Animals in captivity

[BigRedV]

I was shocked when I heard on the tv this morning, they were still talking about what to do with the whale that "drowned" its trainer. Thankfully, they are not talking about killing the whale anymore.

The poor whale shouldn't have been in captivity anyway IMO :no:

It annoys me when someone is killed by an animal, especially in the wild and they try and hunt the animal down and kill it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/26/2830692.htm?section=justin

[sockstealingpoltergeist]

I agree so wrong. Animals arn't meant to be performers.

It makes feel awful when I hear of such things. It's why I would never again go to a circus with animals in it.:no:

[bellarosey]

This would also apply to a zoo I am led to believe. Do you enjoy going to the zoo as I certainly do. Some animals are better left out in the wild but that will never happen.

[CookiesRYum]

I think it's sad that the lady died, but it just reinforces that some if not all wild animals should not be kept in captifity.

Whales travel the worlds oceans and cover massive distances in their lifetime - they have had this poor whale confined for almost 30 years in a space relatively as big (or small) as a bath tub

Poor whale wouldn't even be able to survive if realised... I did read talk of them relocating it to a control part of the ocean..

I respect that to an extend some animals will be kept captivity for breeding and research etc; but having them locked up for pure entertainment at these seaworlds etc is sickening...

[SassyMummy]

I don't go to circuses with animals - everyone thinks I'm a mean mother for depriving DD of such things, but what's good about performing animals? What kind of life must they lead?

I feel the same about the killer whale incident. I think it's horrible that they've got a killer whale in such a small environment. It's not that much bigger (though it is a lot deeper) than your average swimming pool.

It's not a domesticated animal that is used to a restricted life (like cats or dogs), but instead a wild animal that has gotten sold so a bunch of people can cheer and laugh at it, and SeaWorld can make a LOT of money.

It's cruel. It's wrong. I'm sure the trainer cared a lot about the whale, but the fact is, it's a wild animal. It SHOULD be in the wild.

This is nothing new either. It's attacked before. So have other performing wild animals.

This really shouldn't have come to a shock to anyone.

[Looshkin]

I hate, and wont go to zoos either for this reason, it makes me terribly sad to see all of those animals that should be in the wild in a little cage. Aquariums I feel less bad about when it is small fish in very large tanks, I do feel horrible about seals/birds/dolphins/whales/sharks that should have the entire ocean as their home not a stingy pool.

I was just watching a docco on tigers on discovery, on how critically endangered they are that they think they will be extinct in a few years and that there are only 5 - 7 thousand left in the wild in the entire world. Made me want to :crying:
:(

[FiveInTheBed]

Orcas (which are more closely realted to dolphins than whales) are highly intelligent!
so are many many wild animals that are kept in captivity.

whilst I do enjoy the looks on my kids faces at a zoo -it can be very obvious that alot of the animals held there are suffering depression when kept in enclosures too small, or not stimulating enough. Some animals though are only just hanging on to the brink of extinction thanks to mankind - in both negative and positive ways...man almost wiped them out and now are rehabilitating, growing their number s and releasing them into the wild.
If the keepers use their opportunity to educate rather than entertain I don't mind the odd animal kept [humanely] in captivity.

We have a pet Maquarie river turtle - he is in a reasonable sized tank - nothing compared to what he would swim in if in the wild - but he is loved - cared for and used to educate my kids on the beauty of nature and to understand how the balance should work.

I much prefer to see footage of them in their natural habitat.

[RoarsomeMum]

I respect that to an extend some animals will be kept captivity for breeding and research etc; but having them locked up for pure entertainment at these seaworlds etc is sickening...

I agree in a way.. it IS sickening (as far as these animals should be out in their OWN environment preforming the same "tricks" for their natural purpose, to defend from enemy or attract mate, or seek food..)

but As you said, Some WILL be kept in captivity.. places like seaworld and the Zoo and the "entertainment" via animal places, add $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to the funds that help to keep the animals well cared for, safe, as close to their own "natural habitats" as humanly possible, and also fund many being released back into the wild (when it is safe and appropriate.)

I am not sure the ends justify the means.. but I am no expert in the field either.

[SassyMummy]

I'm not against zoos if the animals have a reasonable amount of space to move. I think zoos can do a lot for endangered species and educating people about various animals.

Their lives aren't the same as they would be if they were in the wild, and I can see both negatives and positives in that. However, they're not performing. They're not forced to do things that are not natural to them.

[Ana Gram]

Orcas should not be expected to do tricks for humans. No animal should.

I am in two minds about zoos. In the ideal world, they wouldn't exist. But we don't live in an ideal world. All zoos could do better with the welfare of the animals that live there. Zoos should have more of a conservation focus.

The sad thing is, it isn't as simple as releasing animals back to the wild as they would not be safe. The animals already in the wild are not safe.

[Fuchsia!]

I hate it too :(

The only time i will agree to it is if the animals are injured and there is no way they could survive in the wild.

[RoarsomeMum]

Orcas should not be expected to do tricks for humans. No animal should.


IMO, They are not expected to do tricks for Humans, they are expected to do tricks for Food, as they are expected to do in the wild. - they are maintaining a sense of purpose, as in "I do A and it = B."

The "tricks" may amuse and entertain humans, and that is indeed what the trainers are aiming for in a sense, but the animals care not that Humans are present.. take away food reward and suddenly, no "tricks" they are indeed not preforming for humans, just performing in FRONT of Humans.

I can not afford to see them do those "tricks" in the wild.. and though, I would not ask for them to be contained for my and my child's enjoyment or education, I am grateful they are.. (and FAR more aware of their existence and threats and where we can donate to help, than I could ever have been without the "human entertainment centers")

[FiveInTheBed]

IMO, They are not expected to do tricks for Humans, they are expected to do tricks for Food, as they are expected to do in the wild. - they are maintaining a sense of purpose, as in "I do A and it = B."

The "tricks" may amuse and entertain humans, and that is indeed what the trainers are aiming for in a sense, but the animals care not that Humans are present.. take away food reward and suddenly, no "tricks" they are indeed not preforming for humans, just performing in FRONT of Humans.

I can not afford to see them do those "tricks" in the wild.. and though, I would not ask for them to be contained for my and my child's enjoyment or education, I am grateful they are.. (and FAR more aware of their existence and threats and where we can donate to help, than I could ever have been without the "human entertainment centers")


Orcas don't jump out of the water and do backflips for tiny little fish in the wild - they can be known to hunt in packs - and bash a whale by repeatedly ramming it - and working in organised groups, until it dies from internal bleeding and then they consume it - very similar to a pack of lions.

It is definitely ALL for the entertainment of humans by humans!

[RoarsomeMum]

Orcas don't jump out of the water and do backflips for tiny little fish in the wild - they can be known to hunt in packs - and bash a whale by repeatedly ramming it - and working in organised groups, until it dies from internal bleeding and then they consume it - very similar to a pack of lions.

It is definitely ALL for the entertainment of humans by humans!

Aren't the backflips the equivalent to a peacock showing it's feathers? (a love mating thing?) - Should have said, food, love, lust, natural behaviors, not soley food..

Like I said, I am NOT an expert, but thought all of the "behaviours" as in "tricks" were natural things you may see that animal do in the wild..

It is NOT the wild, I know some of their experiences (well, most of them) are simulated.. but I thought simulated with their natural behaviors in mind.. (and that made it slightly less abhorrent in my mind)

And if I am Wrong (which I very well may be! I am not denying that) I apologise to the animals and to the world as a whole.. I may enjoy the Zoo and the wildlife parks less that I did before I became more informed.. I may feel guilt instead of joy when I see my child's face light up at seeing a tiger! something she may never see in the wild EVER!) Do I not go to those places? who already HAVE animals out of the wild raised in captivity with no viable chance of surviving in the wild? What happens then? - with no finance to support containment.. What is the right thing to do?:(:confused:

I Like the Zoo.. Horrible or not, I Enjoy the ability to see creatures I could never see without the Zoo available. I don't WANT to feel guilty for that.. (but I don't want to be ignorant and unaware either)

[bellarosey]

Orcas don't jump out of the water and do backflips for tiny little fish in the wild - they can be known to hunt in packs - and bash a whale by repeatedly ramming it - and working in organised groups, until it dies from internal bleeding and then they consume it - very similar to a pack of lions.

:iagree: with that statement. I was watching a doco not too long ago and saw just that happen.

[StrawberryTheMilkshake]

Im not sure on the whole thing..... i just dont know.......

Im not an expert.......

all i know is that i am sorry a trainer, who probably loved and respected the animals has been killed.

I dont know...... i love animals.... love them. Its why i pay to go whale watching every year..... would rather just see them in their natural habitat.....

Free Willy changed my life...... (sorry to sound dumb but it did).

[BigRedV]

all i know is that i am sorry a trainer, who probably loved and respected the animals has been killed.


I feel sad for her, but I feel so sad for the animal that is not living in its natural habitat.

[FiveInTheBed]

:As kids, we've all been to some sort of marine park and wowed at the "Shamus" doing their backflips and the dolphins shaking hands with their trainers.

But most of us had no idea what these marine parks have been hiding from the public for the sake of "entertainment"....

In the wild, killer whales (orca) can live up to 80 years (females) and 60 years (males). In captivity, most killer whales barely survive 20 years.

The dorsal fins of killer whales in captivity eventually collapse--caused by a number of items: (1) reduced activity, (2) overheating of the collagen (that strengthens the fin) by greater exposure of the fin to the ambient air, (3) changes in the whale's diet from being in captivity.

Despite being called "Killer" whales, these whales do not attack humans. They hunt other large whales, sea lions and other kinds of large fish. The reason they have attacked humans (their trainers) at marine parks is probably due to the large amount of stress from being held captive in a small enclosed area for long hours. They are unable to use their sonars, and oftentimes their own echos are deafening enough to cause permanent damage to their ears.

Killer whales and dolphins are pod (family)-oriented creatures, and the whales and dolphins you see at marine parks have been separated from their natural pod groups.

Dolphins are highly intelligent creatures; Hardy Jones, a wildlife and conservation filmmaker, documents in his 2005 film "The Dolphin Defender", a 25-year study in dolphin behavior and battle with dolphin hunters. In the documentary, Jones engages in various activities in an attempt to communicate with the dolphins. And while he was not able to successfully engage in conversation or understand them, we can easily see from his film that dolphins are extremely curious and social.

Roarsome - I love 'some' zoos too - I adore the look on my kids faces when they get to hold a koala or see Tapirs mating noisily!!

I guess it is hard to draw a balance - and weigh up what should be kept, and where and when.
Our kids most certainly are going to have less of a range of species to witness in the wild when they are our age.

I am dying to get up to Australia Zoo in QLD with my three - :yes: ..yep they make Crocodiles jump out of the water - but that IS resembling what they do in the wild they are ambush predators.
It saddens me that they are kept in a 'pool' ...but it is better than being shot for being a 'nuisance'.

[Ana Gram]

As FiveintheBed has said, the tricks performed by orcas are not what they do in the wild. They are taught these tricks with the use of food for the entertainment of humans.

This particular orca is kept in a separate tank which is completely unnatural for orcas. Imagine having almost no contact with your own species other than to mate. Orcas are very social creatures, just like us.

And this particular orca has been involved in the deaths o fat least two other humans.

[MummaBear03]

I'm in 2 minds about animals in captivity in general.

I refuse to go to a circus, and as Sassy said, I'm also viewed as the "nasty mother" for depriving my child of her basic human right to witness, enjoy and even fund animal cruelty in that setting, but luckily I have a child who would rather see them shut down than see the circus itself. I also don't like places like Seaworld and so on.

However, up this way we have Reef HQ and Billabong Sanctuary.

At Reef HQ they have aquatic animals in captivity, even a crocodile now. They aren't getting the animals to perform in any way, they are feeding them ample and they are housing them in quite large tanks.

They have a turtle hospital which relies largely on donations and money raised from visitors to the Aquarium. The turtles are treated, rehabilitated and released back into the wild.

They find their way to the turtle hospital when people find them sick or injured.

The public awareness that's offered is second to none. They do holiday programs aimed at children and also adults to educate people on simple things like don't throw away plastic bags, they end up in our water systems and turtles think they're jellyfish, a staple diet of the turtles, and consume them which then makes them sick, blocks up their system, and causes them to float which in turn prohibits them from being able to dive for their food and eventually they starve.

They also do massive amounts of research into how best to preserve their natural habitats in the Great Barrier Reef, meaning more animals are more likely to survive in the wild. This needs funding. The funding comes in a variety of ways, but much of it comes through Reef HQ members and visitors.

DD will be having her birthday there this year and in lieu of presents, she'll be setting up donation boxes to help with the turtle hospital, coral bleaching research, and preservaiton of the GBR. These are tax deductable for donations over $2. Even at the age of 6, she has not only taken in all the information she can from the talks, but she's become pro-active in this area.

We'd all love nothing more than to see the animals returned to their natural environments, however some of them are at the Marine Park as they were just too sick or injured ever to be released back into the wild, and also they serve the purpose of public education and awareness, without which we'd see more circumstances of animal abuse, and a lack of understanding about how our actions can harm these animals we claim to love and respect.

Billabong Sanctuary is very much the same. They rely on the support and funding from visitors and members in order to keep it running and also to run educational programs and fund the rehabilitation of animals that are injured so they can be returned to the wild if possible.

The crocodiles at the park are those same ones being a nuisance, the ones that cause terror in the river systems around this area, the ones many people say "Kill it!" about. They are now part of breeding programs, they do shows but they only do the very things they would do when hunting in the wild, they have large enclosures, and they are being used to educate the public, on top of that many of them were doomed to become bags, belts and boots if not sent there. It's a very natural environment where the animals are treated with respect at all times and not expected to perform for people.

So that's why I'm in 2 minds about it. It very much depends on why they're in captivity, the other options for them, how they are being treated, the environment in which they're being kept, and other factors as well.

I have only been to one zoo once, the Melbourne Zoo and I was quite disappointed in their enclosures. I've been told the Taronga Zoo is also disappointing, but there's one in South Australia worth visiting that has a focus on conservation and education, and have all nature-identical enclosures.

[~Candy~]

A great big booooo to animal circus's :thumbsdown:
They are nothing but cruel.

Come zoo's, well I haven't been to many (Aust zoo and seaworld) and I'm quite happy with how these animals are being cared for, however I don't think the animal should be blamed at all if it attacks. It's purely natural, we humans are the ones invading their lives, so we get what is next to nature from the 'wild' animal.

[Bellini]

I'm not against zoos if the animals have a reasonable amount of space to move. I think zoos can do a lot for endangered species and educating people about various animals.

Their lives aren't the same as they would be if they were in the wild, and I can see both negatives and positives in that. However, they're not performing. They're not forced to do things that are not natural to them.

:iagree:

I'm against animals being kept in captivity with minimal space to move simply for the pleasure of human's, however when it comes to conserving certain species, zoo's can be a really good thing. The species are able to breed and repopulate at a quicker rate than they would in the wild, where they are at the mercy of poachers etc.

I really don't agree with keeping whales/dolphins etc in small tanks for entertainment purposes. I went to a show at Sea World when I was younger, and they had dolphins dancing on their tales and doing continuous flips. It was sad, and so very cruel:( PETA has written a very informative article called "Marine Animal Exhibits: Chlorinated Prisons", which might be a very insightful read for anyone who suggests otherwise.

And they are made to learn tricks for entertainment purposes, see the paragraph below which is taken from the above article.



Newly captured dolphins and orcas are forced to learn tricks. Former trainers say that withholding food and isolating animals who refuse to perform are two common training methods. According to Ric O’Barry, “positive reward” training is a euphemism for “food deprivation.”

[MummaBear03]

:iagree:

I'm against animals being kept in captivity with minimal space to move simply for the pleasure of human's, however when it comes to conserving certain species, zoo's can be a really good thing. The species are able to breed and repopulate at a quicker rate than they would in the wild, where they are at the mercy of poachers etc.

I really don't agree with keeping whales/dolphins etc in small tanks for entertainment purposes. I went to a show at Sea World when I was younger, and they had dolphins dancing on their tales and doing continuous flips. It was sad, and so very cruel:( PETA has written a very informative article called "Marine Animal Exhibits: Chlorinated Prisons", which might be a very insightful read for anyone who suggests otherwise.

And they are made to learn tricks for entertainment purposes, see the paragraph below which is taken from the above article.

Well said, which is why I said it depends on why they're in captivity and what type of conditions they are in. Or something like that. Post was probably too long for anyone to read :laughing: I tend to get passionate about certain topics. Glad someone else could say it much better :D