*semi spin off* why do you and why do you not vaccinate

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

(ok im sort of getting this from another thread going on about vaccinating)

like most things on BH i know its a touchy subject and most of us have an opinion but lets try to keep it semi friendly , i am only looking for personal opinions and reasons .NOT why you think the PP is wrong ,
:):):)YOUR OPINION ONLY :):):)


so why do you vaccinate ?
was it because most ppl do so you just assumed it was the right thing to do ?
have you researched ?
ect ect


why do you not vaccinate ?
same reasons ?

i am a fence sitter and when i have my own kids want all the information on what i am doing before i do it

[Chunkydunks]

Because I believe that the benefits far outweigh the risk for my child.

[Tegan15]

dd has had her 2 and 4 month vaxxes although I felt uncomfortable about them. It wasn't till after those that I told dh I wanted both of us to do some research into what we were actually putting into her little body, we are still researching it now. To be honest we haven't gotten very far and have only looked at whooping cough which she will not be having any further. I wish we hadn't vaxed dd at this stage.

[scrappydi]

what about people who don't have a choice whether to vaccinate or not???

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

dd has had her 2 and 4 month vaxxes although I felt uncomfortable about them. It wasn't till after those that I told dh I wanted both of us to do some research into what we were actually putting into her little body, we are still researching it now. To be honest we haven't gotten very far and have only looked at whooping cough which she will not be having any further. I wish we hadn't vaxed dd at this stage.


why did you decide against whooping cough vax ?

[Chunkydunks]

i will say you're not going to get very accurate poll results because of your last option. Yes there are people who think they're compulsory and there are those that vax without research, but referring to them as "pack animals".....you won't get many choosing that option.

[MimiGrace]

i will selectively vax.

I'm still doing research (and will continue to do so), but i'm going to admit that my gut instinct says 'no'.

I grew up in a non-vaxxing household, but i did higher level biology at high school and was utterly convinced that vaxxing was a 'must have', until i started considering why my mother hadn't gotten me done.
And based on my family history, i can't see me vaxxing.

however, i may change my mind depending on the family history of the father. - in which case i will selectively vax, and i will probably still delay them.

But i do consider myself pro-vax :thumbsup:

[bada]

i will say you're not going to get very accurate poll results because of your last option. Yes there are people who think they're compulsory and there are those that vax without research, but referring to them as "pack animals".....you won't get many choosing that option.:yes: And then there are those that selectively vax.

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

what about people who don't have a choice whether to vaccinate or not???

:confused::confused::confused::confused: who does not have a choice ??


i will say you're not going to get very accurate poll results because of your last option. Yes there are people who think they're compulsory and there are those that vax without research, but referring to them as "pack animals".....you won't get many choosing that option.


lol, true , i wasnt insulting , id be happy to call myself a pack animal on many things, what would you of said then

[Tegan15]

the research and stats I've looked at to me translate that the vax is not effective. I also do not think what is in the vax are things you should inject into your body,
Dd will also not be having the mmr vax at schedule due to family history. She might not have it at all but I can't say for sure because I haven't done any research.

[MimiGrace]

lol, true , i wasnt insulting , id be happy to call myself a pack animal on many things, what would you of said then
How about simply 'i did so because i thought it was compulsory'???

i don't see why implying anyone is a pack animal was a very positive way to go about it :no:

[Refresh]

We don't vaccinate....I could write you an essay on why but in short it is for the following reasons.....:

I believe that the long term health risks of the toxins and preservatives in vaccines are high.

The ingredients in vaccines are questionable and to me, unethical. The vaccines originally cultured from aborted foetal cells are definitely, unquestionably out for me.

I believe that Thiomersal is harmful. It is in the process of being removed but yet they claim it isn't harmful which does not add up to me. It makes me wonder what other ingredients will be removed in the future.

I have heard stories and pleas from mothers who KNOW that vaccines affected their child...which largely fall on deaf ears. A mothers story speaks a thousand words to me.

I believe that disease and mortality levels were falling BEFORE vaccines were introduced....and that other factors come into play in this such as hygeine and sanitation standards and better medical treatment.

As we continue to research we will always have the choice to change our mind if we feel it is the best way to go. The other way around is not possible, you cannot UNDO a vaccination once you have had it.

Mothers instinct, it just didn't feel right, especially for one of my children.

I will think of more reasons later I am sure....

Thanks :goodvibes:

[Chunkydunks]

I would have said "I vaxxed because I thought it was compulsory" and "I vaxxed but didn't research". I would have also added an option for those who can't vax due to medical reasons.

[Lil M]

Because I believe that the benefits far outweigh the risk for my child.
:iagree:I'm not happy with the "pack animal" option - it is clearly suggesting that some people are stupid. It's condescending.

[Tegan15]

can it be changed to something more suitable then? This could be a useful and important discussion if people allow it to be.

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

can it be changed to something more suitable then? This could be a useful and important discussion if people allow it to be.

im happy to change it , i just dont know how ????

[scrappydi]

[QUOTE=pinkfluffymarshmellows;4555477]:confused::confused::confused::confused: who does not have a choice ??




Me...as a mum of a little guy who has No immune system at all, who has a rare Immuno deficiency condition called XLA,who is more commonly known as "the boy in the bubble",who has IV blood transfusions every 4 weeks, just to give him a 2nd chance, a little hope, just to give him a relatively normal life...

Hell, a simple cold can turn nasty for him...

The choice to vaccinate him was taken from me...if I did, it would be the end of my little guy...

Please don't judge me.

[MimiGrace]

Me...as a mum of a little guy who has No immune system at all, who has a rare Immuno deficiency condition called XLA,who is more commonly known as "the boy in the bubble",who has IV blood transfusions every 4 weeks, just to give him a 2nd chance, a little hope, just to give him a relatively normal life...

Hell, a simple cold can turn nasty for him...

The choice to vaccinate him was taken from me...if I did, it would be the end of my little guy...

Please don't judge me.
:hugs::hugs: I can't imagine that anyone would judge you for that :( How old is he now?

I am interested to know how you as the parent of someone with a severe immune condition feels about other people not vaxxing their children?

(i'm not trying to be offensive to the other side. I just think its interesting :o)

[Chunkydunks]

Please don't judge me.

No ones judging :hugs::hugs::hugs:

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

[QUOTE=pinkfluffymarshmellows;4555477] who does not have a choice ??




Me...as a mum of a little guy who has No immune system at all, who has a rare Immuno deficiency condition called XLA,who is more commonly known as "the boy in the bubble",who has IV blood transfusions every 4 weeks, just to give him a 2nd chance, a little hope, just to give him a relatively normal life...

Hell, a simple cold can turn nasty for him...

The choice to vaccinate him was taken from me...if I did, it would be the end of my little guy...

Please don't judge me.


gosh that is horrible for your little man, i HIGHLY doubt anyone would judge you for that,its beyond your control
i am glad though you found this out before you did vax and something happened


:hugs::hugs: I can't imagine that anyone would judge you for that :( How old is he now?

I am interested to know how you as the parent of someone with a severe immune condition feels about other people not vaxxing their children?

(i'm not trying to be offensive to the other side. I just think its interesting :o)

i am curious to know also ???

[laylasmumma23]

:rolleyes: pot stirrer!! :laughing:

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

:rolleyes: pot stirrer!! :laughing:

:wave::wave::wave::wave:

[~BEXTER~]

I am a pack animal I guess.

Everyone I have ever known had vaxed so I figured it was just what you had to do.

I didn't really know you had a choice and until coming on here didn't know there were kids out there not vaxed.

I have done research now and still think it is the right thing to do.

[scrappydi]

[QUOTE=scrappydi;4555533]


gosh that is horrible for your little man, i HIGHLY doubt anyone would judge you for that,its beyond your control
i am glad though you found this out before you did vax and something happened



i am curious to know also ???


To be honest...it puts fear in my heart...as a mum you try to do the best for your kids...and when choices are taken from you, it is beyond hard, it is soul destroying(in my personal opinion and experience)...and when you are dealt with hardship, you do the best you can...

[1+1=5]

we vaxxed our first but we wished that we hadn't. we didn't vaxx our second after doing some research and talking to some professionals...infact the lack of GPs knowledge and training has made me realize how much we rely on them and how little they know. anyhoo.

we vaxxed our first because we stupidly thought we had no choice...of course we have a choice!

we didn't vaxx our second based on the research we read and more like the LACK of research on their efficacy. It makes me very uncomfortable that the vaxx schedule chops and changes and there is no available research on on the short and long-term effects of combining the vaxxes like they do on developing little brains. that irks me more than the the low risk of my child developing the illness which they are being vaxxed against, on top of that, studies supporting vaxxes acknowledge that vaxxes are not a guarantee of your child not developing the illness. not good enough for me.

[Refresh]

infact the lack of GPs knowlege and training has made me realise how much we rely on them and how little they know. anyhoo

I agree. It is scary huh?

I fixed your typo in the quote, hahaha :p

[Mrs Nietzsche]

I delay vax. I believe the benefits outweigh the risks.

I also believe that we are incredibly lucky to benefit from the herd immunity that exists for the most part in Aus.

[MimiGrace]

infact the lack of GPs knowlege and training has made me realise how much we rely on them and how little they know. anyhoo.
Yeah

i openly admit that i don't trust any of our local GP's at all :no:
But not just cause of vaccinations (although it is one of the things i don't trust them with).
They've proven time and time again that they aren't listening to me when i tell them something, not taking my concerns into account. :(

[1+1=5]

I agree. It is scary huh?

I fixed your typo in the quote, hahaha :p

yeah, when people say "my GP told me" i do this :rolleyes:. they know the basics in things. I have a friend of mine going through medical school at the moment and she has spoken to a couple of GPs about vaxxing and she said none of them had any training in immunology but during their spervision, their supervising GPs told them that vaxxing was a good thing so then they took their word for it and so the cycle continues.

[1+1=5]

Yeah

i openly admit that i don't trust any of our local GP's at all :no:
But not just cause of vaccinations (although it is one of the things i don't trust them with).
They've proven time and time again that they aren't listening to me when i tell them something, not taking my concerns into account. :(

i have learned the hard way as well. my brother had a brain injry and his GP overdosed him with antidepressants (which after some research my mum realized the medication was banned in many countries due to side-effects) which caused him to become incredibly violent and attempt to kill my sister and myself several times.

i have also asked GPs when dispensing antibiotics if the dosage was based on age or weight as Owen was always in the 98th percentile for his weight. the guy looked it up on the internet and still he gave the wrong dose and Owen had a severe reaction to it (we have a family history of penicillin allergies and turns out Owen has it too). so yeah, GPs are not the fountain of knowledge many people believe they are.

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

We don't vaccinate....I could write you an essay on why but in short it is for the following reasons.....:

I believe that the long term health risks of the toxins and preservatives in vaccines are high.

The ingredients in vaccines are questionable and to me, unethical. The vaccines originally cultured from aborted foetal cells are definitely, unquestionably out for me.

I believe that Thiomersal is harmful. It is in the process of being removed but yet they claim it isn't harmful which does not add up to me. It makes me wonder what other ingredients will be removed in the future.

I have heard stories and pleas from mothers who KNOW that vaccines affected their child...which largely fall on deaf ears. A mothers story speaks a thousand words to me.

I believe that disease and mortality levels were falling BEFORE vaccines were introduced....and that other factors come into play in this such as hygeine and sanitation standards and better medical treatment.

As we continue to research we will always have the choice to change our mind if we feel it is the best way to go. The other way around is not possible, you cannot UNDO a vaccination once you have had it.

Mothers instinct, it just didn't feel right, especially for one of my children.

I will think of more reasons later I am sure....

Thanks :goodvibes:


are they changing vaccinations then ,without ppl being informed ??

[Refresh]

are they changing vaccinations then ,without ppl being informed ??

What do you mean?

[1+1=5]

are they changing vaccinations then ,without ppl being informed ??

do you mean on the schedule or the ingredients. they do both and they do not inform the public. when Owen was due for his 18 month vaxxes, we went along to get them done but it was then removed from the schedule without notice. a few months later the vaxx for it changed and no one said anything to us as to why. that was the beginning of my concern...that they can do that without saying why. one would think that something drastic would have to happen for the government to remove vaxxes from the schedule :detective:

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

I believe that Thiomersal is harmful. It is in the process of being removed but yet they claim it isn't harmful which does not add up to me. It makes me wonder what other ingredients will be removed in the future.



i dont know what it is to start with so i dont get why its bad ?? and when you say it makes you wonder what other ingredients will be removed ,do you mean you think they remove it because they know its bad ?

[1+1=5]

i dont know what it is to start with so i dont get why its bad ?? and when you say it makes you wonder what other ingredients will be removed ,do you mean you think they remove it because they know its bad ?
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/content/161A07AA9F13BE32CA25719D001833FC/$File/uci-myths-guideprov-thiomersal.pdf

keep in mind its a government document

[Tegan15]

are they changing vaccinations then ,without ppl being informed ??


Some of the vaccines have changed over time - whopping cough for instance in nz used to be given at ages 3,4 and 5 months from 1960 to 1970 and then in 1871 it was reduced to 2 injections - 2 and 5 months. Why? Because it wasn't working.
This is the only vax I have researched so far so I can't say much on any of the others but I *think* the measles vax has been changed? I could be very wrong. I think it used to be given seperatley but is now the famous MMR.

[Refresh]

i dont know what it is to start with so i dont get why its bad ?? and when you say it makes you wonder what other ingredients will be removed ,do you mean you think they remove it because they know its bad ?

Some people believe that Thiomersal - mercury - in vaccines causes/triggers a number of problems including autism. Apparantly they have 'proven' that it doesn't but it is in the process of being removed from the MMR vaccine *and maybe others - Missie Mack help me out here* although it remains in some. Why are they removing it if they don't believe it to be harmful?

It makes me wonder, as with all medications....how long are ingredients allowed before we realise they are harmful...if that makes sense? Think Thalidomide and others.

I believe that alot of the information is available if one were to go looking, but you really do have to go looking. I am willing to bet alot of GPs do not have all the facts.

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/content/161A07AA9F13BE32CA25719D001833FC/$File/uci-myths-guideprov-thiomersal.pdf

keep in mind its a government document

gosh that is scary, but these stats are saying for the US , do we have the same vaccines over here ?

i dont understand what that is for , what does it vaccinate against , why is it in there

[Tegan15]

http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/content/161A07AA9F13BE32CA25719D001833FC/$File/uci-myths-guideprov-thiomersal.pdf

keep in mind its a government document


I read this quickly and with tired eyes but is it basically saying they recognise having thiomeral in the vax isn't ideal and they are trying to get rid of it but haven't got anything in Australia to replace it yet?



It is important to note that, for babies at high risk of hepatitis B, the risk of hepatitis


B is far greater than the risk of thiomersal, and
vaccination should not be delayed in this group.


And how many babies are actually at high risk of hep b?

[1+1=5]

gosh that is scary, but these stats are saying for the US , do we have the same vaccines over here ?

i dont understand what that is for , what does it vaccinate against , why is it in there

that is an Australian document. I guess Australian vaxxes are removing mercury because studies have shown that it is harmful, particularly in small babies. whilst that document claims that mercury is ok in small doses, there are others who argue that there is no safe dose particularly for babies. furthermore, when mercury is in other products, chemical we use etc, the amount in vaxxes coupled with what we have in the environment, can build up in the system and be quite damaging.

[Refresh]

gosh that is scary, but these stats are saying for the US , do we have the same vaccines over here ?

i dont understand what that is for , what does it vaccinate against , why is it in there

Thiomersal is a preservative in vaccines.

[Tegan15]

gosh that is scary, but these stats are saying for the US , do we have the same vaccines over here ?


Nope they have a different schedule to us.

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

Thiomersal is a preservative in vaccines.

ok , but i dont get it , is it preserving it in our bodies, or is it just while it sits in the bottle , why dont they just make it fresh ,mmmm does that sound silly lol ??
im on a role of dumb questions today :(

[MimiGrace]

And how many babies are actually at high risk of hep b?[/LEFT]

it [hep b] is found in blood and body fluids, including breast milk, saliva, vaginal secretions and semen;



sexual contact;
sharing of injecting equipment;
needlestick injuries in the health care setting;
reuse of unsterilised or inadequately sterilised needles;
child-to-child transmission through household contact such as biting; and
sharing personal items such as razors, toothbrushes or nail clippers.


Here. (http://www.hepatitisaustralia.com/about_hepatitis/hep_b.html) So i would assume that if mum has hep b, then baby is automatically going to have to (or most probably) because of sharing her blood? (and then coming out of her vagina and drinking her milk)

so yeah, i think its something that they are far more at risk for later on, but i don't know figures for children contracting it.
since i was under the impression that it is most commonly passed on through sex and sharing of needles...which babies don't actually do...
but i guess if its also through biting each other? i'm still not convinced though

[1+1=5]

ok , but i dont get it , is it preserving it in our bodies, or is it just while it sits in the bottle , why dont they just make it fresh ,mmmm does that sound silly lol ??
im on a role of dumb questions today :(

its used to preserve the vaccine and helps stop contamination of the vial.

here is a link http://www.thimersol.com/

[Tegan15]

ok , but i dont get it , is it preserving it in our bodies, or is it just while it sits in the bottle , why dont they just make it fresh ,mmmm does that sound silly lol ??
im on a role of dumb questions today :(

No such thing as a dumb question :hugs:
I don't know the answer though.

I do know mercury doesn't leave your body once it's put in there - it just builds up - so that includes any fish you eat that contain mercury.

[Refresh]

ok , but i dont get it , is it preserving it in our bodies, or is it just while it sits in the bottle , why dont they just make it fresh ,mmmm does that sound silly lol ??
im on a role of dumb questions today :(

Preserving the vaccine, in the bottle.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

Mimigrace - the placenta filters out viruses.

If the baby did get it somehow from the mother during the birth, the vaccine would hardly help.

A good precaution for afterwards though.

[MimiGrace]

Mimigrace - the placenta filters out viruses.

If the baby did get it somehow from the mother during the birth, the vaccine would hardly help.

A good precaution for afterwards though.
yeah my point was more, unless the baby gets it for mum, its usually something transmitted through sex and needles right?

so what are the rates of children being exposed to hep B? Because i don't know any children who are having sex or sharing needles.;)

But i wasn't aware that it could be contracted through biting, which is why i'd be interested to see stats for it.

[Mrs Nietzsche]

I totally agree. I really don't see why it's necessary for newborns to be routinely vaccinated for hep a/b which they aren't going to get (except through a birth injury). I can understand it if the parents have it or someone in the home, but that is surely not the norm.

My Ds was vaccinated without my consent for hep a/b when I was still out from a GA which really annoys me.

[luvmyboys]

And how many babies are actually at high risk of hep b?
[/LEFT]

To give you an idea of the infection rates of Hep b for children (under 14 years of age) from 2003-2006 there were 23 notifications of acute Hep b in NSW, NT, SA, VIC & WA combined. So that equates to 5.75 per year in a population of 4 million children, my question would be why they started it in the first place at BIRTH.

[luvmyboys]

I totally agree. I really don't see why it's necessary for newborns to be routinely vaccinated for hep a/b which they aren't going to get (except through a birth injury). I can understand it if the parents have it or someone in the home, but that is surely not the norm.

My Ds was vaccinated without my consent for hep a/b when I was still out from a GA which really annoys me.

That is so wrong, that would have totally p'd me off, my mum is a midwife at the hospital where I had my ds and she said make sure they don't give him any injections, tell them repeatedly. I had cs with a spinal block and I made sure she stayed with him from the second he was born for that very reason.

[MimiGrace]

To give you an idea of the infection rates of Hep b for children (under 14 years of age) from 2003-2006 there were 23 notifications of acute Hep b in NSW, NT, SA, VIC & WA combined. So that equates to 5.75 per year in a population of 4 million children, my question would be why they started it in the first place at BIRTH.
well...thats an incredibly small number...

yeah, don't think i'll be vaxing for that at birth :no:

maybe when they're heading for highschool like i plan to with the MMR (:ois it really bad that the only reason i wouldn't want a teenage son to get the mumps, is cause i really wanna be a grandma?:o)

[Josh]

Can I say that some people dont vax because of religion, my neighbour doesn't vax her two girls and she is a member of the latter day saints, I;ll just add that both her girls have special needs one is autistic quite severely more so that my autistic son who has been vaxed.:confused::detective:

[MimiGrace]

Can I say that some people dont vax because of religion, my neighbour doesn't vax her two girls and she is a member of the latter day saints, I;ll just add that both her girls have special needs one is autistic quite severely more so that my autistic son who has been vaxed.:confused::detective:
which means that in their case, clearly the ASD has absolutely nothing to do with vaccinations. ;)

Most studies so far have concluded that vaccines do not cause ASD.

[Josh]

which means that in their case, clearly the ASD has absolutely nothing to do with vaccinations. ;)

Most studies so far have concluded that vaccines do not cause ASD.

Hmm maybe but I have 2 sons one who is vaxed and is on the mild/moderate end of the spectrum and another who is not vaxed and is on the more severe end of the spectrum, I do not believe that there are any reputable independant studies that say yes or no, at this stage for me I dont have any answers why 2 out of my 11 kids have developed this condition.:no:

[MimiGrace]

So are you saying you do believe there is a link, or not?

ASD is not very well understood yet, unfortunately, even by those who's lives have been severely affected by it.

Are you doing early intervention and that for them? :hugs:

[KatiesMum]

FPM - I edited the poll for you. Added an extra option too ... hope this is right :D

[my_lot]

When i had my first child Hep B was a routine vax only for babies who parent/s were not from Australia.

My thoughts Are that it was changed to all babies because of that rate being higher.

[Ana Gram]

Here. (http://www.hepatitisaustralia.com/about_hepatitis/hep_b.html) So i would assume that if mum has hep b, then baby is automatically going to have to (or most probably) because of sharing her blood? (and then coming out of her vagina and drinking her milk)

so yeah, i think its something that they are far more at risk for later on, but i don't know figures for children contracting it.
since i was under the impression that it is most commonly passed on through sex and sharing of needles...which babies don't actually do...
but i guess if its also through biting each other? i'm still not convinced though

It's also found in breastmilk so a mother with Hep B would be advised to immunise her child. But they have left a big one off there. It can be passed via contaminated blood products. So if there is a possibility that the child will need blood transfusions, it is advisable to get it. Unfortunately, there is a bit of stigma involved as people think it is trough sex and drugs that it is contracted.

My daughter had the Hep B vax because she is a symptomatic carrier of Haemophillia like me. While a bleed is unlikely, it can still happen.

[QTB]

I chose that i dont vax. which is only kinda true.

I selectivley vaxxed and delay vaxxed with DS1

and planned to do the same with DS2 but my instincts told me not to get him done so i didnt. i still dont feel right getting him done. I will later when his body is strong enough to deal with it.

DS3 (not born yet) i will be selectivly delay vaxxing again, unless i get the same feeling i did with DS2...

[1+1=5]

To give you an idea of the infection rates of Hep b for children (under 14 years of age) from 2003-2006 there were 23 notifications of acute Hep b in NSW, NT, SA, VIC & WA combined. So that equates to 5.75 per year in a population of 4 million children, my question would be why they started it in the first place at BIRTH.

my midwife told me that in Northern Victoria there was a high rate of Hep B a while back so the governemnt decided to vaxx all rather than selectively target groups. im sure there is a better way to word it than that.


That is so wrong, that would have totally p'd me off, my mum is a midwife at the hospital where I had my ds and she said make sure they don't give him any injections, tell them repeatedly. I had cs with a spinal block and I made sure she stayed with him from the second he was born for that very reason.

are you saying that if you sign a form saying that you do not want your baby vaxxed for hepB and Vit K, that they can still do it??????

[Amara]

I was told due to the high immigrant population in my area that hep b was essential as hep b infection was high amongst people from those back grounds. That was said by both the middy at the hospital and my private ob. Seeing my 18 month old son has been bitten 3 times at day care I am glad I got it done. Kids of all nationalities there.

When I was in my twenties I decided not to vax when I had kids due to the autism risk but by the time I had my son two decades later that link had been discredited. I ended up fully vaxxing appart for the pox vax as he had the misfortune to get it from an unvaxxed child before he was old enough to have the vax. He got very sick with a chest infection because of it and also developed bronchitis which he had for weeks. Both were directly related to his pox infection.

[Josh]

So are you saying you do believe there is a link, or not?

ASD is not very well understood yet, unfortunately, even by those who's lives have been severely affected by it.

Are you doing early intervention and that for them? :hugs:

I am currently having a look at different areas of interest, I dont really know at this stage whether i believe in a link or not, as I said both my boys have ASD but only one has had the MMR vax the other son has not had the MMR vax, so for me it may be a genetic link.

And yes both my boys are in early intervention programs, they do speech therapy and they are learning how to sign.:yelclap:

[Fuchsia!]

We don't vaccinate....I could write you an essay on why but in short it is for the following reasons.....:

I believe that the long term health risks of the toxins and preservatives in vaccines are high.

The ingredients in vaccines are questionable and to me, unethical. The vaccines originally cultured from aborted foetal cells are definitely, unquestionably out for me.

I believe that Thiomersal is harmful. It is in the process of being removed but yet they claim it isn't harmful which does not add up to me. It makes me wonder what other ingredients will be removed in the future.

I have heard stories and pleas from mothers who KNOW that vaccines affected their child...which largely fall on deaf ears. A mothers story speaks a thousand words to me.

I believe that disease and mortality levels were falling BEFORE vaccines were introduced....and that other factors come into play in this such as hygeine and sanitation standards and better medical treatment.

As we continue to research we will always have the choice to change our mind if we feel it is the best way to go. The other way around is not possible, you cannot UNDO a vaccination once you have had it.

Mothers instinct, it just didn't feel right, especially for one of my children.

I will think of more reasons later I am sure....

Thanks :goodvibes:


we vaxxed our first but we wished that we hadn't. we didn't vaxx our second after doing some research and talking to some professionals...infact the lack of GPs knowledge and training has made me realize how much we rely on them and how little they know. anyhoo.

we vaxxed our first because we stupidly thought we had no choice...of course we have a choice!

we didn't vaxx our second based on the research we read and more like the LACK of research on their efficacy. It makes me very uncomfortable that the vaxx schedule chops and changes and there is no available research on on the short and long-term effects of combining the vaxxes like they do on developing little brains. that irks me more than the the low risk of my child developing the illness which they are being vaxxed against, on top of that, studies supporting vaxxes acknowledge that vaxxes are not a guarantee of your child not developing the illness. not good enough for me.
:iagree::iagree: with the above quotes

Also alarm bells ring off for me when Drs are getting a bonus incentive money for each child they vax.

I also don'y entirely agree with the herd immunity argument

[MimiGrace]

I am currently having a look at different areas of interest, I dont really know at this stage whether i believe in a link or not, as I said both my boys have ASD but only one has had the MMR vax the other son has not had the MMR vax, so for me it may be a genetic link.

And yes both my boys are in early intervention programs, they do speech therapy and they are learning how to sign.:yelclap:
LOL i'm certainly NEVER going to tell people that its not genetic :no::p considering i can trace the ASD back at least three generations on my dads side (and from what dad has told me, his grandparents probably had it too). - they have aspergers though, not classic autism (thought i'd just specify)

but it seems to dilute with each generation, which is nice :p

[Emmi]

The only injection didn't has ever had was the Vit K because we had a traumatic delivery and she had the potential to bleed internally.
I just don't like the other things they add to vaccines. You also don't know if your child will have a severe reaction to anything in the vaccines till it's done.

[Tegan15]

Dd had the vit k injection at birth because dh has a blood disorder and we couldnt' find any information as to weather or not it would be a problem for her so gave it to her as a cautionary. She didn't have the hep b at birth though.

[Yummy_Mummy]

Because I believe that the benefits far outweigh the risk for my child.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Benji]

I do and I researched first. Even if I didn't, I don't really mind what anybody thinks of me because I follow my instincts with many things.

It's mainly my instinct that made me want to vaccinate. I can read all sorts of things from anti- and pro- and come to no conclusion.

But a family friend of mine cannot walk thanks to polio. So my heart told me to go ahead with vaccination. I have a bright, healthy, happy little boy who took them very well and had no bad reactions whatsoever.

I don't really understand the 'research' thing TBH. I didn't 'research' breastfeeding - I just did it, I've certainly never been criticised for that! I've never 'researched' homeschooling because I don't want to but me sending him to a traditional school.. I won't be criticised for that! I haven't researched bananas but he eats those by the bucketload. Meh :p

[TripleTime]

The benefits far out weight the risks.

We're avoided serious cases of many things because we vaxx. Whooping cough being one

[luvmyboys]

are you saying that if you sign a form saying that you do not want your baby vaxxed for hepB and Vit K, that they can still do it??????
I may be wrong but I think you need to sign a form giving your permission but that won't necessarily stop them.

[soexcited]

I did some research and we (DH and I) both agreed that the benefits outweighed the risks.

[1+1=5]

I may be wrong but I think you need to sign a form giving your permission but that won't necessarily stop them.
i don't understand, how can they do that?

[Harriet]

are you saying that if you sign a form saying that you do not want your baby vaxxed for hepB and Vit K, that they can still do it??????

Sadly, you really have to keep an eye on them every minute:( I had declined Hep B and Vitamin K and it was clearly stated on my hospital card.....DS was taken to special care and given Vitamin K without our consent or knowledge. I only found out about it when I read his notes:(

[1+1=5]

Sadly, you really have to keep an eye on them every minute:( I had declined Hep B and Vitamin K and it was clearly stated on my hospital card.....DS was taken to special care and given Vitamin K without our consent or knowledge. I only found out about it when I read his notes:(
would they immunize and not put it in their notes?

[Harriet]

would they immunize and not put it in their notes?

I would hope not. In our case (DS being given the Vitamin K) I think the nurse who gave it to him just didn't read our card and we were naive enough (he was our first baby) to think that there was some sort of system that they followed. We had been asked if we wanted Vitamin K and Hep B and we clearly declined. It was clearly written on my card. We thought that was the end of it.

Needless to say, next baby - we didn't let out of our sight for one second.

[1+1=5]

I would hope not. In our case (DS being given the Vitamin K) I think the nurse who gave it to him just didn't read our card and we were naive enough (he was our first baby) to think that there was some sort of system that they followed. We had been asked if we wanted Vitamin K and Hep B and we clearly declined. It was clearly written on my card. We thought that was the end of it.

Needless to say, next baby - we didn't let out of our sight for one second.
omg...thats illegal and negligent. what would happen if bubs had a reaction? i would sue their arses

[Harriet]

omg...thats illegal and negligent. what would happen if bubs had a reaction? i would sue their arses

To this day, almost 6 years later I regret not doing something about it to be honest. I still feel that our rights and wishes were violated. The nurse who was with me when I read the notes was terrified by my reaction - you could see that she was thinking holy ****, what's going to happen now?

We were in a bad way though....I was sick, DS was sick and we just let it go. A few days later they tried to convince me to give my sick little boy the Hep B vax "because he might get it in daycare from a Sth East Asian child" :rolleyes:

[reAllytee]

I can't answer the poll because I don't fit any of the boxes :D

DS1 is fully vaxxed & will continue to be.

DS2 is partially vaxxed due to reactions & will never have the MMR. I am hoping he will have the rest by the time he is of school age but we will see how that goes.

I am more pro-vax than against but I am wary & will only go by each individual child because I think as every child is different in their looks, personalities, demands etc they are different in regards to things like vaxxes.

[1+1=5]

To this day, almost 6 years later I regret not doing something about it to be honest. I still feel that our rights and wishes were violated. The nurse who was with me when I read the notes was terrified by my reaction - you could see that she was thinking holy ****, what's going to happen now?

We were in a bad way though....I was sick, DS was sick and we just let it go. A few days later they tried to convince me to give my sick little boy the Hep B vax "because he might get it in daycare from a Sth East Asian child" :rolleyes:

i find all of this to be shocking. i'm home birthing....

[Bron]

One of the main reasons I vax is because of kids like reAllytee's DS2. He has reactions to immunisations and therefore can't have them. Likewise, there are kids with cancer or other serious illnesses who are unable to be vaccinated. I have a healthy, robust boy who can tolerate vaccines. If he is vaccinated, then it contributes to herd immunity which helps protect those kids who cannot be vaccinated.

My approach to vaccination is more that of considering myself to have a responsibility to other children and other families to help protect kids who can't be vaccinated and for whom catching one of the illnesses could be seriously nasty.

[JabberJaw]

I vaxx because i want to.

I vaxx because i believe it benifits us. (my family)

I vaxx and have researched.

I have selected not to vaxx my teen for HPV or swine flu, because the risk is not worth the benifit. (for my family)

I vaxx because i would hate for my children to have a virus and potentially pass it on to someone else who could suffer a loss because of it.

I vaxx because i lost a baby to a vaxx preventable disease while he was in utero.

I vaxx because its my choice and i choose to.

I vaxx because i believe in herd immunity.

I delay vaxxed my son because he was ill and the doctors advised me againt vaxxing him at that time.

[supa_star323]

I vacced and did not research it myself, but I talked them all over with the paed first, and a couple were delayed.

[MummaBear03]

My daughter was *mostly* vaxed by the time she hit school age, but I chose to skip a couple of them because the risk of the needle was greater than the risk of the disease. I can always re-assess the situation at a later time and get her done then if it's right for her. Not vaccinating isn't necessarily a forever thing.

Whooping cough is one I was not going to skip because we all have a weak chest to start with so I wasn't going to risk it.

The ones she had were much later than stated on the schedule. Her GP at the time was happy with that.

In fact, I loved her GP (who has since moved to a different state) because he also had a wife who was a breastfeeding counsellor so he was the only doctor who didn't say to stop breastfeeding, and he also was a non-vaxer for his own 3 children.

As for the Autism link, DD's autistic but it's Asperger's, she's very high functioning and will be able to live independently as an adult. I knew by the time she was 3 that there was something about her.

My brother has it, my cousin's son has it, my father has it, and I found out recently her father has it (which explains a lot) so my guess is that it's genetic since I picked it way before she was due to have had the MMR vaccine.

That's not to say there isn't a link though. It's my belief that a child who is pre-disposed (I think that's the right word lol) to Autism can have the vaccine and the vaccine can set it off, if it isn't already set off. That isn't coming out right, but I can't explain it any better right now :o

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

thanks guys, some really great points in there ,
though i think i may have confused myself even more now what is the right thing to do, how do you make the decision to not vax, is it just because you are worried of the reaction it may have on them ?
i see the point of getting vaccinated because of other children, you could be around someone who has has something and passes it on to your child eg childcare centres, parks , shopping malls ect
which also seems unfair on the children who do vax, ?????
also what do some of you mean by delay vax , do you still get them all , just at a later time , if so why ?

i dont really believe in the swine flu one as i think its to new to know enough about it , but as far as i was aware (until now anyway lol ) was that the rest were safe , i was vaccinated as a kid and im fine , so i never though any more about it

the problem is though research can sway anyway you want it to , you look up positives and negatives about the same thing and there they are, there seems to be no ''evidence' to prove which one is right


oh thanks who ever fixed the poll :wave:

[missie_mack]

i dont really believe in the swine flu one as i think its to new to know enough about it , but as far as i was aware (until now anyway lol ) was that the rest were safe , i was vaccinated as a kid and im fine , so i never though any more about it

The problem a lot of people have is that the vaccines that were given to them as children DID cause problems in some and there are many new vaccines....
Having a guess by your age in your signature I will say you were born 1987-1988 since then a whole heap of vaccines have been added (and even more for the likes of myself who is probably a decade older than you :o)
To give you a rough list of vaccines you may have missed, as while there is a federal list for schedules it actually varies from state to state
Someone your age probably hasn't been routinely vaccinated for or with

Hib
Hep B
Meningoccal
Inactivated Polio (was previously the live sabin version)
Varicella (Chicken Pox)
Rotavirus
MMR (possibly again depending on state or if you were caught in catch up program)
Any vaccine that has 4, 5 or 6 antigens (which is most of the vaccines given at 2,4 and 6 months currently)
The acellular vaccine for whooping cough (previously it was the live whole cell vaccine)
So when you look at the vaccines and the way they have changed in just 20ish years quite a few new virus are now being prevented and most of the vaccines are very different. With one needle often having a mix of vaccines that cover up to 6 virus in the system plus more.

Where when I was a child there was only the age old triple antigen of diptheria/tetanus/whole cell pertussis and it was never given with any other needles on the same day and had been around since before my own mother was born.
Infact the vaccine schedule (while not formally being one at all) was 4 needles and a booster before you went to school. Rubella was given when you went to high school if you weren't already immune with a booster on tetanus and polio sabin. And the government has even stopped the tetanus booster program now, found people were getting polio from the sabin and whooping cough from the whole cell vaccine....

So its really not the same as when we were kids IYKWIM and evidently everyone wasn't ok when we were children hence a few of the changes in the vaccines being provided...

[TripleTime]

Missie Mack - I just turned 22 & have all the vaxx's you listed.:confused:

[missie_mack]

Missie Mack - I just turned 22 & have all the vaxx's you listed.:confused:

You can't have been immunised for rota virus :confused: It was only introduced in 2007 and its not approved to be given to anyone over 6 months old !
MMR was introduced to most states in 1989 however SA didn't introduce it until 1996. Hib was introduced for all infants born from Feb 1993, acellular pertussis vaccine was introduced in 1997 (although those recently immunised under the parent/grandparents scheme would have had it) Hep B for newborns was added to the scheme in 2000, Varicella or Chicken Pox was only approved for use in 2001 and wasn't free until 2005, polio sabin was replaced with the needle in 2005, pneumoccal was only introduced in 2005, meningicoccal was introduced 2003. Data also matches what is supplied in the the Immunisation Handbook (http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/Content/Handbook-home) on page 390

So tripletime I would suggest you go back and look again because while you may have had some of them, most wouldn't have been routinely available or free for someone your age and like I said there is no legal way you have been immunised for rotavirus :no:

[Tegan15]

i find it interesting that some people say they wont get the swine flu vaxx because its still too new to really know if its ok but as you can see from missie macks post most of the current vaxxes out are also knew and have replaced other vaxxes that were ment to be good/safe/needed and are now no longer available. And as we talk about the current vaxxes available they're in the process of changing the current ones available. Not even each state can agree on how and when our children should be vaxxed. All of there things concern me

[FionaV]

I vaccinate because I believe in the benefits of the vaccinations.

I believe the incidence of deadly and potentially deadly illness in our children has dropped enormously since the introduction of vaccination.

I believe that no child should be exposed to the lifelong effects of diseases such as polio and rubella.

I believe that no child should have to deal with the poor eyesight I have had since the age of 6 due to measles. I was lucky - I can still see.

I believe that no parent should have to worry about their children dying of easily preventable diseases, such as whooping cough, diphtheria, polio and the like.

I believe the parents of children who can't be vaccinated, for various reasons (note I said can't, not won't) have the right to believe that their children won't be exposed to these diseases. For that to happen the majority much be vaccinated.

I do not like that parents of children who are healthy and vaccinatable are relying on the herd immunity of others. That herd immunity drops with every child not vaccinated.

I believe that there is no question that most of these viruses do exist in the community, and will eventually make a comeback if vaccination rates continue to drop.

I believe vaccination is responsible parenting.

[Fuchsia!]

I believe vaccination is responsible parenting.
That is incredibly rude. I am very very responsible. Just because my conclusion of vaccination is different to yours, does not make me irresponsible.

Im doing what is in the absolute best interest of my child, for you to say im irresponsible is rude and arrogant.

Regarding herd immunity, im not relying on it protecting my son because i don't believe in herd immunity.

On a small percentage of the population is vaccinated. My child has more risk of catching a VPD from an adult or elderly person then a non vaccinated child.

[Emmi]

I believe vaccination is responsible parenting.

I too find this highly offensive :no: How do you know that I'm not a responsible parent? We parents that choose to not vaccinate do so with the belief that that is what is best for our children. Just because i dont vax, doesn't mean anything.
Please don't judge others. This forum is supposed to be for people to able to freely express their view without being judged or persecuted for their choices :thumbsup:, and I believe the OP was asking why we DO or DON'T vaccinate and WHY :yes: :ecomcity:

[FionaV]

So you can express your views freely but I'm expected to shut up and keep mine to myself? Message received. My opinion on vaccination is exactly as i stated and won't change. I answered the question - I DO vaccinate and I said WHY - because I believe it is responsible parenting. So shoot me.

[RedPanda]

I believe in herd immunity. I respect people's choices, but I thought that even anti-vacc doctors, scientists and advocates don't deny that herd immunity exists? I'll try and find the thread but I think that's been discussed before and most from the anti-vacc scientific community don't question herd immunity's existence, they just don't believe the risks are worth it.

I vaccinate because I think the risk to my children is smaller than catching and getting nasty side effects from VPD. My second baby was hospitalised at two weeks of age because he caught his older brother's virus, which his body and immature immune system was simply not capable of fighting (despite breastfeeding). It was not a VPD, but I would have felt terrible if it was.

I'm more comfortable taking the chances with the vaccines than the disease.

[IndigoJ]

TBH i vaxxed because i thought i had to, i didnt know that people didnt vax until i joined bubhub, by then DS was almost 12mths so he got that one and his 18mths one and now doesnt get one until he is 4yo. But i believe the benefits outweigh the risks so will get my next children vaxxed too.

[jlc70]

So you can express your views freely but I'm expected to shut up and keep mine to myself? Message received. My opinion on vaccination is exactly as i stated and won't change. I answered the question - I DO vaccinate and I said WHY - because I believe it is responsible parenting. So shoot me.

I support you and have exactly the same opinions FionaV....after all it is as you said -your opinion only that it is responsible parenting, I did not take it you were implying others were irresponsible in stating this. I thought you wrote the best answer so far (IMO).
As a nurse, I have seen babies struggle and die from whooping cough - which has largely formed my opinion - to vaccinate, but I also respect those who choose against it for the many other reasons - I only hope those unvacc'd people/children respect me when I ask them not to visit my newborn babies because they have no protection. There are valid cases for both sides and we have to be tolerant of each others choices.

[Fuchsia!]

So you can express your views freely but I'm expected to shut up and keep mine to myself? Message received. My opinion on vaccination is exactly as i stated and won't change. I answered the question - I DO vaccinate and I said WHY - because I believe it is responsible parenting. So shoot me.

Ok fair enough.

I will add more onto my opinion while im here.

I think Im very responsible parent for taking the time and effort to put in the hard yards of making an informed decision. A decision that was not taken lightly, and a decision that was best for my child.

I think its responsible parenting to make an informed decision. A real informed decision.

[Fuchsia!]

I only hope those unvacc'd people/children respect me when I ask them not to visit my newborn babies because they have no protection. There are valid cases for both sides and we have to be tolerant of each others choices.

I do respect that choice and i wouldn't probably do the same thing, but i hope that you don't just discriminate against non vaxxed children because in a lot of cases they are the ones that spread anything, its adults and the elderly. Keep that in mind :)

[Fuchsia!]

I believe in herd immunity. I respect people's choices, but I thought that even anti-vacc doctors, scientists and advocates don't deny that herd immunity exists? I'll try and find the thread but I think that's been discussed before and most from the anti-vacc scientific community don't question herd immunity's existence, they just don't believe the risks are worth it.


I just don't see how it can work TBH. When only a small percentage of the population is vaccination.

There would be way more unvaxxed then there would be vaccinated.

[1+1=5]

Ok fair enough.

I will add more onto my opinion while im here.

I think Im very responsible parent for taking the time and effort to put in the hard yards of making an informed decision. A decision that was not taken lightly, and a decision that was best for my child.

I think its responsible parenting to make an informed decision. A real informed decision.


well said.

[FionaV]

I just don't see how it can work TBH. When only a small percentage of the population is vaccination.

There would be way more unvaxxed then there would be vaccinated.

What do you consider a small percentage? This table (from the Medicare website http://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au/provider/patients/acir/statistics.jsp) shows the current vaccination percentages for children 12-15 months of age as at 30 September 2009. Tables further down the page give the percentages for older children.

The table won't post properly - please go to the link given to see it.

Almost all percentages given are over 90% and those that aren't are 89.something. Herd immunity is only compromised when the percentage drops below 80%. Even for five year olds, the percentage is still over 80% - some may not have had their starting school needles yet (it's as at the end of September), and some parents do get lazier about them as the children get older.

While non-vaccinators seem like a big percentage of the population, if you take Bubhub as the norm, they are actually quite a small fringe group. Thank goodness.

[Fuchsia!]

Last i checked, children don't make up the population of Australia

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

if you want to debate plz take it somewhere else
thank you :wave::wave::wave:

[MimiGrace]

Last i checked, children don't make up the population of Australia
thats what gets me.

i have had so many people insult ME for having been an unvaccinated child, and when i ask them (the adults) what their vax status is they respond with 'oh no, i would never vaxx myself' :eek:

so yes, i CAN see how vaccinating can help our community - but not when its ONLY our children being vaccinated. :no:

if you have an issue with MY [potential :p] children being vaccinated, then make sure you, your children/partner/parents etc are all fully up to date :shame:

[FionaV]

Last i checked, children don't make up the population of Australia

Sorry, you posted while I was editing.

No, they don't. But those vaccinated children grow up, still vaccinated. Most of us were vaccinated as children, and still carry that vaccinated status with us.

Immigrants to the country are required to be fully vaccinated before they enter the country - it's a Government requirement. At one time I was required to have my vaccination status checked for employment, and was still immune to most things I had been vaccinated for as a child (except tetanus, which we all know wears off). I think even if you looked at the adult population, you would find quite a high percentage (maybe not 80%, but high) has been vaccinated at some time. Some vaccinations do wear off, but many don't.

[missie_mack]

No, they don't. But those vaccinated children grow up, still vaccinated. Most of us were vaccinated as children, and still carry that vaccinated status with us.


To keep up ones vaccination status boosters are generally required which most adults fail to maintain.

[FertileMertile]

We don't vaccinate....I could write you an essay on why but in short it is for the following reasons.....:

I believe that the long term health risks of the toxins and preservatives in vaccines are high.

The ingredients in vaccines are questionable and to me, unethical. The vaccines originally cultured from aborted foetal cells are definitely, unquestionably out for me.

I believe that Thiomersal is harmful. It is in the process of being removed but yet they claim it isn't harmful which does not add up to me. It makes me wonder what other ingredients will be removed in the future.

I have heard stories and pleas from mothers who KNOW that vaccines affected their child...which largely fall on deaf ears. A mothers story speaks a thousand words to me.

I believe that disease and mortality levels were falling BEFORE vaccines were introduced....and that other factors come into play in this such as hygeine and sanitation standards and better medical treatment.

As we continue to research we will always have the choice to change our mind if we feel it is the best way to go. The other way around is not possible, you cannot UNDO a vaccination once you have had it.

Mothers instinct, it just didn't feel right, especially for one of my children.

I will think of more reasons later I am sure....

Thanks :goodvibes:

:iagree: 100% Pretty much all the same reasons why we dont vaxx


we vaxxed our first but we wished that we hadn't. we didn't vaxx our second after doing some research and talking to some professionals...infact the lack of GPs knowledge and training has made me realize how much we rely on them and how little they know. anyhoo.

we vaxxed our first because we stupidly thought we had no choice...of course we have a choice!

we didn't vaxx our second based on the research we read and more like the LACK of research on their efficacy. It makes me very uncomfortable that the vaxx schedule chops and changes and there is no available research on on the short and long-term effects of combining the vaxxes like they do on developing little brains. that irks me more than the the low risk of my child developing the illness which they are being vaxxed against, on top of that, studies supporting vaxxes acknowledge that vaxxes are not a guarantee of your child not developing the illness. not good enough for me.

:iagree: with this to! We got DS1 vaxxed for the same reasons and are now regretting it. Both me and DP have autism in our family (my sister is ASD and i believe hers was triggered but vaxxing) and DS1 has delayed speech. My instinct tells me that its due to vaxxing. Something I can never take back.


http://www.health.gov.au/internet/immunise/publishing.nsf/content/161A07AA9F13BE32CA25719D001833FC/$File/uci-myths-guideprov-thiomersal.pdf

keep in mind its a government document

:laughing: Love it!


I totally agree. I really don't see why it's necessary for newborns to be routinely vaccinated for hep a/b which they aren't going to get (except through a birth injury). I can understand it if the parents have it or someone in the home, but that is surely not the norm.

My Ds was vaccinated without my consent for hep a/b when I was still out from a GA which really annoys me.

Thats just disgusting! I would be taking legal action over that. They sure didnt waste any time jabbing your son with needles if you hadnt even recovered from your GA!


my midwife told me that in Northern Victoria there was a high rate of Hep B a while back so the governemnt decided to vaxx all rather than selectively target groups. im sure there is a better way to word it than that.


My CHN also told me that parents kicked up a stink as their children werent offered the Hep B so they changed it. What a load of cr@p. We refused this shot at birth for DS2.




Also alarm bells ring off for me when Drs are getting a bonus incentive money for each child they vax.

I also don'y entirely agree with the herd immunity argument

Also seems dodgy to me that they relieve those incentives also. Funny how they dont like to admit it tho :rolleyes:


That is incredibly rude. I am very very responsible. Just because my conclusion of vaccination is different to yours, does not make me irresponsible.

Im doing what is in the absolute best interest of my child, for you to say im irresponsible is rude and arrogant.

Regarding herd immunity, im not relying on it protecting my son because i don't believe in herd immunity.

On a small percentage of the population is vaccinated. My child has more risk of catching a VPD from an adult or elderly person then a non vaccinated child.

:iagree:



I think Im very responsible parent for taking the time and effort to put in the hard yards of making an informed decision. A decision that was not taken lightly, and a decision that was best for my child.

I think its responsible parenting to make an informed decision. A real informed decision.

Totally agree once again. I dont care if you choose to vaxx or not, its an individual decision. I just think parents need to make an informed choice.

[A Party of Five]

Yes I do but I always research it first :yes:

[HazTechDad]

We have done lots of research and have vaccinated the little bloke for the following reasons:

We believe evidence showing the benefits massively outweigh the risks.

We believe that vaccination plays a large part in the potential eradication of many diseases (eg Polio), and that is a goal humanity should strive for to benefit future generations.

We believe that if vaccination rates fall, then many diseases will return to epidemic proportions, as demonstrated in the UK and NSW Northern Rivers.

We believe we have a responsibility to add to herd immunity to help protect those children who are not able to be vaccinated (due to illness, allergy etc), and those too young to be vaccinated.

We could not live with ourselves if our child died (or contributed to the death of another) when we had it within our power to prevent that from happening.

We believe that our son should not have to endure pain and suffering unnecessarily from diseases that can be prevented, even if the risk of permanent injury is relatively low.


EDIT:
One more reason....

We looked long and hard at many of the anti-vaccination sites (AVN, Mercola, AofA, NaturalNews, Whale etc). Many of the claims they made were pretty scary and we wanted to be sure the "risks" were worth it, and see what evidence (if any) they had to support their claims. To be honest, we found that basically every site we looked at was packed with demonstrable mistruths and often personal attacks on Doctors. For us, this decided lack of credibility made the decision that much easier.

[HazTechDad]

There seems to be a lot of confusion on this thread about Thiomersal, it's purpose, it's dangers and whether it is still in vaccinations.

Briefly, Thiomersal is a preservative that has been used in some vaccines since the 1930s to prevent bacteria growing in the vaccine before it is used. It is there to make vaccines safer. Thiomersal is comprised of 50% ethyl-mercury (by weight). Because mercury is heavy, this translates to about one molecule of mercury per dose of vaccine.

To clear up a few things from posts:


Apparantly they have 'proven' that it doesn't but it is in the process of being removed from the MMR vaccine *and maybe others - Missie Mack help me out here* although it remains in some. Why are they removing it if they don't believe it to be harmful?

There are several studies that have shown the amount of thiomersal in vaccines is not harmful. Despite it's removal from child vaccines a decade ago, there has been no drop in autism rates over that period, further adding to evidence that it is not to blame.

Thiomersal was never used in the MMR vaccine.

It was removed from other child vaccines because the US CDC was becoming concerned that as exposure to environmental mercury increased (particularly in fish), there was potential that infants could receive a dose that approached safe guidelines.


I read this quickly and with tired eyes but is it basically saying they recognise having thiomeral in the vax isn't ideal and they are trying to get rid of it but haven't got anything in Australia to replace it yet?

Thiomersal was removed from all childhood vaccines between 1999 and 2000. The exception to this is the GSK Hep B vaccine which still contains a trace amount after the filtering process. This is a maximum of 0.5µg (millionths of a gram) per dose.

There is thiomersal in some flu vaccines, and some adult formulations of other vaccines.



I do know mercury doesn't leave your body once it's put in there - it just builds up - so that includes any fish you eat that contain mercury.

That isn't correct. There are two types of mercury, methyl-mercury (the type in fish), and ethyl-mercury (the type in thiomersal).

Methyl-mercury does remain in the body for an extended period, but generally gets out eventually. Studies have shown that it has a body half-life of ~21 days (that is, the amount remaining in your body halves every 21 days).

However, ethyl-mercury breaks down much faster and is quickly excreted by the body. It has a half-life of 3.7 days, and is effectively eliminated after about 30 days. I don't have the ref to this study on me, but PM me if you want it and I'll dig up the link.

There is about 16 times more mercury in a single serve of Tuna (fresh or canned) than in a dose of thiomersal-preserved vaccine, and as I wrote, the mercury in fish is methyl-mercury which remains in the body for a much longer period.

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

There seems to be a lot of confusion on this thread about Thiomersal, it's purpose, it's dangers and whether it is still in vaccinations.

Briefly, Thiomersal is a preservative that has been used in some vaccines since the 1930s to prevent bacteria growing in the vaccine before it is used. It is there to make vaccines safer. Thiomersal is comprised of 50% ethyl-mercury (by weight). Because mercury is heavy, this translates to about one molecule of mercury per dose of vaccine.

To clear up a few things from posts:



There are several studies that have shown the amount of thiomersal in vaccines is not harmful. Despite it's removal from child vaccines a decade ago, there has been no drop in autism rates over that period, further adding to evidence that it is not to blame.

Thiomersal was never used in the MMR vaccine.

It was removed from other child vaccines because the US CDC was becoming concerned that as exposure to environmental mercury increased (particularly in fish), there was potential that infants could receive a dose that approached safe guidelines.



Thiomersal was removed from all childhood vaccines between 1999 and 2000. The exception to this is the GSK Hep B vaccine which still contains a trace amount after the filtering process. This is a maximum of 0.5µg (millionths of a gram) per dose.

There is thiomersal in some flu vaccines, and some adult formulations of other vaccines.



That isn't correct. There are two types of mercury, methyl-mercury (the type in fish), and ethyl-mercury (the type in thiomersal).

Methyl-mercury does remain in the body for an extended period, but generally gets out eventually. Studies have shown that it has a body half-life of ~21 days (that is, the amount remaining in your body halves every 21 days).

However, ethyl-mercury breaks down much faster and is quickly excreted by the body. It has a half-life of 3.7 days, and is effectively eliminated after about 30 days. I don't have the ref to this study on me, but PM me if you want it and I'll dig up the link.

There is about 16 times more mercury in a single serve of Tuna (fresh or canned) than in a dose of thiomersal-preserved vaccine, and as I wrote, the mercury in fish is methyl-mercury which remains in the body for a much longer period.



how do you know this ?? do you have links to back it up ??:)

[HazTechDad]

how do you know this ?? do you have links to back it up ??:)

Sure. I think these should cover it:

Lots of thiomersal info, including introduction date, safety, effectiveness, purpose and fact it was never in MMR:
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm096228.htm

World Health Organisation thiomersal fact sheet:
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/questions/en/

Australian thiomersal info sheet (Including a list of thiomersal-free vaccines):
http://www.ncirs.edu.au/immunisation/fact-sheets/thiomersal-fact-sheet.pdf

Ethyl-mercury pharmacokinetic study (Showing 3.7 day half-life):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18245396


(BTW, the reason thiomersal has never been in MMR is because it's a live vaccine, and thiomersal would kill the live component, making the vaccine useless. For the same reason, it was never in the rotavirus vaccine or oral Polio vaccine).

EDIT: Sorry, left out the study showing no fall in autism after the removal of thiomersal (Actually continued to rise):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18180424

[pinkfluffymarshmellows]

Sure. I think these should cover it:

Lots of thiomersal info, including introduction date, safety, effectiveness, purpose and fact it was never in MMR:
http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/SafetyAvailability/VaccineSafety/ucm096228.htm

World Health Organisation thiomersal fact sheet:
http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/topics/thiomersal/questions/en/

Australian thiomersal info sheet (Including a list of thiomersal-free vaccines):
http://www.ncirs.edu.au/immunisation/fact-sheets/thiomersal-fact-sheet.pdf

Ethyl-mercury pharmacokinetic study (Showing 3.7 day half-life):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18245396


(BTW, the reason thiomersal has never been in MMR is because it's a live vaccine, and thiomersal would kill the live component, making the vaccine useless. For the same reason, it was never in the rotavirus vaccine or oral Polio vaccine).

EDIT: Sorry, left out the study showing no fall in autism after the removal of thiomersal (Actually continued to rise):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18180424


looks very interesting , look forward to the read , you look like a handy source to have welcome to BH

[trishalishous]

austimages, thank you for a fantastic post with some great info and reference!

[sandy cheeks]

After doing research I have decided the benefits for my family outweigh the risks (appart from the swine flu vax)
I also grew up knowing 2 people who contracted polio as children and couldn't walk because of it and my grandma talking about when she was a girl sometimes they would miss things/couldn't go out of the house because of outbreaks.

[Pinkzy]

I'll be vaxxing, I believe it's the best thing for my son and like a lot of others have said, I believe the benefits outweigh the risks.

[MermaidSister]

Because my mother died a horrific death of a non-preventable illness and if similar suffering can be avoided with diseases that ARE preventable, i will take necessary measures to prevent them at least. ie, vaccinate.

Because i and most of my peers received virtually the same vaccines as kids and none of us have suffered for it.

Because i believe the chemicals and poisons we are exposed to in day to day life (like in most foods, radiation from computers and mobiles etc, traffic fumes and so on) should be a far greater concern than the small levels of chemical etc in vaccines. I trust highly trained scientists to regulate what goes into these things at a safe level for young bodies. I am prepared to take the tiny risk of adverse reaction over the very real risk of fatal infectious disease.

I feel it is a social responsibility as well as a personal one to ensure vaccination levels are kept up to keep these diseases at bay, one major health advantage we have in the first world over poorer countries where children still die in droves of preventable illnesses like whooping cough and tetanus, or are crippled for life by polio.

[bunintheoven12]

We don't vaccinate....I could write you an essay on why but in short it is for the following reasons.....:

I believe that the long term health risks of the toxins and preservatives in vaccines are high.

The ingredients in vaccines are questionable and to me, unethical. The vaccines originally cultured from aborted foetal cells are definitely, unquestionably out for me.

I believe that Thiomersal is harmful. It is in the process of being removed but yet they claim it isn't harmful which does not add up to me. It makes me wonder what other ingredients will be removed in the future.

I have heard stories and pleas from mothers who KNOW that vaccines affected their child...which largely fall on deaf ears. A mothers story speaks a thousand words to me.

I believe that disease and mortality levels were falling BEFORE vaccines were introduced....and that other factors come into play in this such as hygeine and sanitation standards and better medical treatment.

As we continue to research we will always have the choice to change our mind if we feel it is the best way to go. The other way around is not possible, you cannot UNDO a vaccination once you have had it.

Mothers instinct, it just didn't feel right, especially for one of my children.

I will think of more reasons later I am sure....

Thanks :goodvibes:

:iagree:

One more reason for me is that vaccination does not offer 100% protection from the disease.

[fairystar267]

Sorry, you posted while I was editing.

No, they don't. But those vaccinated children grow up, still vaccinated. Most of us were vaccinated as children, and still carry that vaccinated status with us.

Immigrants to the country are required to be fully vaccinated before they enter the country - it's a Government requirement. At one time I was required to have my vaccination status checked for employment, and was still immune to most things I had been vaccinated for as a child (except tetanus, which we all know wears off). I think even if you looked at the adult population, you would find quite a high percentage (maybe not 80%, but high) has been vaccinated at some time. Some vaccinations do wear off, but many don't.
We emigrated here last year and wasnt required to give any information about our vax status or have vaxxes that they dont have in the UK such as Hep b , CP etc...

[FionaV]

That's interesting. My work is mostly with refugee and other "at risk" migrants, so possibly the requirements are more stringent for them.

[WorkingClassMum]

[QUOTE]The%