others should live if abiding by the law and to make it illegal would be worse than it is now..

I know people who love and hate the work they have done in the trade it is not upto me to judge their choices.The poeple I know have come from varied backgrounds not all druggies/abused/poor backgrounds like so many think... yes some do but not all.

[Nowhere]

See some mght see that as a good thing closeng that brothel but the only people see that as a good thng for is the underground scum in that city as they rub there hands together as you shut those doors and send them girls into there groty little organisation, 8 of 10, so you may save 2 out of each then and thats great for them 2.

I understand your reasons for this and its great that you are doing somethng to help, its not going anywhere near to f the problem ts just pushing to where you or I dont have to see it.

[RoarsomeMum]

See some mght see that as a good thing closeng that brothel but the only people see that as a good thng for is the underground scum in that city as they rub there hands together as you shut those doors and send them girls into there groty little organisation, 8 of 10, so you may save 2 out of each then and thats great for them 2.

I understand your reasons for this and its great that you are doing somethng to help, its not going anywhere near to f the problem ts just pushing to where you or I dont have to see it.

They are not the only people who see it as a "good thing" and if we had shut it with no thought to it's employees I would agree with you. But we did not.

We are a bunch of people.. We do not expect to change the world.. we share and hope the world helps us to change itself.. and it does.. In little ways.. Like being able to T up work with a future and free education for the 2 people who decided to take it up (we had organized 10 placements but People have a right to choose and indeed the Jobs we secured were not as high paying as the one they had)

If you change one person, they change one, and they change one, It ripples...

I cant afford to give up trying just because I can not "go anywhere NEAR fixing the problem" Otherwise I would quit everything.

I owe it to myself and to a precious little Girl who may very well be easy to coheres and abuse to make sure the message is and ALWAYS is we have worth above and beyond our bodies and they are NOT FOR SALE...... I Owe it to my family to keep on trying.. anyway I can.

I am, like I said before, not God.. I cant make this all "go away" I cant make the world see women as human beings who are not for sale.. I can't do that Alone.. But together.. we can make a pretty good dent IMO.. (its just getting us all together..)

[Ffrenchknickers]

we have worth above and beyond our bodies and they are NOT FOR SALE...... \

:yelclap::yelclap:

I will never, ever, ever support the sex industry.

[Nowhere]

fair enough, Just difernce of opinion :shakehands:

[motherev2two]

Are you fighting to stop the "sale" of men in the industry too

[RoarsomeMum]

fair enough, Just difernce of opinion :shakehands:

:yes::shakehands:

[Nowhere]

\

:yelclap::yelclap:

I will never, ever, ever support the sex industry.

See another way to look at makeing it ilegal is that you are intern suportng organsed crime and sendng the women that are working in brothels to line there pocket, just because then you or wont see it any more it wont mean its not a problem.

I gues for me, I cant see things as black and white, I caan also see the bad side to closeing brothels, maybe cause I have seen with my own eyes how things work in the real world and the underworld.

[RoarsomeMum]

Are you fighting to stop the "sale" of men in the industry too

I am fighting to stop the "sex industry" whether the workers be male or female, Bodies are not for sale.. (It's just that the majority of work in our area is performed by Women..) and the Bus tour to the mines showed no male prostitutes either.. (so figured it was not on topic really)

But yes, Men and Women are more than the sum of their Sexual parts and what they can get $$ for them.

[bumMum]

I really do not care.


but then I don't have an issue with a regulated sex industry. I have a much bigger problem with the underground sex industry that involves under age boys and girls.

I don't have a problem with safe and legal prostitution.

[Nowhere]

I really do not care.


but then I don't have an issue with a regulated sex industry. I have a much bigger problem with the underground sex industry that involves under age boys and girls.

I don't have a problem with safe and legal prostitution.


:) Some one who agrees with me on BH about this :D

[bumMum]

:) Some one who agrees with me on BH about this :D

absolutely. as the friend of both guys and gals who have worked as hookers and strippers.. to me, it's a non issue.. unless it is an issue for them.
I'll never be convinced otherwise :p

[Seacretsquirrel]

I agree with you too Mikenzee's mum :yes:

[Ffrenchknickers]

See another way to look at makeing it ilegal is that you are intern suportng organsed crime and sendng the women that are working in brothels to line there pocket, just because then you or wont see it any more it wont mean its not a problem.

I gues for me, I cant see things as black and white, I caan also see the bad side to closeing brothels, maybe cause I have seen with my own eyes how things work in the real world and the underworld.

I understand all of this, but I will never, ever support something that completely disagrees with my beliefs. :no: The underworld will exist anyway and I believe we should be trying to help end this and rescue/support victims. I have seen/had experience with all of this as well, we just come to a different conclusion I guess.

[Nowhere]

I understand all of this, but I will never, ever support something that completely disagrees with my beliefs. :no: The underworld will exist anyway and I believe we should be trying to help end this and rescue/support victims. I have seen/had experience with all of this as well, we just come to a different conclusion I guess.


yerp the underworld will always go on agree, but closeing brothels down wil send all the girls down with it, into the hands of monsters, That is something I could never ever suport, If an industry with consenting adults is either going to be run with regulations and safety net there or underground run by wealers and dealers and gansters then I would pick that first one anyday.

[OJandMe]

Great. Let's just give the ladies with partners that work away one more thing to worry about.

I understand there would be a niche market there.. and she'll probably rake it in (the owner)... but seriously.

I for one know that my lil sister whose partner works in the mines would just spend the whole month he's away stressing.

[Benji]

Great. Let's just give the ladies with partners that work away one more thing to worry about.

I understand there would be a niche market there.. and she'll probably rake it in (the owner)... but seriously.

I for one know that my lil sister whose partner works in the mines would just spend the whole month he's away stressing.

:iagree:

We can talk about legalities until the cows come home, but what about empathy for those who are the innocent victims in this - the wives.

[Phyllis Stein]

See another way to look at makeing it ilegal is that you are intern suportng organsed crime and sendng the women that are working in brothels to line there pocket, just because then you or wont see it any more it wont mean its not a problem.

I gues for me, I cant see things as black and white, I caan also see the bad side to closeing brothels, maybe cause I have seen with my own eyes how things work in the real world and the underworld.

MM (and your cronies :p), I think you're looking at the issue at the (rather limited) level of individuals. It's easy to see an individual as making choices for her own individual reasons, isolated from broader factors that are often general and hard to pin down. However, I think it's more valid to look at this particular issue from a systemic point of view. The problem with looking at it from an individual perspective is that it fails to show patterns that may indicate something else is going on.

While I acknowledge that individuals within our system/ society have a certain degree of power in defining their own experiences and motivations, I don't think broader factors can be dismissed. Things like the statistics that show how many women in prostitution come from abusive/ disadvantaged backgrounds, the rates of PTSD among current and ex-prostitutes, the fact that prostitution is highly gendered (i.e. we see prostitution as 'women's work', 'johns' are always men), that it's such a psychologically and physically fraught 'occupation' with high levels of on the job violence and coercion, etc.

If it's about harm minimisation, then I might support it, but only if it worked. Unfortunately, there is evidence to show that it simply doesn't. Direct evidence shows that organised crime is strongly connected with the legal sex industry in Australia, for instance. I'm currently looking to find some links to post that illustrate this and other factors.

Regardless of the direct effects of legalisation, it has some indirect effects, also. The primary concern for me is that prostitution normalises women's bodies as commodities, as 'things' that can be bought or sold like any other 'object', the value of which is decided purely by the market with no consideration of any intrinsic value of the person. I think it is this attitude that enables the trafficking of children and women as sex slaves, for instance and I think it is a factor in forming the mentality that enables rape to occur. I don't think we can just dismiss these indirect effects on all women in our society, by focusing only on the direct effects on the individual women in the industry.

BBL with links.

[Nowhere]

:iagree:

We can talk about legalities until the cows come home, but what about empathy for those who are the innocent victims in this - the wives.


Dh is going back up to the mines, I know that there will always be women that turn tricks up there, if he chooses to sleep wth them wil be the same consquences as hm choosing to wth a girl at the local bar up there.

To me that doesnt change weather its a legit buisiness or not, there are already hookers in these towns, its not lke there isnt any access to women as it is, If he cant keep it in his pants then he wil play away weather paying for it or not

[lulu 2]

I think they can keep these sort of things well away from the remote mine sites ,the men and women get paid well to go out there and work in remote places and go without a few luxurys as far as I am concerned they can wait til they get back to the city to do that stuff. The brothel thats involved in this story has dozens of women who work for them who are drunks and drug addicts and some are very unhappy with their lives ,not all of them but some. Quite a few have stds and this is with the regular checks and all they don't mean squat. This company also employs male prostitues aswell and they share many of the same problems that the women do. So back to the OP ppl go to mines to work and get paid good money to do so, its bad enough they have booze for them to blow their money on without this lot coming in.
Just another side note ,these brothels make a habit of lending the workers money in advance up to thousands of dollars just so they have to work it off, really regulated hey!

[Benji]

How do they ensure that STDs are not passed on, when some don't show up in STD testing for months afterwards? Do they stop having sex for 3 months at a time?

I'm just asking because my SIL was pricked with a needle at work and although it was incredibly unlikely that she would've caught something, she had to have protected sex etc for 6 months afterwards when she was in the clear.

[Nowhere]

MM (and your cronies :p), I think you're looking at the issue at the (rather limited) level of individuals. It's easy to see an individual as making choices for her own individual reasons, isolated from broader factors that are often general and hard to pin down. However, I think it's more valid to look at this particular issue from a systemic point of view. The problem with looking at it from an individual perspective is that it fails to show patterns that may indicate something else is going on.

While I acknowledge that individuals within our system/ society have a certain degree of power in defining their own experiences and motivations, I don't think broader factors can be dismissed. Things like the statistics that show how many women in prostitution come from abusive/ disadvantaged backgrounds, the rates of PTSD among current and ex-prostitutes, the fact that prostitution is highly gendered (i.e. we see prostitution as 'women's work', 'johns' are always men), that it's such a psychologically and physically fraught 'occupation' with high levels of on the job violence and coercion, etc.

If it's about harm minimisation, then I might support it, but only if it worked. Unfortunately, there is evidence to show that it simply doesn't. Direct evidence shows that organised crime is strongly connected with the legal sex industry in Australia, for instance. I'm currently looking to find some links to post that illustrate this and other factors.

Regardless of the direct effects of legalisation, it has some indirect effects, also. The primary concern for me is that prostitution normalises women's bodies as commodities, as 'things' that can be bought or sold like any other 'object', the value of which is decided purely by the market with no consideration of any intrinsic value of the person. I think it is this attitude that enables the trafficking of children and women as sex slaves, for instance and I think it is a factor in forming the mentality that enables rape to occur. I don't think we can just dismiss these indirect effects on all women in our society, by focusing only on the direct effects on the individual women in the industry.

BBL with links.

You can show me lnks tll the cows come home, You wont budge me on this one, As SSP knows from past discusons on this.

I know that there is organsed crme involved in the sex industry, be it in stip clubsm or brothes etc, but they dont completely run the whole game they are stil governed by laws, and there is choice as to weather or not you work for them, If it is all pushed underground that wil be the only option. At the moment there is a balance you take away the legtamit side you are leved with a very uneven keal.

The sex industry has been some what legal for a very very long time, and ts stil not seen as the done thing it stil is and always wll be taboo something that all girls know they shouldnt do, its not like if we keep them open it wil become a career option layed out at school, lke you can become a Dr, a nurse, a lawyer a prison gaurd a stripper or a hooker, It will never be seen as a normal career move.

LOl MM and her crownies I wonder how many :iagree::iagree::iagree: you wil cop for your post, and how many couldnt of said it better. Ill bet more than me

:shakehands: as always in discussing these sort of topics, nothing personal just aa difernce of opinion

[Nowhere]

How do they ensure that STDs are not passed on, when some don't show up in STD testing for months afterwards? Do they stop having sex for 3 months at a time?

I'm just asking because my SIL was pricked with a needle at work and although it was incredibly unlikely that she would've caught something, she had to have protected sex etc for 6 months afterwards when she was in the clear.


I know at the place my friend owns, if there are any mishaps and any of the girls have been put in a positon of risk yes they are not permited back until they have the all clear.

[Benji]

Dh is going back up to the mines, I know that there will always be women that turn tricks up there, if he chooses to sleep wth them wil be the same consquences as hm choosing to wth a girl at the local bar up there.

To me that doesnt change weather its a legit buisiness or not, there are already hookers in these towns, its not lke there isnt any access to women as it is, If he cant keep it in his pants then he wil play away weather paying for it or not

I'm glad you have a good DH :) I truly mean that.

I'm talking more about other women, not myself. My DP is like yours, I think he would be terribly uncomfortable and running for the hills if he was ever approached by a prostitute. I'm thinking of other women out there :)

I think buses like this, driving women into towns purely for sex :barf: is actually REINFORCING the idea that some men "can't" keep it in their pants. Their willies won't shribble up and die if they're not delivered prostitutes on a regular basis.

[Benji]

I know at the place my friend owns, if there are any mishaps and any of the girls have been put in a positon of risk yes they are not permited back until they have the all clear.

Interesting, thanks for that!

[Nowhere]

I'm glad you have a good DH :) I truly mean that.

I'm talking more about other women, not myself. My DP is like yours, I think he would be terribly uncomfortable and running for the hills if he was ever approached by a prostitute. I'm thinking of other women out there :)

I think buses like this, driving women into towns purely for sex :barf: is actually REINFORCING the idea that some men "can't" keep it in their pants. Their willies won't shribble up and die if they're not delivered prostitutes on a regular basis.


but wont men like that find it anyway, with the females already up there.

oh and forgot to add, no dont nesesarly have a great husband lol that just not somethng that it high up pn my list of wories about him, if he find it else wherre he is welcome to it lol

[Benji]

but wont men like that find it anyway, with the females already up there.

They'll have to try harder. Not likely they will get as lucky (not to mention spend their family's money) with women who aren't prostitutes.

[Nowhere]

They'll have to try harder. Not likely they will get as lucky (not to mention spend their family's money) with women who aren't prostitutes.


But there are already hookers up there itts not like alce springs has never seen a hooker just not one run this way KWIM, there are street workers in places lke that already KWIM

[Benji]

Then they don't need more!

And :hugs: sorry about your DH.

[Phyllis Stein]

You can show me lnks tll the cows come home, You wont budge me on this one, As SSP knows from past discusons on this.
I'm an eternal optimist. :D



If it is all pushed underground that wil be the only option. At the moment there is a balance you take away the legtamit side you are leved with a very uneven keal.
I see your point, however I like to hope there's a third option - decriminalise prostitution but criminalise the procuring of prostitution.



LOl MM and her crownies I wonder how many :iagree:you wil cop for your post, and how many couldnt of said it better. Ill bet more than me
Still waiting. *taps foot impatiently* :laughing:



:shakehands: as always in discussing these sort of topics, nothing personal just aa difernce of opinion

S'all good. :)

[1+1=5]

i think its horrible and big step backwards when it comes to respect for women.

[Nowhere]

[QUOTE=Phyllis Stein;4619043]I'm an eternal optimist. :D

Where are your bloody links then, you know im a glutten for punishment lol


I see your point, however I like to hope there's a third option - decriminalise prostitution but criminalise the procuring of prostitution.

I agree that would be the ideal solution if the people running the underworld was actualy scarred or bothered by the law, until they are I dont see that working to stop it, lke you said your the eternal optmst, Maybe have so much of a shady past that im to much of a realist.


Still waiting. *taps foot impatiently* :laughing:

They will come, they always do dont wory your self.

[Alexander Beetle]

MM I agree with you %100 on this. I dont have an issue with prositution at all as long as it is regulated and as people have said, the women are there by choice. I do feel sorry for the wives up there, but if they are going to cheat they are going to cheat, and if you are worried about your DH going to prostitutes then I would reexamine my relationship actually. Plus I am sure there are plenty of single men up there. Sometimes when people go to prositutes its not just about sex. When of my best male friends was talking to me about it just last night actually. He is single and has trouble picking up women and he said sometimes he just wants comfort and something to make him feel less lonely for a while. I dont find it :barf:at all. I actually found it quite sad what he was saying.

[Phyllis Stein]

This is just one excerpt from a report into legalised prostitution.

From here (http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/lg/inquiries/ptz/lg04-ptz-res-03.htm#P155_16211).



The connections between organised crime and the sex industry have not diminished. Country reports from Australia and the Netherlands highlight that legalisation has, in some respects, strengthened links.
...
Legalisation encourages the growth of the sex industry. There has been a significant increase in the number of brothels in Victoria, Australia, since legalisation, the number of legitimate brothels grew from 40 in 1989 to 94 in 1999 (Raymond 2002).
...
In New South Wales, brothels were decriminalized in 1995. In 1999, the numbers of brothels in Sydney had increased exponentially to 400-500. The vast majority have no licence to operate. To end endemic police corruption, control of illegal prostitution was taken out of the hands of the police and placed in the hands of local councils and planning regulators. The council has neither the money nor the personnel to put investigators into brothels to flush out and prosecute illegal operators.

Legalisation of brothels places a considerable administrative burden on local government...
...
Although it is a legal requirement that local authority inspectors regularly monitor brothels, evidence suggests that this does not always happen.

The inherent problem in the regimes examined is that only one sector is legalised, and as it expands, so does the illegal: both illegal brothels and street prostitution. Thus, legalisation of prostitution does not remove the street market, or the dangers associated with it.
...
The authors of the Netherlands report point out: "Because of the more stringent police-control the new regulations also resulted in the relocation of activities within the prostitution sector: criminal forms of prostitution moved to places where there are fewer or less stringent checks."
...
A report by the Platform Organisations Shelter for Prostitutes (POOP), due to be presented to Parliament on the 2nd December 2003, concludes that three quarters of prostitutes in the Netherlands wish to attend exit programmes to enable them to leave. The report is a response to an evaluation by the Scientific Research and Documentation Center (WODC) on the lifting of the brothel ban in October 2000, which claims that in the main, there have been few problems since the new laws. However, POOP argue that illegality and coercion still dominate the industry (Reformatorisch Dagblad, 2003).
...
Legalisation is a `pull factor' for traffickers. Project Respect estimates, "at least seven licensed brothels in Victoria have used trafficked women in the last year". An Australian Institute of Criminology study estimated that Australian brothels earned $1 million a week from illegal prostitution. Mary Sullivan and Sheila Jeffreys point out that, "Legalisation was intended to eliminate organised crime from the sex industry. In fact the reverse has happened. Legalisation has brought with it an explosion in the trafficking of women into prostitution by organised crime. Convicted criminals, fronted by supposedly more reputable people, remain in the business" (2000, p 12). In Victoria estimates from the police and the legal brothel industry put the number of illegal brothels at 400, four times more than the legal ones (Murphy 2002).
...
One of the most significant limitations of legalisation in the two countries examined is that it excludes street prostitution. In this sense, these regimes further marginalise the most vulnerable and exploited women, who certainly do not benefit from this approach. It serves as further legitimisation of targeted `crackdowns', which criminalise them, and for many, result in deportation.
...
Furthermore, legalisation has not reduced street prostitution. There has been a significant increase in street prostitution in Victoria, especially in St Kilda, along with increased levels of rape and violence.

[Nowhere]

This is just one excerpt from a report into legalised prostitution.

From here (http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/committees/lg/inquiries/ptz/lg04-ptz-res-03.htm#P155_16211).


Call me crazy but that stil doesnt change my thoughts on it at all, Sory. If you go ahead and close everone of these brothels down I stil beleve you are lneng the pockets of wealers and dealers in the underground, they are not sudenly going to go ohhh its ilegal now I wil stop espeicaly when you have the underground heavy hitters telling them how good it will be talking up, tellng them the money they wil make the life style they wil have, glamming it up into somethng we all know is not what It will be like, I know men like this that are just waiting for this to happen as they know they will cash in big style as right now the women in the industry have other options as to who to work for take them options away and thesepeople hold all the cards.

[Pulp Fiction]

In Victoria, a prostitute in the legal industry must provide a medical certificate monthly to prove freedom from sti's. Operators of services must collect these certificate and have them on hand if at any time a spot check from the regulatory authority is carried out. Fines are very steep and businesses that have not taken this step are closed.


Rates of sti's are actually lower amongst legal prostitutes than the wider community. I haven't got the stats, I am at work at the moment, but can get them if you require.

This is true. My ex-flatmate was a receptionist at an escort agency in Melbourne and I have many friends who work as escorts so I happen to know for a fact that they are very strict with medical certificates.. Also, I think many of you who have never known/been friends with a sex worker have a pretty skewed view on the whole thing. Most of my escort friends are really intelligent (2 of them are also at uni studying law) and they DO NOT see what they do as degrading or abusing themselves. One of the girls at my friends agency was actually working as a legal secretary or something like that, and started escorting instead because of the better pay. I think its sad that some of you are judging people you don't even know based on a preconceived stereotype.

[Ffrenchknickers]

I think its sad that some of you are judging people you don't even know based on a preconceived stereotype.

I'm not judging anyone based on a preconceived stereotype :no: I will simply never accept that sex is a commodity, nor anyone's body. I will never accept that men 'need' prostitutes because they can't
keep it in their pants.'

[Opinionated]

Thank you Miss Sixx.:iagree:

I will agree that when I entered the industry, I was at a bad place in my life. I didn't feel I had many choices. However, I was lucky in that I decided if I was going to do it, it would be at the best place I could find. The industry was great for me. I developed a sense of self esteem, something I had never had before. I pulled myself out of my bad situation and got my life on track. I was able to get into uni, and afford to study and live at the same time. I had the opposite experience to what many expect and I have learned skills that are very transferable to my career in health care. I am a much better person for working in that job. I concede that this is not the case for everyone, I have seen women spiral into abuse and addiction, but equally I have seen women like me that have gone on to be successful in most if not all areas of their life.

There is good and bad in every industry and it is the bad that overshadow the good. You can say that because of what I did, I was not respected and treated like a commodity, but this is mostly untrue. I was treated with dignity and respect by the vast majority of clients I dealt with and by the management of the establishment. They saw me as the person I am, intelligent, funny and compassionate. To this day I am in touch with some of them, even though my life has moved on. I find that the people that most often see me as disrespected or abused are most often women who know nothing more of what I have done than what they have read or seen in a movie. There is two sides to every coin.

[Pulp Fiction]

I'm not judging anyone based on a preconceived stereotype :no: I will simply never accept that sex is a commodity, nor anyone's body. Thats ok. You don't have to accept it. But the point is thats its legal, and some people do choose to make their living that way and frankly I can't see how thats any of anyone else's business. My friends who work probably couldn't give two hoots whether you personally accept their choice of occupation or not.

[Ffrenchknickers]

Thats ok. You don't have to accept it. But the point is thats its legal, and some people do choose to make their living that way and frankly I can't see how thats any of anyone else's business. My friends who work probably couldn't give two hoots whether you personally accept their choice of occupation or not.

...and I don't expect them to give two hoots :confused: I am expressing my opinion because that was what the OP ;) asked. It isn't about not liking the person or judging them, I will just always think it is terribly sad that this industry exists.

[Pulp Fiction]

...and I don't expect them to give two hoots :confused: I am expressing my opinion because that was what the OP ;) asked. It isn't about not liking the person or judging them, I will just always think it is terribly sad that this industry exists.
Lol. You're right Frenchstar. The thread went on for so long and I was so busy getting indignant that I forgot that IS what the OP was asking. My apologies. :)

[Ffrenchknickers]

You're right Frenchstar. The thread went on for so long and I was so busy getting indignant that I forgot that IS what the OP was asking. My apologies. :)

:kiss:

[Nowhere]

Thank you Miss Sixx.:iagree:

I will agree that when I entered the industry, I was at a bad place in my life. I didn't feel I had many choices. However, I was lucky in that I decided if I was going to do it, it would be at the best place I could find. The industry was great for me. I developed a sense of self esteem, something I had never had before. I pulled myself out of my bad situation and got my life on track. I was able to get into uni, and afford to study and live at the same time. I had the opposite experience to what many expect and I have learned skills that are very transferable to my career in health care. I am a much better person for working in that job. I concede that this is not the case for everyone, I have seen women spiral into abuse and addiction, but equally I have seen women like me that have gone on to be successful in most if not all areas of their life.

There is good and bad in every industry and it is the bad that overshadow the good. You can say that because of what I did, I was not respected and treated like a commodity, but this is mostly untrue. I was treated with dignity and respect by the vast majority of clients I dealt with and by the management of the establishment. They saw me as the person I am, intelligent, funny and compassionate. To this day I am in touch with some of them, even though my life has moved on. I find that the people that most often see me as disrespected or abused are most often women who know nothing more of what I have done than what they have read or seen in a movie. There is two sides to every coin.



So true, I was in a difernt part of the industry to your self, I was an exotic dancer, but had the same sort of experience in terms of how I was treated as your did. It was far from how it is made out to be here on the hub.

The tme i was workng at the club I met some of the most awesome women ever, sure some had come from hard times some stl going through, some come out the other end and carried on at the club, Some rich girls who was trying to stick it up daddy for cutting of there funds, some just wanting to make it on there own, some mums, some putting them selfs through uni, all in all a group of great girls, sure like any industry it has its bad eggs, but beleve me when I say they are flushed out of the club prety dam quickly. The girls I worked with was great we looked out for each other, the bouncers looked out for us, and the owners of our club was awesome, as was the manager. If any of the punters crossed the lne they was delt with.

Most of my old group are out of it now, some are stil there and still loving the money, some are mums, couple of lawyers, school teacher, one is a Dr, Sure some got into the drugs bad or was already into it when I met them and there lives are stil the same, but heck no more than girls I worked in the salon with.


Women that work in teh industry are not all weak little girls wanting to be saved, many many are there by choice.

Again not saying its an ideal job that we should promote for our kids but also not the way some make it out, Push the industry underground and it will turn into the sh*t fght that you all make it out to be.

[Opinionated]

I started out in exotic dancing MM;) The divide is not as big as you think. When I crossed over I found many people I worked with had already secretly made the switch too.

[Nowhere]

I started out in exotic dancing MM;) The divide is not as big as you think until you cross over and find out many people you work with are already there.


Yes found that when My girlfriend started her agency, but on the servce it was very diveded. a few of our dancers worked there as well.

[Alexander Beetle]

I will never accept that men 'need' prostitutes because they can't
keep it in their pants.'
Can I just say that men use prostitutes for many reasons and its not always because they cant 'keep it in their pants'. Sometimes its for comfort, for human contact, sometimes if people are disabled they go to them for release. Its not always revolting men being unable to go a night without a root.

[Ffrenchknickers]

Can I just say that men use prostitutes for many reasons and its not always because they cant 'keep it in their pants'. Sometimes its for comfort, for human contact, sometimes if people are disabled they go to them for release. Its not always revolting men being unable to go a night without a root.

I don't think it is 'revolting' men at all :no: The article implied that men 'need' this due to their desires and that is what I was commenting on.....it paints a bad image of me, amongst other things.

I still think it is sad, even for your abovementioned reasons.

[Opinionated]

...and sometimes there is no sex or even nudity involved. Sometimes, they just want someone to talk to and listen to them, that won't walk away. There is a lot of very lonely people in this world. I don't find it sad that people turn to prostitution for these reasons, I find it sad that despite trying, some people can't find relief from lonliness.

[Ffrenchknickers]

I find it sad that despite trying, some people can't find relief from lonliness

I think we can all agree on that one.

[Alexander Beetle]

I think we can all agree on that one.
yes absolutley:shakehands:
Last night when my friend was telling me how lonely he is and how sometimes he doesnt even sleep with them he just holds them it nearly broke my heart:(

[Pulp Fiction]

Its definately not always about sex. One of my friends clients is this elderly eccentric man (hes 92) who just sits her down in the chair opposite him and tells her these long convoluted stories til 3am. He has been seeing her for years. He books her for 6 hours at a time. Apparently he sees a couple of other girls too. She said the hardest part about the booking is staying awake! He's quite sharp though and sets little traps in the conversation so he can make sure she is paying attention. Crafty old thing! :D

[Pulp Fiction]

...and I don't expect them to give two hoots :confused: I am expressing my opinion because that was what the OP ;) asked. It isn't about not liking the person or judging them, I will just always think it is terribly sad that this industry exists.
Aaaah....I just noticed just then that you ARE the OP Ffrenchstar. Is THAT why you put a winky face in this comment? I get it now. Sorry, I'm a bit slow tonight. Well now I feel doubly silly for telling you its no one's business when the whole point of you starting the thread was to ask opinions.. :p Sorry.

[Mummaholic]

I think the idea of this mobile brothel of sorts is further commodification of women and sex and I do not like it.

I understand there is a myriad of reasons and justifications people have for being a part of the sex industry but I do feel it is perpetuating this commodification and subjegation.

I do not judge individuals that are in the industry personally, but the industry has a lot to answer for really.

[The Fox]

Why are there so man responses about the poor wives of these miners what about them, umm im sorry but if your in a relationship were you have to worry about whether or not your husband or partner is going to sleep with a prostitute or anyone else for that matter then that has to do with their own relationship and there is obviously underlining issues there, there is prostitutes here plenty of them and i dont care, even if my DF was in the mines or working away anywhere for that matter i definitely wouldnt be threatened by it,
its not like these men are being forced to use their services they have a choice here

[motherev2two]

I agree if the miners do not use it then the service will not be needed. The protsi is not to blame it is the man(partnered) for using the service they have the choice to not use it.

[Ffrenchknickers]

Aaaah....I just noticed just then that you ARE the OP Ffrenchstar. Is THAT why you put a winky face in this comment? I get it now. Sorry, I'm a bit slow tonight. Well now I feel doubly silly for telling you its no one's business when the whole point of you starting the thread was to ask opinions.. :p Sorry.

Lol....don't worry about it babe :kiss::kiss::goodvibes:

[Maisymouse]

I don't have a problem with it. Prostitution occurs there already. It is just not so regulated and much more dangerous for the women who provide the services.

Regulation has benefits for both sides. The womens safety is much more assured, and regulation requires health checks for workers, usually on a monthly basis. This makes services safer for workers, clients and the unknowing partners of clients.


I have to agree.

[PuppyGuts]

Why are there so man responses about the poor wives of these miners what about them, umm im sorry but if your in a relationship were you have to worry about whether or not your husband or partner is going to sleep with a prostitute or anyone else for that matter then that has to do with their own relationship and there is obviously underlining issues there, there is prostitutes here plenty of them and i dont care, even if my DF was in the mines or working away anywhere for that matter i definitely wouldnt be threatened by it,
its not like these men are being forced to use their services they have a choice here


no they are not forced to use them-but its being delivered right to them, so i can see how mining wives can feel a bit uneasy about it, and when your away from your wife for 4 weeks at a time and your horny as hell and well, noone would know...........i trust my husband completly but i would still feel yuk knowing he will be talking to men about their experiences and seeing a big sex bus on site. it would be right in front of him and all around him.

[Boobycino]

i giggled at the drilling comment, but, ermm, yeah. not cool. :no: bit grotty really.