Australia lags in breastfeeding [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

gremily

01-08-2006, 14:45

Thought you all would like to read this from the ABA:

Australia lags behind world in breastfeeding
Australia not a 'breastfeeding nation'

The Australian Breastfeeding Association calls for immediate government action, to protect, promote and support, breastfeeding, including adoption of the WHO Code

Sydney, 27 July, 2006 - Australia lags behind the rest of the world with breastfeeding. Only one in three Australian mums continue to breastfeed babies until six months of age - well under national health recommendations and world average breastfeeding rates.

A biological normality, breastfeeding is considered less the social norm in Australia with the country's breastfeeding rates in the first six months of life below the world average and health nutrition guidelines. Available national figures show that only 32 per cent of Australian babies are still being breastfed exclusively at six months, which falls short of the National Health and Medical Research Council's (NHMRC) recommended target of 80 per cent and is also under the 34 per cent world average.

Raising the Australian breastfeeding rate is important on a national health level. ABA President, Margaret Grove said, "As a society we can't be short-sighted about the benefits of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is an important preventative health behaviour with implications for both infant and maternal health, and for national health costs."

Research into the cost of hospitalisation for weaning babies prematurely, suggested that the cost to the Australian health system annually was between $60 and $120 million .

Whilst the ABA actively supports and promotes breastfeeding through its national breastfeeding counselling service, work place breastfeeding accreditation and other community initiatives, it does admit that achieving higher breastfeeding rates will take time and the dedicated support of the Australian Government. "The Australian Government must commit to effective action if we are to move towards, rather than away from, the recommended nutrition standards for babies. The best way to increase exclusive breastfeeding rates and make Australia a breastfeeding nation is for government to protect, promote and support a mother's choice to breastfeed and for the government to adopt the World Health Organisations (WHO) code," said Grove.

The WHO code is important because it protects and promotes breastfeeding, and regulates the marketing of infant formula. Unlike other countries which have adopted the WHO Code, Australia only complies with the MAIF agreement, a voluntary 'Gentleman's' agreement which restricts the marketing of infant formula. "Clearly, it is not working as advertising by infant formula manufacturers is increasing year on year," said Grove.

It is this increased marketing of infant formula that the ABA believes is one key reason for low Australian breastfeeding rates. Dietary guidelines prepared by the NHMRC noted strong evidence that mothers' feeding choices were influenced by commercial marketing practices.

In the lead up to and during World Breastfeeding Week, 1 - 7 August 2006, the ABA and its 1,400 national volunteers will intensify lobbying efforts directed at the Federal Government.

Grove is urging all interested members of the public to assist by writing letters to their Member of Parliament and demanding that the marketing of infant formula in Australia be re-addressed and replaced with a regulated, mandatory code such as the WHO Code.

NOTES TO EDITORS:
For further information about the ABA visit http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/
World Breastfeeding Week is 1 - 7 August 2006

cheezelkat

01-08-2006, 14:49

It's certainly very interesting and such a shame the rates are so low.

I love telling people I've been bfing 6 months now, and they're like, "youre STILL feeding him?". :confused:

the_queen

01-08-2006, 14:51

32% !!?? :eek: Not good.

Thanks for the article gremily :thumbsup:

*Jetiza*

01-08-2006, 14:54

I only breastfed my girls for about two months due to getting mastitis. My son however, I am still breastfeeding him at 15 months - he doesn`t want to stop! I too get the "You`re STILL feeding him" comments..:hugs: Each to their own though!!

Mahjong

01-08-2006, 14:56

I would have loved being able to breastfeed, sadly, no matter what I tried and how many professionals I saw, it couldn't do it.

gremily

01-08-2006, 14:58

I'm a big 'GO BREASTFEEDING' advocate! I breastfed DD1 for 13 mths (looking back I wish I'd done it more, but then she decided she enjoyed food too much!!).
Still breastfeeding DD2 and she'll be 1 in 13 days!! She's the opposite of DD1 and enjoys her bf far much more than food. Hoping to bf her 2 yrs and beyond, we'll see how we go!

This week is World Breastfeeding Week (1-7 August). GO BREASTFEEDING!!!

uptheduff

01-08-2006, 15:02

Lisa123

01-08-2006, 15:06

I tried breastfeeding my son but ended up with mastitis so gave up.

I think that first time mums actually need to be educated that it is ok not to breastfeed, so much emphasis is placed on breastfeeding in antinatal classes that it does make some mum feel like they are not providing properly for their child.

Thankfully I'm not one of those mothers you felt that they had to breastfeed. If I could breastfeed and everything was going well I'd continue breastfeeding, however if for whatever reason I couldn't breastfeed I was happy to bottlefeed my son.

My son is fit and healthy and that is all that matters.

mum_2_5

01-08-2006, 15:06

I would have bf longer if I had the help. I so wish I could go back to feeding him. I gave up feeding him about 3 weeks ago.

Mahjong

01-08-2006, 15:15

I think that first time mums actually need to be educated that it is ok not to breastfeed, so much emphasis is placed on breastfeeding in antinatal classes that it does make some mum feel like they are not providing properly for their child.

:thumbsup: Thank you!

Not being able to breastfeed and the guilt from Nurses and others stemmed my PND

Lisa123

01-08-2006, 15:24

:thumbsup: Thank you!

Not being able to breastfeed and the guilt from Nurses and others stemmed my PND

Breastfeeding is great if you are able to do it, but it's not worth stressing over if you can't do it, babies will grow to be healthy on formula as well.

I'm sorry that you were made to feel that way.

Mahjong

01-08-2006, 15:56

Thanks Lisa :) I really wanted to breastfeed, but life goes on LOL! Toko a while to realise that.

It did make me feel incredible guilty as I was told that formula feeding creates health issues down the track such as Asthma etc..

Maybe next time round :thumbsup:

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 16:05

I don't suppose they gave any extra information like a link to the research about "early weaning" health problems and who funded it?

Mahjong

01-08-2006, 16:17

Nope LOL! She shut up pretty quickly though when I replied that if he WERE to get asthma then Formula feeding had NOTHING to do with it as I have Asthma and come from a family of chronic asthmatics sufferers :rolleyes:

meme

01-08-2006, 16:29

Happy World Breastfeeding Week:yelclap:

Sarie

01-08-2006, 16:38

spiritedfamily

01-08-2006, 16:39

I think is important that in accomodating those that struggle to breastfeed that we don't forget to promote breastfeeding as a healthy natural thing to do for your growing baby. Breastmilk is the best milk your baby can receive, formula is a substitute not a replacement. Educating teenagers about birth, breastfeeding and all that motherhood involves is critical to help our future woman birth better and increase the chances of woman breastfeeding successfully.

It has always been explained to me from a tribal perspective, that young girls grew up witnessing their aunties, mothers and other woman in their tribe feeding, so it was learned from such a young age. Hence the importance of educating in our current climate and getting over our hang ups on seeing the naked breast.

I have breastfed all my babies through all my difficulties and I had to learn and it was hard but I did it and I persisted because I knew it was the best milk they could receive.

porridge

01-08-2006, 16:39

I would've liked to bf for longer too... DS hasn't been sick yet though and he's been on formula since 6 weeks old.

I wonder if the studies show that other variables contribute to sick kids...? :confused:

Milliner

01-08-2006, 16:45

That�s very interesting! I�m still BF my DS I have started to give him a bottle once a day (most days) . You do get comments from people �oh so your still feeding him� it makes me think mmmm what do you mean by that comment???:confused: :confused: :confused:

spiritedfamily

01-08-2006, 16:48

In all the hospitals I have been to during my pregnancies I have only ever seen walls covered in advertising breast feeding. I am a bottle feeder and can say I have never seen a poster advertising bottle feeding in any hospital or doctors surgery.
I actually find it quite sad how little support we have.

Its not that your unsupported but that the hospitals are trying to encourage breastfeeding as it is the best method of feeding your baby. Bottlefeeding can't supply the antibodies that breastmilk does..

Its not personal but a very important campaign.

Its interesting you feel prejudice but where it matters and thats from the very beginning...dolls are sold with bottles, I don't see any breast attachment in their box...this debate could go forever but the bottom line none of these campaigns are aimed at making you feel guilty or inadequate, but in promoting the best milk source for your child and thats the facts!!

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 16:53

I wonder if the studies show that other variables contribute to sick kids...? :confused:

Probably not as that would throw doubt on the results of research. Statistics can show what ever you want them to show if you are trying to prove something.

Sarie

01-08-2006, 16:54

Its not personal but a very important campaign.

Its interesting you feel prejudice but where it matters and thats from the very beginning...
I'm not denying that it's important. But not everyone can breastfeed. When I had to bottle feed my first child in hospital I was left to figure it out on my own. I didn't get any help from midwives at all.
If you can breastfeed fantastic, just mentioning that not all of us can and those of us who can't deserve just as much support.

jessgray

01-08-2006, 16:55

i bottle feed ds1 and dont feel much predjuce (sp?) about not BF him. i have been told that his allergies may have been prevented if i did BF for at least 6 months.but he comes from an asthmatic family and i have allergies so i doubt it lol.

i am going to give BF'ing a go but i know that if i cant BF , FF isnt bad it just means its what is best for bubs and me :)

Sarie

01-08-2006, 16:55

Probably not as that would throw doubt on the results of research. Statistics can show what ever you want them to show if you are trying to prove something.
Exactly. Well said

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 17:04

Its not personal but a very important campaign.

Its interesting you feel prejudice but where it matters and thats from the very beginning...dolls are sold with bottles, I don't see any breast attachment in their box...this debate could go forever but the bottom line none of these campaigns are aimed at making you feel guilty or inadequate, but in promoting the best milk source for your child and thats the facts!!

Unfortunately, I really do believe that the campaign has taken a wrong turn somewhere. Many, many mothers who formula feed have experienced scare tactics and guilt trips which have led to them feeling inadequate and can trigger bouts of depression. There must be a better way of going about it.

Sarie

01-08-2006, 17:09

Scare tactics rule the world.

tickle

01-08-2006, 17:35

If you can't breastfeed, you can't breastfeed. I don't think that campaigns promoting breastfeeding are there to make FF's feel bad or anything similar. You do what you can, formula feeding is obviously a very good substitute for breastfeeding when you can't breastfeed. Campaigns like this are designed to encourage people to try breastfeeding. I don't think it is saying "You didn't try hard enough", or anything like that. I think it is more of a statement that this country is possibly less accepting of breastfeeding on the whole. There is also can be an incredible lack of support for mothers in the early days which I'm sure is a contributing factor too.
It would be very sad the day when in hospitals they have advertisments up promoting formula feeding. They are all through society already. I think in hospitals there is the greatest need to encourage breastfeeding.

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 17:40

Happy Lady, the posters might not be saying that but information is not just gained from posters. We get information about feeding from various employees in hospital, CHNs, family members, internet forums etc. And I can tell you the information gathered from these sources is often "You aren't trying hard enough".

the_queen

01-08-2006, 17:43

Poor chelle, that must have been really hard to hear.

I only have the utmost respect for the MW's who helped me when I was a first-time mum. I was so determined to breastfeed, despite our challenges, and they were 100% supportive of what I wanted. The girl I was sharing a room with, she FF from birth, and they were 100% supportive of her too.

tickle

01-08-2006, 17:51

Sorry chelle, I just get really disheartened when I read something that might possibly encourage one new mum to be to try breastfeeding and everything seems to get spun around as a negative. I apologise for my unusual out burst and will retreat under my rock.:o :hugs:

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 18:05

Don't mind me, I am quite passionate about this subject. I am fully supportive of breastfeeding, full steam ahead I say. But I think it is hard for breastfeeding advocates and mothers to understand the comments and reactions we formula feeding mothers get and how it makes us feel.

We (FF mothers) do get the scare tactics of how we are making our children sick, giving them health problems as adults, causing food allergies, asthma, eczema etc. We get the guilt trips of if we loved our children enough we would have kept breastfeeding no matter what. And when we say the guilt word, we get told that there is no reason for us to feel guilty and that it must stem from knowing we didn't try hard enough to breastfeed.

As I said, surely there is a better way of encouraging women to breastfeed.

the_queen

01-08-2006, 18:09

I don't consider all those things to be "scare tactics'. I consider it to be information - take it or leave it. I FF Vallerie. But it doesn't mean I feel the need to stick up for formula-feeding.

tickle

01-08-2006, 18:11

Sorry Chelle. :hugs:
I really wish I knew what the answer was.:(

JorBai

01-08-2006, 18:23

Pippi Longstocking

01-08-2006, 18:37

We (FF mothers) do get the scare tactics of how we are making our children sick, giving them health problems as adults, causing food allergies, asthma, eczema etc. We get the guilt trips of if we loved our children enough we would have kept breastfeeding no matter what. And when we say the guilt word, we get told that there is no reason for us to feel guilty and that it must stem from knowing we didn't try hard enough to breastfeed.

That certainly wasn't my experiece as a formula feeding mum. Quite the opposite, actually. Not one person discouraged me from feeding my son formula. I wish it hadn't been the case, I know there was nothing wrong with my milk and my son was merely in the middle of a growth spurt, yet all the support to FF made it fa too easy to just give up breastfeeding. If I could just go back again and know what I know now....:rolleyes:

Areca

01-08-2006, 18:48

Probably not as that would throw doubt on the results of research. Statistics can show what ever you want them to show if you are trying to prove something.

Yes but bf babies are in the same environments so I really don't see how other factors have anything to do with it. They aren't saying if you ff your baby will get sick, they are saying they are more at risk...formula doesn't contain antibodies. That's a fact. (and I wanted to quote what you quoted too but it didn't come up...this was directed at the topic, not you personally fwiw)

Areca

01-08-2006, 18:59

Im 100% with chelle here. I too fully support bf but was unsuccessful this time around. Please all you successful BF mothers- try to see this from our angle. We always get treated differently, we get told scare tactics(and that is exactly what they are), we dont get the same support that bf mothers get and all of this is out of our control because contrary to belief "Not all women can breastfeed"

I also dont see any reason why they dont advertise both BF and FF in hospitals. I understand that breastmilk is best for babies but the comment made earlier stating "It would be a sad day when they promote FF in hospitals" please think about how that comment might hurt other FF mums.

Although I had no choice and tried very hard to bf, there are women who choose from word go to FF. Its a sad world we live in when were judged and criticised on how we choose to feed our babies.

For starter's they're not allowed to advertise infant formula so that's why you don't see the posters.

I think the aggressive attitude some health professionals have when it comes to breastfeeding is wrong and they need to just leave it be for trained lactation consultants (nice supporting ones that will help out more than just 'you need to try harder') to handle but I do believe that bf'ing should be promoted more than formula for the simple fact that it is better for baby.
I am not saying formula is bad and that ff mothers should feel bad but I do think more education, and more support would mean more bf'ing mums.

I was so self conscious about bf'ing in public until I saw an ABA poster in a parent's room that showed a woman bf'ing and stated that it was illegal to ask her to stop. That poster, as silly as it seems, gave me confidence and then I only gained confidence to stop covering us up with a wrap when I was surrounded by other bf'ing mums. The posters do help. I'm sure that without that confidence I wouldn't still be bf'ing cause it would be a pita to hide away 7 times a day (that's how many times dd bf's).

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 19:03

That certainly wasn't my experiece as a formula feeding mum. Quite the opposite, actually. Not one person discouraged me from feeding my son formula. I wish it hadn't been the case, I know there was nothing wrong with my milk and my son was merely in the middle of a growth spurt, yet all the support to FF made it fa too easy to just give up breastfeeding. If I could just go back again and know what I know now....:rolleyes:

I think it is great that you received support no matter what you decided to do. If you had received the type of critisms that a lot of us have received, emotions you might have felt might have changed your outlook.

camcat

01-08-2006, 19:06

I found that breast feeding was promoted more at hospital but they where ok if you wanted to bottle feed. I personally prefer to bf but I also believe it is a personal choice. I developed a serious case of mastitis when my ds was only about 3 wks old that developed into an abscess which I ended up having to get surgically removed. While this was healing I was unable to feed from the affected breast and had to alternate bf with ff to make sure ds was getting enough. I was lucky enough to heal well and be able to return to bf after this (which I must say I'm really enjoying), but this could easily have not been the case.
I understand that ideally bf'ing is the best start for a baby but sometimes for various reasons it isn't an option. I think that when it comes down to it the final decision rests with each individual and that people shouldn't be judged either way for making their own choice. I can't believe the amount of times I've had people say "so are you feeding?" and when I've replied yes got the "oh good girl" reply. This can be hurtful to other mums who for various reasons aren't bf'ing and I hope people would take this into account when discussing this issue:)

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 19:21

Yes but bf babies are in the same environments so I really don't see how other factors have anything to do with it. They aren't saying if you ff your baby will get sick, they are saying they are more at risk...formula doesn't contain antibodies. That's a fact. (and I wanted to quote what you quoted too but it didn't come up...this was directed at the topic, not you personally fwiw)

I think it is unclear as to what other factors might affect sickness in babies. It really depends on who did the research, what they were hoping to achieve with the research, who their test cases were and what their lifestyle is like.

My 2 1/2 year old has been sick twice in her life. Once when she was 2 and once when she was only a few weeks old while I was breastfeeding. But of course if we had been part of the research, that wouldn't have been included.

3boyzmum

01-08-2006, 19:48

Unfortunately, I really do believe that the campaign has taken a wrong turn somewhere. Many, many mothers who formula feed have experienced scare tactics and guilt trips which have led to them feeling inadequate and can trigger bouts of depression. There must be a better way of going about it.

This is so true, when my eldest was born it was discovered that I couldn't produce breast milk, instead of getting support I wad subjected to a member of the Australian Breastfeeding Association telling me that my child would die if I didn't bf him, she was so horrible to me that by the time she left I was in tears (and I don't cry over anything) if it wasn't for my mother (who also couldn't bf) who bought formula to the hospital and told the nurses if they let that person talk to me again she'd sue the hospital and all of them personally, Jayjay would have starved because I literally had no milk to give him.

Verdi

01-08-2006, 20:00

I agree with chelle on this one.
I breastfed my first for 12 weeks, then i had to go back to work, so it stopped.
My second i had a very very difficult time!!!!!!!!! I had PND with him and everytime i breastfeed it was worse, my child would feed for an hour then wake up in 2hrs for another feed, Iwas very bad and i never suffer from depression, and to make it worse i was drummed in to breastfeed him!
Then at 10 weeks when i went to see the maternal health nurse, she saw how i had plummeted in weight and looked pretty $h1##y, then i just started crying!!! She asked me what the problem was and i told her that Jayden was just so unsatisified in with my milk, explained what was happening and how everytime i had a let down i was even more depressed. She said to me to stop breastfeeding straight away, i said WHAT!!! She said we don't recommend bottlefeeding but in your interest you need to stop and you will be alot better( she explained to me that with milk let down apparently with PND it makes the depression alot worse and it made sense). So i stopped. That night i did his first bottle OMG he slept 4 hrs!!!!!! and he was so much more happier and so was i . But i was made to feel very guilty!!! I never told people that i suffered from PND, actually this is the first time i have pubicly spoken about it!!! Boy did i get it, your child will get a lot more health problems, etc etc........... You know what both my kids probably only get sick once a year!!!! My SIL's kids were breastfeed till 12 months and they are constantly sick, see how they can twist statistics!!!!!!!!!
I do not regret my decision i instantly became a lot happier because my child was a lot happier!!!!!!!!
I had a new mum come up to me and say i can't handle breastfeeding anyomore, she had pretty much what i had, i looked at her and said you come first if your not up to scratch how can your baby be content, then Someone else butted into the conversation and said oh no you have to breastfeed, it so much better for the baby and it will help you loose weight! I turned to this person and said do you think i have lost all my weight, she said yeh your so skinny do you know that i didn't breastfeed from 8 weeks on! I said she is not coping so don't force her. I saw this mum 1 week after and said guess what i gave up and i feel so much better and so does my baby thank you so much for your advice and i don't feel guilty!

All i can say is that i never judge when i see a mum bottle feed, we just don't know what the circumstances are. I rather see a mum that is happy rather than a mum who is breastfeeding and so depressed and unhappy.

I am also passionate about this.
Third time round i will take it as i go, i might love it or i might have problems but i am not going to be bullied into breastfeeding if i go down the PND path again.
:fingerscrossed:that i don't

Mum&bubs

01-08-2006, 20:05

I have been breastfeeding my DD for 16 months now & people are starting to tell me thats wrong :confused: :confused: I enjoy it (except the marathon feeds at nights) and she doesnt want to give it up so were both happy.
Each to their own i say :D

Tannie

01-08-2006, 20:47

So what if some women just don't enjoy it very much?? For whatever reasons? I think we have to weigh up that Australia is a society where women are encouraged to have choices and are assertive.........so many women do what they really WANT to do and for many - that's stop b/f - we should be happy that women here obviously feel empowered enough to make the choices they want to make......many women go back to work at 4- 6 months and despite all this "oh - you can express at work......" expressing is awful for some and just a bloody hassle for many women............

The thing I don't understand about all this b/f is SO much better business is this - IF it is SO much better for a childs health - then children in country's where b/f is much, much higher SHOULD be much healthier.........right? But are they? I'm talking countries which are comparable to ours - western countries, not 2nd or 3rd world countries.........so European countries for eg - are their kids (and even after they are kids - adults) any healthier then Aussie kids in general?? Not that I am aware! Our relatives in europe's kids seem about the same as kids here - colds, flu's etc during the season etc etc :confused:

I know SO many people who b/f and their kids are no healthier then mine......maybe it's conincidence, but quite honestly -in my lifetime, I haven't noticed that b/f bubs are any more robust then ff bubs - quite the opposite actually........I know SO many b/f bubs who seem forever unwell are underweight and have plenty of health concerns..........

I'm sorry - but whilst I acknowledge there are benefits to b/f (maybe - I'm still not totally convinced) the ONLY actual research that I could find on solid longer term benefits PROVEN in 1st world countries NOT 2nd, 3rd world countries - stated that it could only conclusively be said that b/f for the first 6 weeks made a difference.........after that, the effects were debatable and not at all consistent and there were too many other variables to prove without a doubt that it was the breastfeeding itself that made a difference.

I don't believe that it's an argument that can ever be settled with certainty, as there are just TOO many variables with health status to say that how a child is fed for the first 12 months of life can possibly make a difference to health in 5, 10, 15, 20, 40 yrs time.........to think that we are EVER going to be able to prove without doubt that ONE SINGLE FACTOR makes a big enough difference to warrant exclusively recommending it above all else - is ridiculous IMO.

B/F rates here aren't high after 6 months, because women here have REAL choices and are not prepared to put up with discomfort, physically and mentally for something they obviously don't believe makes such a difference to their baby's life.

I'm sorry - but I get cranky when I constantly hear how b/f isn't encouraged enough, there isn't enough support, there isn't enough information :ecomcity: :ecomcity: Beats me - all I seemed to get was b/f shoved down my throat, information EVERYWHERE I look..............but there was almost NOTHING TO SOURCE about bottle feeding - I had to work it out for myself, as soon as I was using formula NO ONE offered any help at all except for other mums who ff on forums such as these...........:mad:

T

Funkychicken

01-08-2006, 20:49

Let's get those boobies out in public and show people how proud we are!!!!!!:smiliedance:

Tannie

01-08-2006, 20:50

Oh - yep - each to their own I say too! If I ever have another baby - I probably won't bother trying at all past the first few weeks...........I just don't enjoy it......I find it time consuming and such a hassle and I spend most of my time in tears or anxiously thinking about the "next feed" and "how am I going to get through it?"......waking up dreading each day.....planning my entire life around breastfeeding.....I just hated it to be honest.

If you can do it, and you enjoy it and you want to keep going for a few years - by all means - no problems here........

I guess bottom line is - I'm just not convinced it makes much of a difference to my kids health - sorry - but that's just how I feel.
T

Tannie

01-08-2006, 20:57

Oh - interesting about the PND as my experience was exactly the same :crying: I was a basket case and SO depressed until I stopped b/f.........then it was like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders and the entire world "reappeared" for me again :smiliedance:

Several health professionals told me the same thing too - that sometimes PND is worse when the hormones are kept in that lactating state and sometimes, the best thing is to let yourself get back to "normal".......I too used to start to feel a bit balanced, then would feed bubs and the hormone "rush "would just send me off the deepend........it was like this awful warm, seepy, dark cloud coming over my body.....a totally weird feeling. Those "feel good' hormones certainly didn't make ME feel very great!!

It's quite interesting how many women have told me they were constantly depressed when b/feeding - several mums i know and they fed longer then I did. Mind you - I have always been VERY susceptible to hormonal surges, can't take hormonal contraceptives etc for this reason........would be interesting to know if there are links there? wouldn't it?

T

Pippi Longstocking

01-08-2006, 20:58

I just don't enjoy it......I find it time consuming and such a hassle.

Hmm, I'm not that keen on changing nappies....hey, I know!!! I just won't do it! It is sooo time consuming and such a hassle!

After all, happy mum = happy bub right? :rolleyes:

Verdi

01-08-2006, 21:00

Totally agree with you Yetti!!!!!!!
I to will be trying withthis bub, but iam not going to push myself . If i can i can if i can't i can't!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't breast feed as a child and i was no more sicker than other kids who probably were breastfeed, of course breast is best but if you can't then formula is next best!

I will not try to breastfeed because it is well looked upon!!!
I will do it if i can. :yes:
it's hard enough being a mum!!

Norah - that comment is not justified, please bare in mind it is not any easy decision to stop breastfeeding, alot of women do get PND from it.

Tannie

01-08-2006, 21:03

LOL :D Actually - I'm not trying to stir - but I really don't find the whole nappy changing thing much of an issue at all.....I have 2 in nappies and will be for a while yet. Several relatives / friends have asked "are you itching to toilet train # 1?" and I have to admit - I'm not! I couldn't care less! She can stay in nappies for a while yet if she needs to, it's no big issue for me......whatever will be - no rush - if they both end up TT at the same time -so be it :thumbsup:
T

Verdi

01-08-2006, 21:04

Omg Yetti ifound someone who understands about PND and lactating!!! Some mums look at me like i made it up, but after the maternal nurse told me about it i did a humangous research on it myself and it is linked it has to do with hormones that are released while breastfeeding!!!!!!
Honestly i had days that i wanted to leave my baby in the house alone! (and do terrible things to myself)
It was amazing when i stopped breastfeeding, i was so happy and releived and felt normal again!

Pippi Longstocking

01-08-2006, 21:12

I find this topic really sad - really sad that we can't give people the right information because "it makes others feel bad". Feeling bad comes from the action, not from someone pointing out where you may have gone wrong.
I really think we are doing such a disservice to each other if we cannot speak our truth for fear of causing offence, or raising guilty feelings or making others feel bad or any other hogwash.
When people say that extended breastfeeding is revolting and wrong, I don't feel guilty. The issue lies with the other person, not me. I respect their right to voice their opinion because I also have the right to tell them where they are wrong. :p I don't WANT people to pander to me, to agree with all that I say because they don't want me to feel bad.
I just don't get the FFs reaction. Pro breastfeeding comments are just that. They aren't anti ff. It seems that no matter what anyone says, it is immediately taken as formula bashing. I am genuinely not trying to be offensive here, but I really strongly urge those of you that do have such a strong reaction to breastfeeding advocacy to seek some couselling.

flowerpot21

01-08-2006, 21:26

have to second a previous poster - to me aus seems way more into bf than the uk. there, i knew one friend who bf'd and she didnt tell everyone as there seemed to be such an odd attitude towards it. i know when i conceived and told people (this was in uk) that i really wanted to bf (couldnt in the end, long depressing story) and everyone was so surprised. other friends i had were terrified at the idea of being expected to do it when they ahd given birth in hospital; attitude was that it is disgusting and the thought of it made them feel sick. it seems far more normal here.

what i would say however is that lots more ladies here seem to return to work earlier (maybe cos i worked for local government in uk and the maternity leave and payments were great so they didnt have to rush back) and so it makes some sense that the rates of fully and exclusively breastfeeding at 6 months seems to be lower - as one formula feed may have been introduced, some baby rice may have been starter prior to 6 months etc. from the wording of the stats, it seems maybe this is why it seems lower at 6 months.

Kooy

01-08-2006, 21:28

Going on my vast research... within my own mum's group and circle of friends :laughing: :laughing: I'd say that these stats are probably even worse than documented....

I have "demand" b/fed my son exclusively up until about 1 month ago (he was about 10 months) and now only do the morning and night feeds... He has formula in his cereal and in a cup with morning tea/lunch. I'll continue to b'feed until he self weans off the other two feeds - even now he sometimes doesn't want milk before bed...

Within my mum's group... where all bubs are very close if not already turned one.
One is exclusively b'feeding and myself and another lady do it "most" of the time.
This is out of 15 families! Many of them b/fed to start with... but I guess many mum's who go back to work find it easier to use formula.

Verdi

01-08-2006, 21:31

Hold on i am not offended by people who love breastfeeding but there are those who can't and should not be made to feel guilty.

I loved breastfeeding with my first but as i said i had to go back to work fulltime expressing was way to painful and not at all convenient.

PND has been linked to breast feeding for some! For others they have medical conditions that prevent them from breast feeding, i just found out a year ago that i have brain tumour situated on my pituitary gland, i had to go on heavy medication (Dostinex) and do constant MRI's , it has been said that breastfeeding can cause a significant increase in the size of my tumour (my tumour is active), that is why i will take it as it comes, that is also why i am saying you can not be judgemental as nobody knows what the reasons or how a person may feel!
Therefore i would love to know that if a mum sees me bottlefeeding i hope they are not passing judgement on me.:rolleyes:

xkwzit

01-08-2006, 21:31

I was talking to a midwife from Ireland and apprently it is quite UNUSUAL for someone to BF over there. She seemed to think that it had something to do with ppl thinking that breasts were sexual and to BF would be somehow "dirty". She felt v strongly about it and wanted to go back over there and be an LC.

I think a 2 % discrepancy between our BF rate and the world average is statistically unimportant. We (as a country) are doing average, but as mothers we can excel, whatever our choice of feeding :D .

Cheers

RedPanda

01-08-2006, 21:35

I just don't get the FFs reaction. Pro breastfeeding comments are just that. They aren't anti ff. It seems that no matter what anyone says, it is immediately taken as formula bashing. I am genuinely not trying to be offensive here, but I really strongly urge those of you that do have such a strong reaction to breastfeeding advocacy to seek some couselling.

I used to be really sensitive about it, but am heaps better now (maybe less hormones running through me now!). Breast is best, and I totally support continual and vocal promotion of it! I really admire b/f mothers, and I really hope to feed my next bub for a long time. I plan to do a course before the birth of my next bub, and I also plan to see a lactation consultant really early in the b/f relationship. I reckon promotion of b/f is needed, but perhaps there should also be more support offered to mothers after they leave the hospital (which is when I fell in a heap!). That may boost Australia's bf statistics a bit!!!:thumbsup:

Tannie

01-08-2006, 21:39

I find it sad too - cause I'm not anti-breastfeeding either........I just think we should be able to feed how we are most comfortable and recieve support regardless. Just as you say - the assumption is often made that becuase I bottle feed - I don't like to see breastfeeding etc.........not true - I couldn't care less really!! If some woman is sitting in a cafe feeding her bub - breast or bottle...............whatever! makes no difference to me.

I only get annoyed if it's obviously done to raise eyebrows.......which I rarely see - but have suspected OCCASSIONALLY, that it was being done, where, how etc to shock as it just wasn't necessary to be like that......iykwim?

I dunno - until I was a mother - Inever really gave it a lot of thought and had NO IDEA how much politics there was with b/f, bottlefeeding etc!! I naively thought women just did what they wanted to do and was most convenient for them........never realised the levels of stress, guilt, pressure etc there was on women to get it "right" :banghead:

T

*Chels*

01-08-2006, 21:50

xkwzit

01-08-2006, 21:52

Chels
I feel the need to point out that this thread was placed in the Current Affairs section, so the OP was quite deliberatly wanting opinions from both sides.

Please lets all stop jumping to conclusions, everyone calm down. I think it might also help if we avoid generalisations. Keep it nice - or we shut it down.

Cheers

Verdi

01-08-2006, 21:54

Chels21 i don't think anyone was saying Formula is a better option:rolleyes:

*Chels*

01-08-2006, 21:57

Sorry I realise its in current affairs section,its just the same people debating the same thing over and over in the BF threads:)

xkwzit

01-08-2006, 22:02

Actually, getting back to the OP for a minute, I don't really think that not advertising formula is where effort needs to be focussed. My bandwagon is a lack of support in the community to help ppl who have problems.

Honestly I think that more LC, better trained midwives and better followup support will make much more of a difference than protecting and promoting breastfeeding, or adoption of the WHO Code. I don't think you can promote BF to mothers any more than we do now, we need to promote it to the wider community and support new mothers.

Cheers

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 22:04

Verdi

01-08-2006, 22:16

chellegoth As I said previously, I don't have a problem with breastfeeding. What I do have a problem with the the way people go about trying to make women breastfeed. A lot of comments that are made are anti formula and are said to make the women feel bad. This is not contructive, helpful or supportive.
:yelclap::yelclap::yelclap::yelclap:
I support Chelle on this.

SilverStarfish

01-08-2006, 22:25

I love telling people I've been bfing 6 months now, and they're like, "youre STILL feeding him?". :confused:

I've been getting that too, since DD was only 3 months old! She's nearly 5 months now and I'm really thankful that we're still going strong :thumbsup:

Little Gorilla

01-08-2006, 22:32

Some mothers have decided that they want to FF from the start - they don't want to breast feed - no probs at my end if they want to do this - its their body and their baby. Once a mum in this situation has made her mind up, I doubt any advertising she sees is going to change her mind.

What I think the advertising of BF needs to be aimed at is all the mothers-to-be out there that want to BF and assume they will be able to and then run into problems.

Before I became a bubhub member I stupidly assumed that ALL mothers could breastfeed as soon as the bubs was born and it came naturally, no probs etc etc and this just isn't the case - would it be that almost 100% of BF mums have problems and it seems the mums that continue with BF are the ones that have had good support either from family, nurses, LC, doctors etc etc?

Any money for advertising or other extra money that is going to the pro-BF cause should be aimed at the SUPPORT needed to BF not just idealised posters of a beautiful boob feeding a beautiful baby with some stats posted across the ad.

Its not like any mums out there don't know about breast feeding..we all have boobs....- what they don't know and what they aren't prepared for are the problems associated with it.

If the above was done then maybe the % would increase in OZ of bf mothers.

Goosie22

01-08-2006, 22:33

Hi,
When viewing Breastfeeding as the biological norm that it is, the focus is more obviously negative towards Formula as it is not the norm. This then turns the statement " if you breastfeed your baby will be healthier" to " if you Formula feed your baby will be at a higher risk of A,B or C" its to re establish breastfeeding as the normal way you feed a baby in the same way as other health campaigns are focused on the potential damage caused by not doing something like exercise.

I am a pro breastfeeder, I dont like formula companies however I agree formula is a better option to not being fed at all. My problem with the formula companies is that they use the "guilt" card to dupe vunerable mothers into using their products all the time. And many health proffessional do infact promote the use of formula and make unfounded statements about its value in nutrition above Breastmilk these health proffessional recieve lunches and seminars at the courtesy of the formula companies.

spiritedfamily

01-08-2006, 22:34

I know SO many people who b/f and their kids are no healthier then mine......maybe it's conincidence, but quite honestly -in my lifetime, I haven't noticed that b/f bubs are any more robust then ff bubs - quite the opposite actually........I know SO many b/f bubs who seem forever unwell are underweight and have plenty of health concerns..........

I'm sorry - but whilst I acknowledge there are benefits to b/f (maybe - I'm still not totally convinced) the ONLY actual research that I could find on solid longer term benefits PROVEN in 1st world countries NOT 2nd, 3rd world countries - stated that it could only conclusively be said that b/f for the first 6 weeks made a difference.........after that, the effects were debatable and not at all consistent and there were too many other variables to prove without a doubt that it was the breastfeeding itself that made a difference.

T

We can do that, it is rigorous scientific statistal analysis and these facts about the long term effects have been proven.

You are entitled to make a choice not to breastfeed but when covering emotive issues it helps to keep to the facts.

I haven't found breastfeeding is messy after 6 weeks...its not inconvenient its very convenient, always warm milk on tap for as long as the baby and mother chooses.

Little Gorilla

01-08-2006, 22:39

spiritedfamily

01-08-2006, 22:39

Any money for advertising or other extra money that is going to the pro-BF cause should be aimed at the SUPPORT needed to BF not just idealised posters of a beautiful boob feeding a beautiful baby with some stats posted across the ad.

Its not like any mums out there don't know about breast feeding..we all have boobs....- what they don't know and what they aren't prepared for are the problems associated with it.

I totally agree...more help...yes...definately is needed...I ran into problems with my second child, which after the first you wouldn't think would happen but the support in our state has been great and so I was able to hook up with the right people and correct my technique and baby fed till 15mths after that:thumbsup:

RedPanda

01-08-2006, 22:51

GO BREASTFEEDING WEEK!!
And you complain how people critise you for not BF,then you start bashing statistics,research etc and go "my kid was never sick etc etc" like us BFeeders are just wasting our time.Do you know what I mean?
Im damn proud I BF,I never gave up even when it was hard.

You're not wasting your time Chels. You've done really well. I am guilty of being defensive, and in my case (and this isn't to say I'm speaking for all FF mothers), it was because I felt like a failure. Keep bf-ing! You're doing a good job!:thumbsup:

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 22:51

We can do that, it is rigorous scientific statistal analysis and these facts about the long term effects have been proven.

You are entitled to make a choice not to breastfeed but when covering emotive issues it helps to keep to the facts.

I haven't found breastfeeding is messy after 6 weeks...its not inconvenient its very convenient, always warm milk on tap for as long as the baby and mother chooses.

Please point us towards the studies you have seen that have proven the long term effects and who has funded it.

I agree that it is an emotive issue but both sides are guilty of using it to their advantage and sometimes the facts are shaped to fit the point you are trying to make.

You seem like you are one of the lucky ladies who enjoys breastfeeding and found that it fit into your life fine. Not every women has that luck. I absolutely hated breastfeeding, and I was begining to hate my child, the choice to switch to formula was the best choice for my family. It was quite unfortunate that everyone in the medical profession bar one doctor and breastfeeding professionals were disgusted with my choice and cut off all support and I had to endure a barrage of critism which was incredibly nasty. No woman should have to go through that.

Tannie

01-08-2006, 22:51

Yeah - me too - why would we need counselling exactly?????? WTF? See - that's exactly the type of thing that stirs people up!

btw - in both hospitals where i had my babies (opp ends of the state) there was NO information AT ALL about ff - was all b/f info, posters etc. All this advertising for ff........where is it exactly? When I went back for checkups and got to the point where I told them I was now ff......I felt I was basically "off their hands" then, there was no help offered at all, no information to give me, nothing :no:

T

Goosie22

01-08-2006, 23:06

All this advertising for ff........where is it exactly?

They are bared from advertising directly at the new mother (0 -12 months) market, so they canvas GPs and CHN ect with pens, notebooks, stethiscopes and handouts, they want their brand in the door. Offer seminars to Health proffesionals at 5 star resorts about infant nurtition, so when women go to he GP and say which formula is better the GPs say their brand and they give samples. And because they cant advertise they make formula samples available through chemists and the baby clinic sisters at the chemist who weigh the babies give out info about formula. You have to remember their companies are multimillion dollar concerns and we are the target market, there are men and women sitting around all day dreaming up ways to get the formula brand name into our heads and normalise it.

Tannie

01-08-2006, 23:09

We can do that, it is rigorous scientific statistal analysis and these facts about the long term effects have been proven.

If you can show me the ACTUAL research that pertains to a 1st world country with average middle class mums etc.......then I'll believe it. ALL the research i have read bar one Cochrane analysis, was along the lines of "45 women from the community centre in downtown Boston.." or whatever........looking further - a VERY different demographic then the average Aussie, middle class mother and child.

Of course b/f is best ESP if you don't have access to good nutrition, clean water, clean equipment and the ability / education to understand about cleanliness, sterilisation and correct mixing and feeding etc.........in 3rd world countries, I can imagine if you can b/f until your childs at least 4yrs, that would be wonderful and yes - would make all the difference.

Another recent one about intelligence compared less then 50 28 yr old males and yes - the b/f ones had a slightly higher IQ apparently.........but........about 5 points! Now - I've done 3 IQ tests and blimey - my IQ seemed to increase every time i did one - the variation between teh first and last one was 20 points!!! Besides, would 5 IQ points MATTER in life? Pretty safe bet to say that success or failure in life would not be differentiated by 5 IQ points - once your intelligence is "normal" then many other factors (persistence, resilience in the face of adversity etc) play a part in how well one does in life.........:ecomcity:

All I'm saying is this...........sometimes, I get the feeling that avid pro-b/f somehow think that because they b/f their baby, they are producing Einsteins and the rest of us are producing Forest Gumps!! Some people seem to think that if they breastfeed, their child will miraculously turn out to be SUPER everything in everyway.......a superior human being :rolleyes: I'm sorry - but I simply don't believe a lot of the claims made about b/f WITHIN THE AUSTRALIAN CONTEMPORARY CONTEXT......iykwim? There's just a LOT more to good health, emotional wellbeing and parenting overall, then how a child is fed in teh first months of life if you ask me - it makes up such a small part of their overall life once solids are introduced especially.

There are just TOO many variables in life IMO...........honestly - could ANYONE line up 500 individuals in Australia today, between teh ages of 20 and 50yrs, take a brief outline of their health history and say FOR CERTAIN that they can pick the breastfed ones because they are healthier??? Smarter??? Arent' overweight as much??? I seriously doubt it!

T

spiritedfamily

01-08-2006, 23:10

Please point us towards the studies you have seen that have proven the long term effects and who has funded it.

I agree that it is an emotive issue but both sides are guilty of using it to their advantage and sometimes the facts are shaped to fit the point you are trying to make.

You seem like you are one of the lucky ladies who enjoys breastfeeding and found that it fit into your life fine. Not every women has that luck. I absolutely hated breastfeeding, and I was begining to hate my child, the choice to switch to formula was the best choice for my family. It was quite unfortunate that everyone in the medical profession bar one doctor and breastfeeding professionals were disgusted with my choice and cut off all support and I had to endure a barrage of critism which was incredibly nasty. No woman should have to go through that.

My husband did undergraduate studies on this; regarding multinational companies penetrating first and third world countries, extoling the virtues of their baby feeding products and how much better off we all would be if we bought nestle's & other companies products. The UN concluded in one study that the worst thing that could happen to third world countries would be a social dependance on baby feeding products leading to an overall economic decline for families involved in buying products with no demonstratable benefit over free breastmilk. The UN concluded that breastmilk provided antibodies during the first critical 6 wks of life.
I shall hunt up my husbands work to find the report.

I'm not lucky, I worked hard at succeeding in my breastfeeding efforts especially with DD 2 and I learn't to like it as my technique improved. I sort out a lactation consultant to help me correct my method...it took 6 weeks of expressing and training bub to feed correctly and it did come out her nose alot. I did suffer from depression and was very exhausted but persisted as my desire to bf was stronger than my desire to give - up...thats no luck!!

Tannie

01-08-2006, 23:18

Ummm.........Goosie - i've worked in healthcare for 15 + yrs and even with GPs.......I've yet to see all this advertising taking place? No GP surgery I've been in lately has had any formula posters up or ?? I've never heard of any of the GPS I've worked with being invited to 5-star conferences held by FF companies??

have you actually attended any of these? know for a fact it happens here in Australia SO much that it affects GPs advice?? Both my GPs after I had my bubs were avid Pro-b/f......the first one a 55 yr old male (who urged me to continue as much as he could.....really! Truly!!) and my now GP is actualy on maternity leave herself but we discussed b/f and she was obviously PRO - big time! HOWEVER, I hdo have to say that both those 2 + another one I saw recently with my PND - took a balanced approach and agreed that for me - FF would be best and they wer happy to support me in that if that's what I needed to do to be happy etc.

I wish everyone would STOP blaming the "bad doctors" too :mad: I have found almost all doctors I encounter support b/f BUT are intelligent and understanding enough to realise, it's not for every woman and are supportive of womens choice in this matter. This is what I would expect from my doctors - to take a balanced view - let me know their opinion, but also listen to ME and support my decisions adn then help me with it.

My first GP actually said "well - I don't have anything for you - if you need help with FF, then you should perhaps ring the number on the side of the can of X formula and I'm sure they will have heaps to help you!"..............

T

Tannie

01-08-2006, 23:20

The UN concluded in one study that the worst thing that could happen to third world countries would be a social dependance on baby feeding products leading to an overall economic decline for families involved in buying products with no demonstratable benefit over free breastmilk. The UN concluded that breastmilk provided antibodies during the first critical 6 wks of life.

I agree completely....100% ! But 3rd world..........that's not us is it?
T

spiritedfamily

01-08-2006, 23:21

Cost is cost...first or third world

Ana Gram

01-08-2006, 23:54

My husband did undergraduate studies on this; regarding multinational companies penetrating first and third world countries, extoling the virtues of their baby feeding products and how much better off we all would be if we bought nestle's & other companies products. The UN concluded in one study that the worst thing that could happen to third world countries would be a social dependance on baby feeding products leading to an overall economic decline for families involved in buying products with no demonstratable benefit over free breastmilk. The UN concluded that breastmilk provided antibodies during the first critical 6 wks of life.
I shall hunt up my husbands work to find the report.

I'm not lucky, I worked hard at succeeding in my breastfeeding efforts especially with DD 2 and I learn't to like it as my technique improved. I sort out a lactation consultant to help me correct my method...it took 6 weeks of expressing and training bub to feed correctly and it did come out her nose alot. I did suffer from depression and was very exhausted but persisted as my desire to bf was stronger than my desire to give - up...thats no luck!!

Ok, interesting research but I asked for the studies that showed the proven long term health effects for formula fed babies.

I too sort out help and found no-one who was willing to listen to me. You were lucky in the fact that you were able to find someone who could assist you.

meoneo

02-08-2006, 00:23

I think it is such a personal thing bf
In the end we are all trying to do what is best and right for us and our little one so no one should be judged.
I got mastitis too but feed through it OUCH
and am still feeding DS at nearing 8mths i am a bit sick of it but he is really clingly at the moment and seems to be really needing it more for comfort then food :laughing:

Beany

02-08-2006, 00:35

My father-in-law is a GP and while we have literally hundreds of pens and notepads from drugs companies ranging from Amoxycillin to Viagra, I have yet to see a Karicare pen or pad. Nor has he been invited to a 5 star conference extolling the virtues of formula feeding. He has not received leaflets nor samples of the formula. He certainly does not advertise any brand of product to his patient.

There appears to be a lot of false information propagated about these companies, probably in large part due to the sense of moral outrage felt by some regarding the actions of Nestle in third world countries. But just as the ethics of Nestle become suspect due to their behaviour, the misinformation given by the pro-breastfeeding camp is making their position suspect, too.

Tannie

02-08-2006, 05:46

Well said Beany........me too! I've met reps for just about everything in healthcare known to mankind over the years........I've yet to even see a position advertised for a "GP" or "Health" rep for one of the formula companies........it could be a job I'd be good at too:laughing: ;) so I keep a lookout in the papers!!

I thought that scandal with the formula companies (Nestle in particular) happened about 20 yrs ago - I think it was early to mid 1980's wasn't it?

Goosie - I'm yet to even HEAR of a real case of a Child Health Nurse or Maternal and child Health nurse who pushed formula? do they exist? From my experience, some of the CHN's are the most avid pro-breastfeeders on the planet and give some new mums a very hard time if they don't want to b/f. Certainly the ones I have seen have been very pro-b/f and I've seen them at several different locations and personally know quite a few........they usually have b/f posters and ABA info all over their offices.....as does my paed, GP, hospitals etc.

Look - I too think that if the ABA and pro-b/f lobby were a bit less hysterical and more realistic in their claims and spent more $$ and time actually helping women when they are new mums or for several months - instead of subtly making women who have trouble and give up feel like failures........then the rates MIGHT increase. BUT I also think the reality is, that many of us just don't enjoy it and don't believe that it makes enough difference after the initial months to warrant "perservering" through our own discomfort and misery..........some women DO want to persist and seem to have an incredible committment to it and in the end, DO succeed - good on them I say :yelclap:

But for many of us - we give it a go - a pretty fair go I felt I gave it......I hated it, bubs wasn't happy and family life was not good, social life non-existent. I didn't want to go anywhere for fear of having to b/f away from home cuase it was so difficult for us.........just a total disaster zone really! The day I gave a bottle of formula - was the day I actually started to enjoy my baby and being a mother..........does this make me a bad person? Less committed to my child? A slacko? some have told me it does and a less confident woman might have been totally devastated at some of the things that have been said to me..........but I don't regret it now.......I had no hesitation putting #2 on formula when things didn't work out.
T

elissas

02-08-2006, 07:15

I would go as far as to say if they try to push BF'ing the wrong way then they do more damage than if they didn't push it at all. I strongly believe that of my friends who ff their babies, they would have all continued bf'ing past the month or so that they did, if they hadn't have been so stressed about it.

One friend was so stressed about it because she felt the midwives bullied her. She couldn't relax from the very first feed. After 3 weeks I found her and bubs crying one afternoon because there was no milk, and she had really wanted to bf. She's due with no2 in a month and I've been showing her some relaxation techniques, as she still really wants to bf.

Stressed Mum = Stressed Milk = No Milk

I was lucky that I knew to relax above all else. And I used visualisation techniques while feeding for the first few weeks.

And I also agree that people need to be educated on extended bf'ing though. I get weird looks in the parents rooms, because DS is 7mths!! :eek:

Has anyone else noticed that parents rooms also only ever seem to have chairs with big arms that only have room for small bubs, not any older than about 3mths? I must look a treat, sitting side saddle with my legs hanging over the chair arm!!!!:thumbsup:

Pippi Longstocking

02-08-2006, 07:18

I only get annoyed if it's obviously done to raise eyebrows.......which I rarely see - but have suspected OCCASSIONALLY, that it was being done, where, how etc to shock as it just wasn't necessary to be like that......iykwim?

That is a bizarre thing to say! How on earth could breastfeeding a child be done to raise eyebrows? Maybe if the mum had tassles on her nipples and spun them a few times to entertain the baby before a feed?

And yes, there most definitely are CHNs out there pushing formula. I realise an anecdotal personal experience isn't the best way to back up an argument ;) but you did say you were yet to hear of one. Oh, and the GP too - both told me that I was "losing" my milk (it's a hard thing to misplace, not quite sure where I lost it....) and that I had to offer my son formula. I stupidly took their advice because the pressure to FF was so great! Not one person encouraged me to keep trying to breastfeed. And yep, I got free samples of formula from the baby clinic and the lady in the pharmacy was more than happy to go over which brands were better, which bottle would be the best, which teat to use etc.

Areca

02-08-2006, 07:48

yep I had my first visit to a CHN two weeks ago..first thing she did was tell me I had too much milk and was filling dd up too much (wtf?), then told me I didn't have enough milk and then once I put her in her place for that she told me that when dd is 1 I can put her on toddler formula...never even asked if I planned to bf past one or anything.

I have bf everywhere I go but never do it to cause attention..if DD is hungry I feed her, I'm not about to run off and hide cause someone might think I'm doing it to attract attention.

*~alegna~*

02-08-2006, 08:01

Hi everyone,

Thought I'd put my 2bob in :D

I have just had my little boy, he is 8 week old now but was 3.5 weeks early. He was a good weight for prem but still didn't want to suck.

The midwives tried but in the end he ended up in SCN for 5 days tube & BF Alternating. In the end there was such a stigma places on "The shape & size of my nipples & Breast" especially my R side. He refused to latch to that side. I guess becasue they kept telling me to not worry & use left only. He would trow his head back as a result not getting enough off only one side.. I was as full as a cow & had to express. In the end I was so exhausted trying to keep up with expressing, feeing him & preparing formula as a sup feed, I lost the plot.

He is FF fully now & doing fine however, it still didn;t make me feel like Mother of the Year

I agree that BF should still be encouraged as we wouldn't have Breasts or milk for that matter if it weren't the best thing. I think we just need better CONSISTANT information from the Maternity community.

I will definatley be trying again with our #2 bubba. Hopefully with better results!.

Cheers

x Angela

GirlGerms

02-08-2006, 08:59

Sydney, 27 July, 2006 - Australia lags behind the rest of the world with breastfeeding. Only one in three Australian mums continue to breastfeed babies until six months of age - well under national health recommendations and world average breastfeeding rates.

I think we have our government to blame. Elsewhere in the world, where 3 months maternity leave was standard in the 80's, mothers are now on 90% of their normal income for their 12 months maternity leave.

The way we're going in Australia (backwards), we will never get paid maternity leave, let alone 12 months.

Until this happens, a lot of mothers will need to go back to work after their standard 3 months and thus will be unable to breastfeed for any longer than three months.

Tannie

02-08-2006, 09:01

Interesting tosay the least! I wonder what state those of you who have had poor experiences with CHNs come from? If it is a particular area of Australia or just a bit "hit-n-miss"? I'm truly surprized at that and wonder how common it is - cause I've got several friends who are CHNs and I know the course they do very much pushes b/f as the best etc............:confused: I don't doubt your stories AT ALL - and am quite disappointed actually that that still occurs........:thumbsdown:

My statement in relation to doing it to draw attention is when I have seen (VERY occassionally I admit) - such as in 1 case I distinctly recall, a woman, sitting facing the busiest part of a coffee shop (when there WERE much more peaceful and comfortable places to sit at that time) undoing her top and VERY slowly it seemed, getting her bub organised whilst her breast & nipple clearly showing to all and sundry walking by. Whilst I just thought it looked kinda bizzare and funny......I could see that others going by and sitting near her were shocked.....she looked over at the table next to her where an older group were sitting and gave them a VERY "you say anything and I'm going to bite your head off" look:eek: Her bub would have easily been 6 months or older and when put to the breast was on in a split second, hence, my only conclusion, given the circumstances is that she WANTED to make a point to everyone that she could breastfeed where ever she liked and didn't care about anyone else around her.

This WAS several years ago now (about the time that Kate Langbrock caused a stir by b/f on The Panel) but at the time - I just thought it really silly and I still do. did nothing for the b/f cause and just was trying to inflame......obviously :mad:

T

Pippi Longstocking

02-08-2006, 09:17

See Yetti, it's all in the perception. If I had've been in a cafe and a mother did the same thing that you just described, I would think "aww, that mummy is giving her baby booby, how lovely".
And if it was an attention seeking stunt, good for her. Maybe she too is sick of people judging her for doing the best for her baby?

spiritedfamily

02-08-2006, 09:25

Why are we looking for someone to blame. Where is the personally responsibility? I ended up paying for help! its out there but like any service - it does cost you and I would do it again.

If experience of the health system is so negative, has anyone felt the conviction to really find someone who can help, like hire a lactation consultant. I'm not sure about others but I think the next generation is where we can as mothers help...Even if some of you had to FF, I hope you feel you can attempt to help your girls find the correct help. What do we want the next generation of girls believing? I feel its the same in regards to childbirth, are we teaching them early enough that its not something to fear, that it is natural. I guess this line of thought entails a whole array of issues, like body issues etc...
but really...we are the educators of the next generation, have we thought about what we want them to believe in?

Areca

02-08-2006, 09:29

Yetti I'm from NSW if that helps you out at all with the CHN stuff. The CHN that came to see me at the house also gave me wrong information about bf'ing (only need to feed every 4 hours, can eat everything and anything...not true in all cases and not true for us...DD still only has one 4 hour gap during the day between bf's).

As far as that one person you saw...I agree with Norah on that one. Bf'ing mums get asked all the time to not judge and make assumptions about bottle feeding mum's so maybe bottle feeding mums shouldn't judge and make assumption's about the way a mother breast feeds.

*~alegna~*

02-08-2006, 09:34

Bf'ing mums get asked all the time to not judge and make assumptions about bottle feeding mum's so maybe bottle feeding mums shouldn't judge and make assumption's about the way a mother breast feeds.
Today 09:25 AM

It is sad that we are so hard on each other. We should be supporting each other instead. At the end of the day there is no Manual for Motherhood & the more information & support we get & give the better off we will all be:hugs:.

I think we can all agree that our children take pride of place & no matter any difference of opinion - We all want the absolute best for them.

x Ang

bigglet

02-08-2006, 09:41

I was a formula fed baby - my mother didn't like breastfeeding so I never really got the benefits of mummy milk but 30 years on (like many others) I'm still here but I don't know whether my health would be any different to a breastfed person.

Having said that... I do breastfeed my nearly 6 month old and it was hard. Breastfeeding while normal may not be easy and it is a skill that needs to be taught to both mothers and babies (unfortunately some of them don't have the latching skill like baby animals do!) :laughing:
The first 6-8 weeks was very hard for me, with many long sleepless nights (it can take up to an hour to breastfeed a newborn!) but I really wanted to do it so I sought a lot of support with many visits to the breastfeeding clinic and seeing lactation consultants. I am very lucky that there is a lot of support out there - during one visit my baby was the oldest (being nearly 2 months) but the LC was very supportive and said that it didn't matter how old the baby was, she was just proud that I came to persist rather than give up.

However.... obviously breastfeeding may not be for everyone and if both mother and baby are getting stressed out then FF is the next best thing. Everyone needs to do what is best for themselves and for their baby.

I also get comments from people who are surprised that I still breastfeed my baby - I get comments like "Still breastfeeding? Shouldn't she be on the bottle by now?!?!" Even though my little one attends childcare a few days a week I still come in to bf her.
Have to say - both my DH and myself have come down with coughs, colds and conjuntivitis for the last month and the only person who hasn't been sick is little bub!! My personal reasoning is because she is getting all the antibodies through me - that's one of the benefits of mummy milk that can never be reproduced in any supplement.

I guess we all get judged on what we do no matter if it is breastfeeding or formula feeding. Go figure. :p

Verdi

02-08-2006, 09:47

Who honestly cares, is it such a crime to Breastfeed or not!!!!!
Bottle feed or breastfeed in the end the child will grow up healthy and well cared for. ( to say that only breastfeed babies will not get Asthma, or other illnesses is a bunch of baloney! Environmental and genetic factors play a huge role in our kids well being) My sister was breast feed till 2years old, and she is always sick! I am not at all saying the FF is better, it is OBVIOUS that breastfeeding is the better way but why make mums who cannot, for whatever reasons feel guilty!!!
Gees guys it's not child abuse to not breastfeed, and please do not go on about ohhh i got PND and got over it with determination i put my childs interest first, because every situatioon is different!

*~alegna~*

02-08-2006, 09:48

:yelclap: Candyn :hugs:

gremily

02-08-2006, 09:52

Wow, I had no idea this subject would turn into the debate it has.

For those of you wondering why there is no ff advertising:

What is the WHO Code?
It is an international set of rules designed to protect babies, parents and health professionals from harmful marketing of all breastmilk substitutes. More than 70 governments around the world have all or many of the code's provisions as law.
Some of the main points of the code include:
no advertising of breastmilk substitutes
no free samples or free or low cost supplies
no promotion of products through healthcare facilities
not idealising artificial feeding on labels
no contact between infant formula marketers and mothers
The code applies to both companies and governments. Although Australia was one of the original signatories of the Code, manufacturers and retailers in Australia continue to market effectively to parents.

What are we doing in Australia?
At the moment Australia has not implemented the full WHO Code, despite being a signatory to it.
In 1992 the Australian government implemented its own code called the 'Marketing in Australia of Infant Formulas: Manufacturers and Importers (MAIF) Agreement', commonly called the MAIF Agreement.
It applies only to manufacturers and importers of infant formulas (retailers are excluded) and only covers infant formulas (not other milk products such a follow-on milk for toddlers, or feeding bottles and teats).
The MAIF agreement is a voluntary agreement between the Australian Government and the Infant Formula Manufacturers Association of Australia and is not legally binding. Not all infant formula manufacturers have signed on to the MAIF agreement and there is no legal requirement for them to do so.

I am pro bf, but ff is the far better option than letting your child starve. My bestfriend bf for 3 mths but just couldn't get into it, so she went to ff. Although I didn't agree with it, I supported her 100%, because if we don't have support (especially from those we love) raising an unhealthy baby becomes inevitable.
I agree that more support and information should be given to expectant mothers.
In my mother's group (about 10 of us), only the majority bf to about 6 wks, then went to ff, while only 2 of us are still bf (almost 12 mths). I live in Innerwest Sydney where most mum's go back to work within 6 mths, big incomes, huge mortgages, etc, so ff has its advantages for them. Not me though, I can't imagine going back to work, even in the next few yrs!:crying:

Tannie

02-08-2006, 10:21

Bf'ing mums get asked all the time to not judge and make assumptions about bottle feeding mum's so maybe bottle feeding mums shouldn't judge and make assumption's about the way a mother breast feeds.

I actually wasn't a mum at the time - several years off it ;) I didn't judge her as such I don't think - I thought the entire incident kind of silly and say what you like -but it was OBVIOUS that she was aiming to shock :devil6: She's only one in a million I know - but I SO wanted to say to her "do you realise that you are just reinforcing to this entire cafe of people, that breastfeeding is about breasts NOT feeding? That you are doing the cause HARM by being so silly?...." but I didn't - I just had a quiet giggle to myself! She wouldn't have even noticed me I don't think!!

I asked the question about the CHNs because over the past few years, whenever I have heard stories about poor quality CHNs, they DO seem to be from NSW.......or maybe that's just because there are so many more of them there? Obviously their professional development is not up to scratch if they are still recommending 4th hrly feeding etc........it's a worry alright! :( No wonder there is such confusion about breastfeeding............:banghead:

Personally - I think the BEST way to support breastfeeding would be to have ONLY LACTATION CONSULTANTS give information on b/f. They should have to do a specially designed accredited course to ensure uniformity of information & education and all hospitals, health centres etc should have one or more on staff OR have access to one quickly...........these people (who ideally should be midwifes and CHNs as well) should do the b/f part of antenatal courses and visit the new mums every day whilst in hospital and then be followed up at home for a solid period of time.

The big problems for me were inconsistency of information and I hated the way midwifes would rush in and just grab a hold of my nipple and shove it in my babies mouth. It gave me such a negative feeling about it - I felt quite invaded and like I had no privacy etc..........everyone told me slightly different things to try........too much information and really inconsistent i guess........then none of it worked for me anyway really!!!

T

Pippi Longstocking

02-08-2006, 10:27

The doctor and CHNs I was referring to were in FNQ.

Tannie

02-08-2006, 10:36

I also wanted to make comment about the whole "no milk....poor quality milk......" type of issues.
I don't think there is such a thing as "poor quality milk" and health professionals saying that is plainly incorrect and VERY bad.....:mad:

However, lack of milk, despite demand feeding etc seems to be a very REAL problem, despite what the ABA and pro-b/f say. Maybe it IS caused by poor technique (such as with me, my 2nd bub jsut wasn't strong enough sucker, so when I got sick with gastro and my supply lowered, she just couldn't keep me going........she would just give up and cry :crying: ) or other fixable issues.......but it certainly DOES HAPPEN and saying it doesn't, just makes women feel very confused and frustrated IMO.

I know personally, myself included, that this IS a very real problem and whilst most times it probably can be overcome (and if one had no other options - such as if I lived in a 3rd world situation or was in a remote area and had no formula or bottles....) through sheer persistence..........there are few of us who want to hear our child cry with hunger for very long. I had it for about 48hrs and it just tore my heart out hearing my little baby sobbing with hunger :crying: Added to this - I was just SO weak and sick myself......my boobs were dry as a bone! I never even had ANY soreness - it just stopped that day and that was that.........I know I could have kept putting her on and comping with formula......but she was SO uninterested once she worked out she wouldnt' go hungry with formula and I remained sick for several days.......

So perhaps my failure of supply was not what some would say "true" - I COULD have persisted and reestablished b/f I'm sure.........but everyone was so much happier, bub thriving and happy.......yes - it WAS the easier option for me and maybe a cop out.....but that's life - I've got 2 small children to look after and my aim was to make my life managable - not a continuing drama, which it was at the time :gloomy:

I have a friend who has her own business - due to the stress involved etc - her milk supply died at 4 weeks.......sure, again, maybe not a "True" failure, as directly related to her circumstances and lifestyle at the time........but a lack of supply, nonetheless and there was little she could do about it at the time, except put him on formula and at least this way people could then help her a lot more.

I support b/ f - but not at the expense of a mothers mental health or at the expense of a baby starving, even for a few days - just not worth it to me.
T

Tannie

02-08-2006, 10:42

Wow Norah - interesting! Cause i'm now in Nth Qld and i have found the CHNs etc here very pro-b/f. So again - seems it might just be the "luck of the draw" eh?
Frustrating :banghead:
Which makes all the more reason to try to STOP "every man and his dog" giving out information and assistance and focus on having KEY people ONLY (i.e Those who have done a specific LC course as I suggested earlier) giving assistance and information IMO.
Have people who accessed the ABA found the information and people consistent??
T

BJelly

02-08-2006, 10:51

I am currently BFing my 17 mth old and it hasn't been an easy journey for me, but it has been rewarding and I'm ambivalent about the day we do our last feed - I'm looking forward to having my body back, but it will also mark the end of a phase in our relationship as mother and baby.

I found that there is more that can be done to help Mum's who want to BF. I had a birth injury that meant I would be house bound for at least a week after discharge from hospital and I asked to see a LC on the first day, unfortunately she didn't choose to see me and I was discharged before her next visit. I had a terrible time getting my DD to attach and stay attached, the midwives would try but most had to spend at least 30 mins before my DD would stay on the breast - so at least I didn't feel to bad if it took me ages to do it - even the "experts" couldn't get her to feed properly.

I got a yeast infection which was mega painful as well as cracked nipples. I got mastitis twice and got an abcess which required surgery. I perservered with the BF despite all this because it was important to me, and because I had great social supports - not specifically about BFing, but I had a good homelife and lots of positivity around me generally. I have been told by GP's (when my own GP wasn't available) that I should consider giving up BF - when I had the yeast infection, because of the pain; and again when my DD was one year old, because she could become nutritionally deficient - he had no reason to say this as my DD has always been a very healthy, active, vibrant child. Also when I went to hospital for my abcess my Dr's knew I was keen to continue BFing, but they said that the antibiotics were incompatible with it. I saw my GP a few days later and she checked and the AB's were fine - I went through all the hassle of learning how to FF for no reason. I felt that all my hard work, and it was very hard work to persevere with BFing was totally undermined because of laziness on the part of the Dr's.

That said, I am saddened that there is not more understanding for Mum's who physically can't BF, or have social pressures like returning to work which make it very difficult, or who have negative emotional/hormonal responses to BFing which lead to depression and the like. These are real responses and issues that deserve to be heard and understood. It does no one anygood (especially not their baby's) to make Mum's feel guilty or less than any other Mum because BFing wasn't an option.

I agree with posters who say that it is better to be a happy and healthy Mum who FF rather than a Mum who can't cope/ depressed who because she BFs.

At the end of the day we need to have accurate information to make informed decisions and we need to have individualised care when it comes to helping mums BF or FF. All too often it sounds like we are at the mercy of health professionals who have a bias towards one or the other pushed onto us poor Mum's.

hippee

02-08-2006, 12:19

I
I agree with posters who say that it is better to be a happy and healthy Mum who FF rather than a Mum who can't cope/ depressed who because she BFs.

At the end of the day we need to have accurate information to make informed decisions and we need to have individualised care when it comes to helping mums BF or FF. All too often it sounds like we are at the mercy of health professionals who have a bias towards one or the other pushed onto us poor Mum's.

I agree 100%

Ana Gram

02-08-2006, 12:58

Why are we looking for someone to blame. Where is the personally responsibility? I ended up paying for help! its out there but like any service - it does cost you and I would do it again.

If experience of the health system is so negative, has anyone felt the conviction to really find someone who can help, like hire a lactation consultant.

Not everyone can afford private lactation consultants. I certainly couldn't. It has nothing to do with conviction. I don't know if it is your intention but you seem to be coming across with the all too familiar attitude of "you didn't try hard enough".
I perservered for 6 weeks and exhausted all help options available to me. Unfortunately, like so many families, we simply could not afford to hire a lacation consultant. Some new mothers don't even know they exsist.
Life is rarely simple and there are lots of variables that affect people's choices.

twinkles

02-08-2006, 14:53

I completely support the choice of any mother when it comes to breast or bottle feeding. If possible, I would always encourage breastfeeding, but for many it is not possible, not convenient (work etc) or not comfortable and ALL Mums should be given support and understanding, whatever their choice.

I have always breastfed, first one 14 months (I weaned due to Drs recommending it as I was pregnant), second 11 1/2 months (weaned herself), and the third was still having nightime and occasional comfort feeds at 3. Boy did I get some interesting comments/looks after the munchkins turned 1!!!! :rolleyes:

I am a great supporter of breastfeeding as a comfortable (for me), natural, cheap, healthy and easy option. Having said that though, I am sometimes offended by the masses of breastfeeding propaganda in family health centres, hospitals, doctors surgeries etc. I think that though it should be recognised as the 'optimum' feed choice for babies, it should not be exclusively mentioned. My sister in law came from a family of 'bad cows' as she put it and never breastfed as her Mother, Aunties, and 3 sisters had not been able to maintain a milk supply. She was traumatised by the lack of caring, rude and thoughtless comments she received from nursing staff, the maternal child health nurse and many on the sidelines. She still suffers from low self esteem when it comes to parenting. Her boys have always been healthy children, yet almost a decade later it still hurts her. I think that sometimes people get carried away in a 'cause' and forget that parents are extremely vulnerable, especially when they have just given birth and that it will do more harm to the child in the long run if they have a non functioning parent than a bottle :mad:

Sarie

02-08-2006, 15:13

GO BREASTFEEDING WEEK!!
Im sorry but I actually got quite angry about some peoples posts here.
Formula feeders always seem to jump on the bandwagon whenever you see a breastfeeding thread.If you hate the way people treat you for FF,feel guilty etc etc,why do you come into the breastfeeding threads???
And you complain how people critise you for not BF,then you start bashing statistics,research etc and go "my kid was never sick etc etc" like us BFeeders are just wasting our time.Do you know what I mean?
It gets my goat.Ok so you didnt Bfeed,but dont go on about how it isnt that great and formula is just as good.
Im damn proud I BF,I never gave up even when it was hard.
Oh and I think the main reason I stuck with BF is because I never even knew formula was an option and BF is so highly encouraged in NZ.So I think to put up posters of FF mums in hospitals is not a good idea to boost BF!
Ok thats my vent over.I guess now I should hide:o

There are also plenty of BF people who come in to ff threads aswell.
I do not feel guilty at all. All I said is that there should be equal support for those who bottle feed as we can also have troubles and need people to talk to.
As for another comment about bottle feeding posters on hospital walls. When I said you only ever see Breast Feeding posters I was refering to the fact that I feel there is plenty of Pro Breast Feeding posters/advertisement in hospitals in Doctors surgeries. I wasn't saying the walls should be covered in pro bottle feeding.
I find it sad that we cannot all support each other. There are those that think if you can't Breast feed well you're not trying hard enough and your a bad parent, poisoning your child. How about we all be there for each other you do what you can do for you child.
Lets drop the one upmanship of 'I'm so much better than you' and give everyone the support they deserve for being a mother.

meme

02-08-2006, 15:17

i agree with sentiments that have been touched on regarding promoting breastfeeding to expectant mums and the wider community, :yes:

it is not fair to tell mums that they must breastfeed, but then leave them in a society where they do not have supportive work places and they are still being told inconsistent breastfeeding information.

yetti, my experience with the ABA has been wholly positive:thumbsup:

there has been calls for studies that show the importance of breastfeeding for industrialized nations. this is a study from spain, i think you will find their methodology good.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/reprint/118/1/e92

the results that seemingly 100% full breastfeeding among 4mth infants would avoid hospital admissions in infants under 12mths by 56% is quite a significant finding. i would think that this would make breastfeeding "worth it".

i know all mums here are striving to be the best they can be as mothers and in the long run how you feed your baby is just one small part of mothering:) .
on a bigger picture scale i think improving breastfeeding rates is important for many reasons, saving money, the environment and babies lives and empowering women. it needs to be done sensitively and in a way that all mothers feel supported.

happy mumming

Sarie

02-08-2006, 15:19

i know all mums here are striving to be the best they can be as mothers and in the long run how you feed your baby is just one small part of mothering:) .

How true:D

bigglet

02-08-2006, 15:21

cheezelkat

02-08-2006, 15:29

I had a lot of help, and never payed for a thing in learning to breastfeed. I found the support from my local breastfeeding clinic amazing.

Ana Gram

02-08-2006, 15:47

The breastfeeding support clinic is actually a free service (covered by medicare). Most maternity hospitals offer this service and you can check in for half a day, a full day or have a private appointment with a lactation consultant and it's free. Places do tend to book out quite quickly but there are always cancellations so you may be able to get an earlier appointment. I visited them a fair bit and they were always nice and supportive.

I had private consultations with lactation consultants during my delighful stay at hospital. Not one of them was helpful, one even threatened to not let my baby leave the hospital.
I actively looked for help and found none. It is fantastic that some of you were able to find the help you needed easily but there are a lot of women like me who didn't. This is where the major problem comes in. And this is something that would need to be fixed if breastfeeding rates are to lift in this country,

Milly

02-08-2006, 15:47

That's strange...When i was pregnant with DS1 in the UK, i was told that Australia was one of the best countries in the world for breastfeeding rates! The rate in the UK is apparently quite low....I was the only person i knew who continued feeding after 3 months :eek:

Australia has one of the highest breastfeeding intiation rates, but after that it plummets. At 4 months plus, it is in the minority.

OscarTheGrouch

02-08-2006, 15:50

There are also plenty of BF people who come in to ff threads aswell.

Isn't that the truth. I've seen numerous statements on the FF thread, including "your baby could die, could be unintelligent, could have diabetes and asthma...etc..... because you are FF your baby".:shame:

bigglet

02-08-2006, 15:55

I had private consultations with lactation consultants during my delighful stay at hospital. Not one of them was helpful, one even threatened to not let my baby leave the hospital.
I actively looked for help and found none. It is fantastic that some of you were able to find the help you needed easily but there are a lot of women like me who didn't. This is where the major problem comes in. And this is something that would need to be fixed if breastfeeding rates are to lift in this country,

That is terrible and I'm sorry you had such a bad experience :(

It really does depend on the person, LC and individual case - some are worse than others. I do remember a certain midwife who I didn't like and she kept grabbing my boob/nipple with her cold hands when she saw I was having difficulties - every time I saw her I would either fake being asleep or say that bubs was doing fine.

Sarie

02-08-2006, 15:58

Isn't that the truth. I've seen numerous statements on the FF thread, including "your baby will be could die, be unintelligent, have diabetes and asthma...etc..... because you are FF your baby".:shame:
Exactly, what's good enough for the goose should be good enough for the gander.

ashika

02-08-2006, 16:05

I breast fed for 2 and half years with Ds1 but sadly i had to stop when i found out i was pregnant with Ds2 .................... now I am bf Ds2 and Ds1 comes and ask's me if he can have boobies ......................... cute............................

To promote bf I racken we should be allowed to bf our bubs in restaurants......... I know there are rooms to go to but still we would love to just sit at the table, feed, eat and chat at the same time....................... I was appolled at what happened to the Katie ( the radio announcer) a few years ago............... if people sitting next to you give you weird looks stuff em....................
thats half the reason some mums prefer giving bottles but those who have tried and couldn't bf ..................... well you should be proud of it............. you did your best for your bubs for trying ........................ ff mums do not feel bad............ there is always a reason behind what decision we make and we all love our bubs very much.................................

Also I do not believe in your baby being sick all the time or having serious illness if you ff............... my friend bf one and ff one and hear this ............ the ff bubs is healthy and bf bubs is always sick................. I mean what's the go with that.......................... so if you ff don't be paranoid.............. as long as they get their tum tums full they are healthy to me........................

Areca

02-08-2006, 16:29

Ashika you are allowed to breastfeed in restaurants etc. It's illegal for anyone to ask you to stop.
For the record I have bf in restaurants and cafe's (dozens of times), in food courts, at the sydney aquarium (while watching the sharks and sting rays swim above us), at the beach, while having a pedicure, during dp's citizenship ceremony, while purchasing make-up in K-Mart (she was in a wrap, the lady next to me thought she was sleeping), in parks...basically anywhere she needed to be bf. I have used mother's rooms as well but if I'm eating and DD is hungry I'm not about to get up and leave to feed her.

And I have no idea if anyone looks at me or not cause I don't pay any attention to them.

SamanthaJane

02-08-2006, 16:30

Perhaps if there was not such a huge amount of pressure faced on mum's about breast feeding, more would succeed, more would feel happy doing it, and it would come more "naturally".

I personally dont see why it is anyone else's business whether you breast feed or formula feed. I mean, i surely don't care whether Harry, Joe, Sally and Sharon take vitamin supliments or eat fresh foods, so why should they care how my baby gets her nutrients?

To be honest, I just don't see why there is even a debate about this topic. We all love our babies and do what we think is best for them. A bottle feeding mum loves her baby as much as a breast feeding mum does. We should all respect one anothers decisions, not cut someone down just because they don't believe the way we do.

Its always "you should have done it longer", "you should have stopped by now", "you shouldnt be feeding that baby formula" etc etc etc etc :ecomcity:

What works for some, does not work for others. Hounding a mother about how she chooses to feed her baby does not help anyone, all it does it aggrivate the whole situation.

Ana Gram

02-08-2006, 16:49

That is terrible and I'm sorry you had such a bad experience :(

It really does depend on the person, LC and individual case - some are worse than others. I do remember a certain midwife who I didn't like and she kept grabbing my boob/nipple with her cold hands when she saw I was having difficulties - every time I saw her I would either fake being asleep or say that bubs was doing fine.

There are far too many of us, both BF and FF mothers who have had awful experiences. I really do think the only way for this to change is having a standard across the board. Perhaps rather that struggling mother having to hunt around for help only to find a chorus of voices contradicting each other, there should be a one stop organisation for everyone. It needs to be a place where women are supported and given helpful information. And if after help is given, the women decides that FF is best for her family situation, support should still continue.

What a dream

kymmy

02-08-2006, 18:20

I was chatting to a mom (!) in the US and she was saying it is essential to go to a breastfeeding class. I have never heard of that here. Though I know ppl see lactation consultants.
Has anyone on bh been to a bf class in Australia?

cheezelkat

02-08-2006, 18:38

They ran them through the antenatal classes at my local hospital, the ABA also run them. They're not compulsory though!

misskittyfantastico

02-08-2006, 18:39

The hospital I went to also ran BF classes.

Goosie22

02-08-2006, 18:42

Ummm.........Goosie - i've worked in healthcare for 15 + yrs and even with GPs.......I've yet to see all this advertising taking place? No GP surgery I've been in lately has had any formula posters up or ?? I've never heard of any of the GPS I've worked with being invited to 5-star conferences held by FF companies??

I have also been in Health Care for quite a few years myself (on and off), and I know that formula companies opperate just as efficiently as drug companies. Nutrica and Wyeth have both been canvasing and offering "inservice on current trends in infant care" and "nutritional advice for infants". The 5 star seminar referes to professional group seminars ect where they have a sponsor for the event. A close friend of mine was at the annual international addoption BBQ and the goodies bag was sponsored by Nutrica and contained a follow on sample of formula. Even just having formula on sale in a cataloge or out the front of a chemist is advertising.

Chellegoth, the ABA is very supportive of feeding decisions and would have helped you decipher formula just as much as Breastfeeding (they dont kick you out just because you're not breastfeeding). The group I used to attend had some formula feeding mothers who got on and talked about their perceptions and ideas on Breastfeeding and parenting issues. I agree with what you said (maybe not in this thread come to think of it) that they should make extra effort to make contact with all mothers and not leave it so up to chance that women will understand what goes on there.

kymmy, yes I have heard of Breastfeeding Classes, the local hospital runs them each week, and they do a special one for young mums under 20 I think (they have there own intensive antenatal classes also) Some ABA groups run them from time to time also.

G:)

JorBai

02-08-2006, 19:13

Isn't that the truth. I've seen numerous statements on the FF thread, including "your baby could die, could be unintelligent, could have diabetes and asthma...etc..... because you are FF your baby".:shame:

Yes so true, was thinking that earlier in this thread but didnt get to writing it.

Ana Gram

02-08-2006, 20:09

Chellegoth, the ABA is very supportive of feeding decisions and would have helped you decipher formula just as much as Breastfeeding (they dont kick you out just because you're not breastfeeding). The group I used to attend had some formula feeding mothers who got on and talked about their perceptions and ideas on Breastfeeding and parenting issues. I agree with what you said (maybe not in this thread come to think of it) that they should make extra effort to make contact with all mothers and not leave it so up to chance that women will understand what goes on there.

G:)

Sorry Goosie, that may have been your experience with the ABA but it certainly wasn't mine. The ABA was one of the places I tried during my trouble with breastfeeding and there were zero help. They were my last point of contact in my effort to keep breastfeeding when I had a severe bout of ezcema. They told me that I should not take drugs as I needed to get rid of it, if I loved my child I would keep breastfeeding and if did go ahead and take the medication against their wishes, it would be my fault when my child got sick. Quite obviously, I didn't feel the need to contact them again and they made my switch to formula VERY easy.

Sheer Bliss

02-08-2006, 20:17

I think that if the ABA/& the Goverment want to promote breastfeeding, they need to go about it in a diferent way, the current approach seems to get many people offside & unnecessarily stressed.
How about 'breast is the best FOOD'! I don't think in can be denied that breast milk provides more than formula can in the way of nutrition/antibodies. BUT a baby also needs stable parents & a warm, safe, loving environment to thrive. IMO they need to focus more on providing the right overall environment for a happy healthy baby, and in some cases this won't include breastfeeding. If you are in such a state over breasfeeding that you end up with severe PND then clearly breast is not best in your situation.
To be honest, more people stress about breastfeeding than need to. I had poor supply from around 4months, which i blame on stress from an anxious & pushy MIL who kept telling me to give my baby a bottle. Once i learned to let go of the stress my supply increased & bubs was happily b/f for longer (although it was very hard to ignore the constant nagging. lol).
Maybe if the advertising focused on creating a 'less stress' happy mum, happy dad, happy baby attitude then more people would have success with b/feeding as they would realise that the pressure is no longer there.

Tannie

02-08-2006, 20:18

Fair enough Goosie! If it's there then it is I guess - just I've never noticed it.........however, wouldn't it be a GOOD thing that FF companies are sponsoring an adoption BBQ event? I mean-those adopting would have to FF - so this seems a logical synergy to me........wouldn't that be a pretty legitimate market for them to pursue?

I guess - what I can't understand also is this "the formula companies are SO EVIL" vibe........they make a legitmate product, which is used worldwide and saves millions of babies lives....they've done and continue to do heaps of research into their formulas and improve on them all the time.

So really - why shouldn't they market their product, just as any other business does? It's a similar argument with the ole "stop junkfood advertising".........this is a capitalist democracy, we're all offered education and have choices.....it's up to people to make up their own minds what they & their family eat and drink........all business's are in business to make a profit and anyone who can't see that or accept that needs to have a serious reality check IMO :laughing:

I couldn't believe that people critisized formula companies for donating formula for Tsunami victims when that happened :confused: I mean.......what the?? They were trying to help like every other company that donated their products (and of course, hopefully, gain a bit of good PR and milage out of it!! ) and thousands of babies would have not only been seperated from their mums BUT also mums would have been in very poor shape, so I can't imagine their b/f supplies would have been great anyway - poor ******** :no:

It's this type of silly, petty, naive and idealistic and downright illogical carry-on that irritates me no end with much of the "pro" lobby. If they just focussed their attention on supporting women in their feeding choices (as several posters have mentioned here) spent their time and effort actually DOING hospital visits etc and out and about helping women and stopped worrying SO much about what FF companies are doing etc.........then they just MIGHT have a bit more bloody success overall!!

Honestly - I never contacted the ABA when having difficulties.........why? Cause i'd known ABA "counsellors" through my work and they were not very compromising types of people IMO and I knew I didn't want to encounter anyone like that at such a "fragile" emotionally time for me + several family members and friends have had bad experiences with the ABA people........bought to tears and hassled etc and my sister actually said "whatever you do - if you are having problems DON'T ring the ABA!!" And she successfully b/f twins and 2 others.......she was committed 100% but was still bought to tears by insensitive, bombastic "counsellors" when she had a few problems............:mad:

I dunno - like others -I just find it all so terribly frustrating and annoying - the entire "feeding" THING!!!
T

spiritedfamily

02-08-2006, 20:32

What works for some, does not work for others. Hounding a mother about how she chooses to feed her baby does not help anyone, all it does it aggrivate the whole situation.

I don't think our intentions have been to hound anyone but to air our feelings about the subject and many people have an opinion on this subject because it is a very personal issue. In my everyday life I don't have these discussions with people. I assume forums exist as they are an avenue where people can vent how they feel and possibly even learn about something from someone else's experience and better understand others around them. And there are times from simply talking about it, healing can come and sometimes friendships are formed.:)

SamanthaJane

02-08-2006, 22:29

I don't think our intentions have been to hound anyone but to air our feelings about the subject and many people have an opinion on this subject because it is a very personal issue. In my everyday life I don't have these discussions with people. I assume forums exist as they are an avenue where people can vent how they feel and possibly even learn about something from someone else's experience and better understand others around them. And there are times from simply talking about it, healing can come and sometimes friendships are formed.:)

Sorry, wasnt referring to anyone on here with my comments lol i only read the first post... im way too lazy to read through the whole 11 or 12 pages :o

ashika

03-08-2006, 11:33

Honestly i think this thread should be closed..................... i know everyone is voicing their opinions but a lot of em are getting hurt as well.................

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT WE FEED OUR CHILD ........................... FF IS JUST AS GOOD AS BF , WELL OF COURSE ITS NOT NATURAL BUT THE NUTRIENTS ARE THERE..................... WE ALL LOVE OUR CHILDREN VERY MUCH AND WOULD NOT HARM EM IN ANY WAY.......................... SO IF WE ARE FF ITS OUR CHOICE NO ONE ELSES....................

I'm a breast feeding mum but I wouldn't like to comment on anyone who is ff.......... we all have to make a choice and if wat ever you chose in the end its your child.....................................

faery

03-08-2006, 12:22

thought i'd throw in my 2 cents worth........................

I've been reading this debate with interest. and i think i have been really lucky with both the care I got in the birth centre with teaching me how to breast feed and in my bubba not having any problems with it.

I also don't think we should be afraid of saying "breast is best". it is best. it is how we are designed to feed our babies, and it is the only way they can get our antibodies etc. the AMA, ABA, pediatric associations etc all stand behind this message, that babies should get breast milk for as long as they can.

saying this doesn't mean there is something wrong with having to FF. obviously if there is a problem, mama hates it, baby doesn't want it, there is no milk, there is too much pain or whatever, then FF is the best option for these situations.

formula is great for certain situations because no one is going to let a baby starve if they can't BF. but the bottom line is breast milk is designed to be the best food for babies. saying that it is not judging the mothers who ff, it is just a statement of fact.

MrsMiggins

03-08-2006, 12:45

I was a bit surprised to hear that actually. I would never have thought that Australia's BF rates were low. Most women I know have breastfed & most well past 6 months.

I started out BF & had every intention in the world of continuing to BF regardless - no matter what - until DD was at least 12m old, or for as long as we both wanted to do it. In reality I was unable to BF for very long due to DD being UNABLE to latch properly (no, it was nothing we were doing wrong, she just was not physically able to do it) and was therefore causing me incredible amounts of pain as well as severe & recurrent mastitis. I was eventually faced with the choice of continuing on & quite possibly harming my relationship with both DD & DH, or weaning to formula. I was devestated, but knew what I had to do.

Yes, I felt guilty. I cried the first time I gave my daughter a bottle & felt like a complete failure as a mother.

For mine, I think that they should teach more than the 2 options in antenatal classes. I guess I went into it thinking that you either breastfed, or if you didn't want to do that, then you bottle fed. No-one really emphasised the fact to me that sometimes the problems really are insurmountable & that if that is the case, then you are being the best mum you can be by feeding your baby formula.

My DD is extremely advanced for her age & I now feel no guilt at having fed her on formula.

While I definitely plan on giving the BF another go this time round & will be doing everything in my power to succeed, I will have no qualms at all about switching to formula again if the need arises.

Another thing in the article I was surprised to read is that they believe marketing of formula has contributed greatly to the low breastfeeding statistics. I honestly find this extremely difficult to believe & have to wonder how biased the studies which claim this are. I personally have never seen any advertising of infants formula! In any case, I think that if someone did see formula advertised I doubt that would influence a woman who was currently successfully breast feeding her baby to think "Wow, that never occured to me! Perhaps I'll start feeding my bub on formula!"

jackieb76

03-08-2006, 15:30

Here's hoping that we can keep this nice so that it doesn't have to be closed.

I can honestly say that I have been on both sides of this situation.

With my first daughter I practically knew nothing about breastfeeding and never bothered to do any research or talk to other mothers about it. I just thought that it was something that would come totally naturally and that bub would know exactly what to do when the time came, how very wrong I was!

When my daughter was born and given to me (I was a single Mum) I literally had no idea what to do and everything seemed so strange and I felt very unco-ordinated. I did have some help whilst I was in hospital but as soon as I got home I felt all alone. I had one visit from the nurse but that was it, I struggled so much and I totally dreaded every feed and would end up in tears. I decided that I would try and express and bottle feed her EBM. This only lasted a few days as my milk was slowly drying up and it got to the stage where I could only express around 10ml. I asked my Mum to go and buy some formula as I felt I had no more milk to give my baby and she was ready for a feed. I felt an absolute failure for having to do this, not from pressure from myself but from everyone else around me (except my Mum, who was very supportive). I felt like I had let society down, now I realise that society had let me down but not providing me with the support that I so desperately needed. Having said this though I wouldn't have changed it for the world, my baby was happy and therefore I was happy. And now I have a wonderful, intelligent and healthy 7 year old.

The second time around I was determined to make another go at it but with a totally different attitude. I was going to inform myself as much as possible about breastfeeding, mainly positioning and attachment. I joined the ABA and went to one of their seminars whilst pregnant, I searched the internet and read about it on forums such as these. When my second daughter was born in February this year I couldn't have been more knowledgable, so I was more than ready. I also had the attitude that if things didn't work out again that it was ok and she would still thrive no matter what. It was really hard in the beginning, sore cracked nipples (to the stage where my toes would curl every time she attached) and often what seemed like constant feeding. I made use of all of the resources that were available to me, the ABA councellor, the local breastfeeding clinic and the internet.The first 6 weeks were extremely hard but we got through them and now at almost 6 months on I am so glad that I persisted. I have now returned to work part-time and still express and go to the childcare centre in my lunch break so that I can still breastfeed. I enjoy breastfeeding so much but at the same time I can understand why some women dislike it.

I am not trying to put anyone down by telling my story, just trying to make the point that whatever works for you is the best for you and your baby. It all comes down to tolerance and understanding, we are all women that are doing our best and should not and do not need to be judged for this, mothering is hard enough without passing judgement on one another.

Sorry it was so long.

Take care

Jackie :smiliedance:

Funkychicken

03-08-2006, 15:51

Milliner

03-08-2006, 17:24

bambikins

03-08-2006, 20:59

On a lighter note, back in the 70's when I was born, "Formula" was not heard of, or at least that's what mum told me. When her milk supply stopped at roughly 1 month the hospital told mum to buy tinned evaporated milk (carnation brand). I started to thrive on the stuff.......it worked for us. A spanish lady that my mum was working with, fed her baby mashed up sardines in ordinary cow milk (her english was very poor and the hospital where she had the baby back then did not have the resources to educate women on the feeding of a baby). When she went back to the hospital for baby check ups etc they were all mortified to see what she was feeding her baby, but after the doctor did the baby's check up he was amazed at how healthy the baby was.

Anyway sorry for getting waaaay off track, but what it boils down to is yet again "choice".............Mum and Baby both need to be happy and content. And educating women on both ff and bf is very important. I just booked into my first bf class today.......if it works for me, great! but if it doesn't then I will go with the formula (and give the evaporated milk and sardines a miss lol)

3boyzmum

03-08-2006, 21:53

Honestly - I never contacted the ABA when having difficulties.........why? Cause i'd known ABA "counsellors" through my work and they were not very compromising types of people IMO and I knew I didn't want to encounter anyone like that at such a "fragile" emotionally time for me + several family members and friends have had bad experiences with the ABA people........bought to tears and hassled etc and my sister actually said "whatever you do - if you are having problems DON'T ring the ABA!!" And she successfully b/f twins and 2 others.......she was committed 100% but was still bought to tears by insensitive, bombastic "counsellors" when she had a few problems............:mad:

As I said earlier in this thread, I didn't have a positive encounter with the ABA. The member who I spoke to didn't care that my collostrum(sp?) didn't come through, she didn't care that my milk never came through, she didn't care that I had been hooked up to two expressing machines at the same time for nearly four hours straight with nothing to show for it, nor did she care that my doctor discovered that I have deformed milk ducts (which my mother also suffers from she just didn't tell me because she knew how much I wanted to bf) all this woman seemed to care about was brow beating into doing something that is physically IMPOSSIBLE for me to do. I am so envious of women who were and are able to bf, you have no idea how envious. I'm sorry I know this is off topic but I really feel as if I should defend myself for ff my boys.

meme

03-08-2006, 22:21

I mean-those adopting would have to FF

totally off topic but just wanted to let you know that adoptive mums can and have successfully breastfed.:D

great story from one in the latest ABA mag, Essence....:thumbsup:

i'm sad to hear how many people have had bad experiences with the ABA, i have just found them so great, full of information supportive and not judgemental.

3boyzmum, you do not have to defend your actions, as it is obvious you were acting in the best interests of your boys, was the counsellor you spoke to aware that you had a medical problem with your ducts that made breastfeeding impossible?

what i thinkis great is that even among mums who have been unable to breastfeed for whatever reason, there is a lot of support for breastfeeding and many comments about having another go with subsequent babies. it is obvious that the messages about the importance of human milk is out there, it is just not the *best* thing for every family as we all have different circumstances and situations that come into play and influence how our babies are fed.

back on topic...

I think that if someone did see formula advertised I doubt that would influence a woman who was currently successfully breast feeding her baby to think "Wow, that never occured to me! Perhaps I'll start feeding my bub on formula!"

formula advertising is around, toddler formulas are advertising everywhere and giving out free samples, a new company has ads in many parenting mags that describe common infant behavious as problems that their formula's can fix. these ads may not influence a mother who is successfully breastfeeding if she is confident and has good support and advice, but as one mother here posted,

at such a "fragile" emotionally time for me
many new mums feel overwhelmed and emotionally vulnerable and when faced with a crying baby it's easy to doubt yourself and formula ads can offer a glossy *happilly ever after* alternative.

formula has a role in society , but i disagree with the way it is marketed.
for the record i'd be happy to see junk food ads restricted aswell....

mmm7

04-08-2006, 13:10

I've been reading this with some interest.
Initially when I heard the news article I was a bit P***ed off as I am one of the mums that had attachment issues and couldn't bf.
We have a friend who couldn't bf either. She was in a private hospital and was given an electric breastpump and had to sit there with an attachment on both breasts for about an hour. When the midwives came back and saw there was about 20mls of milk and they had a distraught first time mother on their hands they just told her off and said she wasn't trying hard enough. She got herself discharged and has succesfully ff'd her baby.

With my second bub I will try even harder to bf with DH's full support. I don't care about the stats I know breast is best but in the end, I will do what I have to do to have a healthy baby.:D

Ana Gram

04-08-2006, 15:33

i'm sad to hear how many people have had bad experiences with the ABA, i have just found them so great, full of information supportive and not judgemental.

With so many of us with very negative experiences with the ABA, this should be a red flag to the ABA to look at what they are currently doing and perhaps improve their services.

Generally with any type of recomendation, if you know someone who has nothing nice to say about the service and/or treatment they received, you are less likely to use that service. If the ABA improved their practices and everyone who dealt with them had glowing recomendations about them, I think it would improve their chances at getting women to breastfeed more often and longer.

Goosie22

04-08-2006, 16:02

I think it would improve their chances at getting women to breastfeed more often and longer.

Did you let the particular ABA group know of your disappointment.

I have heard nothing but good things about the ABA, apart from what a few people have posted here. I think if your looking for an organisation that views Formula is a positive light then probably ABA is not for you, but if you realise and value the importance of human milk but through poor information/support have not been able to sustain it or establish then I think they offer a wonderful support network for women.

Ana Gram

04-08-2006, 16:51

Did you let the particular ABA group know of your disappointment.

I have heard nothing but good things about the ABA, apart from what a few people have posted here. I think if your looking for an organisation that views Formula is a positive light then probably ABA is not for you, but if you realise and value the importance of human milk but through poor information/support have not been able to sustain it or establish then I think they offer a wonderful support network for women.

yes I certainly did. I am not usually the type of person to let that type of very poor service go unnoticed.

Just because you have only had good experiences with this organisation adn only heard of good experiences does not mean that the bad ones are few and not worth looking into.

As i have said several times, i went to the ABA for help to continue breastfeeding and was met with rude and highly unprofessional people who neither cared or want to listen to what i had to say about my situation. You previously said that the ABA is very supportive of WHATEVER choice a woman makes to feed her baby. I and many other women have not found this to be true. There is a massive difference in being supportive and viewing formula in a positive light.

i was looking for help with breastfeedign when I turned to them, not looking for someone to say ' just formula feed". And for the record i do recognise and value the importance of human milk, unfortunately the "wonderful" ABA was absolutely disgusting in their treatment of me.

Due to my experiences i would never recomend the ABA to anyone without giving them dire warnings on their mean approach and their tactless attitudes.

bigglet

04-08-2006, 16:54

Chelle- I suffered from severe eczema on my breasts while breastfeeding. It was red, hot, weepy and itchy - the LC at the breastfeeding clinics were really nice about it and even helped to refer me to a dermatologist. Since I was breastfeeding I knew that there were a lot of drugs that I couldn't take which was very annoying but in the end I went to my local doctor and he prescribed me some cortisone and said it was probably better for me to "hit the nail and get rid of the eczema" first and foremost - the breastmilk shouldn't be too much of a worry (only if I was on it for weeks).

After MONTHS of suffering (and trying everything from herbal extracts, calendulis, tea tree oil - everything "natural") I ended up using cortisone and it cleared up within a few days.

I didn't go through the ABA - I went through the breastfeeding clinic at the Mercy Hospital and everytime I went it was free (bulk billed). Are they different to the ABA?